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February 7th, 2013
05:24 AM ET

Boy Scouts delay gay ban

The Boy Scouts are delaying a vote on lifting its ban on gay membership. Is the Mormon church behind the decision? CNN's Erin Burnett reports.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Mormonism

soundoff (301 Responses)
  1. Steve

    Gays, Libs, and Progressives cringe whenever they hear the word God uttered these days, and they hate it when someone points out what Paul said to the Romans in his epistle. But, nevertheless, here it is...in black and white.

    Romans 1: 24-32 (King James)

    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

    30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

    31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

    32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    For those of you who believe God changes over time, try taking quick peek at Hebrews 13:8.

    For those of you who don't believe in God at all, maybe it's time to go to Church for a change.

    February 7, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • Manny

      Paul was a conservative Pharisee Jew who never heard Jesus preach. That's just his personal bias shining through.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • tallulah13

      Steve: There is no evidence to support the existence of any god. Why don't you take a science class and learn why your myth-based prejudice is unnatural?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • catheryn

      Sir you have posted the truth about what the word of God said it is true to day as well as forever more, and you are right the (L,G,B,T) hate to hear what the word of God says,it is what it is. you can disagree all you want to the word of God is the Word of God. I am a God fearing person, I believe the word of God and try to do what it says.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Susan StoHelit

      Some have made a very solid case that many Christians follow Paul, rather than Christ. Christ preached tolerance and inclusion, Paul preached intolerance and exclusion.

      Paul added all kinds of things to the religion that Christ never said nor hinted at.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Bet

      Gays, Libs, and Progressives cringe whenever they hear the word God uttered these days,

      Who told you that? Your pastor? Do you really think that? How ridiculous.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • The Truth

      " they hate it when someone points out what Paul said to the Romans in his epistle."

      Why would anyone hate something that has as much relevance as a Brittany Spears biography? Your faith is hollow and based on lies, your religion is failing and falling faster than you can climb out of the disgusting hole that is organized religion. After it's execution your religion will not be missed.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • JWT

      Go to church ? Why would I want to? I have much better things to do with my time. Your version of a god may be important to you but it of no meaning and no value to me.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • sam stone

      Steve: You quote the words of Iron Age sheep molesters as if it were god's words.

      Catheryn: I find it amusing that people want to spend eternity with a being they fear.

      I am not a liberal, and I do not have any fear of your god.

      I have cousins who are devout believers. Some are quite conservative, some are quite liberal.

      To equate a belief in god with a political ideology is absurd. You just want to demonize people.

      That being said, fvck you both

      February 7, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • sam stone

      "I believe the word of God and try to do what it says"

      Really? Do you stone disobedient children? Do you eat shrimp? Do you wear mixed fibers?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Steve
      God is angry at these people for their apostacy – not so much the specific of hom/ose/xuality.
      Do you think He would be more forgiving if this group of folk engaged in a straight or/gy instead?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Jerry Fallswell

      Steve is 100% correct. For the uninformed there is no difference between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Paul. There is no debate, perversion is sin, sin leads to death. Repent, turn from your sin and be saved or perish in your ho mose xual immorality.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • sam stone

      Jerry: Yeah, repent so you can spend eternity with a petty pr1ck god

      February 7, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      @ Steve You are very stupid.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
  2. Helen Shepherd (Barbados)

    I am saddened to think that money would be deciding factor for the Scout Leasdership to bend their Morals. They should know that once they are in alignement with God's word, he WILL provide. I see this as a test of faith.

    February 7, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Ron

      Is the BSA an exclusively Christian organization? What if the Hindu gods, Lord Buddha, Liberal Jesus and whatever all the other boys believe in is OK with gays serving, or do you think they should all be kept out as well?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • sam

      Bah, it's always about money and always will be. If god doesn't like gays, I guess he should quit making them.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Saraswati

      Ron, they aren't Christian, but you have to believe in "God". No atheists or agnostics allowed, including non-theistic Buddhists or Unitarians. And these are the folks who get special federally mandated privileges.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      Are you saying the BSA gets government money?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:40 am |
    • Manny

      Nobody's stopping the evangelicals from forming their own organization like their threatening. Funny how they forget that there's a whole lot of America outside of the Bible Belt.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:40 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher, Yes, via the military in the Support Our Scouts act and by requiring schools and others to offer support, regardless of local anti-discrimination stands, via the Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act. End story, special treatment and forced local and federal support.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • Topher

      Manny

      They might. I hear there's already a few organizations out there — they just aren't well known. But what I think is more likely to happen is that the churches who support the troops will just disband them. I'd be curious to know what percentage of troops are supported by churches.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Why would any church disband their scout troop? Why wouldn't they just carry on as before?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Topher

      Assuming the BSA does what it was going to do and leave the decision up to the local group?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • sam stone

      Yeah, bigotry is so moral

      February 7, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Yes, assume local decision to continue discrimination.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
  3. Live4Him

    What if Catholics allowed openly gay priests?

    Would you feel comfortable sending your sons to the Catholic Church?

