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February 7th, 2013
05:21 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Thursday, February 07, 2013

By Arielle Hawkins, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: Boy Scout leaders to vote on ending ban against gay membership
The polarizing debate over whether Boy Scouts of America should allow gay members could culminate with a vote on a new policy Wednesday. But no matter which way the vote goes, activists on both sides aren't going to be satisfied. The controversy pits leaders of religious groups that sponsor about 1 million Boy Scouts against activists who want the organization to end its ban on openly gay Scouts and Scout leaders. Neither side is happy with BSA's proposal to let local troops decide if they want to allow gay members.

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

The Jewish Daily Forward: Palestinian Textbooks Don't Vilify Jews, New Study Reveals
A landmark State Department-funded study has cleared the Palestinians of demonizing Jews in school textbooks but contends that both Israeli and Palestinian teachers use classroom materials that distort the history of the Middle East conflict.

The Guardian: Westboro Baptist church key member Megan Phelps-Roper leaves
One of the most prominent members of the Westboro Baptist church has left it after spending her life as part of the fervently anti-gay movement. Megan Phelps-Roper, who looked after social media for the church best known for its slogan "God hates fags", announced her departure in a post on the blogging platform Medium in which she also revealed her younger sister Grace, 19, was also leaving.

Religion News Service: Lutheran pastor apologizes for praying at Newtown vigil
A Lutheran pastor in Newtown, Conn., has apologized after being reprimanded for participating in an interfaith vigil following the shooting massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School. The Rev. Rob Morris, pastor of Christ the King Lutheran Church, prayed at the vigil the Sunday following the Dec. 14 shootings alongside other Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Baha’i clergy. Morris’ church is a member of the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod, and the denomination’s constitution prohibits ministers from participating in services with members of different faiths.

Reuters: Vatican denies had role in Monte Paschi-Antonveneta deal
The Vatican on Tuesday denied an Italian newspaper report linking its IOR bank to Monte dei Paschi di Siena's 2007 acquisition of smaller rival Antonveneta, a deal which is now the centre of a widening corruption investigation.

Jewish Daily Forward: Mayor Bloomberg Backs Brooklyn College in Flap Over Boycott Israel Panel
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg harshly criticized city officials who had called on Brooklyn College’s political science department to drop their sponsorship of a pro-BDS panel. Stipulating that he “couldn’t disagree more violently” with the movement that seeks to impose boycott, divestment and sanctions on Israel, Bloomberg said he believed an academic department should be allowed to sponsor any sort of panel it liked.

Huffington Post: Grandmother Reportedly Takes A Stand Against Anti-LGBT Pastor To Support Gay Grandson
The story of one courageous grandmother, who reportedly stood up to a church pastor who outed a young gay man during mass, is touching hearts across the Internet. The story was first posted to social news site Reddit by user BMMiller10. Though the Redditor actually wrote about the incident several months ago, the post only recently rose to the top of the r/lgbt subreddit this week, according to Gay Star News.

Quote of the Day:

The Bible isn't meant to be a manual of natural science. Instead it is meant to make understandable the authentic and deep truth of all things… The world is not a collection of opposing forces, but has its origin and steadiness in the Word, in the eternal reason of God, who continues to sustain the universe.

– Pope Benedict XVI on Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at his weekly general audience.

Join the conversation…

CNN: Arkansas to allow concealed guns in churches
The Arkansas House of Representatives has overwhelmingly passed a measure that would allow concealed guns to be carried in churches and houses of worship, and the governor’s office says it plans to sign the bill. The measure, which passed 85-8 on Monday, gives houses of worship the option of allowing concealed weapons.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Morning Read

soundoff (235 Responses)
  1. Austin

    If you do not know what the Bible says about judging false teachers, then you may feel it is acceptable to call Hitler a Christian.

    this is because you have an agenda that is not associated with the criteria of The Holy Word.

    There are over 75 verses specifically aimed at false teachers. These verses are there for a reason.

    Stop with your slander. Unless you know the new testament and follow with the guidlines of judging false teachers, you have no shot at judging who is or is not a Christian. Judging is a responsibility, descerning spirits is a sense that someone with the Holy spirit is capable of. If you don't have the Holy Spirit, you cant descern an authentic Christian.

    Stop with your slander. Adolf Hitler is not associated with Jesus Christ, and does not effect the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    Adolf hitler represented evil.

    February 7, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • Zingo

      That reply button is so tricky, isn't it?

      February 7, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • kronung

      "Adolf hitler represented evil."

      So he was a christian.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • Austin

      Galatians 5:22-23
      22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

      Jesus defends a pro-stiute
      When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
      Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jwish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world."

      February 7, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Akira

      It isn't slander to call Hitler a Christian, when in fact he WAS.
      Look up the definition of slander. Sorry the truth hurts you, but the truth is, as heinous as he was, he was, in fact a Christian.
      You may certainly proselytize all you wish on this subject; the fact remains, he was a Christian.
      Suck it up, big boy, and move on. You're entirely wrong on this subject.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • truth be told

      Those closest to hitler knew hitler was an atheist as do all rational thinking people. That said, all normal decent people know that so called atheists are liars and will not be convinced of any Truth. That is the so called atheists loss. Forget the millions dead and suffering at the hands of one atheist and you are still numbering over a billion murdered by all the others. The fact remains atheist have brutally tortured and murdered more innocent people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • Akira

      When you deliberately lie, truth be told, even if it is for Jesus, you are still a liar.
      Present any evidence that Hitler called himself an atheist.
      I can certainly present you with the evidence that he, in his sick, twisted mind, thought he was doing God's work.

      Stop lying, truth be told. You have outed yourself many times that, in fact, you are incapable of telling the truth, and you in fact wish death upon many people...you are no Christian.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • truth be told's Translator

      What truth be told really means is, "I will conveniently forget that the so called gawd murdered every human, animal and plant on earth."

      February 7, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Austin

      @ Akira

      until you have the courage to read the verses on false teachers, all you are doing is willingly twisting something you have no part in what so ever. You slander the ministry of the Holy Spirit. If you think you are going to get away with that, you are going to be on the wrong end of a supernatural God.

      I know that demonic activity is a fact of life, i have experienced it, and i can tell you that you are carrying out the ministry of the devil.
      John 8:42-45
      King James Version (KJV)
      42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

      43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

      44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

      45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
    • truth be told

      I never forget the judgment of God. It stands as a very present warning to you, since you are aware of Gods wrath you are without excuse. Justice is not murder.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • Austin

      Akira, ea Christian is someone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. you dont believe that though, which is why you have no intention of abiding WITHIN the judgments and discernment of "The Word of God"

      there are over 75 verses depicting "wolves in sheep;s clothing" who are there as perverts, as an attack on your mind.
      if you will not abide in these desciptions, if you do not believe in the Holy Spirit, the you have no sense of truth, reality or evil.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
    • Akira

      Austin, again, for thereading comprehension impaired, (and I will type this slowly so you can keep up) I never claimed that Hitler was a good Christian, or that he was or was not filled with the Holy spirit. I merely stated what is in fact known about Hitler: HE WAS A CHRISTIAN.
      And if you think I agree in any way, shape, or form with what Hitler did, you are severly delusional.

      This is an invitation for you to stop telling me what I am or am not; stop judging ME.
      Until you find to courage to admit that, as abhorrent as it is, Hitler considered himself a Christian, you are not facing reality al ALL.
      I am not questioning your devoutness, I AM questioning your rather immature denial of Hitler being exactly what he stated to be, even if he didn't adhere to Christ's teachings. At all.
      Do you GET my point yet?

      Tbt, until you stop lying, any judgement you get will be deserved. Cut the disingenuity.

      February 7, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      Hitler was indeed a Christian. But we shouldn't be surprised by Austin. That's the true nature of Christianity – every other Christian thinks that every other Christian is not a Christian. It's built right in nice and tight, ready for war – with each other if necessary!

      February 7, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Akira

      And, Austin, do not ever presume that you know what I believe. You don't. Can it.

      February 7, 2013 at 7:42 pm |
    • Austin

      No Akira, judging you is exactly what I will do through my knowledge on what God's word says.

      Judas Iscariot was a disciple, but he was not a christian. He too committed suicide. He is in hell apparently, which means that he was not a Christian (judas).

