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Comedian Sarah Silverman's sister, niece detained at Israel's Western Wall
Israeli police arrest American Rabbi Susan Silverman (L) and her teenage daughter Hallel Abramowitz (C) on Monday.
February 14th, 2013
05:03 AM ET

Comedian Sarah Silverman's sister, niece detained at Israel's Western Wall

By Sara Sidner, CNN

(CNN) - Anat Hoffman had no idea who comedian Sarah Silverman was until Silverman's sister and niece were detained with her Sunday in Jerusalem for wearing prayer shawls as they prayed at the Western Wall.

Police detained 10 women for "performing a religious act contrary to the local customs." The group of women, who call themselves the Women of the Wall, went to pray in Jewish shawls known as tallitot that Israeli law says only Jewish men can wear there.

FULL STORY
- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Israel • Jerusalem • Judaism

soundoff (308 Responses)
  1. truth be told

    All so called atheists are liars. Now their remarks can be put in proper perspective. Did a self deceived atheist say it? It's a lie !

    February 17, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Same old troll, same boring rhetoric....Next he'll post something saying that somehow I've proven it right.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • truth be told

      Actually you did, as you always do, page after page of so called atheist drivel proving without a reasonable doubt that all so called atheists are liars. Thanks for noticing.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Damocles

      @tbt

      Lay some more loving words down so I can pick them up and use them on the ones I love.

      26,500,000,000.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • == o ==

      "Now their remarks can be put in proper perspective." LOL.

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      and many other names, but of course it is . . .
      the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. "writer".

      February 17, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • Afternoon

      tbt
      Before you go into your atheists killed rant, got one for you. Re; Pope's..latino story..by John Blake...
      "He (Ratzinger) saw such an alliance between church and state destroy his native Germany, Catholic and Protestant leaders help put HITLER in power"
      Now he was in the Hitler Youth do you disregard what comes from one who was there?

      February 17, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • truth be told

      hitler was an atheist who deceived the entire German nation and the entire continent of Europe... for a short time. The hitler youth were trained in his new world order, nothing they were taught proved to be true, it was life altering and many ex nazis still try to "explain" away their own involvements.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • clarity

      Hitler was a Christian.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • truth be told

      As an atheist hitler was responsible for the deaths and murders of over 250 million peoples. Ratzinger was a small part of the weapon the atheist used, atheist Joe Stalin murdered over 60 million people, atheist Pol Pot murdered over 2 million people, atheist Mao is reported by some to have murdered over 800 million people... The list of atheist mass murderers is as long as the list of atheist rulers.
      In the last 100 years atheists have brutally tortured and murdered more innocent people than were killed in all previous centuries.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Afternoon

      tbt
      You are enti tled to your opinion but not your own facts, liar. Hitler was confirmed as a Catholic and even sang in the choir as a boy. While he was gaining power he played the church like a good con man would and the church leaders marched along in step in order to maintain their wealth and power. Your stupidty would be beyond belief if you did not continue to reaffirm it every day.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • clarity

      This idiot still lies. Hitler was a Christian.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told" but there is no data indicating that populations under totalitarian regimes have committed atrocities in the name of atheism. There is data indicating that segments of populations under different religions have committed atrocities in the name of their respective religions. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      February 17, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • lol??

      Clarity has found her angel of light in Hitler........"2Cr 11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."........A&A's are open for the deception reception.

      February 21, 2013 at 12:23 am |
  2. Science

    John Sorry you need to figure out god(s) did not make the air ypu suck in 24/7 for free.

    Peace

    February 17, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • John

      Seriously, my best friend is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, he made the air I breathe, he knew the sun would appear as sackcloth hair, and he knew the day 2000 years ago. That's a small sampling of what he knows and has done over all time, and he knows all time, all history, all people's births to death, and he's all powerful, patience beyond imagination, and forgiving like no other... but if you don't do what he asked... that's between you and him how it will turn out for you.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Okay, I'll play. How does the bible predict the day even though the hair thing is pure metaphor?

      February 17, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Damocles

      @john

      'but if you don't do what it asks.....' Mmmmm yes, nothing like the old implied threat routine to bring more sheep to the flock.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      John
      How sad for you that your best friend is imaginary.
      Maybe you could meet some people if you volunteered somewhere....

      February 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Science

      A blast John

      Peace

      February 17, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • clarity

      Now John – you're never going to make it in country music that way. You've got to add some things about love lost and flowers along the road and such; hard candy and scented tissue paper.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, did you hear? Dinosaur tracks have been found near NASA's Goddard Center in Greenbelt, MD.

      Guess that blows your theory out of the water.

      February 17, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50698154/ns/technology_and_science-science/

      February 17, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • End Religion

      That I have seen John hasn't yet given his delusional answer to the "to the day" part. He seems to have completely hinged everything on the fact NASA still photos make the sun kinda look like hair; forget that the sun isn't black and the world didn't end and the "hair" keeps morphing and moving around. Forget that the passage seems to be intended to say the sun turned dark, not that it turned into hair. None of that matters because the loon has found a plastic trinket in the Cracker Jacks of his feverish brain.

      February 18, 2013 at 8:49 pm |
    • John

      ER, the reason you don't comprehend what's going on, is that you chose to reject God. When I say that God can view history, start to finish, of anyone and everyone, it's the truth... birth to death... any part of the day... any day. So when the apostle wrote that the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, God already knew it. He knew it not just from knowing all the characteristics of the sun, but when we'd see it... and later when we figure out why the rich, great, and kings start moving into moutains, hiding in rocks, dens, etc... because they didn't know millions of degrees in braided filaments before... now they do... and a head of science what will it do?

      February 19, 2013 at 1:04 am |
    • End Religion

      OK, got it. Braided filaments. Kings in caves. Makes perfect sense. How are those Cracker Jacks?

      February 19, 2013 at 1:09 am |
  3. lol??

    Your supposed to wail and cry at the wall, not tell jokes. One would think they would skip it. I would.

    February 17, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      the wailing wall is one of the biggest jokes in Jewish traditions...you'd think they'd have a better sense of humor about it.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • Moby Schtick

      John, if metaphors were all it took to prove a story true then there are about 400 myths that are true that all conflict with each other. By your reasoning, the myth that says a great dragon swallowed the sun is true because that's sort of what it looks like when an eclipse occurs. How stupid can you be?

