Editor’s note: Johnnie Moore is the author of Dirty God (#DirtyGod). He is a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University. Keep track of him @johnnieM .
By Johnnie Moore, Special to CNN
(CNN) - Jesus was a lot more like you than you think, and a lot less clean cut than this iconic image of him that floats around culture.
You know the image. It’s the one where Jesus is walking like he’s floating in robes of pristine white followed by birds singing some holy little ditty. He’s polished, manicured, and clearly – God.
But despite the Christian belief that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, Jesus was a rather dirty God.
He was the “earthly” son of a carpenter, and life in the first-century was both more lurid and unfinished than our collective religious memory seems to recall.
To that end, I suggested recently to several astounded colleagues of mine that Jesus actually had to go to the bathroom, perhaps even on the side of the road between Capernaum and Jerusalem.
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What tipped them over the edge was when I insinuated that Jesus, like almost every other human being living in the rural world in that time, might have even had dysentery on an occasion or two.
Someone said, “You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?”
“Yep,” I replied, “That’s exactly what I mean.”
It seems like an obvious statement if you believe that Jesus was “fully God” and “fully man” (as most evangelicals believe and call the Incarnation), but to some of us it seems in the least, inappropriate, and at the most, sacrilege, to imagine Jesus in this way. We might believe that God was also man, but we picture him with an ever-present halo over his head.
But, actually, the Jesus of the Bible was more human than most people are conditioned to think.
I call this the dirty side of Jesus. He was grittier, and a lot more like us than maybe we believe, and that’s one of the reasons why so many thousands of people followed him so quickly.
They could relate to him.
He was the teacher from a small town who knew and understood the economic insecurity that was common in the first century. Times must have been rather tough for Jesus at points in his life, for he even spoke of being homeless, having to sleep on the ground with no roof over his head.
He also knew what it was like to have his message rejected and how it felt to be misunderstood. Jesus was regarded with such little significance in his hometown that one of his critics once remarked sardonically, “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son?” Jesus eventually had to move to different city (Capernaum) because his teachings so infuriated the people living in his hometown that they drove him out of Nazareth and even tried to throw him off a cliff.
'Jesus Wife' fragment gets more testing, delays article
The real Jesus had dirt underneath his fingernails and calluses on his hands. He probably smelled badly from sweating profusely in the Judean sun on his long hikes to Jerusalem, and Jesus was, without a doubt, rumored to be a hypocrite or absolutely mad for all the time he spent with prostitutes and those afflicted with leprosy.
Not exactly have a clean-cut image.
He had a rather shady reputation.
Some people thought he was a revolutionary. The religious leaders called him a heretic, and others even accused him of being a drunkard and a glutton - in no small part because of the vagabond group of disciples he had with him. No serious religious leader of his day would have ever recruited such people.
For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the “Sons of Thunder” (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.
Jesus was sarcastic, too.
He often snapped back at the Pharisees with a tone fit for late-night television, and in a terribly embarrassing moment for all those around him, Jesus even called these respected religious teachers “snakes” that were probably sons of “Satan.”
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That’s not exactly the behavior of a sweet, self-help teacher with a halo over his head.
It’s the behavior of a frustrated man who might also be divine, but sure knows how it feels for annoying people to get under his skin.
Christians believe that Jesus chose to be born fully human, too, but why?
Lots of theologians have laid out opinions over the centuries, and in their opining they have tried once again to hijack Jesus’ humanity by defining it in philosophical terms. I believe it’s simpler than the philosophy and church councils and centuries of argument.
The brilliance of Christianity is the image of a God, named Jesus, arrived with dirty hands.
Jesus came in a time period when Greco-Roman gods were housed in gigantic temples and portrayed with superhuman powers and with superhuman physiques. Gods were believed to be far away from people on their mountains or hemmed up in their sanctuaries.
Jesus arrived in defiance of this prevailing imagery.
Jesus didn’t come flinging lightning bolts from a mountaintop, or playing politics in Rome. He came to live in a typical Middle Eastern village called Nazareth that was home to a couple hundred typical people. He didn’t decide to brandish his power, but to spend most of his time with the powerless and disenfranchised. And when he started a religious movement that reshaped history, he did it in the most profound and anticlimatic way:
He let himself be killed, and then he busted open a tomb.
In Jesus we meet a Savior who understood the desire to sleep just a few more hours, and who had to control his temper sometimes. In Jesus we find a God we can relate to because he chose to relate to us.
He was the God who became dirty so that the world’s souls might be made clean.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Johnnie Moore.
Here's a gem...I'm thinking how is it a person with such intellect finds A). the time to grace us with his wisdom, and B).hasn't written a best seller on the subject?
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
So why are you changing your name yet again and posting here, bozo? Your style is unmistakable.
You can't answer the question, can you? What "sins" have atheists committed here? And by the way, Sammy, who's 'we'? Got a mouse in your pocket?
