Editor’s note: Johnnie Moore is the author of Dirty God (#DirtyGod). He is a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University. Keep track of him @johnnieM .
By Johnnie Moore, Special to CNN
(CNN) - Jesus was a lot more like you than you think, and a lot less clean cut than this iconic image of him that floats around culture.
You know the image. It’s the one where Jesus is walking like he’s floating in robes of pristine white followed by birds singing some holy little ditty. He’s polished, manicured, and clearly – God.
But despite the Christian belief that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, Jesus was a rather dirty God.
He was the “earthly” son of a carpenter, and life in the first-century was both more lurid and unfinished than our collective religious memory seems to recall.
To that end, I suggested recently to several astounded colleagues of mine that Jesus actually had to go to the bathroom, perhaps even on the side of the road between Capernaum and Jerusalem.
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What tipped them over the edge was when I insinuated that Jesus, like almost every other human being living in the rural world in that time, might have even had dysentery on an occasion or two.
Someone said, “You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?”
“Yep,” I replied, “That’s exactly what I mean.”
It seems like an obvious statement if you believe that Jesus was “fully God” and “fully man” (as most evangelicals believe and call the Incarnation), but to some of us it seems in the least, inappropriate, and at the most, sacrilege, to imagine Jesus in this way. We might believe that God was also man, but we picture him with an ever-present halo over his head.
But, actually, the Jesus of the Bible was more human than most people are conditioned to think.
I call this the dirty side of Jesus. He was grittier, and a lot more like us than maybe we believe, and that’s one of the reasons why so many thousands of people followed him so quickly.
They could relate to him.
He was the teacher from a small town who knew and understood the economic insecurity that was common in the first century. Times must have been rather tough for Jesus at points in his life, for he even spoke of being homeless, having to sleep on the ground with no roof over his head.
He also knew what it was like to have his message rejected and how it felt to be misunderstood. Jesus was regarded with such little significance in his hometown that one of his critics once remarked sardonically, “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son?” Jesus eventually had to move to different city (Capernaum) because his teachings so infuriated the people living in his hometown that they drove him out of Nazareth and even tried to throw him off a cliff.
'Jesus Wife' fragment gets more testing, delays article
The real Jesus had dirt underneath his fingernails and calluses on his hands. He probably smelled badly from sweating profusely in the Judean sun on his long hikes to Jerusalem, and Jesus was, without a doubt, rumored to be a hypocrite or absolutely mad for all the time he spent with prostitutes and those afflicted with leprosy.
Not exactly have a clean-cut image.
He had a rather shady reputation.
Some people thought he was a revolutionary. The religious leaders called him a heretic, and others even accused him of being a drunkard and a glutton - in no small part because of the vagabond group of disciples he had with him. No serious religious leader of his day would have ever recruited such people.
For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the “Sons of Thunder” (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.
Jesus was sarcastic, too.
He often snapped back at the Pharisees with a tone fit for late-night television, and in a terribly embarrassing moment for all those around him, Jesus even called these respected religious teachers “snakes” that were probably sons of “Satan.”
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That’s not exactly the behavior of a sweet, self-help teacher with a halo over his head.
It’s the behavior of a frustrated man who might also be divine, but sure knows how it feels for annoying people to get under his skin.
Christians believe that Jesus chose to be born fully human, too, but why?
Lots of theologians have laid out opinions over the centuries, and in their opining they have tried once again to hijack Jesus’ humanity by defining it in philosophical terms. I believe it’s simpler than the philosophy and church councils and centuries of argument.
The brilliance of Christianity is the image of a God, named Jesus, arrived with dirty hands.
Jesus came in a time period when Greco-Roman gods were housed in gigantic temples and portrayed with superhuman powers and with superhuman physiques. Gods were believed to be far away from people on their mountains or hemmed up in their sanctuaries.
Jesus arrived in defiance of this prevailing imagery.
Jesus didn’t come flinging lightning bolts from a mountaintop, or playing politics in Rome. He came to live in a typical Middle Eastern village called Nazareth that was home to a couple hundred typical people. He didn’t decide to brandish his power, but to spend most of his time with the powerless and disenfranchised. And when he started a religious movement that reshaped history, he did it in the most profound and anticlimatic way:
He let himself be killed, and then he busted open a tomb.
In Jesus we meet a Savior who understood the desire to sleep just a few more hours, and who had to control his temper sometimes. In Jesus we find a God we can relate to because he chose to relate to us.
He was the God who became dirty so that the world’s souls might be made clean.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Johnnie Moore.
Dreamer...I don't even think for a second I could comprehend what you had written if I read it 10 times. Dimensions...I understand I'm in this one for now, and in Heaven when I take my last breath here...that's it. I pray for the ones who don't believe...and get irritated, probably shouldn't...but do. Good luck...be blessed.
There are billions of people in the world today....and billions of people that came before those that are alive today...Having a faith in an after life was common in the vast majority of them...The Buddhist believe in reincarnation...that the soul returns in a new body and lives over and over again...who am I to say they are wrong....
I would say it is not your responsibility to to convince others to believe as you do yourself....Just believe in yourself and use the power of showing by doing as an example to others....People are judged more I think by what they do...not as much by what they say or think to themselves...In Action everyone shows their true inter self...but I also have to admit I'm like many here like you that find it hard not to add an opinion of my own to the flow as they go by...some posts just call out to the reader to add their own view...and besides anything posted on the internet these days can be seen by many others and stored away in computer databases and may live on after we are all long dead....it is like planting a time capsule to the future...We still watch old movies long after the actors and actresses, and all the other people who made those movies have died...so carry on....and know yourself and to yourself be true....
So Jesus also could see the future....Knew before he would be turned in to the Roman's by Judas...Knew he would be denied three times by Peter...Jesus even knew his own fate....and still allowed himself to die on the cross...because dying on the cross was his purpose in life...to take on the sins of man....
If you look back through all the comments you will find I made a post about how I liked to ask engineers what they thought of imaginary numbers...why do we need them, are they proof of more dimensions....The responses I got were from other engineers...That explained there was nothing strange about "imaginary numbers" and they could not "see" how they pointed to more dimensions....So now I will explain me true reason for that question....
An Engineer "sees I wrote Imaginary Numbers" and thinks of the term "Imaginary Numbers",and the process that uses those Imagnary numbers....and says nothing is strange about them....Someone that does not know what they are might Google imagenary numbers and read about them and agree there is a reason for them in mathematics and they do nto seem to be special or point to more dimensions....
But a very small number will read the words "imaginary numbers" and see the two words "imaginary".,...and "numbers"...A few might make a jump to Why?? do we have numbers anyway...becuase we are intelligent beings.....That could link my comment to the Garden of Eden...the tree of knowledge.....they might look at the word "imaginary" and ask why do humans have the ability to imagine anything...Humans can think about things that do not exist in reality...We can design a building on paper that does not exist and then build it...make that paper drawing into a real building.....We humans can imagine this we even can see....like radio waves.....electric magnetic waves.....We use this knowledge to build a Global internet network....
We as humans have intelligents that allows us to make leaps in logic...to even be able to think in a form of logic....but so do animals and even plants and insects and other life forms on this planet..They all can change their enviorment, or move to a better one...like traveling to avoid the winter cold weather..or planing for a shortage of food and saving food to eat in winter, or eating more then they need so they can sleep through the cold weather...but back to humans..
