CNN's Randi Kaye talks to the Very Rev. Gary Hall, dean of the Washington National Cathedral, about the national church's decision to host same-sex weddings.
CNN Belief: Washington National Cathedral to wed same-sex couples
Where does the Bible say that being gay is still an abomination, but eating lobster and Alaskan King crab is okay now?
"Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."......Now craw back into your mothers womb, ob. You're gonna wish you were never born.
So you are still stumped.
Actually, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus clearly says that the Old Rules are in place in every last detail until after heaven and earth both perish, and then proceeds to make them even stricter (including, interestingly, forbidding making public shows of your religion).
He never explained how heaven is going to perish, unless he was just using an exaggeration to say "never."
Ah, the babble says just about anything anyone wants it to say.
Gay is bad, but lobster and king crab taste good, and seasfood is a billion dollar a year industry that many religious people profit from.
If being gay every turned profitable where fundies make money off it, then it will suddenly be ok too.
They already do profit from it. You see, religious businesses do not turn away gay money. In California after Prop 8, it turned out that many business owners who regularly ran "gay nights" and other things to draw in gay money turned around and supported anti-gay legislation.
Exploit and repress: it's the christian way.
You didn't answer the question, Rodriguez. Answer the WHOLE question from Observer.
Are you also going to quote where the Bible said to kill unruly kids?
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Stumped is when ob divorced his boyfriend. He cut off his own head.
1 Corinthians 10:27
If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
If heaven is a fairy story, is go-d too ?
Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says – CNN ...
May 17, 2011 – By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen ...
That's a stretch, RB. Do you really interpret Matthew there to be discussing food at all? And for Corinthians, that looks like a lesson in etiquette. Is that the best you can come up with?
I would have to disagree. God, heaven, and hell are real. Hawking needs to agree with God.
Corinthians also says: (I Corinthians 7:1-2) "It is good for a man not to have s-xual relations with a woman"
So what was your point? It's just ONE MAN'S opinion and not the direct word of God.
@RB Have hyou ever been to tghe doctor?
Simple blood test will tell you what % of Neanderthal is in your DNA
Origin of Life no religions needed.
They just want $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and votes
NOVA: Decoding Neanderthals – PBS Pressroom
NOVA: Decoding Neanderthals. Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 9:00-10:00 p.m. ET. Check your local listings. Decoding Neanderthals Ep Main. Find out what
Oops thumb got in the way should be the, not tghe
RB, please provide us with your proof that god (feel free to pick any one of the alleged gods), heaven and hell are real. Or admit that you suffer from delusions, and are mentally ill, or that you are a liar, or both.
From Matthews gospel, Jesus was talking about eating with unwashed hands, the point being it isn’t what you put in that defiles you it is what comes out of your mouth that defiles you. With your mouth you speak what is in your heart.
From the letter to the Corinthians Paul was telling them not to eat anything sacrificed to idols but anything else was ok.
Forget the h too in front of you, all thumbs today.
Corinthians also says: (I Corinthians 7:1-2) "It is good for a man not to have s-xual relations with a woman"
So what was your point? It's just ONE MAN'S opinion and not the direct word of God......." That's not Peter's conclusion. Bet you don't like him either........."2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
You asked where does it say it is still an abomination.
“Just one man” is your opinion of Paul. God obviously had a much higher opinion of him, to allow him to write a large portion of the NT.
What would the % have to do with anything?
0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls,
The proof is offered on an individual basis. I have mine but I can’t give it to you. I can tell you how to get yours if you’re really interested.
Come on have you ever been to the doctor ?
RB, please proceed with educating us unbelievers.
Sure, I went the other day and got my flu shot.
0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls,
You must be born again.
Are you also going to quote where the Bible said to kill unruly kids?"............The gubmint god sure didn't know how to handle the CT shooter.
According to the show that is on PBS it tracks your DNA genome to where cross breeding took place
In Fact I have had our family tree done, over 80 people in our tree. National Geographic Genome Project 2.0
"0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls sayz,
RB, please proceed with educating us unbelievers."..........If the Spirit doesn't reach you by the scripture, you are toast.
0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls,
That is it. You must be born again. In order to be born again, believe God, agree with him that you are sinner, believe that Jesus was crucified and rose again to obtain your forgiveness, ask him to forgive and save you, trust him, and you will be born again.
That is interesting, but other than the novelty of it, why do you think it is necessary?
So, as expected, you have to believe to believe. Yet another manifestation of the circular illogic of religion. In other words, you, nor any other believer, has any poof for any of your beliefs. Again, you are mentally ill, liars, or both.
Well that is why it (ID/creationism) is illeagl to teach in public schools in the US.
According to PBS NOVA it well tell you how much APE is in your DNA which doesn't lie. DNA puts people in Jail.
So are you saying that God believes ""It is good for a man not to have s-xual relations with a woman"?
Thanks for getting a flu shot.
How do you think that flu shot came about ?
0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls,
I may well be mentally ill according to your standards, but I am not being dishonest in any way. I have had personal experiences with God. I don’t know what it means to not believe. I have had doubts, but in the end they just increased my faith.
This is not a compet.ition, I am not telling you this to get one up, I know God judges sin from personal experience. He means business. I can not give you proof, that is God’s work. We sow the seed of his word, he gives the increase. You can give yourself a much better opportunity to receive faith by hearing his word preached by the power of the holy spirit. Have you ever attended church?
I don’t care whether they teach ID in school, but I do wish they would teach the Bible.
As literature, RB? Or as fact?
@rb you said
That is interesting, but other than the novelty of it, why do you think it is necessary? Cross breeding.
SE_X to evolve maybe!
with out it SE_X we DIE off.
What about Stem cells?
Has it ever occurred to you that a being who could create everything you perceive, could have used similar methods to create all the animals?
Many years of forced indoctrination, none of which ever made sense. There is no proof for any god and no logical reason, in this day, to believe in any god. While I must admit there is a non-zero probability that some god exists somewhere in the universe, believers must also admit there is a non-zero probability that no god exists. I'm going with no gods that have any interest in anyone or anything on Earth.
Some can, some can’t.
I like science, doctors, medicine, & etc. I am happy that God gave men the intelligence to do these things.
Take the bile up with congress it lost with creationism they go hand in hand that means the bible is not a FACT !!!
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
I believe it is fact, but what someone else would determine will between them and God.
Some of God’s creation had s.e.x. with other of Gods creation. He told them to be fruitful, multiply, and replenish the earth.
Then you wish in vain, Robby. The Babble isn't fact. It will never be taught as such, nor should it be.
