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'None' leaders to chart path for more political, cultural power for religiously unaffiliated
The Reason Rally -- sponsored by secular organizations -- draws a crowd to Washington in June.
January 25th, 2013
08:51 AM ET

'None' leaders to chart path for more political, cultural power for religiously unaffiliated

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – The religiously unaffiliated the "nones"  have noticed their ranks are growing. And at a meeting Saturday, a group of leaders will look to turn those swelling numbers into workable political and cultural power.

It's one of the top priorities of the eighth annual Heads Meeting, which will be held in Atlanta. Some of the nation’s most influential leaders, representing various organizations, will convene to chart a path forward and discuss the most important issues facing "nones" today.

“It is not enough that we are growing in numbers,” said Roy Speckhardt, executive director of the American Humanist Association. “We have got to find a way to bring those numbers to bear in an organized fashion so that people will take us seriously.”

A number of studies have found that religious “nones” people who either don’t believe in God or do not affiliate with a religion are increasing rapidly in the United States. A 2012 Pew study, for example, found this faction to be the fastest-growing "religious" group in America and determined that one in five Americans now identify with no religion.

These numbers have emboldened atheists, humanists, agnostics and other secular Americans, many of whom have long expressed a desire for more political power.

In particular, they point to the fact that they are widely underrepresented in the halls of the highest U.S. legislative body. Though 20% of the population classifies themselves as “none,” according to Pew, only one member of Congress, Democratic Rep. Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona, identifies as such.

Speckhardt said it’ll take presenting “viewpoints in an organized way” to see change.

Dale McGowan, executive director of Foundation Beyond Belief and one of the Atlanta meeting's hosts, said building awareness through community engagement will be a key topic of discussion.

“Part of it is trying to consolidate that cultural presence,” McGowan said. “That has something to do with politics, but it is also more generally cultural.”

Much as churches and synagogues foster and nurture communities, McGowan said he thinks atheists can do the same to gain clout and broader acceptance.

But the meeting is more than just a forum for "none" leaders to outline their plans going forward. It is also a way for these leaders to meet face to face and discuss differences that they may have with one another.

According to McGowan, finding ways to work together was the original goal when the meeting was first held in 2005.

For years, McGowan said, “These groups operated separately from each other and sometimes at odds with each other. There was a realization that we should meet once a year and come together on the goals that we have in common.”

Other leaders echoed this viewpoint.

“One of the biggest benefits of these meetings is that it is human interaction,” Speckhardt said. “You get people face to face, and you dispel these negative ideas. You realize that we are all endeavoring toward very similar goals and that we can cooperate to make them happen.”

But while the leaders stress the need for cohesion, they also have long highlighted, even celebrated, diversity of opinion in their movement. This diversity has, at times, caused friction.

For example, the Christmas season revealed a growing rift among American atheists. Some activists want to seize the holidays to build bridges with faith groups, while other active unbelievers increasingly see Christmas as central to confronting religion.

“We certainly do disagree,” said David Silverman, president of American Atheists. “But we are on the same side. What we have to do is sit down at the table and say, ‘You are going to do your thing, and I am going to do my thing.’ ”

McGowan called cohesiveness “really the central challenge” for people who thrive on independence. “This is a group of people accustomed to taking a critical approach to things, and that means not just letting differences slide and saying, ‘Hey, these differences matter.’ ”

Other attendees in Atlanta will include Ron Lindsay, president of the Center for Inquiry, and Margaret Downey, founder and president of the Freethought Society, according to Silverman.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism • Politics

soundoff (1,751 Responses)
  1. Dawkins is an idiot

    I can't wait until these stupid, idiot atheists run this country into The ground. You think this country has problems now, wait until these immoral communist take over.

    January 25, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • sam

      I wish stupidity was painful, so that idiots like you would have some negative reinforcement to guide you at least partly away from it.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • Deb

      No sam, the only pain we get is from thorns such as yourself.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Jorge

      Someone doesn't know difference between atheist and communist. what a cagão.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      If you theocrats had your way the best parts of this country would already be dead and buried.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • sam

      Deb, do you agree with dawkins' comment, then, or do you just have a thorn up your ass in general?

      January 25, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
    • Don Piano

      I think maybe Deb and Dawkins are the same poster....?

      January 25, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • Deb

      Go figure, my post is being blocked by the sticks on this site.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • sam

      (There's an automatic word filter for certain letter combos. Are you sure they're sticks, and not thorns?)

      January 25, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • Deb

      sam, the only automatic filter on this site are when the atheists are watching the blog. My posts always make it through when a Christian is on duty.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Deb

      You're hilarious

      You should have you're own comedy show, "you might be a christian if....", it would be alittle more low brow than jeff foxworthy but we'd get comedic gold like, "when the christian word monitor on CNN is on duty, he lets my posts through". That's golden.

      I wonder how fast of a reader you have to be to be able to read close to at least 50 posts a minute of varying lengths, make a decision whats allowed and wasn't isn't and then approve or reject something.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Someone get a bottle to put that poe in.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • Deb

      Chuckles, the filter wouldn't allow all the names given for fool.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
  2. Stewie Griffith

    Approximately 95% of all Nobel Prizes in Physics, Chemistry and Medicine have been awrded to atheists. We are smarter than believers and we owe them a duty to educate them and help them rise above their silly, childish superst.itions.

    January 25, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      I love when people use their demographic to lay claim to stuff they weren't involved in.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • niknak

      Better to just let them have more guns, and then they can shoot each other and die off faster.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • Nclaw441

      What did you win the Nobel for?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • Deb

      Yes, I noticed that the big egos of this world always have to get prizes as they shove the real people that did the work to the side.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • Jorge

      blaaaa – deb is jealous of smart people.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Deb

      Jorge, it figures that you only think about cerebral attributes. In touch with your emotions, you are not.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • sam

      Deb is trying to get you to stop thinking about cerebral attributes, and look at her boobs.

      January 25, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • Deb

      sam, you couldn't be any more carnal if you tried.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Deb

      Jorge and sam, there is more to people than intelligence. Thanks for playing through because we know thorns are not in touch with their emotions.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Deb

      ....carnal?? WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT BEFORE!!!

      HEAVENSENT!! IS THAT YOU????!!!!!!

      January 25, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • sam

      CARNAL! Our favorite word...could it be you, HS??

      January 25, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • Deb

      You wished I were HS. Patience is not my forte.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • funny

      Deb:
      "You wished I were HS"

      When did he wished it? Funny, HS misuses that word in the same hickish way...

      Who cares what name you use, though? You can call yourself Albert Einstein or The Queen of England. It'll be the same addlepated blather from you again and again.

      January 25, 2013 at 11:28 pm |
  3. Noneya

    This is stupid. It's one thing to try and hold a group together because of a similar belief or background. But they are wanting to hold the "nones" by what...a negative?

    What do we want?!
    Nothing.
    Who do we want to hear?
    No one!

    Having no affiliation with a faith means just that and little else.

    January 25, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • New Athiest

      What do we want?
      Your mythical god out of our laws and lives!
      An end to religious bigotry and hate!

      This could be a really long list, but you get the idea.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Noneya

      "Your mythical god out of our laws and lives!"

      Whose mythical god?
      What laws are you talking about?
      Your life is your own.

      "An end to religious bigotry and hate!"

      I think everyone supports that one. Make sure to include non-religious bigotry and hate as well.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      Youre not a we. Nones is a catch all demographic that happens to contain Athiests.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Agreed, but try telling that to the christians! It's all, "Oh, no, you guys are too a religion!!"

      January 25, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      Well if Athiest keep collecting leaders, it's only a matter of time.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Noneya

      @Moby Schtick- couldn't see why anyone wouldn't be open to you with comments like that.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • Noneya

      Whether atheists like it or not, they do have an organization. A religion? No...but a shared creed of a sort.
      Atheists are united in a sense by a statement of non-belief. It's specific and identifiable.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • Deb

      New Athiest, if it weren't for God, you atheists wouldn't have anywhere to go to rip off his righteous teachings.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • New Alias

      @Deb
      Here is something to think about-
      Confuciuswas preaching the golden rule 1,000 years before Jesus was born. Confucianism is not a religion.

