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My Take: Jesus was a dirty, dirty God
January 5th, 2013
10:00 PM ET

My Take: Jesus was a dirty, dirty God

Editor’s note: Johnnie Moore is the author of Dirty God (#DirtyGod). He is a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University. Keep track of him @johnnieM .

By Johnnie Moore, Special to CNN

(CNN) - Jesus was a lot more like you than you think, and a lot less clean cut than this iconic image of him that floats around culture.

You know the image. It’s the one where Jesus is walking like he’s floating in robes of pristine white followed by birds singing some holy little ditty. He’s polished, manicured, and clearly – God.

But despite the Christian belief that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, Jesus was a rather dirty God.

He was the “earthly” son of a carpenter, and life in the first-century was both more lurid and unfinished than our collective religious memory seems to recall.

To that end, I suggested recently to several astounded colleagues of mine that Jesus actually had to go to the bathroom, perhaps even on the side of the road between Capernaum and Jerusalem.

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What tipped them over the edge was when I insinuated that Jesus, like almost every other human being living in the rural world in that time, might have even had dysentery on an occasion or two.

Someone said, “You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?”

“Yep,” I replied, “That’s exactly what I mean.”

It seems like an obvious statement if you believe that Jesus was “fully God” and “fully man” (as most evangelicals believe and call the Incarnation), but to some of us it seems in the least, inappropriate, and at the most, sacrilege, to imagine Jesus in this way. We might believe that God was also man, but we picture him with an ever-present halo over his head.

But, actually, the Jesus of the Bible was more human than most people are conditioned to think.

I call this the dirty side of Jesus. He was grittier, and a lot more like us than maybe we believe, and that’s one of the reasons why so many thousands of people followed him so quickly.

They could relate to him.

He was the teacher from a small town who knew and understood the economic insecurity that was common in the first century. Times must have been rather tough for Jesus at points in his life, for he even spoke of being homeless, having to sleep on the ground with no roof over his head.

He also knew what it was like to have his message rejected and how it felt to be misunderstood. Jesus was regarded with such little significance in his hometown that one of his critics once remarked sardonically, “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son?” Jesus eventually had to move to different city (Capernaum) because his teachings so infuriated the people living in his hometown that they drove him out of Nazareth and even tried to throw him off a cliff.

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The real Jesus had dirt underneath his fingernails and calluses on his hands. He probably smelled badly from sweating profusely in the Judean sun on his long hikes to Jerusalem, and Jesus was, without a doubt, rumored to be a hypocrite or absolutely mad for all the time he spent with prostitutes and those afflicted with leprosy.

Not exactly have a clean-cut image.

He had a rather shady reputation.

Some people thought he was a revolutionary. The religious leaders called him a heretic, and others even accused him of being a drunkard and a glutton - in no small part because of the vagabond group of disciples he had with him. No serious religious leader of his day would have ever recruited such people.

For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the “Sons of Thunder” (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.

Jesus was sarcastic, too.

He often snapped back at the Pharisees with a tone fit for late-night television, and in a terribly embarrassing moment for all those around him, Jesus even called these respected religious teachers “snakes” that were probably sons of “Satan.”

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That’s not exactly the behavior of a sweet, self-help teacher with a halo over his head.

It’s the behavior of a frustrated man who might also be divine, but sure knows how it feels for annoying people to get under his skin.

Christians believe that Jesus chose to be born fully human, too, but why?

Lots of theologians have laid out opinions over the centuries, and in their opining they have tried once again to hijack Jesus’ humanity by defining it in philosophical terms. I believe it’s simpler than the philosophy and church councils and centuries of argument.

The brilliance of Christianity is the image of a God, named Jesus, arrived with dirty hands.

Jesus came in a time period when Greco-Roman gods were housed in gigantic temples and portrayed with superhuman powers and with superhuman physiques. Gods were believed to be far away from people on their mountains or hemmed up in their sanctuaries.

Jesus arrived in defiance of this prevailing imagery.

Jesus didn’t come flinging lightning bolts from a mountaintop, or playing politics in Rome. He came to live in a typical Middle Eastern village called Nazareth that was home to a couple hundred typical people. He didn’t decide to brandish his power, but to spend most of his time with the powerless and disenfranchised. And when he started a religious movement that reshaped history, he did it in the most profound and anticlimatic way:

He let himself be killed, and then he busted open a tomb.

In Jesus we meet a Savior who understood the desire to sleep just a few more hours, and who had to control his temper sometimes. In Jesus we find a God we can relate to because he chose to relate to us.