0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls,
I know he exists and I hope he gives you the opportunity to know him too. I am sorry you had a bad experience and were forced to go to church. I think kids do better if you ask them if they would like to go.
I know who rules the nations of the earth and I also know who overrules their ruler.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
There is lot’s of really good stuff in there. We were a lot kinder and gentler nation when it was taught in school.
How do you *know* he exists? I contend you know no such thing – that due to peer pressure and/or brain issues, you want to believe. Without verifiable, independent, objective and factual evidence, you know nothing – you simply believe for no good reason.
Well Iam sure glad the courts haved rulled on the issue.
Children NEED facts.
New science standards created by 26 states (majority) for 2013 STEM.
By the way they (science) found the origin of LIFE peer reviewed DEC 20 2012
Baloney. I started school in the 60s. We had to recite the Lord's Prayer every day. The Bible wasn't "taught" at all. If you think that the only thing that changed in the decade that followed was that enforced prayer ended in public schools, Robert, you must have been in a coma. What world are you living in? The school I went to in the 60s was all white, save for two kids. Even my high school was white by more than 99%. Mothers didn't work, for the most part. They stayed home. No computers; no social media. Do you REALLY think that but for the teaching of Christianity, nothing has changed since then? Were you asleep during Watergate, Vietnam, the Watts riots, the civil rights movement, women's liberation, and all the other upheavals and changes in our society since then? And you really think teaching the Bible is going to do what? Make all that disappear?
that about not lying
0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls,
I wish I knew how to describe the Holy Spirit to you in words, but I can’t. God’s Holy Spirit visited me in a powerful way just a few hour ago. I know it because I experienced it. If you ever experience it for yourself you will know why I believe and you will believe too. You said you can’t be absolutely sure there is no God, why not find a good church and find out for yourself?
I found the origin of life over 30 years ago and it have been peer reviewed for thousands of years.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
No, you are correct, it won’t disappear, but I do believe it would knock a dent in it. We are probably close in age. I was really referring to our parents and grandparents generations when the bible was taught in school.
0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls
If there was proof of God that did not require faith the Bible would finally be proven wrong. That is what you hope for yet it would prove your irrational belief wrong. Your belief is wrong if faith in God does in fact reveal the reality of God. Your belief is wrong if believers are right and your belief is wrong if believers are wrong. Right or wrong believers will be proven correct about God. Right or wrong atheists will be proven incorrect. Are you sure you want proof of God?
Tell me again how atheism is logical or rational?
Robert, much as a sympathize with your wish for a more humane, kind, and gentle society, your belief that the Bible would make a difference is nothing but wishful thinking. Life was not really gentler or kinder then. It was just as it has always been: short and brutish. We live in better times now than anyone decades ago could have imagined: we are healthier, we live longer, we are better educated, we have more opportunities to succeed regardless of our race or gender.
Sorry, not going back there to the 20s and 30s.
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
@RB have a great DAY Glad it CREATIONISM is illegal to teach in public schools. we need to evolve .
Just like the flu shot you got . evolved from a chicken egg. Be thankful GO_D DID NOT create the man or woman
that made the flu shot .
Had to cancel email messed up sorry for the delay
By the way I have a wheelbarrow full of meteorites !
Robert Brown, don't obfuscate the primary prenuptials with rasberries. Often, the pertinent cat presents fabled necessities in the parking chamfer. Realize your net precedent. Triangulate! Save the best for the alligators. Ever the bastille notches the orchestra but Wendy is not green and horses will capitulate. Filter out the log from the turnstile and cry prevalently.
So there brown stare. Feed your inner walnut and resolve. Subject your lemon to the ingenious door in the presence of snow and animals. Aisle 7 is for the monetary cheese whiz. Faced with the kitchen, you may wish to prolong the sailboat in the cliff. Otherwise, rabbits may descend on your left nostril. Think about how you can stripe the sea.
Regale the storm to those who (6) would thump the parrot with the armband. Corner the market on vestiges of the apparent closure but seek not the evidential circumstance. Therein you can find indignant mountains of pigs and apples. Descend eloquently as you debate the ceiling of your warning fulcrum. Vacate the corncob profusely and and don’t dote on the pancreas.
Next up, control your wood. Have at the cat with your watch on the fore. Aft! Smarties (12)! Rome wasn’t kevetched in an autumn nightie. (42) See yourself for the turntable on the escalator. Really peruse the garage spider definitely again again with brown. Now we have an apparent congestion, so be it here. Just a moment is not a pod of beef for the ink well nor can it be (4) said that Karen was there in the millpond.
Garbage out just like the candle in the kitty so. Go, go, go until the vacuum meets the upward vacation. Sell the yellow. Then trim the bus before the ten cheese please Louise. Segregate from the koan and stew the ship vigorously.
And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.
Yes, I think I remember that Matthew passage being about what Sam mentioned. But that just brings up the whole point of different interpretation. This is where I left off with Topher when he had to leave. The subject of interpretation. Early Christians started dividing over interpretation, over how the Bible was being assembled. With all the different sects that exist in the world today, how in the world does any one of them expect anyone else to think that the Bible in its current form is the word of the God of Israel, or the God of Anything?
In a similar vein to mama k's question, how it is that a purportedly omnipotent being ( as Christian "god" is claimed to be) couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it, regarding basic biology and genetics, and other areas of science and also history?
Furthermore, why should we believe what some sky creature purportedly put in a musty old book for some ancient goatherders? Why can't your "god" get with the times and push some tweets out, or even get with the last decade and produce his own website?
On those grounds alone, a deity should expect reasonable doub and help to clear it with modern methods, to say the least, rather than punish it as Christian god is claimed to. Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourselves there, Christians, that can't even do basic stuff on the web that even kids can do.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
Oh, I think it would help some. What would make a real difference is if more would believe in God and agree with him.
Thanks, I hope you have a great day too. Some things are always changing and adapting, some things don’t. I am thankful God gave us the intelligence to make things like flu shots, whether some recognize it or not.
reasonable *doubt* – I'll buy a "t"...
You religionists need to find the dolt(s) who told you that personal experience was a good form of evidence and give him/her/them a good smack across the face.
What is your diagnosis?
Robert, your nasty sky fairy makes demands like these, so no thanks:
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
mama k & Bob,
If you are still on in about 15 check back, I have to run for few minutes.
Science has found HOPE !
we are hard wired from day1 for hope. Dotors are learning also.
I think it is a miracle that we have the bible today. How else could it have survived? The folks who put it together did consider lots of texts and eliminated some that were contrary to the bulk of them. Sadly, some of the ones they eliminated are lost, others have been found again in recent years and we can see why they were left out. I trust they did a good job.
