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Catholic Bishops not satisfied with Obama’s contraception compromise
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops on Thursday rejected the Obama administration’s revised mandates on contraception.
February 7th, 2013
03:34 PM ET

Catholic Bishops not satisfied with Obama’s contraception compromise

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops does not support the Obama administration’s revised proposal for providing insurance coverage for contraception, saying it falls short of addressing concerns about religious freedom.

In a response to the policy update announced last week by the Department of Health and Human Services, the church leaders said the policy offers “second-class status to our first-class institutions in Catholic health care, Catholic education and Catholic charities.”

“Because the stakes are so high, we will not cease from our effort to assure that healthcare for all does not mean freedom for few,” Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, president of the conference, said in a statement. “We will continue to stand united with brother bishops, religious institutions, and individual citizens who seek redress in the courts for as long as this is necessary.”

Although the bishops identified the changes as a step in the right direction, they made it clear that they were not satisfied.

The proposed guidelines would allow religious-affiliated organizations opposing contraception to opt out of a federal mandate requiring that they provide their employees with insurance coverage for birth control.

The policy would give women at non-profit, religious-based organizations, like certain hospitals and universities, the ability to receive contraception through separate health policies at no charge.

CNN Belief: Obama proposal would let religious groups opt-out of contraception mandate

Following an uproar among religious institutions that didn't want to pay for contraceptives, the administration in March offered several compromise alternatives. The plan unveiled on Friday was a result of that effort.

The proposed update continued the administration's attempts to resolve the contentious issue of how non-profit organizations can decline to provide contraception coverage to their employees on religious grounds without facing a penalty.

An original mandate on providing contraception was part of the new federal healthcare law spearheaded by Obama, the Affordable Care Act. It required that insurers provide, at no cost to those insured, all forms of contraception approved by the Food and Drug Administration.

A number of high profile lawsuits have been filed against the federal government on the issue, including from the craft store giant Hobby Lobby.

CNN Belief: Hobby Lobby faces millions in fines for bucking Obamacare

A group of 43 Catholic organizations challenged the rules in federal court in May.

In Thursday’s announcement, Dolan also said the change in policy showed a “disregard of the conscience rights of for-profit business owners.”

As part of the new initiative, groups that are insured - such as student health plans at religious colleges - would be required to let their insurer know that certain participants would like contraception coverage.

“The insurer would then notify enrollees that it is providing them with no-cost contraceptive coverage through separate individual health insurance policies,” the HHS statement on the policy said.

Although the agency has not estimated final costs of the plan, it said that offering free coverage would actually lower expenses over the long term, partly due to improvement in women's health and fewer childbirths.

CNN Belief: Catholic groups sue over federal contraception mandate

Because the insurer would be covering the costs, the administration hoped the changes would allow religious organizations morally opposed to contraception to avoid paying for it.

The updated rules proposal will be open for public comment through April 8. The administration would then decide whether to make it final.

The Catholic Bishops indicated in their statement that they look forward to working with the administration on the final policy.

“We welcome and will take seriously the administration’s invitation to submit our concerns through formal comments, and we will do so in the hope that an acceptable solution can be found that respects the consciences of all,” Dolan said.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Bishops • Catholic Church • Health care • Politics

soundoff (482 Responses)
  1. alias

    Do you devout Christians believe that if you had been bormn into a Muslim household you would very probably be worshipping Alah?
    If you had been born to atheist parents you would very likely be thinking about religion and probalby not accept the bible?

    Most of you are only Christians because you were told to believe from a very young age and you find comfort in those beliefs?

    February 8, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      This is often repeated and probably statistically true. Most people remain close to the culture they are raised in. It ignores the vast numbers of converts to and from different belief systems though

      February 8, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • Terry

      Bill, grow some balls and stop hedging.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Or else what big man?

      February 8, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Bill Deacon

      You said, "It ignores the vast numbers of converts to and from different belief systems though"
      Different belief systems come down to differences in believing how the Easter Bunny lays eggs, not whether it lays them.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Granted Lin. For clarification, I would include the various iteration of non-belief as systems. Otherwise, we could not explain the numbers of folks who have rejected their cultural religious environments for atheism or agnosticism.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Bill Deacon

      You said, "For clarification, I would include the various iteration of non-belief as systems. Otherwise, we could not explain the numbers of folks who have rejected their cultural religious environments for atheism or agnosticism."
      There is a major difference between moving from one religion to another, and moving from believing to not believing. Once the spell is broken, I suspect it is permanent (save for the loss of faculties). I rarely, if ever, see children revert back to believing in the Tooth Fairy once they realize it doesn't exist.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
  2. olepi

    The Church had their chance, and blew it, badly. Decades of systematic child molestation, complete with massive coverups, transfers, and BILLIONs in payments, has ruined any chance I would listen to anything the Church has to say.

