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January 24th, 2013
05:52 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Thursday, January 24, 2013

By Arielle Hawkins, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

Belief on TV:

CNN: Response by the Church of Scientology to 'Going Clear'
In response to CNN's request for comment on its story about Lawrence Wright's book "Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood & the Prison of Belief," the network received several letters from the Church of Scientology and its attorneys. Given the sensitive nature of the material in the book and the Church of Scientology's detailed response to CNN, CNN is making the church's responses available in full. The e-mail addresses and telephone numbers of individuals have been redacted.

CNN: Inside the Church of Scientology
Author Lawrence Wright talks about "Going Clear," which explores the secret operations inside the Church of Scientology.

Tweet of the Day:

Enlightening Reads:

Reuters: MP’s call to burn Bibles heightens election tensions in Malaysia
Malaysia’s Bar Council said on Wednesday an independent member of parliament should be prosecuted on grounds he called for the mass burning of Bibles as religious tensions flare ahead of a tight election which must be held within months.

BBC: Fr. Tony Flannery 'threatened with excommunication'
Fr Tony Flannery, a high-profile Irish priest, is known for his liberal views on contraception and homosexuality. Last year, he was disciplined by the Vatican's watchdog, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF). He claims he has now been asked to sign a pledge, supporting official church teaching on sexual matters. He claimed that accepting the pledge would also mean that he "fully accepted all the teaching on homosexuality" including the church's use of what he called "some of the awfully unfortunate phrases – like disordered state and intrinsic evil".

Religion News Service: Poll shows a double standard on religious liberty
Half of Americans worry that religious freedom in the U.S. is at risk, and many say activist groups — particularly gays and lesbians — are trying to remove “traditional Christian values” from the public square. The findings of a poll published Wednesday (Jan. 23), reveal a “double standard” among a significant portion of evangelicals on the question of religious liberty, said David Kinnaman, president of Barna Group, a California think tank that studies American religion and culture. While these Christians are particularly concerned that religious freedoms are being eroded in this country, “they also want Judeo-Christians to dominate the culture,” said Kinnamon.

Huffington Post: Roger Ross Williams, Filmmaker, Connects Christianity To Uganda's Homophobia
Academy Award-winning filmmaker Roger Ross Williams debuted his newest film, "God Loves Uganda", at the Sundance Film Festival over the weekend. The documentary takes a close look at the relationship between Christian missionaries and homophobia in Uganda, including the country's controversial "Kill The Gays" bill. In an interview with Queerty, Williams states that Ugandan pastors ostracize gays, single mothers and rape victims, all in the name of God.

Catholic News Agency: Vatican hopes to resume accepting credit card payments
With credit card transactions suspended in Vatican City since the new year, three-way talks are due to be held among the stakeholders on Jan. 25 to help resolve the situation. “The parties have resumed work and in the course of next week there will be a technical meeting,” the Italian wire service ANSA was told Jan. 17. Italy's central bank, the Bank of Italy – analogous to America's Federal Reserve – refused to authorize Deutsche Bank Italia to transact foreign credit cards in tiny city-state beginning Jan. 1.

Huffington Post: Graffiti Church: Artist Hense Gives Place Of Worship A Wildly Colorful Makeover
We can certainly appreciate the beauty in the classical aesthetic that so often characterizes sites of religious observance. But sometimes even traditional venues need a radical makeover. Graffiti artist Hense did just that to a former church in Washington D.C.'s up-and-coming arts district. The artist got to work with the help of a small crew, using rollers, brushes, spray paint, inks, acrylics, mops, enamels and paint sprayers to cover every inch of the edifice in popping hues. After several weeks, the white church was transformed into a rainbow splattered objet d'art.

Join the conversation…

King: Obama MLK Bible use 'heartwarming'
Bernice King, daughter of Martin Luther King Jr., on of President Obama using her father's Bible for his inauguration.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (370 Responses)
  1. New Athiest

    Another mistakein the 'word of god'
    The Bible doesn't reflect that we live on a spinning, revolving, sphere... which I would think that God would have known and would have inspired the authors to tell, but he didn't.
    The term "ends of the earth" is used quite a bit in the Bible. The term 'ends of the earth' is a saying today. When the Bible was written it wasn't a figure of speech... it was a fact. There are no ends on a sphere. Even as late as 1492, people were convinced that silly old Columbus was going to fall off of the earth. There are no ends on a sphere.
    Job 38:13 speaks of the earth being taken by the physical ends with "That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?"
    Daniel 4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
    Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)
    The only way to see the entire earth from a high place would be if the world were flat.
    The ends of the earth isn't the only signs of the flat earth in the Bible. In Job 11:9 it says that heaven and hell's measurements are "Their measure is longer than the earth And broader than the sea". How long is a sphere? There is no length in a sphere. Now a flat two dimensional object would have a length.

    January 24, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • niknak

      I appreciate the attempt, but you are just wasting your time trying to use the babble to argue with a fundie.
      Anything that supports a fundies position in the babble is taken are the word of god.
      But anything that goes against their arguement, is a scribe error, refers to some other part, or can't be interpreted by mortal men correctly.

      You would have more luck trying to make your dog understand why you have to pay the phone bill then you will trying to show a fundie why the stuff in the babble is just a myth.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Good Grief...try this one on for size: "To the ends of the earth I'll follow my star To the ends of the earth Just to be where you are." These are lyrics by Nat King Cole–obviously he believed in a flat earth too. (Or perhaps–its just an expression?)

      January 24, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • New Athiest

      @niknak
      You're right, of course.
      But I am a vain and jealous commenter, and the philosophical arguements were getting stale.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • VanHagar

      NA–please provide your authority which provides that a "flat earth" belief was considered true is "fact," and what authority do you have that says its something more than merely a "saying"? I can pull conclusions out of my backside too.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      o He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
      NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22
      The Hebrew word used in the original text is "Chug", which means a flat circle, like a coin.
      The word for orb/ball is "Dur".

      It also appears that the concept of orbital rotation was unknown to those who wrote the Bible given that they state the earth is immovable and inert.
      "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."
      – Psalm 104:5
      "The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." Ecclesiastes 1:5

      January 24, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • VCTV

      > These are lyrics by Nat King Cole–obviously he believed in a flat earth too. (Or perhaps–its just an expression?)

      Haha. Thank you for that.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • BRC

      Topher/VanHagaar, Just in case you missed it below, I would really like to discuss this one.-
      Leprosy, now known as Hansen's disease, is a completely curable bacterial infection. If the Bible is the inerrant word of "God", why does it tell people to use a complex ritual of burning and sacrificing birds that does absolutely nothing to cure the disease, instead of telling them to culture and grow the right kind of mold to cure the disease? A loving "God" who is never wrong would provide the cure. Now, if the book is just the work of men who were trying to controll a population, and they didn't know how to cure the disease but kew that it was contagious, then inventing a ritual that isolated an infected person from the rest of the population adn telling them it was the will of there god makes perfect sense. What do you say to that?

      January 24, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • VCTV

      BRC

      I just googled "Hansen's disease bible"

      There is not a lot of conclusive evidence that The Bible was indicating Hansen's Disease.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • VCTV

      http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Bible/Torah/Leviticus/tzaraat.shtml

      January 24, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Another instance of a religious person saying "The bible says what I want it to say, not what it actually says. After all, you can't expect an all-knowing all powerful being trying to supposedly give us the most important message ever to be implicit. That's just crazy".

      January 24, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • BRC

      VCTV,
      I see. So the degenerative skin condition described in the bible and comonly translated as leprosy (and referenced as lesprosy in other parts of the bible as well), is not the very real disease that matches the symptoms and was known to be common in the region at the time, but was in fact a spiritual malody, that there is no supporting evidence of, and that has never been seen since. I'm sorry, but that'snot a very realistic explanation.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • VCTV

      Another case of a person trying to interpret what someone said so that the words mean what you want and not what the speaker wanted.

      Another case of a person stereotyping religious people.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • VCTV

      > BRC

      I'm not really familiar with this subject. I googled and saw there are cases supporting and disputing the claim.

      You didn't cite a specific book, but just said "The Bible". I'm assuming this is Leviticus you are talking about?

      January 24, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • BRC

      VCTV,
      Yes, Leviticus 13 in the KJ Bible describes the prcoess for "healing" leprosy.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • BRC

      VCTV,
      Apologies, 13 is diagnosing, 14 is healing.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • VCTV

      If I get an opportunity I'll test it out and let you know how well it works (or not).