He was the God who became dirty so that the world’s souls might be made clean.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Johnnie Moore.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Jesus

soundoff (7,741 Responses)
  1. Elizabeth Farag

    I wonder why the author did not write about his own body functions? Why he did not provide us with a photo of him usung toilet or told us how badly his dirty socks stink?! We all sweat, get dirty and go to bathroom. So did Jezus when he walked this earth. But we simply dont like to talk and hear about this. If we respect our own privacy, lets respect His. And lets remember what He said, that nothing coming from the outside makes a person dirty, only what is coming from his mouth can make him dirty!

    January 6, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
    • Answer

      "My god can say nothing wrong."

      LOL

      January 6, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      I thought that the author of this article explained his reasons quite well.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
    • Marcus

      Well said Elizabeth! TY

      January 6, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
  2. Imagine No Religion

    Surely if god could bypass the biological and physical necessities to im pre gnate jesus' mother, he could also create jesus without the physiology of him having to uri na te, def aec ate, flat u late, sweat, or exhibit any other bodily function which humans find disgusting. Hey, if xians are going to perpetuate a ridiculous myth, why not go whole hog?

    -–
    "There ain't no jesus gonna come from the sky.
    Now that I found out, I know I can cry." – John Lennon

    January 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • SciGuy

      The gospel is no myth. Your fate depends on your response to it. As did John Lennon's.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • OOO

      SciGuy,
      Do you also believe that Hurricane Katrina victoms were punished because New Orleans had gay people?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • SciGuy

      ooo, i believe that pain and suffering are the result of the presence of sin in this world. I am not privy to God's specific purposes with regard to every tragedy that occurs. Nor of his view of the degree of sinfulness which exists in New Orleans vs Chicago or New York or Keyser, WV. I do know that he hasplainly told us that the wages of sin is death, and that it is appointed unto man once to die and afterwards to face judgement.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • dreamer96

      Was it Lennon that said the Beatles were more popular then Jesus?...Which ever one of the Beatles it was..Many Christians burned their albums for that comment...

      January 6, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • OOO

      @SciGuy,
      You can't have your cake and eat it too. You insinuate that John Lennon got his brains blown out because of his response to the Gospels. Then you backpeddle and say you don't know what gods purpose is.

      Come on man!

      January 6, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Answer

      @OOO

      Expecting them to do anything different from what they always do?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • SciGuy

      ooo, i insinuated no such thing. I referenced Lennon because of Imagine's reference to him. I would never pretend to know God's specific purpose in permitting such atrocities as were perpetrated against John Lennon.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • OOO

      @SciGuy,

      You said–> "The gospel is no myth. Your fate depends on your response to it. As did John Lennon's."

      This a a DIRECT quote from you.

      January 6, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
    • End Religion

      Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes, or he doesn’t care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

      January 6, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • ME II

      @SciGuy,
      "i believe that pain and suffering are the result of the presence of sin in this "
      Just curious, but how do you reconcile this with science. (I'm assuming that "SciGuy" indicates some acceptence of science.)

      January 6, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • SciGuy

      ooo, by fate i was referring to one's ultimate fate, i.e. at the judgment day. All of us will die one way or another, and that is a part of our fate, so I see why you misunderstood me. But I meant our fate beyond our earthly death.

      January 6, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
    • SciGuy

      ME, what reconciliation do you seek? I love true science. It is the search for knowledge and understanding of how things work. God has given us a beautiful and marvellous creation, and gifted us with rational minds capable of learning and deducing much about his creation. I participate in it, marvel at it, and delight in God's revelation, both general and special.

      January 6, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
  3. John P. Tarver

    Is this Liberty University hinting that Jesus might be a bit dirty, as opposed to saying black?

    January 6, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
  4. Big Man

    You mean jesus did not sport light auburn hair and blue eyes? Our strong, clean, handsome Euro-looking Jesus image is likely taken from that of the Germanic god Balder. Amazes me why people continue to follow a faith that has no cultural/ethnic let alone geographic connection with their heritage. Trying to fit a roughly cut square peg into a nicely bored round hole – hardly feels natural.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Sir Quenn Fonchey

      So I should ignore Martin Luther King's teachings if I'm not black? Genius.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
  5. g.deLeon

    To Answer ,January 6, 2013 at 4:53 pm |: If you think faith and beliefs are such a joke, then go ahead and laugh. However, there is no need for cynicism or negativity. This is america...to each his own belief, even yours. Be nice-–if you know how to be so.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • Answer

      I choose to belittle you.

