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January 28th, 2013
01:36 AM ET

Lawyers for Catholic hospital argue that a fetus is not a person

By Ben Brumfield and Kyung Lah, CNN

Canon City, Colorado (CNN) - Life begins at conception, according to the Catholic Church, but in a wrongful death suit in Colorado, a Catholic health care company has argued just the opposite.

A fetus is not legally a person until it is born, the hospital's lawyers have claimed in its defense. And now it may be up to the state's Supreme Court to decide.

FULL STORY
- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Catholic Church • Faith & Health

soundoff (240 Responses)
  1. the AnViL

    as glaring examples of cognitive dissonance flood the cnn belief blog, comedy ensues....

    January 28, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • sam

      Get out your hipwaders; it's going to get deep.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I don't see any real strong pro-choice advocates claiming this case had merit, do you? It makes a nice club to bash Catholics with though, I'll admit that.

      January 28, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • derp

      "I don't see any real strong pro-choice advocates claiming this case had merit, do you?"

      Of course not moron, we aren't the ones who claim that an embryo is a person.

      " It makes a nice club to bash Catholics with though, I'll admit that"

      Nobody has to bash catholics. You cathtards make yourselves look bad enough that we don't have to.

      Are you saying that the case has no merit?

      Or are you saying that the church is responsible for the two dead people who were not yet born?

      January 28, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
  2. Chuckles

    I don't necessarily see the hypocrisy.

    It would be one thing if the church decided to change their mission statement or just made a public announcement, but the case is a pure legality issue and in CO the law is clear that life does not begin at conception.

    One could argue, I guess, that the hospital shouldn't use the defense based on their own personal ethics but I see it as if someone is trying to fire a gun at you and there's a shield next to you to defend yourself, do you not use the shield simply because it's your enemy's?

    I find it a little laughable that the catholic hospital finds itself in this situation but when it comes down to it, from the hospitals POV it's either A) use this defense, win the case and apologize to the hurt parties or B)lose the case, pay a lot of money and not be able to help future patients because of a strain on cash.

    January 28, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • ME II

      Not that I disagree, but if the enemy's shield is a human shield, then yes generally you don't use it.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @ME II

      Haha well I agree that using a person as a shield is wrong, but in this case, the shield is a piece of paper. Whether the hospital likes it or not, they have legal recourse to defend themselves, I think they should

      January 28, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Observer

      kirk1,

      The Bible NEVER mentioned abortion. Read it sometime.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • kirk1

      oh please there you go again spouting off your iq. wow what a brain you have, flush it down the toilet w/ the rest of your crap.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
  3. gary

    IT....IS... H Y P O C R I S Y ! Plain and simple.

    January 28, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      If it is, shouldn't your issue be with the judge and the interpretation of the law from the bench? You act as if the hospital lawyers pulled a fast one when all they did was use existing U.S. law to argue on behalf of their client.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Bill Deacon: you also seem to have a mental block preventing you from understanding that catholic hospitals have directives opposing specific health measures, based on nothing more than their retarded theological ideals.

      it is hypocrisy.

      no "if" to it, dummy.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Observer

      Bill Deacon,

      Skip the HYPOCRISY. How many Christians on here IGNORE the laws and say that abortion is murder?

