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January 31st, 2013
04:21 AM ET

Unholy details of a religious cult

CNN's Brooke Baldwin talks to Rafael Romo about a religious cult whose members were believed to be victims of sex slavery.

Watch CNN Newsroom weekdays 9am to 3pm ET and weekends. For the latest from the CNN Newsroom click here.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Cults • Mexico • TV-CNN Newsroom

soundoff (168 Responses)
  1. Akira

    Yeah, thanks for making the page turn, Dar, I can't post on the thread I was on.

    Anyway...
    Live4Him Mary:
    I just saw you on This Just In, the Israel expansion blog.

    Can you tell me why these two posts have your same IP addy?

    Mary
    Or You could say that the UN is the "head of the beast" @ saywhat... US will turn on Israel in our life time @ chrissy

    January 31, 2013 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse | Reply

    Mary
    Very Sad that Cnn has let the "jackers" remain while the regulars have drifted away more and more each day.
    Obviously not me @ 9:20

    January 31, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse | Reply

    I realize the liar's defense is to a) deny, deny, deny, and
    b) demand an apology for calling you out on it.

    January 31, 2013 at 9:56 pm |
  2. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    They speak of their hindu soul, ignorant desire, and claim it to be from truth absolute GOD, one has to be a hindu brain less to follow hindu pundits, filthy goons to be their victim. Use your brain, good lord truth absolute blessed with, and make a choice in truth absolute to be free of hinduism, criminality of hindus, criminals.

    January 31, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
    • Why Camel Jockeys Can't Win in Coca-Cola AD?

      Talk about Super Bowl Coca Cola AD idiot, muslim looser

      January 31, 2013 at 9:56 pm |
  3. Brampt

    "...the suspect controls peoples finances and wills" .Interestingly the majority of the churches that say there Christians use similar tactics to control people finances! Im wondering if this guy got the idea from all these megachurches??!!

    January 31, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
  4. Atheism is Healthy for Everyone - Kids Too!

    Different kinds of fundamentalist Christians now as much as ever are arguing with each other with as much sense and rationality as a flock of chickens. They can't support their beliefs by any reasonable means, yet they deem themselves fit to judge others from those beliefs or attempt to put others in the midst of their religious infighting. Their beliefs have a very weak foundation and are not consistent, ergo the over 30,000 different denominations.

    Thomas Jefferson

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    John Adams

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    James Madison

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    Thomas Paine

    I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    January 31, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
  5. Iguman

    I just got paid $6784 working on my laptop using these simple steps leaked on this web page. Make up to $85 per hour doing simple tasks that are so easy to do that you won't forgive yourself if you don't check it out! Payments are paid every Friday! Here is what I've been doing Rich45.ℂOM

    January 31, 2013 at 8:36 pm |
  6. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    Why camel jockeys in Super Bowl XLVII Coca-Cola ad can't win?

    January 31, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
  7. truth be told

    All so called atheists are liars, in fact not only that but they actually hate the Truth and free speech and will go out of their way to suppress it. Think how much better this world could be without atheists. As an extreme minority atheists have tortured and murdered more people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries. Atheism is the enemy of Truth and freedom.

    January 31, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      People who unnecessarily capitalize "truth" or "fact" have little regard for either.

      January 31, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your assertions regarding atheism are unfounded. There is no data indicating that populations under ruthless dictators of past regimes have committed atrocities in the name of atheism. There is data indicating that segments of populations under different religions have committed atrocities in the name of their respective religions. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 31, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • sam

      Someone's making their regular rounds, I see....

      January 31, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • truth be told

      I post a Truth, so called atheists slither out from under some garbage and post proof of what I said in the first place.

      January 31, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
    • TBT is a liar

      You posted bullshit, turd be troll. Shut the fuck up, you vicious cunt!

      January 31, 2013 at 8:38 pm |
    • truth be told

      No, it is the Truth and everyone on earth knows it accept the so called atheist. Every time they state their opinions they make fools of themselves, pathetic really, you know what I mean.

