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My Take: Jesus was a dirty, dirty God
January 5th, 2013
10:00 PM ET

My Take: Jesus was a dirty, dirty God

Editor’s note: Johnnie Moore is the author of Dirty God (#DirtyGod). He is a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University. Keep track of him @johnnieM .

By Johnnie Moore, Special to CNN

(CNN) - Jesus was a lot more like you than you think, and a lot less clean cut than this iconic image of him that floats around culture.

You know the image. It’s the one where Jesus is walking like he’s floating in robes of pristine white followed by birds singing some holy little ditty. He’s polished, manicured, and clearly – God.

But despite the Christian belief that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, Jesus was a rather dirty God.

He was the “earthly” son of a carpenter, and life in the first-century was both more lurid and unfinished than our collective religious memory seems to recall.

To that end, I suggested recently to several astounded colleagues of mine that Jesus actually had to go to the bathroom, perhaps even on the side of the road between Capernaum and Jerusalem.

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What tipped them over the edge was when I insinuated that Jesus, like almost every other human being living in the rural world in that time, might have even had dysentery on an occasion or two.

Someone said, “You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?”

“Yep,” I replied, “That’s exactly what I mean.”

It seems like an obvious statement if you believe that Jesus was “fully God” and “fully man” (as most evangelicals believe and call the Incarnation), but to some of us it seems in the least, inappropriate, and at the most, sacrilege, to imagine Jesus in this way. We might believe that God was also man, but we picture him with an ever-present halo over his head.

But, actually, the Jesus of the Bible was more human than most people are conditioned to think.

I call this the dirty side of Jesus. He was grittier, and a lot more like us than maybe we believe, and that’s one of the reasons why so many thousands of people followed him so quickly.

They could relate to him.

He was the teacher from a small town who knew and understood the economic insecurity that was common in the first century. Times must have been rather tough for Jesus at points in his life, for he even spoke of being homeless, having to sleep on the ground with no roof over his head.

He also knew what it was like to have his message rejected and how it felt to be misunderstood. Jesus was regarded with such little significance in his hometown that one of his critics once remarked sardonically, “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son?” Jesus eventually had to move to different city (Capernaum) because his teachings so infuriated the people living in his hometown that they drove him out of Nazareth and even tried to throw him off a cliff.

'Jesus Wife' fragment gets more testing, delays article

The real Jesus had dirt underneath his fingernails and calluses on his hands. He probably smelled badly from sweating profusely in the Judean sun on his long hikes to Jerusalem, and Jesus was, without a doubt, rumored to be a hypocrite or absolutely mad for all the time he spent with prostitutes and those afflicted with leprosy.

Not exactly have a clean-cut image.

He had a rather shady reputation.

Some people thought he was a revolutionary. The religious leaders called him a heretic, and others even accused him of being a drunkard and a glutton - in no small part because of the vagabond group of disciples he had with him. No serious religious leader of his day would have ever recruited such people.

For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the “Sons of Thunder” (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.

Jesus was sarcastic, too.

He often snapped back at the Pharisees with a tone fit for late-night television, and in a terribly embarrassing moment for all those around him, Jesus even called these respected religious teachers “snakes” that were probably sons of “Satan.”

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That’s not exactly the behavior of a sweet, self-help teacher with a halo over his head.

It’s the behavior of a frustrated man who might also be divine, but sure knows how it feels for annoying people to get under his skin.

Christians believe that Jesus chose to be born fully human, too, but why?

Lots of theologians have laid out opinions over the centuries, and in their opining they have tried once again to hijack Jesus’ humanity by defining it in philosophical terms. I believe it’s simpler than the philosophy and church councils and centuries of argument.

The brilliance of Christianity is the image of a God, named Jesus, arrived with dirty hands.

Jesus came in a time period when Greco-Roman gods were housed in gigantic temples and portrayed with superhuman powers and with superhuman physiques. Gods were believed to be far away from people on their mountains or hemmed up in their sanctuaries.

Jesus arrived in defiance of this prevailing imagery.