      Ooops.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • kirk1

      OCTOBER 5 Today my life began. My parents do not know it yet, but it is I already. And I am to be a girl. I shall have blond hair and blue eyes. Just about everything is settled though, even the fact that I shall love flowers. OCTOBER 19: Some say that I am not a real person yet, that only my mother exists. But I am a real person, just as a small crumb of bread is yet truly bread. My mother is. And I am. OCTOBER 23: My mouth is just beginning to open now. Just think, in a year or so I shall be laughing and later talking. I know what my first word will be: MAMA.OCTOBER 25: My heart began to beat today all by itself. From now on it shall gently beat for the rest of my life without ever stopping to rest! And after many years it will tire. It will stop, and then I shall die.NOVEMBER 2:I am growing a bit every day. My arms and legs are beginning to take shape. But I have to wait a long time yet before those little legs will raise me to my mother’s arms, before these little arms will be able to gather flowers and embrace my father. NOVEMBER 12: Tiny fingers are beginning to form on my hands. Funny how small they are! I’ll be able to stroke my mother’s hair with them. NOVEMBER 20: It wasn’t until today that the doctor told mom that I am living here under her heart. Oh, how happy she must be! Are you happy, mom? NOVEMBER 25: My mom and dad are probably thinking about a name for me. But they don’t even know that I am a little girl. I want to be called Kathy. I am getting so big already. DECEMBER 10: My hair is growing. It is smooth and bright and shiny. I wonder what kind of hair mom has? DECEMBER 13:I am just about able to see. It is dark around me. When mom brings me into the world it will be full of sunshine and flowers. But what I want more than anything is to see my mom. How do you look, mom? DECEMBER 24: I wonder if mom hears the whispering of my heart? Some children come into the world a little sick. But my heart is strong and healthy. It beats so evenly: tup-tup, tup-tup. You’ll have a healthy little daughter, mom!
      DECEMBER 28: Today my mother killed me.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • sam

      I love how they're just following the law – and it's ok in this case. But following the law when it's about contraceptives or abortion? Then there's screaming and yelling about religious liberty. "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE LAW SAYS, LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION!!!!11!!"

      January 28, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • oh please

      kirk...you're an idiot.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • kirk1

      (Psalm 139:16) 16 Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, And in your book all its parts were down in writing, As regards the days when they were formed And there was not yet one among them.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      It is absolute hypocrisy. They can't pick and choose when they wish to follow the law of the land over when they follow the law of their imaginary friend, it doesn't work both ways.
      Sadly it doesn't look like he'll win due to state law being followed by the hospital but they are clearly in the wrong for how they handled the situation regardless....an infant born at 20-24 weeks stands a very high chance of survival outside the mother's body-these two were 28 weeks gestation and stood a chance.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      kirk1: What do you think spewing a buybull verse proves?

      January 28, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • kirk1

      @ohpleas, if i am an idiot for standing up for what i think is right, fine. what happened to freedom of speech, just the fact you can call someone an idiot allows you to say something you believe even though sounding like a child that has to resort to calling names. if you dont like what other people say, make a statement, express you thoughts, oh well jus like the rest of hopeless extremist that think that their way is the only way, the rest of the world are idiots.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • ME II

      "My frame was not hidden from you
      when I was made in the secret place,
      when I was woven together in the depths of the earth."
      (psalm 139:15)

      ... wait, "depths of the earth" what?

      January 28, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • kirk1

      truthprevails, in your case truth fails. i thought this was a blog, maybe you could go to an atheists blog, oh wait that isnt poss because there is no blog :-) jus kidding. lighten up.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Observer

      kirk1,

      Since the Bible never mentioned abortion, you really should read it.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • oh please

      kirk, I take it back.

      You're actually a giant flaming triple decker crap sandwich of an idiot.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • kirk1

      oh please there you go again spouting off your iq. wow what a brain you have, flush it down the toilet w/ the rest of your crap.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • kirk1

      Lawyers for Catholic hospital argue that a fetus is not a person, so says the article. i think they were talking about ohplease

      January 28, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • oh please

      At least I'm functionally literate, unlike yourself, and smart enough to find the reply link the first time. How many places did you want to post your idiot response?

      January 28, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • kirk1

      3 times for emphasis. oh please there you go again spouting off your iq. wow what a brain you have, flush it down the toilet w/ the rest of your crap.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Don Piano

      Wow kirk1, you are a real comedian.

      ps: I think that 'diary of a housecat' email-forward thing that's been out for a long time is a lot better than your 'diary of an aborted clump of cells that felt nothing'.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • oh please

      kirk think he's an internet tough guy.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • kirk1

      I really should have told you that the night before I got here, OCTOBER 4, my mother was viciously raped. I would not want to be a reminder for her of that awful night, so really it would have been better if she had a morning after pill – it would have made things easier all the way around for everyone.

      January 28, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
  4. Poltergeist

    It seems Athiest have some sort mental block in their head that's keeping from understanding that a hospital is not a church just because the word catholic is written on the side. This yet another childish outburst from the Athiest community with their usual ability to glom on to something and make it into more than what it is. No a hospital shouldn't damage a communities health service for such a reason. Catholic hospitals care for more than just Catholics.