      January 31, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      tbt aka Natural Born Liar

      January 31, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
  8. Sam Yaza

    Ohh..... Christians do you ever learn

    January 31, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • LC

      Just because someone calls themselves a Christian does not mean they are one. Our ultimate commands from Christ were to 1) Love God and 2) Love His people.....if you see a "Christian" not doing that. You have every right to tell them to go study Matthew 22:37-39, let them know that they are being hypocritical and keep it moving. But don't think this is how all Christians live or that this is what our faith teaches. It's similar to how we don't want to think that Islam teaches people to be like Osama bin Laden. He's one (of many) bad examples of what that faith is really about. Just like these people are a bad example of what Christianity is about...unfortunately, this, much like Osama bin Laden, is what makes in the news most times when we discuss Christianity.

      February 1, 2013 at 10:06 am |
  9. The Truth

    There is nothing "Holy" about any religion, though all of them are "holey" when it comes to veracity of their doctrine.

    January 31, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
  10. rabidatheist

    Oh I thought they meant that religious cult centered at the Vatican. I hear they also have also have a large number of s e x victims to answer for.

    January 31, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
  11. Live4Him

    @truth B truth : a theocracy caused the Dark Ages. Google Galiloe for historic details

    It's really sad what passes for knowledge in today's society. The so-called Dark Ages is the period when a greatest increase in the percentage of educated people. Today's atheist thinks that Galileo was jailed for claiming the earth was not flat. He was never jailed. Instead, he was placed under house arrest for mocking the Pope of his day. For a REAL education, read the book "Galileo's Daughter" – which contains correspondence between his daughter and him. These will expose the real facts, rather than today's popular opinions.

    January 31, 2013 at 11:50 am |
    • truth B truth

      More people were educated – Yes!
      However, the church was in control of what they learned.
      And i see a difference between house arrest and arrest, but that only supports my point.

      January 31, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Lie4him
      The dark ages were caused by a cataclysmic event, which changed even the weather in most of europe. Before the event England was a mor tropical zone, then became more ttemperate, like it is today.

      The cataclysm caused all of the religious people to react as if they were under attack by god, that they did something wrong.

      What they did wrong is believe religious rhetoric, and instead of moving forward quickly, allowed religious belief to rule their actions.

      Similar to the plague in europe. Religious people went around killing cats, who the falsely believed were the devils familiars. In killing the cats, they reduced the ability to fend off the actual problem that was the fleas carried by rats, that carried the plague.
      No telling how many suffered and died (just in this instance) from religious people jumping to ridiculous conclusions, and making things far worse than they should be.

      January 31, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      I agree it is sad what passes for knowledge these days. Like when people say they "know god helped them", or "know god exists", or "the bible is historically verified". Very sad indeed.

      January 31, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • truth B truth

      Science during the Middle Ages was essentially a theoretical subject and a branch of philosophy, hence the usual term of natural philosophy. Although Roger Bacon, Albert the Great and Nicole Oresme praise the concept of experience, controlled observation, experimentation and technological work were not matters the academic natural philosopher involved himself in. They did not like to get their hands dirty and instead used thought experiments to analyse situations while apparently never seeking to repeat the process in the real world.
      I got this here:
      http://jameshannam.com/medievalscience.htm

      January 31, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      TBT
      Lie4him comment was about the dark ages, not the middle ages.
      Similar results for what passed for science though.

      January 31, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @L4H

      what does Galileo have to do with the 'dark ages'?

      Galileo is unmistakably part of the Italian Renaissance – which happened after the 'dark' ages (no matter whether you use the term 'dark ages' to refer to all, or the beginning of the medieval period).

