Editor's Note: Deborah Mitchell, a mother of two teenagers in Texas, blogs about raising her children without religion. An avid reader of the Belief Blog, she said she shared this essay on CNN iReport because 'I just felt there is not a voice out there for women/moms like me. I think people misunderstand or are fearful of people who don’t believe in God.'
By Deborah Mitchell, Special to CNN
(CNN)–When my son was around 3 years old, he used to ask me a lot of questions about heaven. Where is it? How do people walk without a body? How will I find you? You know the questions that kids ask.
For over a year, I lied to him and made up stories that I didn’t believe about heaven. Like most parents, I love my child so much that I didn’t want him to be scared. I wanted him to feel safe and loved and full of hope. But the trade-off was that I would have to make stuff up, and I would have to brainwash him into believing stories that didn’t make sense, stories that I didn’t believe either.
One day he would know this, and he would not trust my judgment. He would know that I built an elaborate tale—not unlike the one we tell children about Santa—to explain the inconsistent and illogical legend of God.
And so I thought it was only right to be honest with my children. I am a non-believer, and for years I’ve been on the fringe in my community. As a blogger, though, I’ve found that there are many other parents out there like me. We are creating the next generation of kids, and there is a wave of young agnostics, atheists, free thinkers and humanists rising up through the ranks who will, hopefully, lower our nation’s religious fever.
Read Mitchell's 7 reasons she's raising her children without God
the thing i'm wondering...........................where is the true FIRST BOOK of the bible? where is the story of the war of angels? how is it lucifer has so much power over humans, yet he can't even write a fracking book himself?
i find this "god" to be a complete failure and i refuse to give my children bad examples to follow.
1) created angels. thus angels rebeled against him
2) created humans, thus humans rebeled against him
3) created humans a second time after flooding the earth, thus humans still rebeled against him.
face it theists, your god is a failure.
He's bad with money too:)
I'm an atheist, too. My wife's parents are quite religious. We have told our young son and daughter in response to the inevitable question: "noboby knows what happens." I try to teach and model compassion, logic and self-reliance. Respecting others' beliefs is part of that compassion.
I think pointed, bitter criticism of christianity on my part will only push him towards religion during his rebellious stage. It's up to him to decide how he wants to live.
Supporting this approach, I've seen my 5 year old son, completely unprompted by my wife or myself (since we don't talk about religion, simply conducting our lives without it) engage his born-again grandfather in heated debate over believing in something for which there is no evidence.
Well said. We have 80 people young and old on our DNA tree and the same thing happens here, but they all recently
understand DNA doesn't lie, as we had the family tree decoded. Please watch video for thr smoking gun
according to PBS – Nova.
debate, debate, and on the road of hate.
Looks like PBS -Nova ended debate. have the smoking gun below.
Brand new show Jan 9 2013
In public schools already in the US !!!
Nothing about this in the bible.
Can't help but ask if the ideological fences you are using is the same dogmatism that you are trying to protect your child from.
Because your anti-religious sentiments sounds so "religious."
How is she supposed to respond? She has recognised religion as a threat to her children.... and heres the kicker.... If Atheists sat back and did nothing, their children could be learning that Humans and Dinosuars were the best of buds...
That learning the sciences isnt as important as the afterlife with The Dear Leader. I like how we arent supposed to say anything...even when our own kids are involved.
Your bible...it is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Willy had a way with words, time to be rid of such stuff and nonsense.
"Because your anti-religious sentiments sounds so "religious.""
Really, I didn't see any mention of rituals, prayer, ect., how are you defining "religion"
God is the root of all evil.
An evangelist once came to me and shared that the absence of god is the presence of evil. If so then terrorist must be the best people becos they have so much god in them. People who have no contact before Jesus came ir existed before him must be evil. Or rather if the above argument is sound. The sheer amount of evil we see around us naturally reinforces the truth that god does not exists, he is absent all the time thats why evil is present all the time. The sheer fact that religion fight wars and kill reinforces the fact that religion brings not the truth but the sword.Better an atheist with no eternal life than a theist as an eternal servant. God is the longest serving idol. People have died for him. Conquered lands. Burnt witches. Fought wars all becos of an imaginary fren run by self deluded spirtualists who self proclaim as messengers to continue his bloodline. I used to think that an idol has to be made of mud and stones and sticks. In fact it doesnt. God doesnt need to be made of mud and sticks but rather theists worship the invisible him like an idol that they naturally make the greatest idol worshippers of all time."I have been dead for a million years until I came. Before I came, I need no god and heaven. Fear no hell and devil. This is where I hope to be."