      You see those words?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:27 pm |
    • Jesus Christ

      I'm not son of god. I'm human being like you. I helped old lady cross road, fed people, gave them inspiration, and tell night time story to children. Then sudden people called me god and it caught Pontius Pilate's attention then arrested me and died on cross. Those people drive me to death.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
  6. John P. Tarver

    This may as well be an article about plumbing in Jerusalem 2000 years ago.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • Big Man

      And the folks in the region whinged about Roman occupation – would have been a cleaner place if they allowed the Romans to their thing there.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      The Jews loved the Roman roads and other infrastructure, but they did not want to pay for them.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
  7. Gerry Daley

    I stopped reading the second I saw this guy was from Liberty University....which is pretty much to higher education what Waffle House is to fine dining.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • OOO

      lololol
      good one!

      January 6, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • hal 9001

      A Windows 2000 machine from there once tried to argue with me. I fried its processor like it was cheap cache.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
  8. sick of christian phonies

    Most of the faithful have severe dysentery of the brain. That is why they believe such stupid stuff.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      Many are blind sheep, following a Judas goat, to the silence of the lambs

      January 6, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
  9. CANUCK2013`

    And you teach religious studies? What's dirty about being human and doing normal human things? It sounds like prehaps you've lived your life in a fundamentalist bubble and normal human functions seem dirty. Get a grip, dude.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
  10. Marcus

    Moby, He did reference the flood. The deluge is refrenced throughout ancient writings and probably resulted in the retreating of the last glaciation.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      That's what I said. Jesus had the opportunity to clear up that bit of confusion but instead was ignorant or chose to lie about it. Either way, not god.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • UncleBenny

      No, ancient writings describe devastating LOCAL floods that probably seemed worldwide to the people of thiose regions. There is much evidence in the geological record of large scale LOCAL flooding in many regions. Of a worldwide flood, not.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
    • Marcus

      You are condeming him for what he did not say? Sounds fair?!?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
    • Marcus

      Jesus referenced a bronze age scirpture while teaching. He did not elaborate on it or break down the extent of it to an illiterate audience. Therefore, he looses all merit?? You guys are tough. When he comes back maybe, he'll teach in modern terms and settings.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
  11. doky999

    If you guys haven't realized yet, EVERY religion preaches the same message. Love & God. Forget the details and look at the big picture.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Several forms of Buddhism and Taoism have no gods.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • OOO

      Please describe the "bigger picture" for us all.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • Phil

      Islam is devoid of love. According to the Qu'ran, Allah hates mankind.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
  12. OOO

    "But, actually, the Jesus of the Bible was more human than most people are conditioned to think."
    Problem is that religion is a labotomy and thinking is out of the question.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • Imminent

      Speaking of lobotomy...how did yours go? *awkward silence*

      January 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • OOO

      A random statement like that deserves silence...

      January 6, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • nelsonleonard

      To each his own. I'll make you a deal. I will not try to convince you there is a God if you stop inferring that I am stupid for believing there is one.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • OOO

      No deal. I'm still waiting for someone to convince me.
      BTW, I'm not saying you are stupid, I'm saying religion has taught you not to think.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Jeff

      I go to church weekly and able to think on my own. If you have a problem with any religion, then don't read any article about religion on any website.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • OOO

      Jeff,
      I would bet, depending on what church you frequent, that you don't think for yourself regarding the existance of supernatural beings and the miricles they have performed.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
  13. KC

    To all atheists and believers– You atheists don't know for sure whether god doesn't exist any more than
    the believers know he does. See?

    January 6, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • OOO

      Us athiests aslo don't know for sure that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. However that does put the probability of god on par with the probability of a tooth fairy.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Blah

      Actually I hope he does exist, because he is numero uno on my sh1t list. He is going to catch a serious beating if I ever see him for being such a lousy supreme being. If I go to he11 then I will gladly join the forces of darkness to end gods rein of tyranny

      January 6, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • Answer

      You're offended in that we, atheists, reject your god along with all the other gods.

