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Why did the Pope resign?
February 11th, 2013
02:26 PM ET

Why did the Pope resign?

By Eric Marrapodi CNN Belief Blog Editor

(CNN)–The questions reverberated from the Vatican to every corner of the Catholic world and left a billion members scratching their heads over something not seen since 1415 - why is the pope resigning now?

Pope Benedict XVI, 85, said Monday that it was because of his age.

"I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry," he read in Latin to a group of cardinals gathered to examine causes for canonization.

The pressures may well have been too much for him to bear. As pope he was the bishop of Rome, the head of a tiny country, and spiritual shepherd to a billion people.

'[I]n today's world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the barque of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me," he continued in his statement.

The Rev. Federico Lombardi, head of the Vatican press office, told reporters there was no specific health crisis or disease that forced the pope to make the decision at this time.

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“The basic take is he is stable and could have gone on at a lower level for some time,” said John Allen, CNN's senior Vatican analyst. Allen pointed out there were no recent hospitalizations or public falls, and the pope likely "decided rather that he would pull the plug now instead of waiting for disaster.”

“Timing is the big shock. We simply had no indication this was coming," Allen said. "The Vatican quite honestly leaks like a sieve. There was no hint this was coming down the pike.”

At 78 when he became pope, he was not a young man and said at the time that he anticipated his papacy would be short.

Before becoming the pope, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger had a quiet retirement in mind. He was serving Pope John Paul II as the head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, the doctrinal watchdog for the church once called the Inquisition.

In that role, Benedict worked beside Pope John Paul II and watched up close as Parkinson's disease slowly ravaged his predecessor.

When Pope John Paul II died in 2005, Ratzinger was just two years from a forced retirement as a cardinal.

When he was elected by the College of Cardinals to be pope, he joined a line of men that stretched 2,000 years from Jesus' disciple Peter to today.

What is known about the pope’s medical history is scant: In 1991 he had a brain hemorrhage, but that did not prevent him from continuing his career. And in 2009 a fall led to a broken wrist. So his decision to leave his post while showing little sign of any ailment has opened the door to speculation.

"The sad suspicion is his mind is going," said Michael Sean Winters, a visiting fellow at the Institute for Policy Research and Catholic Studies at the Catholic University of America and a blogger for Distinctly Catholic at the National Catholic Reporter.

Archbishop Thomas Wenski of Miami said he thought the pope looked "frail" when he was in Cuba earlier this year. He walks with a cane and often could be seen struggling to move around the altar as he celebrated Mass.

“At 85 years old, in your 86th year, I think you’re entitled to walk with a cane," Cardinal Donald Wuerl, the archbishop of Washington, D.C., said at a news conference. He was at the Vatican with the pope for much of October for a synod meeting. "He seemed not only very alert but full of energy,” Wuerl said.

"He presided at meeting after meeting after meeting, there was no doubt he was in full possession of his faculties. He would give talks to us without notes in front of him. I am younger than the pope and I wouldn’t have begun my remarks without notes," Wuerl said. "He had no problem at all speaking with great clarity.”

Allen, who was at an event with the pope with a visiting dignitary, recently said, “He was all there mentally.”

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Even if his mind remains sharp, the office brings with it a schedule that would exhaust men a quarter of the pope's age.

There are endless meetings at the Vatican with clergy, diplomats and heads of state. This year he completed hour-long meetings with every bishop in the United States, according to Bishop Thomas Paprocki of Springfield, Illinois.

“It’s a grueling and demanding schedule to keep up with,” Paprocki said.

As the pope, “there’s an expectation you’re going to be doing trans-Atlantic flights and his doctors have warned him against it the whole time," Winters said.

Last year alone the pope traveled to Mexico, Cuba, and Lebanon.

While the most plausible explanation for his resignation seems to be the most benign, there are other elements of scandal and mismanagement at the Vatican that may have also played a role.

“No one is going to say this was a well-managed papacy,” Winters said.

There were scandals that rocked both the church as a whole and the tightly knit community in Vatican City.

The child sex abuse scandal continued to plague the church globally even as strict reforms were put in place. A visible sign of the scandal at the coming conclave to select a new pope will be Cardinal Roger Mahoney, the former archbishop of Los Angeles, who was stripped of his public and administrative duties this month by his successor, Archbishop Jose Gomez, for his role in covering up a child sex abuse scandal. A spokesman for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles confirmed Mahoney will be attending the conclave.

Inside the walled compound of the Vatican City, the Vatican Bank is being investigated for noncompliance with European money laundering protections. The head of the bank left in disgrace.

The pope saw his own butler betray him by stealing documents from his desk and passing them to journalists, and internal battles erupt over alleged mismanagement.

On Sunday, the pope tweeted, "We must trust in the mighty power of God’s mercy. We are all sinners, but His grace transforms us and makes us new."

The mention of personal sin was not out of character with the Christian belief outlined in Paul's letter to the Romans that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

In his statement Monday he again turned to flaws, saying, "Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects."

Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said he expects a new pope will be in place in time for Easter.

The pope gave little indication of what his future might hold, where he would live and what life for a former pope might entail. He concluded his statement by saying, "I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer."

Full Coverage: The pope resigns

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Bishops • Catholic Church • Pope Benedict XVI • Pope John Paul II • Vatican

soundoff (1,015 Responses)
  1. lionlylamb

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D23JH30ZMK0&w=640&h=390]

    February 12, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
  2. Throbert Armstrong

    I just really wonder who the next Churchfuhrer is going to be. Really. Who gets to be infallible tyrrant-for-life? It's so important.

    February 12, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
  3. lionlylamb

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KdpzL3Hkk&w=640&h=390]

    February 12, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
  4. Tommy

    So you are just speculating.

    February 12, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • ..

      Reply button. Use it.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • December

      No.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • December

      @..