Funny where does human thoughts exist....we all have a brain that fires nuerons and we can see where our thoughts come from...but really are the electrical signals the actual thoughts....we have electrical signals running inside our computers, smart phones, and internet, and TV's ...some like the internet are just pulses of light..So do those electrical pulses,or light pulses have thoughts too?...Or are thoughts just part of another dimesion, and the nuerons just a way to make our body, "which are chemical and electrical machines", work..Religions talk of the soul....and the body are two different things...The body can die, but the soul is eternal...So they say anyway...Well moving on..what are dimensions?
Take a piece of paper and a pen point a point on the paper...That is about as close and one can get to a 1 dimension existiance....Then draw a 2 dimension firgure...a line, a circle, a box...a squiggly line....all are forms of a 2 dimension existance....Does that 1 dimension point or two dimension figure have intelligence?.... Are there any forms of intelligence that exist in a 1 or 2 dimension world...
Okay now more to 3 dimension....that can be a box...but can it be a tree?.....a tree takes time to grow...but you can cut a board from the tree and that is 3 dimensions...but even that will change over time..Ah yes Time....
We live in at least 4 dimensions...we have the dimension of time also...Which is a dimension very different from the first three...and you might say we can only travel in one direction in time now...forward....but maybe Jesus had a way to travel back anbd forth through time...and see his future...maybe there are other people that can do that too...Maybe someday someone will invent a machine that can travel back and forth in time...After all some one created a radio, the TV...The old CRT TV's used a 2 dimension piece of glass and time to create a image that looked like a 3 dimension world...ops 4 dimension world....
But getting back to my comment about imaginary numbers....Does intelligence exist in the 4 dimension we live in?...or is the fact we as humans have the ability to imagine things that do not exist and then make them real..proof of another dimension..that we use but do not even think of as a dimension....most would not thing of time as a dimension either...and you can even argue time is not a dimension.....It is up to you to believe one way or another....but I would argue that with out the passing of Time a 3 dimension life form would never be able to move...and the first 3 dimensions do not allow for movement...a cartoon is a set of signal drawings that comes to life when the individual pictures are scanned...
The other interesting thing is a higher dimension exists in a lower dimension a pen can pierce a piece of paper..but the second dimension can not know of the full form of the pen without the benefit of time...a true 2 dimension being could not understand that the pierces took place over a period of time....It would have to be atleast 3 dimensions..and include Time..
We can say God and Jesus may or may not exist...but in my opinion, if God does exists..he would be of a higher dimension...and so would his son Jesus...and we really have no idea what those other dimensions are like...What a being could do if they wanted to in our reality..We might now even be aware of just how many other dimensions are all around us right now...like time...maybe the dimension of thought.....what else....To say a supreme being can not watch us 24/7 does not cover the exisitance of the powers of other dimensions...Think for a minute, if we found a form of life that was just 2 dimension and had the dimension of Time...We could easlily look down inside they homes and listen to their conversations...if they could talk anyway and observe them without ever being seen by them...and they would be powerless to stop us from watching...Kinda like a ant farm...
@ TOM TOM The Piper...I'm afraid I'd for a second blow my witness with a person like you, I'd throw you a pure beatin for what I imagine wouldn't take very long. I'm not one of those passive Christians who are bar far better than me, I'm what I call a work in progress. It's not easy, see if it was people like you might become one, but since it's not...you mock it. calling people f-tards on line....tough guy huh?? I've had the misfortune in my life to see a lot of bad, in the middle east, asia, mexico, and here in the U.S, and dealt with serious ignorance, and you measure up to be one of those weak minded, educated, wimps that has to blurt out garbage talk and from probably 2K miles away. No problem, because this is the only place you probably have refuge...you and the other sophisticated ignorant non believing special people....Hell my friend is real, andf I'm not grading your report card...Jesus is...and you would be wise to seek him before you depart with your nothingness from this earth.!!
Why are you responding to my post, but addressing it to Tom Tom....Did I miss something?...or did you make a mistake and pick the wrong post to reply to?
...I hit the wrong reply to....I need to stay off this site..lol...hard...real hard.....!!
dreamer96… It is clear you have been doing far too much thinking and reading on your own and not enough sitting down and learning from a true sent preacher (who gets his info from God). You need to sit down and to allow a sent preacher to teach you some truth. Only then you will know something…
You talk about time and dimensions as though those things are outside of God, as though God is somehow subject to them. He is not and those things are within God. For example, as regarding time, God can move time forwards, backwards, suspend it, reset it, and there's even a place in God called "time no longer" where time does not exist. The same thing with physics and all that other stuff. Those things are all inside of God, and God exists outside of them. Which means that God may utilize those things but is not subject to any of them…
Revelations 10:6 – And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever…that there should be time no longer:
I do not think of God as subject to Time..or any limits at all..That is interesting that you see that in my writing....But if Time is a dimension it is under the control of God...and yes if God exists, God is beyond the control of Time too....I was just trying to point out one approach to looking at God..and our place in this reality and that there is more to this reality then we are aware of. and science has provided proof of that over and over again...
I am sure there are an infinite number of ways to try to describe God's existence., and a limited number that will make any sense to humans...
The topic of this article is the Bible and the story of Jesus.. and the comments ..have moved to, If God exists, if Jesus ever existed...If God exists, God is infinite...and has infinite powers....and we can Read the Bible and then ask if they are a real stories of God and Real stories of Jesus....and some will demand every word in the Bible has to be from God and others will not, ans the same for the stories of Jesus....others will not take every word as facts and still others will deny Jesus existed or was the son of God.....and others will deny any existence of any form of God at all...
I'm sorry, "Iron Sharpener" and "OpposingView", but "God" and "He" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated assertions may represent truths is: "CHRONIC TOTAL FAIL".
You did not include me.....and you use the name of a computer in a famous science fiction movie...and that movie was about an encounter with a much higher form of intelligence in our universe....that used a 1 by 4 by 9 block to do what ever it wanted to do...like giving monkeys intelligence and turning Jupiter into a sun....hmm So are you saying ..You can accept more intelligent beings in this universe...just not a supreme being over all...or at least not the stories in the Bible.....I admit I have a difficult time believing every word in the King James Bible...but that does not stop me from looking at the parts I do not have a problem with....as Jesus said in his sermon on the mount..."If you do not believe in Me..Believe in what I Do"...Jesus said many interesting things...that I think are worth repeating ...and I can separate what Jesus tried to teach, from what other people have tried to teach using Jesus and the Bible...They are separate things...
hal 9000... Please stop spewing that nonsense over and over again for which you don't have an ounce or proof. All you do is just copy and paste your nonsense. I'm sure there is an atheist forum somewhere that would be far more accommodating...
If you think using "hal 9001" means that someone believes in aliens, you must think that my name means I have a gambling problem.
I remember your comments in response to my original question..your view on questions is limited..you lack imagination..Albert Einstein said Imagination was more important then knowing the skills to do mathematics....
carbon-dating and radioactive decay process scientists use to determine the age of things is flawed.
Tell that to these folks
Where Does All Earth's Gold Come From? Precious Metals the Result of Meteorite Bombardment, Rock Analysis Find
Sept 9, 2011 — Ultra high precision analyses of some of the oldest rock samples on Earth by researchers at the University of Bristol provides clear evidence that the planet's accessible reserves of precious metals are the result of a bombardment of meteorites more than 200 million years after Earth was formed.