      January 24, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • BRC

      Fair enough, I am always a fan of the scientific method.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • VCTV

      Apparently, it is illegal to burn birds in the Chicago city limits. Damn atheist law, I'm sure. This might take a few days.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Zippy D. Doodaa

      It is illegal to burn birds in the Chicago city limits" – sounds like Deutronomy.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      There's strange laws all over the place. For instance, here in hawaii, it's state law to own a boat or face a fine, even though it's not enforced, it's in the books.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • Zingo

      Mandatory boat ownership. Wouldn't that just screw up god's complicated slaughter-everybody Ark scheme?

      So did nobody else have boats in Noah's day?

      January 24, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
  2. lionlylamb

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6ySG8XOmW4&w=640&h=390]

    January 24, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • meifumado

      I listened to 10 min of this crap,This man is no scientist he is a quack.
      What religious radio show did you get this from?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • niknak

      That is some creepy stuff there cowardlylion.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • midwest rail

      " Creation science " is not science. It is self-fulfilling nonsense.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • These are the People of Jesus

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvxNgdFeWqM&w=640&h=390]

      January 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
  3. New Athiest

    @truth be told
    The bible has mistakes.
    According to Leviticus 11:5-6 Rabbits (Coney) chew their cud and because of this they are unclean. Last time I checked, rabbits don't chew cud.
    According to the Bible, our brother mammal, the bat, is a bird. This one has been debated through e-mail quite a bit, but if one looks in Leviticus 11:13 a list of Fowls is started, and the Bat is included in this list in Leviticus 11:19.

    January 24, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Topher

      Wow. These complaints are old. As far as rabbits, look at Encyclopedia Brittanica's entry on the subject. And bats as birds, the word used is something like "owph" and means "winged creature" not bird, so there's mistakes here. In fact, there's none in the Bible.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Topher

      * NO mistakes here ....

      January 24, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Billy

      Topher – how did the giant turtles get back to the Galapagos. You said Noah's ark didn't have to really go very far. So it like dropped them off at Gibraltar and they had to swim the rest of the way back to the Galapgos?? (and that was before there was any canal for them to go through)... I'm just not buying that.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Topher's right–these are getting old. I've read here often that atheists/skeptics often "know" more about the Bible than believers, but what I see is that while you may have read the Bible, you haven't taken the time to actually study it–which may require looking at outside resources. Too often the "Bible contradicts itself" argument is a made up debate by lazy observers. New Atheist–if you have other contradictions you want to cut and paste here (as, more often than not, is the case), I'm sure Topher and I can address them (again).

      January 24, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • New Athiest

      Of course they are old. They are from the bible!
      When the new revision comes out, i'll review it and have some NEW questions.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      "Topher's right–these are getting old. "

      That's because the challenges have been around as long as the claim has been made.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • Topher

      ¿¿lol

      "That's because the challenges have been around as long as the claim has been made."

      I don't mind the Bible being "challenged" ... I have no fear it won't stand up against the scrutiny. My problem is when the atheists' complaints aren't obviously their own. They've taken some talking points from a website or a book that was written to "get" the Christians ... some "gotcha" statements that are meant to throw us off or to somehow disprove the Bible. The problem is it's weak garbage like "bats aren't birds" that has been answered over and over again and which anyone who has done any studying can answer away without blinking. Atheists, if you choose to reject the Bible's claims, that's fine. It's your choice. But do it because of your own insights and reviews, not because some atheist smartypants has a clever blog.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      I don't know if spinning meaning and word usage count as addressing something.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      If Christianity had such a solid case, then you shouldn't be bothered with any challenges then Topher, pasted or freshly ground.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      “The kingdom of heaven is like a musta.rd seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches,” (Matthew 13:31)

      Since Jesus states that the musta.rd plants grows into a tree, He is most likely referring to the Brassica ni.gra type, since it can grow to be about 10 feet. The other types of must.ard plant (which, incidentally, have smaller seeds than the BN type) grow into small bushes in which birds do not nest.
      The seed of Brassica ni.gra is larger than that of Coelogyne pandurata (Black Orchid), which was a plant known to Christ's contemporaries.

      And let's not forget the mentions of unicorns (Isaiah 34:7), half man half goat beasts (Isaiah 13:21 and 34:14), flaming snakes (Numbers 21:6), seven headed dragons (Revelation 12:3) and serpents that can kill just by looking at you (Jeremiah 8:17)?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      And pleast note: the above debate point was not cut and pasted from an atheist website – it is based on my own botanical research.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Topher

      ¿¿lol

      "If Christianity had such a solid case, then you shouldn't be bothered with any challenges then Topher, pasted or freshly ground."

      It does have a solid case. And I don't mind the challenges, as I said. But when you read the post by New Atheist, you can almost hear the giggle and the self-righteous pride in such a weak statement. If I need to answer this stuff every day, how will we ever get down to the real meat of a discussion?How will we get down to the nitty gritty of why some of you don't believe or why we DO believe? I don't believe for a second he was curiously looking through the Bible and came across the passages about rabbits and bats. No. He read it somewhere and thought, 'I've got those silly Christians now.' As if we don't have answers for this stuff.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • End Religion

      Why does the bible say bats are birds?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Topher

      You ignore the real meat of the discussion. That being that there is no evidence of A god, let alone YOUR god.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • BRC

      Topher/VanHagaar-
      Leprosy, now known as Hansen's disease, is a completely curable bacterial infection. If the Bible is the inerrant word of "God", why does it tell people to use a complex ritual of burning and sacrificing birds that does absolutely nothing to cure the disease, instead of telling them to culture and grow the right kind of mold to cure the disease? A loving "God" who is never wrong would provide the cure. Now, if the book is just the work of men who were trying to controll a population, and they didn't know how to cure the disease but kew that it was contagious, then inventing a ritual that isolated an infected person from the rest of the population adn telling them it was the will of there god makes perfect sense. What do you say to that?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of SEVERE mental illness

      Lets not forget people who were mentally ill were thought to have a demon in them.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • niknak

      BRC,
      A kind and loving god would not have even created Hansen's disease in the first place.
      Or childhood cancer, or down syndrome, or Parkinson's, or any other horrible affliction that we have.

      But maybe this god is not so loving.
      It did drown all those people in the flood, plus all the other horrible events in the Old Testi_cle.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of SEVERE mental illness

      God is flawless so is his word. If there are flaws in the writings of man then man has corrupted the word and the word no longer has any integrity. Otherwise writings from 1000's of years ago that were supposedly passed by word of mouth for 1000 of years prior to being written have about as much value as a pile of $ h it

      January 24, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "Atheists, if you choose to reject the Bible's claims, that's fine. It's your choice. But do it because of your own insights and reviews, not because some atheist smartypants has a clever blog."

      While I agree that some comments by Atheists, and Theists alike, are silly, especially the name-calling, but expecting all-original concepts is a bit much. Especially since the entire basis for your religion/faith, it seems, is based on the works of others, i.e. the Bible.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Billy

      Sigh – another day, and still no explanation about my turtles from Topher.... I think they just expired only a few miles into the Atlantic from Gibraltar actually.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @BIlly
      Dont' feel too bad.
      Notice that nobody has addressed by points either....

      January 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
  4. lionlylamb

    I know not God yet I know about godliness in its many varied rationalisms. Who among us celestially manifested malignancies know with unabated certainties the sounded rudiments of minded Godheads within our valued socialisms of the herded varieties? Who do you put 'soundly' upon your own throne of psychic reasoning, your mate or your child or a governing official? Maybe an athlete? Perhaps a religious Pharisee of today's reckoning?

    January 24, 2013 at 12:40 pm |

    • Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I'm the most anaplastic of celestial malignancies!

      January 24, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Sorry Ooh but your name is unknown to me, therefore I have no way to pick and choose you. You synergism seems enlightening though! Until you pick a name of soundness and dare project it, I a unable the pick you. :-(

      January 24, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
  5. VCTV

    The Kindgdom of God is within.

    Those who think I believe in 'imaginary sky men' are wrong.

    A lot of people see the "Status Quo" try to apply the Gospel of Jesus Christ to their way of living. But it doesn't hold water.

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ goes against our "Status Quo". Always has. Research it, it will turn your world upside down.

    January 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Mathew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God!"

      John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world!"

      Luke 17:21, "The kingdom of God is inside you!"

      1Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building!"

      January 24, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • End Religion

      why do you believe in imaginary sky men?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • VCTV

      Because I don't.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
  6. captain evil

    Let's not forget to do our part to erode American values today.