      It is tough when the thread is at the bottom of the page, it appears like one is replying.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
  5. Reality

    I "twittered" BXVI the following. (The next day he announced his resignation.)

    The Apostles'/Agnostics’ Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
    and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    (references used are available upon request)

    February 12, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • ..

      Bullshit. Work on your intros....they suck.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doubters teaching doubters to doubt. Classic.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Answer

      Sticks and stones. LOL

      February 12, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Atheists always need their backup team(s). Too easy.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • Answer

      The quack quacks theists always need their backup team(s). Too easy.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I'm posting solo. And you answer? LOL.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • Reality

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor JD Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones. And what is left of them still are a'mouldering in the ground outside of Jerusalem.

      February 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
  6. End Religion

    It's clear the Pope quit right after receiving his iPad. He came onto the CNN blog and saw the nincompoops who were on his side and realized it was a losing battle.

    February 12, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
  7. lionlylamb

    Imagine if one wills, a dimension of demented growths, patterned via the augmentations of riddled monumental sounds by the atomic vessels giving rise to materially matted renditions of now times and ages. As the terminal velocities of atomized soundings reaches a zenith, light dares to be ensued as sound dissipates and light dare becomes as a child at sounding's zenith. We; being of materially matted renderings of light encasements via patterned augments thru overt renditions inverse laws are ever squared due the lineages of dichotomies entanglements. We are all lights' children of materially matted soundings.

    February 12, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • .

      LL is the belief blog pseudo intellect, don't bother reading their garbage, just laugh and move on.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • Answer

      Back to the text because you have no way to release your brain farts through video links.. hilarious.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
  8. Tommy

    Maybe god wrote the bible as a big joke, after all you can't know what is in gods mind.

    February 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
  9. shankar

    He probably got tired of the pedophiles Catholic priests wanting help.

    February 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
  10. Tommy

    Yeah, but you can't be sure because it is impossible to know the mind of god.

    February 12, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Answer

      Every loony christian thinks they have that claim on their god. Just look at how their relationship with their delusions comes out to play in text.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, what is looney is to assume a Christian cares what a nonbeliever thinks.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • Answer

      Whatever makes you think we care about what you have to say then? XD

      February 12, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      LOL.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Answer

      LOL for LOL

      February 12, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • God: a Barbie doll for the mind

      Of course you know the mind of God, Tommy! It's whatever you want it to be. It's all your imagination. God is your Barbie doll: you give it whatever personality you like. That's why none of you can agree on god's character – you have all invented your own versions.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • Tommy

      My version of god doesn't exist.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • sam stone

      HS: Just another mouthy gash. Get back on your knees, b1tch, the savior needs servicing

      February 12, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
  11. Mitch Horton

    Now the pope is done. Its been 600 years since the last one resigned. What I think is why does it matter? God put everyone on this earth for a reason. That reason was to believe in him, and the forgiveness of sins. My opinion is why do we need a pope for people to believe in, when they can believe for themselves an only themselves. Cause when judgment day comes. God will make that decision whether he will take you to heaven. So why should we believe in the pope. And why should we believe in him .. believing for us. Let him believe for himself.

    February 12, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Answer

      That judgement day.. when?

      Have you told your children that they will be the ones to experience judgement day? Maybe you'll tell them that it is their children that will face judgement day? Certainly not in your life time as it seems, but you'll keep on telling yourself that it's really soon.

      Let's just have a good time making fun of you.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      "I am certain that jesus christ will return in my lifetime" – a billion dead people.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, here's a newsflash for you. Only doubters will be judged. The rest of us did what Jesus asked.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Answer

      Here's a newflash for you...

      You can try to wish all you want that there will be judgement. Keep trying to justify that you can. XD

      February 12, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Mitch, God didn't send them, the Kenites did.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, Believers aren't afraid of Jesus' judgment. He will tell us good job.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
    • Answer

      Ya good job at being losers with an argument. Go team stupid.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • sam stone

      HS: Jesus may indeed say the words "good job" to you, but he will put the word "blow" beween them

      February 12, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      sam stone, just another carnal post.

      February 12, 2013 at 6:17 pm |
  12. December

    @lunchbreaker

    What about free will?

    February 12, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Gus

      What free will? You only have the illusion of it, nitwit. Die of old age, already and quit posting on the internet, fool.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Answer

      Every day they wrestle with their fears. Such a sad lot.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • sam stone

      how does free will jibe with the concept of an omnipotent god?

      February 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • December

      You say an omnipotent God could stop sin.

      But what if he chooses to allow sin to preserve free will?

      February 12, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Answer

      What is god feeling right at this moment?

      February 12, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      For a christian there is no such thing as free will when you have an omnipotent god who governs your fate. Free will and fate are mutually exclusive. If god knows who you are and exactly how you will live your life before you are even born, then the existance of you making a decision against what god has already foreseen doesn't make any sense. You are given the illusion of free will because your bible, or your church or whoever you look to for spiritual guidance has told you that you can make the choice to believe in god or not (that's a whole other can of worms) but the fact remains that you might think you can make the choice, but you've either already been granted admission to heaven or tossed into hell before your parents even met.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Gus

      To allow sin would be evil, idiot.
      To allow sin so that you could blame it on others and then hold them accountable for simply being born is not only insane, it is criminally stupid and evil.
      You worship an evil and insane god that doesn't exist. This warps your thinking and your actions to stupid and evil thoughts.
      You are a hypocrite if you advocate for good yet worship evil as you do. Quit drinking the koolaid.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • December

      @Chuckles

      God has given me a life to live. And freedom to make choices. I suffer the consequences of bad choices just like anyone else.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Answer

      @December

      I want to ask you a question: if you care to reply to it – please.

      Have you verified 100% that your bible is all true?