      January 31, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      "Today's atheist thinks that Galileo was jailed for claiming the earth was not flat. He was never jailed. Instead, he was placed under house arrest for mocking the Pope of his day."
      While Galileo's arrest was a complex affair, to say that he was arrested simply for "mocking the Pope" is a gross oversimplification. To imply that he was not persecuted, if not prosecuted, for his work on heliocentrism is not correct. As I understand it, he would not have been in a position to mock the Pope, if he hadn't felt it necessary to discuss the concept as a mere Dialogue instead of scientific fact.

      January 31, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @L4H,

      Galileo may only have been held under house arrest, but Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for his 'heresy' only ten years before Galileo published Sidereus Nuncius.

      January 31, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • rabidatheist

      @ Live4Him Find me a single atheist that believes, "Today's atheist thinks that Galileo was jailed for claiming the earth was not flat". It was for going against the churches dogma that the earth was the center of the universe. If you are going to spout nonsene, at least make is somewhat historically accurate.

      January 31, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @ME II : While Galileo's arrest was a complex affair, to say that he was arrested simply for "mocking the Pope" is a gross oversimplification.

      Actually, it is highly accurate. He published his finding in a fictional book. When it first became known to the Pope, it didn't cause ANY stir. Yes, it was known to be a helio- vs. geocentric book, but again, it did not cause any problems. This fictional book was about a discussion between two people on the helio- vs. geocentric issue challenging people of that day. The Pope's view was a geocentric universe, but that also didn't cause any problems. It wasn't until one of the Pope's close advisers told him the name of the character advocating a geocentric universe. This close "adviser" simply wanted to cause strife – and pointed out the similarities between the geocentric advocate and the Pope's position.

      The name of this character was : Simpleton.

      @ME II : As I understand it, he would not have been in a position to mock the Pope, if he hadn't felt it necessary to discuss the concept as a mere Dialogue instead of scientific fact.

      Any time someone bucks the popular belief, it is always a touchy issue. Just look at today – unless you support evolution you don't get published in the "respectable" journals. The whole point of science is to follow the evidence – but we are seeing the same things in today's society that Galileo saw in his day – censorship. An recent example (and less polarizing) is the issue of polywater in the 70's.

      January 31, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      You need to change your name to "Lie4Him". That's all you seem to be doing. Your little Expelled conspiracy theory "Oh the scientists just want to keep the status quo" idiocy has absolutely no basis, and you have never been able to provide anything to back up any assertion you've made.

      January 31, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Giggity

      "Polywater was a hypothetical polymerized form of water that was the subject of much scientific controversy during the late 1960s." – Wiki

      There is no censorship regarding this! It was debunked! Get a clue.

      January 31, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @hawaiiguest : You need to change your name to "Lie4Him".

      Yep, you've almost lost the abilty to engage in civil discourse. If you REALLY believed what you claim, you wouldn't have any problems being civil.

      @hawaiiguest : you have never been able to provide anything to back up any assertion you've made.

      You obviously don't know about the polywater issue. Goggle it. But, here's the short version of the story. A scientist published a new discovery that he called polywater. It was created in a labratory setting and the findings were that if it got loose in the wild, it would be highly dangerous. More scientists published additional articles, almost universally supporting his original findings. A few were published from the opposing position. Most of the articles from the opposing side were refused publicaton in the best known scientific journals. This went on for about a decade. Some of the most damaging to the original findings claimed that polywater did not actually exist – i.e. the findings were based upon a poor scientific process. After ten years, the polywater issue was quitely dropped in the scientific community – it was all based upon mishandle scientific experiments.

      But, don't take my word for it. Goggle it.

      January 31, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Giggity : There is no censorship regarding this! It was debunked! Get a clue

      Yes, it was debunked AFTER a decade had passed and the opponents were able to get their views published in lesser known journals. – i.e. censorship of the opposing view.