    The second thing that seems to be bouncing off of thick heads is this is not the catholic churches money, it's
    the hospitals money. The Roman Catholic Church neither gains or loses a dime regardless
    of what the hospital did. The people who'd lose are the patients who depend on the hospital. Freethinkers they call themselves... smh 

    January 28, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      Duplicate from bottom

      January 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Poltergeist. How does that compare with their position on contraceptives and ACA?

      January 28, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • gary

      oh – why don't you sing us 'a house is not a home', scumbag.

      That name on the side means a lot. You don't see people anxious to keep associating with the name Armstrong, now do you?

      January 28, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • the AnViL

      well you seem to have a mental block preventing you from understanding that catholic hospitals have directives opposing specific health measures, based on nothing more than their theological ideals.

      yes, princess.... there is hypocrisy.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • sam

      This is seriously hilarious. Best defense is a ludicrous offense, huh?

      January 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
  5. the AnViL

    ROTFLMAO

    January 28, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
  6. tallulah13

    Thousands of comments on an article about an atheist mother, yet only double digits on a story about the hypocrisy of the catholic church? Ya ever notice that the christians are silent every time one of their own is shown to be completely in the wrong?

    January 28, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • Damocles

      Yes.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • kirk1

      most so called christians are the ones that make a bad name for those who are trying to do what is right. jus because you call yourself a christian doesnt make you one.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Observer

      tallulah13,

      Excellent point. It's the same way when Christian hypocrites go crazy about a story on the s3x habits of gays and completely ignore the stories on adultery and divorce.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      You all understand don't you that it was a U.S. District court that found the case had no merit?

      January 28, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • gary

      Similarly, one might say the jury is still out on Lance Armstrong. But shining the light on such hypocrisy is very telling in and of itself.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • sam

      @ Bill – how very convenient for the hospital. I guess they agree in this case, since they're not arguing it.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      Be king of the mole hill if you'd like.

      January 28, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
  7. hypatia

    ahhh . so it's only a person when legal damages are involved...

    January 28, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
  8. Russ

    Barack Obama:

    “They had their entire lives ahead of them… birthdays, graduations, weddings… kids of their own…

    This is our first task: caring for our children. If we don’t get that right, we don’t get anything right. That’s how as a society we will be judged. And by that measure, can we honestly say that we are doing enough to keep our children – all of them – safe from harm? I’ve been reflecting on this the last few days. If we are honest with ourselves, the answer is ‘no’…

    These tragedies must end. We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. But that can’t be an excuse for inaction. If there’s even one step we can take to save another child, surely we have an obligation to try…

    Are we really prepared to say that we are powerless in the face of such carnage? That the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that the violence visited upon our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?”

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opl0jnKbn5Y&w=640&h=390]

    January 28, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Russ, are you unaware that a fetus is not the same as a 5-year-old child?

      January 28, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Russ

      @ TomTom: slaves were once regarded as less than human, too.
      Am I to take it that you are a fan of the three-fifths compromise? same logic as yours.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Wrong, Russ. Slaves were not considered less than human. Zealots like you always try to pretend that is what the 3/5 compromise said. Slaves were COUNTED as 3/5th of a person for the purpose of voting issues.

      Nice try.

      Fail.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      As I said to Chard, unless you can find a way to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term when she doesn't wish to do so without infringing on her rights, Until then, you're out of luck.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Russ

      @ TomTom:
      a) so you ARE defending the 3/5th compromise? wow.
      so you think being "counted" as only 3/5ths doesn't detract from being treated as a human being?
      you can't have it both ways: either we NEEDED the Emancipation Proclamation or we didn't. By your logic, we didn't.

      b) over 500,000 unborn women have their lives taken every year in the US.
      they are just as much female as you are. if "women's rights" is the battle cry...