      February 12, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      I don't think you read my post or you didn't understand it. If god is omnipotent, before he "gave" you life, he knew you, knew the "choices" you would make, and has already decided if you are going to heaven or hell already. According to your god, you've already suffered for the choices you will make in the future or reaped their rewards. Every breath and action you take now is literally just going through the motions of what god has already set for you so your "choices" are actually just lines on a script. You have no real choice but to follow in the fate that god designed for you. True free will would be if you would be able to make a choice devoid of god's knowledge or input, but that would make god not omnipotent so there's a quandry. Instead you choose to believe you have free will even though you don't understand that free will and fate are at odds with each other. It's a high form of doublethink, but doublethink nonetheless.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • December

      @Answer
      > Have you verified 100% that your bible is all true?

      No.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • December

      @Chuckles

      There sure does seem to be an impression of free will. I think what we do matters. Maybe God knows all, but I don't. It is mysterious to me.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • sam stone

      "You say an omnipotent God could stop sin."

      I said nothing of the sort. I only asked how free will jibes with the concept of an omnipotent god.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • December

      @sam stone

      Sorry, I got you and Lunchbreaker mixed up.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Like it I said, free will to you is just an illusion when you place an omnipotent diety into the mix. Just because it feels like free will doesn't make it so theologically.

      You have no free will.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Answer

      @December

      Thank you for your honest reply.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • December

      @Chuckles
      Why does Jesus Christ ask us to repent?

      February 12, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • sam stone

      december: no worries, mate

      February 12, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      The same reason why god went through the whole song and dance to forgive humans. The same reason why people live in a "fallen world". The same reason why you feel that you need more humility, etc... because it's not enough in christian theology to be condemned to hell before being born, god instructs us that we have to feel bad about it too. By creating the caveat of free will within christian theology, your god can now condemn people and still be omnibenevolent because it's not his "choice" ir was your "choice" that led to his condemnation.

      It's the same reason why whenever you achieve something, or something good happens, god gets the credit. Whenever you fail or something bad happens, it wasn't gods fault, it was your fault. It's a way to let the monster that you call god keep the ti.tle of "omnibenevolent".

      It's doublethink, but it works for you because everyone here likes to believe that have some semblence of control over their lives. The idea of free will and to "choose" to repent takes all the blame from god.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • sam stone

      december: perhaps jesus's words were written by nomadic people who did not see the conflict between free will and an omnipotent god.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      You say there is no freewill because if God already knows what is going to happen you have no choice. How does his knowing what your answer will be, keep him from letting you make the choice? If he knows you will reject him then he can’t be a good God and let you reject him. Says who? You? This is his universe he can do whatever he wants. Should the creation question the creator? He remains good because he offers you the choice, him knowing your response to his offer does not diminish his goodness, but it does say something about yours. Satan was a created intelligence with freewill, he had so much power that he thought, I will be my own god. Could there be anything like pride without freewill?

      February 12, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Joey

      @Chuckles

      Honest question: Do you think there's an element of semantics to your argument? What I mean is, your argument is based on the idea that if god is omniscient/omnipotent, then free will cannot exist because no matter what, he knows what you will do.

      However, if god really were omnipotent, then shouldn't he have the ability to choose not to know or influence? I know you can rebut this with "then god isn't really omnipotent", but I would argue back that maybe we do not have a good grasp on what omnipotence really is.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • December

      @chuckles
      >> god instructs us that we have to feel bad about it too.

      I don't think that is true.

      Jesus Christ says we are worthy.

      >> It's the same reason why whenever you achieve something, or something good happens, god gets the credit. Whenever you fail or something bad happens, it wasn't gods fault, it was your fault.

      I really don't think that way.

      Sometimes my failures shape me into a better person than my succeses. Maybe that's why we are asked to praise God even in turmoil?

      >> It's doublethink, but it works for you because everyone here likes to believe that have some semblence of control over their lives. The idea of free will and to "choose" to repent takes all the blame from god.

      What about "you reap what you sow?"

      February 12, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, God's truth in the Bible is perfect. You'd know that if you weren't rewriting scriptures to suit your sinful ways.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Answer

      Sure HS.. perfectly retarded. Suits you like a glove.

      Glorify in your stupidity of it. XD

      February 12, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • Tommy

      Robert, If god knows what you are going to choose and you can't choose the opposite you have no free will.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Robert

      –Honestly, I made it through most of your post and got the point. "Who am I to question the creator?" is pretty much your gi.s.t, and is s.a.dly a fall back for the c.hris.tian a.po.lo.g.ist who ref.uses to actu.ally fa.ce the tou.gh ide.a of not ha.ving free will but to ins.tead acc.ept eve.rything wit.hout que.stion. Th.at's no way to go thro.ugh l.ife son.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • Chuckles

      FU.CK! I hate this damn filter

      @Joey

      You're arguing in circles. I don't think you are a believer so sorry for the mistake if you are. Saying god is omnipotent but.... means he's not omnipotent. It's akin to saying, "I like all movies, except horror, action, comedy, drama, and rom coms" or even I like all movies except horror movies – by inserting an exception you automatically invalidate the original purpose of the statement.

      god was created to be omnipotent, not just bigger and badder than the egyptian gods, he is supposed to be the biggest, with no other god being able to oppose him. Can god hide things from himself? Well, can you hide something from yourself? I'm not talking about absentmindedly losing something, I mean actively choosing to try and hide something from yourself.... Same applies here. If god supposedly has knowledge of your entire life, how can you forget that and if god is supposedly is omnipotent and can somehow actually do this, then he is willfully giving up omnipotence which means that free will can be restored, but god is not omnipotent.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      "I really don't think that way.

      Sometimes my failures shape me into a better person than my succeses. Maybe that's why we are asked to praise God even in turmoil?"

      - You just did it, you gave credit to god in hindesight after you saw the silver lining. Tell me, how did god help the people in Ja.pan when they were socked with an earthquake, tsunami and then a reactor meltdown in hours. Scores were killed, more will be from the radiation which is still a problem, so how did god help those people?