      And as far as celebrities go, they can prove that they exist and do so all the time. I don't really care about them, though, because nobody is telling me that my belief in Sandra Bullock's existence is going to earn me eternal pleasure or torture and affect people's lives around the world.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • John

      Moby, why do you bother reading about myths? You should be reading about the only God there is, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

      As far as celebs go, not one has ever proven themselves to anyone I know, ever. Meanwhile, God did.

      February 21, 2013 at 1:27 am |
  4. Bob

    Be careful of John in discussions here. He's a slippery one, and will make various attempts to change the subject and dodge what you present him with, rather than deal with the facts that his sky fairy is entirely fictional and that his bible is full of errors and contradictions.

    February 17, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • John

      Bob, when I read a math book and go through the proofs, I know the text is correct. It's the same thing with what God said, prove him right... and be a friend to God.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, it isn't.

      Stop with the bullish!t.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Moby Schtick

      Yet people of all religions use the same math. Hmmm... The bible offers no method by which to verify its claims with independent observation. If the bible were to do what math does, there'd be no other religion just like there's no other math. Muslim terrorists and christian extremists use the same math because they MUST; but they worship in whatever faction/denomination/cult because they CAN.

      If the bible offered the same sort of proof that math did, there'd be only one religion, and it would be one of the disciplines like chemistry or particle physics. The reality that the bible can be used to believe anything is proof that it is NOT a reliable source for anything.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Morning

      Godfathe, be my friend. John is that in the babble or did Mario Puzo write it.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • John

      Moby, what is the response when you ask all the Hollywood celebs to prove themselves to you, to show up at your residence and prove they exist as they say they are? Their reply would be the same, "who are you to ask me to prove myself to you?"

      The bible says "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair", yes, it did:
      http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/gallery/hic-cover1.html

      February 17, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      John- " prove him right". I might take that on if you could point me toward some relevant premises consistent with the ones we apply to mathematics and physical laws, along with sufficient evidence. I'd choose to start with a null hypothesis: the God of the Bible does not exist.

      But John, why don't you prove that your God exists (necessary before you can consider whether it said anything at all)? It is your God, after alll.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Damocles

      @john

      Wait, wait, wait... did you just argue that your deity is a stuck-up, can't-be-bothered-with-the-common-man pr1ck celebrity??

      February 17, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • Damocles

      The 'black as sackcloth' thing deals with the supposed end of days, not 'the sun is always like this.'

      February 17, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • John

      Damocles, where did you get the idea that God's sole purpose is to prove himself to everyone that rejects him?

      February 17, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • clarity

      Now I'm wondering which celebrities John worships besides his god.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • clarity

      The real question is, John, where did you get your idea about your God?

      February 17, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Damocles

      @john

      Again, I'll be the bigger person and allow you to have the all powerful, all knowing, all whatever deity that you so crave, now answer the question on how such a being can not get its message across to everyone.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • John

      Damocles, do you expect fishermen of 2000 years ago were more knowledgable than NASA scientists present day? How did a fisherman predict what we'd eventually see and why did he say God showed it to him if fishermen 2000 years ago already knew it?

      February 17, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why the fvck would an omniscient, omnipotent god be capable of predicting the future, and allow 20 children to be murdered in cold blood, John? Why can't you answer that?

      February 17, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Damocles

      Maybe I'm not typing in english. The quote that you are dragging around like a sadly dead horse is not describing the sun as it is, it is describing what that person thinks is going to happen at the end of days.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • John

      Damocles, God has already proven himself over and over and over and over... and you say it just isn't enough.... he has to do it for you too... just because you won't bother to believe ANYONE he's already proven himself to. How conceited are you anyway? You expect the creator of the entire universe, to bow to you and do magic tricks, just because you don't believe ANYONE he cared about, that cared about him, that he already proved himself to. Think about what you're saying/asking.

      Again with the lame example, do you see ANY celebrities proving themselves personally to every person on the planet? Why not?

      February 17, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • Damocles

      @john

      When I buy a car, I test drive a few. When I was looking into colleges, I looked at many. When I want something to eat, I run through the majority of choices I have before I pick something. When I want to wipe my butt, I look into what brand of TP offers the most comfort for the price. All of these things have to prove themselves to little old me, so unless you are saying your deity is less than the brand of TP I wipe my rear with, then, yes, it has to prove itself to me.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • John

      Damocles, the apostle said it, do you believe him?

      Tom, the young adult that shot them, played in violent virtual worlds where killing with no punishment was encouraged by.... who?
      Why don't you have any blame for them, but instead blame God for a virtual world he didn't create, but that some men did? In any case, every person that ever lived, breathed their last breath, when God took away the breath of life within them.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • Damocles

      @john

      No.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Afternoon

      John
      Can you explain why they, the bible babble fixers, changed thou shall not kill into thou shall not murder? Got to have those christian soldiers marching as to war to protect the wealth and power of church and state, perhaps?

      February 17, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So your omnipotent, all-seeing deity has no power over what men do? What good is he?

      February 17, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      John
      You are the one living in a virtual world that men created. You live in your bible, a device made by men, in which, they created god. That is the reality of it.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • John

      RC, the reality is that the bible accounts are true, and real, they really happened, no joke.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      John
      Men created your bible, they created your god within it, they told many stories, that were stolen from previous belief systems, and most of the stories in it never happened. The ark story (raiders of the lost ark is more likely to have happened), Jonah and the whale, David and Goliath, and that whole book of genesis thing, all are impossible.

      If your god exists, it is nothing like the bible says, otherwise your god is a mean, viscious creature.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • clarity

      The Bible accounts are extremely unfounded. Unknown authors. Even Joseph Smith & Related Families, Inc. has more evidence. And that's not very much at all at that.

      And you know, John, several early Christian apologists had to make a very poor excuse for the gospels looking like earlier pagan writings. They called it diabolical mimicry. That is, the devil wrote the earlier writings in advance of the gospels just to fool everyone and make it look like plagiarism had taken place. wink wink.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • Afternoon

      John
      And you know all the bible stories are true because your mommy told you so and you read it on a christian apologetics web site, is that right?