      January 31, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      Technically, it was for "vehemently suspected of heresy"

      " We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the above-mentioned Galileo, because of the things deduced in the trial and confessed by you as above, have rendered yourself according to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely of having held and believed a doctine which is false and contrary to the divine and Holy Scripture: that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west, and the earth moves and is not the center of the world, and that one may hold and defend as probable an opinion after it has been declared and defined contrary to Holy Scripture."
      ( http://web.archive.org/web/20070930013053/http://astro.wcupa.edu/mgagne/ess362/resources/finocchiaro.html#sentence)

      January 31, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Lie4him
      I can't believe you would bring up such a ridiculous topic. Polywater was nothing more than a failed series of experiments. Failed due to the sloppy methods of the person performing the experiments. I could not be duplicated ( which is necessary in science) and was found to be baseless.

      Why do you keep bringing up failed experiments and flwed science to try to bolster your belief in the extremely improbable tiniest slight of a possiblity that your version of a god exists.
      Science is logic and reason. God is imaginary, and it is irrational and unreasonable to beleieve, which is why you must abandon logic and reason and replace it with "faith"

      January 31, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      And you have yet to actually address the point I made in my post, which is pretty much you in a nutshell. How about you stop being a cowardly little tool and actually engage in honest discourse.

      January 31, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Richard Cranium : Polywater was nothing more than a failed series of experiments. Failed due to the sloppy methods of the person performing the experiments.

      Why did it take so long to expose his sloppiness? Why did so many scientists validate his findings?

      January 31, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Giggity

      Bullshit. It was a Russian theory that didn't capture the attention of United States scientists until the early 70's...they debunked it. It wasn't censored, it was debunked, and using this as an exqmple of scoientific censorship is intellectual dishonest. Freaking Star Trek used it as a plot line in the 60's...this is how outrageous a hypothesis it was. Get a clue.

      Try to find something actually valid that was censored, and you may have a point. Otherwise....BZZT! Loser.

      January 31, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @ME II : Technically, it was for "vehemently suspected of heresy"

      And what was the heresy? The RCC has a view of the infallibility of the Pope. Just for clarification, I don't accept this view. So, Galileo was mocking the Pope's 'infallible' view on geocentrism.

      January 31, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Lie4him
      Several reasons
      it is 1960's Soviet Union. You are a scientist trying to work on experiment for water (heavy water was being studied very closely at this time). The original iintent was to find special properties in water, like heavy water.
      " You need to produce comrade, the Americans are putting a lot of pressure on you and you need to produce. "
      "But sir, The lab I have is not a clean environment, I need more time and materials to do my research."
      "You have been given all you need to produce results, we have no more funds available for you."
      "let me give you my results....( the polywater)

      Remember this was the 1960's...first off the guy was in the Soviet union, he was not allowed to talk with ajust anyone, secondly, many that saw his work, knew it was a red herring, without merit. Finally some scientists looked into it and found it was incorrect. Put yourself in the time, the place and the environment at that time, and it is amazing that it only took 10 years.

      Remember , it took 1850 years to show creation to be false, and evolution is real.

      January 31, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      Talk about another failure.

      1) It did not take 10 years to debunk. The polywater thing didn't really make it out of the Soviet until 1966, and was thoroughly debunked worldwide in 1973. The results were somewhat duplicated in 1968-1969, yet in 1970 there were a few people that wondered about a few things. Here's the big difference, they brought evidence, and repeatable tests that were confirmed over the next 2 years that thoroughly debunked the idea. No where did I see any evidence of "censorship" of those who didn't accept polywater like you seem to be claiming.
      2) In terms of people verifying the findings, there was a flaw in the methodology that sometimes exposed the water to a contaminate that directly caused the results.

      January 31, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • TANK!!!!!

      Wow. You've sunk to conspiracy theories now? See how religious thinking is rotting your mind?

      January 31, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • Akira

      TANK!!!:
      You have noooo idea about some of the conspiracy theories this person believes...take a gander sometime at This Just In sometime when their in their downward cycle...

      January 31, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • Akira

      *they're in their

      January 31, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him
      "And what was the heresy? "

      As the second half of the quote described, the heresy was:
      "...that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west, and the earth moves and is not the center of the world, and that one may hold and defend as probable an opinion after it has been declared and defined contrary to Holy Scripture."