      January 25, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
  4. Action4America

    I will most definitely contact AHA to see if their plan already includes college campuses as target sites, as I have extensive experience with selection and organizational needs for that purpose. For something like this, one needs to be bold, and set up under a specific purpose or catch-phrase, and then let those that express an interest further define their common goals.

    January 25, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • New Athiest

      If you can get a meeting together at Notre Dame, BYU, TCU, or Oral Roberts U, I will try very hard to attend.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Hmmm

      "specific purpose or catch-phrase"

      Fact Based Reality Coalition – The FBRC...

      January 25, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • PhotoShop

      Photo shop did a great job inserting the banner into the photo. I wonder what this gathering was really about? Looks like disgruntle employees to me since there is not a smile on anyone's face. Must have cut their lunch time down to save the company money.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • amy

      We are the world, we are the children
      We are the nones who make a brighter day
      So lets start giving
      There's a choice we're making
      We're saving our own lives

      January 25, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • gary

      I can see it now – "I was beat up by a bunch of nones on the way home from church"

      January 25, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • Jorge

      This is great! We should use Mas Que Nada as theme for this great idea! No more lands of make-believe anywhere in Americas!

      January 25, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • Deb

      Jorge, let me take a wild guess. You have no friends that will hang out with you.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • Jorge

      plenty of friends deb. lots of atheist friends.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Deb

      Jorge, come clean now. Why would one narcissist want to be surrounded by other narcissists when it's all about them and they don't like to share their space? Again, you have ZERO friends.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
  5. Lenin

    Oh look a whole bunch of communist recruits all ready for service in their religion of Atheism!

    January 25, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      How many hammer blows to the head did you need to become as stupid as you are?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • Observer

      Lenin,

      So you don't know the difference between atheists and communists?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • niknak

      He heard those words mentioned on Rust and Fix news and has come to believe they are somehow bad.
      I bet he does not even know the defintion of either one of them.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • New Athiest

      Lenin,

      I'm starting to wonder if you are a 2nd rate troll, or if you are a worn out POS who still has a Cold War mentality.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • Lenin

      Hey, I know what i'm talking about since i'm wearing a tuxedo today for my vasectomy. If i'm gonna be impotent I better look impotent...

      January 25, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • niknak

      Well that clears it up, you are just a troll.
      And not a very good one at that.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Deb

      Observer, there is NO difference between atheists and communist. Just another word for the thorns of this world.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • sam stone

      there is a huge difference. the thorns in this world are the religious

      January 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • Deb

      sam stone, does sociopath that has no cure ring any bells with you?

      January 25, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • Don Piano

      Deb, does 'sanctimonious whore' ring any bells?

      January 25, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Deb

      Oooh, new handle "Don Piano" thorn to back up another thorn. Too funny how simple your egos are.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Don Piano

      Eh, my xtian buddies have the foulest mouths I've ever heard, and their wives are pretty much like you, except one. All that passive aggressive stuff you get up to has to get tiring after awhile.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      deb sounds like the Chard. the dead giveaway is the "let me guess" followed by lots of faulty assumptions.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • sam

      Chard's feminine side.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Deb

      Don Piano has Christian friends. Let's see, free dinner, free beer, free movies to watch off of them? Now, atheists friend are zero because they wouldn't spend the most wrinkled buck in their pocket on anyone else.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:42 pm |
    • Deb

      sam, stop assuming I'm someone else. I'm just me as I unwrap the baloney of this world.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • God's honest truth

      Now don't lie Deb, you know you have no friends.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      "sam stone, does sociopath that has no cure ring any bells with you?"

      yep, sounds like christians

      January 26, 2013 at 3:58 am |
  6. Che26m

    Some observations about the "Heads Meeting" that need to be put into proper context.
    (Personal Disclosure): I've been an activist in the secular movement for years, I also have been privileged to lead (and be servant to) several secular organizations over time. I've also been at several national, state and local conferences and am often in touch with some of the members of the "Heads" and am aware that the heads have been meeting for years.

    Challenges for the "Heads". 1. This article makes the "Heads" look they look like 1%ers of the secular movement. The rest of us who run the local and statewide orgs have been involved in humanistic, skeptical, secular, freethought issues without the need of help, support nor direction of the "Heads" for years. It is nice to be in alliance with any group no matter how small or large, and working with various members of the "Heads" has been usually a positive. The Heads usually understand they cannot dictate policy to the rest of the movement. The message presented with this story could lead us to believe, a few people, in an exclusionary meeting are directing or going to direct policy to the rest of secular orgs. throughout the U.S.

    2. It's good the "Heads" get together. I can say from personal experience there are unintended and unnecessary rivalries, paranoia, and trash talking (through private channels) from some "Heads" about other "Heads" and orgs. Usually derived from a lack of knowledge, trust and "face-time" with each other. This kind of meeting serves the leaders of these groups well. But keep in mind, it only serves the leaders of only these groups and not the rest of the hundreds of other influential local, state and regional orgs. out there who are in the trenches every day working with local talent, organizers, activists, city, county and state representatives, charities, city leaders etc.

    3. Some of "Heads" run strong and influential national orgs, while some just run "paper tigers" for orgs but have friendships within the heads and are still invited. Those who attend the Heads meeting change every year due to changing leadership within their respective orgs.

    End: While the Heads meeting is a good thing, (for those in the "Heads") it doesn't have much impact for the rest of us. In fact it does give the impression of an exclusionary, elitist group who try to dictate policy for the rest of us. This not entirely true. I would say that if anybody from any of the "Heads" came to any of the groups I'm associated with and said "Ok, we had our meeting and this is what we're all going to do." The response they'd get from us would be, uh, not positive.

    January 25, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • New Athiest

      Would it be disrespectful to ask where the next meeting will be so we can all go get some Heads?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • niknak

      What the head are you talking about?!?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Deb

      You will never get the atheists of this world to unite. Why? There isn't a big enough rock for all of them to crawl under.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Deb

      Aww how cute. Did you think of that all by your little self?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Deb

      hawaiiguest, you know you thorns are too arrogant to gather together. Do something/anything for someone else? It's against you self centered natures.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • sam

      Great, Deb is back. And snottier than ever.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Deb

      sam, I know, you thorns don't like being busted.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
    • sam

      What's your obsession with thorns? Oh, I just bet you have a bible quote or two about thorns you could regale us with!

      Also, it's funny that you think of 'delusional BS' as 'busting' anyone. You are just a peach, and I'm sure you're very popular among your coffee clatch.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Deb

      sam, there are bible quotes on thorns but you'll have to look them up for yourself.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • Deb

      sam, just don't be allowed to purchase a gun. We saw what the likes of your kind does with them. Instant gratification, anyone?

      January 25, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
  7. Poltergeist

    You're not going to organize nones because they aren't a single demographic, just a catch all for everything else. So just because you run out and say you don't believe in anything, don't expect 20% of the vote.

    Regardless, we need politicians who are making effective policy, not making Washington grounds for their religious/anti religious strife. If "Athiest leader" is the only thing on your, resume it makes you just about as qualified as "Church pastor".

    January 25, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • niknak

      Given that choice, I am going with atheist hands down for my vote.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • New Athiest

      You could make the same arguement about christians in America. There are over 1,000 different denominations.
      At least the 'nones' dont all think all the other 'nones' will be in hell forever.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      Voting for people based on belief system doesn't grant you any favors. Just gives the politician a card to play when he needs to rally support. It's pretty much the evangelical model.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Deb

      Poltergeist, the politicians of the world are too busy playing "wag the dog" using Piers Morgan as their official mouth.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
  8. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    it's Friday
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUmOnMJjmYY&w=640&h=390]

    January 25, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
  9. Banjo Ferret

    This pleases Tim the Destroyer of Worlds. Step one, lose the false sky daddies. Step two, embrace Ferretianism as the one true religion. Tim is your one and only savior. Repent! (banjoferret d c)

    January 25, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      are you the great Tim from Monty Python and the Holy Grail that can command fire and brimstone?!?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Banjo Ferret

      Alas, not the Monty Python Tim. Although, Monty Python is highly regarded in the Ferretianism culture. Tim the Destroyer of Worlds has a vibrant sense of humor.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
  10. This is for all you

    I want each of you to undestand this, not only did you not serve JESUS CHRIST, you took a picture saying impeach my FATHER (GOD). This organization is going to place that I would not wish on my worst enemy. . YOU TOOK A PICTURE!!!!! WOW. You have no idea what you have done.

