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January 15th, 2013
06:14 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Tuesday, January 15, 2013

By Arielle Hawkins, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: Split ruling on discrimination against UK Christians
A British Christian woman suffered religious discrimination when British Airways told her not to wear a visible cross over her uniform, a top European court ruled Tuesday. However, three other British Christians lost related religious discrimination claims at the European Court of Human Rights.


A magnifying glass allows you to explore the virtual environment, which depicts seven figures known as medicine Buddhas.

CNN: Buddhas in 3-D: Technology and the battle to preserve Asia's heritage
A darkened room in a Hong Kong university building is an unlikely portal into an ancient world. But with the touch of an iPad Mini, the space is digitally transformed into a 1,500-year-old Buddhist grotto. Its walls decorated with exquisite but faded paintings of enlightened beings, dancers and musicians. Another swipe and a pair of 3-D glasses brings the cave to life.

CNN: 'American Taliban' wins right to group prayer in prison
The man known as the "American Taliban" won a legal fight that will allow him and fellow Muslim inmates to gather for daily prayers. A federal judge ruled Friday that the warden at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Indiana, was violating John Walker Lindh's rights by not allowing the religious activities.

Photos of the Day:

Hindu devotees bathe in the waters of the holy Ganges river during the auspicious royal bathing day of Makar Sankranti, the start of the Maha Kumbh Mela on January 14, 2013 in Allahabad, India.

Indian Hindu devotees release offerings in the river's current while bathing in the Sangham or the confluence of the the Yamuna and Ganges rivers during the Kumbh Mela in Allahabad on January 14, 2013. Hundreds of thousands of Hindu pilgrims led by naked, ash-covered holy men streamed into the sacred river Ganges at the start of the world's biggest religious festival. The Kumbh Mela in the Indian town of Allahabad will see up to 100 million worshippers gather over the next 55 days to take a ritual bath in the holy waters, believed to cleanse sins and bestow blessings.

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

Reuters: Millions of Hindus take to the Ganges at world’s largest religious festival
Upwards of a million elated Hindu holy men and pilgrims took a bracing plunge in India’s sacred Ganges river to wash away lifetimes of sins on Monday, in a raucous start to an ever-growing religious gathering that is already the world’s largest.
Once every 12 years, tens of millions of pilgrims stream to the small northern city of Allahabad from across India for the Maha Kumbh Mela, or Grand Pitcher Festival, at the point where the Ganges and Yamuna rivers meet with a third, mythical river.

Religion News Service: U.S. mosques hit by shortage of imams
The Spokane Islamic Center wants something mosques all across the country are seeking and can’t seem to find: an educated, bilingual, experienced imam who understands American culture. According to the report “The American Mosque 2011” by University of Kentucky professor Ihsan Bagby, half of all mosques in the U.S. have no full-time staff, and only 44 percent of imams work as paid, full-time leaders.

Huffington Post: Zero Dark Thirty Protested By Religious Group For Depictions Of Torture
As the controversy continues over torture scenes in Zero Dark Thirty, the film about the hunt to capture Osama bin Laden, a group called the National Religious Campaign Against Torture has joined to protest the gruesome depictions of torture in the film by leafletting showings of it nationwide.

The Guardian: Why can't we read the Scientology book Going Clear in the UK?
Good news for those who were disappointed that Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master turned out to be a vague parable of Scientology rather than a penetrating exposé of it: a new book promises to do the job instead. Just the title of Lawrence Wright's Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief tells you more than The Master did. Going Clear is a veritable book of revelations on L Ron Hubbard's sci-fi religion, exhaustively detailing its history, its methods and the depth of its weirdness. Or so we're told. While Going Clear goes on sale in the US and the rest of Europe this week, you can't buy it in Britain. Not because it threatens national security, or features royal breasts, but because of our uniquely obliging libel laws.

Catholic News Agency: Stanford Law School inaugurates religious liberty clinic
Beginning this term, students at Stanford Law School have the opportunity to gain knowledge and real-world experience by participating in the nation’s first religious liberty clinic. The one-of-a-kind Religious Liberty Clinic will offer law students real-world experience in representing diverse clients and defending a wide span of religious beliefs and practices in various situations. It will provide opportunities for practice in the areas of administration, trials and appeals, as well as drafting amicus briefs.