    Child predators have little credibility to speak.

    February 8, 2013 at 11:07 am |
  3. Steve - Texas

    Who really cares what these old pedophiles in dresses think?

    February 8, 2013 at 10:57 am |
  4. Gary Street

    It is too bad the bishops don't use that same energy and time to deal with the pedophilia within their own priesthood. They seem more concerned about preventing women from regulating their bodies than they are about the lifetime of harm priests have caused by the many acts of pedophilia.

    February 8, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • jwold

      Well, if birth control is used, less little boys to abuse..no wonder they are against it

      February 8, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      How many?

      February 8, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Right on

      Bill Deacon
      How many what? Are you asking how mant bishops, priests and deacons were involved in s8x abuse? I do not think they broke that down into numbers, why don't you do the research and let us know?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      I've done it many times from various sources. I think when someone makes a claim they should have to back it up. Don't you?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Right on

      What claim are you talking about? The LA docu-ments have stated that there were 192 bishops, priests and deacons implicated in the abuse scandal, but did not break the numbers down. If the number is wrong , that is the one I saw in the media, maybe I wasn't clear?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Between 1950-2007 there were 109,694 priest ordained in the United States. There were 4,392 credible abuse claims. this yields a ratio of 4%

      But according to Charol Shakeshaft, the researcher of a little-remembered 2004 study prepared for the U.S. Department of Education, "the physical seexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

      After effectively disappearing from the radar, Shakeshaft’s study is now being revisited by commentators seeking to restore a sense of proportion to the mainstream coverage of the Church scandal.

      According to the 2004 study “the most accurate data available at this time” indicates that “nearly 9.6 percent of students are targets of educator seexual misconduct sometime during their school career.”

      As a ratio this is over double. However when you consider that in the 60 year period in question there have been over 60,000,000 public school students, the 9% ratio yields 5 million cases of child seexual abuse in the public school system.

      So who really has a problem here?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • Terry

      Two wrongs don't make a right, Bill. It is a religion claiming the high moral ground as usual, so ALL its priests should have spotless records.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Yeah,Terry. I think that is your problem. You have an unreasonable expectation of perfection in this life. Only ever happened once

      February 8, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      And it's not two wrongs. It's 4900 wrongs compared to 5 million. If you really cared about children you would be knocking the doors down at your local school district and trying to get them to achieve the kind of safety the Catholic school system provides.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Bill,

      If you know anything about crime reporting statistics, (and I do) you know s.e.x crimes are the most under reported. And labeling the confirmed cases as the only "credible" cases is extremely disingenuous. You downplay the churches role in its complicity in the continued crimes. The church was an accessory to child r@pes accross the globe. I realize that if we take any group of people there will be a criminal element within that group. That isn't the issue. The issue is the church you support itself supported the continuation of pedophilia and absolutely wrecked individuals and families. Any secular organization that acted in the way the RCC did would have been abandoned, and rightfully so.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Bill,

      "Between 1950-2007 there were 109,694 priest ordained in the United States. There were 4,392 credible abuse claims. this yields a ratio of 4%

      But according to Charol Shakeshaft, the researcher of a little-remembered 2004 study prepared for the U.S. Department of Education, "the physical seexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

      if those numbers are both right and comparing the same thing we're doing some sort of new math. If not you're comparing apples and oranges.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Science

      660 million paid out in LA for church's se-x crimes.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      This is why I would rather people do their own homework. But no one wants to. They just want to hyperventilate about PRIEST PEDOPHILES! OH MY GOD! When the facts are presented one of two things occurs. The first ala Cheesy is a retreat to the cover up, which is it's own scandal and corrals different dynamics. The other reproach is to suspect the methodology of the statistics. To which I respond "How many cases, priest and bishops are we talking about compared to some other, any other group? You supply the math Sara

      February 8, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Bill, What I'm saying is obviously we aren't looking at a rate of offense 100 times 4%. Kids spend more time in school, and far more are exposed to teachers than priests, so if you're talking absolute numbers the comparison isn't useful either.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • mk

      @Bill, I guarantee that if it had happened to one of your loved ones, all your numbers, statistics and percentages wouldn't matter.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "The first ala Cheesy is a retreat to the cover up".