      You deny the authority of scripture based on what it says about false teachers, therefore without your adherance to doctrine, you are disqualified, your words carry no value.

      there are those who say this country is Christian, the crusaders were christian. ect. The fact remains, that the bible talks about hell, more than it talks about heaven. false teachers and false religion is so well forcasted, that if you cant find the decency to put Adolf Hitler in that category, you are working for the devil trying to pervert the ministry of the Holy Spirit, and a pervert of the Name of Jesus Christ.

      Christian is not an ethnicity. And false christianity, do you hear me FALSE CHRISTIANITY has been defined by the word of God. you WILL NOT slander the authentic sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in the face of God. He will abandon you to your sin and wickedness, His back will be turned. You entertain and deceive eachother with this lie, because your heart is desperately wicked and deceitful beyond measure. and your goal is to slander the authentic ministry of the Holy Spirit.
      Jeremiah
      "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?

      Genesis 6:5
      The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

      1 John 4:1

      Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

      Romans 16:17-18

      I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appettes, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

      Matthew 7:15 ESV / 131 helpful votes

      “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

      2 John 1:10-11

      If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

      jude 1:1-25

      Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ: May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. ...

      February 7, 2013 at 7:59 pm |
    • Austin

      12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

      Here we Christians are told to look up and rejoice when we see terrible things happening, because our redemption draweth nigh. The devil, even now, is in an all out push to destroy the church as it used to be fifty years ago. He realizes his time is running out, and he is working on the believers, trying to convert them to his way. His scheme is to tell us not to be a radical Christian. He is trying to make us not take God real seriously. He doesn't mind going to most churches, because he hears very little pure Word of God and no sermons on the blood. Watering down Jesus is one of his favorite tools to destroy the church.

      It will be Satan's final attempt to prevent the return and the reign of Christ. He has only a short time to try to prevent the establishment of Christ's kingdom. Therefore he has great wrath and intensifies his persecution of Israel, God's chosen nation, which setting up his own counterfeit kingdom through the Beast, the false messiah.

      12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].

      Satan's persecution of Israel is apparently an attempt to exterminate God's chosen people, thereby preventing the fulfillment of God's promises to Abraham and David in the messianic from persecution.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:06 pm |
    • Akira

      Austin.
      You choose to remain willfully ignorant of the point I was trying to make; I choose not to indulge you any further.
      You shall not judge me; that is not for you to do, and the fact that you continue to try shows me you are not true the Christ's words, either.
      Have a pleasant evening, sir.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
    • Akira

      You deny the authority of scripture based on what it says about false teachers, therefore without your adherance to doctrine, you are disqualified, your words carry no value.

      there are those who say this country is Christian, the crusaders were christian. ect. The fact remains, that the bible talks about hell, more than it talks about heaven. false teachers and false religion is so well forcasted, that if you cant find the decency to put Adolf Hitler in that category, you are working for the devil trying to pervert the ministry of the Holy Spirit, and a pervert of the Name of Jesus Christ.

      You are bearing false witness.
      9th commandment broken.
      I said that Hitler was a Christian, because that is what he claimed he was.
      If you do not understand that this was what I am trying to convey, you are being willfully ignorant, and now you are presenting "facts" about me not in evidence.
      If fact, YOU are slandering ME.
      I have stated repeatedly that Hitler wasn't the bastion of Christianity, yet you continue to insinuate that I am somehow less than because I stated a FACT.
      And then you judge ME? Trying to usurp Jesus and God himself?
      You deny the scriptures very well, yourself. Hypocrite.

      I'm leaving this blog; I find having to repeat myself to be extremely tedious, as if I'm talking to a toddler.
      Good evening.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • Austin

      No Hitler was not a Christian, he was controlled by Satan.

      You don't know what a Christian is Akira.

      You are sitting here saying that Hitler was under the power of the Holy Spirit

      That is what a Christian is.

      If you believe what hitler says and claims, then you trust in Hitler idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      and you have denied what the bible says a Christian is, you have your own definition, and your faith and trust is in the word of Hitler.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:40 pm |
    • fred

      Akira
      Claimed to be a Christian is very different from being a Christian. A Christian is a follower of Christ which Hitler was not. Hint, Jesus was abused by the Jews while Hitler abused the Jews.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:41 pm |
    • Austin

      Righteous indignation is typically a reactive emotion of anger over perceived mistreatment, insult, or malice. It is akin to what is called the sense of injustice. In some Christian doctrines, righteous indignation is considered the only form of anger which is not sinful, e.g., when Jesus drove the money lenders out of the temple.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:44 pm |
    • Incontinentia Buttocks

      The more religios people explain their views, the crazier they reveal themselves to be.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
    • Arvin Huac

      So when Jesus was mad at the fig tree and killed it, it was legitimate righteous indignation that the fig tree did not bear fruit out of season for him?

      February 7, 2013 at 8:55 pm |
    • fred

      Arvin
      The Fig tree was symbolic of professed believers that did not bear fruit. Fruit is known to be the fruits of the Spirit such as love, peace, joy, etc.
      We all a season and in season or out of season we are expected to be fruitful. The penalty is judgment.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • Arvin Huac

      fred, that interpretation is not supported by the Bible.

      But there is no getting around the stated fact that Jesus got mad at a fig tree. And killed it. Not sane behavior. Pretending it is symbolic is just a cover-up of Jesus' challenges with sanity.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:45 pm |
    • Mrs. Pepperpot

      Austin, I didn't see anywhere that Akira stated she thought Hitler was a good Christian. I also didn't see where Akira stated she wasn't a Christian, therefore, I have to conclude that you are so zealous in your belief that you figure anyone who doesn't proselytize exactly the same way you do is found wanting in your eyes.

      I also have observed no righteous indignation on Akira's part, other than pointing out that you are trying to play God and Jesus by judging her; I have seen plenty of righteous indignation on your part, however. You assume much.

      Perhaps you are so afraid of Satan that you see him in every post every person makes. I do assure you, this isn't true.

      No, Hitler wasn't a true Christian, and she never made that claim.
      Lighten up. She is right; Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and it is in the history books thusly.

      You are a tad bit overbearing in your zealotry; next I suspect you will be pointing a finger at her and shouting "A Witch!"

      February 7, 2013 at 10:22 pm |
  2. Science

    Creationists in a test tube below
    .
    Peace

    New STEM science standards for 2013 created by majority of states

    News Release Jan. 30 2013

    3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)

    University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube

    Thanks Doc.

    February 7, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
  3. Science

    Science Facts

    Check your god(S) at the cave enterance before entering.. No god(s) required for studying humans on this thread
    Talking snake not in cave.

    updated 1 hour 55 minutes ago
    Jan. 29 2013

    Scientists have unearthed and dated some of the oldest stone hand axes on Earth. The ancient tools, unearthed in Ethiopia in the last two decades, date to 1.75 million years ago.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50620121/ns/technology_and_science-science/

    Ancient DNA reveals humans living 40,000 years ago in Beijing area related to present-day Asians, Native Americans January 21, 2013

    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-ancient-dna-reveals-humans-years.html#jCp

    February 7, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
  4. ouch

    February 7, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Austin

      Don't watch this it will ruin your good mood.!

      where is the erase video button?

      why do they put this stuff on youtube?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • meifumado

      Poor guy, Why did god not help him?

      February 7, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Austin

      Hitlers belief in the master race, challenges the creation account that there is one human race. the Ademic race.
      He did not submit to any biblical form of living life.
      he was all in to evolution and superior scientific race. There is nothing in the bible that justifies any of this. He was an evil scientist.

      I cant tell you if he was an athiest, but calling him christian is slander, and even calling him religious is giving too much credit to that psycho killer. he qualifies by deed as a satinist.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • Johnny Blammo

      Not sure how you got that out of a faked sharky video, Austin, but Hitler paid his church taxes (a German custom) right up to his death, when he easily did not have to. And amongst the first groups imprisoned upon his ascent to power in 1933 were atheists.

      Hitler was not an atheist. He was not a scientist. He was not a Darwinist but a Social Darwinist, which is a perversion of evolution created by racists to justify their racism. It is not a scientific theory at all; indeed, scientists quickly debunked it.