Huffington Post: Michele Bachmann Not Worthy Of Intelligence Committee Role, 178,000 Say In Petition To John Boehner
A petition protesting the reappointment of Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence will be presented to House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Monday, after receiving 178,000 signatures. People for the American Way, a liberal advocacy group and dedicated Bachmann opponent, resurfaced the petition earlier this month after news that the congresswoman would remain on the high-profile panel despite spearheading a controversial campaign against Muslim members of President Barack Obama's administration last year.

Religion News Service: Humanists slice and dice the world’s sacred texts
The American Humanist Association has delivered electronic and paperback copies of Jefferson’s highly edited version of the Gospels to all incoming members of Congress and to President Obama. The so-called “Jefferson Bible” was handcrafted by the second president with a razor blade and a paste pot. He cut what he considered supernatural events — the virgin birth, miracles and healings — from the story of Jesus’ life, and pasted together what remained. In letters to John Adams, Jefferson described this as tearing down the “artificial scaffolding” from Jesus’ teachings.

Quote of the Day:

I have never been shy in mentioning my relationship with what I call God, a Spirit, and there certainly have been times over the years that I have called on him — or her, if you wish — in public. I deeply believe that there is a Supreme Being that sees us through…

To pray is nothing new. To pray in public is nothing new. But to pray in a setting where there will be thousands and thousands of people who will listen, I am asking for guidance. I am asking for direction and I am asking to, please God, help me stay within the three minutes that I have been given.

Myrlie Evers-Williams, the widow of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers, discusses her role in the invocation at this year’s upcoming presidential inauguration.

Join the conversation…

CNN: Hobby Lobby finds way around $1.3-million-a-day Obamacare hit – for now
By Friday, Hobby Lobby would have racked up $14.3 million in fines from the Internal Revenue Service for bucking Obamacare. But in keeping with the great American tax tradition, they may have found a loophole. The company is facing $1.3 million a day in fines for each day it chooses not to comply with a piece of the Affordable Care Act that was set to trigger for them on January 1. The craft store chain announced in December that, because of religious objections, they would face the fines for not providing certain types of birth control through their company health insurance.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (106 Responses)
  1. Zingo

    Darn

    January 18, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
  2. Zingo

    <

    January 18, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
  3. ???????

    Reviewing the comments noticed someting interesting. Science PROVED it does not work the way the bible said it did !!!
    All the facts are here on this tread. Peer reviewed !!!

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/17/belief-blogs-morning-speed-read-for-thursday-january-17-2013/#comments

    January 18, 2013 at 9:03 am |
  4. Milton

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioLEFRZP-_A&w=640&h=390]

    January 16, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
  5. Apes

    Going ape over evolution
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nH1fqd0Ryo&w=640&h=390]

    January 15, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • Science

      Brand New show has the smoking gun !!! Points out the smoking gun too.

      January 16, 2013 at 7:01 am |
    • niknak

      Science is so much more interesting then stone age fairy tales.

      January 16, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
  6. The Bottom Line

    Religion is a delusional reinterpretation of reality.

    There is no evidence.

    January 15, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      So says the bottom dweller.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • The Bottom Line

      Ad hominem evasion. LyinglyLame fails again. But at least he didn't do his usual diarrhea fecal-word thing.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Your morbidity ratings are well below bottom line dwellers. No wonder your fecal smells quite rancid whenever you bubbly up from your bottom line.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • The Bottom Line.

      Ad hominem and more ad hominem: nice job discrediting yourself, Lame.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      I'm not the one whose named being the "bottom line" is fancied being bellow the very depths of fecal matter. I'd be a liar to say otherwise.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
  7. lionlylamb

    1. Atomic cosmologies

    2. Celestial cosmologies

    3. Cellular cosmologies.

    Without the atomized cosmologies there would be no celestial or cellular cosmologies. Without the atomized and celestial cosmologies there would be no cellular cosmologies. These triune manifestations of cosmological orders were created by unknowable to us powers that be. All one can do is make gestured theories as to just how these three cosmological orders were established. We know they exist yet we do not know how they came into existence. To say that supreme forces beyond our knowledge established the evolutions of all three cosmologies is just a general theory. To say no such force was needed for these three cosmologies to come into existence dare I say is pure fiction

    January 15, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      You would claim such a force hath no beginning, yet mock those who believeth in other forms eternal?

      January 15, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • ME II

      I can almost understand the celestial and atomic ones, but how is the cellular level a "cosmology"?