      "What about "you reap what you sow?"
      - Same question as before and I've already answered it, it's doublethink and just reinforcing the illusion of free will. What's really happening is you are reaping what god made you sow.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • December

      > Same question as before and I've already answered it, it's doublethink and just reinforcing the illusion of free will.

      I believe I do have free will. And what I do and don't do really matters.

      Are you saying this is just an illusion?

      > What's really happening is you are reaping what god made you sow.

      "You reap what you sow."? or "Your reap what God made you sow."?

      I really do believe the first.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • Joey

      @ Chuckles

      I am a belie(b)ver, but I obviously don't know all the answers, which is why I like discussing on here.

      I think my thinking falls into what you wrote at the end: "If god supposedly has knowledge of your entire life, how can you forget that and if god is supposedly is omnipotent and can somehow actually do this, then he is willfully giving up omnipotence which means that free will can be restored, but god is not omnipotent." It kind of falls into the same question of "If god is omnipotent, then can he create a rock so heavy he can't lift it? If he can't create it then he's not omnipotent, but if he does and is unable to lift it, then the same applies."

      To me, if someone is all-powerful, then the inability to not be all-powerful would in turn make him not all-powerful. Does that make any sense?

      February 12, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I like to smell goat rectum.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Yes, it's just an illusion, unless your god is not omniscient and does not know the future and operates within this space and time, then everything you say, do, think, etc... is already written and you are fated to say, think and do those things. Just because you believe you are making those choices in the moment doesn't mean you have the autonomy you want. Sorry.

      @Joey

      Pity. I had hoped that sharing a name we would also share similar ideas :)

      "To me, if someone is all-powerful, then the inability to not be all-powerful would in turn make him not all-powerful. Does that make any sense?"
      - Yes, it makes sense, but you are questioning yourself into a paradox (one of many) when it comes to god that was endowed with many fantastical powers but apparently no loopholes. The problem is, monotheism relies heavily on making god omnipotent, it's what sets him apart from the other gods during the time period when he came on the scene and the questions you have have already been asked but are only met with an order to not think about it and just believe. My advice is to keep asking these questions, keep digging. You're questions are valid and honestly, coming from a non-believer such as myself, it's what usually leads people down the path I took. Keep asking the "whys" and the "hows" and pretty soon you'll come to realize that no answer makes sense because the idea of god, although comforting, doesn't make sense.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:27 pm |
    • December

      @Chuckles
      "Yes, it's just an illusion,...."

      Yea, I get what you are saying. But I disagree. That is not what I believe.

      What we do really matters. And in some areas of my life, I need to repent.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      I understand you don't want to believe that, that you would like to believe that you have control over yourself and your actions, but your belief is just a product of doublethink. You are willing to accept and omnipotent, omniscient god but also that you have free will. This is the same idea as Winston faces belieiving with all this being that Oceania is at war with Eurasia and always has been until Oceania is at war with Eastasia and always has been at war with Eastasia. You know and understand both and choose to ignore the illogical inconsistencies inhereint within these ideas, it doesn't make them go away however, it just means you've chosen blind faith instead of intelligence. Can't really help you with that.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • December

      @chuckles

      I don't believe you are right. You can claim you are more intelligent. But I think we just disagree.

      You are presenting a philosophical theory. And it is one I don't even think you live your life by.

      But for some reason you feel sure this is what I believe.

      It is not.

      God's ways are bigger and better than your philosophical theory. Bigger and better than mine, too.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Lapsing into your usual comebacks don't work. Bringing up that I think I'm more intelligent than you only reaffirms this by the fact that the only thing you can say against this is that you don't believe. You don't say where the fault in my logic is, you just keep asserting that you believe what you do has meaning and so you dismiss my logic, but it doesn't work like that. Sorry bro.

      "You are presenting a philosophical theory. And it is one I don't even think you live your life by. But for some reason you feel sure this is what I believe."
      - Of course I don't live by this theory, I've said it outright and I'll say it again, god most likely does not exist, so the idea of fate and a being knowing my every move from birth to death does not exist. As for whether or not free will exists even without the existance of god is a different story altogether and most likely to high level of stuff for you to understand.
      However, I'm not saying whether you believe this or not. Why you feel the need to keep saying that I'm telling you what you believe is beyond me, probably because I'm diving in further into christian dogma than you even considered and you would rather doggie paddle in the shallow end rather than dive into the deep end of the pool.

      Just so we can be clear and I can have written proof that I'm not "telling you what you believe" 1. Do you believe that god is omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient? 2. do you believe in free will?

      If the answer is yes to both of those things please refer to my previous posts about how those two beliefs are incompatible and you are engaging in doublethink in order to reconcile the two opposing ideas.

      If the answer to one or both of those is no, please say which one you don't believe in and why.

      February 12, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • December

      @chuckles

      "You don't say where the fault in my logic is, "

      You don't believe in God. I don't mean that as a snappy comeback, but if you don't believe in God... how can we see eye-to-eye on what God is?

      "1. Do you believe that god is omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient? 2. do you believe in free will?"

      1. Sure. I don't think those words appear in the Bible. But generally I think God created this world and knows everything about it. 2. Yes.

      Maybe he has chosen to limit his powers in this dimension in order for us to have free will?

      The Bible does say God gave man dominion over Earth. God gave up his power for us. Get it?

      We can invite God in. And we can also invite evil in.

      But God dwells in heaven, where eveil can not exist.

      God has decided to limit himself, possibly for the benefit of us.

      February 12, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      "You don't believe in God. I don't mean that as a snappy comeback, but if you don't believe in God... how can we see eye-to-eye on what God is?"

      –This makes no sense at all. You're saying there is fault in my logic because I don't believe in the dietey we're discussing? Are you saying that I then can't discuss Vishnu, or Allah, or Zeus because I'm not a follower, I've just read a lot about them? That's fool talk. You don't have to be a part of something to know a lot about it.