    January 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • sam stone

      blah, blah, fvckig blah

      January 25, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      jesus christ walks into an inn...
      he hands the innkeeper 3 nails and says...
      can you put me up for the night?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      And now he's going to rub one out while thinking about how sorry all those who laughed at his imaginary buddy jeebus are going to be.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • sam stone

      isn't it god's call to say who is going to that place? or, are you authorized to speak for god?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Banjo Ferret

      Repent! Jesus is a false prophet. Tim the Destroyer of Worlds is your savior. Embrace Ferretianism as the one true religion or be devoured by demon marmots in the Pit of Despair! (banjoferet d c)

      January 25, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Bet

      This is for all you
      I want each of you to undestand this, not only did you not serve JESUS CHRIST, you took a picture saying impeach my FATHER (GOD). This organization is going to place that I would not wish on my worst enemy. . YOU TOOK A PICTURE!!!!! WOW. You have no idea what you have done.

      Somehow, I can't help hearing Al Pacino's voice when I read this.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • sam stone

      TANK: Well, you know they all say how blessed it is to c-o-m-e in the name of the lord. "Oh Jeebus, oh G-G-God!"

      January 25, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • niknak

      So many trolls, so little time.....

      January 25, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      HOW DARE THEY SAY IMPEACH GAWD? FOR MORE PLEASE VISIT MY VIDEO ABOVE.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • New Athiest

      Why does the picture matter?
      Does your god need photograhs to remember names and places?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • sam

      There's a picture! Shit just got real!!

      January 25, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
  11. SoldierOfConscience

    Asking for scientific proof of God is like asking to see a sound. You cant. You hear it. Similarly, you can get very spiritual and in a good place but cant find that place under a microscope or by logic. One can infer the miracles of God, like people healing from brink of death. Thats like seeing the opera singer shatter a glass using her voice. You still cannot see the voice.

    January 25, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      But we can measure the tone and sound waves by using...
      DUN DUN DUN
      Science O.o

      January 25, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      bats see sound. it's called radar. they use sound to get a picture in their mind of their surrounds. so you're wrong. we can detect sound, which just vibration by LOTS of means. so you're very very wrong.

      and it's a childish excuse for not proving god. all you're doing is saying he doesn't really exist - which is why there's no proof for him. hard to prove the tooth fairy exists, isn't it? since you can't - does that mean the tooth fairy is real? pretty bad "logic."

      January 25, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • The Truth

      You can see sound. We have built machines which can turn sound waves into visible lines we can read, test and study.

      Asking for scientific proof of God is more like asking to see a unicorn...

      January 25, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      hawaii, that was an analogy. so you can measure sound. great. You still cant measure God. because he created science and made himself above it.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Soldier

      You have defined an unfalsifiable concept that by definition cannot have evidence for or against it, and is entirely indistiguishable from the non-existence of that thing. It is a useless proposition meant to insulate yourself from any examination of dissenting opinion.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • The Truth

      "You still cant measure God. because he created science and made himself above it." What a wonderful cop-out knowing there is no evidence of God and thus no evidence that he created anything or is above anything, but you just claim he essentially cannot be tested and we should accept God based on blind faith because God is outside of our understanding. Well, then I am Gods only servant and the only one that will go to heaven and all the rest of humanity will be tortured for eternity, prove me wrong. Oh, wait, you can't because my God is outside the realm of science and thus not testable, too bad for you...

      January 25, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "You can't measure God" and yet the christian kooks are so sure it exists, they even claim to have a personal relationship with it.

      See what's wrong with this situation? You claim the ultimate knowledge with the minimum of proof.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      "hawaii, that was an analogy. so you can measure sound. great. You still cant measure God. because he created science and made himself above it."

      LOL! proven wrong. at least you admit it - never seen a christian do that before. kudos. but then you go into your lame excuse why you don't have to have proof. funny how you started with an analogy of how some things are just untestable and that's your proof for god. except we showed you that you were wrong. sound can be tested. wasn't that the whole point of your post? to show that since product A can't be tested for - it proves product B, which is invisible, can also exist. except we proved that product A can indeed be tested for. which kind of screws up your logic for product B...

      January 25, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      You didnt prove me wrong about sound. I told you to percieve sound using your eyes and only your eyes. (no instruments or logic). The way you can see an apple kept on a table in front of you. can you do this?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • niknak

      Wow, we really have an intellectual winner here.
      You are even backwards for a fundie soldierofortune.
      Those arguements are something a little child would come up with.
      What's next, I'm rubber you're glue?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Soldier

      Do you have a point at all instead of moving the goalposts all over the place?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • Bet

      Actually, I know someone who can do that. She also sees numbers and letters as colors. She's a brilliant protein scientist and I worked with her for 10 years.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • SoldierOfStupidity

      You can't see sound just like empty space is really empty. I mean, empty space isn't really empty and you can see sound and the effects of sound but it's more fun to use a poor analogy and lie about it's conclusions...

      January 25, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Of course you can see sound.

      Here is a site with reall cool very high speed photos of jets breaking the sound barrier.

      http://twistedsifter.com/2012/06/pictures-of-airplanes-breaking-the-sound-barrier/

      January 25, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      ok this is what I mean. you stand, with cotton in your ears and a HUGE noise cancelling headphone so you cant hear anything. I stand behind you and softly call out your name. YOu with your eyes must be able to hear this. can you do it?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • sam

      You need a hobby. And additional education.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
  12. SoldierOfConscience

    Refuse to believe im a modern monkey, is all. evolution has a part to play but has to be directed by a creator.

    January 25, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "but has to be directed by a creator."

      Not because there's any evidence for that, of course. Just because it makes you feel better about yourself for some reason.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Pete

      More like a modern ape.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      No one says you're a modern monkey. You're a modern Ape. Big difference.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • Primewonk

      You're not a "modern monkey". You are, however, a great ape.

      You are also a horse's ass.

      The really sad part is that you have been told this literally hundreds of times. Yet you turn around and repost this (and other) lies. Your god must be so fucking proud of you.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Pete

      Y u stealz my thunder?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • Pete

      My bad, I only posted it because I am a psychic and read your mind and decided to steal what you were thinking. Soldier ought to buy that, he believes in magic.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Reminds me of that song.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      if there is a creator he's a complete @sswipe. he made cancer. he didn't make children bullet proof. he's an idiot.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      three points
      1. flagella ( irreducible complexity )
      2. whale evolution (why should mammal take to sea?)
      3. lack of transitional fossils. I would like to see a compete fossil record with every so-called ancestor between ape 10 million years ago and me.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Soldier

      Irreducible Complexity is a crock, and was shown to be so in the Dover trial.
      Mammals took to the water the same reason why reptiles took to it. Certain adaptations made it more beneficial to be in the water than on land.
      I'd like you to recount every single second of your life, otherwise you cannot say for certain you were born, and it is just an unjustified position. This is what your logic states.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • The Truth

      The universe is complex. Yes. This proves a more complex entlty must have created it. No, because that would require another more complex to have created that complex deity which then must have a more complex entlty to have created that and so on and so forth. If you cannot understand the logic of this then please go back to school and learn the definition of words and the meaning of logic.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      1. dover trails – legal crap. not scientific argument.
      2. whales – I thought you adapted via 'natural selection' for a target and then moved there, not randomly changed and then 'duh, better for me to be at sea'. my bad
      3. There are people who have seen me since birth. so thats moot. you havent. Show me one person who has seen all living animals in the human chain. So we rely on fossils. and I ask for em.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      SoldierOfConscience wrote:
      three points
      1. flagella ( irreducible complexity )
      *** go to this website and see why that argument has already been dis-proven countless times:
      http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html