      January 15, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • Which God?

      lionesslamby. You forgot one: toxic cosmology. This is the schitt you put out. I think you are the idiot from Calif who used to post on other blogs, and also claimed to be a Marine vet. Your post are quite similar. You need to get back on your meds Charles.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      lunchbreaker wrote, "You would claim such a force hath no beginning, yet mock those who believeth in other forms eternal?"

      What I get from your posting is that there are those who believe an eternalness of sorts with no real beginning?

      ME II wrote, "I can almost understand the celestial and atomic ones, but how is the cellular level a "cosmology"?"

      The biologic evolutionary episodes of cellular developments is yes; designed from the atomized cosmologies wherever plausibly ordained upon any planetary object of the celestial orders of cosmological revelations. The cellular orders of atomized cosmologies were made from the beginnings as being firstly a singular celled cosmologic undulation of atomized order.

      Which God?

      Sorry WG you have me confused with someone of your own met passing. I live on the other coastline.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • ME II

      Yeah... that didn't help.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      ME II,

      Cellular cosmologies are life compositions in that a single cell is likened to a celestial universe, only smaller. Does this help you to understand my views regarding cellular cosmologies?

      January 15, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
  8. Li_estrong.com

    Is wearing a cross part of Christianity?

    January 15, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Just one of the optional features. Not a recquirement for salvation, but for a little extra $$$ it can be all yours.

      January 15, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Johnny Blammo

      Yes, wearing an idol, a graven image is not against . . . many Biblical rules. Just a few.

      January 15, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • ME II

      @Johnny Blammo,
      Isn't holding the Bible inerrant, idolatry?

      January 15, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Johnny Blammo

      @ ME II – don't know don't care.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
  9. Robert Brown

    Tom, Tom, the Other One,
    Yes

    January 15, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      All right, so hell is a created thing, presumably created by God through the incarnate Word: "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." Is hell evil?

      January 15, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
  10. lunchbreaker

    If God is unchanging that means He has no choice other than to be what He is. Why should anything deserve praise and worship for effectively doing what is in it's nature?

    January 15, 2013 at 9:47 am |
  11. niknak

    Morning all.
    Out in Denver for bidness, and jeebus christ it's cold!
    But it will still be another beautiful day without god(s).

    January 15, 2013 at 9:20 am |
  12. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Pray without ceasing in 2013
    Prayer changes things

    January 15, 2013 at 8:51 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated assertions may represent truths is: "CHRONIC TOTAL FAIL".

      January 15, 2013 at 8:55 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      January 15, 2013 at 9:03 am |
  13. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    I'm not familiar with the American inauguration ritual. What follows the invocation of spirits? Is the Constitution sprinkled with the blood of an unblemished animal of some sort? Does the new President deflower a few virgins chosen by lot (to display his POTUSency)?

    January 15, 2013 at 8:27 am |
    • sam

      That would definitely increase the viewership.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
  14. It is Called

    @RB
    One thing for you to consider, what is the source of all the evil we see in the world?

    Power of the dollar= the G FACTOR (greed). and water oil diamonds gold land which the money market is based on.

    January 15, 2013 at 8:10 am |
    • It is Called

      @RB Can't forget the food . goverments use it to control poeple.

      January 15, 2013 at 8:49 am |
  15. Need Map

    @RB do have a map so we can sprot wings and fly there ?

    Would like to fly there some day.
    Thanks

    January 15, 2013 at 7:30 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Allegedly you have to die to get there. On occasion, delusional christians with guns apparently do some alledged god's work in recruiting new inhabitants so perhaps that presents a more expedient path.

      January 15, 2013 at 9:19 am |
  16. It is called

    All media channels have to get the message straight.
    Which one below is true ?
    Creation Adam and Eve/bible ?
    or
    Human Evolution ?
    Clue below.
    A pebble and a cave....
    The Oldest Rock In The World Tells Us A Story ... larger rock, and when scientists checked, it turns out this little grain formed around 4.4 billion years ago. ... After all, this planet, geologists say, is only 4.5 or 4.6 billion years old.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/01/10/169047159/the-oldest-rock-in-the-world-tells-us-a-story

    January 15, 2013 at 7:09 am |
    • Origin of Life

      New show everyone needs to watch , PARENTS. Schools already have access to show.
      Watched the other day.
      Simple Blood test (FACT) will tell us how much neanderthal is in our tree .