      So you are totally wrong. But I bet you continue to repeat your lies. That is what Christians like you and Chad and Topher do.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • Zingo

      Don't worry about beach dude. The Bible says he can survive for three days in there. So he's fine.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Austin

      there are over 75 verses in the new testament dealing with false teachers/ antichrist deceivers. we are called to judge. many politicians pander to the church . this was what hitler was involved in, who knows how deep he was self deceived. same as the crusades.

      let me ask you this. what are the 75 verses about false teachers and deceivers there for? Why was this clearly spelled out?

      you have an agenda to bring down the truth of Jesus Christ, by associating Him with the work of the devil. This is an assault on the Lord God. And you are clearly aiding the devil in an attempt to slander Jesus Christ. Satan stands before God accusing you of your unbelief, and I simply ask you to reconsider your tactics bearing in mind the fact that false teachers and deceivers "wolves in sheep's clothing" are allready in the forecast. This is the epitomy of evil. stop aiding and abetting evil.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
    • Austin

      everyone know how rediculous the Catholic church was for "selling" salvation. by the same logic Hitler can not buy salvation by giving money. Molesting priests are not christians either pal.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      And none of the 75 should be given any credence until it is proven gods exist and that The Babble is in fact the word of some god. Without proof, The Babble is just another fairy tale.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      Austin, Austin, that mythology crap is so old school. Get with the show, son!

      February 7, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
    • Satan

      You know the part in the Bible about false prophets misleading people? I put that in. You see, Christianity was my work. That is why so much evil comes of it. You think it is the other Christians who are deceived by me, but ALL Christians are.

      You are my minion, Austin. You help spread my deceit, and you are doing a wonderful job.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • Austin

      I have witnessed demonic activity, and I abide in the Word for the hope of discerning spirits, truth and falsehood which leads to spiritual and eternal death.

      You are playing with the wrong reality. My God is awesome, He is love, and He is just. He is supernatural. He is the great I AM . and if He is for us, that who can be against us?

      February 7, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
  5. Hank

    New Dinosaur Tracks Study Suggests Cataclysm
    by Brian Thomas, M.S. *

    Casual observers are not the only ones who puzzle over dinosaur footprint origins. After all, other animal tracks in mud are not fossilized today because erosive processes rapidly erase them. If a rock layer requires thousands of years to solidify, then how were dinosaur tracks recorded in them?

    A team of paleontologists specializing in "ichnology," the study of fossil tracks, just released a radically different explanation for the famous "dinosaur stampede" track ways in Queensland, Australia. Their analysis unwittingly confirmed a creation-flood explanation of dinosaur footprint formation that was first published in 1995.

    Researchers had published a series of technical descriptions in the late 1970s and early 1980s of the tracks. The tracks are found in alternating layers of sandstone and thin clay, which appear to have been made by small theropod or ornithopod dinosaurs that took very large steps. In other words, the tracks showed long stride lengths for such small feet. The team interpreted this as having been caused by fast-running, stampeding dinosaurs.

    The tracks have weathered and faded significantly since then, but much information remains. By 2004, Australian authorities covered the site, called "Dinosaur Stampede National Monument," to aid research and to host visitors.1

    But a new analysis, published in The Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, confronts the stampeding idea. In it, researchers describe more evidence—including variations in the tracks, sandstone grain wear, cross-bedding patterns, and such clues as fossilized tree branch scrap-e marks—that best fits a scenario whereby dinosaurs were alternatively floating, partly floating, or wading in a fast-moving, very broad, high energy flow event that featured rapidly fluctuating water depths.

    Their results described how turkey-sized three-toed dinosaurs swam, sometimes with their claws barely scraping the sand. When wading in shallow water, their feet sunk deeply into the sand that quickly hardened. And the new reason for the long stride length is that fast-moving water current carried along the dinosaurs.

    The study included estimates of water depth, ranging from 14 to 160 centimeters, or about 6 inches to five feet, based on footprint-derived scale-ups of the dinosaur's hip heights. The study authors wrote, "The sedimentologic and ichnological observations are consistent with interpretations of the area being a fluvial-dominated floodplain under variable subaqueous conditions."2 The word "fluvial" refers to river action. But the sandstone formation may be as large as the entire state of Queensland. Are they suggesting that there was a river as wide as Queensland? A great flood would make more sense.

    This analysis strikingly confirms the Flood-friendly Briefly Exposed Diluvial Sediments (BEDS) hypothesis." Creation researcher Mike Oard suggested that the global water level temporarily lulled during the year-long global Flood of Noah's day. After the waters ceased rising globally, they sloshed across broad, flat landscapes. Then, slowly at first, they began to flow off of the new continents into deeper ocean basins.3 John Morris extended this concept in his recent book The Global Flood.4

    During that lull, the last hardy, barely surviving creatures were dinosaurs, struggling against currents, predation, starvation, and exhaustion as they tromped in soggy sediments. All the clues at Lark Quarry in Queensland point to a powerful watery cataclysm, consistent with the Flood in general and particularly consistent with the BEDS hypothesis.5

    February 7, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • alias

      You need to get out more.
      Everyone knows that the dinosaurs are a conspiracy. The government made them up to scare people and discourage time travel.
      You all know that, right?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • Austin

      I feel sorry for them.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Tommy

      Wasn't the world flooded for only 40 days and not a year?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Thank goodness ('cause almost assuredly there are no gods, not even just one) for eyeonicr – see https://eyeonicr.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      What do want?
      TIME TRAVEL!

      When do we want it?
      IT DOESN'T MATTER!

      February 7, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommy, Noah's flood was not global but regional. The flood that destroyed the entire world was the katabole. You can read that in 2 Peter 3:6

      6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (KJV)

      February 7, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • niknak

      S_kank,

      Too long, too boring......

      February 7, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • ME II

      "19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered." (Gen 7:19)

      February 7, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      There has never been a world wide flood. The physics of such a thing are absolutely impossible.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • meifumado

      Utter nonsense, try again please

      February 7, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
  6. Live4Him

    @Akira : Hitler was not an atheist. This has been proven to you again and again

    Hitler advanced the goal of evolution : perfection of the human race.

    February 7, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Lie4him
      Evolution does not have a goal. It is a process without thought. There is no such thing as a perfect species, but all species need to adapt to a changing world, and evolution is the mechanism by which it is achieved.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      You're really scraping the bottom now. Seek psychiatric help immediately.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Wow...do you even know what evolution is? Just wow. I saw you're bizarre geological claims and thought it unlikely you could be that stupid, but now I’m leaning the other way. Were you home schooled by a high school drop-out in a Unification church camp or something?

      Yep, I freely admit I'm just being insulting now but people this dumb shouldn't be speaking in public and we all have our limits.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Richard Cranium : Evolution does not have a goal. It is a process without thought.

      Does the consequences of evolution teach that higher species will out-survive lesser species? Yes. Therefore evolution DOES have a goal, even if it is not an intended goal or a planned goal. All Hitler was doing was trying to speed the process along.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Saraswati : Yep, I freely admit I'm just being insulting now but people this dumb shouldn't be speaking in public and we all have our limits.

      Do you lack the intellectual capability to convey your thoughts in a lucid manner? What hinders your ability to communicate rationally and respectfully? You obviously don't object to the facts presented, else you would have addressed these objections rather than an inane personal attack.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Live4Him

      "Does the consequences of evolution teach that higher species will out-survive lesser species? Yes."

      Actually, no, that's not what evolutionists believe. There is no higher or lower but more suitable to the environment at a particular point in time. Evolution will often, but not always, move to the more complex, but that isn't the same thing as higher, and is not always the case. If you tweak the conditions one way one group might be more likely to survive, another and it's a different group.

      Take genes for weight gain as an example. Conditions previously favored those with "efficient" genes...because those who put on weight easily were more likely to survive. But now those same genes work against people...obesity brings health and social conditions that do not favor reproduction. Yet conditions of famine could reverse this. There is no "higher" form of the gene; not one is “better” in an absolute sense. Yet the species do evolve, all species, even today.

      These scientific facts have nothing to do with the ethics of what we think “should” be done regarding genetics. That's a field completely separate from the science.

      Seriously, this is high school science and at most freshman year of college ethics. If I were you I'd read a book or two before typing anything else.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      LIE4him
      Do you even know what a goal is? You are demonstrating your inability to grasp the simplest concept again.
      Hitler was a proponent of creating HIS master race, with no real science behinid what master race was except for what was in his head. He tried to use the evolutionary process to an un-natural end.
      Evolution has no goal. It is just a process for continuous change in all life. A perfect being is impossible, so how could it be a goal, and how could that goal be set without sentience.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • alias

      @live4him
      So no christians would breed dogs or horses, right?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Live4Him,

      "You obviously don't object to the facts presented, else you would have addressed these objections rather than an inane personal attack."