I won't even waste my time trying to tell a bunch of ignorant morons things they should already know but are either too stupid or too ignorant to know. Those very same people has long been told the truth by others in the past but has rejected it. I've seen no evidence they'd accept the truth now. They'll just find out on Judgment Day...
Opposing View, your response is nothing more than "You're a stupid poopy head! My dad can beat up your dad! I'm gonna tell my dad and THEN YOU'LL BE SORRY!"
Bet... Only a child's mind would look at things like that. If that is how you see my post then you are truly ignorant...
Any person who has no respect for God obviously wasn't raised right.
That is your opinion. Opinions aren't facts.
I don't have to know your parents.
In order to assess their parenting skills, you do have to know them. Many good parents raise children who do not turn out well for various reasons, and vice versa. Without personally knowing me and both my parents, you can't make any claims about either of us.
I also know that you are a liar and that you have no truth.
Give me an example of where I have lied.
And that is all I need to know.
And clearly, you don't know much. You can't even tell the difference between a fact and an opinion.
So stop wasting my time...
I'll continue to comment on your posts for as long as I want. Feel free to read or ignore.
Seperation of Church and State !
The courts have also ruled ID/creationism can't be taught in public schools in US.
26 states have created new (STEM) science standards for 2013.
Another lie there is no separation of church and state or at least shouldn't be and has no basis in fact and this phrase was coined from a letter to the Danbury Baptists. It is amazing how a letter to a church wound up being the thing that is being held against them.
Oh, Blob. You can't even write as simple sentence without fvcking it up and you expect to be taken seriously as a historical scholar? It is to laugh!
There is most certainly separation of church and state and it isn't based solely on a letter, you fvcktard.
The exact phrase is not in the Consti.tution, true. But the concept is represented by the Establishment clause, the Free Exercise clause, and the No Religious Test clause.
It is these items and the concept they represent that Jefferson summarized/paraphrased in the Danbury letter with a "wall of separation between church and state" and which we now commonly state as 'separation of church and state'.
While your article is a interesting concept it is not fully rational nor probably accurate. While the Apostles were truly a less than desirable lot, between the arguments between themselves.The fact that they had Jesus there but never believed Him till He rose from the dead always gave me hope for my salvation knowing I was not a model of holiness that Jesus taught. But with this Jesus and the apostles had some important differences that are important and somewhat disturbing that you don't take into account. One is Jesus cast out demons and healed the sick as did the Apostles. We are also commanded to do this today if we are truly His with the Holy Spirit inside of us. This is the walk with power and authority that was taught by Jesus so many times. So in knowing this and the fact that Jesus and the Apostles when they saw a lame person or disease asked what sin did this person commit or his parents commit that allowed him to be like this. This teaching is very important even today because sin is still a opening for all kinds of things. Why is it we look at the words and take into account all the things that are achievable in the flesh but dismiss the things that require a true relationship with God in the spirit to achieve.? It is so easy to take religion and make that the important thing but without the power of the Spirit to truly energize and electrify the Christan walk. This is really what the bottom line to this article. while Jesus indeed did need to wash and so did the Apostles the dirt on the outside of their body we would be denying the power of God over all life if we did indeed say that disease did have its way with them. But the real dirt was just as Jesus preached in the heart of man. While this dirt truly required a healing from as all the Apostles had some form of this and required a change of heart to heal from and sometimes supernatural change of the bondage's that caused people not to see the truth this was the real dirt. Just as Paul on the road to Emaus had a supernatural encounter with Jesus that changed his life it was very clear that this was a heart issue. He was not healed of anything except the blindness and not human blindness but spiritual blindness. When the scales fell off his eyes and he could see his healing was total and complete just as we should be today. It is kind of a shame to me that the VP of a school could be like the Pharisee that Jesus taught and saying how could you being a teacher not know these things and yet teach others. It was a case of the blind leading the blind and they both fell into the pit. We as Christians not powerless but powerful through the Lord but those who would deny its power and yet teach the Gospel are actually mislead and the Bible teaches is really the spirit of the anti christ.
Too long, too boring.....
Bob… Although I commend your faith and belief in God, there are some things you stated I wish to clarify…
First, you stated that because Jesus and the Apostles healed the sick and cast out demons, that we are also supposed to do this if we are truth His and has the Holy Spirit inside. For clarification, that commandment was only for his sent preachers. If you are not a preacher and is not sent by God to do that kind of work, then it is NOT your job or duty of heal the sick and cast out devils. Nor do you have the power to do it. That ability does not apply to everyone. It only applies to the true sent preachers…
Secondly, you spoke of how Paul on the road to Damascus had a supernatural encounter that changed his life. That encounter was not supernatural. The encounter was 100% natural. Jesus was actually there in the flesh and was not talking through the spirit. Jesus had came all the way back from heaven to meet Paul on the road to Damascus, to select him to be one of his apostles. To be an apostle, that is a requirement, all apostles must meet Jesus in the flesh. Thus, the encounter was not supernatural at all or in the spirit, but Jesus was actually there and standing on the road to Damascus. Paul was then blinded by the brightness of the light which came from Jesus. The bible says that a light shone from heaven. Yes, the light and heaven that was inside of Jesus. Wherever Jesus is, there is heaven and here is light. The bible says that God is light. Thus, Paul was blinded by the brightness of that light and could not see. After the encounter, God then sent a sent preacher named Ananias to Paul's house not just to restore his physical sight but to also anoint him to preach the gospel. To be a preacher, you have to be anointed to preach, you just can't get the idea in your head that you're a preacher and then start preaching and doing the work. It doesn't work that way. Jesus must choose you to be his preachers and then you must be anointed. So after the anointing, that is when Paul became one of the apostles. That is also why Paul later states in 1 Corinthians 9:1 – "Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord…". Indeed he has seen Jesus, on the road to Damascus. Although Jesus already had died on the cross, had rose from the dead, and ascended up into heaven by the time Paul was chosen, Jesus made a special trip back from heaven just to meet Paul on the road to Damascus. Meeting Jesus is a requirement to be an apostle…
You cannot clarify anything you are all knowledge and no faith no power in the spirit and not baptized with the Holy Spirit. No one whose is God chosen can speak against God and Jesus, that is a fact out of love and in many of your posts you have. I can give you many scriptures on this but can you provide any that share your view. One that supports my view is This and greater things you will do. Also that is quite funny that you say Paul didn't have a supernatural experience with God when he heard a voice out of heaven fell to his knees repented of his sins had scales put on his eyes was blind till at what God told him to do to go into town and have this particular person pray for you and Paul did that and when prayed for the scales fell off his eyes and he was able to see again.He officially at Gods command changed his name from Saul to Paul and the credentials of this man of God and his life is important also. If that is not supernatural then I don't know what is. Like I said before those that speak faith but deny the power are actually the spirit of the anti christ it is exactly how Jesus laid it out in the Bible you seem to follow that are you a worshiper of satan?
Act 9:4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Act 9:5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Act 9:6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
Act 9:7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
Act 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Act 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Act 9:11 And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,
Act 9:12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight."
Act 9:13 But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem;
Act 9:14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
Act 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Act 9:16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."