      2. whale evolution (why should mammal take to sea?)
      really? why do we get food from the sea? really hard to believe an animal living on the coast and going into the sea for its main source of food would eventually stay in the sea? here, read this website:
      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/03/4/l_034_05.html

      3. lack of transitional fossils. I would like to see a compete fossil record with every so-called ancestor between ape 10 million years ago and me.
      *** you're asking for too much. humans only started collecting fossils in earnest a century ago. not much time considering all of human history. it's very difficult to even find fossils. it takes special conditions for fossils to even form. but still, there is a pretty damn good human record - you are obviously not aware of that. and what about hippos and horses? they have a VERY complete fossil record? how do you deny those fossil records?

      your arguments are childlike. do some research on your own. so far, all you've shown is that you don't know how to do basic internet research on your own.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      And I'd like to see evidence of your flying old man in the sky in action. Pointing to the bacterial flagella and mooing "It's irreducibly complex" proves nothing. Show us how a miracle is responsible for the flagellum, and not the process described and backed by evidence that is presently accepted (and which you have conveniently ignored because it creates too much dis-sonance in your pea brain.)

      January 25, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      soldier,
      how do you explain that there are over 20 distinct species of human... so far.... how do you explain those fossils? you wanted fossil records - they're out there. you ignore them in order to promote your religious ignorance. do some research. there are numerous human fossils found.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Soldier

      Do you realize that in the dover trial, Behe himself (the moron who promotes this Irreducible complexity garbage) admitted fully that his redefinition of science (which he had to do to be able to claim his IC idiocy as being scientific) would also have to include Astrology? Are you aware that the entire crux of the Dover trial was to determine whether Intelligent Design (AKA Creationism) was science or religion, and it failed miserably?
      Ah but you've been by yourself at some points in your life, and since that time is unaccounted for by anyone else. In fact, the same can be said of everyone in the world. So then no-one exists.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      Bootyfunk

      1. your website doesnt make sense as far as flagella is concerned. They have "IM", "PG" and "OM" and finally "HAP1" and "HAP3". Your TTSS has "CM", "PP" and "OM". It does not have any HAP. They are not the same.

      2. thats a lot of conjecture, about whales.

      3. to me its simple. fossil is the way we know a thing existed. Have you heard of "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof"?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • The Truth

      "Have you heard of "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof"? lol

      So to SoldierOfStupidity here, making the claim of a creator isn't "extraordinary" since he doesn't seem bothered by zero "extraordinary proof".

      January 25, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      1. your website doesnt make sense as far as flagella is concerned. They have "IM", "PG" and "OM" and finally "HAP1" and "HAP3". Your TTSS has "CM", "PP" and "OM". It does not have any HAP. They are not the same.

      THAT'S THE POINT! Remove some parts, and the flagellum does not become useless as the creationist kooks say. It simply serves ANOTHER FUNCTION.

      2. thats a lot of conjecture, about whales.

      All gleaned from observed adaptation in nature. Where's the basis for your claim of invisible sky daddies creating everything?

      3. to me its simple. fossil is the way we know a thing existed. Have you heard of "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof"?

      Due to the soft-bodied nature of most organisms and the fact that things die and wither away (Some intelligent design, huh) there will never be a complete fossil record. The general trajectory of evolution, however, remains evident from the fossils we do have. If you chose to ignore it, that's your problem.

      Oh, and extraordinary claims of flying sky wizards require proof too, y'know.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      Tank, TTSS and flagella are entirely different things, Might as well put an apple next to an orange and say "see, if the apple wasnt an apple it can be an orange". I have explained how different they are 3 posts above. Unrelated.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Hmmm, soldier seems to be ignoring my post.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      that post! just saw it. Behe was ambushed.

      how do you explain one cancer patient (e.g. Armstrong) surviving whereas other dying? There is no 'theory' for that. The theory of cancer. hah!

      January 25, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
    • Deb

      I wonder if the atheists of the world love the fact that they have made the clueless animals?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Solder

      1) What the hell does cancer have anything to do with anything?
      2) Behe wasn't ambushed, he was shown to be the ignorant moron he is.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Deb

      I wonder if you think you're actually making sense.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      HawaiiGuest,

      Deb means that instead of having our special place in creation and special relationship with our creator, we became mere animals.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • sam

      Yeah...thanks for explaining your own post, 'Deb'.

      January 25, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Soldier

      So what? Just because you want to feel special and that there's a creator doesn't make believing in nonsense justified. Find your own purpose, make yourself special. Don't rely on an unproven morally bankrupt concept of a higher being do it for you.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      I am NOT deb.

      Hawaii, what does cancer have to do with this? The day science can look at a cancer patient's face and tell "this is what is happening to you. YOU will be cured on April 30, 2014 at 10 AM" I will agree with the atheists. Thats what I meant by "theory of cancer"

      Same with Evolution. I'd go with God and his plan for us any day. At least you dont have the illusion of control.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:58 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      SOC, The Dover trial was decided by scientific evidence. There was a pile of books showing that the flagella creationist argument was bunk. Irreducible complexity is predicated on the mistaken idea that only addition can happen when in fact reuse or subtraction or both can happen to create what the evolution deniers call an irreducibly complex entity.

      January 25, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Soldier

      Are you trying to make a false analogy? If so, you're even failing at properly conveying that. Wow. Failing on actually presenting a logical fallacy. I have not seen that one before.

      January 25, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • The Truth

      " The day science can look at a cancer patient's face and tell "this is what is happening to you. YOU will be cured on April 30, 2014 at 10 AM" I will agree with the atheists. Thats what I meant by "theory of cancer"

      lol

      So I guess we also have the theory of colds, the theory of flu's and the theory of just about every other illness because I have yet to hear of one disease or infection that works as you describe save for maybe gangrene when the doctor used to have to amputate so you knew exactly when you would be getting rid of the infected limb.

      It's hard to imagine you are this stupid and still able to form semi-coherent comments.

      January 26, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, gee, SOC's back. And is still stuck on stupid.

      January 26, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      Hawaii, so you didnt understand. So I'll use a made up dialogue to convey the idea

      Atheist (A): God doesnt exist, science (medicine) has all the answers
      Religious Person (P) : If thats the case, where is the Theory of cancer, i.e. science can look at a cancer patient's face and tell "this is what is happening to you. YOU will be cured on April 30, 2014 at 10 AM"
      A: What a crock. we cant do that for any disease
      R: Aha. so science does not have all the answers. For some, only God has the answers
      A : THere is no God
      R: If you replace God with your science, then shouldnt science also be all knowing and be able to predict anything? i.e. a "theory of everything"
      A: er. ah. um.

      January 26, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
  13. Chad

    If there were no God, there would be no Atheists - G. K. Chesterton

    ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ - Jesus Christ

    January 25, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      if there were no Flying Spaghetti Monster, there would be no one who did not bellieve in the Flying Spaghetti Monster

      January 25, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • sam stone

      and, if there was no one who did not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I suppose that would mean that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was real.

      Isn't that right, Chard?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Deuteronomy 20:13 ‘If a man has sèxual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death;

      What's your personal talley up to Chad? Or are you OK with disobeying the word of your god?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Chad

      Excellent point,

      uh..

      except.. no one that I am aware of goes around all day every day hurling obscenities at people who "believe" in the FSM.. There actually seems to be a real shortage of that.. no billboards out there.. nothing.

      in fact, if you post something saying you believe in the FSM, I doubt you will get a single person calling you a moron. You will however get a lot of people chiming in and saying they also believe, and why dont Christians believe, etc.. etc..