There are a lot of denominations of Christianity. Some say others are incorrect or theirs is the only one that has it right and is going to heaven. I really don’t know a lot about the various ones. I have attended Baptist, Presbyterian, and Methodist churches. All of those preach that Jesus is the son of God, he was crucified, buried, and rose again, to obtain forgiveness of our sins. Jesus said you must be born again. I think a lot of the differences in interpretations and denominations are minor, but some are deal breakers for me. For example, any interpretation that denies the deity of Christ or the power of God is in error in my opinion, without Christ there is no gospel. There is a lot of debate over freewill and predestination. I won’t argue either of those because I just don’t know, but why would he say “For God so loved the world” if he just meant certain ones, sounds like he meant the whole world, everybody in the world.
Some say there are new revelations, I believe we have it all, so anybody that comes along and says they have a new way, has been deceived by the enemy, in my opinion. There is just one God and one Gospel. John was the last prophet, the apostles were the only apostles, and revelations was the last revelation. Galatians 1: 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
That is real good Bob, us real smart humans can make a computer and communicate with each other. Maybe one day we can create our own universe and make critters and communicate with them via www.
The truth will set you…..
As far as your second post, I answered those for you in good faith at least twice and you spouted more rubbish. Why should I bother again?
The bible is surely the Truth....the last days are definitely upon us when u see gay marriages...abortions...murders of every sort...everything that is contrary to sound doctrine taking place and people loving the lies they are being told by these false ministers who are nothing but workers of satan...the only reason people embrace these lies is because they know God is gonna judge them and they want their consciences soothed....so they heap for themselves false teachers to tell them what their itching ears want to hear because they no longer want truth....
The Bible NEVER mentions abortion. Why not read it so you don't have to pretend what it says?
When a lass purposely aborts, she cuts off her own head, the hubby. She then kills the child and steals the child's inheritance. Not very bright to play act when it comes to marital relations.
And still not your business, lolligag.
You givin' me a pass on supportin' the judges, tuti?
there is monumentally more mayhem in the bible than is occurring now. Just the flood itself purports to empty the planet of all life aside from Ark sailors. Absurd and a fraud, but you believe, and so if wacky nonsensical violence is the sign you're looking for, end times came and went. The Rapture happened and you missed it.
You Jesus cultists have been saying this since the time of Nero.
Waaah! Not everyone shares my morals! Therefore, the whole world needs to burn! Waaah!!
It is no longer a cathedral if it cannot follow the word of God as written in the Bible, call it something else.
Your biblical interpretations of the bible apply only to yourself. It's cathedral if their church wants to call it that.
It is better known as Washington National Gay Haven
Erstwhile Cathedral now a house of abomination!
Skip the hypocrisy. Your chuch probably lets in people with tatttos or the MILLIONS of Christian adulterers.
A church is a haven for sinners who are called to repentance, taught the word of God, encouraged to live a Godly life, a church does not endorse sins. Get it?
Churches, like people, pick the sins the oppose and ignore the rest. That's why you see all the hypocrites who oppose gay marriage, but support adultery through divorce and remarriage (unless the previous spouse already was an adulterer).
if a church didn't endorse sin it wouldn't be full of bibles.
"OMG, it's full of Bibles!"
To all the people who fear that marriage equality for Gay couples will mean their churches will be "forced" to provide weddings for those couples, here are some things to remember:
1: None of the legal benefits of marriage come from the church, they come from government.
2: Couples have never needed a church's approval to obtain a marriage license.
3: Churches will never be compelled to provide ceremonies for Gay couples, any more than they are compelled to provide ceremonies for Atheist or Jewish or Muslim couples.
4: While most churches will probably be unwilling to cater to Gay couples, there are plenty of churches that are more welcoming. On the happiest day of their lives, no Gay couple will be interested in having a wedding in a place where they are met with hostility. Fortunately the Episcopal Church welcomes Gay couples.
Don't capitalize gay. It's not a proper noun.
Gubmints don't marry people.
Try getting married without having a license issued by the state, you moron. Oh, wait. You can't get married unless someone wants to be chained to you and nobody would agree to that, loll.
Hark, a bully from Sodom speaketh.
Nope. Just someone who is smarter than you are, dolt.
tuti, it's obvious your hubby is smarter than you. The time you spend on here hara*ssing Christians is time you're not hara*ssing him. However his wisdom is highly unlikely to meet God's approval and is only a short term solution. The real solution is to keep you on a shorter leash.
You're the one being kept on a leash, honey. Trouble for you is, I'm the one holding the other end.
Go ahead, take the bait again.
Trying to think of uses for a dead qu eer. Come to think of it there are no uses for a live one. Qu eers the people who gave AIDS to the world.
Skip the world-class HYPOCRISY.
Any real Christian knows that Jesus said NOTHING bad about gays.
Read the Bible sometime so you know what you are talking about.
I think you're correct, Observer. But more and more, I'm starting to agree with the people that say pervy here is the "best recruiter atheism could ever have". Of course, I suppose pervy could be a homophobic atheist or non-Christian, but either way, it continues to dig its own hole.
Actually research has proven it came out of Africa from STRAIGHTS who used prosti'tutes, when the Congo highway was constructed. It was an inevitable development. Gays or no gays.
The only reason ANY law is in the Bible, is because it existed in the culture when it was written. There is NOTHING unique in the Bible which did not exist in it's culture at the time it was written 100% by humans. It is a human book. That's all. Cultures develop.
best recruiter atheism could ever have
My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. The potential with this is endless. This is what I do Rich45.ℂOM
That B should be a J and you're missing an f.
Interesting this church says it's OK, but their denomination still says marriage is between a man and a woman.
Interesting that religious people continue to believe in invisible super-buddies despite a complete and absolute lack of evidence.
CHristians disagreeing on their shared supersi.tion is not surprising in the least.
Interesting that you are still and always completely clueless, Gopher.
There's enough evidence for millions around the globe to believe. So the question is, why don't you believe it?
There's enough delusion for millions around the globe to believe.
Notice the delusions people believe in are radically different.
There a sufficient lack of evidence for millions to have stopped believing.
There's a sufficient lack of agreement on the meaning of the bible's words to cause a huge cathedral in the nation's capital to tell people like you, Gopher, to go suck it.
So full of the language of naughty children, yet so empty of anything of substance. Dude, when are you going to add something to the discussion?
Already have. Go read my responses to you on the Hobby Lobby thread, honey.
Oh, you mean about gay marriage? No need. I doubt any priest who's in the august position of working at the National Cathedral cares what some craft-store shopping cretin thinks about what marriages it has decided it will officiate.