      February 17, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • John

      Tom, why do you say that God hasn't talked with anyone? There are multiple accounts in the bible where the witnesses said directly that God talked with them. Nothing the bible says shocks me at all, but for some reason you claim it's not possible. People you know talk to you each day, why do you feel it's impossible for God to talk to others? What evidence do you have that God is limited from talking to those he created, IF he wants to talk to them?

      February 17, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • fintastic

      John;

      As It has been stated, over and over and over again on these blogs... YOU are the one making the claim, YOU must provide the evidence. If I was making a claim that leprechauns exist, couldn't I ask you to prove they don't exist?

      FYI.. quotes from the bible are not evidence of god's existence. There is NO evidence that "god" spoke to people. It's simply mythology.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • fintastic

      should have typed...... "I couldn't ask you...."

      February 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • John

      Fin, no one has to give evidence for God existing, since he already did that himself. Both what he did and what he said about it, both prove he is God. I have reviewed both what he said and what he did, I accept that he is God. The eye witnesses discussed what they saw and heard, none of it surprises me and it all seems normal. If you want to know more about God, you need to read what he said, and decide for yourself what you think about it. If you give God the benefit of the doubt, you're on you way to being there.

      February 18, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • clarity

      John, since there has been no evidence for God so far, you would need to come up with some to show or continue to sound delusional. If you have any proof of anything to attribute any possible deity, then I'm sure you can share that with us. Of course I know you will continue to slink away from this challenge. You have presented nothing so far except circular reasoning/self-fulfilling references for the god of your religion. That is certainly no kind of evidence.

      February 18, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • John

      Clarity, your claim is that God has to prove himself to YOU today, because yesterday, the day before, etc... are all invalid. This would be like telling all celebs that they have to personally prove who they are, in person, to every person on the planet, every day, or they can't do their job, what ever it is, to be a celeb. It's ridiculous. That is why God did a few things in the past, and you either believe him and potentially later know him, or you don't if you reject him. God has 33% of 7 billion people living today, and people that died prior, some percentage of those. What is one person walking off, when there are billions more available? If what he did before isn't enough, that is something you'll have to take up with him at a later time.

      February 18, 2013 at 8:49 pm |
    • Google Translator

      Translation of John's posts: "I don't have any evidence, so I will claim God already left the evidence I don't have."

      February 18, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
    • Flushing John

      So omnipotent god is too busy? Kinda contradicts the whole concept of omnipotence, doesn't it.

      He has billions already, so he doesn't mind not getting a few? That's awfully sloppy for a perfect being.

      February 18, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    • John

      FJ, God could instantly create an infinite number of beings that love him, but what good is it if they didn't chose to love him of their own free will? It would be like marrying a pillow and claiming that's love because it's always there for you, when the pillow has no mind of it's own to chose to be there.

      February 18, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's CHOOSE. And it's "ITS OWN".

      Why are all you fundies such dumbbells?

      February 18, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • Flushing John

      Why would a god need any sycophants, much less billions of them, free will of not? That's very insecure and shallow of him.

      February 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm |
    • John

      It's pretty clear that God likes to make things and watch them explore the world. When it comes to man, he likes having some of us find him. It's his creation, he can do whatever he wants with it.

      February 21, 2013 at 12:20 am |
  5. Science

    John

    Maybe you should learn the 5 Laws of Evolution.

    Peace

    February 17, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • John

      Your "evolution" gods don't do anything. There is no "local environment" god, there is no "creature" god, there is no "time" god, making the animals... God made them all. He made what ever he wanted when ever he wanted to.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sure, John. And he stood around and watched 20 kids get shot to death.

      You're so full of sh!t.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • Damocles

      @john

      What in the blue blazes is an evolution deity??

      Timexus the mighty, ruler of time. Bow down, least he age you into the grave.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • lol??

      Lamey laws and most are self evident!! A law fer today:Evolutionists think like children at times and at the end of times.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • clarity

      end of times – care to back that superstition up idiot lol?? can you do anything but belch the unfounded folklore of Patmos?

      February 17, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • John

      Clarity, your assumption is that everyone is either lying, lunatic, or dreaming when they say they know God is there. In the case of the apostle with the statement about the sun with sackcloth hair appearance, he was right... and right to the day. The same way that I know God is right, know it, is the same way that I know you won't figure it out, or realize people are telling you the truth, because you didn't bother to believe God, or do what he said to do... and you then blame everyone else for you not doing what you were supposed to do in the first place. That is lame.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Then, John, God must know you are ineffectual. Why come here and prove it to everyone else?

      February 17, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Damocles

      @john

      I guess you think repeating repeating the same thing over and over again again makes it true. It it does not. Are you this hung up on the sackcloth thing? 'Ohhhhhhhh the bible mentions something about hair and ohhhhh close-up pictures of the sun look like hair when viewed in a certain light. By gosh and by golly the bible is true true.'

      February 17, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • clarity

      Wow – I didn't realize I was dealing such a lunatic. Try again Johnny. Regarding your sackcloth, I'll just repeat what "A Frayed Knot" wrote below which sufficient answers your delirium: "John, Google images of lunar and solar eclipses, which have occurred since time immemorial, even in those supersti'tion-riddled Middle Eastern Hebrew times."

      Also, John – did you realize that early apologists had to ward off claims that the gospel stories had copied earlier pagan writings? Yes, and the best answer they could come up with was that it was plagiarism by anticipation on the part of Satan to confuse everyone. wink wink.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • John

      Tom, if you're claiming I'm not good enough, and no one God sent before was good enough, and they were the best he'd sent before I told you... then your claim will be what... that God didn't send anyone sufficient enough to tell you?

      February 17, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      John
      God sent people (what about their free will, did he just ignore it to suit his purpose then?)
      Which is it, god sends people or god respects free will? can't be both

      February 17, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Damocles

      @john

      Why in the world does a deity need mouthpieces? Again you limit your deity. Shameful.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • tallulah13

      John, every true believer of every god ever worshiped by humanity felt the same certainty that you do, but there has never been a single shred of evidence to support the existence of any of those gods, even yours. Belief does not make real.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • John

      RC, it's not just you reading this. There are some that believe, and some that are unsure. You and others are coming on here saying basically that you don't believe God or anyone he sent. That is your's and other's claim. Believers then say no, you're wrong and why. Everyone, including you, has the free will to believe, or not, and may or may not be influenced by anything said at the time. Why do you expect God to not send anyone to say he's right as you slander him?