      Bill,

      Are you really accusing me and others of RETREATING to the cover up as if it is a secondary and just a distraction? The cover up it THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE. You are a complete immoral asshat. You can shove your precious pedophilia hiding organization up your ass.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Right on

      Bill Deacon
      I do have a problem with "credible abuse claims". In Boston and Los Angeles, once the scandal comes to light many other victims are willing to tell their stories, same thing with the Boy Scouts, so your numbers maybe the tip of the iceberg. Not to mention that the majority of archdiocese have not been forthright in providing information. I will admit there is probably a bandwagon effect with fraudsters jumping on as golddiggers. This is a worlwide problem, who really knows how wirespread it is?

      February 8, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Right On,

      You are absolutely correct. S.ex crimes are very under reported, especially child s.e.x crimes. Add into it that the RCC does everything possible to hide its information on the issue that it has knowledge of. The Catholic church has been so immoral that there is no way it can be trusted to be a leader in morality on ANY issue. The pedophilia cover up is world wide and goes right to the top of the church.

      February 8, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Right on

      Bill Deacon
      Retreat to the cover up, what a crock. I guess the Vatican learned nothing from the scandals in Ireland where priests were slapped on the wrist and allowed to go on and abuse even more victims. Allowing the perps to continue their crimes make the hierarchy complicit, the cover up is as bad as the crime.

      February 8, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "the cover up is as bad as the crime."

      It's worse. They should know better.

      February 8, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
  5. myweightinwords

    If the law was demanding that all women immediately begin taking birth control, the bishops might have a leg to stand on.

    If they seriously want to curb abortion, birth control is the smartest option. Our world is seriously over populated. We need to curb the population growth. An intelligent solution is to make birth control widely and inexpensively available to all women and teach them how to use it effectively. It will reduce the number of pregnancies, and thereby the number of abortions, and it will afford women the ability to plan their families in a way that will encourage not only family unity, but stability.

    February 8, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • Right on

      .....words
      Not to mention the health benefits by preventing the spread of veneral disease.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:39 am |
  6. Jim Logan

    I don't know why they keep trying to appease these old white male bishops. If any proposal pleased them it would undoubtedly displease almost everyone else, so why not just ignore them and move on.

    February 8, 2013 at 10:27 am |
  7. William Miller

    Look at the pic that accompanies this article. How many white-haired old white males can you stuff in one room? And I thought this past Republican Convention looked like an AARP General Assembly. This is not about religious freedom. As someone who was raised Catholic, I recognize the signs of the same old power-driven hypocrisy that these guys have often displayed since I was a kid. They could never answer many of my most basic questions about God, often telling me that "That's just what we believe," or "That's just the way it is." Sorry, Bishop Dolan, but that lack of intellectual honesty didn't impress me then, and it sure doesn't impress me now.

    February 8, 2013 at 10:16 am |
  8. Blessed are the Cheesemakers

    The Catholic church is being completely rediculous and the gov't should tell them to STFU. No one is making anyone take contraceptives. The Catholic church can't even convince its members to follow its teaching on s.e.x and family planning because their stance is absurd and antiquated. It is a health issue. Religious policy should not be involved in public policy.

    February 8, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Right on

      You have to be a zealot like Bill Deacon to go along with the bishops. You must be obediant to the dictates of the church, you must not question your belief in the scriptures, you must follow the policies in the catechism, if you do not you are not a true catholic, Bill has repeated this over and over. So ladies you can not control your own bodies and if you end up in an abusive marriage, suck it up, divorce is out of the question. The RCC complains about the loss of freedom OF religion, but does allow freedom IN religion, hypocricy.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Sorry to burst your bubble but I have never said don't question. In fact, I say do question. I have found that when I really question what is going on that the Catholic teaching makes the most sense to me. Granted, it requires I give up my "rights" to rampant promiscuity and abortion but I can live with those losses.

      February 8, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Right On

      Bill Deacon
      How many times have you told a poster that if they did toe the line of the church they are not true catholics, be honest?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Right On

      did not toe, not did. Ooops

      February 8, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      zero

      February 8, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Doing what others tell you to do is not practicing morality. That is just being obediant.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "Granted, it requires I give up my "rights" to rampant promiscuity and abortion but I can live with those losses."