      NOVA: Decoding Neanderthals – PBS Pressroom
      pressroom.pbs.org/.../n/NOVA/4002-Decoding-Neanderthals.aspx
      NOVA: Decoding Neanderthals. Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 9:00-10:00 p.m. ET. Check your local listings. Decoding Neanderthals Ep Main. Find out what

      January 15, 2013 at 9:36 am |
  17. Robert Brown

    Hell is real. God has displayed his love by sending his son to die for you. If you reject him, God will demonstrate his justice by rejecting you.

    If you have a problem with that get over it, this is his universe. God is moving forward with his perfect plan.

    If you are out of agreement with him, you are the one who needs to make an adjustment.

    January 15, 2013 at 6:59 am |
    • JWT

      I't hard to reject what does not exist. You must live in a different universe then me since mine has no gods.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:03 am |
    • Robert Brown

      JWT,
      We live in the same physical universe. You just don’t have your God detector on.

      You must be born again, spiritually.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:16 am |
    • JWT

      Must ? I MUST do nothing of the sort. I have never had a god and there is no reason to change. that happy situation. A belief in ficticious (to me) gods is not necessary for anything at all.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:18 am |
    • Mirosal

      so we have to trudt the "supernatural"? You might believe in imaginary friends as a kid, but it's time to grow up. You said "Hell is real." Ok then, it's up to you to show us absolute proof that it exists. That's it, that's my only request. Time to put up or shut up. Oh, and before you start spouting, your "holy book" of fables is not considered evidence by ANY means of the word. You stated definitively that hell is real. Ok, with an absolute statement must come absolute proof. The ball is in your court.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:20 am |
    • Robert Brown

      JWT,
      I hope that you see your need some day.

      Do you have hope?

      Peace?

      Joy?

      If so, you are not at the place where you can see your need, if not, give God a try you won’t be disappointed.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:23 am |
    • Need Map

      @ RB you said,Hell is real

      Do you have a map so I can drive or sprot wings and fly to where it is ?
      Thanks

      January 15, 2013 at 7:25 am |
    • JWT

      I have what I need of all of those. No god required. God is fine for you but not everyone needs or wants one. Not to mention there are so many to choose from.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:26 am |
    • Robert Brown

      They all kind of go together, God and heaven, Satan and hell. If you have already rejected the mountains of circu.mstantial evidence then nothing I can write will change your heart and mind. To do that you will need a supernatural experience of your own. Sadly, if you believe those things don’t exist that will be very difficult for you.

      One thing for you to consider, what is the source of all the evil we see in the world?

      January 15, 2013 at 7:57 am |
    • Mirosal

      It's called "human nature". There will always be good people, and there will always be bad people. And, in reading your little book of fables, it would seem your mythological "god" is the biggest evil of all time. After all, wasn't it your "god" that wiped out all life on Earth, save for one little boat with a few people and some animals? No human has EVER come close to doing that. By the way, that flood is a physical impossibility.

      January 15, 2013 at 8:07 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Good morning, Robert. Was hell created? If not, can you list a few other uncreated things. I think God will be on your list. Curious about the others.

      January 15, 2013 at 8:18 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Robert Brown", but "Hell" and "God" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      January 15, 2013 at 8:57 am |
    • Which God?

      Rb, you really need to get back on your meds. Better yet, get a new Dr. for your delusional state of mind. You goD does not care about theis planet, the planet it supposedly created. It doesn't gice a schitt about you or me, nor the other 7 billion people here. It is all a man-made contruct, and you have fallen for it. RB, you are petrified of death. You have an addictive type personality. You NEED goD as an addict needs a fix. You use goD as your drug of choice. I have seen it before, too many times. Get high on science, really living and enjoying life, not running in fear, or bowing to some fukking 'lord/goD almighty do-nothing deity.

      January 15, 2013 at 9:17 am |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "Hell is real. God has displayed his love by sending his son to die for you. If you reject him, God will demonstrate his justice by rejecting you."
      If hell is real, and if heaven is filled with christians, then what's the difference? To me it sounds I'm fucked either way.

      I'm going out on a limb here and assuming you no longer believe in the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. Do you see any way you could you go back to believing in either? What makes you think there is any way to go back to believing in other imaginary beings?

      January 15, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Mirosal,
      Yes, we all have the sin nature, but I meant real evil, evil beyond our comprehension. We say these people who commit such atrocities are mentally ill. Could it be that they are not only mentally ill, but possessed by an evil spirit that defies explanation? Be honest, the meanest thing you have ever thought about doing doesn’t even compare to some the things people have done.