    February 7, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Rick

      Why not? Daughters have just as much chance being molested by straight priests, or pastors, and most Christians send them to church without a second thought.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • End Religion

      The honesty would be refreshing.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • For your info

      L4H
      Gay does not=pedophile
      Straight dues not exclude being a pedophile.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Really-O?

      @Live4Him –

      The Episcopal Church has accepted homosexual clergy since 1977 and I don't recall seeing media reports of debauchery and child rape among their ranks; that's pretty much become an earmark of the oh, so holy, RCC. Don't you find that interesting? Homophobic much?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Of course you should have a problem sending your sons to catholic school, but not because of gays. It's because of all the catholics and the incorrect information they will "teach" you about their mythical overlord.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Ron

      Priests targeted boys more because girls weren't allowed to serve at alter until recently, so there was little opportunity for them to be alone together. Besides, girls get pregnant, and their virginity use to be monitored more closely. Boys could be kept quiet through shame, making them better suited at keeping stuff on the down low.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • lol??

      Kids are reaching puberty at increasingly earlier ages. Has to be environmental like something in the food supply somebody experimented with to make more moolah. The shrinks haven't kept up with their definitions.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Manny

      Lol??
      It's the growth hormones in the milk! :-)

      February 7, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • Live4Him

      @Rick : Why not? Daughters have just as much chance being molested by straight priests

      This is a good point, but Catholic priests take a vow to celibate. Their goal is to seek to lead by godly example (not that they all do), whereas a gay leader could not advance such a claim. So, if the requirement of a 'godly example' were removed, would you feel comfortable with your children being alone with such a leader?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @For your info : Gay does not=pedophile

      Both them them are prohibited in Scripture. So, the question remains – would you feel comfortable having a leader teach values that oppose your own values?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Live4Him,

      If you sent your kids to scouts did you interview the scout leader on every issue of values? How do you know none of them supported same se'x marriage or for that matter differing politics or views on immigration or divorce? Ban divorded scout leaders? Any who support it? Have a 500 question "values" survey each one fills out for review by the parents? Do you know how your scout leaders feel about the death penalty and abortion? Birth control?

      What you're saying is there's something extra special offensive to you about ho'mos'exuality above all of your other values.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • lol??

      Gays are always gay first and everything else second.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Standard delusional idiocy from lol??. Baseless assertion, no facts. The Cowardly Liar is on a roll today.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • Fact

      Here one major problem, morons and idiot religious zealots like L4H think being "gay" means currently stuffing your genitals in someone elses butt. When told their children will have a "straight" teacher they do not immediately think of the teachers penis going in and out of a woman do they? Then why do the Christian perverts dirty minds immediately go there when the word "gay" is used? The word litterally means "one who is attracted to a person of the same gender" since it's modern definition is "One who is a h.om.ose.xual".

      The biggest hurdles reasonable humans face on this issue is ignorance, hate and misinformation.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • The Truth

      I think I am going to start treating all the Christians I know the same as they have been treating gay's. I will tell them that their life style is disgusting and makes my stomach turn. If one comes in for a job interview i'll make sure to find something wrong with their resume. The next Chistian wedding I see I will stand out front with a sign that reads "This Couple is Sick and plan to rub their genitals together tonight!!" If i'm forced to ever shake a Christians hand i'll tell them I love them as a person but hate their lifestyle and will go wash my hands immediately.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Fact, That's an interesting question. We know the militantly anti-gay religious folk do not react the same way to divorced teachers being with their kids or those who have had premarital se'x, despite the very explicit prohibitions. Yet these same folks react aggressively and with constant se'x references to the thought of gay, despite the obvious fact that most gay people aren't having se'x most of the time.

      It seems likely there's something going on in the brains of those who can't imagine gay people without picturing them having s'ex and imagining that all they do all day is talk about or have se'x. What I suspect is the paradoxical thoughts phenomenon. This is a well-known response where the more you try not to think about something the more it will stick in your mind:

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200402/mind-control-unwanted-thoughts

      My guess is that with those who have significantly worked to suppress any s'exual thoughts, this phenomenon is forcing those very thoughts front and center, making clear thinking on these issues difficult.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • lol??

      Typical sociopathic excuses.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • For your info

      Not that anyone but a christian cares what your fairytale scriptures say. I do not teach my children to discriminate against anyone and hope they would learn to respect their fellow humans. L4H the scripture that teaches JC's golden rule seems to be the one you missed or disregard. What would someone like you do if their child came out as gay, stone him/her?

      February 7, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • The Truth

      " L4H the scripture that teaches JC's golden rule seems to be the one you missed or disregard."

      The problem is that L4H and those like her don't consider gay's to be people so they don't have to treat them with decency and respect. Either that or L4H wants to be discriminated against if she is really treating others as she wants to be treated.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Why are you incapable of understanding the difference between hômosèxuality and pedophilia?

      February 7, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Jerry Fallswell

      Because there is no difference between pedophilia and ho mo se xuality.

      February 7, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Live4Him
      There is no such thing as an openly gay or openly straight priest becuase all priests take a vow of celibacy.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
  4. lol??

    55 and older communities are another symptom of the perversity in americult.