      February 17, 2013 at 7:32 pm |
    • John

      Damocles, why does God need mouthpeices? That's simple, God is all powerful, knowing the end from the beginning. The belief in God, or not, is basically a negotiation, where it should be win-win, but some decide they don't want it to be that. One side has all the time, power, and knows the end result... you can't negotiate with that... because you're weak, powerless, and have a limited time here... but you can negotiate with a peer... so he sends peers to tell you who you're going to be dealing with later if you don't figure it out and get to work doing what he wanted you to do.

      February 17, 2013 at 7:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, if anyone who doubted could be convinced by your posts, he/she would be an exemplar of Barnum's assertion that a sucker is born every minute.

      Anyone who depends on YOU for information is lost already.

      February 17, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • John

      Tom, you are offering people the false hope of "nothing" saving them and/or "nothing" being a god making everything. You're the one suckering people with "nothing" under the cup.

      February 17, 2013 at 7:58 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      On the contrary, atheists have all of reality. Believers may have their belief, but they can't demonstrate that it's anything other than nothing. I'll keep all reality over "nothing" that the believers are offering any day.

      February 17, 2013 at 8:01 pm |
    • John

      Moby, in the negotiation you're offering God, it's a lose-lose, you're telling God first of all that you don't believe him, and to get your belief, he has to prove himself what, every day for the rest of your life, and he has to not tell you what he wants you to do, and he has to scrap everything he wants... just to "win" in the way you defined. But you can't do that, because God as I said, has all eternity to negotiate, he has all the power, and he knows the end result from the beginning... so you can't offer God a "lose-lose" negotiation and expect him to negotiate with you. If you offer a "win-win", yes, he might negotiate with you. God defined what a "win" consists of. God has a desire for "win-win" results, where you do what he wanted, and what ever you want within that. If step outside that, you won't be able to negotiate in that realm, because he like I said, has all the time, power and knows the end result.

      February 17, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      If god is everything you say he is, then my belief and faith is irrelevant and he should be glad that I'm not believing some stupid, inconsistent myth with no verifiable evidence.

      February 17, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
    • John

      Moby, God has already sent multiple eye witnesses, even recent stuff to help you know he's there. The sun with sackcloth of hair is just this last month, and you reject him being right about that too. You're offering God a "lose-lose" and that's why he doesn't want to bother with such when there are so many "win-win" opportunities out there. 33% of 7 billion people believe Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God. What are you offering God that he can't already get somewhere else?

      February 17, 2013 at 8:37 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      I assume that god can have anything he wants, so I guess I'm offering everything. I don't believe in any of the gods described to me so far, though. Good luck on your jesus trip.

      February 17, 2013 at 8:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Tom, you are offering people the false hope of "nothing" saving them and/or "nothing" being a god making everything. You're the one suckering people with "nothing" under the cup."

      You fvcking moron, I'm not offering anyone false hope. You are. You are lying when you claim that you "know" anything about a god or eternity. I simply don't do that. I don't know. I don't like about it as you do.

      Shame on you, you charlatan.

      February 17, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
    • John

      Tom, did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, all the people in the bible were telling the truth about God? Did that thought ever cross your mind? Look at the 12 apostles, they got NOTHING out of walking around with Jesus, in fact, they lost their livelyhoods and got no payment for walking around with Jesus. When the one made a deal with the high priests to turn in Jesus for a bag of coins, he later hanged himself rather than spend the money. He thought he wanted money, then realized his mistake and killed himself. How much did he really want the money? How much did any want money? As actual fishermen, they could have worked, raised a family, maybe ran a business and lived well. Why would they give it up to walk around with Jesus for nothing? If God was not active then, why say it for nothing? Jesus did what God sent him to do, and God was active then, and did do the miracles they described.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
    • fintastic

      @john wrote "Why do you expect God to not send anyone to say he's right as you slander him?"

      Very simple answer John, and I want you to think very hard about this.... we (Atheists) don't expect ANYTHING because we don't believe god exists. The threats of burning in a lake of fire, the talking snake, the flood that never happened, none of it... there is not one shred of evidence to support ANY of it.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • John

      Fin, a local flood killing everyone in a valley, is not unheard of. The serpent, Jesus called the Pharisees and Saducees a brood of vipers... this because what was coming out of their mouth, was spiritual poison... which it was for Adam and Eve in the garden. A lake of fire, that depends on where God puts them... a lot of existing choices, or make one new.

      February 18, 2013 at 8:35 pm |
    • clarity

      John- "Tom, did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, all the people in the bible were telling the truth about God? "

      Well they couldn't sell a boring story, John.

      John – "Jesus called the Pharisees and Saducees a brood of vipers..."

      You didn't get the memo, John?

      The Bible accounts are extremely unfounded. Unknown authors. Even Joseph Smith & Related Families, Inc. has more evidence. And that's not very much at all at that.

      And you know, John, several early Christian apologists had to make a very poor excuse for the gospels looking like earlier pagan writings. They called it diabolical mimicry. That is, the devil wrote the earlier writings in advance of the gospels just to fool everyone and make it look like plagiarism had taken place. wink wink. And then if you start comparing the Gnostic gospels – well watch out – you just wind up with a huge unfounded mess.

      February 18, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • John

      Clarity, the gospels are much the same as Joseph being taken by his brothers, thrown in a pit, and sold to slave traders. Joseph explained to his brothers that it was set up by God for this, to save others, not just them when the famine arrived in Egypt. In the case of Jesus, he was also taken by his brothers, the Jewish high priests and others, and he was delivered to be crucified, a common form of punishment at the time... 2000 Jews being crucified near the time of his birth. Romans used crucifixtion to punish people... get with history... figure it out. Jesus told them he would die for the sins of others... that it wasn't a physical saving. It wasnt' like Joseph saving people physically after being tossed in a pit and sold to slave traders. And that too, Jesus was sold to the high priests by Judas, one of the apostles... similar to Joseph being sold.

      You claiming a punishment being similar to another person punished... well great, then anyone shot, is a false report, because someone else was shot once before centuries ago, and all the rest are fake accounts of people being shot and it couldn't happen.
      Wow.... I'm not impressed.