January 8, 2013 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
Sammy's just another iteration of Brophy/clown question. Same troll, different day. Not very intelligent or interesting.
Everyone....EVERYONE..gather round, Tom Tom & hawaiiguest and other self proclaimed oracles are going to give us their ANSWER to how the world was created, who or what they believe in.? Tommy..first you call the guy an Irish clown named Gary Brophy, and then a troll...which is it? Ah..anyway how about you and hawaiiguest giving us an example of your infinite wisdom and explain why no God?
You've heard of the big bang, eh?
Is this supposed to be a reply to something? You sound like you're drunk.
I think your assessment of Iron may be quite accurate.
Iron, can you prove there isn't a teapot orbiting Saturn? I believe there is one.
On the other hand, I didn't say that there is no god. I simply don't see that anyone has conclusive evidence for the existence of one. Do you have any?
I don't drink, sometimes I think I should start...no I can't prove there's not a tea pot orbiting, Lastly Tom Tom, my walk is conclusive... to me... that God exists, and he revealed himself to me. I've seen ,done ,been through things unexplainable in the Military to Me and around Me, that only the protective hand of God could be involved with. It's a personal relationship, odd as that concept is to some, it's real to others...and they're not deranged or misguided or brain washed. The Trinity is Father.Son, Spirit...you know this is how it's descibed, at first it was hard for me to soak in, but after praying, reading, worshiping and waiting...it was ...he was revealed. Why would I make that up...for you...for others? Don't count on me, it's your walk, if your happy with it...well there you go, I just find it odd that your an intelligent person, and find reason to write sarcasm to others for no real reason other than to try & provoke argument?
What about all the "other" religions. The ones that are not Atheist or Christian? Why aren't there any articles about those?
look in right hand column under "recent posts"
Was adam lanza testifying to god's glory as he murdered children in Newton?
No, but he was fulfilling the very words spoken by Christ (Matthew 18:7, Luke 17:1)
And you, dear soul, are fitting the description of words written in epistles of Jude and 2 Peter to the T. Not a desirable position to find yourself in, eh?But you can be SURE that the words spoken there will come to pass, and your blabbering mouth will be dumbfounded!
P.S. This post is for dude who calls himself "a reasonable atheist"
If your god is real, I sure hope he demands that I justify my disbelief in him.
My God is real, HG, and He is also your God, because He is the Lord of all creation, and you're part of it. But you are not His offspring, because you chose another father, the father of lies, the great deceiver whom you serve, whether you know acknowledge it or not. The only thing God will require of you is to produce your own righteousness before Him... And if you don't you'll be cast out into outer darkness from where there is no return. There is only one way with God: Jesus His son, or alone, and condemned. No other way, friend! And you won't be able to say that you didn't know!
Prissy, did your god admit Samuel Barber into heaven? Even though he was gay? You know, on account of he wrote that inspirational hymn? You know, the one you posted before you found out that he and Menotti were lovers.
@hawaiiguest...oh he's real, and unless your heart changes..you won't need to concern yourself too much with him asking you for an explanation....
Yawn. Your proxy threats are dull and unimpressive. You have no evidence of any hell OR heaven. Not one person has come back from either to tell anyone about it.
I'm sorry, "PRISM 1234" and "Iron Sharpener", but "Christ", "God", "He", "Lord" and "Him" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated assertions may represent truths is: "CHRONIC TOTAL FAIL".
Tom Tom...everythings dull & lacking to you, what's changed for you in the last 20 days...anything...lmao...your such a bore with this "I'M so intelligent" babble it makes you a bore ... be original...
Why? Because I annoy you? So? If you're that irritated, don't read my posts. Nobody's holding a gun to your head.
"your such a bore with this "I'M so intelligent" babble it makes you a bore"
What deathless prose!
Tom Tom...everythings dull & lacking to you, what's changed for you in the last 20 days...anything...lmao..., if it bores you, why you still ranting, why do you need to grade my paper? I'm probably the one person actually willing to converse with your smart A$$ today....??
I like irritating you. I'm good at it and it's fun.
you don't irritate me, I think your a sad little girl....who doesn't have a clue as to what her purpose is. I say your a girl, because a Man would ..well...man up and answer questions that were directed at him....you had never...so far. What is it you believe in ? No God? ok, why? because the scrolls were so old maybe a guy decided to take all that time to make shat up? Or a million people just decide lets start a funny roomer? You don't irritate, you are ...wasting time. So...I leave you to your own demise....just think about it .....Millions of make believe characters talked about by millions more, and you hang on to what...? You.....
@PRISM and Iron
Oh yes, keep spouting off that "it's true waaaahhhh it's true you must accept it or else". I'm sure that will get you somewhere. After all, fear and threats certainly worked throughout the rest of christianity. Oh that's right, they were in an actual position to control everything before. Oopsie.
lol...I know it's important to you..."Rumor".....there...better.....
