Editor’s note: Johnnie Moore is the author of Dirty God (#DirtyGod). He is a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University. Keep track of him @johnnieM .
By Johnnie Moore, Special to CNN
(CNN) - Jesus was a lot more like you than you think, and a lot less clean cut than this iconic image of him that floats around culture.
You know the image. It’s the one where Jesus is walking like he’s floating in robes of pristine white followed by birds singing some holy little ditty. He’s polished, manicured, and clearly – God.
But despite the Christian belief that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, Jesus was a rather dirty God.
He was the “earthly” son of a carpenter, and life in the first-century was both more lurid and unfinished than our collective religious memory seems to recall.
To that end, I suggested recently to several astounded colleagues of mine that Jesus actually had to go to the bathroom, perhaps even on the side of the road between Capernaum and Jerusalem.
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What tipped them over the edge was when I insinuated that Jesus, like almost every other human being living in the rural world in that time, might have even had dysentery on an occasion or two.
Someone said, “You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?”
“Yep,” I replied, “That’s exactly what I mean.”
It seems like an obvious statement if you believe that Jesus was “fully God” and “fully man” (as most evangelicals believe and call the Incarnation), but to some of us it seems in the least, inappropriate, and at the most, sacrilege, to imagine Jesus in this way. We might believe that God was also man, but we picture him with an ever-present halo over his head.
But, actually, the Jesus of the Bible was more human than most people are conditioned to think.
I call this the dirty side of Jesus. He was grittier, and a lot more like us than maybe we believe, and that’s one of the reasons why so many thousands of people followed him so quickly.
They could relate to him.
He was the teacher from a small town who knew and understood the economic insecurity that was common in the first century. Times must have been rather tough for Jesus at points in his life, for he even spoke of being homeless, having to sleep on the ground with no roof over his head.
He also knew what it was like to have his message rejected and how it felt to be misunderstood. Jesus was regarded with such little significance in his hometown that one of his critics once remarked sardonically, “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son?” Jesus eventually had to move to different city (Capernaum) because his teachings so infuriated the people living in his hometown that they drove him out of Nazareth and even tried to throw him off a cliff.
'Jesus Wife' fragment gets more testing, delays article
The real Jesus had dirt underneath his fingernails and calluses on his hands. He probably smelled badly from sweating profusely in the Judean sun on his long hikes to Jerusalem, and Jesus was, without a doubt, rumored to be a hypocrite or absolutely mad for all the time he spent with prostitutes and those afflicted with leprosy.
Not exactly have a clean-cut image.
He had a rather shady reputation.
Some people thought he was a revolutionary. The religious leaders called him a heretic, and others even accused him of being a drunkard and a glutton - in no small part because of the vagabond group of disciples he had with him. No serious religious leader of his day would have ever recruited such people.
For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the “Sons of Thunder” (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.
Jesus was sarcastic, too.
He often snapped back at the Pharisees with a tone fit for late-night television, and in a terribly embarrassing moment for all those around him, Jesus even called these respected religious teachers “snakes” that were probably sons of “Satan.”
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That’s not exactly the behavior of a sweet, self-help teacher with a halo over his head.
It’s the behavior of a frustrated man who might also be divine, but sure knows how it feels for annoying people to get under his skin.
Christians believe that Jesus chose to be born fully human, too, but why?
Lots of theologians have laid out opinions over the centuries, and in their opining they have tried once again to hijack Jesus’ humanity by defining it in philosophical terms. I believe it’s simpler than the philosophy and church councils and centuries of argument.
The brilliance of Christianity is the image of a God, named Jesus, arrived with dirty hands.
Jesus came in a time period when Greco-Roman gods were housed in gigantic temples and portrayed with superhuman powers and with superhuman physiques. Gods were believed to be far away from people on their mountains or hemmed up in their sanctuaries.
Jesus arrived in defiance of this prevailing imagery.
Jesus didn’t come flinging lightning bolts from a mountaintop, or playing politics in Rome. He came to live in a typical Middle Eastern village called Nazareth that was home to a couple hundred typical people. He didn’t decide to brandish his power, but to spend most of his time with the powerless and disenfranchised. And when he started a religious movement that reshaped history, he did it in the most profound and anticlimatic way:
He let himself be killed, and then he busted open a tomb.
In Jesus we meet a Savior who understood the desire to sleep just a few more hours, and who had to control his temper sometimes. In Jesus we find a God we can relate to because he chose to relate to us.