The upper room was the example and the day that at 9 am all thought the apostles were drunk you have no idea and are clueless to really what makes a Christian and as shown in these passages are totally wrong with your account of Paul
I'm sorry, "Bob" and "OpposingView", but "God", "Christ", "Lord", "the Spirit", "He", "anti christ", "Holy Spirit", and "satan" are all elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL".
hal 9001… And why do you atheists show up here every day spewing that same worthless garbage. A constant stream of nonsense without a shred of proof to back ti up You atheists are all the same. You need to get a life. Better yet, you need to get some truth…
Bob… You seem to place a high value on faith. I'm not saying that faith is not important, but the scriptures also state that faith without works is dead. Faith alone won't save you. You must also have some works to go along with it….
You gave me a long rambling tirade about Paul's experience and then stated, "If that is not supernatural, then I don't know what is". Answer: You don't know what supernatural is, then. Paul's experience was a 100% natural and not a spiritual encounter. And the scriptures back that up…
I have made my point clear, that there is a clear defined process for a person to become a preacher. You can't just decide within yourself to be a preacher, and then go out and start preaching. It doesn't work that way. God has to select you to become one of his preachers. If he doesn't, and you're a preacher, then you're working for Lucifer, and is a worker of iniquity. And it matters not how much you call yourself preaching and teaching God's word…
Lastly, I can see by the scriptures you quoted that you're reading and using a false bible and a false translation. Don't use that bible. Those New Translation bibles are of the devil. The best English translation version to use is the original King James Version (not the New Edition King James Version). The original King James Version is the version that is closest to the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. That version didn't change anything but only converted the original manuscripts into english. In contrast, those false bibles you see today goes beyond that and completely rewrites most scriptures. Therefore, such bibles are of the devil…
I'm sorry, "OpposingView", but it is mankind's religions and their followers that, in fact, have never shown and credible, knowable, evidence of the claims they have made. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
hal 9001... It's funny you should say that and yet can't recognize that you haven't provided even a single ounce of proof for the claims you have made...
I think I understand a little better where you are coming from so faith without works is dead. It means if you have faith then your faith will produce works just like love that has no expression is that really love. We cannot do enough works to produce any faith if that is what you meant. The NASB is good
Opposing view since you seem to prefer the King James here it is. Pretty much the same and still the men with him heard the voice but didn't see anything. You were wrong totally just as you are wrong about faith and what God does. You still are not answering my question are you a follower of satan? All your reasoning is not going to allow you to understand God.
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the Goads
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Act 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
Act 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
A fossil skeleton found in central Nevada's desert years ago has been identified as belonging to a 30-foot-long sea monster that ruled beneath the waves 244 million years ago.
Yea g-od was roaming around 244 million years ago, don,t think so., according to bible earth is not that old.
I don't doubt the skeleton they found may have been some kind of unknown sea creature (I feel the skeletons of all dinosaurs are nothing more than the skeletons of large unknown sea creatures which got trapped on dry land when the waters of Noah's flood receded) but their conclusion that the skeleton is 244 million years old is a complete fallacy and they have no idea what they are talking about. The whole carbon-dating and radioactive decay process scientists use to determine the age of things is flawed. That's because such processes rely on the assumptions of certain things that man couldn't possibly know about. All such testing processes pre-concludes that when the earth first came into existence and was new, that all elements were in a certain state at that time. How could they possibly even know that? How could they possibly know the exact state the elements were in at that time? Answer: They don't. They can only assume it was. And it is in that assumption that their calculations are in error. And that is why their conclusions are false. The reality is, it was God who created the earth, and the earth was created only 6000 years ago. And that's truth which has been confirmed by Jesus...
Secondly, those very scientists who has made all outlandish claims (about the earth being millions of years old) are merely atheists who don't know God and nor believe in God. The bible says "It is impossible for God to lie". And that same God has stated, the earth is only 6000 years old. Therefore, for any scientist to believe otherwise (and that the earth is millions of years old) is to call God a liar. And if so, that scientist couldn't possibly actually know God, or actually believe in God. Thus, they are an atheist...
More recent information:
" DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who about 60,000 years ago began a remarkable journey. Follow the journey from them to you as written in your genes”.
"Adam" is the common male ancestor of every living man. He lived in Africa some 60,000 years ago, which means that all humans lived in Africa at least at that time.
Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in his era. Rather, he is unique because his descendents are the only ones to survive.
It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all the genetic diversity."
o More details from National Geographic's Genographic project: https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic
"Our spe-cies is an African one: Africa is where we first ev-olved, and where we have spent the majority of our time on Earth. The earliest fos-sils of recognizably modern Ho-mo sapiens appear in the fossil record at Omo Kibish in Ethiopia, around 200,000 years ago. Although earlier fossils may be found over the coming years, this is our best understanding of when and approximately where we originated.
According to the genetic and paleontological record, we only started to leave Africa between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago. What set this in motion is uncertain, but we think it has something to do with major climatic shifts that were happening around that time—a sudden cooling in the Earth’s climate driven by the onset of one of the worst parts of the last Ice Age. This cold snap would have made life difficult for our African ancestors, and the genetic evidence points to a sharp reduction in population size around this time. In fact, the human population likely dropped to fewer than 10,000. We were holding on by a thread.
Once the climate started to improve, after 70,000 years ago, we came back from this near-extinction event. The population expanded, and some intrepid explorers ventured beyond Africa. The earliest people to colonize the Eurasian landma-ss likely did so across the Bab-al-Mandab Strait separating present-day Yemen from Djibouti. These early beachcombers expanded rapidly along the coast to India, and reached Southeast Asia and Australia by 50,000 years ago. The first great foray of our species beyond Africa had led us all the way across the globe."
Origin of life is not a question of How. It is a question of Who.
Jesus said God is able to make children of Abraham out of rocks.
It is God who makes any thing at all. In Him was Life.
where is your proof..
To "??????"... The word of God is our proof. Where's yours?...
"The word of God is our proof."
Where's your "proof" that it is the word of some god?
ME II... Show me your proof that it's not and i"ll be glad to show you mine. Either put up or shut up...
Perhaps the writer, Johnnie Moore, is best offered the following insights:
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
AND a warning.."God is not to be mocked!"
God will certainly be mocked. And he is impotent to do a thing about it.
Your god is a vindictive, petty pr1ck, and it's followers snivelling sycophants.
God is omniscient, so god knows who will accept his scarecrow son as a savior and who will not.
Yet he allows the latter to be born anyway. Why, if not to get his jollies torturing them?
Those who burn are fuel. You Sam, may turn out to be crude. Destined for consumption aeons into the future.
i may be crude, 2357, but you are pompous a$$
f you and your empty proxy threats, cvnt
Love, why is it you use a book of fiction to try and make valid points? It is Nota reference book, no the word of god, or any type of god. Circular argument. You argue for yourself.
To "Which God?"… The bible is NOT a book of fiction. I have no idea who told you that lie and nonsense. And that is your first error. Therefore, all you stated after that fact is completely worthless…
Secondly, what all atheists call "circular arguments" is nothing more than the truth you cannot defeat. And truth cannot be defeated...
Opposing view. Your god, is impotent to change anything. He lets entire countries die of drought. He allows volcanos to destroy people, floods to wipe out cities, even as your god had said that he would NEVER flood anything. Such a lying god you have there. It is impotent, a fake, and for you to believe in it is a sad 'testimony' of your desparation to have an 'everlasting life' worshiping a figment of your imagination. What you bought into is group delusion.Sad.