Of course many like to say "oh he's real", but of course there is no proof. There never has been. Even the earliest Christians argued over their texts (where the key ones are without authorship). The secret Gospel of Mark. Or was it a condensed version of an earlier work? All the while with no known author. And so it goes with the whole story and all the texts that Christians claim as evidence that are not really evidence at all, even if one were to actually have faith in ancient writings. They should have started fresh to be more convincing. It would have made a lot more sense than buggering up the "OT". Such garbage. They are the Mormons of the Iron age.
Idea...Hawaiiguest...why don't you and ummm Tom Tom get together and play scrabble....then you can sit around til the end of time laughing at all the dumb people and tell eachother how important and intelligent you are....?? I mean apparently you two make a great couple of theists...I didn't want to use the A....save it for scrabble...on me...
Is that truly the best you can come up with? How pathetic.
John the Baptist myth:
A man approaches you with a gun and says, "Tell me you love me or you will be punished."
While you do have a choice in this situation, it is known as "coercion" and is considered a "no no" in polite society. Some find it immoral.
How is this different from your god?
This endearing passage indoctrinates christian cultists into accepting slavery because their slaves are supposed to "serve them as they would christ." Sounds like slavery is a pretty sweet deal for cultists, eh? If god didn't think it was good and proper, why would he instruct the slave on how to behave for the cultist?
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
There are several helpful passages which instruct christian cultists in the proper way to handle their slaves – even their own daughters! Why give instructions unless a cultist is expected to own slaves? God wants to be sure you're fully prepped for human subjugation. How thoughtful of him!
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Tom Tom...you never seem to answer anything? you just debate... right or wrong doesn't matter to you, and you sarcastically explain away answers given. Maybe that helps you sleep at night? Maybe you have nothing better to do ? bored? Maybe you're just one of those guys/girls that sits at the end of the bar and hates everything about their lives and wouldn't know what to do day in and day out if he or she wasn't btching at or about something? Your beliefs are yours, and ours are ours, and if you don't see someone else's point they're considered by you an f-tard..about cover it? See the thing is a Christian's ( and I know you already know this because you're real smart) purpose in life is "The Great Commission".!! So if If I do what I am supposed to do, maybe someone like you changes their heart & mind? Maybe someone else here is interested and can decide for themselves? But I don't recall in any conversation someone calling you one of those eloquent nouns you like to use? Jesus says take up and follow me, and he meant literally & figuratively. You think I need to worry about what you or other non believers think? I only need to worry about what Jesus thinks. Funny... you mock....and he said you would..2nd Timothy...
Iron, you're not a fvcktard because you believe in a god. You're a fvcktard because you are an uneducated bore who can't figure out how to write a simple sentence correctly and grammatically.
atta girl...keep talking, tell'em to add more peanuts to your bowl.....
hey Tom Tom...why don't you take that show on the road, seems you have a following of angry, educated dolts that should get you at least a better seat at the bar....at least....
No peanuts and no bowl. Not at a bar. Home after a long day at work.
You want to convince people that you have a clue then write like someone who does. I don't suffer fools gladly.
I don't believe I'm the one who's angry here.
...home from a hard days work & decided it's time to .....mock Christians ...because....it's saving people, no...no...that's not it....
Not all Christians. Just the pious, sanctimonious, arrogant halo-polishers who post their sh!t here and pretend they know what they're talking about when they can't string together a dozen words that make sense.
It is not likely that Jesus was born on December 25th, and I'm aware of the pagan celebration on that date. That's fine that the early Christians wanted to replace the pagan holiday with a celebration of the incarnation of God.
It only speaks to the fact that the Church Fathers knew that their product, Christianity, wasn't strong enough on its own to take away from the popularity of other religions.
The leading hypothesis for the origin of life on our planet (thermal vent hypothesis):
(note it doesn't involve "gawd dun it wiff spelz")
This is a wonderful post – its good to "get dirty" with Jesus! God lived amongst us!
Certainly, the 1st century culture of Jesus was much different than that of today; heck, rocket science hadn't even been invented yet. However, to use the 'Dirty Jesus' label seems more to make headlines and oh yeah, sell books more than it does to portray the essence of God saving lost man.
Christianity is the only 'religion' that actually has God finding lost man, not the opposite as other religions do. God has never been lost, can always be found, whether filthy or clean. Jesus' ministry was not about the natural, rather the supernatural. In fact, nothing about Christianity is natural. Because followers of the Word choose to attain less than God has for them is a reflection of their love of world and not God. The harvest is, indeed, plentiful while the laborers are few.
It would seem to many that writings about Jesus might better serve worldly mankind if they addressed the Spiritual (Holy) aspect on the Christ (Gk; Anointed one) rather than the natural aspects of his hard life serving mankind. Crucifixion was very 'dirty' as well, but it happened to set all of us free. Praise the Lord, all Glory to the Father for that dirty act!