      Bill, how many times have you accused someone of a "straw man" argument.

      Pot....meet kettle

      February 8, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I don't see how this is a straw man Cheesy? Don't you claim that abortion is a right? I am willing to surrender that right in order to follow the teaching of the church. Perhaps you haven't claimed this but others claim that seexual freedom is a right. I am willing to surrender that right in order to remain faithful to my spouse and avoid the consequences of promiscuity.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Right On

      Bill Deacon
      Well I am glad to see you think abortion is a RIGHT you willinly would give up for your faith, bravo. So many others are unwilling to give up that right, now we are getting somewhere; they also do not want to give up the right to contraception and will pay for the insurance or have the insurance companies cover the cost. Would that be OK in the RCC world, not forcing the religious to spend a dime?

      February 8, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Bill,

      The straw man portion of your argument is claiming that when one supports personal autonomy rights one therefore supports abortion and irresponsible promiscuity. I used to have respect for you.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
  9. Lindsey

    What this all boils down to is an attempt by Catholic bishops to continue their stranglehold on women's reproductive organs. This has nothing to do with "religious freedom" and EVERYthing to do with the belief that women are basically babymaking machines and the property of their menfolk. Their uteruses are worshipped, but the women are dispensible. The bishops' continued opposition to this newest proposal that would offer SEPARATE health policies offering contraception at no charge to women who seek it makes that crystal-clear.

    And they wonder why their membership sinks to new lows each year.

    February 8, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • mk

      Their plan of getting catholics to procreate freely to produce more mindless sheep is backfiring.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
  10. Bob

    Who cares what Papist Pedophiles think?

    February 8, 2013 at 9:44 am |
  11. janet

    Yep, stuff like this just validates my decision to leave the church over 20 years ago. Wish these bishops had spent as much time addressing the crime of pediphile priests! We need to tax these clowns

    February 8, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • Right on

      Janet
      Wonder how many of those old white guys participated in cover ups in their archdioces as happened in LA?

      February 8, 2013 at 10:36 am |
  12. Gerry Daley

    As a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican party, the bishops and their Church will always oppose Obama. Ignore these bigots.

    February 8, 2013 at 9:39 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      HEHEHE your small world view is on display

      February 8, 2013 at 11:05 am |
  13. us_1776

    Hey Catholic dinosaurs, you do know that about 95% of your female members use contraceptives, right?

    The earth is being overpopulated you m o r o n s.

    .

    February 8, 2013 at 9:32 am |
  14. Joi Gibson

    With all due respect to the Bishops, it seems nothing is ever good enough. The President is trying to work with them and has made several compromises in their direction and they just will not cooperate. Seems to me if you are against abortion, one of the best ways to prevent that is contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Not to mention, women use contraception for medical reasons as well. If these bishops had menstrual periods and the accompanying symptoms (which contraception alleviates), they would be the first ones in line. And why is it okay for insurance to pay for Viagra so some old geezer get his feel good on, but contraception for women, well, that's just wrong. WOW!!!

    February 8, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • Liberius

      "With all due respect to Bishops"? What planet have you been living on? Religion doesn't deserve respect in general but these guys are sick, arrogant rapists who deserve to be spit upon.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:00 am |
  15. Peach

    Obama = baby killer

    February 8, 2013 at 9:19 am |
    • midwest rail

      Peach = troll

      February 8, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • Slowpoke Rodriguez

      Peach = a tasty snack I crave when I get the munchies.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:21 am |
    • John Jacobson

      Peach=moron

      February 8, 2013 at 10:17 am |
  16. ViK100

    Obama calls himself a christian but promotes the slaughtering of children through abortion. You can't have it both ways!!

    February 8, 2013 at 9:12 am |
    • midwest rail

      Absolute nonsense.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:13 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I hate it when Obama sends his Pro-Abortion storm troopers to my kid's school and distributes all that propaganda encouraing girls to kill babies. All those cartoons that show how much fun it is, those speeches he makes specifically encouraging women to engage in unsafe s.ex...
      "Obama's Abortion Brigade! No fetus can beat us!"

      February 8, 2013 at 9:17 am |
    • La Rana

      Yet the Catholic Church supports the idea of Just War, so it is okay to slaughter people after they are born.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • Primewonk

      Point 1 – Children aren't aborted. Fetuses are aborted.

      Point 2 – The Catholic church recently stated in court that fetuses are not people and have no right to life.