    February 7, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      I think you "accidentally" doubled up on your meds this morning

      February 7, 2013 at 11:22 am |
  5. ken

    Scouts Canada, what the organization is called up there, has been fully inclusive for a long time now and the world has not ended. Go figure?

    February 7, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • lol??

      There's a leap, figuratively.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • Perhaps....

      Canada does not have religious fvcktard freaks like Chad. The Chadtards see all evil but their own, silly how that works or just plain stupid.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • ¿¿lol

      A leap is when early apologists couldn't find a good excuse for holes in their story – like why the gospel stories appear to be plagiarized. Satan set it all up in advance they say. Now there's a leap.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • Saraswati

      Over 20% of Canadians are young earthers. Just because the numbers are slightly lower than here, don't think Canada is much different. They are maybe 10 years ahead in secularization, possibly a bit more due to our differing demographics...that's it. Everyone needs to be cautious and aware. And note, Chad doesn't even believe in young earth stuff...so there are probably a lot more in Canada with views similar to his.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • Rick

      I've lived all over Canada and the really hick places in Alberta have young earthers, and that's only close to the US border.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Saraswati

      Here's the Creation Science of Alberta link...centered in Edmonton:

      http://www.create.ab.ca/about-csaa/

      All I'm saying is don't get too comfortable or too confident.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:15 am |
  6. No Gingers

    I feel obligated to point out that when the children first join the cub scouts, their sxual orientation is probably still unlnown. By the time they become eagle scouts they probably know which way they swing, but a lot of children haven't really gotten the urges just yet. Now Gingers, on the other hand, we can see who they are. they look different. I'm sure you will all join me in keeping these little products of recessive genes out of the sun and the scouts!

    February 7, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • ken

      You mean redheads? Having red hair use to be something that people discriminated against, The devil and Judas supposedly had red hair, and were left-handed. They use to beat kids out of using their left hands up until not too long ago. This nonsense against gays is just as stupid.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:34 am |
    • tallulah13

      You probably have bland, boring, mousy brown hair and are jealous of the many vibrant shades of red hair that gingers can have. If you are that plain, you should dye your hair.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • lol??

      Kenster, Adam and Eve were both reds who gave you death.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • lol??

      Methinks no gingers can't remember anything about childhood.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • tallulah13

      Methinks Lol?? is a troll who lives in his mother's basement and wishes he had any hair at all.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • alias

      I think te way all thses replys avioded the real comment about children not being gay or straight, and going after the obvious sarcasm about gingers speaks volumes.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:49 am |
  7. Keith

    This is to all men and women God mad Adam God made Eve rather you believe it or not you can not impose the wickedly perverted gay life upon little upon boys if you want to destroy yourself. by means have a field day but leave the little children alone it's no surprise that the Latter day saints approves of the of the gay lifestyle

    February 7, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Keith", but "God" is an element of mythology, therefore your assertion is unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your unfounded assertion may represent truth is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      February 7, 2013 at 9:18 am |
    • hippypoet

      keith, your god and all other gods are all made up to help the populace come to ease with death so they could be motivated towards something productive. get over it.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The LDS hardly "approve" of hom/ose./xuality.
      They are trying to "love the sinner and hate the sin". Any Mormon who acts on their natural predilections will face condemnation, shunning, excommunication etc.
      They simply realize that the zeitgeist has changed and a majority of the population has abandoned the old prejudice against gay folk.
      The LDS has been through this before in the mid twentieth century with their insti/tutionalized racism.
      They are slowly recognizing the fact that the condemnation of gays will soon elicit the same sense of disgust that the memory of segregation does in most people.

      Furthermore, it's not like a child can be "taught" to be gay any more than a child can be "taught" to be a different race.
      It is not a learned behaviour, nor a transmissible disease.

      And what exactly do you think the "gay lifestyle" is?
      I mentioned last week some family friends of mine – a M to F trans couple – one of whom was a soldier for 20 years and the other a inner-city cop for 28 years. They live a quiet life together in a small town in Ontario. Their comminity loves them for all the charity work they do.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • ken

      Isn't it more the case that what other consenting adults do in their own bedrooms is none of your business, but that you have a superst.ition that it will bring you bad luck, supposedly because it somehow angers some mythical being? We should take you about as seriously as we would somebody calling for the elimination of all black cats.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • lol??

      hal 9001 is stuck in a loopy loop.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • lol??

      hal"s loop must have come from hippypoe.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • lol??

      It's a nutural pwogwession of events when the mob turns the gubmint into a god.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:23 am |
    • ¿¿lol

      It's an embarrassing "revelation" when apologists start plugging all the holes in their myth by blaming Satan.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • lol??

      The LDS knows the process of "grooming" young girls for polygamy.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • LinCA

      @Keith

      According to your fairy tale, your god made Eve from one of Adam's ribs. That would make her a biological male. Eve was the first transgender female. Your god must have been pretty liberal in regard to human sexuality.

      Since your god was so open minded about it, how did you cult fuck up so badly that it went against what its god approved?