Jesus didn’t come flinging lightning bolts from a mountaintop, or playing politics in Rome. He came to live in a typical Middle Eastern village called Nazareth that was home to a couple hundred typical people. He didn’t decide to brandish his power, but to spend most of his time with the powerless and disenfranchised. And when he started a religious movement that reshaped history, he did it in the most profound and anticlimatic way:

He let himself be killed, and then he busted open a tomb.

In Jesus we meet a Savior who understood the desire to sleep just a few more hours, and who had to control his temper sometimes. In Jesus we find a God we can relate to because he chose to relate to us.

He was the God who became dirty so that the world’s souls might be made clean.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Johnnie Moore.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Jesus • My Take

soundoff (7,741 Responses)
  1. Buster

    2000 years strong, and still saving lives.

    January 27, 2013 at 12:09 am |
    • sam stone

      uh huh

      prove it, blob

      January 27, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Saving lives?....really...how many 2000 year old people do you know? Pretty sure that everyone dies.

      January 27, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
  2. Phil

    Why is it those that dont believe in Jesus's think sarcasm and correcting spelling makes them sound smart.In my book it makes you sound concieted. pick on me if you want I need a good laugh.

    January 26, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
    • Damocles

      So if you were spelling something wrong, you'd rather everyone laugh at you instead of correcting you? Weird.

      January 26, 2013 at 10:36 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      You have a strange sense of humor, Phil. Look into parallel structure, and read a basic grammar book when you get that chance. Hope your spirits improve!

      January 26, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      It's conceited by the way.

      January 27, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
  3. Bob

    What I find interesting is Jesus gave up His life it was not taken from Him. He also was not killed by the beating He took with the cat of nine tails either so in knowing this how does this guy think that Jesus didn't have control of illness that would try to come on Him? So He could cast illness out of everyone else just not Himself, yup makes perfect sense, NOT. Its really a shame that this Christian has no idea of who God is His power and how He chooses to use it. Spirit life is so different that teaching of books.

    January 26, 2013 at 9:05 pm |
  4. Buster

    Jesus is real.

    January 26, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • David

      Yes, Indeed!

      January 26, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      Chad and his sock puppet.

      January 26, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • Athy

      Yes, I know, Buster. Jesus is real because I have a piece of toast with his picture on it.

      January 26, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
    • End Religion

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/18/godless-mom-strikes-a-chord-with-parents/comment-page-140
      In arguing that God doesn't kill people, Chad said: "I think you mean "allows to die", just like the millions of other people in the world that are allowed to die by natural causes every year. Some die young, some die old, we all die at some point. Killing someone is different. Killing is the intentional taking of a life by another human being."

      Chad constantly argues God is a person.

      ...and then there's Ecclesiastes
      "1 Everything that happens in this world happens at the time God chooses. 2 He sets the time for birth and the time for death, the time for planting and the time for pulling up"

      It's easy to see, if God exists as Chad suggests, then He has murdered everyone who has died, and will murder everyone alive right now and in the future.

      Fortunately we know God is not a person, right Chad?

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/18/godless-mom-strikes-a-chord-with-parents/comment-page-140

      Chad said "hmm.. no.. I constantly argue that God is (for lack of a better word) a "person"."

      So you believe your god is a person. Thanks for agreeing that he is a murderer. Or does "person" have some other definition from an unquote-marked person which makes it a non-person, and if it does, why do you not use the quotes all the time to preserve this magical other definition? And why do you claim that there could be no empirical evidence for god because he is a person, when clearly you agree he is not?

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/05/my-take-jesus-was-a-dirty-dirty-god/comment-page-47/
      Chad said: "how are scientific standards going verify the existence of a person (the God of Israel, Jesus)? What scientific standard would you use to verify my existence?"

      And again in that answer you said, in reference to peer-reviewed testing of the existence of god and/or jesus
      "@Chad "3. what "peer-reviewed" means, and what would satisfy that requirement"
      @Saraswati "Again we have some standards. Yes, you might quibble on the exact board of reviewers, but it would be people in the various scienfic and philosophical fields addressed."
      @Chad "do historians count as peer reviewers? Remember, we are talking about persons here and events that happened in the past."

      January 26, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
    • David

      Who is Chad?

      January 26, 2013 at 8:38 pm |
  5. Medhat

    Jesus legacy survived 2000 years and growing, his dispels died for there witness account of him , your article will not even survive for a week, neither Hawkins theories.