      "The RCC has a view of the infallibility of the Pope. .... So, Galileo was mocking the Pope's 'infallible' view on geocentrism."
      First, I doubt that the Pope, or any Pope, has invoked "infallibility" on geocentrism, since infallibility usually only applies to doctrine and has to be invoked by a Pope.
      Second, if subscribing to heliocentrism is mocking the Pope's infallibility then wouldn't that mean that any 'heresy' would be "mocking" the Pope?

      Another section of the sentence of Galileo:
      " Whereas you, Galileo, ... were denounced to this Holy Office in 1615 for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the sun is the center of the world and motionless and the earth moves even with diurnal motion;"

      January 31, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @hawaiiguest : It did not take 10 years to debunk. The polywater thing didn't really make it out of the Soviet until 1966, and was thoroughly debunked worldwide in 1973.

      Lets look at the Wiki article.

      By the 1970s, polywater was well known in the general population.[6 Christian, P. A.; Berka, L. H. (June 1973).] ...This took a few years longer in the Soviet Union, where scientists still clung to the idea.

      So, in 1973 it was well known among the general population. A few years later, would be 1975 or 1976. So, from 1966 tp 1975 is the 10 years that I mentioned.

      @hawaiiguest : No where did I see any evidence of "censorship" of those who didn't accept polywater

      How many articles were published supporting the dangers of polywater and how many were published dismissing polywater?

      The dispute has been well chronicled by Felix Franks, a senior research fellow at Cambridge University, in his book appropriately entitled Polywater. It was played out largely on the pages of Science and Nature. Most of the overabundant articles in these two journals presented information on the existence and properties of polywater, extolling its virtues, with only a few challenging or disclaiming the whole thing. These "quickie" publications were in some combination incomplete, incorrect, inaccurate, overinterpreted, and hastely written. The science news reporting community, by and large, too the articles and associated comments as news releases as fact and broadcast the story widely to the general public.
      The Great Dinosaur Extinction Controversy, Officer and Page, pg 93

      January 31, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • ProudAtheist

      @LiveforHim: Galileo WAS arrested by the Roman Catholic Church, and it was because he was making scientific discoveries which led to truth, and which were a threat to the church's affluency. He was released from jail, but the church put him on house arrest for the rest of his entire life.

      This is why religion is dangerous and a poison to society. Religion has attempted to suppress truth and science for centuries, but it would appear that religion is merely hanging on by a thread today.

      It's only a matter of time before science rules and religion is nothing more than a dark period of humankind's history. Hell, even the Vatican have priests who are scientists, so even the ones who once suppressed science are embracing it now.

      January 31, 2013 at 8:29 pm |
    • Live4Him

      Akira : You have noooo idea about some of the conspiracy theories this person believes

      Well, I know that my name isn't Mary, as you once believed! :)

      January 31, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
    • Akira

      Mary, still denying who you are?
      I traced your ip's: you're Mary Hecht.
      IP's don't lie, but you do.
      Shall I publish them, again?
      The only thing worse than a liar is one who proselytizes while lying.
      Now, I said before that I don't particularly care if you proselytize, but when you lie about your background, I'm going to call you out on it.
      Carry on; you're entertaining as all hell.

      January 31, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @ProudAtheist : Galileo WAS arrested by the Roman Catholic Church, and it was because he was making scientific discoveries which led to truth

      Here's a book that is based upon the actual letters between Galileo and his daughter. It supports the posit that I've presented.

      Exerpts from : Galileo's Daughter, Dava Sobel

      On June 16 [1629] Galileo found out that the Dialogue had passed the reviewer's inspection. pg 195

      When Galileo's book arrived in Rome in the summer of 1632, [Pope] Urban could take no time to read it. Anonymous advisers judged it for him, however, as an egregious insult. pg. 224

      In August His Holiness, stung by inflammatory remarks insisting Galileo had played him for a fool by allowing Simplicio espouse [Pope] Urban's philosophy... pg 225

      BTW – it was a real pain to dig out the book from my library and find the related passages!