      January 28, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Jane

      @RUSS

      Get back to me when you have a Uterus. Until then, STFU. It's none of your business.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Jane: should Lincoln have shut up since he was not black?
      should Wilberforce have left "well enough alone" since he was not a slave?

      read again Obama's OWN words above...
      by your logic, should he "shut up" because he's not a child?

      historically speaking, oppression most often ENDS when people begin to take up the concerns of those UNLIKE themselves.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • sam

      Too many humans as it is. The only reason religious folks give a rat's ass about the unborn is because they were always encouraged to have as many kids as possible, to swell church numbers. Most idiots running around yelling about the unborn stop giving a crap the moment they ARE born.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • sam

      ps – I agree with 'Jane'. Worry about your own family, and stay out of what honestly doesn't concern you.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Russ, your opinion as a male may be equally valid intellectually, but it's like someone from China commenting on Internal US politics. Certainly they may have good points, and may even have the answer, but 1) the odds an "outsider" understands as well as an educated "insider" are slim (though not impossible) and 2) the effect of an outsider speaking on such internal issues is mostly to pi.ss people off. This is because 3) speaking as an outsider implies that the insiders (Americans, women...whatever) are too stupid to think and argue for themselves.

      There are more women than men in the world, and a heck of a lot of them are on each side of the abortion argument. Why on earth would any man think getting involved in this particular issue (on either side) was useful to the cause. It just reeks of arrogance and does no bodies cause any good. But hey, if you want to be counterproductive to you own goals, go for it.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Russ, you must be taking lessons from Chard on how to be dishonest. The 3/5 compromise was a tool that allowed states with large numbers of slave-owners to count slaves as part of the population in order to garner more representation. It has no bearing on the issue of abortion. But you knew that already. You just don't have any other arguments and so you're desperately using one you got from some anti-choice site.

      Women have rights. They have the right to their own bodies. They are not required to give up those rights when they get pregnant, much as you and the Chard would like them to. That's all there is to it.

      Too bad for you.

      January 29, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Here, stupid, educate yourself:The Three-Fifths Compromise was a compromise between Southern and Northern states reached during the Philadelphia convention of 1787 in which three-fifths of the enumerated population of slaves would be counted for representation purposes regarding both the distribution of taxes and the apportionment of the members of the United States House of Representatives. It was proposed by delegates James Wilson and Roger Sherman.
      Delegates opposed to slavery generally wished to count only the free inhabitants of each state. Delegates supportive of slavery, on the other hand, generally wanted to count slaves in their actual numbers. Since slaves themselves could not vote, slaveholders would thus have the benefit of increased representation in the House and the Electoral College. The final compromise of counting "all other persons" as only three-fifths of their actual numbers reduced the power of the slave states relative to the original southern proposals, but increased it over the northern position.

      January 29, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • Russ

      @ saraswati:
      1) I'm an American. This is a debate on American politics. I'm not an outsider.

      2) look at history.
      Lincoln was not black, but he was an American. He was *critically* necessary for the end of slavery in America. By the same token, look at William Wilberforce. He was not black, nor a slave. And yet he spoke up as a British citizen to end slavery in the British Empire.

      3) by your rationale, only those who can speak have a voice. but a primary method of tyranny historically has been to silence all detractors so they can remain in power. democracy gives voice to the otherwise silenced. democracy welcomes an opponents' BEST argument rather than attempting to silence them categorically.

      and in this case, that's TomTom's play. it's all about silencing her opposition. she knows there are plenty of women who hold my position. it's merely an anecdotal defense. and what's more troubling is that the party who suffers most here HAS NO VOICE. how can the child say something in this case? he/she can't. and neither can a 5 month old baby. but who would defend that logic? since the baby has no voice, if the mother wants to kill it, then she can? of course not. why? because it's not a case of "it's not your child. hush." it's objectively wrong. and it's why Obama made the comments he made (which I quoted above) about Sandy Hook – where defenseless children who were unable to speak for themselves were killed.

      and that's the real issue here. TomTom wants to use her gender to bypass the reality that
      a) there are women who hold my position, too (rendering her point moot)
      b) this is primarily a discussion on objective morality, in the same way that racism, pedophilia, genocide, etc. are all objectively wrong. for example, no one would defend a Nazi who was killing Jews and said "well, you're just not a Nazi or a Jew, so you can't understand the Holocaust. this has nothing to do with you. shut up & go back to America."