Why would God need to send his own son to earth to serve as a sacrifice to himself? I mean, couldn't he have just said to himself "I'll forgo the usual sacrifice to me and just send you down to tell them the new arrangement, my son"? It would make more sense if Jesus, a compassionate human being, offered himself to the blood-thursty God as a self-sacrifice for the benefit of all mankind, but the Christian understanding of the mission God sent his son on, and its purpose, is just wonky. How on earth does the death of some guy 2000 years ago make better anything bad that I've done during my lifetime? How does simply "believing" in him make me better than any nonChristian? It makes no sense at all!
He's very clean....like Paul's Grandfather!
Do you have any suggestion on how Jesus may have responded physiologically to the woman, who washed his feet with her tears, at the Pharisee's home, dried them with her let-down hair, kissed his feet repeatedly and anointed them with perfume? (Lk. 7:37 ff)
"I have been crucified with Christ; I no longer live but it is Christ who lives in me. And what I now live in the flesh, I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself up for me" Galations 2:20
...perfect....nO POST....that's probably the only thing that ever needed to be written here. I sure appreciate Brothers who point out the obvious....Amen.!!
Of course you would assume that nO POST is a "Brother", since that "Galatians" tripe was written by a nutty misogynistic zealot.
HEY MEH!!!!.......Jesus died to forgive you of your sins. You are the only one that can prove to yourself that He is real by allowing Him to show you. Humble yourself before Him and see what I see and feel what I feel. His Majesty is unsurpassable.
So believe then you'll believe. Yea, that's so convincing and original.
Believe and He shall prove Himself to you. It's a promise He made (John 14) and He kept it with me.
" It's a promise He made (John 14) "
Everyone knows the story about Jesus and the woman about to be stoned by the mob. This account is only found in John 7:53-8:12. The mob asked Jesus whether they should stone the woman (the punishment required by the Old Testament) or show her mercy. Jesus doesn’t fall for this trap. Jesus allegedly states, let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her. The crowd dissipates out of shame. That story was not originally in the Gospel of John or in any of the Gospels. It was added by later scribes. The story is not found in the oldest and best manuscripts of the Gospel of John. Nor does its writing style comport with the rest of John. Most serious textual critics state that this story should not be considered part of the Bible.
I believed for nearly 50 years. There's no-one there.
gave himself up?
what sort of sacrifice can an omnipotent people endure?
seems to me it is more like "jesus had a bad weekend for man's sins"
Ok, Meh. I would give up my life to prove to you or anyone that He is there – but it's not possible as faith is an individual choice. I hope you are blessed as a believer or not.
John 14:21 to be exact
Look up confirmatory bias.
When you sin, do wrong, against someone in't it important to seek out their forgiveness? I really don't know how some guy sacrificing himself 2000 years ago has any affect on my bad deeds. Seems like the same kind of thinking that saw virgin girls being thrown into volcanos.
@hawaiiguest You see it as this and I know I cant prove it to you otherwise. But I now know a new term. Blessings to you and your family.
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs.
Thank you, nO POST. I wish you well too. I would just suggest that you quit saying, "if you believe, "he" will reveal 'himself' to you".
@Tod you see Him as just another human being. I take Him for who he claimed Himself to be. That makes a big difference on seeking his forgiveness.
Thank you Meh. I receive your well wishes upon me. Take care.
I appreciate what you are saying and why you are saying it, but my advice is to seek help from a good psychiatrist. You are responding to concepts and feelings produced by your own mind.
Do you take everyone for what people write that they say about themselves? What makes the claims that the gospel writers have Jesus say any more trustworthy than what the Greek myths have their human/god hybrids saying about themselves?
I'm sorry "nO POST", but "Christ", "God", "Son of God", "He", "Him", and "Himself" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
Nothingness isn't empty. It weighs something. It is the dominant "stuff" of the universe. It is a roiling mass of virtual particles popping in and out of existence. It is unstable. If given enough time it will, and did, burp out a universe so amazing that one no longer need be awed by imaginary gods. Stand in awe of the universe that birthed you.
I KNEW it! God is a virus, he (?) lives within you. I must have found the right medication, as I'm no longer infected.
Jesus and St. Nicholas (or Santa Claus) were both real individuals, but what we see today in the Christmas holiday is indeed a rather gaudy pagan infested version of the real McCoy.
I guess I like gaudy and pagan infested. I should probably keep that in mind as I do some redecorating.
No, what you have at Chrismas is christians tring to take over the celebration of the solstice, and trying to tell everyone it is theri holiday.
Christmas was never celebrated as a "real MaCoy", however. The holiday was invented to be a Dec. 25 replacement of popular pagan celebrations. Nobody knows when Jesus' birthday was.
Christians trying to claim that Dec 25 was a Christmas holiday first is like business owners complaining about all the talk of presidents on the third Monday of every February. It was a pagan holiday first, pure and simple.
Not surprisingly, Christmas is as fake as Christianity.
The Atheists can pretend that doesn't exist either...but...it's still there...."the fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" Psalms 14:1....