    January 26, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • Rick

      "Jesus legacy survived 2000 years and growing, "

      So have hundreds of other gods, doesn't mean they're true.

      January 26, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Medhat,

      Over 2,000 years now and still 2/3rds of the world does not believe the Jesus legend. It took probably less than 50 years for the theory of gravity to be accepted world-wide... and it is the same for any other proven ideas, eg., mathematics, the telephone, radio, engines, penicillin, etc., etc., etc.

      The population of the world at present is a bit over 7 billion.
      There are approximately 2.1 billion Christians, which is around 33 per cent.

      http://chartsbin.com/view/3nr
      http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904108.html

      January 26, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
    • Athy

      Jesus's, not Jesus
      Disciples, not dispels
      Their, not there
      Medhat, one can easily see you're a religie from your writing.

      January 26, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • JPO

      Athy: It's not polite to correct other people with your mistaken ideas. The possessive of Jesus is Jesus', not Jesus's. It's a minor issue but still "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones."

      January 27, 2013 at 6:17 am |
    • sam stone

      medhat. you make claims, but do not back them up. how do you expect to convince others?

      January 27, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
  6. Dave8582

    But, Jesus was a demigod. The godly half could not have borne dirt or odor.

    And that part about crapping by the side of the road? Next you will be trying to tell me Jesus had wet dreams.

    Cheers!

    January 26, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
  7. Phil

    Jesus didnt come to make you believe in him.He came to share the truth . Its obviously your choice . He will respect your desire to not believe in him. I thought he was full of it and all those who chose to believe in him,but I took a shot and now I chose to believe in Jesus .Some times I blow it but he is always helping me unscrew my self.

    January 26, 2013 at 10:17 am |
  8. ray

    Bla De Bla De Bla... So much claptrap so little understanding.

    January 26, 2013 at 7:18 am |
  9. Buster

    I am a authoritative and credible source. I don't have to have faith in this statement because I know it to be fact, and you can choose to believe me or not, but it does not change the reality.

    January 25, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • sam stone

      sayin' it don't make it so, joe

      January 25, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
  10. The Mayor of Medinah

    Well praise Allah for that … well just think, no running water, no toilet paper, no soap, I would imaging that everybody was fairly stinky back then

    January 25, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
  11. Buster

    @David8582

    I did read their books. Let's see. Stevie Hawkings is a smart guy, and he uses his intelligence to pull the wool over your eyes, and sell books. The key to discrediting his position on God and Spirituality is in the fact that a vacuum space is a volume of dimensionality, and not "nothing".

    Lawrence Krauss, has a doctorate degree, but is of average intelligence. In his recent book, he uses the same type of logic used by Hawking, but in a less in intelligent way. For example, at the beginning of his book, he writes this long apology in attempt to justify his definition of "nothing" that renders the rest of the book useless.

    Richard Dawkins is supposed to be a brilliant evolutionary biologist, but, as I've stated previously, biology has already been tossed into the garbage bin in terms of its relevance to sensible discussion about science and religion. He knows very little about theology, and absolutely nothing about the supreme physical and computational sciences. In the written afterward of Krauss' book, Dawkins appears to offer a lot of praise for the idea simply because it supports his overall position toward God, and not because he understood the actual content.

    January 24, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Buster, why should we believe you are a credible scientist and not just another mentally ill believer azzhole? Can you name bona fide (as in, not believer apologists) scientists that refutes Hawking, Dawkins or Krauss?

      January 24, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • Buster

      I speak the truth because the truth will set you free.I am a credible authoritative source.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • sam stone

      HotAirAce:

      Don't you see how it works? Buster is a credible source because he said he is.

      The bible is the word of god because it said it was

      And the circle goes 'round and 'round

      January 25, 2013 at 6:07 am |
    • Moore

      Thanks for the insight Buster..never quite realized that atheists were so gullible that they are such an easy prey for stevie, richie and lawrie not to mention hookings, doggings & crassings

      January 25, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • sam stone

      Moore: Not as gullible as falling for that iron age comic book

      January 25, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • sonofsarai

      Much of the science behind religion bashing is not credible, scientists have seemed to confse a very basic principle, the difference between not proving something and disproving it. However, there is no need to believe in some cult leader from thousands of years ago. It is as absurd as following scientology. Make up your own religion if you are so inclined, and both sides, please, stop trying to convince us of your beliefs.