      February 7, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • Live4Him

      @hal 9001 : Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE),

      Hal, your IEE is malfunctioning. Please shut it down.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Primewonk

      I'm sorry Keith, but your cobbled together version of a god was a scientifically ignorant putz. If he used a rib from Adam, the resulting creature would have the same DNA as Adam. This creature would have the same XY chromosome pattern as Adam and all males, instead of the XX chromosome pattern that women have. Your Eve was a dude. Adam was essentially boinking himself.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • tallulah13

      Keith, your religion is not a viable defense of discrimination. The simple fact is this: There is more evidence to indicate that homosexuality is innate and natural than there is evidence of the existence of any god. Your religion is the thing that is unnatural.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:12 am |
    • Science

      @Primewonk

      Hard to do but the truth aye.... still laughing !

      February 7, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • sam

      Idiot troll.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:38 am |
    • lol??

      Wonkster, if God can make a female out of One rib, he can surely just grab ONE chromosome and use it. Women will never understand men because they are doubled down on the X. They will never walk in the shoes of a Y carrier and all you'll ever hear is, "Why? Why?".

      February 7, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • sam stone

      God mad straights and gays. Shove your bigotry up your rectum

      February 7, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • sam stone

      Keith: If you want to live your bible sucking sycophantic lifestyle, have at it, but do not corrupt little kids with it.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
  8. Atheism is Healthy for Everyone - Kids Too!

    Different kinds of fundamentalist Christians now as much as ever are arguing with each other with as much sense and rationality as a flock of chickens. They can't support their beliefs by any reasonable means, yet they deem themselves fit to judge others from those beliefs or attempt to put others in the midst of their religious infighting. Their beliefs have a very weak foundation and are not consistent, ergo the over 30,000 different denominations.

    Thomas Jefferson (POTUS #3, principle author of the Declaration of Independence)

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    John Adams (POTUS #2, Patriot of the American Revolution)

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    James Madison (POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights)

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    Thomas Paine (Patriot of the American Revolution)

    I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    February 7, 2013 at 9:08 am |
    • lol??

      Flag wrapping? Not everyone was thrilled with the socialist who was disguised as a Baptist, making a fortune on selling flags and then manipulatin' a pledge out of the citizens.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:50 am |
  9. Chad

    God does not specify a sex act as an abomination. In fact women may receive their husbands in many ways. Sex within the same gender is abhorrent to God.

    Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

    February 7, 2013 at 8:59 am |
    • obviously

      Many Christians feel differently than Chad. some will even marry a gay couple where legal:

      -Washington National Cathedral
      -Evangelical Lutheran Church of America
      -United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ was the first mainstream Christian church to fully support same-s ex marriage and perform marriage ceremonies.
      -Jewish: Reform Judaism embraces same-se x marriage and rabbis can perform ceremonies.
      -Quaker: The willingness to perform gay marriages varies by meetinghouse, but there is some acceptance and performance of same-se x marriages among Quakers.
      -Metropolitan Community Church
      -Unitarian Universalist

      February 7, 2013 at 9:04 am |
    • Saraswati

      Yep, the Christian god apparently much prefers men who offer up their daughters to be ra,ped. Lovely belief system.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:08 am |
    • Live4Him

      @obviously : Many Christians feel differently than Chad. some will even marry a gay couple where legal

      By definition, a Christian is a follower of the teachings of Christ. So, if someone blatantly disregards His teachings, is that person a Christian?

      February 7, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • ken

      Chad
      Eating a lobster is also an "abomination" to God, and he supposedly doesn't like tattooing and hundreds of other things either. I know that you're going to give some lame explanation that Christians aren't bound by Old Covenant Law, but nobody has ever given me a good explanation as to how Christians can cherry pick which Jewish laws to obey.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Live4Him, Even if Christ were himself found uncontroversially to have said hom'ose’xuality were evil (which is by no means non-controversial), what would you call a person who agreed with only 99.9% of Christ's teachings....do they need a new name? Someone who agrees with only 99% of the Buddha's teachings? 99% of Marx's teachings? Because I see the term "Marxist" thrown around a lot for people who are just run of the mill communists. Freudians? Platonists? Must all Aristotelians maintain Aristotle's incorrect belief about how many teeth a woman has? A Thomist believes every single word Thomas Aquinas said?

      Maybe it's a bad idea to have beliefs named after people (almost certainly is), but we have long done it and no one has required a test of 100% compliance on beliefs to continue to use these terms as useful summaries of what people believe. Perhaps you want to introduce this 100% rule, but it flies in the face of human language and tradition. You can argue that Christianity is different because it believes that Christ is god and infallible, but that itself raises the question of whether those beliefs must be included. You are using a theological position which assumes your own correctness as a premise.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • Simon Peter

      I was in the jesus troop with eleven other guys. We did a lot of things together and jesus being our leader would give out merit badges if we pleased him. I got the most merit badges because I swallowed but my butt hole was always sore. Chad being the arrogant tool that he is would probably beat me out/off?

      February 7, 2013 at 10:31 am |
    • PC

      All sinners are called to repentance including gays and lesbians.
      God forgives all sinners.
      Why live a sinful lifestyle when there is healing and forgiveness granted by God almighty?