If god is the creator of all things. He is the cause to all things. Good and evil are self dictated by his whims and fancies. If today he decides that cannabalism in his creation is his positive moral compass....we should be eating each other like what the animals do.
If god is indeed the omnipotent creator. Everything he creates is meaningless. Birds don't need wings so that they can fly. Animals don't need legs so that they can walk. The good old lord can simply make anything work as long as he wants it or wills it. Its strange how religion tries to inject science into beliefs to make sense.
And then use science to refute science, followed by, claiming science isn't dependable when it contradicts their superst itions.
@ Ire Maiden
SCIENCE no gods required. Brand New Show
DNA can't be disputed. But they are still trying
PBS Nova Decoding Neanderthals doc-umentary
Oops forgot to metion PBS doc. is already in the public schools, so parents better be able to explain there g-ods.
The show even states it has the smoking gun !!!
God does not exist. He cannot be created. The fact that people are debating about his existence very much shows that we are creating him in our own heads. I still prefer to keep him that way. Uncreated.
Hello, I really hate to ask you this, especially being as it's so unrelated to the article, but you don't happen to be a fan of the band Iron Maiden? Another atheist or agnostic Iron Maiden fan on the belief blog would really make my day :)
I like "Die with your boots on".
Then you, sir "Blessed are the Cheesemakers" are awesome ;)
Thank you, I am an old metal head but my favorite was Black Sabbath.
That's awesome! I guess you could call me a young metal head, born in the wrong decade lol. Black Sabbath is one of my favorites. Did you hear about their new album with Ozzy called "13" being released in June?
ex-c, not a devoted metal head here but I do keep all that stuff on my ipod as well. I likes me some naughty Dio now and again. Holy Diver!
I had not heard Ozzy was putting out a new album. That's what sucks about getting old, you lose touch, oh well.
By the way, Chad...I find it interesting that Jesus is quoted as having said (in response to someone quoting Jewish scripture) "You've heard it said...but I show you a better way..."
Now, you said:
2. Lets look at these “immoral” acts.
2a. Not all killing is wrong.
Thanks for this, Chad...you confirm that those who claim to be pro-life aren't. Having served 10 years in the military, ALL war is immoral and all killing is immoral, no matter how you and politicians and Admirals, Captains, Co mmanders, Lieutenants, Chief Petty Officers and Leading Petty Officers try to couch it. Once again, there were/is/are better ways for humans to interact.
The circu mstances that surround the killing is what distinguishes immoral from moral.
A nice academic treatment of reality...hope you take the time out of your protected life, Chad, to either serve in the military and see, first hand, a war zone. Then spend a year or two in those parts of the world where life (and your life) is threatened by the conditions of life (and no, a mission trip doesn't count).
2b. The circu mstances described in the bible surrounding these supposed immoral acts, show that the action taken is indeed moral.
Of course they do, Chad...they have to. A writer of "holy scripture" doesn't intentionally contradict. But, as I've said above, looking at scripture from the outside, the immorality of the acts is not "supposed."
You said (once again with the arrogance of a tenured professor and a certain believer):
2c. You could ONLY evaluate the morality of those acts if indeed you sought to understand all of the circu mstances surrounding them. One would expect no less from a responsible juror, in your case, you judge without understanding without this due diligence on your part. Until you do your due diligence, your accusations lack credibility.. right?
As I've said to Bill Deacon and others, you've not spent a minute with me...you don't know where I've been, what I've done and what I've thought...you don't know what is in my heart (and I am convinced that you don't know what is in your own heart...academics tend to be compensating for a host of psychological issues).....so to make your claims shows that you, in fact, lack credibility.