      January 26, 2013 at 4:02 am |
  12. Prophet Maximization

    I saw some that had a problem with Jesus being called a God, so I thought it would help to explain to you how he is your God, especially since the dying God of Earth is not doing the work to heal. Like I said before, the God of Earth is dying and doesn't want to heal. Jesus is our way to salvation where he will be our new God on a New World. The God of Earth, through Maruduk and Mithras (Shamash), who wrote parts of the Torah refuses to repent and heal, so the future is certain for most who don't heal from a sickness. Heal or face the wages of sin. The God of Earth is Jesus's brother though he tells everybody he is the Creator of the Universe. God's father El has tried to get through to him along with the rest of his family, but the intervention is not working without him wanting to do the work to change.

    January 24, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • End Religion

      Thanks for adding more horseshit to the massive pile that is religion.

      January 25, 2013 at 6:21 am |
  13. Sequoia

    If Jesus were alive today, he'd slap all of you silly.

    January 24, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • NClaw441

      You know, I don't think He would, if His life on earth gives any hints.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • sam stone

      Yeah.....and think how fast his hand would move with those holes in the palms

      January 24, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • Sue

      Sam Stone: ROFL. Good one.

      January 24, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
  14. Buster

    Let me make some clarifications on a few points.

    1) Jesus is the Son of God, but not a separate God. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit represent a triune God and is of the same essence. @ David8582: any definitive physical proof of the existence of God and Spirituality runs counter to faith, and the purpose of life–which is ultimately to glorify God. Non belief, request for signs or lack of faith is inherently anti-Biblical and is not rewarded as it does not bring about glorification to God. However, Jesus did give a sign to everyone including non-believers. The proof was in the sign of Jonah.

    2) There seems to be some misconceptions about the "Lake of fire". When a believer in Christ dies, they immediately go to Heaven to be in paradise with Jesus. When a non believing agnostic or atheist dies, they don't immediately go to a lake a fire, but are put into a hellish place to await final judgment. I like to think of this place as being in a county jail awaiting trial to be sent to prison. But, wait, there's more, the story has not ended yet. Ultimately, believers will receive a new glorified physical body, and be a part of the new resurrected physical universe. At this time, atheists, agnostics and non-believers will be placed into the lake of fire with the defeated enemy.

    January 24, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Sequoia

      You must be taking the good stuff. It's a wonderful story though.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Todd

      Yup, nothing like fear to sell a concept, it's been the greatest selling tool in human history. You would think some idiots would know that by now.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Buster

      Fear is not a good motivator, and I did not write that comment intending for it to be a pristine example of evangelism. However, the best thing one can do for their fellow mates, is to simply tell the truth. In the Bible, Jesus talks about hell more than heaven. It has often been said that no pastor should ever discuss the topic of hell with their congregation without weeping. The best way to know about God is to simply listen and pay attention to what he said as revealed through the Word, or Christ.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • sam stone

      buster brown: you do know that people cannot fear retaliation ("judgment" for you self-congratulatory pious folk) from a being in which they do not believe? or, is your oh-so-superior intellect unable to grasp that basic fact of logic?

      January 24, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
    • Prophet Maximization

      Actually the God of Earth is dying and doesn't want to heal. Jesus is our way to salvation where he will be our new God on a New World. The God of Earth, Maruduk, who wrote parts of the Torah refuses to repent and heal, so the future is certain for most who don't heal from a sickness. Heal or face the wages of sin. The God of Earth is Jesus's brother though he tells everybody he is the Creator of the Universe. God's father El has tried to get through to him along with the rest of his family, but the intervention is not working without him wanting to do the work to change.

      January 24, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Buster

      @sam stone

      Ignorance is bliss.

      January 24, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Ignorance is bliss." – buster brown

      so is pompousness

      January 25, 2013 at 6:09 am |
    • End Religion

      Every nutter and his preposterous "one truth"... Battle Royale of Nitwits.