      On the contrary, I think you don't even know what evolution is but that fact is obvious to any high school graduate and doesn't need explaining (I did anyway...couldn't help myself).

      I think you really don't realize just how ignorant what you said was. Imagine I said that the earth was flat (a comparably ignorant statement). Would you really go into a long scientific discourse to explain to me that it wasn't flat or would you assume I was the ignorant nutter I had evidenced myself to be? Now imagine I kept posting on an internationally accessible internet site statements that the earth is flat, day after day, week after week. No matter what evidence people gave me I ignored it. Would you still keep explaining to me?

      Really, you actually DON’T KNOW what evolution means as studied in today’s science classes. That’s just scary.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      You are showing, once again, that you have no understanding of evolution, or really science in general.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      You're confusing evolution with eugenics.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Saraswati : Actually, no, that's not what evolutionists believe.

      It is what evolutionists have acknowledged in a court of law, regardless what you claim they say now.

      http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mclean-v-arkansas.html

      McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education case
      "Evolution-science" means ... (2) The sufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of present living kinds from simple earlier kinds;
      ...
      Presently, the concepts of evolutionary theory as described in 4(b) permeate the public textbooks.

      @Saraswati : There is no "higher" form of the gene; not one is “better” in an absolute sense.

      In the court, it was agreed that evolution transitions from "simpler" to more advanced (which i called 'higher').

      @Saraswati : If I were you I'd read a book or two before typing anything else.

      And yet, I can demonstrate a broader knowledge on the topic than you.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him, So by your logic, humans are the most advanced species so that means that there can be no lesser apes or mammals or fish or insects. I don't know if you know better but just lie or you really have no reasoning power.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @alias : So no christians would breed dogs or horses, right?

      This isn't evolution, but hereditary trait optimization. The species doesn't change.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      You people need to stop humoring Stupid4Him.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @In Santa we trust : So by your logic

      It's not MY 'logic' but what was acknowledged in a court of law.

      @In Santa we trust : humans are the most advanced species

      Not at all. Every species out there is the most advanced species in that individual branch. If a more advance species appears in that branch, then the simplier species will be out-competed and become extinct (according to evolution).

      February 7, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "What hinders your ability to communicate rationally and respectfully?"

      I really gotta ask: What manner of respect are you showing the rest of us by quote mining and copy-and-pasting ICR propaganda?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Saraswati

      So, lets evaluate your response.

      L4H: "You obviously don't object to the facts presented, else you would have addressed these objections rather than an inane personal attack."

      1) On the contrary, I think you don't even know what evolution is but that fact is obvious to any high school graduate and doesn't need explaining (I did anyway...couldn't help myself).
      Personal attack.

      2) I think you really don't realize just how ignorant what you said was.
      Personal attack.

      3) Imagine I said that the earth was flat (a comparably ignorant statement). Would you really go into a long scientific discourse to explain to me that it wasn't flat or would you assume I was the ignorant nutter I had evidenced myself to be?
      Personal attack.

      4) Now imagine I kept posting on an internationally accessible internet site statements that the earth is flat, day after day, week after week. No matter what evidence people gave me I ignored it.
      Personal attack.

      5) Would you still keep explaining to me?
      Question relating to a strawman.

      6) Really, you actually DON’T KNOW what evolution means as studied in today’s science classes. That’s just scary.
      Personal attack.

      ===================================

      So, after going through your entire post, it contains nothing except logic fallacies. This implies that you either lack objective evidence to discuss or lack the capability to rationally discuss your views. I rest my case.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Live4Him
      Instead of using Hitler as your example of Evolutionary biologists, why not Dr. Greg Graffin?
      “An accurate view of evolution, in all its multifaceted and anarchic glory... We are all evolved creatures who share a common way or perceiving and responding to the world. And yet each of us is unique, the product on an irreproducible set of causal events. Given that we cannot judge people on the basis of their biology or their fitness with respect to some arbitrary criterion of optimality, we have to conclude that all human variants are equally valid. (This conclusion can be derived purely on ethical grounds as well.) None of us is advantaged because of evolution over any other, whether strong or weak, able-bodied or disabled, woman or man, black, white, or any other color. Simply existing as part of the human species, each person automatically has an inherent worth and dignity.”
      ― Greg Graffin

      February 7, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him, I don't see that quote in the link you provided. Can you c&p the quote here?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Logic Fail

      Perhaps we should quote from Roe V Wade to detrmine the truth about fetus's. If the court rules it it must be true.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Oh look, Lie4Him is caught in another lie.
      What he put was the language of the act that was being challenged. What he neglected to mention is the language of the definition for "creation-science" (there's no such thing anyway) was parallel to Genesis, and the whole law was scrapped by the courts. Which left evolution in and kicked creationism to th curb.
      The language was not some "court decision", and Lie4Him merely shows again that he took Luther seriously.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @TANK!!!! : I really gotta ask: What manner of respect are you showing the rest of us by quote mining and copy-and-pasting ICR propaganda?

      What's ICR?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      "Evolution-science" means ... (2) The sufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of present living kinds from simple earlier kinds;"

      "simple" not "simpler"
      This does not mean that later species are "higher", but they may be more complex. Complex can be quantified. "Higher" is a judgement.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Austin

      ya tank the other day you recommended straight jackets for Christians.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him. Despite all these tangents and sidestepping, evolution is a fact and creationism is just the myth ancient peoples invented to explain their circumstances before science could do that. You have no evidence that evolution is false because it is not. There may be certain mechanisms not fully understood but evolution is the scientifically valid explanation and creationism is the tattered remnants of one ancient superstition.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • ME II

      @hawaiiguest,
      Good point. The quote was from the act not the court decision or science literature.
      I don't think the way you presented it is useful though.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "Obviously there have been some very poor uses of evolution in the 20th century. Social Darwinism for instance and we point out in the book that that's not a viable way of using evolutionary knowledge. What's going on with society is entirely different from what goes on in nature."
      – Dr. Greg Graffin (discussing his book "Anarchy Evolution: Faith, Science and Bad Religion in a World Without God"

      February 7, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him, "What's ICR?" Very funny. Look on your pay slip.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      You don't know who ICR is?
      From your own earlier link:

      "IV(A)

      The approach to teaching "creation science" and "evolution-science" found in Act 590 is identical to the two-model approach espoused by the Institute for Creation Research and is taken almost verbatim from ICR writings. It is an extension of Fundamentalists' view that one must either accept the literal interpretation of Genesis or else believe in the godless system of evolution."

      Did you even read the page that you linked, or, as seems to be the case, you just cherrypicked and misrepresented a single part so you could make a non-point that you don't even understand?
      I wonder if you'll answer this post, then again every other time I've used your own links to call you on lies, you have ignored it, so I don't know why I'm wondering if you'll "spontaneously generate" some integrity. (I wonder if anyone will get that joke).

      February 7, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "Our faith should be expressed in working toward a better planet for our children and not the selfish, juvenile hope for a better afterlife for ourselves. I don't think anyone is going to Hell because it only exists in the minds of people who wish ill-will on others."
      – Dr. Greg Graffin

      February 7, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @In Santa we trust : I don't see that quote in the link you provided. Can you c&p the quote here?

      You don't know how to use the find commmand? I'd almost swear that the people on this forum are seeing this case for the first time!

      Section 4 of the Act provides:
      ...

      (b) "Evolution-science" means the scientific evidences for evolution and inferences from those scientific evidences. Evolution-science includes the scientific evidences and related inferences that indicate: (1) Emergence by naturalistic processes of the universe from disordered matter and emergence of life from nonlife; (2) The sufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of present living kinds from simple earlier kinds; (3) Emergence by mutation and natural selection of present living kinds from simple earlier kinds; (4) Emergence of man from a common ancestor with apes; (5) Explanation of the earth's geology and the evolutionary sequence by uniformitarianism; and (6) An inception several billion years ago of the earth and somewhat later of life.
      ...
      IV(E)
      Act 590 mandates "balanced treatment" for creation science and evolution science. The Act prohibits instruction in any religious doctrine or references to religious writings. The Act is self-contradictory and compliance is impossible unless the public schools elect to forego significant potions of subjects such as biology, world history, geology, zoology, botany, psychology, anthropology, sociology, philosophy, physics and chemistry. Presently, the concepts of evolutionary theory as described in 4(b) permeate the public textbooks. There is no way teachers can teach the Genesis account of creation in a secular manner.