      January 31, 2013 at 9:06 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Akira : Mary, still denying who you are? I traced your ip's: you're Mary Hecht. IP's don't lie, but you do.

      In Webster, NY? Ha ha! That's a lie. Any time you want to meet around Charlotte, NC (within 50 miles), let me know. I'll buy you lunch or dinner. Of course, I'd want you to apologize to everyone on the forum. But, you'll never show, so what difference does it make? BTW – If you'd traced the IP, it would be from NC not NY.

      January 31, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Akira : when you lie about your background, I'm going to call you out on it.

      Well, you may be right that Mary doesn't have my background – I don't know her.

      January 31, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • Akira

      Well, Mary, you were actually the one who said you lived in Webster; you told everyone you were barricaded in your house when that nut killed the two firemen and himself after setting fire to his house.
      The actual addy is:
      123.231.66.11 Niagra Falls for where you're posting from right now...
      Now, dear, you may certainly keep insisting that you aren't Mary, and I get why you would not want to admit that.
      Again, I really don't care about your proselytizing; but do you get down on your knees every night and ask for Jesus's forgiveness for breaking commandments 8 and 9 daily?
      Really, the "I'll make up some new background for myself every time I change my handle" is quite specious, and totally dishonest.

      January 31, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • End Religion

      123.231.66.11 look like Sri Lanka to me. Anyone could route email or web surfing through an anonymizer like TOR.

      January 31, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
  12. Honey Badger Dont Care

    There is nothing in this article that isn't straight out of the bible. The bible not only condones human trafficking but the god of the bible orders it on many occasions and gives rules on how to do it.

    January 31, 2013 at 11:41 am |
  13. George says it best

    George says it best

    January 31, 2013 at 10:53 am |
  14. truth B truth

    All so called christians are in denial. Their comments on these blogs prove their inability to handle the truth. Truth be told there is no good use for a theist in this world or the next. They impede progress and cause trouble throuout history. (Remember, a theocracy caused the Dark Ages. Google Galiloe for historic details). Unneeded and unwanted the rest of the world would be better off without them. Think of the millions who would be alive today if the first 3 popes had killed themselves before they ra.ped, tortutred, and murdered others.

    January 31, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      ...
      Showing results for Galileo
      Search instead for Galiloe

      January 31, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Truth B Truth,

      don't feed the troll.

      January 31, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • truth B truth

      Truth is I had a typo. Doubt i'll end up in Hell for it.
      Truthfully, i also should have removed that bit baout the next life, too. Not everyone has two careers.

      January 31, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • truth be told

      Judging from the post truthbtruth might be incapable of feeding itself.

      January 31, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • just wondering

      What is a baout?

      January 31, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism are unfounded. There is no data indicating that populations under ruthless dictators of past regimes have committed atrocities in the name of atheism. There is data indicating that segments of populations under different religions have committed atrocities in the name of their respective religions. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 31, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Simon says

      Simon says you're an idiot!

      January 31, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Le sigh

      The Dark Ages came about because of the collapse of the Roman Empire. All of the areas that Rome had conquered were now left without a stable government and commerce.

      It had nothing to do with religion. It was entirely economical.

      It wasn't until the Feudal system (i.e. Lords having control over the serfs) that Europe got on its feet and started really having a stable economy. Then the merchants, philosophers and artisans (i.e. the middle class) began to become wealthy that launched the Renaissance.

      Viola. It's history.

      January 31, 2013 at 7:47 pm |
  15. Akira

    Human trafficking is abhorrent.
    Doing it in the name of God is even worse.

    January 31, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Good morning Akira,

      it seems that yours is the only comment that is on topic this morning.

      January 31, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Akira

      Good morning, GOP'er.
      The more I see of this tawdry story, the more disturbed I get...just awful.