Having been born into a conservative Catholic, military family and born again at age 8, I have considered these things (contrary to your arrogance) and continue to do so in a sometimes painful manner and have found the God of Israel immoral and the collection of books we declare as scripture merely an attempt by humans to understand their place in the world/universe.
Further, along with the arguments presented by theists, agnostics and atheists through years past, the single most powerful confirmation of the non-existence of the God of Israel is the daily lives of those who claim to follow him...and the life you've portrayed here, Chad, only supports my conclusion...and yes, Chad, I own those conclusions because they are made without fear and with the full knowledge that if the God of Israel does exist, I will spend eternity in that place prepared for the devil and his angels...but will confirm once and for all, that the God of Israel is immoral because of it.
Pointing out that Chad and his fellow christian apologists are full of BS does not work. Their faith that the god of Isreal is real is a strong belief that does not rest on loical proof or evidence no matter how many strawmen they create The best we can do is provide some common sense to the debate as you have done, good effort.
My hope is a 3rd party will read both sides and see what weasel's they are.
@S-3B Viking "[All killing/war is immoral]" (paraphrase mine)
@Chad "was driving Germany back immoral? Ja pan? Is defending myself with deadly force immoral?
i simply can not see how you can say that. Killing is always horrible, but immoral? No.
@S-3B Viking "I own those conclusions because they are made without fear and with the full knowledge that if the God of Israel does exist, I will spend eternity in that place prepared for the devil and his angels...but will confirm once and for all, that the God of Israel is immoral because of it.'
@Chad "two questions:
1. upon what evidence have you based your rejection of God.
2. how would God honoring your choice make Him immoral??
I have never served, I do sincerely thank you for your service.
The final evilution.
Well Done! Few nincompoops are so succinct in proving their idiocy.
Funny yet sad the iRport story has been flagged as inappropriate content. Poor Religitards frothing at the mouth...
the enemies of reason have are offended.
the enemies of reason ARE offended.
Where do you see that?
Lawrence: here -> http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-910282?hpt=hp_c3
I don't see any note of it being flagged. I don't doubt it was – religious people do go for vandalism whenever atheism becomes even slightly visible, but I think the staff must have rolled their eyes and removed the flag.
yeah – it was flagged – now it's not.
too bad – they should have left it flagged.
i love it when the enemies of reason attempt to stifle free speech.
The bible should be "flagged".
Warning contains incest, genocide, infantcide, human sacrifice and torture.
exactly, cheese. Not an iota of offensive material in the story yet they flag. Their book CHOCK FULL of murder, rape and incest: perfectly acceptable. And it isn't enough their anger pamphlet has all that stuff but it is CONDONED behaviour!
It always makes me think of an interview with John Cleese where he is reminiscing about a TV interview show he did not long after Life of Brian where some priests were on stage belittling the movie as sacrilegious. John Cleese is trying to tell this story; he says something about how the priest was there fondling his "not so modest" jewelry and that in fact the priest was gay, and simply busts out laughing so hard he can't finish telling the story. He can only manage to say through his laughter, "oh the hypocrisy."
I love Python and Cleese, I have seen that debate with the preist and Cleese, I did NOT know that priest turned out to be gay. Why am I not surprised....?
Only for the new members of this blog:
Again, for this "tough-love", honest Mom, a modern-day prayer/creed:
The Apostles' / Agnostics’ Creed 2013 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
(References used are available upon request.)
As a parent, I know how easy it can be to lie to your child about death. Just last night while explaining to my 3-year-old daughter that her great grandmother made the blanket she was using, I told her that she died when I was a young boy, but that' it's amazing that we can still enjoy her gift. She said, "I never got to tell her 'thank you'." Which both broke my heart and stunned me because the first thing I wanted to say was, "she knows." After a minute of contemplation the best reply I could give was, "if she were alive, I'm sure she'd want you to have it and would be so happy that you use it every night."
Does my daughter understand death? No. Not really. However, I think it's better for her to understand that something was once here and is no longer here, than to believe some fantasy that things never go away. In short, parenting is tough. I understand the author's initial compulsion to lie and sympathize with it.