      @hawaiiguest : What he put was the language of the act that was being challenged.

      Of course I did! I also put in the clarifying remark by the court that the concepts are presently taught in schools. I do realize that the court ruled that the definition wasn't complete (i.e. lacking PE, etc.), but the point is that this sub-definition was recognized by the court. I also realize that the court struck down the law, but it doesn't change the fact that what was recognized is that the definition I provided is accurate to the limit that it was stated.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • fred

      Doc
      One commonality in humans would be worship that appears as early as Neanderthal. Science cannot say if that is the result of actual external presence or internal neurologic response. The existence of “spirit” is self evident only the source is unresolved. Take for example tourists sitting in glow of the Northern Lights and suddenly a child is missing. A spirit overtakes all present with total focus upon the child. In those moments the only thing that exists is that spirit searching and distraught all else is meaningless or nonexistent.

      Is that not something greater than Graffin’s thoughts of human dignity and worth that transformed all present reality for the tourists? Is it possible that is what captured Neanderthal and Saul of Tarsus rather than some organic related event? Clearly one cannot be an atheist in the presence of observable spirit.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him, Of course I can use the Find command – that's how I saw that the words you used were not there. Nor is the conclusion that you came to.
      So what proof do you have?

      February 7, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @hawaiiguest : You don't know who ICR is? From your own earlier link:

      Talk origins is an evolution site, not a creationist site. I'm SURE you know this!

      February 7, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • ME II

      "As a statement of the theory of evolution, Section 4(b) is simply a hodgepodge of limited assertions, many of which are factually inaccurate.

      For example, although 4(b)(2) asserts, as a tenet of evolutionary theory, "sufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of present living kinds from simple earlier kinds," Drs. Ayala and Gould both stated that biologists know that these two processes do not account for all significant evolutionary change. The testified to such phenomena as recombination, the founder effect, genetic drift and the theory of punctuated equilibrium, which are believed to play important evolutionary roles. Section 4(b) omits any reference to these. Moreover, 4(b) utilizes the term "kinds" which all scientists have said is not a word of science and has no fixed meaning. Additionally, the Act presents both evolution and creation science as "package deals." Thus, evidence critical to some aspect of what the creationists define as evolution is taken as support for a theory which includes a worldwide flood and a relatively young earth (24)."
      ( also from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mclean-v-arkansas.html )

      February 7, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Akira

      "Hitler advanced the goal of evolution : perfection of the human race."

      LOL. LOL. LOL.
      Revisionist much?
      I don't have to say anything else; my fellow bloggers have done a very nice job of refuting this disingenuous remark.

      And it doesn't negate that Hitler WAS a Christian.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • Tommy

      Even if Hitler did do what you are claiming it would only prove that he was as dumb as you are.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      Did you even fucking read my post? The very page you linked mentions the ICR, which, as I said, shows that YOU DID NOT READ THE WHOLE THING! Merely cherry picked what you think supports your non-point best! I guess you really have no integrity after all.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      More useless bullshit from the king of useless bullshit, fred.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Live4Him, I admitted in my very first post that I was making a personal comment. There is nothing in a personal comment that invalidates anything else that is said – to claim there is is to commit the ad hominem fallacy fallacy. I am simply stating that you are an idiot, not basing may arguments on that fact.

      You "definition" of evolution is not that used by the scientific community. To see a discussion of the difference you can check out this NCSE publication

      http://ncse.com/rncse/21/1-2/defining-evolution

      A good modern definition is here:

      Biological (or organic) evolution is change in the properties of populations of organisms or groups of such populations, over the course of generations. The development, or ontogeny, of an individual organism is not considered evolution: individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are ‘heritable' via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportions of different forms of a gene within a population, such as the alleles that determine the different human blood types, to the alterations that led from the earliest organisms to dinosaurs, bees, snapdragons, and humans.

      Douglas J. Futuyma (1998) Evolutionary Biology 3rd ed.,
      Sinauer Associates Inc. Sunderland MA p.4

      February 7, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @In Santa we trust : So what proof do you have?

      Did the court acknowledge the simplier-to-advanced trend is taught in schools? Yes.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Live4Him,

      Even if the court data you provided had been a valid "ruling" do you really think that one small court in a country that makes up only about 5% of the world's population defines scientific terminology?

      And this wasn't the original claim. You started by trying to claim Hitler was an atheist using the line:

      Hitler advanced the goal of evolution : perfection of the human

      First, most Hindus, Jews and Catholics believe in evolution. Even if this claim about Hitler and evolution made sense it would in now way further your implication that he was an atheist.

      Second, as has been pointed out by others, evolution is not an ideology, just a description of science. There is no goal.

      Third, you seem to be working with some archaic view of evolution that has bipassed the last 100 years of science. At best it's like arguing psychology is a crock because Freud was wrong. But it's not even that credible because you aren't matching even earlyversions of the theory.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Saraswati : There is nothing in a personal comment that invalidates anything else that is said

      Your entire post was ad hominems. There were no facts discussed.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      When you start discussing facts, then you'll have the credibility. As of yet, you have not been discussing anything but your opinionated bullshit.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him, You know I meant proof of evolution being false or your Hitler nonsense.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • meifumado

      @Live4Him
      Do you believe in the stork theory as well?

      February 7, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Saraswati : And this wasn't the original claim. You started by trying to claim Hitler was an atheist using the line:

      So, you take the thread down this rabbit trail and blame it on ME?

      Saraswati : your implication that he was an atheist.

      My point was that he followed the humanist beliefs rather than Christian beliefs. Hitler's childhood years has as much to do with his beliefs as the atheists on this forum who had a Catholic/Christian upbringing had on their adult-years belief in God – Nothing. Many people on this forum was raised Catholic or Christian, but now argue against such beliefs. So, why would Hitler's upbringing be more impactful on his faith? It wouldn't. Surely, this obvious to you – right?

      Saraswati : some archaic view of evolution that has bipassed the last 100 years of science.

      The court case was much less than 100 years ago.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      Is there something just wrong with you, or do you feel the need to be dishonest for your religion. You talk about Hitler following evolution in his genocide, and you give absolutely nothing but twisting and turning what evolution is, and what you think.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Live4Him, I and everyone else here are repeatedly stating the same facts. 1) you are not using the correct scientific definition of evolution (hint: that is defined my scientists not lawyers and politicians) and 2) there is no evidence to claim Hitler was an atheist, in particular because you are conflating your bad definition of evolution with atheism. You don't like the facts, that's all. You are deeply confused about what atheism and evolution both are, and apparently are not familiar enough with science to know how "evolution" is used in the world scientific community and are not familiar enough with religions other than your own to know that many, if not most, of the world's theists believe in evolution (as defined by the scientific community).

      February 7, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @hawaiiguest : When you start discussing facts, then you'll have the credibility.

      Did Hitler push a 'Master Race' agenda? Fact.
      Does evolution proposes a gradual change from simple to advanced? Fact.

      Why don't you acknowlegde these facts? Or is it that you don't like the conclusion and cannot object to the facts so you bring up trivial issues.

      BTW – I'm heading out.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Live

      Because there's no fucking link between the two you stupid dishonest shit! People have been pointing this out and YOU'RE IGNORING IT!
      This is why I call you a dishonest fuck. BECAUSE YOU ARE!

      February 7, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Akira

      L4H: "Hitler advanced the goal of evolution : perfection of the human race."

      No, he was trying to eliminate those he felt were inferior humans. Not the same thing.

      L4H: "This isn’t evolution, but hereditary trait optimization. The species doesn’t change."

      Precisely. This is what Hitler was doing with his Lebensborn program. Breeding.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Was Hitler a christian? Yes. Fact. Too bad you don't like the facts.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • Tommy

      Live4Him apparently failed every science class he took after second grade.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • Tommy

      If there are only dogs then I guess dogs are wolves, or are wolves dogs?

      February 7, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • truth be told

      Those that knew hitler knew him as an atheist.
      So called atheists are know and proven liars. Their revisionist view of history is not a surprise.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Lie4the sake of lying
      Hitler believed in the master race. He had no information as to what consti tuted a master race, only traights HE thought were superior. Likely his endeavor would have ended in failure as it is impossible to have a perfect anything, let alone a perfect multibillion celled life form.
      The fact that he was using a property of evolution and bending it to his will, is more evidence that evolution is real, and going on all around us, everyday.