To "Which God"… And your parents should have raised you right and taught you better and taught you some respect. Any fool who can speak evil about an eternal God you've never even seen, has never even met, and don't know anything about, is a fool indeed. And you will have to give an account to that God for what you have said…
Matthew 12:26 – But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Jude 1:10 – But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
@ Opposing View
You really don't know how anyone here was raised, so dismissing an argument by denigrating someone's parents, whom you have never met, is just an ad hominem attack.
Many of us were raised in religious homes according to biblical standards of parenting. We've read the bible. We know what it says. We don't believe it because there is no evidence that it is true.
Using the bible to prove the bible doesn't work. It's like quoting The Night Before Christmas to prove Santa Claus is real.
Bet... Any person who has no respect for God obviously wasn't raised right. I don't have to know your parents. I also know that you are a liar and that you have no truth. And that is all I need to know. So stop wasting my time...
And, by your reasoning, any life-long atheist who becomes a Christian wasn't raised right by their parents either. Difference is, most atheist parents teach their kids to think for themselves. Sometimes they choose to become religious as adults, but mostly it seems that they discover that religion offers them nothing for themselves. Calling all nonChristians "liars" simply because we reject your religious beliefs is just silly.
In order to judge their parenting skills, you do have to know more than just that you don't like what I say.
Give me an example of where I have lied.
And that is all I need to know.
a very human opinion from Johnnie Moore who is an anti-christ...Jesus came to us in humble ways to contradict the practice of the powerfuls then who are crooked in many ways..we have the bible ..the concrete guide not to be misled by crooked opinions..a book written by some evangelist/apostles being inspired by the holy spirit
'not to be misled by crooked opinions...."
of course, editing by people with agendas is okay, right?
No evidence for jeebus, luz. The whole thing is sheer fantasy.
The author fails to note what most are unwilling to admit: Jesus was not only gritty and dirty, He was also either ugly or–at best–an unattractive human being. Why do I say so? Because the prophecies concerning the Messiah reveal this in Isaiah 53:2, to wit, "... and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." All those Renaissance portraits of reasonably handsome Italians are about as misleading as telling folks that the Wise Men visited the Child while he was yet cradled in an animal's feeding trough! (They came to visit the "child" at the family's "house." See Matthew 2:11 for verification.) Or, for that matter, that this is 2013th year since His birth–check out any encyclopedia or unabridged dictionary under the heading of "Herod" or "Herod the Great," and you will find that that particular ruler died about (according to our current reckoning) 4 B.C. Because dead men don't usually fear whatever a man might become, it is clear that our calendar is inaccurate. If we date things from the birth of Jesus, then this must be at least 2017 or 2018–and maybe even beyond that...
Our current date is AD, not BC. And time counts downward from BC, but forward from AC. Therefore, four years after Herod's death in 4 BC, the calendar would have been in zero. And 2013 years after that date, and the calendar would be at our current date...
we know that we live among children of satan and children of God, we know also the voice of God because we are his children. the children also speaks their fathers' word, that's all. Jesus is not a history , he still works.
Then put him to work to improve your writing skills.
@sara's whopper brown stain
The sign of Jonah was a cryptic way of referring to the death and resurrection of Christ. Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale, Christ was buried in death, but on the third day He overwhelmed the grave. This is proof for all time and humanity. The rest of the proof is through reading the Bible, and developing an understanding of God's word while growing in faith with uninterrupted freedom to make choices about eternal destiny.
For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9
"Repentance" from what? Being human?
buster.....god made us imperfect, and we have to repent for his fvck up?
We have to repent for sins committed out of our own free will. Just like death and taxes, there is no free ride.
and yet i have no god to have sinned against or need repentence from
buster: how is free will consistent with an omniscient god?
God works everything according to His purposes.
This notion of his people [Jews of Judea] rejecting Jesus is a notorious, egotistic one-eyed-jack claim. Fact is, the Jews didn't reject anyone or anything, not in Christianity or Islam – they just remained as Jews, according to their beliefs of 2000 years at that time. They proved themselves 40 years later against the mightiest power in history – and they won, upholding their monotheistic belief as none others did to date. Rome is dead, and but for those brave Jews of Judea we'd all be worshipping Zeus & Jupiter today. Smell the coffee and think again.
... in the same way the Taliban are undefeated... The US rolled in to Afghanistan and literally drove out the taliban it was estimated that no more than a handful fled into Pakistan...... they were removed from any influence in Afghanistan.....
Then Fundamentalist Islamic Groups sent thousands of combatants into Pakistan, along with a lot of money.... Today the Taliban is more organized, has battle hardened fighters...and all the guns they need, and a relatively safe haven in Pakistan.. granted there are virtually no afghan natives among them, but rising from the ashes sure fits here.....
Israel was all but gone – scattered around the globe.....enter the UK:1948 ... Israel reborn.....kind of the same story and they have enough friends in high places in the West to intervene should things go south on them – in all their wars they recieved more than a little help from the US and Europe.
The Jews did indeed reject Jesus, and there are scriptures which confirm it…
John 1:11 – He (Jesus) came unto his own (his people, the Jews), and his own received him not.
Luke 20:17 – The stone which the builders rejected (Jesus), the same is become the head of the corner?…
Or, the Jews rejected the Christians who were going into synagogues trying to convert people, and the gospel writers fed words into the mouths of their Jewish characters demonizing them to put a better face upon this rejection for themselves. Jesus never wanted to start a new religion centered on him, right?
This article has a 'spiritual odor' of rotten eggs.
This dude here is seeking his moment in the media. And alas, he's got it!
I knew Liberty university has taken a plunge, but this just even more exposes it's condition... And this dude is one of their high ranking professors...?! Oh, dear God! What has become of Christianity in this land of overfed brats, boastful rebels and lazy do-nothings? Has Christianity lost its strength and has to resort to such beggarly tactics this dude uses to get the world to look at Christ Jesus? In the Scriptures we are told that the angels are watching in amazement the heirs of salvation and marveling at the work of God in their lives. But what are they seeing in this day and time and in the midst of the church that's so washed out that it has become the spectacle to the world? It is really obvious "what time" it is!
This is what God, His Father has to say about Jesus .
Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coast lands shall wait for His law.”
Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they[a] made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul,[b] and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.
(Isaiah 42, and 53)
If a person focuses on anything else and in the idleness of his fleshly mind creates imaginations that he thinks will draw attention of the crowd to himself, he is entering a "danger zone" where he will not be protected from the spirits who rule there,and he's got himself in position of being deceived, becaue he lusts after the fleshly gory, not after the Spirit of God. Many things this dude said about Jesus are out of line and God's Spirit rejects them. So, Here is the picture of man creating God of his own imagination.
As for Liberty University... you may get few converts along the way. And they don't' have to do anything, just slide downward with you!
PRISM 1234 and Chad
Isaiah 53 continues from chapter 52, right, and that chapter is describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. Israel IS the "Suffering Servant", not Jesus some time in the future. Isn't it rather ironic that Isaiah 53, which actually refers to the Jewish people as "bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter", was stolen by Christians who did a lot of that to them?
Verse 5 is a mistranslation. It should read:
5 But He was wounded FROM our transgressions,
He was bruised FROM our iniquities;
Also, verse 9 states that the Messiah would do no violence, yet did Jesus not violently chase out the moneychangers from the Temple? And how many "offspring" (verse 10) did Jesus have? Also, there are many other messianic predictions that Jesus did not fulfill. Isaiah 53 clearly does not refer to Jesus.