He was the God who became dirty so that the world’s souls might be made clean.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Johnnie Moore.
Jesus is the True Son of God. Not a myth, He lives.
I'm sorry, "jimdevo", but "True Son of God", "God" and "He" are all elements of mythology, therefore you assertion is unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
He has a small apartment in Brooklyn...does not give out the address..He would be flooded with visitors....
what investigation have you done that has led you to the conclusion that Jesus is "mythology"
sorry, jimbo.....he died. he is still dead. there is a great deal of mythology regarding him. that remains. he was a troublemaker who got whacked by the romans. hardly the first, nor the last
This Chad is really an idiot. Looks like he's asking this Hal about something Hal didn't even bring up.
Jesus did not exist but is a creation of Flavius Josephus. In case you're just joining the game, the bible is complete fiction.
@End Religion "Jesus did not exist but is a creation of Flavius Josephus. In case you're just joining the game, the bible is complete fiction."
so, also an invention of Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Peter, James, John, Jude, Barnabas (if he was the author of Hebrews), Cornelius Tacitus, Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, Pliny the Younger, Emperor Trajan, Emporer Hadrian and the Jews who wrote the talumud.
I guess the obvious question is: when did they get together and decide to make this up?
What you consider evidence I do not:
the question wasnt what is or what isnt, the question was what investigation have you done that has led you to the conclusion that Jesus is "mythology"
I can agree that Jesus had body odor, but not sin. He was sinless. Having dirt under ones nails does not infer sin. However, sarcasm is not walking in love and the Christ did walk in love.
Frustration is a lack of patience and patience is a fruit of the Spirit, of which He walked in the full power of the Spirit.
Saying Jesus started a religious movement is falling short of the glory of God. He came to...show the Father, pay the sin debt, and make a way for us. A religious movement is nothing more than what the Jews were under. They call it the Law.
Mr. Moore: Jesus was not frustrated. He was not sarcastic and He didn't have any sickness in His body....dysentery. He was physically perfect and spiritually perfect in every way...no sin...no sickness.
You are a professor of religion at Liberty University. It shows. You are teaching religion. Religion will take you to hell, but salvation is knowing God personally.
I'm sorry, "Francisco", but "God", "He", "the Father", "the Spirit", and "Christ" are all elements of mythology. Therefore all of your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
Very, very well stated Francisco. I was about to respond to this post until I read what you wrote. I'm sure there will be counter opinions posted, but that will be there short falling. Great response.
In response to Hal9001, I see post like yours all the time from people and non belivers, which is ok my friend, but you have no human ability whatsoever to prove or disprove mythology and realisim, none. So, as a Christian here is my point. If what Christianity says, and that is the only way to Heaven is through the Son, Jesus Christ, and when you die it turns out to be 'real', then you loose for eternity. If it turns out to be not true, then you win on your mythology belief and we all just float around as particles. So, my question or point is, why in the world would you take a chance with your eternal soul when it costs you absolutely nothing? The price it cost has already been paid, so the chance is completely free, but, if it's true and you don't accept Christ, then it costs you everything....it costs you eternity of your soul suffering.. Myth or real? It's your choice, but don't state mythology based on the little human mind of understanding when you should use your heart to understand.
I can agree that Jesus had body odor, but not sin. He was sinless.
What evidence do you have of that? Something written in a book that features talking snakes doesn't count by the way.
@Jason Young Guy
You seem to be basing your choice in believing the Christian narrative on... *What if..?* Or... *Believe, just in case*... Or... *I'm hedging my bets*
In other words, **Pascal's Wager** , which is what you are as serting here, is not necessarily the most right or useful way for some people to base their decisions on whether or not they **believe**
francisco: you know god personally? what does he sound like? does he have a high voice or a low voice? what does his crib look like?
The Physics of being a Spirit is interesting. You can walk through walls unhindered, but your feet "rest" on the floor. Hmmmmmm.
Hmm and our most advanced mathematical theories the Rubber band and string theories point to many more dimensions all around us...Who is to say what might be done in those dimensions....After all we are made of very small atoms...with a relatively large area of empty space around each atom.....so why can we not walk through a wall>?....Our atoms would probably have plenty of room to past by the atoms in the wall....Why can we add some liquids together that have a smaller total volume then the two liquids to separately....It is because the atoms blend together and mix.....require less space together..
So Dreamer, Jesus engaged in phase shifting like on Star Trek?