      January 25, 2013 at 6:32 am |
    • sam stone

      ER: No kidding. Someone could almost feel sorry for them, if it weren't for their unbridled arrogance.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:40 am |
  15. laststonecarver

    Almost 100 blogged pages on this topic, and nothing was decided. And the topic: Grimy Jesus.
    One commonality, everyone has decided where they stand on the topic of God vs Not god.
    Out of all the thoughts, that have, and will process to become your mind, you took the time to share some of those thoughts with your opponents/enemies in belief, or maybe some who are similarly aligned. That is so sweet, and shows Respect for those of differing opinions, that you would outlay so much of your precious time, in discussions of how you feel, and more intimately, how you believe.
    And you are all believers, with just a twist of how you imagine all space and time to be.
    All Space and Time, hmmmm, seems pretty vast. Seems impossible to ascertain. Seems like there must be some purpose. Maybe if I just knew my self, who I am, then I could have the possibility of knowing someone else, and in turn make the isolation of 'Just my Opinion' seem less lonely, in All Space and Time.
    And Grimy Jesus.....,WWGJD???

    January 24, 2013 at 9:37 am |
  16. Myrko

    The Buddha

    1. “All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become.”

    You become what you think about or in other words: what you focus on grows in your life and from what you take your focus away from diminishes.

    It means that the mind is directing our life in the way we manifest the life around us by the thoughts and directions we take with our mind. Since everything we created around us is first created in the mind, it is the tool or the interface between our self and the material world.

    Another quote of Buddha with a similar message here is “He is able who thinks he is able”. This also shows the creative power of the mind and if we are able to consciously use it in that way – avoiding negative thoughts and utilizing empowering thoughts – we use it in a supportive manner.

    2. “All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can wrong-doing remain?”

    This is the core of personal development. It points towards the need to train and develop the mind and to free it from limits and negativity.

    The other quote “The mind is the source of happiness and unhappiness.” makes the same point with the special notion of happiness. The mind used correctly – i.e. constructive, empowering, solution- and action-oriented, positive, truth-seeking – can create happiness. But used poorly – i.e. blaming, egocentric, negative, blinded by ambition or separation – it will create unhappiness for us. Training the mind is the key here.

    The quote may also point to a transformation by awakening directly, where the mind becomes the servant of the self and not the creator of a self-image (the concept of the ego) as a replacement for the true self.

    3. “Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.”

    This points to the abundant nature of reality. The abundance mentality says there is enough for everyone, we only have to realize and live by it. It is the opposite of a scarcity mentality, where you have the belief that you always have to fight for your part in a limited world.

    4. “Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.”

    The essence of living in the present moment, the Now, is focusing the mind here and take attention away from thinking about past or future. The present moment is all there ever is to experience life directly. Past and future are only concepts of our mind and therefore are good for learning from the past or conceptual planning when it is useful, but after this there is no need for them. Especially not to dwell in them and get stuck there in the mind by constant thinking loops.

    5. “However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you If you do not act on upon them?”

    Action is what counts. It means to be action-oriented and to actually do what we think, to prove what we believe by applying it in reality. Only if we “walk our talk” we are authentic and truthful to ourselves.

    To apply yourself and your ideas in reality is like a proof-test for what we think is right and will work. If there is no action and therefore no testing in reality, the words or ideas themselves are of no real sustainable value.

    Another quote for this message is “A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker.”

    6. “Even death is not to be feared by one who has lived wisely.”

    This is the essence of Carpe Diem – to seize the day fully means living wisely. It means to live to the highest truth we know and to rise to our highest values and capabilities.

    Living wisely also means not to believe every thought that comes, but to live more from the space between thoughts, from our essence.

    7. “Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.”

    The so-called Inside-Out approach means to look within oneself to find the inspiration and power to act from this place. It means not to look to the outside world for liberation or happiness, but to take the responsibility for oneself and become that what we are seeking.

    His second quote here “No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.” talks directly about this responsibility, response-ability we have inside.

    8. “In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true.”

    Any perspective we have on anything is only a relative truth. There are always both (or more) sides of any story. An objective perspective or an absolute truth is very hard or maybe impossible to see. But to be aware of this and to be interested to see another perspective from another person can be very mind-opening and valuable.