Congrats on your choice. I believe the dividends of it will pay off throughout life. We slowly help ourselves, our families and then mankind wrestle free from religion.
I really think kids understand ... not necessarily death ... but existance and non-existance very well.
How many times ( and I know I did this as a child ) have you heard a frustrated child say:
"I wish I was never born"
Why would they say that ? Because they know that prior to them being born they felt no such frustration or pain. They didn't feel ANYTHING. In the moment of this frustration the deduce that feeling 'nothing' is more desirable than feeling there present emotion.
@Brother Maynard, Completely agree. Maybe because they are closer to non-existence than we are.
Religion is no more than stories that die-hards want you to buy their story. There are so many different ways creationism is retold in all different religion. However, some are more annoying than others. Religion is largely about sacrifice. From human sacrifice, animal sacrifice and the higher class...god sacrifice. There is a cultic element about it. Some has a godhead. A prince. From the blood of tis prince flows the blood of eternal life. And his converts have to go round convert others. Doesnt this sound like a vampire movie.
The problem is while most other stories are taken for their entertainment value, some for a moral value too, religious nuts want others to believe their story to be the word of an unerring omnibenevolent imaginary god, and to follow their way or else go to hell!
Let me rephrase. The Bible, much like any other religious text, in my eyes is one giant Rorshach ink blot.
When I look at the Bible I see a bat.
Have you ever actually read the bible?
If not, then upon what are you basing your rejection of it's contents?
Its, not it's.
rejection is based on laughably impossible content presented as fact
Chad I ask believers the same question. The fact you have and still accept it, is amazing.
"Have you ever actually read the bible?
If not, then upon what are you basing your rejection of it's contents?"
Chard: Have you read the Bhagavad Gita? The Koran? The Tibetan Book Of The Dead? The Tao? Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?
If not, upon what are you basing your rejection of it's contents?
@ Sam stone,
It is really funny how people like Chad, Topher, L4H.... make the claim about Bible being the one true word, without any knowledge about the beliefs of other religions. It is far too much to expect of them to try and understand why some people have no belief in god when they can't even understand the fact that a significant proportion of believers have beliefs different than them.
Did some frogs never ever get out of their wells?
This pleases Tim the Destroyer of Worlds. Raise your children not with false gods. They should know that Ferretianism is the one true religion. Repent! (banjoferret d c)
According to the bible, the christian god decided to forcibly impregnate a twelve year old girl with himself. Can you say.........legitimate r.ape?
You know that book has a snake talking to nudists in the first chapter. I've always been of the opinion that whatever you think it means..that's what it means to you.
How is it possible for a god who claims to be the creator, the alpha and omega. Who can create the beginning and end of this universe to be killed not only by his creation and but to die in a world he created for himself. God is no more than a self directed director and actor. He craves attention and derives much pleasure from his own show. He self directed his own life as well as his own death and resurrection. I don't need eternal life. I dun need to benefit from someone's death. I would like to ask all theists. If ever you are present when Jesus is to be crucified. Would you watch on and let him die so that you can have your eternal life or you will stop them?
Sure, when Zeus does it he's a bad guy, but only because he cheated on Hera, and she got her revenge on some of those girls.
Evil didnt exists becos adam n eve ate the apple. Evil is where your heart is. Since god allows evil. Either he is incapable of dealing with it becos it has already been there before he existed. If not he bears full ownership for its existence since creation is exclusive to him. Lucifer did not even eat the apple. How then is he capable of evil and pride and rebellion. Its all an inside job. I can never understand a god who has a jekyll n hyde personality who believes in repayment. He made his son pay. He make you pay with hell if you dont accept his mode of payment. All in all, free will is an illusion. God loves robots. There is no greater satisfaction in giving a robot free will yet the robot surrenders his will becos he only obeys your will as a servant becos you are his master.
Lionly. I just wanted to express my condolences and to tell you these boards need not house your personal life. Just remember, on these boards if someone throws you the ball you don't have to catch it.
Jesus Christ this is a stupid article.
What is stupid about it Ned?