I don't expect Jesus to look like most of the paintings you see. I agree with the writer. He will look like a typical middle eastern man I expect. Now when I see Him He will be clothed in splendor and His place will be at the right hand of God. But when He walked the earth I'n sure He looked much like a poor, homeless man might look today. But He spoke with power and authority which separated Him fom that homeless person you might think of today. I will see for myself either when He comes for me or when He returns in glory and power.
How do you not know if God is that homeless man...who acts a little crazy....It could be a test, to see how your treat him....or God could be watching just to see how you treat one of his creations....
I'm sorry, "Noahsark", but "God", "He" and "Him" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
"He will be clothed in splendor " ? Oh, you mean like the Poop ? Hey, that's a tough act to follow !
"He will look like a typical middle eastern man I expect.... ...But when He walked the earth I'n sure He looked much like a poor, homeless man might look today. But He spoke with power and authority which separated Him fom that homeless person you might think of today."
You just described Osama Bin Laden.
Why does your god feel the need to test his creations? Would you test a child by putting a loaded gun on the table, saying "Don't touch!" and walking out of the room?
Is your god so insecure that he needs humans to constantly prove their love and devotion? He sounds exactly like an abusive husband, rather than an omnipotent god.
I believe that infact Jesus was quite an ordinary man, the point the author makes in this article makes clear sense in that people want to follow someone that is, per say, tangible. The phrase "see it to believe it" comes to mind. He wanted to show the people that God is loving and understands the toils of man, as opposed to the Roman gods of the time who stuck fear into the hearts of Romans prompting them to make offerings and sacrifices. The portrayal of the common man was necessary to change the beliefs of the people at the time.
The problem with basing a religion around such a man is that he is basing his belief in god on a preconceived notion that the god of the israelites was real, which study proves he was not. The Old Testament god is a mishmash of many gods and many kings, so finding any sort of philosophical truth in their worship is ultimately fruitless.
To the athiest: I do know some athiest, and they are very good people with morals and values. We Christians believe because we have hope of an everlasting life through our faith in Christ and belief in the bible. That said, I do agree that you should be met with love and respect from people of faith. However, if you spew hate of Christ and Christianity, for example, we Christians recognize you for the enemy of our souls. As some posters on this board have said – why are you here? If you are here because you are searching for something else, or just curious, then fine. I do hope that you gain insight and find the hope you seek for eternity.
We cannot hate what does not exist. The main point is to keeo your religion to yourself and out of government and the laws.
@JWT "We cannot hate what does not exist."
=>what investigation have you done that has led you to the conclusion that Jesus did not exist?
Trying reading some of the posts from "Christians" like "pervert alert" and then get back to us on why we're here. Daddy said Christians love people one day and hate them the next. So true. All just for some fairy tales.
what investigation have you done that lead you to the conclusion that Christianity is a "fairy tale"?
This is a "belief blog", an opinion piece. Articles rotate through all the time. What makes you think it's only for Christians? There are some areas where you Christians can't bully everyone around and this blog is one of them.
You may have a god chad – I have no idea about that. But I do not thus the general concept of a god that applies to all people is obviously a myth.
Right you are, Chad. There are no faeries in bible. Talking serpents, talking donkeys, giants, demons, supernatural messengers, virgins giving birth, the dead coming back to life etc. No faeries, though.
@JWT "You may have a god chad – I have no idea about that. But I do not thus the general concept of a god that applies to all people is obviously a myth."
=>1. If the God of Israel is real, then clearly He "applies to all people" in that His reality would be independent of an indiduals acceptance of that as fact.
2. what investigation have you done into the God of Israel that has led you to the belief that He is not real?
I don't need to investigate a dog-turd to know it's si!t from a dog.
Since you presume that your god is god o all that is an obvious fallacy. I have no god chad thus there cannot be a god of all. Obvious. Besides the bible is full of stories with points and not factual depictions of history.
You are welcome to your god, I sleep well knowing he is all yours.
I have seen your "logic" on a couple occasions,
1. There are no gods
2. Christians believe in the God of Israel
3. Therefor Christianity is falise
all of that is predicated on the truth of #1. What investigation did you do to come to that conclusion?
if the answer is none
then, are you comfortable holding on to a viewpoint that is baseless?
Christians can believe in whatever they want. That is their business. But if they conclude that their god has anything to do with me then their conclusions are false.
I have no more need to investigate christianity than I do any other equal religion, nor do I need to investigate whether or not dog turds taste good.