      January 29, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Russ,

      "1) I'm an American. This is a debate on American politics. I'm not an outsider."

      Look back at my original comment. See the word "like"? Now think back to fifth grade English class...

      January 29, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Saraswati: similes notwithstanding... you gave an analogy (with China) but then still said directly that I'm an outsider as a male. my response (that I'm not an outsider) applied on both levels – as the rest of my points should have made clear.

      don't use grammar to attempt to dodge the primary thrust of an argument. it's a cheap side door to avoid substance. re-read my argument. i claimed that the male/female divide here is NOT the central issue. am I to assume your only objection to my 3 points was grammatical? if so, see how shallow your response appears?

      January 30, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • Super Bowl Sunday

      Someone who constructs poorly formed sentences like 'think back to 5th grade English class..' is commenting on grammar? really?

      January 30, 2013 at 11:57 am |
  9. Observer

    truth be told,

    EVERYONE is a liar at times. Your comment is as totally useless as saying the sun came up today.

    Grow up.

    January 28, 2013 at 10:48 am |
  10. Horton

    A person's a person no matter how small.

    January 28, 2013 at 9:19 am |
    • K-switch

      What do midgets have to do with this?

      January 28, 2013 at 9:21 am |
    • John not the Baptist

      In vitro fertilisation. how many people can you ftr in a petrie dish?

      January 28, 2013 at 9:25 am |
    • John not the Baptist

      fit...fat fingers.

      January 28, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • Jojo

      Yopp!!!

      January 28, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • John not the Baptist

      Fat, soft, oily fingers are better than sitting on your priests lap.

      January 28, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • sam

      Horton's been hearing Whos again.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • pee wee

      They put little people to work all over the place these days. It's a lot better for them than the days when they made the Wizard of Oz.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • Randy N

      I don't like 'em.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
  11. amy

    "truth be told", being proven wrong daily, is a great help in the cause of helping people rid their lives of religion!

    January 28, 2013 at 8:56 am |
  12. John not the Baptist

    It is always all about the money with the RCC, largest and most successful scam of all time.

    January 28, 2013 at 7:45 am |
  13. truth be told

    All atheists are liars. Use this Truth before reading any of their hate rants they think are intelligence.

    January 28, 2013 at 7:38 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      But are all liars club sandwiches? Bacon, lettuce, tomahawk with a cabinet for a ski lift.

      January 28, 2013 at 7:43 am |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      All priests are pedo...phi....les....keep your kids away unless you want their virgin booty hole opened up.

      January 28, 2013 at 8:11 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 28, 2013 at 8:23 am |
    • Pete

      "All atheists are liars"

      More lies from the xtians – 157!

      January 28, 2013 at 8:25 am |
    • an atheist

      truth be told's mom did not blow me last night.

      January 28, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • John not the Baptist

      Me is eh atheist, but I is a liar, so dat means I believes in a god, say Ra but I is lying, so say Vishnu but I is lying, so say Dionysus but I is lying, sh-it I think I is turning into a christian troll but jesus christ.........
      PS: Written so tbt could easily comprehend.

      January 28, 2013 at 10:15 am |
  14. Dave8582

    Life begins at birth. When the child takes his first breathe.

    And by the way, Jesus was an urban legend.

    Cheers!

    January 28, 2013 at 7:30 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Jesus the man almost certainly existed.

      January 28, 2013 at 7:38 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      So what? The real issue is that Jesus the Son of God almost certainly didn't. Accepting that a mere man existed is far different from believing a divine being did. One is compleltly plausible, the other is not.

      January 28, 2013 at 11:38 am |
  15. Reality

    Tis disturbing that CNN had no coverage of the Respect for Human Life in ALL its Forms march in Washington DC last Friday but is providing coverage for a small law case in Colorado. One wonders about what else the moderators of this blog and their bosses have neglected to cover. Could it be that these bosses are members of the Immoral Majority, the voting "mothers and fathers" of the 50 million aborted wo-mb babies sla-ughtered since 1973?