      Point 3 – The "christian" god, by virtue of his claimed omnipotence and omniscience, is personally responsible for 200,000 spontaneous abortions each day. Most before the woman even knows she is pregnant. 73,000,000 abortions each year. 3,000,000,000 abortions in the past 40 years. We can't hold a candle to your god.

      Point 4 – From 2000 to 2006 you wack-job fundiot religious right (oxymoron) nutters had the perfect storm. You owned the White House, Senate, House, and Supreme Court. Yet in those 6 years your religious and political masters did nothing to oitlaw abortion or reverse Roe. Can you figure out why? [Hint – you nutters are being played.]

      February 8, 2013 at 9:39 am |
  17. Primewonk

    Since the research shows that 98% of all catholics use or have used birth control, perhaps these nutters time would be better spent getting their own flock in line rather than try and force thier bizarre religious myths into our secular laws.

    February 8, 2013 at 9:12 am |
    • ViK100

      What research?? AND should we go and jump off bridges because others do?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • Primewonk

      It's from the Guttmacher Instîtute. Feel free to refute it. Just make sure your refutation uses valid peer-reviewed sources.

      And the point is – your ignorant nutter Catholic leaders are hypocrites of the first order.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:30 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      They are getting the flock in line PW. They are advocating protection of religious freedoms that enable Catholics and others not to contribute to grievous sin.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:35 am |
    • Primewonk

      Sorry Bill, but Catholics have been using birth control since there was birth control. And if anything, more of them are using now than ever before. How, exactly, are your immoral leaders forcing people to do their bidding?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • Eric G

      @Bill: They have the individual right to not use contraception. If they wish to use their faith as a basis to legislate what other individuals can or cannot do, they have an obligation to prove that their faith is based in fact. In other words, unless they can prove that their god exists, they cannot make claims of authority based on their assumed knowledge of that gods wants, desires or actions.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:47 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      No Eric, they do not have the obligation to prove existence of their God. What they have is the right to not contribute to behaviors which oppose their faith.

      February 8, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • Wrathbrow

      " They are advocating protection of religious freedoms that enable Catholics and others not to contribute to grievous sin." The Catholics leadership beliefs are not my beliefs on this and there are other Catholics who don't agree with that leadership on this. So drop the and others in terms of sin and kindly not imply they are doing it for what others (open ended) think of as sin.
      In addition my understanding that based on passages in proverbs that gluttony is a sin, yet we don't see them not wanting to pay for insulin for people that got diabetes from being obese.

      February 8, 2013 at 11:40 am |
  18. La Rana

    If there is one group that is more dysfunctional and out of touch than Congress it is the Catholic Church. Maybe those Bishops should climb down out of their ivory towers and spend some time in a place the rest of us like to call the real world.

    February 8, 2013 at 9:11 am |
    • Joi Gibson

      Exactly!!!

      February 8, 2013 at 9:22 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Congressmen are elected to enact the will of the people. Bishops are ordained to pronounce the Gospel. The will of the people changes. The Gospel does not. Americans often confuse the two systems.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:37 am |
    • Primewonk

      Purgatory and indulgences anyone?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:47 am |
    • Liberius

      Sorry Bill but we change the "gospel" whenever we please as it suits us for whatever goals we have. Just look at what I did in the Council of Nicea. What amazes us is that there is anyone left dumb enough to take us seriously.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:04 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      How wonderfully obscure. Expecting a resurgence of Arianism are we?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:11 am |
  19. Doc Vestibule

    It usually takes the Catholic Church a while to catch up with the rest of the world.
    After all, it was only in the 1980's that they finally admitted that maybe that Copernicus fella might've had a point.
    100 years after Darwin, Pope Pius XII broke down and admitted "Polygenism cannot be taught safely." – meaning Adam and Eve are mythical, not literal.
    Widespread, effective contraception has been with us for only a handful of decades. The majority of Catholics use it, especially in the developed world, despite any pontifical puffery. Since the UN has declared that access to contraception is a basic human right, I suspect that the number of users will steadily increase throughout the developing world as well, no matter how many threats of hellfire the missionaries spout.
    Then, sometime in the next few generations the Vatican will wake up, calm down, and find a way to reconcile scripture with the use of contraception (not including abortifacients).
    Poor Onan got a bum deal.