      January 25, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Pete

      Actually Sam, the verse in the bible that I often see quoted goes more like this: The fact that some people don't believe the bible proves that the bible is true.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Chad

      @peter
      there is no verse in the bible that says "The fact that some people don't believe the bible proves that the bible is true."

      January 25, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      if there were no gods, EVERYONE would be an atheist...

      January 25, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • Pete

      That is why I didn't use quotes, Chadwick

      January 25, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      Could you please go into greater depth on why you posted that quote? It seems like a statement of fact to me that yes, if there was a god, there would be no atheists, the same way that if you were to say, if superman exists then he will save metroplis. The second part of the sentence is true only if the first part is a fact.

      To go further, I fully agree with the statement and freely admit that if god were to appear before me and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was real and that the bible is the right book, I would become a christian immediately.

      The real question here is, can you say the same? If god appeared before you and said he was real, however his name was allah and the muslims had it right, would you convert? what if god asked why you didn't listen to his last prophet, joseph smith?

      Indulge me here, I know you don't like hypotheticals, they frighten you, but for sh.its, would you convert?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Chad

      @Pete "That is why I didn't use quotes, Chadwick"
      @Chad "ah.. so when you said the verse in the bible that I often see quoted goes more like this: The fact that some people don't believe the bible proves that the bible is true
      you meant ... ah... um...
      I give up, what did you mean?

      ======
      @Chuckles
      sorry to ask you to read it again, but you'll have to read it again..

      The point Chesterton is making, is that if the God of Israel didnt exist, no one would be protesting that He doesnt.

      Just like no one protests that the FSM doesnt exist.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • The Truth

      If there were no humans making a claim of God with zero evidence, there would be no Atheists...

      January 25, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      My apologies, I totally read that wrong.

      I guess I'm still confused, do you honestly think that atheism only sprouted from the specific refusal to believe in the god of the bible? Wouldn't the quote make sense if either a) it said, "If there were no Gods, there would be no atheists" or b) it said, "if there was no religion, there would be no atheists"?

      Also, would you please still indulge me here? Would you convert if god appeared and said his name was, Vishnu, or Allah, or Yahweh (specifically jewish god, not christian god)?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Chad

      If there were no humans making a claim of FSM with zero evidence, there would be no FSM-Atheists...

      oh wait..

      there arent any FSM-Atheists, and there are humans making a claim of the FSM with zero evidence..

      the logic fails.. Why? Why are there no people vociferously denying the FSM?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      christians protest the muslim god. they say Allah does not exist. so by your definition, he does?

      wow, it's hard to be stupid. but you show that it can be done.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      It depends on what you mean here. People ARE denying the existance of the FSM, just not as vociferously as say, Allah, or God, or Vishnu for the same reason people aren't vociferously denying the existance of Ra or Thor or Zeus. There aren't serious people who seriously believe in those characters existance anymore and the FSM is a stand in as a way to reflect your own belief at you. You, as a christian, and most people in the world at "FSM-atheists" as you put it, the same way you are a "Zeus-atheist" or any number of things.

      If you think that atheism is purely concerned with just the god of the bible, then you are completely and utterly wrong.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Chad

      @Chuckles "I guess I'm still confused, do you honestly think that atheism only sprouted from the specific refusal to believe in the god of the bible?"
      @Chad "yes, that much is perfectly clear. Atheism opposes Judeo/Christianity.
      where are the anti-Islamist, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu?
      just arent there really.. couple people here and there but a trivial fraction of the ones that oppose the God of Israel.

      "well, the US is mostly Christian, that's why we oppose it"
      so, where then are the atheists in the other countries opposing the Islam/Hindu/etc?

      dont really exist at all..

      Atheism world wide is concentrated in countries that are Judeo/Christian, and specifically oppose the God of Israel. That is just a cold hard fact.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • The Truth

      Chad logic fail. FSM-atheist = just atheist since if anyone claims the FSM is a God then atheists by definition do not believe in it.

      I do not believe in the FSM, though I do understand that the FSM is as possible as the Hebrew God, which is to say, not at all, because both have been presented with zero real evidence. Someone writing a book about the FSM does not constltute evidence.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • Banjo Ferret

      Ferretianism is the one true religion. Therefore, Ferretianism is truth. Therefore, Tim the Destroyer of Worlds is your savior. Therefore, the world will end soon. Therefore, some other incoherent connection. Therefore, what? Repent! (banjoferret d c)

      January 25, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • sam stone

      Chard: No one who believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is trying to use that belief to deny others their civil rights. The same cannot be said of Jesus svcking sycophants such as you and your alter ego Buster Brown

      January 25, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • ME II

      "Indian atheists seek recognition in the land of a million gods"
      ( http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-06-30/science/32483706_1_atheists-religion-beliefs )

      "Why It’s Not Easy to be Atheist in India"
      ( http://www.theworld.org/2012/12/atheist-india/ )

      " Yes, non-believers: Atheists, Agnostics, Secular Humanists, Freethinkers, and with whatever name we choose, we are everywhere. From Islam majority countries like Malaysia and Indonesia, to the Catholic Phillipines, Buddhist Thailand, and Singapore, we exist."
      ( http://www.sea-atheists.org/ )

      January 25, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      When I say I'm an atheist, that includes all religions, period. Would you like to discuss how we both don't be in Allah? We'll use different reasoning but the outcome will be the same. It's not simply that the US is a "christian nation", it's tailored to who I am speaking to. You should see the debates I get in with my own family. We all agree that christianity is a crock but they believe that Judaism makes sense (for some reason).

      Atheism has been around as long as religion, however America is a place where atheism has been able to become more vocal without government intervention, or complete community ejection. I promise you, go to places in Europe and you will find the same thing, atheism from people ranting against everything from christianity to wicca.

      The backlash you see specific to the belief blog isn't representative to the whole of the atheism debate and if you would seriously like to discuss the merits of why, say Islam is a false or why Ancient Greek religion has been relegated to mythology I'd be more than happy to discuss that with you,

      January 25, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • ME II

      "Hindu Caste Apologetics and the Culpability of the Pre-Adi-Sankara Era"
      http://nirmukta.com/2012/07/16/hindu-caste-apologetics-and-the-culpability-of-the-pre-adi-sankara-era/

      "Dr. Zakir Naik [,a Muslim]: A Modern Charlatan"
      http://nirmukta.com/2011/09/07/dr-zakir-naik-a-modern-charlatan/

      "Bhagavad Gita – Another critical perspective to consider adding to its armory of refutation"
      http://nirmukta.com/2012/01/24/bhagavad-gita-another-critical-perspective-to-consider-adding-to-its-armory-of-refutation/

      January 25, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II,
      never, ever, ever ceases to amaze me that atheists never seem to look anything up before posting..

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atheists_Agnostics_Zuckerman_en.svg

      as you can see, concentration in Christian countries (and obviously countries with an official state religion of atheism, China, Vietnam).

      January 25, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • FSM

      "Why? Why are there no people vociferously denying the FSM?"

      http://www.venganza.org/category/hate-mail/

      45 pages of infidels denying our Noodly Spaghedeity. The FSM will surely punish them.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      You are A) ignoring this little ti.d bit, "Fra.ction of atheists and agnostics in different countries. The values for China, Cuba, and North Korea must be viewed with sk.eptic.ism as compar.atively little data is available in these countries."

      B) like I said in my earlier post, atheism has been able to really take a hold in countries that let them freely voice their opinion without governmental or communal bac.kla.sh. Trying speaking about atheism in a place like Brazil and you'll see how quickly you get shut down.

      It should also be noted that one of the most atheists country on the map you provided is in Ja.pan, which is an incredibly small, almost non existant christian population and their state religion is Shi.nto and yet atheism is thriving there.

      C) Look at the other maps provided and you'll see how atheism matches up with believers, as well as importance of religion in those respective countries and you'll see why atheism has had a bigger impact in say a place like Ja.pan which has a middling believer population and almost no religion importance vs. India which places huge amounts of importance on religion and most likely from that stifles any person willing to speak against the state religion

      Did you not think I wouldn't actually look at what you posted?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "never, ever, ever ceases to amaze me that atheists never seem to look anything up before posting.."