    January 28, 2013 at 6:41 am |
    • Reality

      Here is one rec-ommendation for them to present in their d-aily reviews:

      Eli-minating the need for a "Respect for Human Life in All Its Forms" march every Ja-nuary:

      Co-ndoms are available over the counter for less than 50 cents each. Make the Pill (type dependent on doctor’s ev-aluation) available over the counter and there will be no more debate. Pla-nned Parenth-ood can offer deep discounts for those who say they cannot afford said protection.

      Or better yet, put a pack of con-doms and a box of Pills in cereal boxes. Unfortunately, that would not ensure the condoms and/or Pills would be used. Based on Guttmacher Insti-tute data, said condoms and/or Pills are currently not being used as they should. (one million abortions/yr and 19 million cases of STDs/yr because either the daily Pill was not taken or a condom stayed in the pocket.)

      Maybe selling Pill-enriched sodas??? Hmmm?

      Condom-fitted briefs for men?? Hmmm?

      The door is open for other ideas!!!
      ...

      January 28, 2013 at 6:46 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Respect for Human Life in ALL its Form

      So when I jack off, am I committing genocide?

      January 28, 2013 at 6:46 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      The Pill definitely should be available over the counter.

      January 28, 2013 at 6:49 am |
    • Primewonk

      Point 1 – CNN DID cover tne march. It's not CNN's fault that you were't watching when they showed it.

      Point 2 – This isn't (or shouldn't be) a small case. This is a story about religious hypocrisy. The Catholic church xteaches that life begi s at conception and that all fetuses have a right to life. Yet when it will cost them money, they argue in court that a fetus isn't a person. The secular court agreed that a fetus isn't a person. So then these kind good lovi g Catholics, who were responsible for the death of this man's wife and unborn twins, turned around and sued him for their attorney fees, going so far as garnish his wages.

      Point 3 – The christian version of god, by virtue of his omnipotence and omniscience, is personally respo sible for 3 BILLION spontaneous abortions in the past 40 years. Perhaps your anger should be focused on this putz.

      January 28, 2013 at 8:21 am |
    • Reality

      Again as a h-orrid reminder, when BO said "So help me god", he did so as the blood of 50 million dead aborted babies oozed out over those bibles.

      Human male sperm and human female eggs are an-alogous to the millions of tons of inactive deuterium floating harmlessly in the ocean but combine them in a fusion reaction, they instantly become the expanding energy of the Sun found in all stars as they continuous fuse more hydrogen making the const-ituents of all human life..

      And Nature is the #1 taker of everyone's life. That gives some rationale for killing womb babies or those suffering from de-men-tia, mental disease or Al-zheimer's or anyone who might inconvenience your life???

      And we constantly battle the forces of Nature. We do not succ-umb to these forces by eliminating defenseless children or senior citizens!!!!!

      And CNN did not cover the Life March on their internet news site nor on this blog even though it was significantly more important than Stevie Prothero's ramblings or books on the dirty Jesus.

      January 28, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Spouting the statistics of the total number of aborted fetuses is a red herring. As if it implies that the population is millions of people fewer than it should be if these pregnancies were not terminated. That simply isn't true. Women who have had abortions typically go on to have exactly as many babies as they desired in the first place. The only difference being which of her 400 eggs she chooses to bring to term.
      The ultimate fate and value of any pregnancy is determined by the desire of its parents to accept the responsibility and raise children. Doing it simply out of a sense of obligation or fear of reprisal and bringing an unwanted or unplanned child into the world it just cruel.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • Akira

      Uh huh, and GWB swore on the Bible, and Clinton swore on the Bible, and Bush I swore on the Bible, and Carter and Ford swore on it...Nixon...
      Cut the disingenuous bullshit.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      In 40 years, marches and protests by those who wish to deprive women of right have failed to overturn R v W. THAT'S "reality."

      Why cover something that so ineffectual?

      January 28, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • Reality

      To the nitty gritty:

      The Life March should be called the March to End the Brutal Stupidity of Those Who Do Not Practice Safe S-ex:

      One more time:

      The reality of se-x, abortion, contraception and STD/HIV control: – from an agnostic guy who enjoys intelligent se-x-

      Note: Some words hyphenated to defeat an obvious word filter. ...