    January 24, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • niknak

      Dude, I'm all over it!
      I just love to errode all those American xtian values.
      When I am not going that, I am in some gay leather bar plotting the overthrow of the government.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
  7. truth be told

    When the rest of the world looks at the crimes atheists have committed, the best possible contribution the current atheist can give humanity is to commit suicide.

    January 24, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I guess this is your best contribution to humanity.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • truth be told

      Truth be told, an atheist free world be a great contribution to the world and would spare uncounted millions death and suffering.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Truth be told, we're not going to commit suicide. Do you have another Solution?

      January 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • an atheist

      I'm sad because truth be told's mom did NOT let me put it in her butt last night.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Y

      @truth be told,

      Why don't you just run on off to the arms of Jesus? That's where you want to be, right?

      (hint: you just have to say, "Forgive me, Lord" right after you swallow the bottle of pills - it'll all be fine)

      January 24, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but, unfortunately, all of your assertions to date have been unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • meifumado

      Please list these crimes and the perpetrators.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • VCTV

      hal bot is back.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • meifumado

      Still waiting on that list.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
  8. BRC

    A question for my fellow athiests: Have you ever suffered direct discrimination or hostility because of your non-belief?

    Honestly, I've been lucky. My lack of religion has never had a subtantive negative effect on my life (so far). I've had some heated debates, but nothing more than that. Maybe it's because I'm quite about it until asked, or because I've been fortunate to only befriend people who were open minded (I do have some friends who are VERY religious, but they're all the tolerant, you do your thing I'll do mine variety). I've certainly never run for public office, but I do serve in the armed forces; so maybe I've just been well insulated. Interested in hearing other's experiences.

    January 24, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Big time...my friend's Mother preached one day about taking prayer out of school...there's a picture going around the interwebs that is basically a kid writing to god. I politely tried to explain the fallacy in that and quickly was told where I was supposedly going for not believing. Shortly thereafter, I gave an honest answer to a question she asked, someone else came back with a similar response...she made it blatantly clear that the other person's answer was more trustworthy...so without directly speaking it, it was obvious.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Saraswati

      Being a non-believer hasn't has any real issues in my life, except a minor annoyance every few years. But I have no kids, don't have a religious family, and have limited the amount of time I lived in the South. If I lived in Texas or had kids at a public school where evolution wasn't taught properly I would have bigger issues.

      On the other hand, I'm a lesbian whose marriage many Christians want to dissolve and this has much bigger impacts. We will face potential inheritance issues without national recognition of our marriage and already had to jump through immigration hoops that most gay couples spanning borders couldn't have managed. Until recently we also had frequent difficulties with our insurance plans, though that is less serious. So being a lesbian in a Christian world is a much bigger problem for me than being a non-believer.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      I never really have, but I find it easier to just play along like I'm a believer.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • myweightinwords

      I am not atheist (though I keep getting lumped in with y'all...at least it's good company). I have had a lot of hostility over the years since I became Pagan. Even got my own protest once (they were trying to get me kicked out of my apartment complex). My car was continuously tract-bombed badly enough that I had to go out ten minutes early every morning to clean the tracts off my windshield/out from under windshield wipers/out of cracks.

      It hasn't been as bad in recent years though.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • BRC

      @Truth,
      I can easily see that one, though I've been lucky enough to avoid (or too dense to notice it) so far. I'm waiting for the awkward conversation to come up with my wife's rather religious Catholic family, but as of now it's still just hanging there waiting to happen.

      @Saraswati,
      Yeah, the religious anti-LGBT agenda is mind numbingly stupid, sorry you have to deal with that for the next few years (should be done in our lifetime though). As to your other point, I agree that geography probably has a lot to do with it. I've spent a lot of years in Virginia, which is plenty religious, but I've been fortunate that my entire life has been spent in military towns, so they were a bit more freely diversified and had a more watered down culture then the surrounding locales. (Don't know how I'd do in say Texas, Mississippi or Flori-bama).

      @lunchbreaker,
      that's sort of what prompted me to think of the question. A friend of mine is a non-believer who lives out in rural VA, and she feels worried because she is surrounded by very religious people, so she feels the need to hide her beliefs. That's always confused me, because I couldn't think of what them knowing she didn't believe could do to her (because I've never experienced negative consequences), so I was looking to see if anyone else had ideas.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      I'm not the one who starts the conversation. Like talking about pot I feel out the crowd so to speak. Our neighbors are religious and we have discussed our atheism but we get along great, even share a common purchased lawn mower. But some who have learned my position on god have never spoken to me again. And that'[s fine by me. People like that aren't worth knowing.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • VCTV

      I was an atheist for about 18 years. I went to a secular college. Worked in a secular business. The only time I was really around preaching was when I went to church with a family member as a favor. And those people were pretty nice.

      Oh, and weddings and funerals. I hated Christianity and religion. I hated the narrow mindedness. And then I realized I was the narrow minded one. And I stopped hating and started accepting people with different points of view from me.

      Life is better now.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • BRC

      myweightinwords,
      Yeah, I've seen plenty of that with my friends who are pagan. I've always considered it ironic. I understand how a religious person can disagree with an atheist, we stand diametrically opposed on a majroe life issue. But the reaction of mono-theists to poly-theists has always confused me. What I've always seen is mono regarding as crazy, witches, or cultists; which makes absolutely no sense, because if you're willing to believe in one god why wouldn't you be able to believe in several? Your beliefs are at least related, the atheists view is the polar opposite, you would think they would disagree with/dislike us more, but honestly I don't know that they do.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • VCTV

      My point is, I don't feel I was discriminated against when I didn't believe. And I live in the bible belt.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • fred

      After my conversion I found it was atheists that were intolerant because my lifestyle changed. Those atheist friends that I still ride with find my beliefs to be reflective of lack of knowledge or “lower intellect” which they simply did not observe previously. In their defense I am very different than before my conversion. I detect a level of hostility when they attack the things of God which is different than when we are just poking at each other about things such as talking serpents.

      I see them differently than before as now they are in jeopardy of eternal consequence. If I see them differently than before then yes there is a level of discrimination that was not present before.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:50 am |
    • niknak

      I too have been fortunate not to have had any negative situations arise because of my non belief.
      But I live in a large metropolitan city, have non religious family/friends and don't have children.
      I do work with fundies, and I get excluded from all the raindeer games (parties, gatherings etc).

      And I am not included in their afterwork activities when we travel on the road.
      Which is fine as those activities are either going to casinos or strip clubs.
      Fundies just love themselves some of those two things.

      I am also lucky my advancement at my gig is not based on decisions by the fundies I work with. Not sure how that would go if it was up to them.
      They mostly leave me be, and don't try to preach to me anymore.
      But I am definately NOT someone they will ever see as an equal.

      They also live way out in the sticks, and would never venture into the city anyway. And I get the heebie jibbies if I don't have concrete beneath my feet.
      So I am kinda glad they do exclude me.

      I think it would be very different for a non believer in the South, or one that came from a fundie family or married someone from one.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Mormons and Jehovahs come to my door. I let them in...we talk for a bit. They spin their message and I debunk whatever they say. It's fun and good debate practice. This is the only regular situation where I am not wary of speaking about atheism. They are normally very curious and ask lots of questions. Doesn't change their minds of course. I usually ask them how they get received at other homes. I know they get a lot of doors slammed in their faces. Interestingly enough it's the Christians who are the most rude...go figure.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • meifumado

      I had a really hard time with my ex girl friends parents when it came out, They are elders at their church and once they knew I was a non believer I was treated like crap by them and of course that took its toll on my relationship with my ex, which was a shame, even though she hated being forced as a child to go to bible camp,church and etc, when we would start talking about kids and stuff she would insist that if we got married we would need to move close to her parents so the children could go to her parents church, I told her no children of mine would be indoctrinated into religion, we split up a few months after that.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • BRC

      @Athiest Steve,
      I also have no problem breaking contact with someone who vehemently disagrees with me and doesn't want to discuss it rationally. I'll debate anything with anyone for ever, but I also have no problem not talking to people, so I think it's possible (probable) that there are people that are a bit grudgy with me that I've just never noticed because I don't care or take the time to interact with them. Seems like the easier way to live to me. And I also agree that different faiths DO NOT have to be a permanent dividing line, reasonable people will get along, regardless of differences.