      Stop trying to twist reality to fit your fairy tale world. And Stop lying, you aren't fooling anyone.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Hawaii, I don't know if she's as much dishonest as willfully ignorant. If you wanted to be dishonest you wouldn't present two unrelated statements and just claim they had a conclusion. You'd find a way to write it out so it at least looked like an argument. I think she genuinely doesn't know, and doesn't want to know, the difference.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Akira

      Tbt, "those who knew him knew him to be an atheist"? Liar.
      Stop trying to re-write history to fit your twisted form of Christianity. Just. Shut. Up. And. Stop. Lying.
      You'll go to hell for it.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Saraswati – s/he knows exactly what s/he's doing.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

      February 7, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • Maybe

      In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him, "What's ICR?" Very funny. Look on your pay slip.

      Funny

      February 7, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @midwest, I don't know. I'm pretty sure I could create an argument that would help create such a wedge without looking comletely daft. What benefit ocould there be from presenting yourself as an uneducated fool who doesn't know the basic components of an argument?

      February 7, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      Of course Gullible4Him, TBT, & Chad lie for their "god". Just like the early apologists who ran out of ideas when faced with accusations that the gospels were copy-cat stories of earlier pagan stories. Satan made a pre-emptive strike to fool everyone they said.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      @Saraswati You need to remember that you're dealing with religious kooks here. These people wouldn't know a logical argument if it slapped them across the face.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • ME II

      "Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler's genocidal madness.

      Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry."
      ( http://archive.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/5277_52.htm )

      February 7, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • Austin

      common people.

      Hitlers belief in the master race, challenges the creation account that there is one human race. the Ademic race.
      He did not submit to any biblical form of living life.
      he was all in to evolution and superior scientific race. There is nothing in the bible that justifies any of this. He was an evil scientist.

      I cant tell you if he was an athiest, but calling him christian is slander, and even calling him religious is giving too much credit to that psycho killer. he qualifies by deed as a satinist.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • Austin

      Hitler fed his army meth. is the mexican drug cartel Christian?

      February 7, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • Science

      L4H really hates the DOVER TRIAL. ICR privite schools ! Not public. go figure.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Given the religious demographics of Mexico, it is highly probable that the Mexican drug cartel is riddled with chrstian death cult members.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • Austin

      Here you go......................was Judas Iscariot a Christian?

      A Christian is someone who is authentic, which you dont' even believe in anyway. God is the judge of who a christian is or is not. You should not hijack the word Christian, and give it to a false teacher, or hijack the word marriage for that matter. call it a civil union and a religious imposter and antichrist but as soon as you assualt God's definitions for words ,

      you are just insane. no one can reason with you its helpless you are deluded , your language is perverted.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      If the early apologists had been telling the truth, the point of an individual character in the screenplay becomes moot, now doesn't it?

      February 7, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • Bet

      he qualifies by deed as a satinist

      I don't cotton to that idea at all. If anything, Hitler was a Linenist.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      It looks like Austin's pus filled head is about to explode!

      Austin, if your (unproven) god is the judge of who a true christian is, why are you playing your god?

      February 7, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      Ah. The "Everyone is doing Christianity wrong except me" argument.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      I think he did insist on clean bedsheets, Bet.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Austin

      many just want to feel saved. there are sages to a persons spiritual life. because we struggle with flesh, only a mature Christian abides in the Word to live out

      love, joy , peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self control. This is the fruit of the spirit. This happens through the denial of the flesh really, and understanding God's word. attaining righteousness is a sign of devotion and is a life journey, not a spiritual high. it takes a real committment, to abide in the word and mind of christ comes to being a slave to the cross. some days are harder than others.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      No, you just have to be mentally ill, or a liar. Or both.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      Anybody else think it would be fun to watch Liv4Him and our resident theistic evolutionist Chad debate evolution?

      February 7, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      who is this Austin dude – fred Lite™?

      February 7, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Austin

      Everyone knows that in the book of Revelation, satan is the one who is persecuting the Jew's. Although they rejected messiah, no Christian is going to turn around and persecute Israel. why ? because we believe the old testament prophecies about the "day of the Lord, and the millineal kingdom, which is all about the fulfillment of gathering the literal spiritual Israel back into the earthly kingdom of the messiah.

      Calling hitler a christian is wicked, manipulative, slanderous ploy.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      Ah yes, revelation. The crazy man running around on an island. He overdosed on some myrrh one night and started screaming like Bobcat Goldthwait. Someone put a pen in his hand and said "tell us what you see".

      February 7, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • Bet

      @??lol

      Were they Satin or Sateen bedsheets? The Prince of Damask needs a high thread count.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • Logic Fail

      @ Austin, and all TRUE scottsman like haggis.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Hitler was raised as a christian and claimed to be a christian. Until your (unproven) god pipes up and says otherwise, by your own words, Hitler remains a christian.

      Claiming that christianity, or any religion, is true with absolutely no evidence is a wicked, manipulative, slanderous ploy.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Akira

      Common Austin. Not one of us here has claimed Hitler was a good Christian; he wansn't. But denying he was a Christian at all, and calling out the truth as slanderous, is just as dishonest as what L4H was doing.
      Face it. Hitler isn't the epitome of a good Christian, but he WAS a Christian, nonetheless.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Bet
      "@??lol
      Were they Satin or Sateen bedsheets? The Prince of Damask needs a high thread count."

      I wonder if that's how he got the nickname "Old Scratch"?!

      February 7, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • Logic Fail

      Hitler was an atheist, therefore God. <= Logically invalid.
      Hitler was a Christian, therefore no God. <= Logically invalid.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
    • Johnny Blammo

      Hitler was not a Darwinist; he was a Social Darwinist. Social Darwinism was a a pseudoscientific theory put forward by racists, not scientists, to legitimize their racism. There was no science behind it, and scientists quickly debunked it.

      You have to be a total idiot to not know the difference. Oh, it's Live4Him, one of our village idiots.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • Bet

      @ A Frayed Knot

      LOL! Almost peed my pants on that one...

      February 7, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      I'm catching up to what I missed on this. I have to assume that L4H was taken to the emergency room as a result of all the personal attacks by Saraswati. I guess even the Chupacabra is afraid of the Saraswati.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      correction: "personal attacks" (forgot the air quotes)

      February 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Oh dear…I certainly didn’t mean to frighten the mythical beasties.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:08 pm |
  7. Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III

    The songs from the 1971 album Sittin' In by Kenny Loggins and Jim Messina live on today. Anne Murray, of course, had a very successful cover of the song "Danny's Song". Also on that album, "House at Pooh Corner" was written by Loggins in high school. It was first performed by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, and has been covered many times since. Loggins released a beautiful newer version of the song in 1994 as "Return to Pooh Corner" for his children's music album by the same name (written for his third son).

    February 7, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • meifumado

      Odd selection today.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:33 am |
  8. ME II

    "The Guardian: Westboro Baptist church key member Megan Phelps-Roper leaves"

    Thank goodness!

    February 7, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • Saraswati

      Here's a link to their story. A good read for anyone who thinks they have all the answers:

      https://medium.com/reporters-notebook/d63ecca43e35

      February 7, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      ME II,

      Hooray for Megan!

      Her younger sister also left with her. Her older brother and her cousin left a couple of years ago. 20 members have left the cult since 2004.

      Shirley says, "I'm M–E–L–T–I–N–G!"

      February 7, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
  9. hippypoet

    Absurdity is the mindset of the believers mind. They produce absurd
    "evidence" to back up their absurd beliefs and then ask you absurd questions in
    order to show superiority to you for not believing as they do since they believe
    you could never answer those questions without the requirement of god. Its a poor stance to take but many do because they lack the ability to discern fact from fiction. Its arrogant, ignorant, and absurd!
    God is an idea! Such an improbable idea that many have, to make the idea inarguable, said that the idea is beyond human comprehension. By doing so the faithful remove the need but more importantly the ability to prove gods existence and so make it an untouchable notion of truth based on an idea. How is that different from being delusional? Believers hold fast to an idea of an improbable, incomprehensible, and untouchable nature as if it is fact!
    Until tangible evidence for the existence of god is discovered, the notion of god remains in the realm of ideas.
    And thats a factual statement!