      Next, your answer to my two questions was "yes" though you waffled a bit on the first one, your answer seems to be that you believe that you have free will and that god is omnibenevolent, omniicient and omnipotent. Now please read the posts above to see how those two things are mutually exclusive and incompatible.

      "Maybe he has chosen to limit his powers in this dimension in order for us to have free will? The Bible does say God gave man dominion over Earth. God gave up his power for us. Get it?"
      - Hmmmm, so this comment shows you don't really understand what a paradox is. This is similar to what Joey was asking above and like I pointed out to him, if you have an omnipotent god who makes himself not omnipotent then he's not omnipotent, If that same god can not give up power to become less omnipotent, then it's something that god can not do thus making him not omnipotent. It's a paradox that stems from that fact that when you have a make-believe character with make-believe powers, you don't have to worry about the logical inconsistencies. I recommend you stick to that thread of reasoning and see how far down the rabbit hole you can go in asking about these paradoxes that plague your god.

      The latter part of your sentence, saying god gave dominion of earth to man is not the same as giving up power. As much as it pains me to use this analogy here it goes, if a parent gives a kid "dominion" over his room it does not mean that the kid owns that part of the house or that the parent couldn't come in and still make the kid clean up his room.

      The fascinating thing about the last part of your post though is the overt double think you apply and how you can't even recognize it. You answer "yes" when I asked if you thought god was omnipotent but then you go on to try and persuade me how god has given up power, which means that in your mind god is also not* omnipotent through his own will.... so which is it december, is god omnipotent or not? or is it both?

      February 12, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
    • sam stone

      "You say there is no freewill because if God already knows what is going to happen you have no choice. How does his knowing what your answer will be, keep him from letting you make the choice?"

      Because if he knows what my choice will be, and he cannot be wrong, there is only one possible choice.

      For example, if I felt I had a choice of A or B. and god knows i will choose B, and god cannot be wrong, do I have a chance to choose A, proving god wrong? No.

      February 12, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
    • December

      @Chuckles

      I have a God who died. Does that make sense to you?

      February 12, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Unless you qualify that statement, no, no it does not. What good is a dead god? Now, if you were to tell me that your god birthed a piece of himself into human form in order to be mutilated to use himself as a sacrifice to forgive humans for something he made them do in the first place..... well it still makes no sense but at least I'd understand it a bit better.

      February 12, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • December

      Jesus limited his powers while on Earth. He could have removed himself from the cross. It shows me a little bit of what God is doing.

      Anyway, I'm out of here for the day. Later.

      February 12, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • End Religion

      Goodness, December, are you sure all cylinders of your brain are firing? Why would a god limit his powers? Hint: he wouldn't even need to go through the whole charade of the jesus story at all, he's a god. All he needs to do is show up and say "praise me" and if we don't then kill us. Why the elaborate jesus story unless humans need to try to make sense of their ignorance?

      February 12, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
  13. Rainer Braendlein

    I guess that Daddy Rat has committed any crime which is about to become know. He simply wants to escape the matter. Maybe he has molested some boys as a young priest. Let him escape now – at Judgement Day Jesus Christ will condemn him, this spiritual monster, the forunner of the Antichrist.

    February 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • sam stone

      Ranier....the german closet queen returns

      February 12, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Let me guess – another proponent of the Malachy "prophecies".

      February 12, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Rainer is speaking out of church and maybe a little over the top. Lutherans have little use for priests and popes who stand between ordinary believers and God.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
  14. William Demuth

    Another pedophille falling from grace

    Former Nazi as well

    It's a shame he isn't dead yet, but it is only a matter of time

    February 12, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Heil Obama, I missed your comments.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      William, your post wreaks of your own spiritual death. Still on that wide path to destruction that most are on.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • ..

      Tediosity from a mediocre minded German twit. Should be proud of your homeland homie.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • sam

      Pretty sure she meant 'reeks', but I guess we shouldn't complain. This is as lucid as the old bat gets.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      sam, (cough) Tommie, Tom. Typos always make you come out from your bogus handles. Too easy. LOL.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • sam

      Crazy old paranoid bat. That wasn't a typo; you don't know the difference between the two words to begin with. Can you still get wifi at your trailer, or are you at the library again?

      February 12, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Check

      @HeavenSent,

      Your misuse of 'wreak' vs 'reek' is not a typo (typographical error). It is your misunderstanding of the meaning of the words. Not surprising in one such as you.

      "Typographical Error: The term includes errors due to mechanical failure or slips of the hand or finger, but excludes errors of ignorance, such as spelling errors."

      February 12, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • ..

      HS, you're right. Everyone on here is the same person except YOU, paranoid schizo J-slut.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie, Tom, come out from behind your dummy handles. LOL.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • Answer

      Obsession with Tom Tom.. classic.

      What happened HS? Got creamed too many times because you couldn't hold an argument about you bible?

      February 12, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Why does my finger smell like my dogs rectum.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
  15. Robert Brown

    Jesus then told them this story:

    The kingdom of heaven is like what happened when a farmer scattered good seed in a field. But while everyone was sleeping, an enemy came and scattered weed seeds in the field and then left.

    When the plants came up and began to ripen, the farmer’s servants could see the weeds. The servants came and asked, “Sir, didn’t you scatter good seed in your field? Where did these weeds come from?”

    “An enemy did this,” he replied.

    His servants then asked, “Do you want us to go out and pull up the weeds?”

    “No!” he answered. “You might also pull up the wheat. Leave the weeds alone until harvest time. Then I’ll tell my workers to gather the weeds and tie them up and burn them. But I’ll have them store the wheat in my barn.”

    (Mat. 13: 24-30 CEV)

    February 12, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • ..