      February 18, 2013 at 9:07 pm |
    • clarity

      could have been 'similar to'. Or could have not been at all. We actually don't know. One can choose to accept the gospel version in the Bible blindly without having any reasonable evidence or, one can see it for what it is – unfounded folklore. But it is quite telling that, rather than keep mum about it, the early Christian apologists excused the copy-cat character of the Biblical gospel stories only by blaming it on the devil. Quite telling.

      February 18, 2013 at 9:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I just love it when a witless moron like John cites the Bible as proof of ... the Bible.

      You don't know whether there WERE any apostles, John. You believe there were because you read it in a bible. Don't claim to know it as a fact-you don't.

      That's what is galling about people like you. You lie about "proof" and "evidence" when there isn't any that can be verified. Why can't you simply state that you believe in something? That you have to lie about it being a fact just makes you look dishonest.

      February 18, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
    • fintastic

      @John..........."Fin, a local flood killing everyone in a valley, is not unheard of."

      Yea, except wasn't that supposed to be a worldwide flood?

      February 19, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • John

      It's like eden, just the local land was changed from a wilderness, to a garden. You can confirm this by noticing that Cain went off and married someone in another town. For the flood... same thing.

      February 20, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
    • No

      The Bible specifically states that everything under the heavens was submerged. That makes it world-wide.

      There is no mention in the Bible of any other villages (which would pretty much wipe out the whole creation story up to that point), nor of where Cain and Abel got their wives. Your assertions are totally free of textual support.

      February 20, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • John

      It plainly says that Cain left the area and found a wife, clearly it was the local land that he left. The flood is no different.

      February 21, 2013 at 12:02 am |
    • John

      I know how it is, you desperately want it to say Eden was some world wide garden, and the flood came along and wiped it out, over the entire world, so you can write off the accounts. But... it's not like that. Cain found a wife after he left the local area. The flood was local.

      And Adam... he was someone God formed right there in that wilderness, along with the garden of Eden. Similar to Jesus being formed within Mary... same thing.

      February 21, 2013 at 12:08 am |
  6. Science

    The END IS NEAR !!! John and Scott Please note: 100's of Millions of Years.......

    A War Without End, With Earth's Carbon Cycle Held in the Balance

    Feb. 13, 2013 — The greatest battle in Earth's history has been going on for hundreds of millions of years – it isn't over yet – and until now no one knew it existed, scientists reported Feb. 13 in the journal Nature.

    Peace
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130213132323.htm

    February 17, 2013 at 7:36 am |
    • John

      God is older than the universe, and he created all of it. Your "nothing" and "evolution" gods didn't do anything.

      February 17, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • clarity

      You don't know the first thing about that, John. A firm belief – perhaps.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:01 am |
    • John

      I know he exists

      February 17, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • clarity

      Well then prove it! We'd all love to see you try.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • John

      God proves himself to who ever he wants to prove himself to... typically someone that loves him. And if you don't care about him, the chance he'll let you understand anything he's said, is low... or nil. That said, you can read what he told the apostle about the sun became black as sackcloth of hair... which it did recently. He knew to the day... he knows it all. God is the most incredible being in existence, and it's an honor to be his friend. No better honor.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • Really?

      The fact that archaeological evidence confirms that Jehu was an actual historical character confirms only that he was an actual historical character. It does not confirm the historical accuracy of everything that the Bible attributed to him. Did a "son of the prophets" go to Ramoth-gilead and anoint Jehu king of Israel while the reigning king was home in Jezreel recovering from battle wounds (2 Kings 9:1-10)? Did Jehu then ride to Jezreel in a chariot and massacre the Israelite royal family and usurp the throne (2 Kings 9:16 ff)? We simply cannot determine this from an Assyrian inscription that claimed Jehu paid tribute to Shalmaneser, so in the absence of disinterested, nonbiblical records that attest to these events, it is hardly accurate to say that archaeology has proven the historicity of what the Bible recorded about Jehu. Likewise, extrabiblical references to Nebuchadnezzar may confirm his historical existence, but they do not corroborate the accuracy of such biblical claims as his dream that Daniel interpreted (Dan. 2) or his seven-year period of insanity (Dan. 4:4-37). To so argue is to read entirely too much into the archaeological records.

      The Moabite Stone, for example, corroborates the biblical claim that there was a king of Moab named Mesha, but the inscription on the stone gives a different account of the war between Moab and the Israelites recorded in 2 Kings 3. Mesha's inscription on the stone claimed overwhelming victory, but the biblical account claims that the Israelites routed the Moabite forces and withdrew only after they saw Mesha sacrifice his eldest son as a burnt offering on the wall of the city the Moabites had retreated to (2 Kings 3:26-27). So the Moabite Stone, rather than corroborating the accuracy of the biblical record, gives reason to suspect that both accounts are biased. Mesha's inscription gave an account favorable to the Moabites, and the biblical account was slanted to favor the Israelites. The actual truth about the battle will probably never be known.

      A notable example would be the account of Joshua's conquest and destruction of the Canaanite city of Ai. According to Joshua 8, Israelite forces attacked Ai, burned it, "utterly destroyed all the inhabitants," and made it a "heap forever" (vs:26-28). Extensive archaeological work at the site of Ai, however, has revealed that the city was destroyed and burned around 2400 B. C., which would have been over a thousand years before the time of Joshua. Joseph Callaway, a conservative Southern Baptist and professor at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, spent nine years excavating the ruins of ancient Ai and afterwards reported that what he found there contradicted the biblical record.

      The evidence from Ai was mainly negative. There was a great walled city there beginning about 3000 B. C., more than 1,800 years before Israel's emergence in Canaan. But this city was destroyed about 2400 B. C., after which the site was abandoned.

      Despite extensive excavation, no evidence of a Late Bronze Age (1500-1200 B. C.) Canaanite city was found. In short, there was no Canaanite city here for Joshua to conquer (Biblical Archaeology Review, "Joseph A. Callaway: 1920-1988," November/December 1988, p. 24, emphasis added).

      This same article quoted what Callaway had earlier said when announcing the results of his nine-year excavation of Ai.