      January 15, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Tom, Tom, the Other One,
      Yes

      January 15, 2013 at 10:23 am |
    • Robert Brown

      hal 9001,
      Enjoy your idiomatic!

      January 15, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Which God?,

      I don’t take meds, or see a psychiatrist.

      I don’t suppose I have any more fear of death than anyone else.

      I do need God, on that we can agree. I can’t imagine living without him. I am very happy and have nothing to run from. I enjoy reading about science it is very interesting and exciting.

      When you come to the end of yourself, may I suggest Jesus? Peace.

      January 15, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • Robert Brown

      LinCA,
      Hey Lin, hows the weather in CA?

      I hope you have a loving family. If you join a group of beleivers they will be an extension of your family. What could be better than to be here or heaven with those you love.

      In order for you to believe, you will need some personal experience with God. Then you can and will believe.

      January 15, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Gir

      When will you religionists get it? Personal experience is NOT evidence. Leave that crap for when you meet other members of your cult. When speaking in public fora, provide evidence that we can ALL appreciate.

      January 15, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Gir,
      You can call it whatever you like, but if you want to know God, you will have to experience him personally. I can’t save you only Jesus can.

      January 15, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you, Gopher, Chard, TubeTop and LiverDoneFailed are examples of what being "saved" does, I'll pass.

      January 15, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "I hope you have a loving family."
      I do. Thank you.

      You said, "If you join a group of beleivers they will be an extension of your family."
      To be able to join such a group, don't you need to be a believer first? What reason would I have to join a smoke club if I don't smoke?

      You said, "What could be better than to be here or heaven with those you love."
      Nothing. The problem is, according to your fairy tale, I have no chance of getting to such a place after death.

      You said, "In order for you to believe, you will need some personal experience with God."
      I suspect that to have such an experience, you have to believe first. It is really hard, maybe even impossible, to suspend the disbelief in the complete absence of evidence, or mental illness.

      You said, "Then you can and will believe."
      Have you tried to have such an experience with the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny? Do you believe?

      January 15, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Lack of Evidence

      "Hell is real" – No evidence for this statement at all.

      "God has displayed his love by sending his son to die for you" – No evidence for this statement at all.

      "If you reject him, God will demonstrate his justice by rejecting you" – No evidence for this statement at all.

      " this is his univers" – No evidence for this statement at all.

      "God is moving forward with his perfect plan." – No evidence for this statement at all.

      "If you are out of agreement with him, you are the one who needs to make an adjustment"- No evidence on which to base this conclusion.

      Pure blind assertion, absolute lack of evidence supporting anything you say.

      Robert Brown is totally deluded.

      January 15, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      LinCA,

      Would it be fair to say that you don’t believe that there is any possibility there is a God, or do you think it would be possible, but you withhold belief until you see “evidence”?

      January 15, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      Would it be fair to say that you don’t believe that there is any possibility there is a God, or do you think it would be possible, but you withhold belief until you see “evidence”?
      Is this new tactic of asking the same question to avoid addressing points actually convincing to you?

      January 15, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Lack of Evidence,

      Would you like to know how you can prove God to yourself?

      January 15, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,
      Good morning! At least I think it is morning in your time zone.

      I don’t know what you mean by new tactic, I just type what comes to mind.

      January 15, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      Well considering that is your new default cop-out to any challenge for the past month, it seems it is a new tactic.

      January 15, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Lack Of Rvidence

      @ Robert Brown "Would you like to know how you can prove God to yourself?"

      Robert, choosing to misinterpret coincidence and emotion as divine communication is not proof; it's delusion. It's you using your imagination to lie to yourself that perfectly natural things are actually God.

      January 15, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,

      I am just being honest with you.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      To God comes all things naturally be they made yesterday, today or even tomorrow. God's very nature is Godly naturalism.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Lack,

      Coincidence, no, emotion, no, delusion, no, imagination, no.

      You don’t have any idea. Some people are emotional, some are not. I hope the Holy Spirit of God gets a hold of you some day. You obviously have never had an experience with God, so it is natural for you to try to explain it away. You are actually forced to explain it away, or believe.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      So you say, yet if you were really trying to be honest, you'd actually address posts instead of asking irrelevant questions to dodge them.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Fred

      " I hope the Holy Spirit of God gets a hold of you some day. You obviously have never had an experience with God, so it is natural for you to try to explain it away. You are actually forced to explain it away, or believe."