It's well written. A lot of people can relate to it. Her kids are in very good hands Ned.
sorry, I meant the comment thread was stupid. article is spot on.
thank you Deborah Mitchell
Doubly notable that she does so from Texas – though I suspect that is in part why she does so online.
@GOP, sadly it's in places like that that people feel the need to make a big deal out of not believing. On most of the coasts no one gives much of a crap unless you're in some obscure religious enclave.
@saraswati: i live within an hour or so of Washington DC. My experiences do not align with yours. Not at all...
how so? I will say that people are generally more tolerant of different religious beliefs on the west coast compared with say the midwest.
The east coast has to be broken up into the south east, mid-atlantic, greater NY, and New England. They are all going to behave differently regarding religion.
@End, that's why I said "most". When I lived in North Carolina it would also not have aligned in most areas. The Georgia to Virginia corridor is the exception...but shrinking. Just look at how far Maryland has come.
"On most of the coasts no one gives much of a crap" sounds like a whole lotta people who don't care about religion. This is not my experience. There is much farm land along route 15. I'm glad Maryland voted for gay marriage – i was pleasantly surprised.
I always "thought" that the body existed independent of the spirit, that the "spirit" goes on and the body stays behind. I always percieved hell is a "lower astral" dimension...and again all in the realm of "theory". Not biblical of course, but what I pieced together over years of reading random things... (((shrugs))).
Of course, there is utterly no evidence for that either, but if that floats your boat, go for it.
Our spirit is our body's nothingness which is as a part of spatial nothingness which is the Holy Spirit of God.
Lionly Lamb, someone said you admitted to abusing a sibling. Is this true? Was it sexual abuse? Physical abuse? What did you do? Or is it untrue?
I am going to have to assume it is true. If it were false, you would have angrily denied it. Only the guilty would avaoid answering something like that.
My childhood days are not up for discussions. My brother and I are today living together. I am our breadwinner and I support our way of life. He and I are of one blood and we love each other without blames. We have been living together since our parents died and passed on. I will do anything to keep us both afloat in these trying days. My brother has not had a job in many years. The money I receive is enough to keep us above the waters. My brother is my life and his kids and grandkids are our Life and when I am dead and pass on; I will leave this world knowing I have given our family all the love I could give them! Although my brother is an alcoholic, I have quit drinking on September 5th 2,009. I cannot change my brother's habits. I Love him for being alive and giving me causes to live via his kids and grandkids. What more can a childless person such as myself be given than my brother's children?
it frightens me to even think about this scenario. Hopefully someone at CNN can snag your IP, get a court order to see if they can get a social worker to visit that mess you call a family.
Spirit is known as dark matter in scientific community, a program noting can form without.
And just what do you Hope to find by having a social worker coming to Our residence? 2 brothers living together in a home left to us by our dead ad passed on parents. Not too much going on here. My brothers two kids live elsewhere. His son is in the Navy and his daughter is married with three children. Sorry to burst your bubble but our family members are all alive and doing well!
Sweet Zombie Jew on a Stick! Lionly actually can write like a normal person! Now if we can only get that with his normal pseudo-intellectual posts.
While there are times I have to write with clarity, there will be future times not so much. Ever since 7th grade science class when we were taught about atoms, I asked the science teacher if these atoms could be but miniature solar systems. He didn't answer me but gave me a snide look. To this day, I have always been at awe regarding the possibility that atoms might somehow be miniature systems of our celestial cosmos.
LL admitted it in posts some time ago. He then disappeared for a while, I assume to be hospitalized.
While an analogy could be made, the natural processes involved might be very different. I'm no molecular physicist, but I think just taking an analogy, and running with it as a basis for an entire theological argument that you don't make clear in the first place doesn't really make sense.
I wonder if you browbeat your nieces about their "bedroom antics" and called them "tramps" when they were teenagers.
You seem to think that's the way to raise children and teach them about love.
LL loves to gas on about gays, too, and what filthy habits they have.
It would funny if it weren't so sick.