As I say you can believe I have no quarrel with that as long as you keep it out of the government and the law and every day society.
then, are you comfortable holding on to a viewpoint that is baseless?
My viewpoint is firmly grounded in reality Chad.
How could you know if it was or wasnt since you havent developed it based on any investigation?
your viewpoint is a baseless assumption, it might be right, or it might be wrong, but you cant argue that it is baseless.
Always a good laugh for me as we move into year 2000 plus trying to make something otherworldly out of this guy.
If you believe in god and hell then there is no question god sends people to hell if they don't play his game properly. He supposedly set the game in motion and forces one to choose.
Just like Jigsaw from the movie Saw, god supposedly puts a game in motion, forcing people to choose his way or torture. While the poor cattle in the movie indeed get to "exercise free will" they've still been bound into a game against their choice, then forced to play by its rules.
And you call this god a loving god... lol.. He's a horror movie monster.
Your logic is fatally flawed as it is not based on the Judeo/Christian belief (see Genesis)
your post is a straw man: an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position
Chad don't expect a 20year old kid sitting in his mother's basement glued to his computer to know anything about logical fallacies.
thank you but you're taking time away from your worship of Jigsaw. More important than that you could be watching Three Amigos again.
Chris, have you heard? The bible is a complete fraud and jesus never existed?
There is very little distinction between cult and religion. Generally, a cult worships a person as a god, whereas a religion worships a supernatural god. However it is then argued from one belief to another why one's brand of belief is not a cult. As it is used today, generally, 'cult' is used to disparage while 'religion' is applied out of consideration. But it is all the same fraud.
Why would you believe something so wrong without exploring its veracity? See for yourself.
First, God gives us free will to choose how we live. There is no game. You play by your own rules or you CHOOSE to follow His ways as best you can realizing we are all sinners. Christian and non Christian alike.
Secondly, the way to salvation is not by playing by a set of rules. Again it is free choice to believe through faith that Jesus came, born the son of a virgin, walked the earth proclaiming the word of God, was crucified, died, but arose from the dead and through His sacrifice our sin is forgiven. That's the only way to heaven. However, if you have a spiritual awakening and are born again you will desire to live to honor Him.
I know agnostics and atheists live honorable lives and truly care about people. But that's just not enough without trusting in Jesus for your salvation.
Exactly right!!! The "god gas us free will" argument is a joke. Free will is just the obvious option of doing 1 thing or the other. You have to choose something! Its part of the laws of physics (matter can't stay at rest). On Jesus, he existed but the game of telephone has been so exaggerated throughout the centuries its mind-boogling.
Religion was made for stupid peasants as a life/law/guide. Early intelligent people knew the power of being able to have a certain amount of control over the common people. They did so quite successfully.
Most things about religion are laughable when thought about logically. LOGIC WILL SET YOU FREE. Logic = Using your brain to make sense of things. The "smart" brain not the how long does it take to go 80 miles at 80MPH brain.
@End Religion "have you heard? The bible is a complete fraud and jesus never existed?"
=>what investigation have you done that has led you to that conclusion, or is it a case of "you just know it"?
noahsark, did you not comprehend what I wrote? You just reiterated what I wrote but you chalked it up to free will. Your description is also known as "coercion." It isn't free will when the choices are:
1) my way
2) eternal torture
Huh... I guess robbing people isn't a crime then because, you know, even though the person is threatening you, you still chose to give up your possessions of your own free will. Awesome!
Chad, you know by now that the bible is fraud and jesus did not exist until proof is given. No such proof exists.
When preparing to post all your circular, unsubstantiated and debunked "proof" that you would typically paste at this point, just know that I may not make it back again to say, "that's not evidence". There was not a single reliable and/or non-debunked witness. Even the church admits parts of the bible are forgeries whose authors we don't know. The bible is anything but evidence; nice poetry, perhaps, but not evidence of anything.
Biblical scholars admit Flavius Josephus simply made stuff up. You can't trust a word of what the guy wrote, and there's even some confusion over if it was even he who wrote the books attributed to him. It's all just a tangled web of nonsense. The bible is a known fraud. Jesus did not exist.
so, your logic is:
1. dont bother investigating anything
2. 2000 years later, you just "know" they made it up
3. this "knowledge" is based on nothing other than your baseless confidence that they made it up
is that about right?
and, if you would please provide your evidence for your following statements (and please bear in mind "you just know it's true" is entirely insufficient).