But I'll be sure to pass on your opinion to any of them who ask me.
Just more name calling. Nothing of substance. How old are you?
Older than you are and wiser by a country mile, Gopher.
Nobody at the National Cathedral needs the permission of some country bumpkin who fell off the turnip truck yesterday to interpret the word of God.
Get another hobby-horse, Craft-boy.
Why is interpretation needed? The scriptures are clear.
Oh, sure. As long as everyone believes as you do, they're crystal clear.
Why didn't your God give you a friggin' brain, you boob?
Simple blood test will tell you what % of APE is in your DNA Have a great day
NOVA: Decoding Neanderthals – PBS Pressroom
NOVA: Decoding Neanderthals. Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 9:00-10:00 p.m. ET. Check your local listings. Decoding Neanderthals Ep Main. Find out what
Goober the Gopher thinks that the priests at the National Cathedral are violating God's word. I'd like to see Gopher compose a missive to theme and copy it right here, along with any response he gets, including hysterical laughter.
It's been clear for the past 2000 years. Why suddenly isn't it clear?
Topher, you interpret the scriptures too, the lie you tell yourself that you don't is part of your personal delusion.
Hahahhhaa! "It's been clear for the past 2000 years. Why suddenly isn't it clear?"
Clear to whom, you glue-sniffing Mod-Podger? It's only "clear" when others agree with what YOU think it says. When others disagree with YOUR view, they're simply wrong.
No wonder you and your wife don't have s#x.
The Bible says that marriage is REQUIRED for any virgin who gets ra-ped. How nice.
The wisdom of Solomon included ONE THOUSAND wives.
Blessed are the Cheesemakers
"Topher, you interpret the scriptures too ..."
Very true. Many of us disagree on minor issues — thus denominations. But major issues — like sins — have been agreed upon across denominations since the time of Christ. When there's differences on major issues what you have is a church outside of orthodoxy and thus not a part of Christ's church.
The fact that the National Cathedral isn't seeking your approval puts the lie to that statement, Gopher boy.
That church should not seek my approval, so your repeated statements on that is whispering in the wind. The only approval it should seek is that of God's and not of any man's. Pastors are going to be held to that much higher of a standard on Judgment Day, so they better be teaching God's word and not just what man wants him to teach.
Ra-pe victims MUST marry the rapist.
And you support that. Pathetic.
That's not part of the new covenant. So I reject your statement.
Topher, I notice the Episcopal church as a woman as its top bishop. Can a woman rise to an equivalent level in your church?
Topher, I thought the Bible says that your god never changes. That being the case please explain why he changed his mind with the "New Covanent"?
It's the SAME GOD that did that.You supported it. You said so.
Yes, "unchanging" God did change his mind.
Hey, mama. My personal church is independent and not under a large governing body, so we don't have similar positions.
Good question, dude! It's true, God never changes. But the covenant did. We didn't keep the covenant. We are the ones who broke it. Under the new covenant, I think it's fair to say we can't break it. We either accept what is offered and get what we don't deserve or we reject it and are given what we do deserve.
But Topher, could a woman rise to the top position in your church, and would that be OK with you?
Now when did the new covenant go into effect, Topher – the one that you say now probably is good to go till the end of time?
In my denomination, no I don't think one would become a pastor, but there are many denominations that have women pastors. I even personally know a few of them. It's one of those minor issues we don't all agree on.
"Good question, dude! It's true, God never changes. But the covenant did."
That is contradictory. your god changed his offer, so your god changed. You did not answer the question, you just changed the words and confirmed the paradox.
Jesus Christ is the new covenant. He paid for your sins on the cross so you don't have to. All the work is now finished. Remember what John the Baptist said when he first saw Jesus? "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." That's why we no longer sacrifice. Under the old covenant, we had to sacrifice to cover our sins until the Messiah came. Under the new covenant, God's lamb has already been sacrificed for you. It's a wonderful gift!
'minor issue' – right. I know as a woman being considered a lesser being than a man is just a 'minor issue'.
That's not fair. I never said a woman is less than a man. I would say, however, that we have different roles to fill.
I'm sure the priests at the Nat Cat are just shaking in their shoes, Gopher.
What an arrogant moron you are. Do you think these priests are ignorant of Scripture? Less well-versed in religious scholarship than YOU are? Not remotely possible.
Get off your high horse, you sanctimonious twerp. You are the most effective deterrent to anyone's search for God I've seen, other than Chard.
Oh, yeah. I can just imagine how those "roles" would "differ." Women would remain barefoot and pregnant, with a kid hanging off each boob and men would get to tell them to make another sammich.
OK, Topher, about the Covenant. So, as a Christian, in your view, are we to ignore anything from OT as the word of God unless Jesus specifically talked about it?
is the church's "new covenant" a reinterpretation of the "old covenant"?
Right Topher. Your bible says that you get to tell me what to do and I get to shut the f-ck up about it. But hey – that 'role' doesn't make me a lesser person right?
You can take all those OT laws and break them up into 3 categories. Moral laws, priestly laws and laws given to those people at that time. The moral laws (including the 10 Commandments) are still in play. The priestly laws are now fulfilled in Christ (sacrifices and such). Everything else, such as what types of clothes to wear and what you can or can't eat, were given only to those people at that time and are not under the new covenant.
"is the church's "new covenant" a reinterpretation of the "old covenant"?"
I'm not sure what you mean.
Where does it say that?
Oh, brother. YOU said it, Gopher. Why don't you tell us? How are the roles "different?" And who says they are? You? If not you, then where does it say they're different in your Babble, and how?
You still have not addressed the paradox of your god changing his mind. I thought the scripture was perfectly clear? Are you now ready to admit it isn't?
OK, Topher. Now which of those categories does marriage fall under – that is, the explicit restriction of what marriage should be? Also, if you haven't already, to better answer in a way that I can understand, you may want to listen to Gary Hall's video commentary above for this article.
There is a significant difference in roles between men and women. When having s ex to produce offspring the man provides sperm and the woman provides eggs. After, if successful, the woman carries the baby. That is the only difference in roles between men and women.
Morality. Not only does the OT call a man lying with a man an abomination, but it is addressed in the NT by Jesus as well as several places outside of the gospels. The good news is that with repentance and faith, even people who have committed this sin can go to Heaven. More wonderful news!
I've watched most of the video. Is there something specific that is said you want me to address?
If you are not going to address my "great question" about the paradox of your scriptue you need to stop saying that the "scripture is perfectly clear". That is dishonest.