    February 8, 2013 at 8:30 am |
    • ViK100

      Excuses that you make only to continue living a life full of sins.. following your own wisdom. You want to sin? God doesn't condemn you. You condenm yourself. Keep lying to yourself if you want. I believe in the teachings of Jesus only.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:03 am |
    • La Rana

      I don't recall Jesus ever addressing the issue of contraception in any of the gospels. I do recall Jesus saying let he who is without sin cast the first stone. That includes passing judgement on others.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:16 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Vik
      Ah yes – the old "God loves you and wants you in Heaven, not in Hell. Just accept His love!"

      The truth is that Stalin does not send anyone to the Gulag.
      It is those who have hardened their hearts against Him who send themselves to the Gulag through their bourgoise atti/tudes and counterrevolutionary actions.
      This was not Stalin's plan at all.
      He truly wants everyone to go to the Worker's Paradise and it grieves Him that so many harden their hearts against Him.
      But He will not force anyone into the Worker's Paradise against their wishes.
      He respects their free will.
      So if you don't want to go to the Gulag, just open your heart to the love of Stalin.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:23 am |
  20. El Flaco

    But Catholics argued in court just last week that a fetus is NOT a person.

    February 8, 2013 at 8:19 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Legally they were correct. What's your point?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:23 am |
    • midwest rail

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/opinion/bruni-a-convenient-morality.html?_r=0

      February 8, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Bill Deacon
      Legally correct, but by their own standard, ethically wrong.
      It demonstrates that the church has no qualms about dismissing their own moral code when they find it expedient.
      Another example of the Catholic Corporation's pre-occupation with the preservation of its as.sets.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Yes, by their own admission it was a moral error. On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with legally preserving ones assets. Do you? Perhaps the flaw is in the law which provided them safe haven?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • Archdiocese

      Bill Deacon
      Have you got a link to the 12000 pages of docu-ments realeased in Los Angeles, I think they have been posted somewhere? You should be intrested in what they reveal. BTW has your archdiocese turned in their secret docu-ments to the authorities? If not, do you not think it is about time to come clean?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      It's kind of like the 10 Commandments.
      There's nothing wrong with breaking them so long as you're furthering the church's agenda...
      "Thou shalt not murder" – well, except for heathens, apostates, witches etc.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • J. Bob

      Seems the "Catholic" Health Organization's lawyers, have rescinded that statement, about "Fetuses not human". The CHO needed some correction by the Church's Bishops.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • Primewonk

      Sorry Bill. I called it last week that you ignorant fundiot nutters would attempt to weasel your way out. You nutters don't have an ethical leg to stand on.

      February 8, 2013 at 9:51 am |
    • Archdiocese

      Bill Deacon
      How would you react if the courts ordered that 10 pages of the LA docu-ments were read at all Mass' (Masses?) in all RCC churches untill every page had been read out to the laity? That would be bad PR but would inform the congregation what the hierarchy has been up to.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Do you think the court would order such a thing? Or more importantly do you think the court should have the power to?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      "On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with legally preserving ones assets. Do you?"
      Are you saying that legal rules supersede ethical rules?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Archdiocese

      Bill Deacon
      I think it would be justice to inform the laity what the hierarchy has been doing. I see were you are going, no I do not believe the state should have the power to order such a policy too much interference, Would you agree that all docu-ments in the RCC involving abuse be turned over to the police?

      February 8, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      ME II. No, I'm saying the court case should be tried under U.S. law, as it was. I am also saying there is nothing morally hazardous about using existing law to protect oneself. While the lawyers for the hospital used a questionable maneuver, they really only acted in the best interest of their client in a legal manner as they are required to do. I think the Archdiocese was right to censure them and I think if the unborn had rights of personhood in this country or the legal system operated differently things could have been different.

      Archdiocese, That is a good question. I suppose the correct answer is that if the District Attorney subpoenas them, they probably should be. Is there a case you know of where that has not happened?

      February 8, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Do you think there is a parish in the U.S. that is not aware of the scandal?

      February 8, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Archdiocese

      Of course they know, in general, but having a letter read from the pulpit wriiten by one of the victims of what they had to endure would be a powerful reminder of what can happen and did happen.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      " I am also saying there is nothing morally hazardous about using existing law to protect oneself."
      I'm not sure I agree. For example, was if morally right to return escaped slaves in the north to their "owners" in the southern US.
      Or more analogous, perhaps, is it morally okay for a slave owner to use the law to protect himself from murder charges when he kills a slave?

      February 8, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.