      February 7, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • End Religion

      Evidently one is not Christian *unless* one disregards Christ's teachings. Westboro may be the only actual Christian church left in the U.S.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • Chadwatch

      Chad
      "nor thieves nor the greedy" you just eliminated most of the hierarchy of the RCC and almost the whole group of the TV evangies. If you included the pompous and arrogant, you would shut yourself out,

      February 7, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • Brian

      Since they have proven that you can't change a person from being gay, there is a biological component to it, then there is NO way their relationships are immoral. So Chad everything you are quoting has nothing to do with gays and lesbians.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Really-O?

      @obviously – Let's not forget the Episcopal Church.
      @Saraswati – People like Chad and Live4Him do not see things in shade's of grey; that requires measured thought which makes categorizing things into "us or them" much more difficult.
      @End Religion – Hahahahaha!
      @Chad – how's it going, bigot?

      February 7, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • tallulah13

      PC, it really doesn't matter that your religion says that homosexuality is a sin. Evidence indicates that homosexuality is innate and natural.

      On the other hand, there is no evidence to support the existence of any god. Why would anyone chose to believe in something for which there is no proof when reality is much more interesting and compelling?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Rick Farmington

      Evidence indicated gay is innate and natural, Care to shed some light on this 'evidence' you have come up with?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • tallulah13

      Do your own homework, Ricky. Google is a great place to start. Look for peer-reviewed scientific studies from neutral scientific journals.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • Bet

      In fact women may receive their husbands in many ways.

      Chad's wife wants to receive him in a marble urn.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Rick Farmington

      Google search for evidence? what a pathetic wimp you are!

      February 7, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Gee, sorry Ricky. I had to go to work and didn't realize that you were incapable of doing anything for yourself. My mistake.

      February 8, 2013 at 11:15 am |
  10. wwajdblogger

    The BSA may have made a few changes to previous policies that social norms ultimately rejected - like anti-union sentiment, racial segregation and discrimination, and militarism - but social convention is no reason to change a policy. American Jesus (www.whatwouldamericanjesusdo.com) would reject gay people and anyone else who has ever had immoral thoughts or commited a sin.

    February 7, 2013 at 8:50 am |
    • End Religion

      As long as we're making wild assertions, it is clear to me AJ would wave a finger to bring your pathetic blog down then karate chop you in the balls.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:44 am |
  11. Saraswati

    None of this would be a problem if the Boy Scouts weren't given federally mandated special privileges. Local school districts that tried to keep discriminatory groups from using schools were doing just fine until congress decided you could exclude the Klan or any other discriminatory groups, but not the Scouts...so essentially the public schools are forced to support these groups. As long as we as a country are giving special rights to one discriminatory group over another, we have a problem.

    February 7, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • lol??

      Da gubmint god knows all, sees all, controls all.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:46 am |
  12. .

    261 Ministers Proclamation

    As Christian clergy we proclaim: the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm- that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace- the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare- that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate- the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity, especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church..
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    YeahRight
    Marriage was defined by the US Supreme Court as a civil right. Recognized federal civil rights law in the United States is grounded in the U.S. Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. By this standard, marriage has long been established as a civil right.

    The operative constitutional text is section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which was ratified in 1868. The relevant passages read as follows:

    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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    . Elaine
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    In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

    Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted rape of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterosexuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were homosexuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

    So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and rape, mainly by heterosexuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same sex, and homosexuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against homosexuality in general is like comparing rape to marriage. There is NO similarity!

    The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions homosexuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

    Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

    Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

    Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

    Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

    Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

    Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
    you. . ."

    Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

    Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

    Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

    Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

    II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

    Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – sexual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

    The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a sexual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterosexual practicing homosexual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since sex with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the sexual act.

    Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to homosexuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

    This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray homosexuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral homosexuals, just as there are immoral heterosexuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

    Our sexuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterosexual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

    When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned homosexuality. I believe that was because homosexuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

    "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

    This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

    We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of homosexuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

    So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.
    "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16
    If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

    If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

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    .YeahRight
    Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

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    .
    .
    .YeahRight
    Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

    Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

    A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

    Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

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    .John
    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

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    YeahRight

    Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
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    .Brent

    Religion-based bigotry is the foundation of anti-gay attitudes in our society and in the minds of a majority of Americans, particularly persons of faith. The term religion-based bigotry was coined because it best fits the description of the problem. The term religion-based bigotry encompasses the attitudes of prejudice, hostility or discrimination that are falsely justified by religious teachings or belief. We will never see full and equal rights unless we address the root of people’s anti-gay attitude.

    Religion-based bigotry is not synonymous with bigotry. It is a uniquely vile form of bigotry as the prejudice, hostility and discrimination behind the words are given a moral stamp of approval.

    Faith in America’s core message is that religious-based condemnation and rejection of LGBT people cause great harm to LGBT individuals and our society.

    We have learned that when we focus on the harms caused by religious hostility toward gay people – its destructive role in the lives of gay and lesbian Americans and explaining that being gay is not a lifestyle choice but is how you are born– persons of faith can understand why religion must no longer be misused to justify hostile attitudes and actions toward LGBT people.

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    .James
    .
    As usual, Bob is wrong again. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.