Years ago when I first became acquainted with the internet and computers, I ran across the term "Fractal Cosmology" and was further amazed! The general theory behind Fractal Cosmology is there being universes within universes on and on ad infinitum. I could not side with there being universes within universes onto infinity. The time dilatations between ever smaller and ever larger universes just could not hold weight for such a revelation to be truthful.
That's why I began to realize that there could only be three cosmological orders of relevancy worth noting. The atomic cosmos and the celestial cosmos and the cellular cosmos. These three chasms of cosmologic orders seem to make sense and the time constraints seem right. Our timeframe of one day would be say as being a thousand years inside the atomic scaled cosmos and but a few moments upon the celestial scale of the outer realm cosmos.
Am I pseudo-intellectualizing again or are you understanding somewhat?
Fractals are simply mathematical constructs. They may mimic nature coincidentally, but certainly don't explain any physical process.
So the self-righteous LionyLamb was indeed abusive, his life has been a trainwreck, and with only a tiny bit of sobriety he thinks he has a special insight and communication with the invisiblesuper man in the sky.
Well that certainly explains everything.
Yes, you are still pseudo-intellectualizing, because all of these concepts have no basing in reality, and redifines words to make it sound better. You have really explained nothing as far as I can see. Not to mention, as Athy points out, Fractal is a mathematical concept, and you seem to be misapplying it to something completely unrelated. I have no idea where your time dilation thing came from, what's your calculations, how does it "work". None of what you said actually changes anything.
The above site deals in "Self-Similar Cosmological Paradigms"
Although "Athy" is 'half-right' but many Fractal theories consider there being universes within universes ad infinitum but like I said, the time constraints regarding unlimited universes going on forever inwardly and outwardly cannot be maintained due the partialities of constraining Time.
There in the above "Google" are 400.000 plus sites regarding "Fractal Cosmology". They can't all be talking pseudo-intellectual foolery.
As far as I'm reading, fractal cosmology is more along the lines of distribution of matter, not the actual similarity in structures you seem to be advocating.
The distribution and/or redistributions of matter are the issues of the three cosmological orders I have so written upon. The "atomic" cosmology within the celestial cosmology's constraints are either planetary or star born fundaments and such atomized elements are also found within the constraints of all cellular cosmologies. Without atomized constraints of celestial origins there could be no cellular divisions of living sub-micrometric cosmologies.
We or rather all celestially-based atomized cellular cosmologies are a product of self-similar designations of produced leveraging upon an atomized planetary object of celestial variances found to be rightly coordinated for cellular Life cosmologies to be afforded the abilities toward evolving from a1st made singular celled atomized cosmological ordinated oneness to end up in finality's ways finally reaching the multi-cellular micro-cosmological beings we call humans
I'm sorry but I cannot reduce my sentencing lengths. .
Oh yes you could. Your falling back into coloring your entire response with completely unnecessary pseudo-intellectual garbage to mask what your actually saying, which is that heavier elements are derived from the byproducts of dying stars, and since that is true, you call the elements that the earth, and everything on it, and the system of natural progression it goes through a new cosmology. All you're doing is restating your position, not addressing my criticisms and questions about it. You're continuing to redifine words like cosmology to fit your pet thoughts.
"I'm sorry but I cannot reduce my sentencing lengths."
This sentence is exactly what I'm talking about. "Sentencing"? Really? Is it so difficult to write
"Sorry, but I can't reduce the length of my sentences." The use of the phrase "sentencing lengths" is a very strange use of grammer structure, and really shows nothing except for your continued attempts to seem smarter than the hypothesis you're proposing. If you want to continue the conversation, then drop the theatrics and say your peace in a concise way.
Mathew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God!"
John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world!"
Luke 17:21, "The kingdom of God is inside you!"
1Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building!"
"ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building!"
Oh no, LL, you don't want to hold that stuff in. You have to keep things running smoothly. Eat some prunes before you go to bed if necessary.
ye are ye brother's husbandry, lamby
"In those parts of the world where learning and science have prevailed, miracles have ceased; but in those parts of it as are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue." –Ethan Allen (1738-1789)
I have been reading some material lately; not of my own denomination, and it is of little surprise to me that there are so many questions that this lady has. This may sound very critical, but if the churches would just teach Bible truth there would not be so many questions. For instance, she said her son could not understand how a person could walk about without a body. I can’t either, nor does the Bible teach any such thing. I believe the question comes from the erroneous teaching that a ‘bodiless’ spirit goes to heaven and then later God resurrects the body so the spirit has some place to live. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches this.