      Lots-o-good priestly seed being spread around.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      That is an awful parable.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • sam

      Damn, if the worst your 'enemies' can think of doing to you is getting weeds in your garden...I mean, it's the equivalent of kids TPing your house. Lamest parable ever.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      I was reading some posts from yesterday and the poster was asking why if God is all powerful would he allow sin, or why doesn’t he just remove sin. This is Gods answer.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • Yup

      Your god creates weeds so he can burn them, now that's not a loving god but a real jerk.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • fuzzy

      But the problem is John of Patmos heard about this nonsense and then tried it out for himself. He tried to burn the weeds himself. He didn't realize it was marihuana. It made him very dizzy and he started seeing things. His friends thought it was funny and put a pen in his hand and told him to write down everything he was "seeing".

      February 12, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Yup,

      The enemy sowed the weed seeds.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Yup

      "The enemy sowed the weed seeds."

      So your god allows something else to create people to burn, NOT!

      February 12, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Yup,

      Granted, the enemy is also a created being. Obviously God gave the angels freewill also. Satan became the enemy of God because of pride.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Yup

      Dude you can lie all you want or try to spin it but the bottom line is your god creates people to burn in hell, otherwise, it's not an all knowing god or not a god at all. The fact you will worship a god that will supposedly burn billions and billions of people for all eternity is why your god is a real JERK!

      February 12, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • End Religion

      There is very little distinction between cult and religion. Generally, a cult worships a person as a god, whereas a religion worships a supernatural god. However it is then argued from one god-belief to another why one's brand of belief is not a cult. As it is used today, generally, 'cult' is used to disparage while 'religion' is applied out of consideration. But it is all the same fraud.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Yup,

      I see that a lot, but I don’t get it because he doesn’t want to punish anyone. He wants everyone to come to him. He says he stands at the door and knocks. All you have to do is let him in.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • sam

      'Herp derp, I let a bunch of you grow up as weeds, good luck!'

      If we're really lucky, some more powerful deity who's less of a dick will come along and punch this one in the head. Or better yet...hmm...how about no deities at all.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      End Religion,

      I’ve always associated cult with a deranged leader who manipulates and controls people for his own benefit. No doubt they exist, but to paint all believers with that broad brush seems inaccurate.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Bob

      Christianity is simply a blood cult.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
  16. William Demuth

    He is a liar

    Scandal has brought him down, as it will bring down the entire cult.

    February 12, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      You think he's lying about being 86? About having a pacemaker? About the pace of the job? About his admission that someone else will serve the Church better? Call me when you're 86 and tell me you're not retiring. OH, but first spend seven years on the world stage. Oops, too late, you'll never make it that far.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • Billy

      Come back to tell us how u r doin' when u r 85, until then ciao

      February 12, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • ..

      You think he os totally without blame in the pedophilia scandal? That he didn't author a paper threatening excommunication to the victims if they told? That RCC estimates there are 6000 pedopriests THAT THEY ACKNOWLEDGE? You think that people don't know that popes generally don't retire? LMFAO. Deliciously delusional. Eat a wafer.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Bill, agreed. The people here questioning this resignation must be about 14 or really have their heads in the sand regarding the aging process.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Saraswati

      "You think that people don't know that popes generally don't retire? "

      Until recently popes didn't "generally" travel around behind bullet proof glass. Times change. People live longer these days so we now have very many very old people...and popes. These men can no longer hide behind dozens of supporters; there are cameras everywhere and televised speeches expected. Most importantly modern medicine provides a suite of cognitive tests that can identify the early signs of dementia, and give you a heads up when you are still lucid enough to understand the diagnosis.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • ..

      Way to gloss over the rest of my post. Vatican officials already said he doesn't have Alzheimer's.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @.., There are a lot of signs of cognitive decline long before a diagnosis of alzheimer's or other dementias...and a heck of a lot of otherillnesses faced by most that age. Hell, most men are dead by his age.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Sara,

      If he is telling the truth and retired because of old age than he is doing the responsible thing. Having spent plenty of time among Catholic leaders I have reason to doubt his motives and will wait for the other show to drop.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      **shoe**

      February 12, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
  17. Correctlycenter

    Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-7
    " You are already following a different way that pretends to be the Good News but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who twist and change the truth concerning Christ."

    February 12, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Boom Bume, OGTL, esq.

      Since all of it is made-up lies to fool people, why should anyone care about the details, chapter, verse or whatever?
      Why not use your energy to do good things for people instead of wasting time poring over lies?

      February 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Boom Bume, OGTL, esq, the only ones being fooled are the nonbelievers. Doubt is caused by Satan's lies that has a grip on you. I suppose you didn't bother researching this concept either.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • Primewonk

      "Doubt is caused by Satan's lies"

      No. Doubt is caused by examination of the facts and evidence.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • sam

      CARNAL SATAN AND HIS CARNAL LIES

      February 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Primewonk, as Jesus said, most are on the wide path to destruction. Jesus died for all our sins. All He asked is for you to have faith in Him. Oooooooooooooooh, too difficult for you primewonk.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • sam

      Every time HS posts, I can hear that one crazy lady from the trading spouses ep that kept screaming YOU ARE ALL DARKSIDED!! DARKSIDED IN JESUS NAME I PRAY!!

      February 12, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      sam, still babbling and stalking?

      February 12, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • sam

      Are you going to run out to the Taco Bell later for a CARNAL ASADA BURRITO?

      February 12, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, plus meningitis, lupus, typhoid, and other diseases and cancers too numerous to mention that have caused intense suffering to millions upon millions of people. Wow, god must be quite the cruel jerk.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
  18. Mohammad A Dar

    doesn't matter what made him to resign, but next Pope is going to face a challenge to establish himself as a legit Pope for next few years. People would still follow the retired Pope, like x-Presidents, people would make comparison between him and the new one. His resignation will divide the Catholics further more on issues.