    ..
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    .YeahRight

    Again, you're a proven liar, Bob. We've pointed out over and over again you are using reports from well-known hate groups that the experts in this country have proven are false. The experts have stated that heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

    Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

    A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

    Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

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    Erik

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.

    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

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    .Don

    The most beautiful word in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "whosoever." All of God's promises are intended for every human being. This includes gay men and lesbians. How tragic it is that the Christian Church has excluded and persecuted people who are homosexual! We are all created with powerful needs for personal relationships. Our quality of life depends upon the love we share with others; whether family or friends, partners or peers. Yet, lesbians and gay men facing hostile attitudes in society often are denied access to healthy relationships. Jesus Christ calls us to find ultimate meaning in life through a personal relationship with our Creator. This important spiritual union can bring healing and strength to all of our human relationships

    Biblical Interpretation and Theology also change from time to time. Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did!

    Genesis 19:1-25

    Some "televangelists" carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of "homosexuality." Although some theologians have equated the sin of Sodom with homosexuality, a careful look at Scripture corrects such ignorance. Announcing judgment on these cities in Genesis 18, God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham's nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that "all the people from every quarter" surround Lot's house demanding the release of his visitors so "we might know them." The Hebrew word for "know" in this case, yadha, usually means "have thorough knowledge of." It could also express intent to examine the visitors' credentials, or on rare occasions the term implies sexual intercourse. If the latter was the author's intended meaning, it would have been a clear case of attempted gang rape. Several observations are important.

    First, the judgment on these cities for their wickedness had been announced prior to the alleged homosexual incident. Second, all of Sodom's people participated in the assault on Lot's house; in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual. Third, Lot's offer to release his daughters suggests he knew his neighbors to have heterosexual interests. Fourth, if the issue was sexual, why did God spare Lot, who immediately commits incest with his daughters? Most importantly, why do all the other passages of Scripture referring to this account fail to raise the issue of homosexuality?

    Romans 1:24-27

    Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.

    This raises the question: Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? The book of Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.

    The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.

    What is "Natural"?

    Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.

    I Corinthians 6:9

    Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts. In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations.

    The first word – malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.

    The second word, Arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy (1:10), but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain. Scripture Study Conclusion…No Law Against Love

    The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . against such there is no law. One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14: "...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".
    ..
    .Sarah

    Let me make one thing clear: being gay is not wrong. It is not unnatural. It isn’t immoral or gross or something that should provoke disgust. What is wrong, what is unnatural, what is immoral and what is gross is intolerance and discrimination against fellow human beings for their sexual orientation and active pursuit of preventing loving and committed homosexual couples from legally being married.

    I believe in God, and I identify as a Christian, and this identity as a Christian has provided me with the insight to know that people who oppose gay marriage based on “religious reasons” are just making excuses for their homophobia. The idea that homosexuality is sinful is a farce. The Bible never actually condemns homosexuality. You know what the Bible does condemn?

    Winking. “He who winks is plotting perversity.” Proverbs 16:30

    Rounded haircuts. “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.” Leviticus 19:17

    Tattoos. “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you.” Leviticus 19:28

    It is unacceptable that some modern Americans think it’s alright to toss rules like these aside and yet still vehemently oppose marriage rights for homosexual couples.

    As a Christian, I’ve been taught to love my neighbor. Somehow, active public discrimination against homosexuals and barring fellow human beings from marriage rights does not seem very loving or neighborly to me.

    Homosexuality isn’t a disease: it’s an innate way of being.

    Nobody is going to “catch” gay.

    Nobody is going to be “cured” of their homosexuality.

    Sexual orientation is personal and affects nobody but the individual and is absolutely not the business of anybody but the individual.

    The fact that people continue to suggest otherwise and perpetuate this idea that homosexuality is wrong and attempting to make outcasts of people who identify as gay is unbelievably disgusting and frightening and old-fashioned.

    It’s 2012, and we should have come much further than this by now.

    This matters. This is an issue that, if left unfixed, tacitly permits discrimination and harassment.

    The prevalence of anti-gay messages encourages bullying and hate crimes, and there are literally confused, hurt, frightened young people who actually kill themselves over issues like this — and yet people still insist upon calling homosexuality a sin.

    The cruelty and hypocrisy is infuriating and unacceptable.

    It needs to stop.

    Until marriage equality is legal in all fifty states, I hope Americans will have the courage to end hatred and homophobia.

    February 7, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • lol??

      "2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"

      February 7, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Brian

      They aren't speaking evil, it looks like they are speaking facts. The bible is pure fiction and is not relevant to civil rights.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:55 am |
  13. truth be told

    The "healthy" history of atheism
    Atheists have brutally tortured and murdered more people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries. If mass murder is your idea of health care then atheism is perfect for you.

    February 7, 2013 at 8:29 am |
    • Pete

      You are a parrot, just repeating nonsense. It wasn't atheism idiot, it was totalitarianism.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:32 am |
    • == o ==

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      and many other names, but of course it's the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. "writer".