      The Brutal Effects of Stupidity:

      : The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill (8.7% actual failure rate) and male con-dom (17.4% actual failure rate) have led to the large rate of abortions and S-TDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or co-ndoms properly and/or use safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.- Failure rate statistics provided by the Gut-tmacher Inst-itute. Unfortunately they do not give the statistics for doubling up i.e. using a combination of the Pill and a condom.

      Added information before making your next move:

      from the CDC-2006

      "Se-xually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain S-TDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psy-ch-ological consequences of S-TDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs as-sociated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."

      And from:

      Consumer Reports, January, 2012

      "Yes, or-al se-x is se-x, and it can boost cancer risk-

      Here's a crucial message for teens (and all se-xually active "post-teeners": Or-al se-x carries many of the same risks as va-ginal se-x, including human papilloma virus, or HPV. And HPV may now be overtaking tobacco as the leading cause of or-al cancers in America in people under age 50.

      "Adolescents don’t think or-al se-x is something to worry about," said Bonnie Halpern-Felsher professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. "They view it as a way to have intimacy without having 's-ex.'" (It should be called the Bill Clinton Syndrome !!)

      Obviously, political leaders in both parties, Planned Parenthood, parents, the "stupid part of the USA" and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts.

      The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by "Perfect use":

      - (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
      - (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)

      Followed by:

      One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
      Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
      The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
      Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
      IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
      Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)
      Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)
      Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)

      Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

      Unfortunately, the RCC continues to keep its head in the sand when it comes to modern contraception. Of course a church whose theology and history are forever flawed, one expects it to have other major defects.

      January 28, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
  16. Mark G.

    There is nothing wrong with what they are saying. Legally they are right. That is what the courts have decided.That a fetus is not a person. Critics are confusing moral belief with the law of the land. This will be a simple decision for the state Supreme court. The hospital is only only using the legal definition because they can.

    January 28, 2013 at 3:33 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      I think the issue here is the massive hypocrisy in that the Catholic Church frequently state that life begins at conception yet we have a Catholic healthcare provider stating otherwise to suit themselves.

      January 28, 2013 at 3:38 am |
    • realbuckyball

      You're singing a new tune since the flap over Obamacare.

      January 28, 2013 at 4:20 am |
    • Primewonk

      "Critics are confusing moral belief with the law of the land."

      Sorry, but isn't this exactly what the religious nutters have been doing? Roe is the law of the land, yet fundiot nutters keep trying to impose their "moral " belief on everyone else.

      The constîtution says that all citizens are entîtled to the same civil rights, yet fundiot nutters keep trying to pass laws making gsy folks second class citizens because of their "moral" beliefs.

      January 28, 2013 at 8:35 am |
    • Poltergeist

      Well apparently you don't want them to agree. Their lawyer just respected the laws of the land. And youre complaining about that.

      Athiest over play their sympathy cards. Look, the reilgious outnumber you 5 to 1. If they were truley the hateful, evil, bigoted, intolerant, crusaders you make them out to be, you all should be dead already, or at least litigated in to true second citizenship like other minorities.

      January 28, 2013 at 9:24 am |
    • Primewonk

      Apparently Poltergeist approves of the hypocrisy of the Catholics. I wonder if their god is as proud of them as you are.

      January 28, 2013 at 10:04 am |
    • Observer

      Poltergeist,

      This hypocrisy is typical of the Bible and the majority of Christians who either pick-and-choose the sins to talk about (or ignore) or else just make up things like the Bible mentioning abortion.

      January 28, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Poltergeist

      There's nothing hypocritical about it. It seems Athiest have some sort mental block in their head that's keeping from understanding that a hospital is not a church just because the word catholic is written on the side. This yet another childish outburst from the Athiest community with their usual ability to glom on to something and make it into more than what it is. No a hospital shouldn't damage a communities health service for such a reason. Catholic hospitals care for more than just Catholics.

      The second thing that seems to be bouncing off of thick heads is this is not the catholic churches money, it's
      the hospitals money. The Roman Catholic Church neither gains or loses a dime regardless
      of what the hospital did. The people who'd lose are the patients who depend on the hospital. Freethinkers they say...