    February 7, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • Robert Brown

      hippypoet

      Absurdity is the mindset of the atheists mind. They produce absurd
      "evidence" to back up their absurd beliefs and then ask you absurd questions in
      order to show superiority to you for not believing as they do since they believe
      you could never answer those questions without the requirement of no god. Its a poor stance to take but many do because they lack the ability to discern fact from fiction. Its arrogant, ignorant, and absurd!
      No God is an idea! Such an improbable idea that many have, to make the idea inarguable, said that the idea is beyond human comprehension. By doing so the atheists remove the need but more importantly the ability to disprove gods existence and so make it an untouchable notion of truth based on an idea. How is that different from being delusional? Atheists hold fast to an idea of an improbable, incomprehensible, and untouchable nature as if it is fact!
      Until tangible evidence for the non existence of god is discovered, the notion of atheism remains in the realm of ideas.
      And thats a factual statement!

      I don’t actually believe that about atheists I was just showing how easy your thought on belief can be put right back at you buddy. Believers are surrounded with evidence, we see God in everything we can perceive and wonder why others can’t.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • meifumado

      @Robert Brown
      "Believers are surrounded with evidence, we see God in everything "

      Please show us this evidence, Otherwise your beliefs are delusional.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      @ Robert Brown, I honestly mean this in a positive way. It must be nice to know everything. Not necessarily every little detail of the universe, but knowing how it all ends and having the answers to the important questions. Probably very comforting.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @lunchbreaker : knowing how it all ends and having the answers to the important questions. Probably very comforting.

      Actually, if you read scripture, we know LESS about after the end than we know during 'the course'. We even know very little about HOW it ends, even if we have read Revelation, Daniel, Malachi, etc. But, I would agree with you that it is comforting to know that these thing ARE known to someone much bigger than I am (and can understand all of it).

      February 7, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
  10. Doc Vestibule

    MORE CATHOLIC HYPOCRISY
    In 2009, a 9 year old in Brazil had to have an emergency abortion after her mother brought her to the hospital for complaining about severe stomach pains and discovered the girl was four months pregnant with twins. But after the procedure, instead of embracing the victim and offering to help the family, the Catholic Church excommunicated the doctor who performed the abortion and the girl’s mother.

    The Church did not excommunicate the ra.pist, her step-father.
    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1883598,00.html

    February 7, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • Which God?

      Doc, did you expect anything different? Women are still chattel, second class citizens. The step dad probably said that the girl consented. The priests, being what they are, probably agreed.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • Saraswati

      These religions continue to seal their own fate.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:17 am |
  11. bobk52

    Lionly Lamb You is not something new! So please stop ur madness.

    February 7, 2013 at 9:29 am |
  12. bobk52

    Lionly Lamb even a total retard knows about You Tube! Dont u?

    February 7, 2013 at 9:27 am |
  13. Atheism is Healthy for Everyone - Kids Too!

    Different kinds of fundamentalist Christians now as much as ever are arguing with each other with as much sense and rationality as a flock of chickens. They can't support their beliefs by any reasonable means, yet they deem themselves fit to judge others from those beliefs or attempt to put others in the midst of their religious infighting. Their beliefs have a very weak foundation and are not consistent, ergo the over 30,000 different denominations.

    Thomas Jefferson (POTUS #3, principle author of the Declaration of Independence)

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    John Adams (POTUS #2, Patriot of the American Revolution)

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    James Madison (POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights)

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    Thomas Paine (Patriot of the American Revolution)

    I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    February 7, 2013 at 9:07 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Christianity offers the Body of Christ – I have a connection for consecrated wafers and enjoy them with a bit of chipotle jam. Atheism offers nothing so substantial. Sorry, but we're working on it.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • Akira

      TTOO: or, as Dane Cook puts it, Christ Chex.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
  14. Topher

    Good morning, everyone! What shall we talk about today?

    February 7, 2013 at 9:01 am |
    • WASP

      @CHRIS-topher: price of rice in china. :)

      February 7, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • bobk52

      Who u murdered, Topher if that's ur real fake name!

      February 7, 2013 at 9:18 am |
    • Topher

      Who I murdered?

      February 7, 2013 at 9:24 am |
    • meifumado

      I dunno, guns in churches?

      February 7, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • Topher

      What would be the argument for that?

      February 7, 2013 at 9:54 am |
    • meifumado

      I'm hungover for the second day in a row, my head is killing me and I cant wait for the work day to end.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • meifumado

      No argument just your thoughts on it.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • Archie

      I hope it was not cheap beer to go with the chops, meif.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:58 am |
    • Topher

      I honestly can't think of a reason why I'd need a gun in church.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • truth be told

      @topher
      Good let the deranged atheist murder you first.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • just wondering

      Tell us about predestination as in Romans 8:30

      February 7, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • Robert Brown

      just wondering,

      God predestined the whole world to be saved. Yet some still reject him.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • meifumado

      I was drinking Stella with the chops, I went out after is what did it.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • meifumado

      TBT When was the last time an atheist went into a church to shot it up?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • Topher

      meifumado

      It's happened. I'm not too worried about it, though these days you never know ...

      February 7, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • meifumado

      Well if anything I would be more worried about disgruntled church members shooting the place up.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • Topher

      I'd think they'd have to be pretty disgruntled. For it to be a church member, they'd have to display that they were saved even to become a member. So if that's the case, they shouldn't believe in murder. In most cases when members have a complaint, they just start going to a different church.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      Robert, that is your opinion and there is no evidence that there is a god and even less that it has a plan.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Topher, how does a member display that they have been saved? Do they have to pass a test? Do they get a badge or secret handshake so that others know?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Topher

      HotAirAce

      Well, basically you'd sit down with the pastor and one of us deacons. We'll listen to your testamony and see if you display any of the fruits of the spirit. Then you'd be baptized.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Please describe these fruits of the spirit.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • meifumado

      What are "fruits of the spirit"?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Topher

      Galatians chapter 5 ... "22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

      February 7, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Topher

      They are basically some personality traits that people display after repenting and trusting the Savior.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Please be more definitive. What traits?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • Topher

      They're listed in the above Bible verse ...

      February 7, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      How do you measure those qualities?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • truth be told

      In the last 100 years atheist have shot up innumerable churches across the world. Another endearing quality atheists have displayed is their ability to lock entire congregations in a church then burn it down killing all inside. Under the reign of atheist adolf hitler many churches were attacked in Russia,Poland and Czechoslovakia.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • Topher

      Well, we see that you HAVE them, first. Then see which are new to you since becoming a Christian. You've heard the term "born again"? This is kind of a "test" for that. Jesus said you must be born again. That means after repentance and trust, you'll have a "new heart and new desires." You'll not be interested in committing those sins you used to love and will care about Godly things, learning about Him, reading His word, doing things for Him ...

      February 7, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      So you and your fellow (I bet there are no women involved in this) believer leaders make a subjective evaluation of who you let into your cult.

      - no proof of any god
      - no proof The Babble is the word of any god
      - you have to believe to believe
      - god is in your head
      - no objective criteria for membership

      Thanks for reinforcing my decision to remain sane.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Topher

      If you don't want to believe, that's fine. It's your decision. But why do you have to take the conversation into nastiness?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Akira

      I had a friend who was refused membership in a church because she had never spoken in tongues.
      Being saved wasn't the problem; she was. But, she was rejected because she couldn't speak in tongues.

      truth be told, you are again lying. Hitler was not an atheist. This has been proven to you again and again, yet you persist in lying. Why?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Topher

      See? This is why it's far more likely an atheist will open fire ... tons of anger.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • midwest rail

      "....far more likely an atheist will open fire. " A baseless assertion.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Nastiness? What nastiness? Nothing I could say or have said matches the nastiness of "burn in hell."

      February 7, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • truth be told

      I never lie, real history proves that hitler was an atheist. To a so called atheist it is an embarrassment to confront the Truths of mass murder yet they are there, not just with hitler but with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho and ALL the atheist despots that have ever ruled.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • Topher

      No one mentioned Hell. And when you start calling something I dearly love a "cult" and make a bunch of ridiculous accusations, that's nastiness. We were having a civil conversation and you had to go on the attack. And all I can say is "typical."