      So it's really like – you want us to retract our evidence based conclusions to come and accept your delusions. We'll mock you instead! Too bad so sad. No dice.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • dreamer96

      You hit on a basic argument in philosophy...Is it better to believe in a God or not....the safe bet is it is better to believe, just in case there is a God....You're covered...and if there is not a God...What does it matter...The big problem is Which God is Real?..and can you live under the requirements of that religion....and of Course it there is a God, he will know you better then you know yourself and can tell if you really believe in him/her...or just hedging your bet...So it also comes down to being your true self....because God knows who you really are anyway...and then the question is What is ones true self?...Can a person really know their true self anyway?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • SixDegrees

      No, I don't see. Reason and logic – both, incidentally, honed to a fine point by the church for use in just such matters – demand positive proof of existence, and recognize demands for negative proof as logical fallacies. It wouldn't hurt you to study up on these centuries-old results.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • Imminent

      Atheism also doesn't exist. It's a man made concept as well. Thus, atheism is part of a delusion. Therefore, while these equally artificial self proclaimed people pretend to have an opinion, it's an imaginary opinion on something they claim is also imaginary. In short, most everyone are all nuts.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • KC

      Kids–I stand by my original statement–neither side knows for sure!
      Folks on oth sides of this issue can get annoyed and start raving about their own beliefs–but bottom line–neither side knows for sure.
      Too bad if this makes you angry–it's just the truth.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Answer

      @Imminent

      Hilarious.

      Start off with the basics why don't you..

      First there is the theist. Then the "a" was placed in front to denote the reference of "without". Understand the principle?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • JWT

      @KC

      I know for sure I have no gods and that is what matters.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Cyle in Dublin

      "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

      ...Stephen F Roberts

      the current estimate, over 3,500 gods, demons, monsters, and other magical beings have been worshipped by humans. all any rational person can ask is some proof that any one of the exists. when you think you have that proof, the James Randi Foundation has a free $1 Million for you.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
    • Imminent

      @Answer

      Your posts suffer from impulsive emotion. You comment on something you don't believe. If you don't believe, why continue other than to incite emotional responses from others? You haven't offered an evidence to support your opinions. Should every intelligent person here assume you (and others like you) are simply here to troll? You're unarmed my little unicorn.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • Answer

      @Imm

      Yep. That little unicorn you voiced is the same with your belief. It's so nice that your kind will use the unicorn. It's charming.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Cyle in Dublin

      @ Imminent – the onus of proof is on the person who brings the positive claim. you claim a deity exists. ok... prove it.

      example: if i claimed to have a rainbow colored dragon that excreted icecream tacos, it would be MY job to prove it to you. you don't have a responsibility to prove it doesn't exist.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:38 pm |
    • SciGuy

      blah, you vastly misunderstand the nature of the Lord God Almighty, else you would not make such foolish statements. I would suggest that you read the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, if you are bold enough, and then revisit this topic.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • Answer

      @SciGuy

      Hilarious!

      "Read the dogma some more and then come back to talk about the dogma." That's so religious.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:45 pm |
    • OOO

      @SciGuy,
      You realize that reading the bible is exactly what has created many athiests, right?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • oleander

      The 'sides' may not know, but I do. No traumatic brain injuries. No near death experiences. No bs, no blind faith. I dont have schizophrenia and I dont hear voices or see things. I was saved from a demon by an angel. Ive told non believers my story and the best they can come up with is that im lying or im crazy. Fine. Think what you want. I know what happened to me with the same conviction I have in knowing what time it is right now. For those of you who ever have the misfortune to face the otherworldly terror that I had to, simply ask HIM for help. You will get it. by the by, ive never seen a movie or horror story that could compare. There are things out there darker and larger than any of you could ever imagine.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • SciGuy

      ooo, I realize that the Bible is God's self-authenticating word given to us for our understanding and good. Given to us that we might know the truth, be corrected when wrong, for instruction in righteousness, and that we might be made complete. I recognize that some who read it repudiate and reject. I know that many read it and are saved from their sin as a result. In any case one is foolish not to read a book which purports to be from God and has had such life-changing power over people throughout millenia.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
    • OOO

      @SciGuy,
      I'm telling you I read it. I am now an atheist. Now what?

      January 6, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • SciGuy

      ooo, I'd recommend you now study it in depth. Dig into it objectively, not with your preconceived notions, but with an enquiring mind. I dare you to do so.

      January 6, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • Cyle in Dublin

      LOL – read deeply into the tale of Harry Potter to find the truth of all things I DARE YOU!!! woooOOOooooo

      The Bible is just another collection of myth and fairy storeis. None of the stories are even particularly original. Most of them are badly edited and plagarized tales of all the other religions that crossed over the Mesopotamian region over the last 8,000 years.