      Everyone can get the exact same feeling without believing in a god. You are only stimulating part of your brain that gives you a chemical reaction that you have named a God, but it's just that a chemical reaction in your brain. An atheist meditating can get the same response. You just happen to be addicted to that one type of chemical reaction. Your god is all in your head, it doesn't mean it's real.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      Mr. Brown, Which do you think would be more challenging, convincing an atheist there is a God, or convincing someone of another faith your God is the correct one?

      January 15, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Robert Brown

      Lack,

      Coincidence, no, emotion, no, delusion, no, imagination, no.

      You don’t have any idea. Some people are emotional, some are not. I hope the Holy Spirit of God gets a hold of you some day. You obviously have never had an experience with God, so it is natural for you to try to explain it away. You are actually forced to explain it away, or believe.
      .
      Been there done that as a former evangelical. It is amazing how a crowd can get worked up in the presence "holy spirit". One example is Benny Hinn, I know first hand that actors are placed in the crowd to assist in working the crowd up. There is a reason why the "healing" is towards the end. As sheep is a very fitting name...for people wanting to believe so badly that the chemicals in their brain get worked up and they feel the nirvana. It is a form of self imposed mental illness. I hope a sense of reality gets a hold of you Mr. Brown.

      January 15, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • sam

      I'm just thinking the guy should have been imaginitive enough to show his love some other way than sending a sacrifice. Definitely not dating material.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "Would it be fair to say that you don’t believe that there is any possibility there is a God, or do you think it would be possible, but you withhold belief until you see “evidence”?"
      I don't exclude the remote possibility that there is a god (or multiple). But, while I acknowledge the possibility of gods, I consider the christian god (as it is most often described) to be about as likely as the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

      Why do you ask? If you have evidence to the contrary, please share.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Lunchbreaker,
      I think convincing an atheist there is a God would be easier. Come to find out, most athiests that I have asked, say they believe a God is a possibility.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT,

      I agree that there are conartist who masquerade as preachers and healers and whatever. It is a shame.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Prior post by 'Robert Brown' contains an instance of the Secret Decoder Ring fallacy, and requests Confirmation Bias.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org

      January 15, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      LinCA,

      The reason I asked is to find out how you thought about God. Turns out your response is similar to what I have heard from most atheists. They believe God is a possibility but they have a problem with the Christian God.

      I have tried to answer some of the big complaints, but it didn’t seem to help. What is your beef with the Christian God?

      January 15, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      The reason why it doesn't help is that you operate on the automatic assumption that your right, and cannot see anything that is brought up against the concept of the christian god because it is outside your own preconceived notions.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hey there fallacy, I hope you're doing well. If you don’t mind could you tell me specifically which comment has a problem? Thanks.

      January 15, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,
      I agree that I have a preconceived notion in that I believe in God, but I will tell you right now I don’t assume that I have all the answers. I said I was trying to help. Trying is attempting, right?

      January 15, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      You don't try to have an actual conversation, you try to prosletyze. You try to rationalize everything. You don't answer certain questions, and merely shut down when people do not accept your flat assertions.
      The only thing you're attempting is to reinforce your own beliefs by convincing others.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Universe? Only one? I'd dare suggest there are more universes than one can dare shake a stick at! Celestial universes are just bigger versions of the cellular varieties found within any life form. Our celestial universe could very well be part of a ginormous being swimming upon a vast sea upon a grand earth so huge the concept of which is but as a dream to be considered only as truth if one but believes.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @lionly

      Still posting the same pseudo-intellectual nonsense? I guess when you have nothing substantial, you need to hide behind nonstandard vernacular and convoluted reasoning based in flat assertions.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      hawaiiguest,

      I have to take a stand on something. Your stance though is subjectively based in negativities, yes?

      January 15, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @lionly

      You taking a stand doesn't change what I typed is accurate. You have shown this in your inability to actually address posts or criticisms, as well as throwing out that Red Herring to try and move the conversation away from you.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      hawaiiguest,

      So then, your making me to be your center of attention seems to be a 'red herring'? Still, I stand upon stating your 'criticisms' and what have you as being but negative proposals meant to be discriminant accosting revelries. Where I dare to dream, you dare to throw out sarcastic cynicisms of the negative variations. Remember what I first posted and just how you then made a negative proposal regarding my initialized views of multiple universes? Your 'red herring' negativity is the brunt force of most of your posts!