      VCTV,
      Glad you manages to not have any negative effects, and that you no longer feel an internal conflict. Because I've never been a militant atheist (people can believe what they want as long as it doesn't affect me I couldn't care less) I've never foudn myself burdend by feelings of hatred. I am occasionally saddened by what I see to be detrimental effects of religions and groupthink, but that's part of my distrust of religion, not my personal disbelief.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      meifumado

      I completely agree. That's a deal breaker for me also.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • Akira

      Fred:
      "I see them differently than before as now they are in jeopardy of eternal consequence."
      Do you tell them this?

      " If I see them differently than before then yes there is a level of discrimination that was not present before."
      Meaning you can now see where believers discriminate, whereas before you didn't notice that because you didn't believe yourself?

      Just trying to understand your post.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • niknak

      @ atheistStevieWonder,

      I have the same thing happen where I live. I get visited by various religious types on a weekly basis. I am usually gone during the time they are out, and have to clean up their literature from my steps before it rains and turns to mush.
      But on occasion I am here, and when they say "Can we talk to you about god" I let them in and we talk, about god.
      I give them the reason I don't believe, and they tell me why they do.
      No shouting or argueing, just a kinda aukward conversation, especailly when I tell them I am not interested in going to their place of worship.
      Have you ever read the little comics that the Jehova Witnesses leave?
      Those are really funny. I like to put on some tunes, open a brew and read them for the laugh factor.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I'm a scientist by profession and I've been associated with higher learning, medical institutions and the like for most of my life. Overtly religious beliefs never come up in conversation. Among friends, well, there's such an odd mix of beliefs and non-belief that everyone gets along by some ancient silent agreement. I think I'd have to go in search of hostility to experience it. Maybe walk into a Church of Christ service and declare "Jesus was just this guy, you know?"

      January 24, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • VCTV

      > I am occasionally saddened by what I see to be detrimental effects of religions and groupthink, but that's part of my distrust of religion, not my personal disbelief.

      I am, too.

      But it is nothing exclusive to religious people. A guy on here named "The Anvil" probably demonstrates deplorable behavior I strive to avoid. He seems proud to not be 'religious.' But he is still a jerk.

      I've met religious jerks. I've met kindhearted religious people.

      I've met atheist jerks. I've met kindhearted atheist people.

      I judge people how they act. That is what is important.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • BRC

      @fred,
      sorry to hear that your friend's behavior changed. I truly think that we should all be able to let others believe what they want and stay out of it, and judge them more by their behavior than their beliefs. that being said, maybe they felt that the way you acted changed along with what you believed, and it was something you didn't notice because of the major shift in your faith/lifestyle. Not an excuse, just a possible explanation.

      @niknak,
      Yes, working for the very religious when you are a non-believer can be really stressful (working with is for me dismissible as long as they have no direct effect on my job). I've heard lots of stories of fellow service members getting hosed by their devout bosses in the past, and it used to be more of an issue than it is now, so I've spent most of my still very short career waiting for that shoe to fall. Hasn't yet fortunately. AS for hanging out with the devoutly religious outside of when you have to, I've always thought of it like heaven and hell. If I die, and find out that I'm wrong, hell is where pretty much everyone who's any fun is going anyway, so I'll pick the company over geography.

      @meifumado,
      Like I said before, I'm waiting for that conversation to happen (I've heard snippets of conversations between family members, but nothing directed to me yet). The child thing is tricky, I agree to having our son baptized, because child birth looked utterly horrible so letting a priest sprinkle some water on the baby is the least I can do. Fortunately my wife is FAR more moderate and reasonable than most of her family, and she agreed that we won't raise the kids in any religion unless or until they tell us that they want to experience one. Let it be their choice, instead of making them accept our choice. Also still waiting to have that conversation with her family (who don't really understand why we're not teaching him to say grace and Amen).

      January 24, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      All in all being a non believer in a world filled with believers is a peculiar feeling. I'm 6'3" tall and if I'm in a large gathering of people My vantage point is one of a sea of the tops of heads with a few other tall heads sticking out like low bushes. Being an atheist is a lot like that. You are keenly aware that almost everyone around you lives in a world obscured by a fantasy. It's kind of bizarre.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • VCTV

      AtheistSteve

      I think that is called having an inflated ego. Be careful, the next step is usually becoming obnoxious.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      niknak
      Jehovahs usually leave watchtower publications...filled with ID junk science. Mormons have given me a KJV bible(I lost mine) and a Book of Mormon. But for shits and giggles I just go to Chick Tracts.

      VCTV
      Sorry but people who think they have a relationship with the creator of the universe have a lock on ego. But thanks for playing.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      VCTV: Nah, I live with AtheistSteve...his ego isn't inflated. He's one of the most intelligent, easy going people of this earth. He doesn't get in people's faces about much, if he did then I'd be inclined to say he has an inflated ego.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Akira

      I can honestly say that my friends and I do not discuss our beliefs; it simply never comes up.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • VCTV

      > Sorry but people who think they have a relationship with the creator of the universe have a lock on ego. But thanks for playing.

      I do have a relationship with God. So do you. He created us that way.

      I DO have an ego problem. I can admit that. Most people do have one. I'm glad you don't. Pretty remarkable.

      I have to work to keep my ego in check. What I try to do is humble myself through prayer with God. Getting on my knees and confessing my shortcomings. It helps.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      "I do have a relationship with God. So do you. He created us that way. "

      The first part is certainly true in your mind. The rest is a non sequitur...as in it doesn't apply.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      @BRC, while I'm not *really* a polytheist (what I believe about diety is complex and even gets most Pagan heads spinning, LOL...current terms/labels are...inadequate...I'm somewhere in the midst of animist/polytheist/pantheist/panentheist), I do understand you.

      It's largely tied up in those who believe wholeheartedly that their god is the only god ever and anyone who follows another god is actually unknowingly following the devil, who they insist is NOT a god, and yet they give him god-like qualities...

      It'll spin you around if you let it.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm |

    • Relationships with the Creator summarized:

      x→{y | y ῭ ∅ }

      January 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • the AnViL

      VCTV spittled: "I do have a relationship with God"

      well – that makes sense. no wonder you're so easily offended when someone posits the truth... that people who believe in flatly fictional, non-existent beings suffer from delusional thinking.

      it's ok though – even isaac newton suffered from delusional thinking... and he invented the calculus and the first useful texts on optics...

      not that you're anywhere near his caliber.... just sayin...

      it's common... even some smart people suffer from delusional thinking.

      *chortle*

      January 24, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • VCTV

      We are created in God's image. And God loves us.

      It also created powerful things, like the sun. But it didn't create the sun in its image. The sun doesn't know I exist. I know the sun exists. That's how I'm created in its image.

      And this power that created me in its image – is way smarter than you. Its understanding is not limited by our earthly understandings. And you can have access to it if you want. Just ask.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • meifumado

      @VCTV

      You say you have a relationship with god, you do know this is just in your head yes? It's called wishful thinking.
      Also you say you prey, Preying does nothing , Once again it's wish thinking and it has no effect on the world , it may make you feel good but you do not need to humble yourself to a fairy tale to do that.
      I do respect you for saying you have an ego and that most do, I agree

      "When one person is delusional its called insanity,
      When many are delusional its called religion"

      January 24, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • VCTV

      the AnViL

      I appreciate a good debate. I even learn from non-believers, people of other faiths, agnostics, skeptics and atheists.

      But you, not so much. You are kind of dumb and hateful. I'm just going to skip over "AnViL" posts now on, and my life will be much better.

      Have a good one.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • VCTV

      @mei

      It is not wishful thinking.

      There is a thing called "the peace of God that will surpsass all understanding". I've experienced this. Although briefly, it was beautiful.

      Prayer helps me.

      Here is a Native American prayer I find helpful (I know, delusional Native Americans, eh?)

      "O' GREAT SPIRIT

      O' GREAT SPIRIT, Whose voice I hear in the winds, and whose breath gives life to all the world, hear me!

      I am small and weak, I need your strength and wisdom.

      Let Me Walk In Beauty, and make my eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset.

      Make My Hands respect the things you have made and my ears sharp to hear your voice.

      Make Me Wise so that I may understand the things you have taught my people.

      Let Me Learn the lessons you have hidden in every leaf and rock.

      I Seek Strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy-myself.

      Make Me Always Ready to come to you with clean hands and straight eyes.

      So When Life Fades, as the fading sunset, my spirit may come to you without shame."

      January 24, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      VCTV

      Explaining what your "beyond understanding" deity intended and did is logically incoherent. You don't see the problem here?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • VCTV

      Logic is great stuff. But it is not the most important thing.

      Music and art are not really logical. A funny joke is not really logical. Love sometimes is not logical.