      February 7, 2013 at 8:38 am |
    • ken

      You mean dictators, including the Christian ones like Hitler and the Muslim ones like Saddam Hussein, have killed a lot of people over the past 100 years, right? Before that, it was the Russian Tzars and Chinese Emperors who killed thousands of their own people, just like how Christian America nearly wiped out our native peoples. Before that, the Inquisition, witch hunts, the Crusades and other shining moments of Christian peacefulness. Try to get your history straight.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • truth be told

      You are lying ken and you either do not know it or stupidly think you can fool decent people into believing you(you can't). Truth be told hitler was an atheist. When examining all others closely you will also see the mark of the atheist on all those perpetrators as well.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • End Religion

      TBT dreams of "examining closely" all these world leaders. He first checks for '666' tattoos on their balls. Taint that the truth!

      February 7, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Ron

      Hitler may not have been a ver nice Christian, but was no atheist. The Nazis thought they were going God's work in killing Jews. If anything, Hitler thought he was continuing Martin Luthor's work. Now there was a German who really hated Jews. Makes you proud to be a Protestant, eh?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • tallulah13

      Obvious troll is obvious. And redundant.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • truth be told

      Sorry ron, hitler also hated Christians and murdered as many as he could. hitler did "use" the belief systems of the germanic peoples against them and as any atheist his first line of defense and exhortation was to lie. hitler by those that knew him best was an atheist.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      tbt, What evidence do you have for Hitler being an atheist. As you know every time you post this, other posters provide quotes from Hitler's own writings saying he was christian.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • truth be told's psychiatrist

      We apologize once again for the lack of sedation of truth be told, we sincerely hope you ratify the situation soon to keep 'it' society safe from it. in the process we ask that you please disregard 'its' rantings for what they truly are-a direct symptom of religious psychosis.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • truth be told's psychiatrist

      you=to

      February 7, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Ron

      truth be told
      Nope, try again. Any Christians that Hitler systematically killed were Christian Allied soldiers and gays.

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNN-M4wMbT4&w=640&h=390]

      “The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement)
      was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.”

      [Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]

      “I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
      Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”

      [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

      “I have followed [the Church] in giving our party program the
      character of unalterable finality, like the Creed. The Church has
      never allowed the Creed to be interfered with. It is fifteen hundred
      years since it was formulated, but every suggestion for its
      amendment, every logical criticism, or attack on it, has been
      rejected. The Church has realized that anything and everything can be
      built up on a docu.ment of that sort, no matter how contradi.ctory or
      irreconcilable with it. The faithful will swallow it whole, so long
      as logical reasoning is never allowed to be brought to bear on it.”

      [Adolf Hitler, from Rauschning, _The Voice of Destruction_, pp. 239-40]

      “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
      fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
      by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
      summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest
      not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
      and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord
      at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the
      Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight
      against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with
      deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact
      that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As
      a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have
      the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is
      anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is
      the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty
      to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and
      work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only
      for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning
      and see these men standing in their queues and look into their
      pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very
      devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two
      thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people
      are plundered and exposed.”

      [Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a
      political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on
      his personal Christian feelings.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
  14. ken

    So, boys who joined the organization as a seven year old cub, kids who don't know how they're oriented yet for sure, can go through the whole program and be prime candidates for taking leadership roles only to be turned down because of this? Isn't the organization then teaching that being gay is wrong, as opposed to concerns that kids shouldn't be "exposed" to the subject to early?

    February 7, 2013 at 8:23 am |
    • End Religion

      Yep, check this story out (take the dot out of 'petitions')
      http://www.change.org/peti.tions/boy-scouts-don-t-let-your-anti-gay-policy-deny-my-son-his-eagle-award

      February 7, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • ken

      Must be how blacks and women use to feel in the military. Serve up through the ranks, taking all the abuse, only to be denied leadership roles. What a shame!

      February 7, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
  15. ronvan

    For me, it is not about being gay/lesbian. It is about something being "forced" upon me! There are so many "groups", small & large, that expect and demand that THEIR way of life, beleifs, etc., MUST be accepted, and if not, then WE are at fault!? Things start out small and then like a snowball rolling downhill, gain momentum and become a "major crusade", about being recognized, accepted, without any consideration of others!

    February 7, 2013 at 8:11 am |
    • ken

      Yeah, like blacks, hispanics, women, the handicapped and left-handed people. Why should we be forced to be around this kind of stuff, right?

      February 7, 2013 at 8:14 am |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      You aren't required to accept anything. However, You cannot discriminate against someone based on orientation. When you do, that is where your rights end.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:34 am |
    • No Gingers

      Don't forget gingers.
      I don't think we have to go out and stone them all to death, at least not right away, but i don't want those soulless things in my neighborhood!

      February 7, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • tallulah13

      Sort of like churches, ronvan. Why do religious people think that their faith is above criticism? There is no proof of any god, so why should a religion get any more consideration than, say, bigfoot hunters?

      Why are there debates about the beliefs of our political candidates? Wouldn't it be wiser to focus on their policies and previous behaviors? Why do religious people try to distort science to suit what they want it to say, then try to force it onto children? Why do religious people try to force their beliefs onto organizations like the Boy Scouts? Why can't christians have any consideration of others?