      January 15, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @lionly

      You have redifined universe to be essentially a meaningless term. Do you even realize what a Red Herring is? Are you even trying to make any kind of sense or to put anything forward that would move any conversation forward? No you are not. You are merely making assertions with pseudo-intellectual word usage in order to prop yourself up, seem smart to others, and to avoid actually addressing anything at all.
      SO apparently negativity is now defined as pointing out your dishonest and moronic tactics. Wow you sure do like to redifine words to justify your own idiocy.

      January 15, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,
      You think I post to reinforce my own beliefs, when the truth is I post to persuade people to rescue them. God loves you and God is just. His love is shown by his offer, his justice is made evident by judging sin. He will save you or judge you. I have nothing to gain by telling you this. My faith is what it is. I try to persuade people to save them from Gods judgment. Not only is his judgment of sin recorded in the bible, I have experienced it as well. You will reap what you sow, it is inescapable. The only hope for anyone is the forgiveness of sin through faith in Jesus Christ.

      January 15, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      hawaiiguest,

      Your innateness toward playing deaf and dumb does not jive! I still see most of your blathering posts as being subjectively negative for the most parts. Just because I stand firm in there most likely being a very ginormous planet where within its ocean are giant e n t I t I e s of which our universe is found being inside one means you need not blare out negativities! If all your posts are negatives, which I find them mostly to be of, you must have a great life to lead and live! I love to dream dreamt of realities that cannot be disproven, but only held in transitive relevance. Your negativities does no one but the self any good!

      January 15, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @lionly

      There you go not addressing anything and merely saying "your meany wahhhhhhh!". How about you quit with the useless unfalsifiable claims that mean absolutely nothing to anyone except yourself. How about you quit with pseudo-intellectual idiocy trynig to make yourself seem smarter than you are. Or is it that you realize if you stated things normally everyone would realize just how idiotic your claims are.

      January 15, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "They believe God is a possibility but they have a problem with the Christian God."
      My problem is not only with the christian one. I consider any personal god pretty much equally unlikely. Zeus, Allah, Thor, Ra, just to name a few are about equally likely to be real as Yahweh. I'm an equal opportunity unbeliever.

      You said, "What is your beef with the Christian God?"
      Absence of evidence, goes without saying really, but I'll repeat it here just for good measure.

      A clear explanation of why people invent gods makes it pretty obvious why they exist in the minds of believers. Gods are invented as a way to explain the unexplained and to provide power to the person doing the explaining. Gods only "explain" the things that science doesn't (yet) have an explanation for, or for which that explanation is rejected (often because it refutes the religious explanation).

      Other issues are with traits commonly assigned to these gods. Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive. A perfect god can't create an imperfect creation. An all-loving god wouldn't commit all the atrocities attributed to yours. Etc. etc.

      In light of a far better explanation (see above), I simply see no reason to go through the mental gymnastics to cobble together some cockamamie story to force these inconsistencies back into a somewhat coherent story.

      January 15, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      And there's a perfect example of my point. You don't care about any perspective other than your own. You're so enamored in your own self-righteousness that you are literally incapable of even entertaining that people can come to a different conclusion than you based on the same things you spout out. You think as long as you constantly reassert yourself, you're accomplishing something, which you aren't.

      January 15, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      LinCA,
      I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thoughts.

      I can see what you are saying about ancient men making up a God to explain creation. I have posted some thoughts before on the creation narrative, the garden of eden, and the flood. I won’t post them again, but just ask, what would you think if they are parables?

      An all knowing and all powerful God could do whatever he pleased so the idea that those are mutually exclusive is a human invention. God chose to create creatures (humans) with limited free will. Him creating them knowing they have the capacity to rebel would only be a bad thing if there was no cure or escape. He allowed us to rebel but he gives a way to reconcile. If it is his creation then he is enti.tled to do whatever he pleases with it, so the idea that we can determine what he should consider an atrocity is like an ant trying to tell you what to do. Also, would a being that knows for sure there is an eternity for the spirit, put as much weight on this short physical life?

      From a humanist perspective God does not seem to make sense. The humanist morality is based completely on what is in the best interest of the human creation not what is in the mind of the creator. Change your perspective for a moment, it may change your life.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,
      Why would I bother sharing ideas with you if I didn’t care about your perspective? Of course I am trying to persuade you, but that doesn’t mean that I dismiss your perspective. I try to gain understanding.

      I can assure you that I know exactly how God views my righteousness. I have none without Jesus. Jesus is the righteousness of the believer.