      January 31, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • truth B truth

      yes, we are off topic today, but there isn't much to say in this forum about this level of abuse.
      We could discuss the psychology of th monsters who do it, and the emotional state of the victoms, and how to stop it & punish the perps – but this is really just not the place for that much typing and constructive conversation.

      All you can really expect here is people blaming religion, and others blaming athiests/wrong religions.

      January 31, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • Live4Him

      @Akira : Human trafficking is abhorrent. Doing it in the name of God is even worse.

      This is an oxymoron. God's Word condemns human trafficking, so it cannot be done in His name.

      January 31, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • Akira

      Mary, I am talking about the above article, not the Bible.

      My post stands.

      January 31, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Live4Him
      The word of God condemns human trafficing?

      Who God says you can take as your slaves:
      "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
      This is NOT indentured servitude – that was reserved for other hebrews. For example, you could only sell your daughter into slavery to another Jew.
      "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

      Here is God's rule for beating your slaves to within an inch of their ilves:
      "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

      And in the New Testament, God commands slaves to accept their fate and be obedient.
      "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
      "Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

      January 31, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • End Religion

      @Lie4Him: this is the part where you chime in that slavery was the norm and god just wanted people to treat them better than other slaves. "Those slaves had it good in comparison" or some such.... And then we remind you this still means god condoned and advocated slavery.

      There's no point in even replying when this argument comes up since it always goes the same way. If you're going to say anything you have 2 choices: "God was right and I think slavery is just as groovy" or "God was wrong and instead of instructed how to 'appropriately' treat slaves, He should have plainly told everyone slavery was wrong and to release any slaves immediately."

      January 31, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
    • LC

      @Doc Vestibule

      Great job reading the Bible – especially the Old Testament
      Now try reading it in context, or better yet, start with Genesis 3 – the Fall of Man. It was there that sin entered the world. Those laws are earthly laws of that time – laws written by MAN. God's law, however, would be outlined in the 10 Commandments. But, we are supposed to obey the law of the land unless it tells us (Christians) to denounce our faith (Acts 2). There are laws that reign today that are pretty absurd, yet, we still follow them. Indeed, slavery was a "thing", but it was a result of sin. Just because something is written/typed in a Bible does not mean that it's RIGHT....it's there for a reason and you'll understand that once you understand the overall theme of the Bible.

      Note to all atheist/agnostics/etc. PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg you...stop reading the old laws of the land, specifically Leviticus, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and Judges unless you first understand the purpose of the Bible. It is not hatred or to condemn, but it is a theme of love. About a Holy, just God who could just let us die in our sin and hatefulness (including the sick people of the cult mentioned) but offers us grace instead!

      If you are not Christian and you want to read a book to throw in our faces, please, go read the book of Romans; you'll learn a lot more in it than you will in Leviticus....

      February 1, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @LC
      It is rather arrogant of you to assume that I've not read the whole book "in context".
      The passages I posted were merely to refute Live4Him's assertion that the Bible explicitly condemns slavery.
      There is no context in which those OT passages can be construed as anything other than explicit instructions for how to "ethically" partake in the insti/tution of slavery.
      The NT has little to say on the subject other than those couple of verses I quoted – and while don't consti/tute an outright support of slavery, they do give tacit approval.

      I interpret the OT as an apocryphal history of the Jewish people and the NT as the mythologized account of a radical Rabbi's quest to bring the Word of God to the gentiles.

      I am a naturalist who believes that there is no existence save that which we experience directly (ie: no spiritual realm).
      I hold that it is impossible to shift, share, or distribute blame . . . as blame, guilt, responsibility etc. are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. Therefore, we should be rational and realize that not everyone will share the same evaluations of good and evil. We must try to live perfectly in an imperfect world, aware that our efforts will be less than perfect while trying to remain undismayed by self knowledge of failure.
      To me, that concept is central to Christianity. Jesus taught that we are all imperfect and must struggle all our lives to better ourselves. He gave His life to rid humanity of poisonous guilt for our sins and the sins of our fathers. He erased old enmities for us. In Christianity, mankind was given a clean slate with which to move forward in peace, charity and love.
      I believe that the vast majority of Christians lose sight of this core principle and get lost in sectarian dogma, arguing mythological minutiae.
      In the end, the definition of Christian is to live your life in the image of Jesus Christ. Faith in miracles, divinity, resurrections, and other fantastical flourishes isn't required to live a life of pacifism, charity and humility.