      January 28, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      There's nothing hypocritical about it. It seems Athiest have some sort mental block in their head that's keeping from understanding that a hospital is not a church just because the word catholic is written on the side. This yet another childish outburst from the Athiest community with their usual ability to glom on to something and make it into more than what it is. No a hospital shouldn't damage a communities health service for such a reason. Catholic hospitals care for more than just Catholics.

      The second thing that seems to be bouncing off of thick heads is this is not the catholic churches money, it's
      the hospitals money. The Roman Catholic Church neither gains or loses a dime regardless
      of what the hospital did. The people who'd lose are the patients who depend on the hospital. Freethinkers they call themselves smh.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Poltergeist. How does that compare with their position on contraceptives and ACA?

      January 28, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Rat Lib, I think the hypocrisy is that the pro-choice side is offended that the pro-life side would use the law as it is written.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
  17. Poltergeist

    If the hospital had taken the opposite stance the story would then be branded as a slight against women's rights.

    January 28, 2013 at 3:27 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      But they didn't so now it's being branded as highlighting their extreme hypocrisy.

      January 28, 2013 at 3:28 am |
    • Poltergeist

      While that would certainly be noble looking, sacrificing a hospitals bugdet to a lawsuit, for any reason, would be idiotic. What would be hypocritical is for that hospital to sacrifice the quality of care affecting real people to make a grand gesture or whatever you'd expect.

      January 28, 2013 at 9:05 am |
    • Akira

      They did sacrifice quality of care, hence the wrongful death lawsuit.

      January 28, 2013 at 9:15 am |
    • Primewonk

      They chose money over their belief that life begins at conception, and a fetus is a person.

      And then they had the gall to garnish this guys wages to pay for their attorneys.

      January 28, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • tallulah13

      Hypocrisy is not a virtue, Poltergeist, and the catholic church can't have it both ways. Either they must admit culpability for not trying to deliver the infants, or they must confess that birth control is not the sin claim it to be. Attempting to defend both positions simply exposes the corrupt underbelly of a church that has long since become nothing more than a big business that profits from the exploitation of human lives.

      January 28, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • Poltergeist

      It seems Athiest have some sort mental block in their head that's keeping from understanding that a hospital is not a church just because the word catholic is written on the side. This yet another childish outburst from the Athiest community with their usual ability to glom on to something and make it into more than what it is. No a hospital shouldn't damage a communities health service for such a reason. Catholic hospitals care for more than just Catholics.

      The second thing that seems to be bouncing off of thick heads is this is not the catholic churches money, it's
      the hospitals money. The Roman Catholic Church neither gains or loses a dime regardless
      of what the hospital did. The people who'd lose are the patients who depend on the hospital. Freethinkers they call themselves...

      January 28, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Poltergeist. How does that compare with their position on contraceptives and ACA?

      January 28, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      If you come to the hospital trying to get contraceptives or an a abortion it won't happen. Because they are required not too by their sponsors, the catholic church. The hospital isnt required to try to over turn Roe V Wade on every lawsuit involving pregnancy however.

      January 28, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • gary

      It seems the RCC has some kind of mental block keeping it from realizing how much immediate death and disease could be prevented by not officially taking a stance against the use of contraception. Oh, and that stance is based on folklore.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Poltergeist. That's hypocrisy. They fight one because it contradicts their beliefs they take the opposite position when their vast wealth is at risk.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      The hospital is not fighting abortion Satan.

      January 28, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
  18. realbuckyball

    Maybe popey dopey could Tweet about it ?

    January 28, 2013 at 2:17 am |
  19. realbuckyball

    hyp·o·crite
    /ˈhipəˌkrit/
    Noun
    A person who indulges in hypocrisy.
    synonyms
    dissembler – pharisee
    And where are all the papists now that were complaining their $$ was going for contraception, now that their $$ is paying these lawyers ?
    Liars all. Such a farce.

    January 28, 2013 at 2:15 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      It's not just papists who complain about that.

      January 28, 2013 at 2:19 am |
  20. Rational Libertarian

    I hope they tell the d.ouches in the Vatican.

    January 28, 2013 at 2:05 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.