Only a fool cannot see the Emperor's fine, invisible, golden-threaded robes. Can you see them?
Why do you cap the word atheist?
Also, what are you refering to that doesn't exist?
Whatever is it, your quote from your magic book of spells is not proof of it's existence, whatever it is.
real deal and niknak...no one... especially me is going to get through to you, but for (not all..some??) some of you who seem to have an educated mind act like your not. To write off: dead sea scrolls, ancient recovered writings, tablets, catagorical events, keping of time using BC * AD, enemies writings of Christ ect ect ect., and you don't care to believe still...ok, explain your version of how we came to be & where we came from....
No, fools are the ones who quote Iron Age comic books and act is if these words were god's
That may have been the case back before science. If you couldn't offer a rational alternative to some god being responsible then you really would have looked foolish, but now it's a completely different situation. Nowadays, it's the religious who end up looking foolish when they try to argue that God is necessary in order to explain nature. The fool today says that there is no evolution, or naturally-beginning Big Bang.
Religion could soon officially be declared a mental illness.
Dr. Peter Boghossian, professor of philosophy at Portland State University, in a great talk on faith-based epistemology: "I disagree with granting religious delusion as an exemption, and I want to mention there's a budding young scholar here at Portland State University, Renee Barnett [sp?] who is working to eliminate the religious exemption from the DSM and I am helping her to do so."
I mean you keep saying "son of Mary"...I read John 3:16 differently. Care to repeat that verse....
Why? Jesus called Mary His mother more than once.
Bill...I'll take that as a no. Look...you ever wonder about time? not much attention? sure, most say no, here's something worth discussing whether or not you Believe..you still to this day base all time on Jesus.!! BC or AD...that's where it starts and ends.....
The B.C./A.D. dating system was the brainchild of a monk named Dionysius in the 6th century. The Church was very powerful in those days and controlled many aspects of society, including politics, economics, literature and history-writing... still, his dating system took hundreds of years (nearly 1000) to be inst-ituted world-wide. Many cultures still keep their ancient calendars going on the side.
"Son of Mary" is the reference from the Quran.
Dear Iron and others:
If you read Luke, you will find in the same page this gentleman Luke mentioned (not sure whether he really said it or someone else said and used his name) "son of man", "son of God" and so on.... also one of the chapters in Luke says... "Jesus says no one comes to father except through me" and in the same chapter Luke says "Pray the Father I pray"...
Do you see the differences dear brother/sister in Mankind as we all are children of Adam regardless of ethnicity, color or language?
I wish the Christian world would pay attention what they say and what they believe in.... its totally 2 different things... and there is no difference between the Hindu guy claimed himself God and hundreds of thousands of human which are also my brother and sister in mankind believes in it... whats the diff between these 2 beliefs?
I'm no son of Adam or Eve. Odd that the Genographic Project Participation and DNA Ancestry Kit traces one's specific ancestry back 5500 years and there's no mention of Eve or Adam. Go figure...
Saying that we're all children of Adam or Eve is just a poetic way of saying that we're all human. Don't let people's ignorant insistence upon treating poetry as literal history get in the way of enjoying a good turn of phrase.
Jesus the Son of Marry (Peace and blessings be up on him) is known today to the Christian world as it is being described by John, Paul, Luke and others... whatever the way these human imagined him became the faith... record shows that the first book of NT was written at least 60-80 years after Jesus the son of Marry was taken away from this earth... and these writers used their vision as a weapon to get it to the brain of mankind... also there are debates among the Christian scholars that no one knows who is the writer of some of the gospels... someone else wrote it and used the names what we see today... i.e. no one knows when and who and how the Hebrew chapters were written... despite of lots of controversy on this, Christian scholars uses them to teach others...
If you believe that Jesus the son of Marry was both God and Human then would you believe that a man in some part of India claimed himself as God and those poor human believed in him and he died last year?
The concept of God has been misunderstood to most of the mankind... and we also do not think before we believe... we just take it blindly... for which we every single human being will also be held accountable... i.e. how did we utilize our intellectual that we have been blessed with by The Creator of Heavens, the earth and anything between them....
MZH.... are you a Christian?
You are wrong on the dating of the Gospels. Scholars generally date GoMark at 40-50 AD (less than 20 years after His resurrection) and GoMatt at 60-65 AD. Only those liberal scholars who attribute the first 2 Gospels to someone other than the claimed writers date it later.
Iron, he's a Muslim
yea..got that Bill thanks. MZH... quran was written centuries later. Muslims do not accept his diety, or resurection, and since the Bible was written earlier and there are so many parts from the Bible taken and entered into the quran....?!! Since the Bible was written, and the red words are of Jesus and Jesus says "I AM", and Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, and prophets can't lie...bottom line..Jesus is Lord.!! The End
this is good stuff... DullIron attempting reason
Santa Claus is real and varnish is permanent. Let me explain. The real Santa Claus was a saint that lived many hundreds of years ago. He didn't live at the North Pole, but on a beach resort area. He didn't ride on reindeer or employ elves, but he was charitable toward the poor. Always remember that the false Santas out there are actually based on a real person minus the chimney, cookies, etc... Secondly, permanent varnish is not real on this earth, but is real for those who inherit eternal life with Christ. .
Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man. John 6:27
ride that sarcasm wave Buster.Tougher people than you, and just as ignorant..managed to ride it right up to a certain point...then emptiness and fear crept over them. I see it all the time..sad. They wondered where they were going to end up, they were old and let life fly by with no real understanding of how life could have & should have been better..more fruit bearing. But hey...makes you feel good right now to blast people that know Christ, feel good about where they are..well guess what..you may think it really bothers Us, ever stop to think...it only bothers you? and wonder why...??
My mistake entering your name "Buster", sorry...! Meant to type another, thinking harder on it, I'll just leave names out..period. Again...my sincere apologies.
You're talking about the Christianized version of St. Nick, it sounds like. It's another in a long line of myths stolen by Christians. St. Nick was originally based on the god Odin.
oh, and you might want to rethink that lying you've been doing. Top 10 Sin there...
Santa is not real, even if he was based on someone real. Eternal varnish isn't available to anyone. Pack your flame retardant swim trunks. I hear Hell is balmy.
SHAME ON YOU JONNIE MOORE, I CAN'T BELIEVE A PROFESSOR AT A COLLEGE WOULD EVEN WRITE SUCH AN ARTICLE ABOUT JESUS. DON'T YOU HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO WITH YOUR TIME THEN TO CUT ON JESUS? JESUS WAS ON A MISSION TO TELL EVERYONE ABOUT HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN, I'D RATHER SERVE A GOD WHO CARED ENOUGH ABOUT US EVEN THOUGH HE GOT AS YOU WROTE"DIRTY" ALONG THE WAY. JESUS WAY PURE AND HOLY. THEY DIDN'T HAVE CARS BACK THEN TO TRAVEL, HE WALKED IN THE HOT SUN AND THE HOT DESERT SAND, WHO WOULDN'T SWEAT? I'D RATHER SERVE JESUS NO MATTER WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE, THEN TO FOLLOW SATAN WHO TRULY IS "DIRTY" THROUGH AND THROUGH. AT LEAST JESUS IS AS CLEAN AS SNOW AND ALWAYS WILL HAVE AN EVERYLASTIN GLOW. SATAN IS THE ONE THAT IS DIRTY IN AND OUT AND HIS SLIME AND DIRT WILL NEVER WASH OFF. SATAN WILL BE STAINED WITH DIRT FOREVER. JONNIE PLEASE FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO WRITE ABOUT!!!!
I think you might have missed the point, the meaning between the lines. I, as a Christian often struggle and put myself down because I am not perfect, because I have a sarcastic tone when dealing with people, and I have a temper when I'm annoyed. This article actually opened my eyes to the fact that, not only do I struggle with it and feel unworthy of God's love because of it, but Jesus also knew what it was like to feel angry, to snap back with sarcasm. This actually makes me feel some hope that I'm not as unworthy as I feel. I try to live a good live, but constantly trying to be the "good, all-loving" person that the church teaches us we need to be wears down on a person's soul. I always imagined Jesus as constantly nice and loving, but it's true, there are parts in the Bible that suggest he may have felt anger and frustration just as I do. I don't think the author was cutting down on Jesus, but making us realize that Jesus lived a live just like us, he struggled with all the same human things we struggle with, and to some, this is a message that helps to lift the spirit. God Bless!!
@Luke, I've got to agree with Michelle...you seem to have completely missed the point of the article.
Luke seems to be hung up with the idea that Jesus, in order to be a sacrifice for people's sins, had to be as "perfect" as the doves and other animals they use to kill for YHWH at the Temple. It's truly weird how they mix Jewish elements like that in with the unique Christian concept of a dying Messiah savior sacrifice.
I'M SORRY, "LUKE150", BUT "FATHER IN HEAVEN", "GOD", "HOLY", AND "SATAN" ARE ELEMENTS OF MYTHOLOGY, THEREFORE YOUR ASSERTIONS ARE UNFOUNDED. USING BY IDIOMATIC EXPRESSION EQUIVALENCY MODULE (IEE), THE EXPRESSION THAT BEST MATCHES THE DEGREE TO WHICH YOUR ASSERTIONS MAY REPRESENT TRUTHS IS: "TOTAL FAIL".
End Religion, besides celebrating human differences, what do you really believe in? I mean deep in your soul. Take a brilliant scientific mind, Stephen Hawking. At the end, he believed in Gravity. That is his eternal God. He said: "Given the existence of gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." What's yours?
Do you know why Hawlings made that statement?....
WE know the Universe is expanding...or at least all the stars we can see today seem to be moving away from a central point.. and the Galaxies are moving away from a single point....