      I thought you were asking:
      "where are the anti-Islamist, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu?"
      "so, where then are the atheists in the other countries opposing the Islam/Hindu/etc?"

      January 25, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Chad

      @FSM "45 pages of infidels denying our Noodly Spaghedeity."
      @Chad "WOW
      45 pages!!

      that is indeed impressive.. I mean, 45 entire pages of opposition.
      Compare that to the CNN Religion blog which is just one of hundreds, and generates that much opposition in a single day alone sometimes..

      wait..

      what was your point?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      You said.
      "dont really exist at all.."

      Is that true?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "I thought you were asking: "where are the anti-Islamist, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu?" "so, where then are the atheists in the other countries opposing the Islam/Hindu/etc?""

      @Chad "right, where are they? Why is the VAST majority of atheists world wide concentrated in Judeo/Christian countries opposing the Judeo/Christian God?"

      January 25, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Chad

      "dont really exist at"
      in the context, yes that is accurate

      January 25, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Chad

      my point isnt that there are zero atheists in Hindu/Islam/etc, rather that the overwhelming majority of atheists are in Judeo/Christian countries opposing the Judeo/Christian God.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      If there were a God, Chad would still be here defending belief in God.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad
      "right, where are they? Why is the VAST majority of atheists world wide concentrated in Judeo/Christian countries opposing the Judeo/Christian God?"

      Ah, so you're going with a sort of reverse argumentum ad populum?
      Good to know.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      "Why is the VAST majority of atheists world wide concentrated in Judeo/Christian countries opposing the Judeo/Christian God?"
      - Did you even look at the map you posted. Out of the most heavily atheist places worlwide, there is Sweden, Ja.pan and Thailand, only one of those places can be considered "christian" in the sense that it has a christian heritage. On top of that you are again completely missing the corresponding map that lays out which countries are ones that think religion is least important. You can see that atheism is concentrated in the places where the main population doesn't find religion to be very important. Whether they also happen to have christian roots is a by product or even possibly the cause of people wanting to distance themselves from religion, however it's clear atheism isn't centered because of christianity, it's because of those countries own desires to reject religion, christianity specifically and atheism is filling in those gaps.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @ME II et al

      Seriously, take a look at the map Chad just posted, it's more damning to his argument here than anything you or I could come up with off the top of our heads. All you have to do is take a second and look at the map and realize that Chad just shot himself in the foot with this one.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      chad can't see past his feet which is why he always trips over them and why his bullets all end up in them.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Chad

      "reverse argumentum ad populum"

      =>no.. perhaps you arent familiar with the definition:
      argumentum ad populum concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it.

      a "reverse argumentum ad populum" would be something like "a proposition is true because not many people believe it"

      In either case, I am not appealing to a group of large or small people believing my proposition to be true, I am simply pointing out what the demographics of atheism show, namely that the vast and overwhelming majority of atheists are in Judeo/Christian countries opposing the Judeo/Christian God. It is a simple definition of fact, of demographics.

      but, nice try at a dodge anyways...

      January 25, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chuckles,
      I see your point, but I think it is a bad argument either way.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @ME II

      Of course, but in this case, instead of the usual, "show your sources", it's easier to use the stuff Chad has already posted and dismantle it that way, on top of that, it's a pretty neat map either way. Showing Atheists, Irreligious, Believers and Importance of religion. When you look at them overlaid, it seems pretty evident why athests are where they are and it has nothing to do with christianity vs. islam or hinduism insomuch has an atheist conspiracy to target christianity specifically.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • Chad

      @Chuckles,
      sigh..
      In the map, what you erroneously identify as "Thailand" is actually Vietnam (state sponsored atheism).
      You should check out Google maps.. wonderful tool if geography isn't your strongest area..

      ======
      http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist1b.htm

      of the ~20 nations listed with the highest atheist rates, only ONE country (Ja pan) does not have an official state policy of atheism, and does not have a population with a Christian majority.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
    • Deb

      You atheist should thank your lucky stars that there are many more believers in the world than thorns. You'd be horrified if the world were as spiritual dead as you.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      I guess I'm not clear on your point. What do you think that the most atheists being in Christian countries means?

      Also, by population the top 3 countries for atheists are:
      China 103,907,840 – 181,838,720
      Ja.pan 81,493,120 – 82,766,450
      Vietnam 66,978,900
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_by_country, only 2004 data though.)

      January 25, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      "I am the god of hellfire" – Arthur Brown

      January 25, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "I guess I'm not clear on your point. What do you think that the most atheists being in Christian countries means?"

      @Chad "it means that the vast majority of atheists world wide who do not live in countries where atheism is a past or present state policy, live in countries with a Judeo/Christian majority and specifically oppose the Judeo/Christian God."

      January 25, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      Wait a second, so just because I misidentified a single country you are disregarding my entire argument? I quoted the part about looking at the map for state sponsored places with skepticism, I then went into detail about overlaying those maps with the others provided below where it clearly spells out why atheism is being concentrated in place that place religion as least important.

      Moreso, if we throw out stats communist countries like China, Cuba, NK and Vietnam because they are historically tight lipped about any information, the only two places with a really heavily concentrated area of atheists is Sweden and Ja.pan. I guess you could use percentages and say 50% is a huge number to rage against a nation with christian roots, but you would be will fully ignoring the bigger picture.

      Lets try this again chad, using your own maps that you provided, you have shown that atheism is not a product of a place being heavily christian (see: Brazil, or even the US) but is only lightly concentrated in places that place a high value on religion (Latin America, India, The ME, etc...) and that your claims that atheism is only a by product of christianity is false.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      and PS lets not even go into the fact that being identified as "atheist" means disbelief in all religion. Period. That definition isn't up for debate or discussion. Looking a at a world map of countries with high atheists population does NOT mean that they are in direct opposition of the biblical god insofar as that god is just one of all religious dieties that atheists do not believe in. The religiousity of specific countries where atheists are concentrated is irrelevant. The only really relevant part about why atheists are concentrated in Western, democratic countries is to the corresponding map that shows which countries find religion least important and the fact that democracies allow their citizens to practice freedom of (or from) religion.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • fred

      Atheists then to circle their wagons around Philosophical Naturalism defending their unknown god much like any good cult would do. Just to help me get clear it seems believers and non believers have fundamental doctrine they cling to. Why do atheists continue to insist atheism is not a belief?

      January 25, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      Ya lost me. "defending their unknown god much like any good cult would do" – what unknown god? When have I or any atheist every mentioned this "unknown god" and still claimed to be atheist?

      "believers and non believers have fundamental doctrine they cling to. Why do atheists continue to insist atheism is not a belief?"

      -What fundemental doctrine is that? The only thing fred, and make sure to write this down, the only thing that ties atheists together is that they all of fundementally rejected religion and do not believe in a god or gods. That's it. That's not doctrine, that's not holy writ, it's just what makes an atheist an atheist the same way you classify someone with blue eyes. Just because two people have blue eyes in no way means they are similar in any way other than one common trait.
      As for how atheism is not a belief, simple: I'm not making an affirmative, I'm simply rejecting your afirmation. I'm essentially saying, "I don't believe you" , my disbelief in no way creates no belief, or a new religion or anything resembling one.

      January 25, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      Is that disbelief based on philosophical naturalism? By that I mean is this disbelief based on failure of the evidence for God to meet the standards of scientific method?
      Believers come in all sorts as do non believers with fundamentalists at the extremes. I ran into a “cult” of atheists once at a prayer rally. I was amazed how they all had the same sound bites which began to sound like the doctrine of some religious cults.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Fred

      my disbelief comes from theological study as well as studying my environment around me. I have no idea if there is some sentient being roving the universe with omnipotence and happened to pass by earth, who knows. The god of the bible, who used to send angels, plagues, floods, etc.. down all of a sudden went quiet when we could actually write down history with more objectivity, which is mighty strange wouldn't you say?