      Archaeology has wiped out the historical credibility of the conquest of Ai as reported in Joshua 7-8. The Joint Expedition to Ai worked nine seasons between 1964 and 1976... only to eliminate the historical underpinning of the Ai account in the Bible (Ibid., p. 24).

      Archaeological silence is another problem that biblical inerrantists don't like to talk about. According to the Bible, the Israelite tribes were united into one nation that had a glorious history during the reigns of king David and his son Solomon, yet the archaeological record is completely silent about these two kings except for two disputed inscriptions that some think are references to "the house of David." This is strange indeed considering that references to Hebrew kings of much less biblical importance (Omri, Ahab, Jehu, Zedekiah, etc.) have been found in extrabiblical records. This archaeological silence doesn't prove that David and Solomon did not exist, but it certainly gives all but biblical inerrantists pause to wonder.

      Another case in point is the biblical record of the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and their subsequent 40-year wandering in the Sinai wilderness. According to census figures in the book of Numbers, the Israelite population would have been between 2.5 to 3 million people, all of whom died in the wilderness for their disobedience, yet extensive archaeological work by Israeli archaeologist Eliezer Oren over a period of 10 years "failed to provide a single shred of evidence that the biblical account of the Exodus from Egypt ever happened"

      Gods are not real.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • clarity

      Typical cop-out answer. You simply cannot provide one spec of reasonable evidence for your belief other than the words you type. And so it goes with any other believer who has bought into any one of the myriad of different myths that mankind has invented for himself.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:32 am |
    • clarity

      And no "Really", there is not any solid proof of the existence of Jesus – where did you get that idea from?

      February 17, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "he told the apostle about the sun became black as sackcloth of hair... which it did recently. He knew to the day."

      You keep repeating this as if it meant something. Are you perhaps suffering from Asperger's? Perseverating is one of the symptoms.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Damocles

      @john

      So the deity only shows itself to those that believe? How very convienent.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Saraswati

      @John,

      "God proves himself to who ever he wants to prove himself to... typically someone that loves him. And if you don't care about him, the chance he'll let you understand anything he's said, is low... or nil."

      A lot of you guys say this, or something very like it. But have you ever taken a day or two to really sit back and examine whether or not it makes sense? Of course, one might argue that if you aren't open to the possibility of being wrong the possibility that you will do this is "low...or nil".

      You assume that you have to love someone before you even know they exist for that being to prove his existence. You further assume that this backwards activity (contrary to every other action known) is necessary because you couldn't understand or accept god without first being open to him or loving him.

      That assumption is necessary on your part to justify the backwards logic. But the truth is it makes no sense. 99.9% of the population, if faces with a god who opened up the heavens and landed in front of them and an audience of thousands would accept this new reality. Visual evidence is humans main means of assessment, and with multiple witnesses beside us and a good video shot of course we'd all accept it. Your god just isn't willing to do that, and you have to make up stories to justify that action, since it doesn't make sense.

      I challenge you to take a day, just one day, to really think about this one issue. Don't bother with other arguments or concerns until you've thought this through. I'm not even arguing there is no god, just that the god you imagine doesn't make sense and that you are conning yourself logically into believing things that even you would not believe with an objective perspective.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • John

      Sara, go look at the Hi-C NASA imaging pictures of the sun. It looks like the apostle described 2000 years ago, the sun with black sackcloth hair... like goat hair... how'd he know and why'd he say God showed it to him? Coincidence? What are the odds of him saying that and it being right? It's ridiculous to think the apostle guessed it and then gave credit to God for his guess. That's just one thing... it's incredible how many proofs there are of God... you have no idea. God exists, he's there, you just don't know it and think everyone else is imagining he's there... no joke, he's there.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, you bozo, you could take ANY book, find a phrase, and make believe that there is some facet of your life that matches it exactly, and conclude that therefore, the author must be all-knowing.
      If you were stupid, that is–and you certainly fill that bill.

      You continue to yap about the sun, sackcloth, goat hair, NASA, Hi-C, and other crap as though it proved something. It does not.

      You wish it would. You pretend it does. That's called belief. Not fact.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • John

      Sara, a last thing about the apostle saying the sun became like black sackcloth of hair, other than you and others being told that God had it right to the day, you if you have any college background, have had a statistics course, right? And if so, and you claim to be more intelligent than a "believer" or even lets say the fisherman 2000 years ago that said it, you can do a statistic calculation to prove the odds of him being right. The problem is though: context. The apostle could have chosen ANY context, he could have said the sun became like a green egg that cracked, or a purple chicken, or a blue rock, or a smoking tree, or his sandal dripping after walking in the river, or a wheel rolling through town, or a bowl of heaped food, or pick anything and the apostle would have gotten it wrong. The odds go to infinity when context is included in the odds calculation, because a wrong guess, is completely wrong. He had to pick the right context first, then the odds can be calculated for him to guess it right.

      Hair on the sun? How'd he know?

      God showed him... and got the day right, 2000 years ago.

      February 17, 2013 at 11:59 pm |
    • clarity

      The gullilble4Him parrot doesn't know how to provide the first reasonable piece of evidence for his god. Squawk and repeat mythological hogwash is John's specialty.

      February 18, 2013 at 9:06 pm |
    • John

      Clar, God exists, and he's the best.

      February 20, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
  7. End Religion

    John has finally provided proof for hair on the sun. Enjoy!

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPylI9t1cMw&w=640&h=390]

    February 17, 2013 at 3:48 am |
  8. Scott

    End Religion, you write ,"John please provide empirical evidence for your angels. Ah-thang-yew vawy much". Grow a cortex please. I assune you probably work, yet you have no "empiracal" evidence that you will be paid for your services, only historical perspective. Why? Because no one relies on "empiracal" evidence for daily decisions and choices. There is no "empiracal" evidence that you will be here tomorrow to wipe your butt, but you probably went ahead and spent the money for toilet paper.....you are making these choices on historical evidence. Why now do you raise the bar?

    Simon Greenleaf, Dean of Harvard believed in Christ. Are you his superior intellectually? Isaac Newton said Gravity was the mind of Christ. Is your mind more accute than his? The list for those who estblished scientific dsiciplines who believed in Christ goes on and on. What discipline have you established? You are obdurate and small, yet you think you are wise. Please search your heart and open your mind.