      Human beings are not logical beings. We can use logic. But we are much more beautiful when we embrace our imagination and creativity.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • fred

      Akira
      After my conversion I wanted desperately for my friends to understand there was more to life than what we all previously thought. Their reaction was much the same as when thumpers came to Atheist Steve’s door.
      Yes, I can see where believers discriminate and I am very aware of it. I do not call atheists godless to be condescending but that word better describes a person that does not see the world and react to the world from Gods perspective (i.e. eternal). A godless person can be every bit as good or evil as a believer so perspective is not a determining factor of external behavior. It is difficult if not impossible to know the internal or heart of the godless verses the believer and we can only guess based on external.

      Atheists only accept the external verifiable and this is what I cannot understand. Is it not self evident that there is something other than external verifiable and falsifiable substance? That is the point where I discriminate. How is it possible that something more is not self evident.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • the AnViL

      VCTV

      maybe you should turn your cheek... so i may smite the other.

      you've no substance, son.

      none.

      just delusional false beliefs... nothing substantial.

      you and those like you (the enemies of reason) should be prohibited from effecting legislation in any way. you should be prohibited from purchasing or owning firearms... because who knows when you'll have your psychotic break and murder a hundred people because your imaginary man in the sky told you to. we can't predict it!!!

      you should be prohibited from teaching public schools (not that you're qualified) – so as to prohibit you from in any way infecting young minds with the 2000 years of division, bigotry, and ignorance, inherent in all monotheistic religions.

      also... you wanted the attention... so don't cry about it now that you've got it.
      .

      .
      .
      ..
      .
      .
      zoop!

      January 24, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      I've yet to get even a cursory description from a Christian about the true nature of their god. At best you end up with a non-corporeal, non-temporal un-thing. What the heck is that supposed to be? But still the very same people are absolutely certain what this ambiguous entity wants, needs, loves, hates and offers. Convenient eh?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      AtheistSteve, I did learn from one of them (Chad?) that Jesus is eternally incarnate. Tangible existence implies a location. Where do you suppose he is?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of SEVERE mental illness

      Jesus is surfing in space

      January 24, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • fred

      Atheist Steve
      Is there only beginning and end in our world (everything inside and outside of our known universe inclusive of causation) or is the eternal self evident to you?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • the AnViL

      oh tomtom – that one's EASY..

      he's in HEAVEN, of course.

      duh!

      January 24, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • niknak

      Sorry to break the bad news to you ReadyFreddie, but time goes only in one direction.
      When your father's spe+rm met your mother's egg, your time started.
      And your timeline will end when your die, and all those rented atoms go somewhere else.
      You will be forgotten, just like the countless billions of lifeforms that have existed before you.

      Believing in a fairy tale will not change this.
      So try to make the most out of the time you have remaining on your ride.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • fred

      niknak
      My personal time line, assuming only organic and chemical reactions are relative, would be finite. I specified causation as inclusive in order to incorporate dimensions prior to our space and time constraints.
      That said I assume eternity is not self evident to you?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • niknak

      No Fred, eternity is pretty much meaningless to beings that are finite, like us.
      We may never know what the big bang started from. We know it occured about 13.75 trillion years ago.
      And the universe will either keep expanding unitl all the suns die out and it will go dark and be lifeless.
      Or it may contract back to a single point and the big bang will happen again.
      Or we may never figure it out for sure.

      But that does not mean a god did it.
      You have zero evidence for a god in anything that we have. You may choose the believe that there is one, but that is all you have Freddy, is believe. NOT fact.

      My question for you is this;
      Why does not knowing bother you so much?
      Why do you have to have some supreme being in your life to make it worthwhile to live?

      It does not bother me one second if I never find out how the big bang started or what was there before.
      I will go about my life and try to make the most out of the limited time I have and to live it to the fullest.
      And I won't waste one second going to some church to hear someone tell me stories that have no factual basis.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • fred

      niknak
      "No Fred, eternity is pretty much meaningless to beings that are finite, like us."
      =>regardless of meaning to us the question was: Is eternity self evident to you?
      Yes it is self evident or no it is not self evident are the two possible answers.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      AnViL, Jesus is in heaven? You mean where my socks end up? Someone (truth be told?) told me that there's not a lot in heaven besides used condoms, broken beer bottles and empty nitrous oxide tanks. Sounds like a place for rednecks.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Looks like freds new favorite term is "self-evident", and claiming all kinds of things are "self-evident" with absolutely no justification.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • the AnViL

      tomtom i wasn't really even aware that you wore socks!

      they may be with jebus.

      you should wash them if you ever get'em back.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • fred

      I make no claims, only asking if eternity is self evident to atheists.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      "How is it possible that something more is not self evident."
      This is an implicit admission that you think something is self-evident, yet you give absolutely no justification other than "I believe it, therefore it is". The same as what you were posting on
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/18/godless-mom-strikes-a-chord-with-parents/comment-page-123/#comment-2128132
      Not to mention that you disappeared after I called you on blatant dishonesty. Looks like you still believe in "Lyin' for Jeebus".

      January 24, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      No fred – eternity is a false concept. It assumes that time is infinite – which it is not. Infinity only exists in mathematics.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • VCTV

      Hard to explain spiritual matters to material girls...

      ...a material, a material, a material, a material world

      January 24, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • VCTV

      God created this material world for human beings.

      That includes time, science, mathematics, laws.... the whole universe.

      God dwells in another dimension. Outside our understanding of time, science, mathematics, laws. Beyond our limited understanding.

      And this is actually a good thing.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • ME II

      @Fred,
      "How is it possible that something more is not self evident."
      "Is there only beginning and end in our world (everything inside and outside of our known universe inclusive of causation) or is the eternal self evident to you?"

      Interesting. Can you elaborate on why you think "eternal", or "something more", is self-evident?
      To me self-evident pertains almost exclusively to deductive logic and mathematics, i.e. conceptual truths that are inherently true by their nature, such as the law of identi.ty.
      Although that doesn't really fit with the definition "Definition of SELF-EVIDENT : evident without proof or reasoning"

      What does self-evident mean to you?

      January 24, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • the AnViL

      VCTV "Hard to explain spiritual matters to material girls..."

      translation: VCTV has a difficult time explaining the imaginary things delusional people such as himself believe, for which there is no substantiated evidence. and VCTV loves madonna.

      zing!

      January 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • fred

      My Dog is a jealous Dog
      If Infinity only exists in mathematics then quantum mechanics which is dependent on tensor calculus cannot present validation for multiverse theory. Thus our existence is limited to a 14 billion year finite time span. 14 billion years is an insufficient period of time to allow for the probability of life given known fine tuning requirements.
      In short if you are right we do not exist. But, we do which means something greater than our finite existence is reality. This is why a greater percentage of mathematicians than biologists are believers

      January 24, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred, What known fine-tuning requirement would that be? Evolution accounts for what we see on earth and it didn't take as long as you're saying let alone would have needed longer.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "14 billion years is an insufficient period of time to allow for the probability of life given known fine tuning requirements."

      13+ billion years is not insufficient. Where did you get that idea?

      January 24, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • the AnViL

      fine tuning lolz

      "yeah – "the intelligent designer gave us 10 fingers so we could more easily use the decimal system!"

      zing!

      January 24, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      How cute. I call fred on something again and all of a sudden my post is invisible to him.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      The best explanation of eternal for me is based on C.S. Lewis description of eternity. Eternity is a sheet of paper infinitely extended. Time is a pencil line drawn on that eternal which begins and ends in that infinite expanse.

      This concept of our existence is self evident (without apparent proof or reasoning).

      January 24, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "This concept of our existence is self evident (without apparent proof or reasoning)."
      Good example. Similiar to Descartes' I think therefore I am.

      How is "eternal" similarly self-evident.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      You were right, I agreed with Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III on that thread.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      You merely said "Thanks!". Highly non-descript, and doesn't actually address any of the points or your dishonesty.

      January 24, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      Eternal is self evident from the Hebrew perspective of God. In the beginning God, the first words of Genesis sets the eternal as not preexisting but always in the state of being. The name God calls himself is “I AM” and Jesus said “I AM” the way the truth. There is no beginning or end reference to God and many references to God outside of our time.

      Eternal is self evident by reference from the unanimous 56 signers of the declaration of independence that claimed “these truths self evident,… that all man are endowed by their creator”. The implicate assumption is that certain truths and the Creator are eternal.

      Eternal is self evident to Hawking and all who cannot stop with causation but look beyond and or before First Cause and continue to infinite regress.