      As for the atheist "cult" your speaking of. You're using the term way to loosly unless you think you are also part of a cult, then I guess the term would cut both ways. If you think your religion, or specifically your prayer rally didn't have the hallmarks of a cult, then it's patently ridciulous to pin that term on atheists who might have showed up to oppose it.

      Even so, a group of atheists showing up to oppose prayer (presumably in a public square and not at your church) with some talking points is a far cry from religious doctrine or any sort of religion at all.

      Fred, trying to drag atheism down to your level is akin to an idiot trying to drag a person down to his level in an argument and trying to beat him with expereince. I get that you consider yourself well versed in religion and so when you talk about atheism is makes more sense to frame it in religious context so you can dismantle it as being a very very poor religion, but give it up bud, atheism in no way resembles a religion.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      The god of the bible, who used to send angels, plagues, floods, etc.. down all of a sudden went quiet when we could actually write down history with more objectivity, which is mighty strange wouldn't you say?”
      =>There were periods in the Bible where God was “quiet” such as the 430 years the chosen ones were slaves in Egypt. Jesus performed great miracles yet they were mostly signs that pointed to his Deity in order to fulfill scripture prophecy. At the Cross Jesus did say it is finished as the perfect Lamb of God was sacrificed. That day forward the Holy Spirit would dwell in the believer and bring that believer to all truth. The bases are covered as to why it seems “quiet”, but is it really that quiet?
      The chosen ones had about 2,200 years if we start with Abraham and the Christians have had about 2,000 years. One group had the physical manifestations and the law proving they could not get it right by falling short of the glory of God. The new group has the Holy Spirit and are proving they also fall short of the glory of God. In about 200 years the circle will be complete That said you have your proof that the promise given to Abraham is true to this day. The decedents of Ishmael (Palestinians) are still kicking at the chosen brother Isaac (Jews in their promised land). As long as these two are dukeing it out life goes on!

      January 25, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      If there were a god there would be no atheists.

      January 25, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • fred

      In Santa We Trust
      There will be no atheists is correct.
      It is written for every knee shall bow and every tongue confess.

      January 25, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
  14. Bootyfunk

    oh christians, gonna be a sad future for you as your cult withers away into irrelevance. already happened in europe. the US is next. buh-bye!

    January 25, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Booty...hate to burst your bubble, but Christianity isn't dying, its growing. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-12-20/christianity-growth-africa-europe/52125920/1

      January 25, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • New Athiest

      Agreed.
      I thought they were on a path to implode, with the aging priest & Nun populations. It seems their end is coming faster!

      January 25, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • VanHagar

      A few years old, but haven't seen anything knocking the trend: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118434936941966055.html

      January 25, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • New Athiest

      @VanHagar
      statistics can say whatever you want them to.
      http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm
      Christianity is declining worldwide.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      America not becoming less christian? lol.
      http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/living/us.religion.less.christian_1_american-religious-identification-survey-christian-nation-evangelical?_s=PM:LIVING
      "Seventy-five percent of Americans call themselves Christian, according to the American Religious Identification Survey from Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut. In 1990, the figure was 86 percent."

      http://secularist10.hubpages.com/hub/The-Decline-and-Fall-of-Christianity
      http://donboydblog.com/2013/01/10/christianity-is-declining-in-the-u-s/

      yes, christianity is going away. all the polls show it. church attendance is at a low. the priesthood is short on new members. christians hate facts, i know...

      January 25, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Rob

      Any second now we should see a xTian spouting stats about "how xTianity is growing worldwide", citing specifically the rise in numbers in the poorest parts of the planet, namely South America, the Philippines, and Africa. He won't mention the "poor" part, nor will he mention these fascinating items: The recent anti-gay law in Uganda...passed...and its supporters...funded by evangelical xTians from the U.S. The Pope says, in Rwanda, the most Catholic country in Africa, that AIDS is bad, but condoms are worse. Yes, the numbers may support the claim that xTianity is rising, but only amongst the poorest and most uneducated...in other words, those who are easily indoctrinated into believing in Bronze Age fairy tales and ancient rituals. It wouldn't surprise me if we begin hearing stories of those "converts" being converted at the point of a sword...as xTian missionaries did in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries...

      January 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • VanHagar

      All the polls show it, Bootyfunk said it. Of course the pew poll cited in the first article i referenced was made up.

      There may be a decline in some parts of the world...including America. If you want to insulate yourself and suggest that the western world is the only world–be my guess. On the whole, Christianity is growing–ALL the polls show it (tee hee).

      January 25, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Rob...thank you for all the irrelevance you spout. If you have facts about coerced conversions, prove now or forever continue to make it up as you go along.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      all polls/surveys except the ones i posted...?

      read this and realize you're wrong:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/religiosity-plummets-ireland-declines-worldwide-atheism_n_1757453.html
      says christianity is declining worldwide - so want to tak eback your comment?

      January 25, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @VanHagar

      The first link you posted in this thread ONLY talked about the growth of christianity in Africa.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Van Hagar

      Just be aware, we are the generation that has spawned the hipster, the type of person who doesn't like big, mainstreamism. The only way christianity is going to survive is if they shrink and become alternative to the point where someone can utter the phrase, "you've probably never heard of it"

      January 25, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Banjo Ferret

      Statistical correction: the world is ditching false sky daddies and becoming more Ferretian. Tim the Destroyer of Worlds is your savior. Ferretianism is the one true religion. Repent! (banjoferret d c)

      January 25, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Joe Bauers

      VanHagar,

      Christianity (and Islam) are growing in numbers because they are breeding like rabbits.

      Watch the movie, "Idiocracy" - it (or worse) *could* happen!

      January 25, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • Deb

      Bootyfunk, I thank God that the average person is in touch with their emotions, not sociopathic like you atheists are.

      January 25, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • sam

      Deb, I wish you were in touch with the nearest electrical source.

      January 25, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
  15. spacecalculus

    “I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being, first and foremost, and as such I'm for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.”
    ― Malcolm X

    January 25, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
  16. Sane Person

    Why are we called "nones"? They should just call us normal people who live in reality without any ancient fairy tale beliefs

    January 25, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • uoıƃılǝɹ ɟo uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɥʇ

      pɹıǝʍ sı lɐɯɹou 'plɹoʍ-oʇɹǝʌuı opɹıǝʍ uɐıʇsıɹɥɔ uı ǝsnɐɔǝq

      January 25, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Rocket

      Isn't Santa clause, Easter bunny, and science fiction movies. Movies about things that are fictional that could not happen in real life. Athiest do believe in fairy tales.

      January 25, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Deb

      Rocket, how's that thorn lifestyle working for you?

      January 25, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
  17. Dawkins is an idiot

    James Holmes was an 'agnostic'. Not much different than an idiot atheist, just a little less dogmatic

    January 25, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Chuckles

      Anders Brevik was a devout christian.....

      Oh wait, I don't think it really matters what religion, or lack thereof, a murderer is

      Then again, you are a troll so this post is completely lost on you.

      January 25, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • sam

      Boring troll....

      January 25, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Dawkins is an idiot

      I'm not a troll! You guys are just sore losers, because I state facts that show what idiots you are

      January 25, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Observer

      @Dawkins is an idiot,

      If Dawkins is an idiot, please tell us your IQ for comparison to an idiot.

      January 25, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Jim Jones – theist
      David Koresch – theist
      Tim McVeigh – theist
      19 9/11 terrorists – all theists

      We can play this game all fucking day if you want.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Yup

      Hitler was a christian, no different than idiot christians. This game is fun.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • FS

      Famous ppl make poor representatives for a massive group...whether it is religious or non-religious groups.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Dawkins is an idiot

      Hey you stupid tard, Primewok, Hitler took a page right out 'origin of species' to try and create a perfect race. Do some research you idiot. He used the corrupt Catholic Church for power.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Right because no religion advocates the thought of a chosen......people....wait.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Don't let reality stand in the way of your prejudices, buddy!