-Claims made by @End Religion
1. Biblical scholars admit Flavius Josephus simply made stuff up.
2. The bible is a known fraud
3. Jesus did not exist.
Until I see your extraordinary, tested and peer-reviewed proof of God, proof of every absurd assertion in the bible and proof of Jesus, it is entirely a fraud.
The abrahmic god does not exist. That, plus zero independent proof for jeebus means his "son" never existed either. The christian church itself admits the bible is a fraud. Just yesterday anglicans allowed gay priests to become bishops when Leviticus 20:13 (the supposed word of an inerant god) clearly advocates killing gays.
The church is nothing but a pathetic, incongruous shell game that exists now only to sustain the power of its top echelon and to keep bringing the tithes in.
I see you have made more claims, but the question was If you would please provide your evidence for your following statements (and please bear in mind "you just know it's true" is entirely insufficient).
-Claims made by @End Religion
1. Biblical scholars admit Flavius Josephus simply made stuff up.
2. The bible is a known fraud
3. Jesus did not exist.
4. Until you prove that Jesus exists, He doesnt (that is equally as fallacious a statement as "until you prove Jesus doesnt exist, He does)
5. The abrahmic god does not exist.
@End Religion "The christian church itself admits the bible is a fraud. Just yesterday anglicans allowed gay priests to become bishops when Leviticus 20:13 (the supposed word of an inerant god) clearly advocates killing gays."
@Chad "that is one single church, not "the christian church"
I would agree with you that the anglican church does not believe the entire bible is true.
Hey "End Religion" check your facts. In case you're not familiar with scientific method, there's no way to "factually" prove a negative. Dare you to try. Where's your proof Jesus is a myth?
I don't need to prove the negative. Jesus did not exist until I see proof that he did. There is no such proof. The bible is a known fraud. Josephus is a known fraud who made up Jesus stories.
learn more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
So Wikipedia's your proof? Yup, that's science. When you said "factual", i thought you had empirical evidence. The fact is, neither you nor I have that. Your psychosis is as deep as mine. I call mine faith, you call yours Wikipedia.
I've never understood this "you can't prove a negative" stuff. How about this: the sky is not red. (Checks outside). Yep.
There is no wolf on my lawn (checks the lawn). No wolf.
There is no wolf on the sun. (checks the... oh wait. now I get your trick).
What do you want, 3 links? 12? You want me to scan the library and post every book here? There is a ton of substantiated, corroborated and footnoted evidence at that one link. It isn't my fault if you don't want to take it upon yourself to then go to a library and research the actual books to satisfy your own needs. I gave you fish; I can teach you to fish; I am not going to fish for you forever. Go to the link and read the evidence, follow the other links there, write down the books footnoted, go to a library and read the evidence for yourself.
@End Religion: exactly! you can lead a horse to water, but he's still a freakin' horse.
You guys are hilarious and just made my point. Obviously neither of you are scientists or work in a scientic discipline or youd know that the inability to conclusively prove a negative is generally accepted in the scientific community. Its a big universe (aka "yard") that you don't see the wolf in. Not a fair analogy Tee Hee. You can prove the absence of the wolf in your finite space of a yard, but using your logic, because there are no wolves to be seen there, wolves don't exist. Here's the simple fact. Neither of us can empirically prove what we're saying. But there are lots of things we can't yet prove, just like we couldn't prove the earth was round a few thousand years ago. The proof was there, we just didnt have the means to find that proof. Accept that your "theories" have just as much merit as the belief of a god. Both are theories by the strict definition. By the way, I CAN make the horse drink. A cup of salt in his oats does the trick nicely. :-)
Actually, I am a scientist. "You can't prove a negative" is just something people say on comment boards.
Quoting eekmeister: Its a big universe (aka "yard") that you don't see the wolf in. end quote
Wow, you just repeated my point and imagined that it was your point. Amazing.
Quoting eekmeister Not a fair analogy Tee Hee. end quote
It's a great analogy. It's a big universe that you don't see the god in. Can't be checked. By saying that, I was illustrating why "you can't prove a negative" is not a compelling argument *for* something. You see, unverifiable claims are very easy to make.
Thanks for playing!
Wow, hee hee. You win. I'll be busy throwing away my years of experience using the scientific method to put food on my table, so I won't have much more time to banter with a witless worm. Absence of proof isn't proof of absence. Time to read your 2nd grade science book again, cuz you obviously didnt read (or couldnt comprehend) the college texts. Thanks for playing (let's face it, that's really all you did... play).