Ben, are yo so naive to believe those who tell you that? Be honest at least with yourself, and admit that Jewish people never fit that description ........But of Christ it was prophesied long before His birth and suffering
that He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
and the chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed"
Jews were NEVER bruised for any one's transgressions, but were chastised for their own. Over and over did God call them stiff necked people, who in their own rebellion turned from Him. In fact their captivity in Babylon was caused by their own sins and idolatry. The dispersing among the nations was prophesied as a punishment for their sin and their rebellion...not that they were a worse then any other people , but if you are willing to claim such outrages claim as in your post, then take the truth as a man!
So then, when did the, the Israelis, the Jews pour out their soul for transgressors of many, as it is written here :
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors??????!
So Ben, you see, claims like yours have no leg to stand on, I'm not saying this in meanness, but it is just as it was written by another saint of God: that Jews have a veil over their hearts, and can not see Christ who came to deliver them.
But, nevertheless, God has not forsaken them, because He is faithful and will fulfill His promise to His servant Abraham. Andthey will see Him whom they have pierced and will mourn and weep and will turn their hearts to Him And He wil heal them and restore them. to Himself.
But your interpretation of ther Scriptures above is like a drowning man's grasp for a straw. It is impossibility!
But the proper translation is "from" our transgressions, and Isaiah is certainly making the case that the Jewish people earned their own misfortune to their actions against God, right? Seriously, if you want help with Jewish scripture I suggest asking a rabbi.
Some ways in which Jesus fails the Messiah test. He was not, supposedly, just an ordinary man. Ordinary men could be messiahs, but no Jew was expecting God to come in the flesh. He did not bring peace to the world within his lifetime. He did not gather all Jews back into Israel, or rebuild the ancient Temple in Jerusalem. He also did not unite humanity in the worship of the Jewish God and Torah observance. Christians are very selective as to which messianic expectations they choose to point out when making a case for Jesus.
But you don't understand, Ben. They were lacking support for their own story – they needed to brush something else up to make it look like the jigsaw puzzle was always like that. lol. Oh the early Christian apologists – sloppy screen writers both forward and backwards.
Ben, here are few places to check it out for yourself if you have desire to know the truth. i know your rabbi thinks he he knows it all, but at the end it is not before your rabbi you'll stand accounting for your life and what you've done with Yeshua. How do you deal with just these few
1. Genesis 3:15.....Seed of a woman (virgin birth).....Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:18-20
2. Genesis 3:15.....He will bruise Satan's head.....Hebrews 2:14, 1 John 3:8
3. Genesis 5:24....The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated....Mark 6:19
4. Genesis 9:26-27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem...Luke 3:36
5. Genesis 12:3...As Abraham's seed, will bless all nations...Acts 3:25,26
6. Genesis 12:7...The The Promise made made to Abraham's Seed...Galatians 3:16
7. Genesis 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek...Hebrews 6:20
8. Genesis 14:18........A King also........Hebrews 7:2
9. Genesis 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed...Matthew 26:26-29
10. Genesis 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac.......Romans. 9:7
11. Genesis 21:12 …Seed of Isaac…Romans 9:7, Hebrews 11:18
12. 161. Isaiah 6:1...When Isaiah saw His glory... John 12:40-41
162. Isaiah 6:9-10...Parables fall on deaf ears...Matthew 13:13-15
163. Isaiah 6:9-12...Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words...Acts 28:23-29
164. Isaiah 7:14...To be born of a virgin...Luke 1:35
165. Isaiah 7:14...To be Emmanuel-God with us... Matthew 1:18-23
166. Isaiah 8:8...Called Emmanuel...Matthew 28:20
167. Isaiah 8:14...A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8
168. Isaiah 9:1,2...His ministry to begin in Galilee...Matthew 4:12-17
169. Isaiah 9:6...A child born-Humanity...Luke 1:31
170. Isaiah 9:6...A Son given-Deity...Luke 1:32; John 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16
171. Isaiah 9:6...Declared to be the Son of God with power... Romans. 1:3,4
172. Isaiah 9:6...The Wonderful One, Peleh...Luke 4:22
173. Isaiah 9:6...The Counselor, Yaatz...Matthew 13:54
174. Isaiah 9:6...The Mighty God, El Gibor...Matthew 11:20
175. Isaiah 9:6...The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth...John 8:58
176. Isaiah 9:6...The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom...John . 16:33
177. Isaiah 9:7...To establish an everlasting kingdom...Luke 1:32-33
178. Isaiah 9:7...His Character-Just...John 5:30
179. Isaiah 9:7...No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace...Luke 1:32-33
180. Isaiah 11:1...Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer...Matthew 2:23
181. Isaiah 11:1...A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse...Luke 3:23,32
182. Isaiah 11:2...The anointed One by the Spirit...Matthew 3;16,17
183. Isaiah 11:2...His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al....John 4:4-26
184. Isaiah 11:4...His Character-Truth...John 14:6
185. Isaiah 11:10...The Gentiles seek Him...John 12:18-21
186. Isaiah 12:2...Called Jesus-Yeshua (salvation)...Matthew 1:21
187. Isaiah 16:4,5…Reigning in mercy…Luke 1:31-33
188. Isaiah 22:21-25…Peg in a sure place…Revelation 3:7
189. Isaiah 25:8...The Resurrection predicted...I Corinthians 15:54
190. Isaiah 26:19...His power of Resurrection predicted...John 11:43,44
191. Isaiah 28:16...The Messiah is the precious corner stone...Acts 4:11,12
192. Isaiah 29:13...He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word...Matthew 15:7-9
Genesis 22:8...The Lamb of God promised...John 1:29
271. Isaiah 55:1…Every one come who is thirsty…New Testament
272. Isaiah 55:3...Resurrected by God... Acts 13:34
273. Isaiah 55:4...A witness... John 18:37
274. Isaiah 55:5…Foreign nations come to God…Acts
275. Isaiah 59:15-16a...He would come to provide salvation... John 6:40
276. Isaiah 59:15-16b...Intercessor between man and God... Matthew 10:32
277. Isaiah 59:20...He would come to Zion as their Redeemer... Luke 2:38
278. Isaiah 60:1-3…Nations walk in the light…Luke 2:32
279. Isaiah 61:1-2a...The Spirit of God upon him... Matthew 3:16-17
280. Isaiah 61:1-2b...The Messiah would preach the good news... Luke 4:17-21
281. Isaiah 61:1-2c...Provide freedom from the bondage of sin and death... John 8:31-32
282. Isaiah 61:1-2...Proclaim a period of grace... John 5:24
283. Isaiah 62:1-2…Called by an new name…Luke 2:32, Revelation 3:12
284. Isaiah 62:11…Thy King Cometh, Entered Jerusalem on Colt…Matthew 21:7
285. Isaiah 63:1-3…A vesture dipped in blood…Revelation 19:13
286. Isaiah 63:8,9…Afflicted with the afflicted…Matthew 25:34-40
309. Dan. 9:25...Announced to his people 483 years, to the exact day, after the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem... John 12:12-13
Does your rabbi has any explanation for them? It's amazing what man can do to pacify his own conscience. After all we see it every day. But go ahead, check it out, Ben, and don't take my word for it, but look into God's word yourself. Your soul's eternity depends on it!