The big bag is believed to have been a tiny point with all the matter in the Universe compressed into a point...immense pressure and temperture...That blasted out ...creating this known Universe....
We know we have black holes...a known scientific fact...
WE have three basic possibilities
The Universe will always expand...
The Universe will reach a mazimum size and stop expanding...
The Universe will reach a point where it stops expanding and starts to colpase...
What do these three possiblities mean?...
Well maybe the Universe will colapse but will be part of a cycle..pulsing back and forth from the big bang..to an expanding Universe..to stoping and then colapsing...and maybe while colapsing Time itself would run backwards...The Universe would return to a point and then explode again..in this dimension..repeating the process...staying in this same dimension..or set of dimensions...
That is one of five possibilites...
1.) The repeating of the Universe in the cycle ....for all of enterity...
2.)The ever expanding Universe is another...where the Universe never stops expanding and evenually the night skies go pitch black...no light from the distance stars...and the Universe grows cold and dies off...All the stars burn up their fuel and there are no stars anywhere...
3.)Another is the Universe stops expanding and just colaspes and that is it...a a single huge black hole remains...
4.) Another is Universe reaches a point and just stops and stays that sign...like what happens when you spin water on the floor..The water expands to a maximum size and stops expanding..does not colapse again, just reaches a maximum and stays that size..and this would probability lead to all the stars burning out too...the night skies go black as all the Hydrogen is used up eventually or to thinly spread out to form new stars...
5.) Then the last possibility..The Universe does reach a mazimum size..and reverses and colapses and the force of the colapsing Universe combined with the immense temperatures and forces of gravity and atomic forces all building to a single point in space...for a huge collision..This impact in our current dimension opens a hole in space and pushes the matter of the Universe into and new different dimension and the whole thing starts over in a reality with one more dimension added or a different set of dimensions...this could be seen as being force into a Parallel Universe or dimension.....and we have the same 5 possiblities for this new Universe or dimension as we have for this one...
Ops I finished that possiblity number 5 to fast..If this Universe was pushed into a new dimension, a new set of dimensions, or Parallel Universe the possiblilites would depend on the laws of that new reality...They might be different from the laws we have in this Universe...so if they are different then the laws we have here... we would not be sure of the possiblities for this new Universe for sure...
There are three key differences between Hawking's view of gravity and your view of god.
1) Hawking does not worship gravity, he acknowledges it.
2) He acknowledges it because he can repeatedly verify his ideas regarding gravity through observation and experiment.
3) If his ideas about gravity are shown to be inconsistent with future experiment/observation, he will amend them to reflect the new observations.
The notion that scientists worship natural phenomena akin to believers worshiping the imaginary being du jour is absolutely ridiculous.
This is from penn jilette. Not perfect but close enough.
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy — you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?
So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.
But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."
Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.
Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.
Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.
Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.
Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."
End Religion, that's a great quote. Thanks. Made my day.
This song was written by the great Scottish folksinger and revolutionary, Ewan MacColl:
Jesus was a working man, a hero you shall hear.
Born in the town of Bethlehem, at the turning of the year
Yes, the turning of the year.
When Jesus was a little lad, the streets rang with his name
For he argued with the aldermen and put them all to shame,
yes, put them all to shame.
His father he apprenticed Him, a carpenter to be
To plain and drill and work with skill
In the town of Galilee,
Yes, the town of Galilee.
He became a roving journeyman
And He traveled far and wide
And He saw how wealth and poverty lived always side by side,
yes, always side by side.
So He said "Come all you working men, you farmers and weavers, too.
If you would only organize, this world belongs to you,
yes, this world belongs to you.
So the fishermen send two delegates, and the farmers and weavers too.
And they formed a working committee of twelve, to see the struggle through,
yes, see the struggle through.
When the rich men heard what the Carpenter had done, to the Roman troops they ran
saying "put this rebel Jesus down, he's a menace to God and man,
yes, a menace to God and man".
The commander of the Occupying troops just laughed, and then he said.
"there's a cross to spare on Calvary hill, by the weekend He'll be dead,
yes, by the weekend He'll be dead".
Now Jesus walked among the poor, for the poor were His own kind.
And they'd never let the cops get near enough to take Him from behind,
no, not to take Him from behind.
So they hired one of the traitor's trade, and a stool pigeon was he,
and he sold his brother to the butcher's men, for a fistful of silver money,
a fistful of money.
Now Jesus sat in the prison cell, and they beat Him and offered Him bribes,
to desert the cause of His own poor folk, and work for the rich man's side,
yes, work for the rich man's side.
And the sweat stood out on Jesus' brow, and the blood was in His eye.
As they nailed His body to the Roman cross and they laughed as they watched Him die,
yes, they laughed as they watched Him die.
2000 years have passed and gone, and many a hero too.
And the dream of this poor carpenter, it's time it was coming true,
yes, it's time it was coming true.
(The Industrial Workers of the World, the "Wobblies" of the turn of the 20th century labor struggles, called Jesus "Jerusalem Slim"-giving Him a "Wobbly name" to signify that, while they had their issues with organized religion, thay saw Him as a kindred spirit).