@Eekmeister: "banter with a witless worm"? You're trying so hard, but you can't quite do it, can you? It must be frustrating.
But you're right. Time to go!
Out of Liberty University comes the revelation, "Jesus took a dump." Instead of believing the unbelievable stories of miracles, did anyone ever wonder why Jesus didn't do something useful like enlighten people about the benefits of cleanliness? Jesus was most likely a Paranoid Schizophrenic whose reputation grew after his death taking on magical qualities as his legend grew. Sure, he took a dump and probably through it at monkeys.
It's interesting, that those who are obviously not interested in Jesus, and "matter of factly" deny his existence or divinity, read and respond to articles like this. Seems to me there's interest in who Jesus really is. He loves you and desires a relationship with. Perhaps, that's why you read this article. You should know his love for you.
I'm sorry, "Chris", but "He" and "divinity" are elements of mythology. Furthermore, "Chris", if "Jesus" existed, he is now dead, therefore he cannot "love" anyone. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
Yes. I agree.
He was more like us in other ways, too...
Namely, that he wasn't the son of any god, and after he died, he stayed dead.
Of course if you walk into Liberty University unshaven and dirty you will get kicked out.
Now, that is funny. You're probably right.
It's just amazing to me that people still believe these fairy tales in the 21st century. I feel like a traveler from the Reason galaxy marooned on planet Retard.
Now go back to your Star Trek reruns.
Dick do not worry....Your future generations will evolve in to super intelligent beings that can control time and travel between dimensions and be called Gods by the stupid life forms they find on distant planets...
Jesus was as divine as gonorrhea. You'll be praying to a god if you get it.
Bob, chill out please. You give us atheists a bad name. Please don't try to force our beliefs on people who believe in a deity.
I'm just trying to "save" them.
I like Bob. He's only teasing.
He's also the only one who noticed how dirty the author is.
Jesus was a homeless schizophrenic. Guess we have lots more prophets in our time them. Go follow what they say.
Like cries of Feed Me, Cloth Me, Help Me Live Another Day....
Regardless if whether you believe Jesus was the son of God or not, why would such a good person, philosopher and minister being out so much hate in you.
Good person? What exactly did he do that was good? Keep in mind that "his words" were written down centuries after his death and were most likely not his words at all.
You obviously have neither given the words of Jesus a careful read nor have you listened to anyone who is truly psychotic.
I don't think you've read "his" words all that well.
"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)
@ Don Camp
You obviously think that anyone who disagrees with you has never read the bible. On the contrary, many of us have read it extensively, and found the many contradictions and lack of evidence for the stories in it, along with the portrait of a violent, petulant, abusive god wanting.
God doesn't exist for the same reason that the monsters under your bed don't exist. Grow up people.
So you are saying that as children almost all humans experience a time in their life when they believe in things that are just pure imagination....or the abilities of our children to see what adults can no longer see...is slowly driven out of our kids by the parents and schools and the society the children grow up in....
No, I'm saying that being "spiritual" is being irrational and immature. This world doesn't need gods to function nor has there ever been any evidence that any gods exist, only the ramblings of crazy people.
And this coming from a non God believer that is a young little liberal atheist skinny pencil necked puke that thinks he is a somebody until someone kicks her balls in...say this into my face boy!
ignorance is bliss...just like christianity is a myth
I'm sorry, "ug", but "God" is an element of mythology, therefore, using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), your post is "PATHETIC".
@ug: very christian of you, internet warrior and caveman
Oh, how very Christian of you.
Verily I say into your big, dumb face that you have completed the utter destruction of your brain. You have no more use except as an adhesive. To the rendering vats with you!
I'm an old, happily married, securely employed, heavyset atheist, and I think that you shouldn't threaten strangers.
Oh yes, and I can tell you're not getting any at home.
I was taught that the ministry of Jesus last 3 years. From 30 to 33 years of age when he died. If he hadn't experience human bodily functions prior to 30 he would have defiantly been singled out a 'special' long before the age of 30. Wouldn't his ministry n have happened long before?
Not much is written about Jesus under the age of 30...did he travel to India and learn about Hinduism and Buddhism....Why is there almost nothing written about Jesus as a child and teenager...Well there are books...but they were thrown out, not considered accurate...
before 30 jeebus was smoking pot, following bands around the middle east and getting laid. You know, normal stuff.
"...he would have defiantly been singled out..."
defiantly...? (the adverbial form of 'defiant'...?)
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