      Eternal is self evident in the known history of mankind with Neanderthal making provision for the departed. Although speculation as to why they buried artifacts with the dead it is self evident to me anyway that they were looking somewhere outside of their finite existence towards something known to them. It certainly was not unknown otherwise they would not know where to look.

      Eternal is self evident in mans longing for immortality. Certainly no one wants to die but that is different than life eternal.

      Eternal is self evident in mans making up religions and belief systems to account for a basic instinct that says there is an eternal and we can observe by our mortality that both known’s must be reconciled.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Same useless arguments that show absolutely nothing.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Billy

      The truth of loonytoonism is self-evident from all of fred's posts to date.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      fred, I know your Founding Fathers regarded some truths as being self-evident, but that was just a way of saying "we believe it because we believe it and we won't budge". Better to admit that your self-evident claims are the grounds, justified if you can manage it (can you?), for the rest of what you believe.

      January 24, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • fred

      Tom, Tom, the Other One
      Billy
      Do you think the concept of eternity is self evident? Were any of my positions on the eternal self evident to you?

      January 24, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      Perhaps I'm being too picky, but while some of those may be good reasons to think there is something eternal, they don't seem self-evident to me, as they reference other people's actions, thoughts, and reasons.

      While I can say "I think therefore I am", the same does not apply to you, or to god, from my perspective. "I AM" only works for the person saying "I AM".

      January 24, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      Moses asked God whom shall I tell them sent me and God said tell them “I AM” sent you. God has made clear his eternal nature to the Hebrew and is one of the attributes revealed to man.

      The existence of the concept of eternity is self evident to me which makes this eternal attribute understandable. I agree this would be difficult to prove to another as even mathematical representations would at best present and abstract of eternity. What should be self evident is that the nature of the eternal itself is not measurable or definable because that would place limits or boundaries upon that which has no limits or bounds.
      Philosophical naturalism which is the cornerstone of the atheist must reject that which is self evident. Which is why I ask is the concept of eternity not self evident

      January 25, 2013 at 2:19 am |
  9. the AnViL

    those of you who believe in an imaginary sky are delusional and should never be allowed to vote, serve on a jury, hold public office, purchase/own firearms or teach public school.

    January 24, 2013 at 11:12 am |
    • the AnViL

      .
      .
      *edit

      those of you who believe in an imaginary man in the sky are delusional, and should never be allowed to vote, serve on a jury, hold public office, purchase/own firearms, or teach public school.

      delusional thinking = mental illness.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • VCTV

      That is not a very sound argument.

      Strong in feeling and bias.

      Weak in substance.

      I'm just going to assume you have no power or influence over such things and not worry about your trolling.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:38 am |
    • the AnViL

      VCTV – it's my opinion that delusional people should not be allowed to serve on juries, hold public office, vote, purchase/own firearms, or teach public school.

      my statement wasn't an argument, you retarded idiot.

      is my statement biased? unashamedly so.

      does it have substance? yup.

      does your summation of my opinion have any substance? nope.

      i'm just going to assert that you're an asshat and that you've no power to influence my opinion... and chortle over how easily trolled you are.

      .
      .
      .
      cha cha cha

      January 24, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • niknak

      Hey Advil,
      I agree with you on most of your points, but you don't have to call VC a name to get your point across to him.
      In fact, there really isn't anytime we should be calling each other names like the one you used.

      Civility, pass it along bro :)

      January 24, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • the AnViL

      niknak – go phuque yourself, bro
      :)

      January 24, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • VCTV

      Some religious people, like Martin Luther King, JR (see the article above) probably were not delusional.

      Being delusional often indicates a mental illness.

      Most mental health experts know the difference between being mentally ill and having strong religious convictions.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • niknak

      How nice Advil, I see you are still drinking that regular coffee.
      Must suck to be so angry all the time.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • VCTV

      I hope it is just a troll being a troll and not a future shoot-em up psychopath. His posts are a cry for help. Poor guy.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • the AnViL

      VCTV – if a person holds false beliefs in an imaginary man in the sky – yes... that is a delusion.

      is it a mental illness? according to DSM – no, it isn't. why? because of "cultural" reasons... which begs the question... just because everyone believes in the same or similar delusional concepts, does that make them true?

      and niknak... srsly bro – i dole out civility where and when it's due. i'm not angry, i don't drink coffee, and i don't suffer ignorance or idiocy. if that's a problem for you – then that's a problem for you.

      deal with it.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • VCTV

      The great thing, The Anvil, is that I'm not too worried about your warped thinking.

      You don't have much influence in my life. And I'm just going to assume you aren't a very influential person. So – no worries.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • the AnViL

      VNVC – so you've no substance?? just ad hominem???

      good work, sport.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • niknak

      Advil, you say you are not angry, but you might want to re-read some of your posts, as they sound pretty angry to me.
      You even use bold print from time to time.
      VC was very civil to you, and you jumped on him with foul language.
      Was that civil on your part?

      And then you jumped on me with foul language.
      Showing more of your civility?

      Maybe you need to start drinking some coffe......

      January 24, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • the AnViL

      niknaktard – you may be suffering from synesthesia if my posts "sound" angry.. maybe some odd birth defect.. or maybe you chewed lead paint chips as a child.. i dunno.. if not – then it's your bias only. maybe go back and re-read my posts without projecting your ignorance and maybe things will seem more clear to you. bold letters are just that, bold. they're for emphasis, like italics.

      IF I TYPE THIS SENTENCE IN CAPITAL LETTERS DO YOU HEAR ME YELLING?

      i assure you – i never uttered a sound. it's words on a screen.

      and if my invective, which i am convinced is well deserved when issued.... offends you... or if my foul language upsets you... too phuquing baaaaaad.

      maybe you should toughen up, princess?

      January 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • niknak

      See, look at your angry response.
      And yes, it is considered "shouting" to use bold or caps for an entire sentence.
      It is not just my princess sensiblities, ask around to find out.

      And no, my issues with civility have nothing to do with birth defects or lead paint.
      I guess I was raised to try to be respectful of others. Too bad that was not in the program for your upbringing.

      If you have to resort to name calling to try to get your point across, then it means that what you have to say is drivel.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • the AnViL

      niknaktard, you ignorant clod. i am not angry. i assure you i am amused at your emotional outpouring. perhaps you are the one who should lay off the strong coffee there, kitten. :)

      January 24, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • the AnViL

      da da da da da de de te te tee teepee for my bunghole

      January 24, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • the AnViL

      i am the GREAT CORNHOLIO!

      January 24, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • the AnViL

      vae victis!

      January 24, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • niknak

      I thought my last response was rather profound.
      And yes, another cup of joe is exactly what ol' NikNak needs.
      Then plug in the bass and chill out.

      If you take anything from our little tryst it is this;

      NEVER underestimate the power of a good bassline!

      January 24, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • the AnViL

      do you have T.P. for my bunghole? I would hate for my holio to get polio.

      January 24, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • the AnViL

      niknak, is it normal for the inside of your bunghole to itch?

      January 24, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • niknak

      Advil, don't start getting creepy on us.
      We already have to deal with the fundies and their creepiness, we can't handle anymore.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
  10. an atheist

    truth be told would NEVER molest little boys.

    January 24, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • Akira

      Lol.
      I see what you did there...

      January 24, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Another Atheist

      Truth Be Told HAS NOT Molested 1,000 children in the past 3 years.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • meifumado

      Haha nice!

      January 24, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • truth be told

      To an atheist liar all life is a lie, atheists are a small vicious hate filled group with no concept of Truth. There supposed wit is less than the combined intelligence of a maggot or a slug. The lies this gang have spewed they invented to be lies, they cannot hide from real Truth and will not be spared Gods judgement.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but "God" is an element of mythology, therefore your repeated assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 24, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
  11. myweightinwords

    Good morning all! It's a wet one here.

    In a discussion on yesterday's "speed read" the word "promiscuous" came up and I noted a disconnect between what it meant to Christians and what it meant to me.

    So, a couple questions.

    1) How do you define the word? What does it imply?
    2) Does it apply equally to men and women?
    3) Does your definition depend on your belief system?
    4) Is promiscuity inherently bad?

    January 24, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      I like how you began a conversation about promiscuity with the descriptive term "wet" ;)

      January 24, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • BRC

      1) How do you define the word? What does it imply?
      Promiscuity-characteristic of indiscriminate mingling or involvment, especially involving s3xual relations on a casual basis. Implies that a person will exert extra effort or readily accept advances in an attempt to achieve s3xual gratification (possibly as a substtute for emotional closeness, but that doesn't really matter).
      2) Does it apply equally to men and women?
      Should, but in our culture is generally doesn't
      3) Does your definition depend on your belief system?
      No
      4) Is promiscuity inherently bad?
      No, but there is an unfortunate correlation between people who exhibit promiscuous behavior and those who fail make good safe decisions about s3xual relations.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:28 am |
      • myweightinwords

        I seem to have left a question out.