    9. “If we could see the miracle of a single flower clearly, our whole life would change.”

    This quote is perhaps the most difficult one to really understand. In the first place, it is not about the beautiful nature of the flower or beauty itself. What Buddha is talking about – in my humble opinion – is to see and get in touch with the life in a flower directly, without any interference by our mind by mental concepts and thoughts of the flower.

    10. “The only real failure in life is not to be true to the best one knows.”

    If we are not authentic and truthful to ourselves, we build a wall around us that eventually we have to tear down again. It is then literally a resistance to the reality and our own nature where we can hide some time, but life has a way to show us our own faults in the end.

    To be true to the best one knows means to come from our own best knowledge and not buy into something outside ourselves blindly, always asking: is this really true to what I know?

    In resonance with this quote also is the final one by The Buddha:

    “There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.”

    January 24, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • laststonecarver

      Thanx for making me think.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • Bob

      Buddah is dead cant speak from the grave so all this wisdom is lost and not able to do anything for anyone except as they can personally conform to these sayings

      January 24, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • sam stone

      sounds a lot like jeebus, blob

      January 25, 2013 at 6:28 am |
    • laststonecarver

      The words that we speak describe who we are. Otherwise said, we live by our words.
      We see the same picture that is this Earth, but our minds describe it in so much variation, that it seems – it must be a different place for some, than it is for others.
      Many 'in their grave people', have described what their environment appears to be. I don't discount their perception, because they are dead.
      We choose what we want to think about, and some enjoy the carnival, that is the discussion of belief.
      Up and down, and round and round they go. Screaming out their message of what they believe.
      And some think grander/gradeur, in hopes that what they imagine, will surpass any other imagining.
      My god is better than your god, or my not god is better than your god or, blah blah and blah.
      But some take wisdom form where they can find it. The treasure that is wisdom. The treasure that you can take with you, into death and beyond. I am talking about Life Understanding. I am talking about understanding your environment, your environment, which creates YOU.
      If that wisdom comes from people 'in their grave', or the flower, or the song, or the story that brought tears to your eyes, with its beauty and eloquence, how can you deny that it affected you? Or maybe it didn't, maybe you are just dead to Life, or unconcious.
      Well then, nevermind, take me on the ferris wheel of your thoughts, SPIN it around, but not too many times, I might get sick, and make a mess.

      January 25, 2013 at 6:49 am |
    • laststonecarver

      grander/grandeur

      January 25, 2013 at 6:50 am |
    • Bob

      Carver
      Wisdom is the judicious application of knowledge. It is a deep understanding and realization of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to apply perceptions, judgments and actions in keeping with this understanding. It often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions") so that universal principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions. Wisdom is also the comprehension of what is true coupled with optimum judgment as to action. Synonyms include: sagacity, discernment, or insight for wisdom is better than jewels and all desirable things cannot compare with her. I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, and I find knowledge and discretion. The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverted mouth, I hate. A fool looks but cannot see a wise man looks and sees the world unfold. A word of wisdom gleaned from someone else does not make one wise because it is not something that can be copied. Wisdom has value and weight it has movement and is never still. If only because the words beg you to move forward and see the deeper meaning. It is a hook to those who want to learn inspiring them to go beyond themselves to see the very meaning and creator of life itself. This is why the world seeks knowledge because knowledge without wisdom is a cheap imitation. It only says what was or is not how or why it got there. A man cannot have wisdom until he wants to see beyond himself and explore the depths of existence. This is the very nature of God, for He is the creator the one who gives life and has conquered the grave, who made the worlds by His understanding and formed us out of the dust of the earth. He is wisdom without Him there is no wisdom. So when you speak of wisdom and creation mans words will never make one wise. It will be a point of learning to all those that realize there may be something else deeper more powerful than what we see. Don't get caught in worshiping the creation rather than the Creator for creation is only the fingerprint of the creator. In that you see the application of wisdom not what created it as science does that looks at things that are created and follows the trail of bread crumbs that led to the creator. Each little discovery a marvel to those who found it while the world awaits the deeper and more profound discoveries of wisdom.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:43 am |
    • laststonecarver

      A man cannot have wisdom until he wants to see beyond himself and explore the depths of existence. This is the very nature of God – is your opinion

      It is true that wisdom can be found beyond one's self. So you agree with Buddha's teaching.
      What that has to do with the nature of God, somehow escapes me. Are you implying that man created God by exploring the depths of his existance? And what would you possibly know of the nature of a God?