I did address it. God isn't any different. He did not change. He changed the covenanent.
So Topher you're saying that ALL the moral laws from the OT are still in play and if Jesus didn't address it specifically, then he put his stamp of approval on them – is that right?
Why can't they teach your hogwash in public schools in the US, I do not see it inb the books anywhere????
How OLD is the Earth topher ???
Topher: "but it is addressed in the NT by Jesus as well as several places outside of the gospels."
OK, let's take a look at those. Where would those be?
All moral laws are still in play whether Jesus addressed it or not.
Topher, you have previously agreed that you have no evidence for your god. Why are you lying now?
The bible is quite clear that women should submit to men and that women are to be silent at church. It is clear about both.
"OK, let's take a look at those. Where would those be?"
For Jesus' views, read Mark 10 ... Here's part of it ... but you should really start a few verses before this to get the entire perspective ... "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Topher: "All moral laws are still in play whether Jesus addressed it or not."
But I thought you said the only thing that mattered was the new convenant?
Topher saying god is unchanging but changes his mind is just confirming the paradox, it is not addressing the question....AND you lack of an "answer" just proves the scripture is NOT perfectly clear.
Topher you do this all the time. When presented with a difficult question you propose some garbage answer and then claim the answer should be acceptable. You seem like a nice enough guy but that type of dishonest answer is exactly why I have rejected your religion and others should do the same.
Topher is confused by a mistranslation in the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus says he has not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. As the context clearly shows, Jesus was saying that the old laws are always goin to be in force, and he is making them fuller, but people like Topher misunderstand it to mean "to end it". Which of course makes no sense at all in context, because it means Jesus said "I am not here to end the laws but to end them."
Mistranslation. Inability to understand the entire context. Looking for excuses to say the Bible says what it doesn't say.
So, Gopher, do you wear polyester and cotton blends? Eat shellfish?
The moral laws are part of the new covenant. Sorry if I'm not being clear.
Read what you said: "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.". So NO DIVORCING.
Christian HYPOCRITES gripe about gay marriage, but divorce is LEGAL in all 50 states. Keep the hypocrisy alive. Well done.
And now Topher will play "run and died". . .
run and hide. . .
There is no new covenant. There is only an expansion of the old covenants. All the old rules still apply. Jesus is explicit on that.
Glad your hogwash is illegal to teach in public schools in the US
We feed the chipmunk daily we have it in the cage hiding under the dunce cap.
I disagree that God changed. We broke the covenant we made with Him. So He gave us a different one. I don't see how this means He changed. Also don't forget that God knew what would happen all along and that Jesus Christ was the plan from the beginning. More evidence God didn't change. I'm sorry you don't like my answer, but it is theologically correct. But dude, don't just listen to me ... read the Bible itself and see what it says for itself.
OK, Topher, there obviously seems to be some disagreement over Jesus' words regarding someone leaving home and taking on a wife. Now did Jesus discuss same-sex relations somewhere?
"So NO DIVORCING."
I agree. There's very little Biblical support for divorce.
And yes, we are hypocrites. Not just on this issue, either. But this again shows the Bible knows what it is talking about. It says none of us are good. But you know what is good about churches full of hypocrites? There's always room for one more. :)
"It says none of us are good."
You get points for being honest, more so than many Christians.
The real problem is that the normal position of many Christans is to say "Yes, we are all sinners. Now let's forget me, my family and friends, and talk about those nasty gay sins". That's where all the HYPOCRISY comes in.
You are ignoring my point Topher. There is no new covenant or different covenant. I proved clearly and conclusively that Jesus left every last old law in place. There is absolutely no biblical support for your assertions that they were repealed or replaced. Mixed fibers and shellfish are still an abomination, and mandatory execution of rebellious teendagers is still God's law.
Well, there's a couple answers for this. First, that passage I gave you from Mark is talking about that. He is very specific that a man takes a wife. Not a man "takes another" or some generic terms.
Second, we hold that Jesus wrote the entire Bible, thus He is also speaking when it's talked about in 1 Timothy and 1 Corinthians. I think it's in Revelation, too, but I'll have to look that one up.
****The moral laws are part of the new covenant. Sorry if I'm not being clear.****
The perfect unchanging law giver changed the law, and therefore changed his mind, but he himself did not change. This is the type of contradiction Topher, and christianity, askes us to accept.....and then Topher says the scripture is "perfectly clear". If the old testament god expects us to accept these "answers" or he will burn us in hellfire, than you are right Topher, your god hasn't changed, he is the same asshat he always was.
OK, so Topher so you're saying that even though God has always given men free will, that the men who physically wrote the Bible, in this case, were not actually in control of their thoughts that led them to express their ideas about the Bible in writing, and also not just "inspired", but that Jesus' spirit took over and moved their writing utensils for them?
"we hold that Jesus wrote the entire Bible"
Are you sure you really want to blame him for supporting slavery and discrimination against women?
We certainly have given ourselves bad names when it comes to this topic. I get it. I'm probably just as guilty. I have to remind myself, and other Christians should too, that I've sinned against God and deserve Hell just as much as someone who has committed a hom.ose.xual sin. I've lied. (All liars will have their part in the lake of fire.) I've stolen things, disobeyed my parents, looked with lu.st, not made God the most important thing in my life ... and even made a God to suit myself. In fact, I've broken all 10 Commandments. But as a society, we tend to think these things aren't so bad. And between each other, they might not be. But that is making the mistake of thinking God's standards are at the same level as ours when it is so much higher.
I admit this one can be a bit difficult to comprehend. The authors had free will and kept their own personalities and writing styles, but that they wrote exactly what God wanted them to write. No, God did not "move the pen" for them. They still had their own personalities and styles (which would explain things like spelling errors and later, copy errors.) One of the better analogies I've heard goes like this. Whom do you give credit as author to, your friend who wrote the letter, or the pencil he used? You give it to the friend because it was his thoughts, but the pencil had a chip in the lead so that its marks weren't perfectly smooth but did still transmit the message as the friend intended.
Just remember that your version of god's standards apply only to you. A gay person who is not part of such a religion has done nothing wrong.
If god knew what was going to happen and some dude named jesus was the plan, why did god screw around with all the intermediate drama and killing? Looks more like a manmade plan under constant revision 'cause none of the claims about god ever work out as forecast.
".......desrve Hell as much as someone who has committed a hom.ose-xual sin." Yet, oggly, only the behavior of gay people is the target of Christians in the arena of secular law. Gee, I wonder why ?
It come a no surprise that Topher confuses form and content.
"Just remember that your version of god's standards apply only to you. A gay person who is not part of such a religion has done nothing wrong."