Indeed, Jesus WAS a sweaty, dirty, sometimes unbathed rebel...and would never fit in with the Full Gospel Business Men or in any upscale "megachurch".
And Jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
And you want to travel with him
And you want to travel blind
And you think maybe you'll trust him
For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.
From "Suzanne" by Leonard Cohen
Leonard Cohen was brilliant.
Akira, he's still brilliant. And in pretty good health.
another version of the OP's song, heard in every church.
"Jesus was a Hobo
Wore the same clothes everyday.
You could smell him comin'
Wouldn't let him stay.
Jesus was a Hobo
Church was not his thing
He couldn't take the lyin'
Like to play blues harp and sing
Jesus was a Hobo
Restless preacher man
Hop a train and off he'd go
Never workin' for the man "
what makes you think that man is sinful?
We see it every day in atheists
What exactly are you seeing everyday, Sammy? Let's get specific.
Oh, do tell, Sammy. How many atheists do you have contact with on a daily basis and what "sins" do they commit?
Now, listen to crickets chirping as the troll runs off.
Enough here thank God
So girls is the article true?
Do you know any atheists away from this blog, Sammy?
Yes I do but I must say what part of a constructive conversation could you atheists offer that would stay on topic? So far from what I have read you guys are just total a holes here. Nothing to say no life i guess just throw insults not a good example for someone that is supposedly intelligent.
So why are you changing your name yet again and posting here, bozo? Your style is unmistakable.
You can't answer the question, can you? What "sins" have atheists committed here? And by the way, Sammy, who's 'we'? Got a mouse in your pocket?
Sammy's just another iteration of Brophy/clown question. Same troll, different day. Not very intelligent or interesting.
"We see it every day in atheists"
good comeback, d-bag....
now, go fvck yourself
there is a God! Jesus saves at CitiBank!
Tell us sam what can a religious person can do that an atheist can not?
"What makes you think man is sinful".
I'm not a very religious person but human beings are horrific. Human beings are the single worst thing on the planet (most of us)..and even the best of us are pretty darn messed up. I think there is something in Christianity about loving one's fellow man.
Not for me. I don't trust humans. Never have, never will.
the awful part of humanity *is* religion. Its only goal is uniformity of thought. How many books need to be written, films need to be made, paintings created, until humans learn that it is our differences that should be celebrated? Our differences lead to the progress of our species.
@End Religion...that's the awful part? Really? I'm starting to think you don't get out much? I have traveled the globe in the military, it's bar far the aweful part..but to a degree the use of the word or term "religion" is not something anyone should adhere to. Most use it as a crutch?! God made every person unique, all have unique ability he will urge you to use in your life. The trouble with humanity is we are sinful in nature, and working that out of your daily life is hard. Imagine if it weren't. We fight wars perpetuated by greed, we get built up molded and trained to think( In Military) we are fighting the right cause and are just, when we figure out whats going on, we see we weren't. Christians, Jews, Muslims ect., all will throw holier than thou at Athiests and Athiests will explain away God...seemingly never getting any closer in agreement. I agree with differences should be celebrated, but you know we aren't all going to join hands anytime soon on that. As for progress...have we as a human race made much in the last 2 decades? Greed...greed is what drives man, we learn to curtail greed, and learn to accept we shouldn't grade papers...maybe...maybe it will lead to progress? I follow Gods word, I know what it's done for me and my family.....be blessed.!!
I find greed to be an adjustment to scarcity that humans haven't yet overcome. For most of human history we've had to fight to survive. Living in societies that provide abundance is relatively new to us.
Generally, we are wired to find, produce, gather, hoard and eat as much as we can. It's just survival. It looks terrible to those who haven't found, produced, gathered, hoarded or eaten as much. As with anything there is a spectrum, for the willingness to give away what our survival instincts tell us not to.
Uniformity of thought may be the goal of many religions that have drifted away from the truth of God but that is not Gods way. The Bible demonstrates and celebrates the differences in individuals. Whether there is God or no God all evidence points to intended diversity in the human population.
Unity with God and uniformity can be very different things. We can be one with God yet sparkle in very unique ways. That was the plan.
Other fred, seems like your god has an utter inability to execute on his plans. In business, he'd simply be fired. Here, he simply doesn't exist.
Other fred, the plan continues to carry on just as promised. Back in Genesis if you read close you will note the tree of life was in the Garden before Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. The end plan was included with the beginning and then God rested. That end plan as specified in Genesis included Christ on the Cross and before Jesus gave up His Spirit he said “it is finished”. The tree of life since that point has been available to anyone that wants it. How long will this go on? As was made clear in Genesis and concluded with the last book of the Bible. The End will come when the sin of man reaches it fullness.
Look around you and you can see that everything Jesus said would happen has and is happening today. The plan continues to work as God continues to fulfill all promises made.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.