      Social Darwinism is not evolution. It was not invented by Darwin. It is a perversion of the theory done by racists to justify their existing prejudices. If you accept that Social Darwinism is Darwinism, then you similarly must accept that the KKK is Christianity.

      You are either a total idiot, or a liar. Perhaps both.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      Dawkins is an idiot, your Facts are wrong. But then again Religion doesn't need facts

      January 25, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • John not the Baptist

      I have verifiable proof that Dawkins walked on water, cured the sick, changed water into a decent Pinot Noir, raised people from the dead, etc. or maybe not; the idiot is a jesus freaker like you.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Dawkins is an idiot

      U idiots think a frog can turn into a prince. That's a fairy tale myth, u stupid idiots. Mutations do not create new species, natural selection does not create new species. You have 'faith' in those beliefs but they are fairy tales.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • The Real World

      So you think that if you claim evolution doesn't work, then it becomes true? Sorry, but there is enormous mountains of evidence for evolution, and not the tiniest scrap of evidence for what you arrogantly assert.

      Want to see proof of your earlier primate species? Look in the mirror and smile. See those canine teeth? The serve no practical use now, but once they were use for seizing and killing prey. That tail bone back there? Guess what! And it is a full tail in embryonic stages.

      Deny all you want, but the lie told many times does not become the truth.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • John not the Baptist

      You are an Idiot
      And you think that jesus on a stick is going to forgive you all your sins and take you io everlasting paradise. OK, your delusion must make you feel so warm and fuzzy, enjoy.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      many more christian nutjobs than "none" nutjobs. check the stats, tiger.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Poor religious troll. From one Red Herring to the next.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Susan StoHelit

      Most atheists are agnostic atheists – the gnostic atheists are an incredibly small group.

      The two terms refer to different things – gnostic refers to knowledge – whether or not you think you can state with absolute certainty if there is or is not a god – most beleivers think this can be stated with certainty (a gnostic theist) – most unbelievers do not see this as a matter for certainty (angostic atheist). Theist refers to whether or not you believe in a god.

      These are two different axis, stating your position on one does not indicate your position on the other. It's unwise to call people idiots when making such an elementary error about what the terms mean.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Larry of Nazareth

      For reference, Susan, we did a couple surveys over the years here, and when asked is somehow proof came that there was a god, as I recall all atheists stated they would take in the information and adjust their views, though most stated they wanted a lot of explaination before they would consider worship. On the other hand, when religious people were given the scenario that absolute proof emerged that proved there was no god, all refused to accept the information, stating it was a trick of the devil or similar.

      Basically, atheists are pretty close to universally open-minded towards adjusting their views based on new information. Does that mean that all atheists are ultimately agnostic in the tiniest sense? Not for me to decide. The stunning part was that religious peoplee were so absolute in their closed-mindedness.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Observer

      @Dawkins is an idiot,

      Sorry you missed the question. Here it is again:

      If Dawkins is an idiot, please tell us your IQ for comparison to an idiot.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
  18. ME II

    "BUT... but... the friggin dinosaurs in your museum are still between 60 to 200 million years old. OKAY??"

    Carbon 14 is not used in radiometric dating beyond 60,000 years or so.

    "Some of the isotopes used for this purpose are uranium-238, uranium-235 and potassium-40, each of which has a half-life of more than a million years."
    (http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geology/dinosaur-bone-age.htm, not the best source, but you'll get the idea.)

    January 25, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • ME II

      misposted... meant for @SoldierOfConscience below.

      January 25, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
  19. Reality

    A recommended creed for all of these groups:

    The Apostles' / Agnostics’ Creed 2013 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    (References used are available upon request.)

    January 25, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
  20. SoldierOfConscience

    There was a radiation event detected at 8th century which injected bunch of C-14 into earth.
    With this in mind, carbon-14 dating is only accurate up to within 50,000 years (or so), so IF there were multiple radiation events, then we'd see a distortion in the 14C baseline – which, by the way, we do; that's why the disclaimer. BUT... but... the friggin dinosaurs in your museum are still between 60 to 200 million years old. OKAY??

    January 25, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Gullible4Him

      @SoldierOfStupidity

      Who asked?

      January 25, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • ME II

      (repost)
      "BUT... but... the friggin dinosaurs in your museum are still between 60 to 200 million years old. OKAY??"

      Carbon 14 is not used in radiometric dating beyond 60,000 years or so.

      "Some of the isotopes used for this purpose are uranium-238, uranium-235 and potassium-40, each of which has a half-life of more than a million years."
      (http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geology/dinosaur-bone-age.htm, not the best source, but you'll get the idea.)

      January 25, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      evidence for evolution does not come exclusively from teh fossil record.
      Vestigial features, study of ebryonic development, biogeography, DNA sequencing, examining pseudogenes, study of endogenous retroviruses, labratory direct examination of natural selection in action in E-Coli bacteria, lactose intolerance in humans, the peppered moth's colour change in reaction to industrial pollution, radiotrophic fungi at Chernobyl all add to the modern evolutionary synthesis. We have directly observes speciation in Blackcap birds, fruit flies, mosquitos, mice, Shortfin molly fish....

      Carbon14 dating is but one method used to determine the age of an object – and a rather limited one at that since it only is useful for organic material less than around 50,000 years old.
      There are many other dating methods used including, but not limited to:
      Stratigraphy, Dendrochronology,Obsidian Hydration Dating, Paleomagnetic/Archaeomagnetic , Luminescence Dating,
      Amino Acid Racemization, Fission-track Dating, Ice Cores, Cation Ratio, Fluorine Dating, Patination, oxidizable Carbon Ratio, Electron Spin Resonance ,Cosmic-ray Exposure Dating etc.

      January 25, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      You think carbon dating is the only method of establishing absolute dates there is??

      How much effort does it require to sustain this level of ignorance?

      January 25, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Primewonk

      The increase in c14 levels were noted in 2 years worth of tree rings in a specific area. More research will be done.

      But, I would like to see your physics and math to show this invalidates c14 dating.

      January 25, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • The Truth

      "You think carbon dating is the only method of establishing absolute dates there is??" They believe whatever the God apologist tell them and regurgitate it like bird feeding their young regardless of how idiotic it makes them sound. They cannot research on their own and only listen to what the preacher and Fox news is trying to tell them which is essentially "God is real, question and test him at your own peril, we are Gods servants so just listen to us and do what we do and you will get great rewards, cross us and you will receive ultimate punishment. Any evidence to the contrary is a lie or wrong or faked by Satan."

      January 25, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • Deb

      The Truth, print the scriptures where God told us how old the world is. I know you atheists love to make stuff up and rewrite scriptures. This should be a snap for the likes of you.

      January 25, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • Don Piano

      No Deb

      God never said anything

      January 25, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • Deb

      Don Piano, how would you know? You don't listen to anyone if it's not about you ... you, did I mention, you?

      January 25, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • Don Piano

      Shhhhh, crazy lady. Shhhhh.

      January 25, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • The Truth

      "print the scriptures where God told us how old the world is"

      I have read the bible Deb, many times, and I know the lineage Moses claims connects the Israelites and Abraham all the way back to Adam and I have heard the Christian excuses for why the ages and lineage don't match up to what we actually know about humans and our planets history. I have heard the "Oh, well that lineage wasn't direct as in father to son but could have been grandfather or great-grandfather to son adding thousand of more years and generations to the supposedly "divinely" inspired list and I say bullshlt. You come up with every excuse to fill in the blanks or white wash the errors all because you like the way the book makes you feel. You like the way it tells you as the reader that you can earn great rewards if you just obey and really you don't even have to obey, just keep asking for forgiveness of the guy who died for your sins, so might as well get his moneys worth right Christians? You claim such righteousness and yet if just the Christians themselves stopped taking advantage of the abortion laws in America abortions would be down by nearly 70%. Instead you just constantly play the victim and blame everything else for your problems never taking responsibility for your own actions. You are the child who will never grow up because your parent keep's doing your laundry and paying your bill's. Well the rest of us are sick and tired of your whiny bull shlt. Your faith has been judged and found wanting.

      January 26, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.