    February 17, 2013 at 3:33 am |
    • End Religion

      Still waiting on the empirical evidence for your god, your jesus, et al. Your bible is a fraud. I understand it is heart-breaking and difficult for you to grasp. I've seen commercials for this and I don't know what it is but they promise to exercise pea brains like yours.... maybe give it a whirl? http://www.lumosity.com

      February 17, 2013 at 3:45 am |
    • John

      ER, empirical evidence includes that which is observed. As I pointed out, there were multiple eye witnesses there with Jesus, and they wrote up what they saw and heard. Some of the government leaders at the time that the eye witnesses mentioned are part of recorded history and they can be verified to have existed. There are tombs for some of the minor players in the accounts. But really, the words, they are big time evidence, because coupled with belief, the words link to God, and that's what it's all about, both then and now.

      February 17, 2013 at 4:34 am |
    • End Religion

      I don't know how many times a day we point this out but there is not one single credible eyewitness for your jesus. There may have been some guy who claimed miracles running around at that time, as apparently there quite a few religious kooks as there are today, but even if we accept this person existing you're not one inch closer to having evidence for divinity.

      Even Christopher Hitchens is willing to accept there may have been some dude running around claiming he was the son of god. He's willing to grant almost all of your myth. It simply isn't proof of anything. Indeed the fact that a census was imagined in order to get this "son of god" kook into Bethlehem seems to lend credence to the idea the jesus story is mostly fabrication.

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjcWkhqScBI&w=640&h=390]

      February 17, 2013 at 4:56 am |
    • John

      ER, my recollection is that 2000 Jews were crucified after Herod the Great died and his sons took over. They rebelled and many died. When it calmed back down, they had to be registered to know who was still living, in each of the regions the sons were taking over. This is history... factual history... and it aligns with the gospel accounts.

      The only issue you can claim, is rejection of God's miracles during the time Jesus was there. But then the Torah also discusses miracles of other prophets... so you have to reject them as well... all those witnesses have to be liars, delusional, or dreaming, so you can feel good about rejecting God.... just because that's what you want. And God is more than happy to harden your heart each time you're told how his word is correct.

      February 17, 2013 at 5:16 am |
    • End Religion

      Again, no census, no miracles, no god. Why has your heart been hardened against these truths?

      February 17, 2013 at 7:18 am |
    • John

      ER, you traded the best friend you could ever have, for nothing.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • clarity

      Best friends best come from reality, not some unfounded ancient folklore that was created to control and deceive, John.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:07 am |
    • John

      You'll spend the rest of your life wondering why anyone cares about God, and I'll know why you do that.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You must be a hoot at dinner parties, Johnny.

      What a dweeb.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:31 am |
    • Whackaloon for jesus....pull out you wallet and take his hand!

      Yeah...you re on the money there Scott.. *wink*

      Newton was limited be the knowlege of his time..... He was also convinced astrology was real and that alchemy – specificly lead changed to gold given the right chemicals.

      your dean there is probably a very smart man..yes no doubt...but very smart men are not immune to delusions..... and are as capable as anyone to lie, to support a lie..... for many reasons.....

      name dropping is useless.....

      February 17, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • End Religion

      John, one last question for now... you occasionally say "to the day" when you give your spiel about our hairy sun. What exactly are you referring to? If the "end of days" prophecy was a specific day then the world would have ended and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Or is it your contention the end of days goes on for a certain period of time and it has begun, coincidentally on the day you discovered NASA's photos?

      February 17, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      ".but very smart men are not immune to delusions..... and are as capable as anyone to lie, to support a lie..... for many reasons....."

      Yes.

      - and to Scott:

      Guess what? We learn to figure out what can be verified before we accept the words or philosophies of *any* man.

      – Aristotle had some great ideas which have been verified to be useful and beneficial to us, but you should read how he thought that human conception occurred (!); and he believed that thinking occurred in the region around the heart and not in the brain.

      – Isaac Newton was heavily into alchemy (The Philosopher's Stone!), numerology and the occult.

      – Brilliant Nikola Tesla thought that a visiting pigeon was his wife.

      Verify, verify, verify. There is not a whit of verified evidence for any of the supernatural beings or events told about by men in The Bible nor anywhere else.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
  9. Sara Howells

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcyW7rMYR7A&w=640&h=390]
    .

    February 16, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • Freespeak

      Hey Sara show us your flapjacks! We'll give you a necklace of beads in return!

      February 16, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
  10. Vger

    They will be assimilated.

    February 16, 2013 at 1:47 am |
    • Here Now

      They should have bared their flapjacks. That would've made some eyes pop.

      February 16, 2013 at 1:56 am |
  11. John

    When Jesus showed up, the "police" at the time took him away too, at the command of the high priests. I'm not saying what the women did was right or wrong, but I don't recall anything saying a woman can't pray to God if she wants to, anywhere... though Jesus did recommend praying to God in private, or you'll have your reward in having been seen by others. Regardless, God is not a wall, or a rock, or a building. Pray to God, he exists.

    February 16, 2013 at 12:40 am |
    • End Religion

      You're aware Jesus didn't exist, right?

      February 16, 2013 at 1:47 am |
    • John

      History records that Jesus existed at the time. The gospels say he was born during the reign of Herod Archelaus, the same ruler that killed thousands. His father, Herod, had died in 4 BC and his sons, named Herod too, they ruled the land that was split up after his death. Herod Archelaus was later banished in 6 AD, the same time that the angel told Joseph to go back, that he was finished and all that wanted Jesus killed, were themselves, dead. Jesus then went with his family each year after they returned, and at 12, he stayed behind at the temple to talk with others... not far from where they arrested the women. History repeats... now high priests having women arrested by police, for wanting to pray to God. But God is not inside a wall...

      February 16, 2013 at 1:57 am |
    • Here Now

      Trolling again? Tsk tsk.