      The idea is to share the good news in as many ways to as many people as possible, to give out the word. God does the work, so I know I can’t accomplish anything. If you change your heart and mind, it will be God who does it, not me.

      January 15, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
    • Bob

      How's that evidence for your particular sky fairy story coming along, Robert? We're still waiting for that, along with your "personal experience" story...

      And how can any "morality" based on threats of obvious human rights abuses as punishment, such as torture in "hell", be considered valid, appropriate, or good?

      Any modern human court would consider such punishment barbaric, to say the least. And the threats of torture purportedly by your god would also constitute criminal assault.

      That's one very nasty god you've made for yourself there. Christianity, particularly that flagrantly practiced and grossly over-preached by evangelists, is also anti-science and is therefore putting our young people and our future workforce at a disadvantage relative to competing nations that now have better science education without religious bias and without the ancient supersti-tions that block modern understanding and technological and medical progress.

      Therefore, if we want to keep our great country the greatest in the world, a status that is increasingly questionable and under threat, Americans need to overthrow the power that Christianity has in the US, and ultimately get past religion entirely. We need to take our freedom back from the power-holders and practitioners of Christianity, and push back hard against the idiocies that religion represents.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      January 15, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      Holy shit are you serious? Are you that blind to your own posts? YOUR NOT SHARING YOUR PERSPECTIVE! You're merely asserting you are right, and not addressing anything that contradicts that! You constantly dodge many challenges to your worldview with "bible bible rah rah bible bible rah", if you deign to actually even address the topic in the first place!
      You don't actually look at anything that is presented, and brush it away as "not biblical in my interpretation", or go off on a different vein entirely!
      You're not "sharing", you're asserting. You're not being caring, your prosletyzing because you took a part of the bible that tells you to do that. You don't care, you're following orders.
      Your religion devalues humanity, and teaches that no one is worth anything. And if we believe we aren't just piles of worthless shit and beg for forgiveness from the being that made us with that nature, then we burn forever in eternal torment.
      I have too much respect for humanity to worship a god like that even it was proved to me that god was real.

      January 15, 2013 at 9:10 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "I won’t post them again, but just ask, what would you think if they are parables?"
      Parables to illustrate what?

      If anything, they show that ancient men were clueless regarding everything but the most basic stuff. They used stories of vengeful gods to scare the tribe into doing the leaders bidding.

      You said, "An all knowing and all powerful God could do whatever he pleased so the idea that those are mutually exclusive is a human invention."
      Of course they are mutually exclusive. It is logically impossible to both know everything and have the ability to change your mind. Being all powerful removes the possibility of knowing everything. You just need to twist it to maintain the illusion.

      You said, "God chose to create creatures (humans) with limited free will."
      If your god is omniscient, it knows exactly what everyone will do, and when they will do it. If it can be known what you will do, you can't change it and you have no free will, only the illusion of it. Omniscience rules out free will.

      You said, "Him creating them knowing they have the capacity to rebel would only be a bad thing if there was no cure or escape. He allowed us to rebel but he gives a way to reconcile."
      When rebelling you acknowledge the authority against which you rebel. You have to be a believer to rebel against your god. I don't rebel against any gods any more than I rebel against Sauron.

      And if we just simply don't buy the nonsense about your god, it'll burn us for eternity, right?

      You said, "If it is his creation then he is enti.tled to do whatever he pleases with it, so the idea that we can determine what he should consider an atrocity is like an ant trying to tell you what to do."
      A monster that destroys life at will, even though it feels entitled to because it created it, certainly isn't worthy of worship.

      You said, "Also, would a being that knows for sure there is an eternity for the spirit, put as much weight on this short physical life?"
      I don't know. You tell me. It's your fantasy.

      You said, "From a humanist perspective God does not seem to make sense."
      Neither does it from a rational perspective.

      You said, "The humanist morality is based completely on what is in the best interest of the human creation not what is in the mind of the creator."
      Since there isn't a shred of evidence there is a creator, basing morality on anything other than the best interest of society is ridiculous beyond compare.

      You said, "Change your perspective for a moment, it may change your life."
      As soon as there is a reason to do so, I will. Until there is a rational case to be made for any god, I'll reconsider.

      January 15, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
  18. TrollAlert

    click the report abuse link to get rid of this garbage.

    January 15, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
  19. K-switch

    I would think a gay prosti tute could make more than $86/hour.

    January 15, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
  20. LOL!

    You know the original poster is desperate to be posting their site on religious blogs. Your business must really suck!

    January 15, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.