Not quite true. If the God of the Bible is true, that person has sinned whether they believe in God or not.
I respect you for your honesty and being objective here. We need to see more of that from all sides on here.
If your religion has made your life better, then don't use it to make someone's life worse.
Doesn't this all come back full circle, though, Topher? Some men assembled some writings, much of which has unknown authorship a couple thousand years ago. I'm pretty sure Christians started dividing over interpretation and over which writings were to go into the NT before it was assembled into the format that we all know it as today. How do we know that the gospel of Mark is the one that Mark would have preferred if he were here to review them?
"I respect you for your honesty and being objective here. We need to see more of that from all sides on here."
Thank you. I appreciate you being able to hold an adult conversation on this topic. It's my favorite subject and I love to talk about it.
"If your religion has made your life better, then don't use it to make someone's life worse."
It's certainly not my intention to make someone's life worse. I think it will make it better in the long-run. True, things may be hard in this life, but you get to spend eternity with God in Heaven. You can't do better than that.
Topher: you said you have broken all ten commandments. So you are a murderer?
I can appreciate that question. True, we don't always know for certain who the authors are, but we can make pretty good guesses as to who they are. For instance, John never names himself as the author of that Gospel. In fact, we lists every other apostle by name and the 12th as only "the apostle whom Jesus loved." But there's other things to lead us to believe it was John.
As far as teachings and "interpretations" ... that happened while Paul still lived. In fact, that what most of his letters are about ... correcting errors and teaching the churches were making. We tend to think we know better than God or that "surely God didn't mean that" and so change the meaning of texts to make them fit how we want them to. But that's a mistake. We need to take God's word as He meant it, not how we want to interpret it.
As far as to what decisions were made on what went into the collection of books ... there was a test to discover which books were from God and which weren't. I wish I had time to get into that more. And we know the versions of the Bible we have now are the same as the originals because we have so many early copies. I think we've talked about that before.
Also, so no one claims I'm going to "run away" ... I'm leaving for church in about a half hour.
"It's my favorite subject and I love to talk about it."
Until you start ignoring uncomfortable questions.
"Topher: you said you have broken all ten commandments. So you are a murderer?"
Oh, yes! Jesus said if you are angry with someone, you have committed murder in your heart. You see, that's how high God's standard is ... He even knows/will judge your thought-life. Same thing applies to adultery. Jesus said you don't have to do the act, just think about it and you're guilty.
That's enought time to tell us about how you killed someone. I'm intrigued.
No problem, Topher, and thank you for being frank and taking the time. I didn't actually need to dwell on the aspects of assembly. My point what that different Christians already started having a lot of disagreement with one another during that time, and ever since.
You're an odd one.
No response to me. Shocking. I'm sure if I get a response it will be 'the bible doesn't really mean what is says' (except for the stuff that I want it to)
Out of curiousity, why did you ignore my post. It directly related to your position, and is well supported theologically.
"Same thing applies to adultery. Jesus said you don't have to do the act, just think about it and you're guilty."
Thought crimes are the same as actions to your god. That is not a moral being, that is a dictator of the worst magnitude
As I posted my valid question that directly related to (and refuted) his position an hour and a half before Topher said he had to go, and I received no response, I am going to say what he deserves:
Topher ran away.
You are right, Topher will answer only up to the point that he chooses to, he is probably one of the most self deluded and willfully ignorant people I have ever interacted with....but he is a young earth creationist, so it goes with the territory.
"If a bible verse furthers the cause, it is to be taken literally. If a bible verse is detrimental to the cause, it is either: taken out of context; is allegorical; refers to another verse somewhere else; is an ancient cultural anomaly; is a translation or copyist's error; means something other than what it actually says; Is a mystery of god or not discernible by humans; or is just plain magic."
Isn't it interesting that Gopher and his bride have no offspring? Maybe there IS a god.
It's more likely that Topher (what sort of name is that?) is gay and having a wee problem dealing with that reality.
Yeah, I'm of the same mind. I think Topher is deeply in denial and bet he and the little wife aren't exactly in what might be called a "blissful" relationship.
Well Topher I certainly have no god and your god's edicts certainly never apply to me. Thats a certainty n life.
why do we have a national church, its seems like a violation of the first, and can i hold a worship of Athena there or must it just be jesus
It's not actually a national church in that sense, it's just a name (although they may as well be a national church with all the government funding they get).
churches = bastions of ignorance
I understand your position completely, Sam. It was erected under a charter passed by the United States Congress on January 6, 1893 – Teddy R was present. Congress designated it as the "National House of Prayer". They, of course hold services for different faiths, and have secular events there as well.
"why do we have a national church"
See, that's the thing I was referring to in another post here. The "Washington National Cathedral" is an Episcopalian church in Washington D.C.... that's all. It's a nice building, and some people employed by the government go there once in a while. It's no more a "national" church than American Airlines is the U.S. airline, or that "Washington National Bank" (if there is one?) is the 'national' bank.
that the problem churches should not get funding or tax exemption
The best use of a religious building I ever saw was the Geary Temple in San Francisco,a former synagogue which was a venue for hippy bands in the 60s and punk bands in the 70s. A church freaked out about it and bought it, but it went disused (the third best use of a religious building), and eventually was bulldozed (the second best use for a religious building).
The worst use is of course the intended purpose, as an IQ-reducing brainwashing center.
Wow... I did not know about that resolution!
your thinking of a federal reserve
and mamma show me when the Salem witches held a gathering their
other then that it seems they just allow Yahweh worship
Yahweh Allah and Jehovah is the same god that not being secular
Yes it is a shampoo and conditioner, lol.
National house of prayer; and
and an Episcopal church (which include the seat of the presiding bishop)
( which includes )
You lost me, Sam. lol.
I think Ra would have a problem with that....I'll see what Zeus has to say on it...Oh wait I can't. He went fishing with Odin.
That's the same era that determined racial segregation laws were constitutional. Not terribly surprised.
If you're ever in that area, and are into architecture, take the tour. There is a stained glass window there depicting the moon and contains a moon rock sample presented by Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and Michael Collins:
but mama is the a window depicting Hercules wrestling the Nemean Lion,.. or Lugh slinging a rock into Balor eye, or Krishna mom looking into Krishna mouth and seeing the universe, or the Golden goddesses giving the Triforce to Mankind...a reference to some ones post in "Hindu holy book coming to a nightstand near you" it was a good question and i do have friends who are zeldins
I think it's a fairly secular motif for that window if I remember correctly. The description I found starts:
The 'Space Window' was designed by St. Louis artist Rodney Winfield and fabricated under his supervision. Whirling stars and orbiting planets are depicted in orange, red and white on a deep blue and green field. The moon rock, weighing only 7.18 grams was set later in the center of the Space Window, the culmination of more than four years of work and planning by Dr. Paine, Winfield, Dr. Fletcher and Dean Sayre. President Nixon authorized the gift of the . . ."