      So when you speak of wisdom and creation mans words will never make one wise.
      Which I'm guessing implies that no one could ever have wisdom, because their minds formulate thought in human words, at least mine does. I don't have a God language app, that I use for thinking.

      It makes perfect sense to me, that you would formulate your perception, of your environment, because of your decision making process. I could never fault you for it. But your environment does create YOU. And All of Our Environments, creates all of us. If you wish to label your environment as God, your are more than welcome to do so.
      I suggest that before you respond, that you take a big picture look at your environment. That environment of your body and mind, and if you are so inclined, your soul. And when you do, you will still describe it in human words. Although there is this minor wisdom , that I would relate – Music is the language of the Angels

      January 25, 2013 at 8:47 am |
  17. Bob

    We when we read the Bible we often tend to miss some of the most awesome miracles that may seem normal, one is genealogy. All these generations and Jesus was born into this line with this inheritance with God telling us in the Old Testament how when and where the Messaih was to be born. God made a promise to Abraham and telling about the lineage of the Messiah the town the family that He was to be born from. Oh and so much more years before Jesus came on the scene we could piece together the information in the Old Testament and it will seem like a script is being followed.
    Mat 1:1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:
    Mat 1:2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.
    Mat 1:3 Judah was the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez was the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram.
    Mat 1:4 Ram was the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon.
    Mat 1:5 Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab, Boaz was the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse.
    Mat 1:6 Jesse was the father of David the king. David was the father of Solomon by Bathsheba who had been the wife of Uriah.
    Mat 1:7 Solomon was the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asa.
    Mat 1:8 Asa was the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah.
    Mat 1:9 Uzziah was the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah.
    Mat 1:10 Hezekiah was the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amon, and Amon the father of Josiah.
    Mat 1:11 Josiah became the father of Jeconiah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.
    Mat 1:12 After the deportation to Babylon: Jeconiah became the father of Shealtiel, and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel.
    Mat 1:13 Zerubbabel was the father of Abihud, Abihud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor.
    Mat 1:14 Azor was the father of Zadok, Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud.
    Mat 1:15 Eliud was the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob.
    Mat 1:16 Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.
    Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon to the Messiah, fourteen generations.
    Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
    Mat 1:19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
    Mat 1:20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
    Mat 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
    Mat 1:22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
    Mat 1:23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
    Mat 1:24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
    Mat 1:25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

    January 23, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • Athy

      Looks like a telephone directory.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:49 am |
    • tallulah13

      I guess when you are telling a tall tale, it makes it seem real when you put in a bunch of names. I've seen this sort of thing before in other mythologies.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:54 am |
    • Navin R. Johnson

      The new phone book is here! The new phone book is here!

      January 24, 2013 at 12:59 am |
    • Bob

      When you understand that the book of Isaiah was written 800 years before the birth of Jesus and gives testimony to His birth and how and from where He was to be born you begin to realize one of the miracles that God performed. This being achieved through thousands of years with precision. He told us before it happened the so that we could see and understand the times and tides and lives of men are in His hands. Below this are other scriptures that tell of Jesus and if you are interested and do the research you will find that indeed Jesus life, death and resurrection happened just as foretold. All this while fulfilling a promise given to a Shepard and business man Abraham some 45 generations before the birth of the Christ, Jesus our Savior. We are so temporary in the timeline of life, we plan live and die in say a hundred years but Gods plans live on forever, fulfilling what He has spoken so that all generations will know that the promises are not only for ones of old but for us today and even for our children. For God is faithful and able to fulfill all the promises given. What has God promised you? Ask, listen and plan on things God shares with you they will come to pass.
      Isa 53:1-12 (Jesus would come appearing as a simple flesh man, not as the Mighty and Noble Son of God that He truly was)
      Isa 53:1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
      Isa 53:2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
      Isa 53:3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
      Isa 53:4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
      Isa 53:5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.
      Isa 53:6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.
      Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.
      Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
      Isa 53:9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
      Isa 53:10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
      Isa 53:11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.
      Isa 53:12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.
      Gen 3:15, Gen 22:18, Gen 26:4, Gen 49:10, Num 21:6-9, Num 24:17, Duet 18:15, Psm 16:9-10, Psm 22:all, specifically: Psm 22:14-16-18, Psm 132;11, Isa 7:14, Isa 9:6-7, Isa 40:10-11, Isa 50:6, Isa 52:13-15, Isa 53:all, Isa 60:21, Jer 23:5, Jer 33:14-15, Ezek 34:23, Ezek 37:25, Dan 9:25, Mic 5:2, Mic 7:20, Zech 6:12, Zech 9:9, Zech 9:10, Zech 12:8-10, Zech 13:7, Mal 3:1-4, Mal 4:2-6.