      February 7, 2013 at 11:29 am |
  16. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Pray without ceasing in 2013
    Prayer changes things

    February 7, 2013 at 7:18 am |
    • Dontfirebombme

      Atheism is healthy for all free thinking people of all ages. Blind faith in a particular bible is unhealthy.

      Cease praying in 2013. It changes nothing.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:08 am |
    • ken

      If prayer did change things then yours should have been answered in 2012, but here you are ... again.

      February 7, 2013 at 8:16 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      February 7, 2013 at 8:27 am |
    • == o ==

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      and many other names, but of course I prefer to refer to this extreme homophobe as
      the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. "writer".

      February 7, 2013 at 8:38 am |
  17. The breakfast club

    There have always been gay people in scouts. Now people are conversing about it. That is all that has changed.

    February 7, 2013 at 6:31 am |
    • lol??

      They wanted the gubmint to stay out of their bedrooms and now the pup tents. It's a natural unnatural pwogwessive desire.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:54 am |
  18. Douglas

    If you watch a "gay pride" parade with its obligatory nudity and simulated acts of coitus...you begin to see why
    we cannot allow gay scout leaders to provide moral training to young boys.

    The only option the BSA has is to vote NO. Case closed.

    February 7, 2013 at 6:06 am |
    • %$#@%$#@

      Google boy scouts se-x offenders list before joining a troop.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:32 am |
    • sam stone

      Still obsessed with gay coitus, are ya Doogie?

      February 7, 2013 at 6:32 am |
    • sam stone

      If you really mean "case closed", Doogie, can we expect that this is the last comment you will make on the subject? Or, do you still have memories of those bath houses?

      February 7, 2013 at 6:37 am |
    • ken

      Douglas
      "coitus"?

      So, you're Dr. Sheldon Cooper?

      February 7, 2013 at 8:12 am |
    • == o ==

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      and many other names, but of course I prefer to refer to this extreme homophobe as
      the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. "writer".

      February 7, 2013 at 8:39 am |
    • End Religion

      Doug still desires to officially earn the Pickle Smuggling Badge after all his hard work toward it.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • tallulah13

      Dougie hates himself so much that he wants other people to hate themselves, too.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • Saraswati

      Yeah, because in all the many countries that *do* allow gay scout leaders we have seen nothing but naked pareds and simulated coitus.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:33 am |
  19. Bootyfunk

    well, guys, should we remain a prejudiced, h.omophobic organization even in the face of evidence, like the APA saying h.omos.exuality is normal? hmmm... how else can we pass on our fear of g.ays to the youth? man, this is gonna be a tough vote...

    February 7, 2013 at 5:47 am |
    • lol??

      Somebody sayin' sumpin is evidence? You argue against that all day long, 'specially when it comes to the True God.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:49 am |
  20. Colin

    The belief that an infinitely old, all-knowing sky-god, powerful enough to create the entire Universe and its billions of galaxies, chose a small nomadic group of Jews from the 200 million people then alive to be his "favored people" provided they followed some rural laws laid down in Bronze Age Palestine equals Judaism.

    Judaism PLUS a belief that the same god impregnated a virgin with himself to give birth to himself, so he could sacrifice himself to himself to negate a rule he himself made equals Christianity.

    Christianity PLUS a belief that the secrets of the Universe were revealed to a failed conman in upstate New York through ancient texts interpreted through sacred "seer stones," that aliens from other planets mated with humans who will one day be gods, that post mortem baptisms send people to a heaven, that the Israelis colonized America and that magic underwear will protect you from evil equals Mormonism.

    I guess Mormons take the gold for utterly stupid beliefs. One can imagine Brigham Young standing on a pedestal, accepting his medal and humbly proclaiming, “If my beliefs are even more ridiculous than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants”.

    February 7, 2013 at 5:34 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      hola, Colin.
      religion sure is silly.
      the bible mentions unicorns about seven times. also satyrs and dragons. a talking snake and a talking donkey. men with wings. all kinds of silly fairy tale mumbo jumbo.
      it's hard to reason with people that believe in magic.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:50 am |
    • Science

      Sorry CREATION LOST.Colin

      EVOLUTION IN A TEST TUBE Jan. 30 2013

      News Release

      3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)

      University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube

      Thanks Doc.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:23 am |
    • ken

      Colin
      You know the joke, that God created Mormons so the Christians would realize how Jews feel about their religion being "improved"? :-)

      If anything, Mormonism proves Karma.

      February 7, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • Saraswati

      I'm pretty sure L. Ron Hubbard will be standing higher on that pedestal. Space aliens and volcanoes?

      February 7, 2013 at 9:47 am |
    • Which God?

      Oooh, Saraswati. Point. Set. Match.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • hankhhh

      Satan king of the gays. Gays don't like the Bible because it speeks. The truth. The devil don't like the Bible either. .the devil. And gay people have a lot incomin. I wonder why.maybe its because they have something together.non beleavers.I rebuke you Satan. And gays you will see the truth when you die from aids.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • Bet

      @ hankhhh

      And gay people have a lot incomin.

      There you go again, always with the gay coitus.

      Oh, wait, never mind. You're just stupid.

      February 7, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.