      January 6, 2013 at 10:12 pm |
  14. Daniel

    I agree with the author. What he's trying to point out is that most Christians think Jesus did not suffer any of the things we suffer nowadays. Jesus had to pass through bad situations just as we do, so that we can not say that it is impossible to be Perfect as He was. If He did it, We can to. And to the Atheists:
    You guys only know how to criticize Christian or religious faith, you guys only waste your time pointing out the faults that are in the Bible or religion, and say "why didn't God save the kids from the Connecticut massacre?" or "Why is there so much injustice in the world?" or "Why is there famine all over the world?" But You are the last to help people, and you are not perfect and good to everyone. You guys don't have a purpose in life. According to you, We are her by mistake.
    If you don't believe in God, you don't gain anything. If you believe in God and follow his commandments, you'll be rewarded.
    It's up to you to believe this, But know that You'll remember this on the Day of Judgement.
    Jesus is the son of God, and he came to save humanity from Hell, you Must follow God's Commandments if you don't wanna fo to Hell.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Daniel

      You Said: " I agree with the author. What he's trying to point out is that most Christians think Jesus did not suffer any of the things we suffer nowadays. Jesus had to pass through bad situations just as we do, so that we can not say that it is impossible to be Perfect as He was. If He did it, We can to. "

      O.K... I can understand where you are coming from on this.

      You Said: "And to the Atheists:
      You guys only know how to criticize Christian or religious faith, you guys only waste your time pointing out the faults that are in the Bible or religion, and say "why didn't God save the kids from the Connecticut massacre?" or "Why is there so much injustice in the world?" or "Why is there famine all over the world?"

      Sometimes those are reasonable questions.

      You Said: " But You are the last to help people, "

      That is definitely an over-generalization. I know many atheists that give of their time, money, love, etc... out of their good-heartedness and willingness to make a difference.

      You Said: " and you are not perfect and good to everyone. "

      Don't know 'anyone' that is good to 'everyone' let alone perfect.

      You Said: " You guys don't have a purpose in life. "

      Gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of atheists.

      You Said: " If you don't believe in God, you don't gain anything. If you believe in God and follow his commandments, you'll be rewarded.
      It's up to you to believe this, But know that You'll remember this on the Day of Judgement.
      Jesus is the son of God, and he came to save humanity from Hell, you Must follow God's Commandments if you don't wanna fo{sic} to Hell. "

      What's up with all of the *believe or else(burn)* as sertions I've been seeing recently. *Pascal's Wager* doesn't work (typically) as a reason to 'have to' believe for the atheists and agnostics, or other non-Christian religions for that matter.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      January 6, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • UncleBenny

      Pascal's Wager is a total crock. You think God is going to be impressed with someone who believes in him because it's a safe bet?

      And if you REALLY want to be safe, you'd better believe in all the gods. Every one of them. Because who knows which one is the right one? What if you bet on the Christian God and he turns out to be the wrong one? What then? Burn, baby, burn.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Answer

      On another note.. if you have to believe in all the other gods: you will have to adopt all the other traditions that they practice.

      So please gather up all the materialistic items and burn/sacrifice and or be wasting in their name. Thank you.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
  15. CosmoJ

    A 1st century wanderer in the middle east was dirty? How insightful..

    January 6, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
  16. Blah

    gods plan involves little kids suffering and dying

    January 6, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
    • hee hee

      I agree with your observation, but I always found the "problem of evil" pretty silly. It's a bit like asking: if pixies like to help out around the house, why isn't my laundry done?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • Imminent

      No, people like you two involves making children and everyone else suffer. You people like little to no personal accountability. But before anyone can even believe anything you two posers offer up here or anywhere, it's blatantly obvious you have an opinion on a subject you know absolutely nothing about.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • Don Camp

      I think if you think about it, that is man's plan. The condition of the world at present is not God's plan. It is the consequence of ignoring God's plan. Don't blame God.

      Jesus provides the opportunity to return to the original plan. So, if you don't like the way things are at present, do something about it. Choose life, rather than curing the darkness.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Answer

      "you have an opinion on a subject you know absolutely nothing about."

      LOL

      The religious t-w-a-t-s don't like it. Hilarious.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • Blah

      We dont know what we are talking about, really!? Ha! If god controls everything, then therefor he allows little kids to suffer and die, if not then he is not all powerful or he is and chooses not to do anything about it. Either way, fail!

      January 6, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • hee hee

      @Imminent: What makes you think I make children suffer? Evidence please. I suppose it must make you feel better, to imagine that. Why do I have to be accountable to an imaginary being to be good? Seriously, would you harm children if there were no god? If so, where do you get off thinking that you're more moral than me?