Another thing: Why should a lost soul suffer a burning fire forever? I know that some churches teach this, but there is nothing in the Bible that teaches it.
This is only a couple of erroneous teachings of many churches, there are many more.
The question of “Why does God allow so many terrible things to happen?” This is a legitimate question. The answer can only come through careful Bible study. The answer is: all these terrible things happen because man sinned and when he did this world became the dominion of Satan and he is the cause of all the tragedies; and they will continue until mankind has filled his cup of iniquities. God does intercede at times, but for His own reasons, which I confess, I, nor anyone else knows why, this is where faith must be had. If you want to deny faith, that is your choice. I’m no different than anyone else; I suffer loss, pain, discouragement and tragedies like anyone else, but I must continue in faith because God in His love will someday rescue me from all this misery so long as I keep the faith.
Believers have had 2,000+ years to prove their myth is true. They have failed miserably. We're way past the "nice people don't question religion" days. As time goes on, it is more and more obvious religion is all bullsh!t just like astrology. Or can you differentiate your silly beliefs from astrology?
That's about the worst response to the problem of evil that I have ever seen.
nobody in particular,
Do you believe Jesus was bodily resurrected?
How do you interpret the following to scriptures?
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection
1 Corinthians 15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and who.remongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
While you're dumping quotes on us from the Christian book of nasty, Robert, take a look at these choice demands from your evil sky fairy:
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
Robert, I interpret those scriptures to be the musings of philosophical men who were attempting to define rules for the infinite. In other words, they're meaningless except in a personal, poetic way in which the meaning is tied up with the person doing the reading.
Yor not supposed to pay attention to those Bob! It was for a different time! The new Testament!!! (but ingore the "be the best slave you can possibly be" parts)
Book was put together from ignorance.... as for God has his own reasons for interceding or not..... yeah its called there is no God...hense the randomness of people getting well, good thing happening to bad people and the reverse...
Catch a bleeding clue!
Re: "The answer is: all these terrible things happen because man sinned and when he did this world became the dominion of Satan and he is the cause of all the tragedies; and they will continue until mankind has filled his cup of iniquities."
So you're saying, your God threw a hissy-fit because one pair of humans was insolent enough to disobey him. He threw his hands up, let the world he created go to pieces, and thus condemned uncountable billions of other humans to suffer, for no other reason than that he was furious that two of them disobeyed him?
Please, explain how this is not a juvenile overreaction, if not a downright malicious decision. Assuming this really happened, the kind of immature deity who would pull such a twisted, childish stunt deserves no one's worship and everyone's scorn.
@Robert: "Do you believe Jesus was bodily resurrected?" Nope. I definitely do not. Every gospel describing it is very different in virtually every detail. It reads like four people lying. No, I don't believe Jesus went Zombie. Not at all.
I interpret all scriptures as the ancient superstitions of a primitive Middle Eastern peasant culture. Which they are. Nothing has ever proven thesupernatural claims to be true. Nothing.
@ Robert Brown: This is just what I was talking about. Study!
In Rom 15:5 Paul is talking about baptisim which is likened to death, i.e. we die to sin.
In !Cor 15:12, Paul is queztioning unbelievers, He is asking a question.
Death means yo die–when you die you do not continue to live; that is what the resurection is all about, being raised from death.
In Revelation, those people DIE, they will no longer live.
@A Wish Called Fonda,
fabulous handle by the way!
Do you happen to be a fan of Henry or Jane, or just Idle/Cleese/Kline/Curtis?
Peter. I'm a fan of my Peter/
Peter, of course. Why did I leave him out?
To RB, of course I don't believe jesus was resurrected! I don't believe that any gods exist or that jesus, if he existed, was divine. Now go ahead and prove that I'm wrong.
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