    February 12, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      We all have our favorite popes. Mine is John Paul II. I have friends who admire John XXIII. But we still recognize the office of the current chair.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      @Bill – yes my favorite president is Washington, and I have friends who admire Lincoln, but as long as Clinton is around, although he is retired, people are going to follow him.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Chuckles

      I think the bigger issue here isn't that the next pope will have some shoes to fill (every pope has to deal with that). The real problem is usually popes ascend to the papacy after the death of their predecessor, but the next guy will not only have to deal with Benedict's legacy, but will have to deal with Benedict in the flesh. If the pope is supposed to be the conduit in which god speaks and thus infallible, what if the Benedict and the next pope disagree? Both were chosen to be pope and should be infallible so there could be a big issue there. It should be fun seeing chrisitian apologetics try to weasel their way out of some theological inconsistencies with this one.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Chuckles, an interesting fact (if true): this Pope has never spoken ex cathedra.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Tom Tom

      That's what I've been thinking. The church hasn't had to deal with resignation since the 1400's especially in this day and age where information travels so quickly and easily and Benedict could easily write something on the internet or release a statement saying how he disagrees with the next god, the waves it's going to make will ripple throughout the entire ministry in the world. Catholics better hope that benedict dies sooner rather than later so they don't have to deal with him.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      @Chuckles, interesting points; one thing Pope is going to loose for sure is his tweeter account !! lol!

      February 12, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Mohammad A Dar, the only person we need is Jesus Christ and His truth. No need to follow traditions of man.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      In regards to infallibility and papal pre-immenence you demonstrate more ignorance than I would have guessed at chuckles.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      @HS (fake!!) so you prefer to follow a "person", but not a "man" ? lol!

      February 12, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Bill Deacon

      More hot air from a guy who would rather say I'm wrong than actually try and correct my statements (presumably because you can't). Your words are wind kiddo, nothing more than sad protestations from a child who wants attention but doesn't know what to do with it once he gets it.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      @Chuckles – even Benedict doesn't die soon enough, I am guessing, he is going to spend his remaining life in a halfway house, like Galileo.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Reuben the First

      Bill Deacon More than a sheep, you are a lap dog to the hierarchy of the RCC, please pray tell, how them old buggers are going to get the job done, for our info.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
  19. Open Mind..

    Verses regarding Mary in Quran (Islamic Scripture)

    “Mention in the scripture Mary. She isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location.” [19:16]

    “While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being.”

    She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous."

    He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."

    She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."

    He said, "Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.' "

    When she bore him, she isolated herself to a faraway place.

    The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed;) I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."

    (The infant) called her from beneath her, saying, "Do not grieve. Your Lord has provided you with a stream.

    "If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.*

    "Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence, [to the Most Gracious]*; I am not talking today to anyone.' "

    She came to her family, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have committed something that is totally unexpected.

    "O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?"

    (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet.

    "He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) for as long as I live.

    "I am to honor my mother; He did not make me a disobedient rebel.

    "And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected."

    “That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.”

    “It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.”

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to visit whyIslam org website.

    February 12, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Check

      Cute story.

      Just stay out of trouble and don't let any evil djinns get ya'...

      February 12, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Live4Him

      Why doesn't an "omniscient Allah" know the correct members of the Christian Trinity?

      And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [Quran 5:116]

      February 12, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Observer

      Live4him, you have been asking this important question, have you ever had a response from a Muslim? Guess not.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • ..

      Um...because Muslims don't believe that? How's that for an answer, you arrogant intolerant dingbat?

      February 12, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Matthew 7:13- 29

      February 12, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      Why doesn't the Bible have the correct number?

      @Open Mind...
      This seems rather contradictory, doesn't it?
      "When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence, [to the Most Gracious]*; I am not talking today to anyone.' ""

      February 12, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • Answer

      Always make note of which phrases that christians turn to in their usage of their babble.

      –>Matthew 7:13- 29

      They choose only a certain portion that they agree with and skip the rest. Such fine cherry pickers.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • sam

      If it doesn't have the word 'carnal' in it, I don't want to hear it.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, get a grip on your ignorance and hatred for Christians. Jews were under the law. Gentile are under His grace. I'd explain that to you but, you atheists think you know everything.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Answer

      HeaventSent you're projecting once again. But that's your nature.

      Don't like it when someone points out stuff about your sad little life? Tough cookies.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • sam

      HS, you're going to get behind on feeding all 11,000 of your cats if you don't hurry and get back to it.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, sticks and stones. LOL.

      sam, useless as usual I read.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis and tornados, plus lupus, typhoid, meningitis, and other diseases and cancers too numerous to mention that have caused intense suffering to millions upon millions of people. Wow, god must be quite the cruel jerk.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
  20. Live4Him

    @sam stone : I am not a green stamp and I do not need redemption

    You've never made a mistake? You've never acted in a selfish manner? Come on, be truthful.

    February 12, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • sam stone

      of course i have. i do not equate that to needing redemption.

      February 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • lol??

      Stonehenge equates himself as being the great I WAS.

      February 12, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @sam stone : of course i have. i do not equate that to needing redemption.

      so, when someone does something wrong to you, they don't need forgiveness either?

      February 12, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • sam stone

      So, your god creates imperfect humans and these imperfect humans have to seek redemtion for the way god made them?

      Gosh, your god is a pr1ck

      February 12, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • sam stone

      are you equating a human being with human feelings to an omniscient, omnibenevolent god?

      February 12, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • lol??

      God did not create humans as needing a redeemer. You got confused when you leavened yer theology with 'lutin'.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Tommy

      You think that acting in a selfish manor means that someone else has to die so that you can be forgiven? Quite strange.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Oh look, Lie4Him is taking the Ray Comfort route.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Mort Darthur

      I need no redemption from a made-up fairytale for being human or for being born. Fake guilt trips are massively stupid.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • December

      A big hindrance between me and God is my lack of humility. I have to do some things to humble myself. It helps in attempting to understand God's ways.