      By the way, the evidence suggests that non-believers commit less crime than believers (but you have to factor out education and income, because those correlate positively with non-belief, and both of those variables correlate negatively with crime). Look it up if you don't believe me.

      January 6, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
    • hee hee

      To clarify: non-believers commit appear to commit less crime, but that is skewed, because they are more educated and have higher incomes on average. Apparently the correlation remains after you factor those things out.

      January 6, 2013 at 10:25 pm |
  17. hee hee

    I think the author REALLY likes dirt. Non-platonically. Please comment if you noticed it too!

    January 6, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • Bet

      I have to admit that my first reaction to it was to wonder how much time this guy spends alone in his room, "talking" to his dirty, dirty Jesus.

      January 6, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • hee hee

      @Bet: Yay! Someone else noticed!

      January 6, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
  18. Scholar

    Liberty University – sort of says it all – hardly a notable academic place and mediocre even for Christian universities.

    January 6, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Tom

      Nothing like some academic snobbery, eh?

      January 6, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Cyle in Dublin

      any "university" that teaches 1600 year old mythology as reality should have its federal funding pulled.

      talking snakes, 6 mile deep global floods, geostationary stars, and dead guys walking about, are all fine if you are teaching a course in fantasy literature or comparative mythology. but these mental incompetants are serious.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
  19. ted

    Just a quick thought.
    If Jessus had been seen with a halo and walking on air. Would you not have expected that the whole world would have been flocking to see him? And that everyone would have been christian?

    January 6, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Answer

      -quote–
      Karen Lee

      "If not enough people doubt you, you're not making a difference" – guess that explains why so many people doubt Jesus. – PJ

      –end quote–

      They have pretty little verses like the one above that convinces the tools that this is why their religion will be the truth. They give themselves the invented reasons why they will not be accepted.

      It's the very nature of saying "you won't be accepted so you know that we are right."

      January 6, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • oleander

      Its easier to trick someone in to thinking you levitate and have a halo around you than to do some of the things he did. He arrived and healed the blind, suffering, and even one man who had been dead a week. He was reported to have walked on water and raised himself from the dead. But you think for some reason walking in the air with a halo around you would have had more effect than raising the dead. hmm.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Real Deal

      oleander,
      " He arrived and healed the blind, suffering, and even one man who had been dead a week. He was reported to have walked on water and raised himself from the dead."

      The problem is there is not one single shred of verified evidence that any of those things really happened - ever.

      January 6, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
  20. Blah

    So god only spoke to a select group of individuals in the Middle east between 5000 B.C.E to 33 C.E and that is it, not the rest of humanity spread across the globe? Right.....

    January 6, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
    • Blah

      A brilliant argument! Thanks me.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • dreamer96

      Many people claim God talks to people today too...Many are locked away from the rest of society though....hmmm

      And everyone of the GOP candidates running for the oval office said or implied God told them to run for the oval office...

      January 6, 2013 at 5:27 pm |
    • Big Man

      Must be the sun-fried brains that allowed for such hallucinations in the region.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Imminent

      That's incorrect. And, your other personality is equally incorrect. Conventional and common liturgical leaders also teach that concept incorrectly.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • Don Camp

      I doubt that is the way it was. There were many who heard God. But God chose to enlarge the message and make it more specific through a family (Abraham's) then through the prophets who left clues to the person of the Messiah. Finally, God spoke through his Son. And you are the recipient of that message.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • oleander

      no. in society today: 'I talk to god' = ok. 'god talks back' = not ok. Even if someone was actually carrying on a convo with god every day, they wouldnt necessarily reveal that fact. Besides, all throughout our written history god and 'gods' are reported to speak to people from every country. Sure a lot of that is either delusion or attention horing (left out the w on purpose) but you can not prove that some of it wasnt. Thing is, you really dont know. How about you speak to your own experiences instead of postulating about someone elses. You assume that everyone was lying. But you just dont know.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Answer

      "Finally, God spoke through his Son."

      I love the excuses that religious people give out. In talking about the all encompassing world wide flood... god has the ability to manifest so much water. And yet they give the other excuse that their god needed a "son" of himself to do the other bit.

      January 6, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • Don Camp

      @Answer. I don't personally think that we need to understand the flood as "world wide." But regarding the second, God did not need to manifest himself to us through his Son. In fact, he showed himself in many different ways. But he did choose to do so.

      So the question is why?

      Perhaps because he wanted to express his love for you by taking your sin upon himself, dying in your place, and rising from the dead to demonstrate that it was He who did this.

      January 6, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.