      February 1, 2013 at 10:58 am |
  16. lionlylamb

    January 31, 2013 at 8:58 am |
  17. lionlylamb

    January 31, 2013 at 8:56 am |
  18. Atheism is Good for Everyone - Kids Too!

    Different kinds of fundamentalist Christians now as much as ever are arguing with each other with as much sense and rationality as a flock of chickens. They can't support their beliefs by any reasonable means, yet they deem themselves fit to judge others from those beliefs or attempt to put others in the midst of their religious infighting. Their beliefs have a very weak foundation and are not consistent, ergo the over 30,000 different denominations.

    Thomas Jefferson

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    John Adams

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    James Madison

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    Thomas Paine

    I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    January 31, 2013 at 8:13 am |
  19. End Religion

    There is very little distinction between cult and religion. Generally, a cult worships a person as a god, whereas a religion worships a supernatural god. However it is then argued from one god-belief to another why one's brand of belief is not a cult. As it is used today, generally, 'cult' is used to disparage while 'religion' is applied out of consideration. But it is all the same fraud.

    January 31, 2013 at 7:09 am |
    • lionlylamb

      End Religion,

      Instead of you adding to the problem of socialized sarcasms ER, why don't you let bygones be just that, bygones? Your resentment of the religiously motivated is no reason to cry wolf now is it?

      January 31, 2013 at 8:00 am |
    • Primewonk

      @LL – why don't theists, primarily fundamentalist îdiots, stop trying to force their religious mythology into our laws and schools?

      January 31, 2013 at 8:04 am |
    • Science

      @Primewonk

      Agree Creation lost evolution won in court, The Dover trial back in 2005. The talking snake thing and the bone choke

      Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

      Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.

      “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/category/culture-science/
      Peace

      January 31, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • lionlylamb

      Primewonk,

      Again with a focused sarcasm! Enough with the penny pinching ritualistic rubbish already! The 'public' school system is not only outdated but it is becoming a lead weighted pariah in need of life-support! Sure, our kids are far more intelligent than us old farts but can't we old fogies just take a back seat and let our more intellectualized children make their own rules as o what they themselves want to learn about?

      January 31, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • Aldewacs

      @Primewonk – ""why don't theists, primarily fundamentalist îdiots, stop trying to force their religious mythology into our laws and schools?""
      - – - – - -

      Simple: they can't, because indoctrinating children at the earliest possible opportunity is the most effective way to infect them with stories that are hard to erase from their brains after they grow up.
      Educated and free-thinking people are the greatest enemy of all religions, because intelligent people (especially youth) will question things and demand reasonable answers. And that is something religions don't have.

      Therefore they 'have' to try and stem the tide of realism and logic by submitting children to a form of child abuse and brainwashing in order to keep the number of believers from falling even more. That is also why the churches swarm all over dark Africa because the gullibility among the poorly educated is enticing. Low hanging fruit, in a way.

      Education erases religion.

      January 31, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • meifumado

      @Aldewacs

      Very well said sir!

      January 31, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • ProudAtheist

      @LionlyLamb: You believe that the public school system's education is "outdated," and yet you continue to read your 2,000-year-old book of nonsense, which has not been updated since it's inception, and you believe that the Bible should re-enter the school system, because you believe that the 2,000-year-old book of nonsense is a reliable source of truth and knowledge? That's absolutely absurd.

      January 31, 2013 at 9:10 pm |
  20. lionlylamb

    January 31, 2013 at 4:43 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.