      February 7, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • meifumado

      The things you list as the fruits of spirit are all things that anyone religious or not can be.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Is it "nastiness" to assert that an atheist is far more likely to "open fire" when you've presented no evidence to support that assertion ?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Tommy

      Topher if you don't want nastiness then you will need to call out Truth be told every time he calls atheists liars and murderers. Or do you not consider that to be nasty?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I merely summarized the crap you provided and added other well known christian tenants. And grab a dictionary – all religions are cults.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • *

      * tenets (not tenants)

      February 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Topher

      Don't give us your self-righteous crap. If you were worried at all about "civil discourse", then talk about truth be told the perpetual troll of hate and bigotry. He even took a pot shot at you, yet you say nothing about it. You're only applying it to those who disagree about your god so you don't need to actually address any criticisms of something you merely assert.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Thanks for the spelling correction. I neglected to correct Apple. . .

      February 7, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Topher

      meifumado

      "The things you list as the fruits of spirit are all things that anyone religious or not can be."

      Very true. But there should be a demonstration of a change in the person.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Topher

      Tommy

      "Topher if you don't want nastiness then you will need to call out Truth be told every time he calls atheists liars and murderers. Or do you not consider that to be nasty?"

      I don't know Truth Be Told, nor have I ever talked with that person. And yes, he/she could be being nasty, but you have to realize my stance is that we are ALL liars and murderers. So it could be explained in a nasty way and that I would say is wrong.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Topher

      Still ignoring. Should I take that as the acceptance of your double standard bullshit? Should I assume that you see your own self-righteousness, and are merely scared to respond when someone actually calls you on it?
      Or are you just a pathetic tool with nothing to back anything you say up, so when challenged directly on the underlying issues you merely ignore it?
      I'm trying to understand here Topher. I really want to know how you can be so arrogant and self-righteous, yet claim humility and "truth".

      February 7, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Topher

      Also, even if someone else is being nasty that's no reason to attack me.

      And no, not all religions are cults. Not even according to a dictionary.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Topher
      All religions start as cults.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Topher

      So what shall we talk about next?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • Tommy

      The definition of cult is:

      A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

      Are you saying you have no veneration or devotion to god or Jesus?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Topher

      How about we talk about your double standards?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Topher, how do you know what the cause of any allegedly observed change was? As in how do you determine if the change was the result of believing in your imaginary friend? How do *know* anything about what your cult believes?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • End Religion

      The tail end of this conversation is interesting. There was another story on CNN not long ago, I think "jesus was a dirty god" or whatever. Someone had mentioned something I didn't realize before which is that evangelicals were moving more toward veneration of Jesus the person and less about veneration of God.

      If you go back and read the story you can (arguably of course) see exactly what he was talking about where the author was treading right on a line of making sure he didn't offend anyone yet leading the reader to a human Jesus. He says "jesus was a god" to placate the old school and then spends the rest of the story making him human.

      Not sure if the dirty jesus article was just pushing his book or if it is an overall shift to emphasize the "man of the people" Jesus as a person and less as a god. But if it is, it would be a bit of an ironic shift, since religion is often applied to veneration of a supernatural god whereas cult is often reserved for veneration of a person. In this case, it may be that evangelicals are heading even further back into cult territory.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
  15. hippypoet

    The Truth Less Answered
    Search for the truth everywhere,
    it is the unknown that we fear.
    The truth remains unknown no matter where you look.
    No amount of reading will give you what you seek,
    not in any book.
    In one considered special...
    it says the answers of life are for the meek.
    But again and again you read it never finding those answers you seek.
    Answerless, now you live life in the unknown.
    Acceptance being the only path to you,
    you hasten to learn the lesson shown.
    But alas you find the truth of acceptance is more then you knew,
    feeling failure – empty inside – your outsides turning blue,
    it is now alone you turn to others like you.
    In a group of like minded people,
    you find yourself with proofless answers singing in a church steeple.
    You come to realize that for these answers to be true you must believe.
    You think to yourself – a sign at the door – bodies welcome, minds must leave.

    February 7, 2013 at 8:57 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Lamp: "The fact is there just aren't enough facts."

      February 7, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Even faith is a gift from God, if we could say we believe because of something we did to believe, then we lie. God gave us faith. Seek and you will find.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:28 am |
  16. hippypoet

    Humanity's Progeny
    Unknown to any but her,
    the pain of the mother.
    The death of her son by Cain the brother.
    Now mourning his brother,
    who was like no other.
    His parents are speechless and then God takes over.
    He tells Cain after allowing him to remove the life,
    that he now must walk the earth.
    So Cain knowing fear fashions himself a knife.
    Leaving his family behind,
    he walks now unknowing of what he may find.
    His mother left there in the garden,
    now more of a prison for her mind.
    She questions Gods allowance of Cain,
    that which brought her so much pain.
    Adam tries but can not,
    so without answers she drives herself insane.
    the mother of mankind,
    has lost her mind.
    The father has always been,
    a creature of sin of his own philosophy,
    a power hungry creation.
    We are,
    if you choose to believe,
    the living progeny,
    of the original abomination.
    With the knowledge of truth the story becomes frayed.
    This must be considered before the choice is made.
    This is a mental death that which is insanity.
    Is this the wish you would make for all humanity?

    February 7, 2013 at 8:55 am |
  17. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Pray without ceasing in 2013
    Prayer changes things

    February 7, 2013 at 7:19 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      February 7, 2013 at 8:27 am |
    • == o ==

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      and many other names, but of course it's the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. "writer".

      February 7, 2013 at 8:40 am |
    • bobk52

      War is not healthy for children & other living things! I know this is a fact cause I coined the phrase in 1964. Yes I'm talking the talk & I walk the walk!

      February 7, 2013 at 9:23 am |
  18. lionlylamb

    THE NEXT GENERATION OF TRAFFIC ROAD SYSTEMS

    Magnetic levitation thru the magnetization of all trafficked surfaces, be they super highways or country roads or even the re-modifying of a train’s tracks should be subsidizations for any countries goals if they are to maintain equilibrium of steadfastly road structured revitalizations to keep an edge up on spiraling costs generated thru a slowed growth rate of continuing and ongoing non-magnet road constructions.

    The layout of any magnetized trafficking surface will not be the issues for constant repair states of today’s ever to be resurfaced nor will such a surface being magnetically based; need to undergo any re-structuring phases due wearing out issues.

    The changes to electromagnetic conditions will be made upon the super conducting trains or super conducting automobiles themselves, and just like our automobile economies having many variable ‘models’ so will the train cars themselves be of varying types and models of magnetic locomotion. 02/06/13

    February 7, 2013 at 7:00 am |
    • lionlylamb

      This circular track TOY is made up of magnetics and is approximately 1/20th the scale to real sizes. The circular path is the scaled toys mockup around 1/20th the sizes of the real road system. Therefore, the real TOY mockup of the road being an inch would be as 20 inches. There just may be a quantum rhythm to be scalar in quantifying the distances from toy to reality. 02/06/13

      One could theoretically have two different traffic flows going in opposite directions reducing the need for stopping due the heights of both the top and bottom of the magnet roadway/surface! Therefore, the levitation principle of super conducting materials at near zero degrees temperature wise would be upon the trains and automobiles themselves. 02/06/13

      February 7, 2013 at 7:02 am |
    • lionlylamb

      This infinity track of magnets is scale to 1/25th size of a real magnetic road surface. The use of a force generator pushes the 1/25th scaled to size automobile (super-conductive material). 02/06/13

      February 7, 2013 at 7:03 am |
    • lionlylamb

      This non-English video talks about superconductive magnetism and the futures of automobiles be they trucks and cars or cycles or even trains. 02/06/13

      February 7, 2013 at 7:05 am |
    • lionlylamb

      THE MAGNET BLOB OF OOZING FUN FOR ALL KIDS 02/07/13

      BUY IT AT http://simplyclevertoys.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=203

      February 7, 2013 at 7:07 am |
    • Chad

      Just like it happens in the celestial vibratory plane, opposing traffic flows with the appropriate electromagnetic vibrations should be able to pass through one another unimpeded. I'm not sure what the best phase angle is, but I have set up my Jetta with a variety of possibilities so I can try it out. I have reason to believe that red lights and other obstacles to progress do not apply to me because I am on the One True Path spoken of in the Bible.

      “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

      February 7, 2013 at 8:40 am |
  19. lionlylamb

    SPORTS CAR IS A SUBMARINE! 02/07/13

    February 7, 2013 at 6:59 am |

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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.