      Declaring that God is a pr.ick, because he doesn't act how you would or how you think a God should act doesn't demonstrate humility.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Gus

      Well, December, fuck you and your infantile need for humility and fuck your psychopathic need for everyone else to also feel some "humility" according to whatever bullshit concept of "humility" you have in your stupid head.
      Your "god" doesn't exist. So all these proxy threats of yours are one of the most disgusting things you could do to another person on the internet. You really suck at being human and want us to follow your lead? Not gonna happen.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @sam stone : So, your god creates imperfect humans and these imperfect humans have to seek redemtion for the way god made them?

      Does God MAKE you act selfishly or do you do it of your own accord?

      @sam stone : are you equating a human being with human feelings to an omniscient, omnibenevolent god?

      We were created in His image, but we distorted that image later. So, yes, God has the "human feelings" of love.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Wow, Lie4Him is sure good at completely changing the scope of everything being talked about. Guess he took Luther really seriously.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Tommy : You think that acting in a selfish manor means that someone else has to die so that you can be forgiven?

      I think that when you someone wrong, you need to recompensate them. However, you have nothing that you can offer that is of equal worth. Only a perfect sacrifice will amend your actions. This sacrifice is Jesus.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Tommy

      Like I said, strange.

      February 12, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Gus

      Not strange, typical of those who have been brainwashed into psychosis. Typical. I see it all the time.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • ..

      Hubris is the disease-o-the-Month.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • December

      @Gus

      Humility is is the quality of being modest and respectful. It is an important trait for anyone, not just us who love God.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      If God is truly omnipotent, then anything considered a "sin" is just something God arbitrarily made up. If God cannot change what is a sin, He is not omnipotent.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Declaring that God is a pr.ick, because he doesn't act how you would or how you think a God should act doesn't demonstrate humility."

      Nor does declaring you know the mind of god

      February 12, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • December

      @ sam stone
      > Nor does declaring you know the mind of god

      I'm declaring that I need to humble myself if I want to even approach the mind of God.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • December

      @lunchbreaker

      What about free will??

      February 12, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Madtown

      We were created in His image, but we distorted that image later
      ------–
      Were we initially created perfect? A perfect being doesn't make mistakes, doesn't sin, doesn't distort images. Or, were we not created perfect, but created imperfect? Meaning, God just made us this way from the start, and thus we wouldn't need redeeming, 'cuz God intended us to be this way? Seems confusing.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Tommy

      December since you can't know the mind of god perhaps god wants you to do the exact opposite.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • December

      @Tommy
      > do the exact opposite.

      To strive to act arrogantly? I really don't thinks so.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Generation of the fig tree and too many bad figs are clueless to their eventual destruction.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Tommy

      Yeah, but you can't know for sure because you can't know the mind of god. You can't say nobody can know the mind of god, and in the same breath try and tell others how god wants us to act.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Gus

      @December
      "modest and respectful"? About what? Towards what? Why?
      Here's a clue for you, idiot: All morals are relative. For all you know, I'm more modest and respectful than you, yet you freely and ignorantly condemn others without knowing the truth.
      And part of the truth is that there are no gods that exist and your religion is total bullshit.
      I'd say you are the one filled with false pride as well as false humility, based upon scientific facts of the situation.
      Your hubris over your own humility is ironic and disgusting. Stop being so stupid. Oh, wait, you can't. Nevermind.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • December

      @Tommy

      Oh, I know I can't. But Jesus can.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Tommy

      So you admit that everything you say about god is mere speculation?

      February 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • December

      @Gus
      > "modest and respectful"? About what? Towards what? Why?

      I strive to be modest and respectful toward other human beings, because that is how I would like to be treated.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • December

      @ Tommy
      "So you admit that everything you say about god is mere speculation?"

      No. I have complete faith in what Jesus said and did.

      February 12, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Gus

      @December
      You wanted to be treated with subservience and worship? Typical religious nut. You don't respect me and no one needs your fake humility so go die in a fire already. If you respected other people, you'd want to understand them. You've already judged everyone in your little head, and couldn't care less about doing anything right, that much is clear.
      How can you respect what you do not know and don't care to know?
      How can you be humble over something you know nothing about?
      You are very stupid. You don't even appear able to think about what is real and what is not without your jesus-goggles, so how can I respect that? You don't give a shit about doing things right so why should I respect your insanity?
      You think you deserve religious freedom? I say people like you should be rounded up and put on a reservation and sterilized.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Tommy

      December, you can't be sure god didn't mean the bible as a big joke not to be taken seriously, or are you going to claim you know the mind of god now?

      February 12, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Gus

      STERILIZED!!!!

      February 12, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • December

      @Tommy
      > "...you can't be sure god didn't mean the bible as a big joke..."

      I know.

      > "...are you going to claim you know the mind of god now?"

      No.

      February 12, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • lol??

      Hey moronic bigots, you wanna tell Christians how to be and you don't even know diddle about the Faith? Here's a clue vegetable bwains. First Adam brought SIN. Second Adam made the payment, ya dumb clucks.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Tommy

      First Adam never existed, and therefore he couldn't sin, and the rest of your religion collapses like a house of cards.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • lol??

      Nope, but you lost all hope if YOU believe your BS, tombigot.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Tommy

      I haven't lost all hope. I still hope that one day you will learn to act like an adult.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, hurricanes, and tornados, plus lupus, typhoid, meningitis, and other diseases and cancers too numerous to mention that have caused intense suffering to millions upon millions of people. Wow, god must be quite the cruel jerk.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • lol??

      Well you can sing your hymn, "Tomb I Got, That's All". That'll soothe your senses.

      February 12, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony HeavenSent, I could bet on how simple you are.

      February 12, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.