One bit of trivia. Frederick Hart's "Creation" over the center doors of National Cathedral....This sculpture was used in the film "Devil's Advocate" (resulting in lawsuit by the artist against Warner Bros.).
In the film, the image of the sculpture comes to life and the multitude of naked men and women writhe erotically. This is where Hart had a problem. I struck me as pretty creepy in the film – very effective, actually.
Regarding Hart – Down close to the Lincoln Memorial, one of the most visited monuments in Washington, is Hart’s bronze statue The Three Soldiers, Vietnam Veterans Memorial, dedicated by President Ronald Reagan in 1984. He also has works in the rotunda of the Russell Senate Office Building and in the Strom Thurmond Room of the Capitol Building.
I remember that, mama! Hart, I believe, or perhaps his family, was quite upset by the use of that sculpture in the film.
The bigoted Douglas and pervy seem very upset over this trend of various Christian institutions performing same-sex marriages as soon as it is legal to do so. And we know that more and more states are legalizing gay marriage.
Douglas says "The National Cathedral is nothing but a white-washed sepulchre".
Now I am an agnostic atheist, but I'm pretty sure the National Cathedral is more than Dougie's description in the minds of many. It is also is the seat of both the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church, Katharine Jefferts Schori, and the Bishop of the Diocese of Washington, Mariann Edgar Budde. (Schori is the first woman elected as a primate in the Anglican Communion.)
If you drive from the cathedral several miles out of D.C. (southward), across the Potomac River, past the Cherry blossoms, past the Lincoln Memorial, you'll be in Virginia. Virginia, of course was home to Washington, Madison, Mason, Jefferson, Monroe, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, and Zachary Taylor. Also home to Woodrow Wilson (who is buried at Washington National Cathedral along with Helen Keller, and other notable people).
James Madison (you may have heard me mention his name once or twice), our 4th POTUS and chief architect of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, was the fourth bishop of the Episcopal Church and the first bishop of Virginia. He was consecrated in 1790 by the Archbishop of Canterbury and two other Church of England bishops.
Of course National Cathedral also has traditionally been used for presidential funderals (Eisenhower, Ford and Reagan).
Of course, it was from Washington National Cathedral's Canterbury Pulpit that the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. delivered the final Sunday sermon of his life, just a few days before his assassination. A memorial service for King was held at the cathedral later the same week.
(Just a bit of history for your poor head, Dougie.)
Times have changed, and as usual, religion lags reality (at best).
They are the best recruiters atheism could ever have. I hope they get out on every street corner and scream their views. The world deserves to see the rot under the veneer.
( funerals, not funderals )
What's the matter with funderals, the funerals of fundies? That's a valuable service, and I hope they do more . . .
LOL @Zingo. I was thinking this when I was writing my correction: fundamentalist Evangelicals.
Oh, looks like I still needed to buy an "R", but that's where my mind was.
Correction to my post above:
James Madison, 4th POTUS was not the 4th Bishop of the Episcopal Church. It was his cousin, also named James Madison (also from Virginia; born two years apart; both Episcopals, both supporters of separation of church and state). This cousin who was the 4th Episcopal bishop became the eighth president of the College of William & Mary.
The top three locations for qu eers
1. In a grave preferably with a self inflicted wound and before they have contaminated anyone else.
2. In a maximum security prison preferably in solitary confinement so as not to corrupt honest criminals.
3. In a mental hospital for the criminally insane preferably restrained gagged and in solitary confinement to allow other patients a chance for recovery.
Qu eers the people who brought AIDS on the world.
you are an idiot.
It's always a good day when we get to be entertained by the comedic stylings of the pervert.
Are you the typical CHRISTIAN? Is this what Christianity is all about?
oh, you forgot one:
4) at your house, in the closet, full of self-loathing.
studies show that people with a vicious and deep-seated h.omophobia are usually h.omos.exual themselves.
I agree with bootyfunk. This guy is really just showing us the hate he has for himself because to love himself would be to love that which he despises outwardly. It must be a horrifying existence.
Nothing or nowhere was forgotten, a filthy qu eer has no place on the face of this earth. Because of the diseases qu eers have unleashed on their innocent victims they should all be eliminated. Qu eers the people that gave the world AIDS.
Still waiting to hear: are you a typical Christian?
Pervert alert is obviously in deep denial about his gayness.
thankfully, churches, along with most americans, practice 'christianity light'. thankfully, christians don't follow the bible to the letter. the bible says very clearly that christians are to kill g.ays. it also says to kill disobedient children, non-virgin brides and anyone working the weekend. the bible is disgusting. good to see churches distancing themselves from the bible.
No Christian follows the Bible to the letter. There isn't one Christianity with 2 billion adherents; there are 2 billion Christianities. Because everyone cherry picks and invents their own version. That's what you do with imaginary things like Barbie Dolls and Jesus.
Just like the way little girls make Malibu Barbie and Ballerina Barbie, Christians make Hell-Torture Jesus and Hippy Jesus and Tea Party Jesus. Whatever you want.
What's this? A New Worldwide Bitsie Bootsie Version with the most modern of texts and culture?
Kinda didn't understand what was going on, did, you lolly.
Flattery will get you nowhere.
People who have relations with squid are to be smitten in the knees. And let's not talk about shellfish. If you ate oysters in OT times you would be a sorry individual.
Forget all this chirping and listen to this:
My boy Lollipop
You make my heart go giddyup
You are as sweet as candy
You're my sugar dandy
Whoa oh, my boy Lollipop
Never ever leave me
Because it would grieve me
My heart told me so
I love you, I love you, I love you so
But I don't want you to know
I need you, I need you, I need you so
And I'll never let you go
My boy Lollipop
You make my heart go giddyup
You set the world on fire
You are my one desire
Whoa, my Lollipop
maybe we can put that in the bible to replace the psalm where god tells his followers that blessed is he who smashes the babies heads on the rocks.
Christians are not instructed to kill nor bash babies heads on rocks. You are purposefully taking things you read in the bible entirely out of context. For your future reference here is Christian law, “Matthew 22:36-40
King James Version (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Earth hasn't disappeared and everything is not accomplished, so it is still mandatory to kill your teenager who talks back to you. Mixed fibers bad. Other ridiculous rules that no real God would ever invent.