      January 24, 2013 at 7:00 am |
    • David8582

      @Bob

      Note that there are two genealogies of Jesus. One in Luke 3:23 – 38. A second in Matthew 1:1- 17.
      The two genealogies are not the same. They both struggle to make Jesus a decedent of David.

      You would think the Gospels, being "inspired" by an all knowing, all powerful god, would not make mistakes.

      Jesus was an urban legend.

      Cheers!

      January 24, 2013 at 9:40 am |
  18. Buster

    I'm ready to debate Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss and Stephan Hawkings. If any of you three stooges are out there reading these messages, BRING IT!!!! I'm ready to roll you out like a pancake!!!

    January 23, 2013 at 9:44 pm |
    • Athy

      It's Stephen Hawking, not Stephan Hawkings. And you're willing to debate these people? Go play in the kiddie pool, genius.

      January 23, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • sam stone

      buster, dawkins would tear you apart

      January 24, 2013 at 9:16 am |
    • sam stone

      Of course, buster brown can roll Dawkins out like a pancake. That's why he is an anonymous name on an internet blog getting his uppity a$$ handed to him. What hubris

      January 24, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • Theta

      Buster -Go get 'em

      January 24, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • Moore

      buster , Why not?!? roll out the pancakes ;)

      January 24, 2013 at 9:32 am |
    • Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III

      Lol. Balderdash, Chad. I'm sure you won't fair any better than D'Souza & Hutchinson did recently:

      http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/upcoming-debates/item/728-science-refutes-god

      January 24, 2013 at 9:35 am |
    • NII

      Archie,
      the word is fare not "fair".

      January 24, 2013 at 9:42 am |
    • David8582

      @Buster

      I'm not fit to carry the shoes of either Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss or Stephan Hawkings. But, I would be tickled to debate you on Jesus being the savior/ son of god.

      By the way, you should read a few of these gentlemen's books. They are brilliant.

      Cheers!

      Cheers!

      January 24, 2013 at 9:53 am |
  19. Charles S. Miller

    DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE ....AGNOSTIC DYSLEXIC WHO SAT AROUNG ALL DAY WONDERING IF THERE REALLY WAS A......DOG

    January 23, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
    • Athy

      Did you hear about the genius who couldn't use lower-case letters?

      January 23, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
  20. Davy Gravy

    "One's beliefs do not necessarily have anything to do with the truth." -Anonymous
    Romans 14:11
    For it is written:“As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”

    January 23, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
    • sam stone

      Nothing more convincing than a cut and paste, that's for sure

      January 23, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
    • sam stone

      the quote not necessarily having anything to do with the truth

      January 23, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • Davy Gravy

      Actually, the Bible verse was of course a 'cut and paste." However, the quote was my own. It is no longer anonymous. : )

      January 23, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
    • sam stone

      both were quotes, davy

      January 23, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I love it when people try to use the bible as proof that the bible is true. Epic fail.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:55 am |
    • End Religion

      For it is written: "No member of mankind's pantheon ever existed."

      January 25, 2013 at 6:47 am |
    • sam stone

      ER: "my god is better than yours" is the refrain of the True Believers and the truly delusional. pardon the redundancy

      January 25, 2013 at 8:00 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.