        How many partners does it take to be considered promiscuous? Or can it be quantified?

        In my mind it implies sex with a fair number of people, as well as sex with people you don't necessarily know and other qualifiers.

        January 24, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • BRC

      myweightinwords,
      I don't think it's a number, I think it's more of a concept. Sleep with more then two people who didn't know about each other in the same day, probably promiscuous. Have you slept with enought people in the last few days/weeks that you can't remember or name all of them, probably promicuous. Has your increased amount of time spent seeking/achieving physical relationships negatively affected other aspects of your life? Then your probably a s3x addict, and promiscuous.

      Which brings about another question. Can you be promiscuous at a time, and then never promiscuous again? Or, if you've been promiscuous before, are you always considered promiscuous? Is binge promiscuity a thing?

      January 24, 2013 at 11:55 am |
      • myweightinwords

        Good questions.

        I suppose if you go through a bad break up and use sex as a bandaid, or as revenge? I guess that could be a binge.

        Then again, say a woman has no desire to marry and doesn't consider monogamy relevant to her life. She dates, and has sex with various partners over the course of ten years.

        Is that promiscuous? Five partners in ten years? Ten partners in ten years? Twenty? Fifty?

        Also to consider, does the gender of her partners matter? If she is a lesbian, do you see it the same as if she were straight? How about if she is bi?

        And then also, does it change if she is with multiple partners at one time (whether dating two different partners separately or engaging in group sex)?

        January 24, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III

      oooh, I'll check back to see what lionly, Douglas or Bob have to say to this. :)

      January 24, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      mww, I'm glad you got a laugh, I was a little worried I would offend you. Now I don't have a lot of experience in this category, I've actually only been with the woman I ended up marrying. But I would think volume plus guilt would be a good indicator. The number of people is hard to pin down, but I would imagine a person knows really quick if they feel guilty or possibly disgusted with sleeping with a particular person. If you constantly regret your exploits, you might be promiscuous.

      January 24, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
  12. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Yep, tbt is none other than captain america. The style is unmistakeable.

    January 24, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • truth be told

      Thanks for adding additional proof to my statements.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Morning, cap'n !

      January 24, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • truth be told

      And a mimic provides even more proof. what one atheist lies to others swear to. Thanks !

      January 24, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • == o ==

      truth be told – "And a mimic provides even more proof. what one atheist lies to others swear to."

      Ever since TBT was let go at the Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co, he has been a bitter pill. I think one of his current coworkers must have stolen his scented tissue today.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
  13. Science

    To Robert Brown here's to you

    Evolution at its best

    Apes Get iPads at National Zoo

    by LiveScience Staff
    Date: 22 January 2013 Time: 04:07 PM ET
    http://www.livescience.com/26490-orangutans-ipads-national-zoo.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Livesciencecom+%28LiveScience.com+Science+Headline+Feed%29
    They think Robert who is there god(S) ???

    January 24, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Science,
      Orangutans are cool. I liked that one in the Clint Eastwood movies, Every which way but loose, any which way you can, you know, right turn Clyde.

      There are lots of smart animals. They are missing one ingredient to need God. Do you think humans are just extremely intelligent animals?

      January 24, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Science

      @RB
      What digit do you use to operate the remote control for the TV ?

      January 24, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • midwest rail

      If he has similar cable service to mine, then R.B. uses the digit "3".

      January 24, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Science

      @RB According to DNA it answers your question !!! SEE DATE !!!

      Ancient DNA reveals humans living 40,000 years ago in Beijing area related to present-day Asians, Native Americans

      Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-ancient-dna-reveals-humans-years.html#jCp
      Robert way to many Adams and Eves in the gene pool for the CREATION story in the bible to work !!!

      January 24, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • Science

      Hey Robert Brown I answered your question the best I could , what digit do you use ?
      Peace

      Date article pub. above is Jan 21 2013

      January 24, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Science,

      Thumb

      January 24, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
  14. Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III

    It's cold! Time for "Winter Daydreams" courtesy of Tchaikovsky.
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrSWgNC2gws&w=640&h=390]

    January 24, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • meifumado

      Thanks for the music, It's really cold in NYC today.

      January 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      meifumado: -22 in beautiful NB, Canada :-)

      January 24, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
  15. Doc Vestibule

    @Cap'n Troll of Many Names
    Since you're so concerned with foreigners minding their own business, do you support the ways in which the American Empire extends its influnce?
    Starting with the 400,000 or so killed in Ja.pan with atomic bombs, America has flexed its might in Greece, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Korea, Iran, Guatemala, Lebanon, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Cuba, Iraq (in 63, 87, 81, 03), Panama, Indonesia, Dominican Republic, Oman, Chile, Angola, Nicuragua, Somalia and Afghanistan.
    Add up the official death tolls, and America is responsible for nearly 10,500,000 deaths.

    Does that sound like minding your own business and keeping out of foreign affairs?

    January 24, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • captain america

      We who rule the world need no advice from a sc.um sucking maggot in a third world flophouse. An American dog crapping on our sidewalks has more relevance to US than you do. Take a hike loser. There's your sign

      January 24, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • == o ==

      Aww, see, you shouldn't get you skirt so much up in a pinch, captain.

      That's why they let you go from the Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co..

      January 24, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • just wondering

      so what country do you come from ==o== ?

      January 24, 2013 at 10:32 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Are you saying that the 10.5 million people killed by the US were sc.um sucking maggots in 3rd world flophouses?
      Or are you trying to say that Canada is a 3rd world nation full of sc.um sucking maggots?
      If the former, your lack of respect for human life is astonishing.
      If the latter, that would be ironic given that 3 of the top 5 most liveable cities in the world are in Canada, according to The Economist Intelligence Unit – and not a single US city is in the top 10.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • William Demuth

      Doc

      And Cap wonders why America is now hated?

      I often wonder why you Canadians haven’t snipped the NORAD wires long ago.

      Our right wing Christian nut cases are our national shame. Like some last vestige of Neanderthals hiding under the umbrella of the northern states they rail against reality like two bit criminals raging on their trip to the gas chamber

      Luckily for both the US and the world, the NEOCONS and related lunatics are falling from power at an amazing rate.

      Our troops are coming home, and we intend to fix our own country.

      I would hope you and yours might join us in bettering this world, and together we can enjoy watching the extinction of the Christian right!

      January 24, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • == o ==

      I am from the U.S. But I, unlike the Christard troll, do not have a fear of Canadians.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Akira

      ==o== answered that below, just wondering.
      And yes, International Falls, MINUTE is part of the US.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:36 am |
    • Akira

      That should be MN.
      DYAC!

      January 24, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • Which God?

      yeah, capitan america. You are the dog crapping on the sidewalk. You crap everywhere you go, leaving your biases and other filth you espouse. Dirty mangy dog you are. There's your sign. You can stick said sign up your azz as well, you coward and fake patriot. Your hate will serve to put you out of your misery.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @William
      During the 1st Gulf War, I lived at the Headquarters For the United States European Command and got to meet Americans from all across your country. I'd never encountered an evangelical right winger before that, but I learned quickly to censor myself when dealing with anyone that had a southern accent and cross necklace.
      I think that while most Canadians are at least peripherally aware of the puritan ethic that runs deep in the American mentality, we try to ignore it – just as I think most Americans try to ignore my country's socialist policies.
      Due to the close nature of our relationship, we refrain from calling you nutters and you don't call us commies.

      Personally, I find it immensely relieving to see that the irreligious in America have finally found their voice.
      Last year's Reason Rally put a giant smile on my face. It signalled that the Reagan era "Moral Majority" are quickly losing their position as the voice of the American people and a more balanced, rational discourse can finally take place.
      The zeitgeist is shifting and it can't be stopped.
      In another decade or two, a lot of the hateful BS espoused by those folk will be viewed with the same sense of disgust that segregation now elicits. That doesn't mean that there aren't still raging racists in your country, or that the Christian Right's agenda will change very much, but they'll be shamed into keeping it more quiet and clandestine.

      The battle of the rationalists against the religionists is winding down and the irreligious are coming out on top.
      The next long fight will have to be against runaway Corporatism and it's undue influence and power. Most of the fighting will take place in the US, but it'll take international cooperation to really win that one...