Gay marriage is in conflict with Biblical teaching.
Jesus defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman in Matthew 19.
The National Cathedral is nothing but a white-washed sepulchre...full of spiritually dead people...as Jesus aptly
described churches like that in the Holy Bible.
We are not fooled by this celebration of apostasy.
Skip the hypocrisy. The rest of your quote from Jesus was that NO ONE should divorce.
Who's "we," Doogie? You have Blob up your backside again?
I doubt you've ever BEEN to the National Cathedral for a service. I suspect you tend to go for the snake-handlers and tongue-speaker crowd, you putz.
then a pass a law within your short sighted church. Civil marriage should be between any two people. Your religions definition of marriage should only apply with your church, not to anoyone else.
I think Doug and perv make a cute couple.
Simple blood test will tell you what % of MONKEY you are have a great day !
See post below.
Jan 9 2013
@Really??... speaking of short-sightedness.
It sounds like @Douglas is a devoted member of the Presbyopians!
0% monkey. We are the genus ho mo, which is ape. Monkeys share a common ancester.
douglas is right. the bible condemns h.omos.exuality. it's very clear that g.ays should be put to death. this church is going against the bible. not sure how any christian churches get around that whole kill g.ays thing.
Why would we care what Jesus said?
jesus also told slaves to obey their masters if they want any chance of getting into heaven. he also set rules on when to beat your slaves. not exactly the picture of love and compassion....
And the A&A's chirp like the newly evolved chirpmonks. AAAAlllllviiiin!
Now now, go easy on Douglas. He's just out doing reverse recruiting of atheists.
Get those opinions out there, Douglas! Shriek them from every street corner! Show the world what religion really is so that they flee it.
When our one nation under God starts cow towing to filthy pillow biters it is a sign that liberty is in deep distress. Qu eers the people that gave AIDS to the world.
It's KOWTOWING, you fvckin' moron.
It must really gripe your hairy butt that the National Cathedral doesn't give a sh!t for your opinion.
Promiscuous heteros are spreading AIDS and all the other social diseases.
Towing cows is one of the ALL-TIME most ignorant things ever on blogs. CLASSIC!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah etc etc ad infinum.
Nobody brings down humanity's IQ quite like you, you perv.
Qu eer men are pillow biters, qu eer women are cows . Qu eers the people who have killed millions of innocents with AIDS.
LOL. OMG, Tom, the idiocy of posters like the pervert alert has no bounds. These are the cries of fundamentalism self-impoding in America.
Heteros are killing people by spreading AIDS.
( self-imploding )
Yeah, this herbie's right up there with the dumbs!t Pravda who typed "Cudos" and thought he was making an intelligent post.
Simple blood test will tell you what % of MONEY you are have a great day !
OOPS MONKEY have a great day !
Ooops should be monkey have a great day
cow tipping, it is.
pervert, keeping ignorance alive!
Do they do cow towing at monster truck rallys or NASCAR events?
And to think we were all so happy that you took your place in the military...hoping that we could draft all of you & let the front line get rid of the problem AIDS didn't.
Lesbian and Gay-Americans sure have come a long way in the last year. We took our place in the military, we are soon to take marriage equality for ourselves, but we still have a few employment issues to take care of.
Right whimper fifi.
as a straight man, i support you. straight against hate!
The CNN folks are bored again & are looking for entertainment...so they came out on a weekend to rerun an old story sure to bring out a bowl of fruits & mixed nuts.
The CNN folks r bored again...so the came out on a weekend to rerun an old story sure to bring out a bowl of fruits & mixed nuts.
I am for gay marriage and equality, but I don't know why any gay person would want to be married in a church or cathedral. That would be the last place I would want to be if I were gay.
religious delusion knows few boundaries
"That would be the last place I would want to be if I were gay."
Or a woman.
Gays are better Christians than the bigots.
Confusion abounds when you put the Beast in charge of marriage.
God's version of the sanct-ity of marriage:
If you see a virgin you want, just r-ape her and she must marry you.
sadly, there are christian g.ays out there. sad that anyone is christian, but for g.ays it's pretty unbelievable. the bible says to kill g.ays. why be a part of such hatred?
obgin, I see you're still hung up on the NIV and obsessed with *r*a*p*e*.
observer is right. the bible says that if a man r.apes a woman, he must marry her. really think about how utterly evil that is. guess what, poor woman that was r.aped? you get to spend the rest of your life with the man who s.exually abused you. isn't that great? amen.
The practice is still going on in Morocco. Recently a 16 year old girl was forced to marry her r apist, because her family could not live with the sahme. Of course the 16 year old girl couldn't live with her ra pist who also beat her nearly daily. She commited suicide. I guess it's better for her family to have her gone than live with the shame of having someone in your family that was ra ped. Barbarians.
Is this the church's volley in effort to keep the government from taxing them for political action?
According to IRS rules they should be taxed.
Church and State Clause
True order of things
BRAND NEW FOR review All starts with the brain.
Don't need religion to tell us where Origin of Life began OR how LIFE WORKS
Origin of Life: Just add WATER !!!
Hypothesis Traces First Protocells Back to Emergence of Cell Membrane Bioenergetics
Dec. 20, 2012 — A coherent pathway – which starts from no more than rocks, water and carbon dioxide and leads to the emergence of the strange bio-energetic properties of living cells – has been traced for the first time in a major hypothesis paper in Cell this week.
It is called Separation of Church and State
Can't teach ID/creationism in public schools in US as fact. PERIOD
NOVA | Intelligent Design on Trial – PBS
Nov 13, 2007 – Featuring trial reenactments based on court transcripts and interviews with key participants, including expert scientists and Dover parents, ...
New science standards created by MAJORITY of 26 states for 2013 (Stem).
Origin of life
where did the water come from?
???, water came from the stars, just like almost all elements and molecules. Go read "Atom" and "Something from Nothing" by Lawrence Krausss to learn why no god is required.
With all the funding they get from the government it would be very hypocritical of them not to support gay marriage.
I wish they'd change their name to the National Episcopalian Cathedral, or something like that. Too many folks think that they are the U.S. government's official church.
You're wrong if you think that I think that they have any official capacity. I'm not a retard. I have an intimate understanding of the Establishment Clause. Do you realize they received 700,000 dollars from the government last year? I'm just saying that any church who receives that much government money would know better than to rock the boat.
Apologies... I didn't mean to imply anything *retarded* about you. It's just that some people (Christians) use it as back-up for their declaration that the U.S. is a "Christian nation" because we even have a "National Cathedral".
Apology accepted and yes you are correct.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.