Yeah, I'm sure that I could take a figure whose past was not commonly known, like Jesus, and write a pretty convincing gospel that predicts his being the awaited messiah if I had the Hebrew scriptures with the messianic predictions in front of me. At least, as far as I could get away with. That whole " anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse" (from Deut. 21:23) bit also completely disqualifies Jesus as the Messiah. How could a cursed man be God's chosen savior, after all?
That's when they really got theologically creative and spun the whole thing about Jesus' death being a sacrifice. Works for gentiles who didn't really read the scriptures, but it sure didn't wash with the Jewish Christians. By that time, however, the gentile Christians weren't welcome in the synagogues any more, and they were pretty bitter about it. By the time that the canonical gospels were written that bitterness really shows, and the authors even have Jews accepting blame for killing him.
It's amazing how many Christians fail to see this.
Christians sure did make up a bunch of things.
And what contrived "OT" version is PRISM 1234 using?? LMAO!
That's a long list of verses all, pretty much, referring to Hebrew scripture out of context. I'm sure that if you believe that Jesus was the messiah first then you can see how they point to him but, like I just finished saying to frank, the gospel writers had that scripture to follow when they did their writing. Still, they ended up getting much of it wrong. Did Jesus fulfill these messianic expectations?
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
No, right. The gospel writers could not fake those things. Was Jesus a descendent of David on his father's side (Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1)? Not if Joseph wasn't really his father, right? Did Jesus lead the people to full Torah observance (Deut. 13:1-4)? Not if the stories of his run ins with the Pharisees are true. Was the Messiah supposed to be born of a virgin? No, "alma" in Isaiah 7:14 simply refers to a young woman. Psalms 22:17 actually reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari was mistranslated to read "pierced".
By tradition, all Jewish kings were anointed, or made messiahs. The future capital M Messiah will be recognized as the "king" who happens to be in power when all these great things happen in Israel. Josephus thought that Vespasian was the Messiah, so who knows about that guy's judgment, right?
"A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire." St. Gregory
Well, dear people, you can buck it, minimize it, twist it and deny it...you can even bring in the clowns to entertain you who, not make only fools of themselves, but make fools out of you who cheer them...
But you'll NEVER do away with this fact that In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God, and ALL things were made through Him, and without Him NOTHING was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of man(kind). And the light shined(perpetually) in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. And[ of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the LAW WAS GIVEN THROUGH MOSES, but GRACE AND TRUTH CAME THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, HE HAS DECLARED HIM (explained Him)...
But it is BECAUSE God so loved the world, that He GAVE His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God DID NOT send His Son into the world TO CONDEMN the world, but that the world through Him might be SAVED.
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, BECAUSE he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. whom He sent.
And this is the condemnation: that the light HAS COME into the world, and men LOVED DARKNESS rather than light, BECAUSE their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil HATES THE LIGHT and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who LOVES and DOES does the truth COMES to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
This is the testimony of the Word of God and the Spirit of God who is the Spirit of Truth. It is not against man's words and doctrines he fashions for himself to fit his agendas and fancies that we will be judged. It is against the Word of God whose testimony we have received or refused to accept. There is no partiality with God, in His eyes we are all unclean lepers laden with sin. There is no one who can stand in His Presence for himself. Only in Christ's righteousness, who was the sacrificial lamb offered for our transgressions, only by His blood can we enter the holiest of hollies. All the rabbis , priests and rulers of this world amount to nothing, and will stand naked and transparent to His eyes before Him in their own filthy garments, with no covering for their sins. But thanks be to God for His immeasurable gift that cost Him everything, just to save our miserable hides. That's why the penalty is so great for refusing Him, becaue the sacrifice was so great. What will it take mankind to understand that!?
But oh, the depth of the riches both of wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out... Yet has hidden them from those who are wise in their own eyes, but revealed them to the humble, and those of broken and contrite hearts... These are the ways of our God with whom WE ALL have to do!
I'm pretty sure they had Burger King's in the1st Century. Because we know Christians need to have it "their way" (rewriting all the old stories). They were the Mormons of their time.
I read your last post, but I guess I still have to wait for your response to my argument that Jesus does not fulfill the Jewish scripture expectation of a coming Messiah.
If you are implying, however, that atheists and other nonChristians reject your faith because we somehow "hate" Jesus then you're barking up the wrong tree. We simply don't believe in him being divine, that's all. Jesus may certainly have existed and, if he did, then I feel sorry for him. I can't imagine being a devout Jew and having people think that I'm a blasphemy.
PRISM's last post reminds me of a little brat stomping his feet and yelling "Why can't we do what I want!!!"
Ben, you said ..."I still have to wait for your response to my argument that Jesus does not fulfill the Jewish scripture expectation of a coming Messiah"
I have given you Scriptures, and web links, and you ignored them. You quote Scriptures yourself, but just like Pharisees of Jesus' time, don't know the meaning of them .
I have no desire to debate, because after giving you Scriptures that could open your eyes so you would see, you refuse to look into them. Jesus never debated beyond this point, neither does He wants us to do it.
BTW, I never implied that all unbelievers just hate Jesus. But there comes a time when each person has to decide what he/she will do with Christ Jesus, and the fact of WHO He is. The Person of Jesus Christ, His Message , His words and claims, exposes what is in human heart. In fact, no human being is ever exposed what he/ she is made out of until they are faced with the issue of Christ Jesus. Mark this word, Ben, because you'll be faced with them again. Every human being will.
Who is Jesus Christ?
PRISM 1234, I presume? Well, your scriptures prove nothing, as I've indicated before, because the gospel writers had Jewish scripture to craft their story of Jesus from. Somebody could take Nostradamus' predictions right now and invent the backstory of somebody to match them easily, right? Even with that they couldn't erase stuff that was actually known about the guy and they couldn't just make a Golden Age for Israel like the real Messiah was supposed to.
I've seen all your scriptures before, but Jesus still fails the litmus test for a Jewish Messiah. What were the early gentile followers of Jesus to do? None of them were hard core Jews, and by this time the real Jews were pushing against them anyway. Can't just make Jesus the Messiah, so why not make the Messiah fit Jesus. Make him a Christian Messiah and Savior. Hell, why not just make the Jewish Scriptures really the Christian Scriptures? Why not say it was all about them! They were in the gentile world, what did gentiles actually know about what the Jewish scriptures said and meant? They'd make their own meaning. Simple.
Ben, t is true what I said that I don't desire to debate and my post to you here is not inended to debate with you. but I feel prompted in my spirit to speak to you in this way, af wat you do wih iat is betwee n ou nd God.
The downfall of hardc/ore Jews of Christ's time and our time, as well as your own, is your misco-nception of God , His purposes and His int/ents. Therefore your focus is in wrong place.
You are the ones who should know God and understand His nature, since His Word and His laws were given to you....
But because of hardness of your hearts and blindness that it caused you, you missed His int/ent for you, failing to understand that His ways ARE NOT man's ways.
That's why your expe'ctations were (and still are) for an earthly kingdom, and have not understood that God's int/ent is establishing kingdom of RIGHTEOUSNESS.
But earthly kingdom, or better said, man's kingdom is NOT a kingdom of righteousness , and man's earthly kingdom and God's Heavenly kingdom don't mi/x. One is car/nal, earthly, and fleshly, and the other is far above, it's heavenly, and established by God Himself where He reigns.