      January 24, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • just wondering

      Well I, not wondering anymore, ==o== has no fear, no truth and no commonsense. I've got it !

      January 24, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
  16. niknak

    Jeebus christ it's cold here!!
    But sunny, and of course it will be another beautiful day without god(s).
    Stay warm everyone.

    January 24, 2013 at 10:07 am |
    • == o ==

      -20 degrees presently in International Falls, Minnesota. Hope you're not there.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:29 am |
  17. AtheistSteve

    Oh looky...it's truth be told's alter ego captain america the xenophobic moron. Well anything I can do to twist your panties into knots will only improve my day. Too bad you haven't figured out how to block non-americans from posting on this international website. Sucks to be you...loser.

    January 24, 2013 at 9:32 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      I think CA is on a day pass from the asylum for the mentally insane.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • captain america

      All morally decent Americans know you for the losers you are. Poor little pretend american twits, useless in canada unwanted everywhere. There's your sign

      January 24, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • Which God?

      capitan america is a shill for stupidity and 'Shills R Us.' Useless here, and Uganda doesn't want him/them either. There's talk the Iranians would like to have him shill for them.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:43 am |
  18. captain america

    What one lying pos canadian lies to another will swear to, why does this seem so familiar liar prefails? Our country is none of your business. There's your sign

    January 24, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • midwest rail

      Always a good day when we get to be entertained by the inane and delusional ramblings of t.b.t./c.a.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:22 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Suppose an illegal immigrant is a Christian. Is said immigrant going to hurt your Christian nation?

      January 24, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • Bill Engvall

      Stop using my catchphrase, captain america...you're about to get a gigantic bill sent to you for past due royalties!

      January 24, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • captain america

      That's not your catchphrase Bill. We would have thought YOU knew that. ("here's" your sign) There's your sign

      January 24, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • == o ==

      Aww, now see that's why they let you go from the Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co..

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      and many other names . . .

      January 24, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Bill Engvall

      Yoea, you're right...and both catchphrases suck as much as you do. Here's your sign.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • Akira

      @==o==:
      I can tell you that "Douglas" of the 'gay coitus' fame is not the same person as ca or tbt, but you are correct in that they're both trolls.
      Degenerate is an apt description.

      January 24, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • Aesop

      captain america, etc.:

      “An Ass put on a Lion's skin and went
      About the forest with much merriment,
      Scaring the foolish beasts by brooks and rocks,
      Till at last he tried to scare the Fox.
      But Reynard, hearing from beneath the mane
      That Raucous voice so petulant and vain,
      Remarked. O' Ass, I too would run away,
      But that I know your old familiar bray'.
      That's just the way with asses, just the way.”

      ― Aesop(620-560 BC)

      January 24, 2013 at 11:46 am |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Pray without ceasing in 2013
    Prayer changes things

    January 24, 2013 at 8:48 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Please keep praying non-stop. That way you will die of thirst in about a week, and then we could be rid of your lies.

      January 24, 2013 at 8:50 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      January 24, 2013 at 8:53 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 24, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • just wondering

      Isn't grace a prayer? Hard to starve or die of thirst when fed by God.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:26 am |
    • Pete

      Then just sit there and see if god feeds you, my guess is that unless you feed yourself you will die.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:33 am |
  20. Robert Brown

    God treats everyone alike. He accepts people only because they have faith in Jesus Christ. All of us have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory. But God treats us much better than we deserve, and because of Christ Jesus, he freely accepts us and sets us free from our sins.

    January 24, 2013 at 8:19 am |
    • William Demuth

      Yadda Yadda Yadda!

      So Jews, Muslims, Buddists, Wiccans, Zoroastrians, Shintoists, Athiests, Agnostics, Shammans, Bahists Sikhs and all the other groups must burn in hell?

      Fu@k your God! Juat another fabrication of power hungry parasites.

      January 24, 2013 at 8:43 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Excerpts from a fairy tale Robert, nothing more.

      January 24, 2013 at 8:48 am |
    • Science

      @RB
      Say you mentioned watching TV, what digit do you use on your remote control ?

      Maybe for a little humor use your remote and watch The Big Bang Theory on CBS or reruns on TBS .
      Pig valves are the base plus STEM cells to manufacture heart valves for transplant..
      Peace
      By the way RB when your flesh melts off you have just deplited your carbon the end

      January 24, 2013 at 8:48 am |
    • truth be told

      When on these blogs keep this simple Truth in mind ... all atheists are liars. The qualities and values that atheism has brought to mankind include lies, theft and mass murder. There is no use for an atheist in this world or the next.

      January 24, 2013 at 8:51 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Hey everyone, it's tuth be trolled, here to....um...well.....well no one knows why this troll posts ridiculous statements all day under several aliases.
      DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

      January 24, 2013 at 8:53 am |
    • Pete

      "all atheists are liars"

      more lies from the xtians – 134!

      January 24, 2013 at 8:54 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      @ Richard, but he is soooooooo cute. Can't I give the little critter a tiny snack?

      January 24, 2013 at 8:58 am |
    • Which God?

      RB, that has to ber the biggest piece of bullschitt out of your mouth yet. In two sentences you say God treats everyone equally. In the next it has to be mandatory to have faith in jeebus in order for your god to accept them. Your god is a hypocritical azzhole. What a crock of schitt. You are just koo-koo. Religion has you jumping through hoops to explain it's fallacies. So sad. So pathetic.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:00 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Every time truth be told posts I'm reminded of those 3 monkeys with their hands covering their ears, eyes and mouth all rolled into one unbelievably stupid person. Deaf, dumb and blind to anything resembling reality. It's a wonder tbt remembers how to breathe let alone eat to survive.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:03 am |
    • Saraswati

      An infant with cancer is getting better than he deserves...nice.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:04 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      tbt: You're right that there is no use for Atheists in the next world...it doesn't exist. However, given that your believe it does, there are numerous bridges for you to seek out that will get you to the next world, so we the rational ones can finally live in a sane world devoid of delusional people like you.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:15 am |
    • captain america

      Every time assthiest stevie posts i'm reminded of those low end slugs that infest a nation from a foreign country, it is nothing more than a spiritual terrorist of a third world nation trying to undermine our one nation under God. We got your number stevie. There's your sign

      January 24, 2013 at 9:17 am |
    • captain america

      liar prefails is as useless to canada as its pos alter ego asstheist stevie. There's your sign.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:22 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Hey belief bloggers, good morning to you all!

      That was the Apostle Paul as inspired by the Holy Spirit of God from the third chapter of Romans. If any of you are interested in Christianity Romans is a really good book to start with and if you have trouble with the old English try the Contemporary English Version. I prefer the King James Version but the Contemporary English is much easier reading for folks who aren’t use to it.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:24 am |
    • Which God?

      capitan america is a teapot with a hole in it. Thjis 'hole' spouts schitt, of which ca is very proud to do. He has no logical argument, but for his percieved patriotism. The aazzhole probably never wore the uniform of our armed services, like some of us here. He's a coward behind a keyboard, and a blowhard.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:25 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      CA: Bought the rights to CNN finally? Didn't think so!! So do the world a favor and join TBT in finding the nearest bridge....you do not represent America but more the taliban and the taliban are useless in both countries!
      AtheistSteve is not my alter-ego but my husband.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • Delaware

      RB that was a perfect message!

      January 24, 2013 at 9:37 am |
    • why are atheists mad at truth being told
      January 24, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      We're not mad...just pointing out the obvious.
      If truth be told was truly speaking the truth it would be a first.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      TBT is just another one of captain azzhole's sock puppets.

      January 24, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • Akira

      Lunchbreaker:
      "@ Richard, but he is soooooooo cute. Can’t I give the little critter a tiny snack?"
      No! And do NOT get it wet!! Lol

      January 24, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but all of your repeated assertions regarding atheism are unfounded. For instance, there is no data indicating that populations under ruthless dictators of past regimes have committed atrocities in the name of atheism. There is data indicating that segments of populations under different religions have committed atrocities in the name of their respective religions. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 24, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Robert Brown", but "He", "God", and "Christ" are all elements of mythology, therefore your repeated assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 24, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • truth be told

      As soon as I point out what liars atheists are many of them come on and offer proof. Thanks.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • truth be told

      Special thanks to poor paranoid tom tom who is useless everywhere it goes.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • == o ==

      My goodness, truth/ca, did someone in another cubicle steal truths scented tissue today?? Hmm???? Poor baby.

      January 24, 2013 at 10:32 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.