So, you say, God said He'll establish kingdom of David's throne who was an earthly king.... Yes, but before He will do that, He will tra/nsform it from earthly to heavenly kingdom, beco/ming a kingdom of righteousness.
The way you, Jews perceive Messiah, is that He would just come, reveal Himself and elevate Israel to great Earthly kingdom, throwing some paint over it (fi/gurative speaking), white-washing it, and then establishing His throne in it......But every Kingdom is made up of people., and God wants PURE vessels (people who make up His Kingdom) , not cer/emonially, sup/erficially pure, but from the heart, people who long for Him and seek Him and His righteousness, not in what He will do for them as their King, but to behold Him in His gory as He is and be filled with HIS righteousness.
Yeshua, God's own Anointed One came into this would. The sc/ribes, and learned religious leaders didn't' recognize Him, although they knew all the Scriptures about Him, even to the place where He would be born... But they DIDN'T CARE, because they loved their pres/tige po/sit/ions, and were full of themselves.
But the humble, the lonely, the opp/res/sed who endured much of injustice, and those whose hearts longed for God 's righteousness, THEY recognized Him.
It is for THIS REASON that God sent His son into the world in such humble manner, dis/gui/sed in a humble human form in sw/add/ling clo/thes, where the proud and those of high reputat/ion wouldn't bo/ther to look...that's why He came in such way, that only those who truly sought Him would recognize Him.
He came to this world with only one purpose, that by giving His own life as sa/cr/ificial Lamb, would rend the veil of sep/aration between God and man, to bring us to Him by the blood He shed for us.
God's Lamb came, not seeking earthly cro/wn nor fame. He wanted hearts that seek Him. Do you understand that, Ben?
You see, it is the same today as it was then...He wants the hearts that seek Him...and only those who truly do seek Him will rec/og/nise Him.
You should not dis/miss those words, friend... It is in YOUR and MINE Torah that it is written:
"And you shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart"
Nothing else will do, friend. That means, anything else will lead you to be lost in the mult/i-tu/de of voices that be/ck/on you to follow them. But ONLY ONE is of God.
Seek Him, Ben, not what Rabbi says, not what tradi-tion says that you should, but seek the truth , because He is the God of Truth, and His Spirit is bearing witness to the Truth.
HE IS the Spirit of Truth. And He will show you the truth if you seek Him.
But if you allow the pride to swell up in your heart, you'll miss it altogether. You must come to the end of yourself and acknowledge that you know nothing until He Himself shows it to you. And if you seek Him He will do it There is NO OTHER WAY.
P.S. Sorry for misspelling and the "extras".... Had hard time getting thru CNN "filter"....
I understand your desire not to debate the issue, it really isn't something that can be won by reasonable argument which is why you fell back to the emotional appeal, right? All the emotional appeal does is pose a case for believing that God exists; it doesn't actually provide any reason to assume that there actually is a God out there to believe in, however. If this kind of thing really convinces you that God is real then the editorial "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" must have led you to believe that the jolly guy really does bring gifts down chimneys.
Thanks for responding, Ben. I've spent long time writing last night, so I'm glad you've got my post. There is no further need to say anything to you. I wish you well.
P. S. Just want to add, that deep down in your soul YOU KNOW that it took much more than"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" , for me to understand, being convinced , and stake my life on what I believe ! ! !
Tell me a prophet within that century who was clean by your standard
One thing is for sure, Jesus was a man's man in the finest sense of the word. He was not some long haired girly man that so many depict him to have been.
Jesus of Narareth probably looked a lot like this:
@Chad, are you serious? the guy in picture looks like Curly
not a good looking man by external appearances.
note, this was written ~800 years BEFORE the birth of Jesus.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was as signed a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
that was Isaiah 53
@Chad – that was Isaiah 53
Yeah, we know. And it had nothing to do with Jesus. That was a Christian invention, like the virgin birth business, taken totally out of context. Isaiah 52-54 contain four songs of the suffering servant. According to Jewish teaching (it is from their Scripture, after all, so you'd think they know something about it), the suffering servant refers to the Nation of Israel. The collection of poems is a celebration of the end of the Babylonian captivity. No mention of a Messiah. And notice that it is all in the past tense – "He WAS a man of sorrows ..." Wouldn't a prophecy be in the future tense?
That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) but must believe in him (Jesus) before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness against them." Quran 4:156-159
"Behold! Allah said: O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) Of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, And I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute." Quran 3:55
"O People of the Book (Jews and Christian)! Commit no excesses in your religion nor say of Allah ought but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and the Spirit proceeding from Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity", desist, iIt will be better for you. For Allah is One God. Glory to Him (Far Exalted is He) above Having a son. To Him (Allah) belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough Is Allah as a disposer of affairs.” Quran 4:171-172
julio...is it fact or fiction Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet.? I f they believe he was a prophet, and prophets cannot lie...Jesus said "I AM" .....There's only ONE .....
@Iron, there is no fiction in the Quran. Jesus said "I AM" is a fiction in the Bible.
@Juliblow & Dull Pencil: Paul Atreides was way better than Feyd Rautha.
julio... the Bible was written several "centuries" before the Quran. I don't know about your take on Allah see: Quran 8:12 then go read the Bible Mathew 5:14.
Alia is better than Paul Atreides...
@ Iron, I can’t find the connection between the two verses. The phrase " I am with you" in Qur'an 8:12 is addressed by Allah to the believer for the removal of fear during battle. This means Allah's power and might with them as He is the Almighty. While Matthew 5:14 speaks about Jesus as a light of the world which also the Muslim believes.
Julio...that's not exactly how it reads..is it. It reads in Quran 8:12...." I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them (don't get that, pretty much done after the head thing)No reasonable person would interpret this as a spiritual thing now would they?? While Muslim teaching from the Quran contains dozens of violent teachings like these acts, My Jesus teaches Love thy nieghbor, and Yes also talks about going to hell, but He will be the one to judge that..not telling us to go out and be head someone for disagrreing with my religious preference. Jesus is the one true messiah, he is the truth, the way and the light. Many...I mean many Muslims I have encountered from Egypt to Afghanistan never admit the prophet question I posed to you, and they know its been addressed. If a Prophet cannot lie, and you believe he was just a prophet...he says "I AM" many many times, the Bible was written far far before the Quran, and you should as an educated man see the parts in the Quran that are similar in the Bible, yet you turn an eye to that? Turn to Jesus my friend, there's no way any God of mine would tell me to do something like that to you for your beliefs...you have to ask yourself that. It's criminal, and goes against everything devine, and Humane......
And how can this be? For he IS the Kwisatz Haderach!
When ever a self deluded atheist comments recognize immediately that it is lying.
I love you, Turdy.
I apologize to everyone for dropping my turds all over the blog. Like the closeted gay who hides it by vigorously fighting against gay rights, I sometimes go overboard in my rants against atheists because I loathe myself for the non-belief buried deep inside me.
Call us if you ever find a self-deluded atheist commenting here. They could be deluded on some other topic, but rejecting the proposition that God is real because it lacks any evidence to support it is hardly a delusion. It's just rational thinking.
And you wonder why CNN keeps losing viewers.
And religions keep losing followers.
And followers keep losing arguments.
If its losing viewers, why do you fvcktards seem so annoyed by it, Rod?
easy there, rightttt. Consider the possibility that you might be wrong (about who the writers are and their agendas), before you go on a rampage.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.