      February 16, 2013 at 1:59 am |
    • End Religion

      My mistake, John, I thought you were aware of the facts. FYI, Jesus didn't exist. You're citing unsubstantiated garbage.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:07 am |
    • John

      Fishing with a net, or by trolling... either or can work, yes.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:08 am |
    • John

      Herod the Great, and his sons named Herod, are well established history. The gospels do mention them, as well as Pilate and others, including Tiberius... all recorded history. The gospels match so well, that you have to make up stuff to deny them matching. Skeptics have to hide in a hole and deny everything else but their own existence... that's sad.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:14 am |
    • End Religion

      You may want to read:
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/09/my-take-a-word-to-christians-be-nice/comment-page-51/#comment-2173770

      February 16, 2013 at 2:20 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      John, a friend of mine recently published a scholarly book about Abraham Lincoln. He could have added to it that Lincoln could fly, impregnated a thousand virgins in one night, was slain by the Ghost of Aaron Burr, and will return one day during America's darkest hour. If he had, the parts based on his careful scholarship would have been verifiable and acceptable as truth and we could ignore the rest. The New Testament is like that, but a lot of time has passed and we don't know what to keep and what to throw out. Best not to accept the extraordinary parts.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:22 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      John
      "Fishing with a net, or by trolling... either or can work, yes."

      An internet troll refers more to the mythological ogres who live under bridges and come out to bother people.

      If the are 'fishing' for anything, it's for an argument.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:23 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      p.s. also, I noticed that you didn't mention fishing with an attractive lure or bait, all the better to hook the hapless creatures so that they can be killed and used for food, fertilizer or other products. Fisher of men, indeed...

      February 16, 2013 at 2:27 am |
    • John

      ER, the skeptic sites are full of errors. Read an encyclopedia, or factual information of actual history:

      - Herod the Great, died in 4 BC
      - Herod Archealaus, son of Herod the Great, ruled from 4 BC to 6 AD, in the same area where Jesus was born, the same ruler that killed thousands, later banished in 6 AD, the same time the angel told Joseph to go back, that Archelaus was finished and all that wanted Jesus dead in Israel, were themselves dead.

      The other sons of Herod, Herod Antipas, and Herod Phillip, they're recorded history too, and they're mention in the gospels as well... and history is just that... history... accurate... and you and other skeptics have to make stuff up to deny history, because you don't want to know God is there.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:28 am |
    • End Religion

      Ah, I think I have it now. You base your history on angels. You're aware angels don't exist, right?

      February 16, 2013 at 2:31 am |
    • John

      Tom, that's the thing about this, you accept the history as being accurate, but "no miracles of God". ER denies actual history, or appears to be doing that, to justify his skepticism. The history is verifiable and aligns very well with the actual events going on at the time. You're left with denying "miracles of God", just because you claim it's not possible for God to exist, or because he didn't prove himself to you first, you won't budge and believe him, first.

      For those that believe the Torah, or Old Testament, they're left with a prophet showing up that they ignore, Jesus. That prophet used the same power of God they believe other prophets used at the time. Jesus called that power of God, the Holy Spirit, or spirit of God. But like God telling Pharaoh, through Moses, God hardened Pharaoh's heart after each time he proved he is God. It's much the same for the high priests then during Jesus's time... God hardened the high priests heart... as Jesus used the spirit of God, to tell those he preached to, that God exists.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:45 am |
    • John

      ER, angels exist, and if you bite one on the ear, he might strike you on the leg... causing you to limp before you can meet your brother.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:51 am |
    • End Religion

      John please provide empirical evidence for your angels. Ah-thang-yew vawy much.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:57 am |
    • John

      ER, both the Torah and the New Testament, both mention angels existing. There are also present day eye witness accounts, recently a congressman said he was in a hospital close to death and 2 angels showed up to ask if he was ready to go yet. Argue with him if you doubt angels existing. God exists, angels exist... if you're against God, you're against the one that formed the entire universe... you won't win.

      February 16, 2013 at 3:05 am |
    • End Religion

      John it is painfully obvious you don't know what evidence actually is. Your god, jesus, angels, demons, hell, heaven, none of it exists. Your bible is a fraud, full of nonsense reporting exactly like you and your congressman. And you have the audacity to tell us lying is s sin...

      February 16, 2013 at 3:11 am |
    • John

      ER, I have the audacity to tell you there is clothing on the sun, that God knew it, and the day as well.... and if he wants pancakes, I will not argue with him... that would be dumb.

      February 16, 2013 at 3:31 am |
    • End Religion

      I didn't think it'd be long before you fell back into quoting scripture or yakking about clothing on the sun. Thanks for helping create more atheists!

      February 16, 2013 at 4:23 am |
    • John

      ER, it's like thread, the braided filaments, they twist per thread... and hair... who would know it 2000 years ago? Who had been there to know it?

      February 16, 2013 at 5:27 am |
    • End Religion

      I see. The sun is clothed in hair. Are you sure you're not looking at an albino yeti? Are you drinking absinthe by chance?

      February 16, 2013 at 5:37 am |
    • John

      ER, I know God is right because of what he said. And those same words, because you reject him, those same words leave you confused and wondering why anyone would believe him, or believe he exists. God exists, I'm telling you the truth, he exists.

      February 16, 2013 at 5:51 am |
    • John

      AFK, Jesus was not an attractive lure, he didn't wear special robes and such like the high priests. And Jesus told them that God was doing the works... much like Moses told them God was doing the works. God simply hardened their hearts so they wouldn't catch on... so he could pay for others sins that would believe him.

      February 16, 2013 at 6:06 am |
    • End Religion

      Moses, Jesus, God, all mythology. None of them existed. None of them were clothed.

      February 16, 2013 at 6:10 am |
    • John

      ER, Jesus showing up was like Joseph and his brothers that threw him in the pit and sold him to slave traders. It was known by God ahead of time, because by Joseph being treated that way, many others could be saved. Only in the instance of Jesus, it was a spiritual saving, not physical.

      February 16, 2013 at 6:41 am |
    • End Religion

      But none of those people existed. What is spiritually inspirational about fraud?

      February 16, 2013 at 6:54 am |
    • John

      They all existed and did what the accounts say. God exists too and he's the reason those miracles happened all through the Torah, and the New Testament.

      February 16, 2013 at 7:09 am |
    • End Religion

      I'm curious why you never present your empirical evidence for the existence of your fevered hallucinations? It has to be because you realize none of it exists. Could that be it?

      February 16, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • John

      ER, if you rejected and hated a friend, told everyone how much you hated him, lied about him, and that friend was the ultimate, no one else like him, ever, in all history... you expect him to prove himself to you each day... for what? What you have is the Hi-C imaging from NASA, God mentioning cloth and hair on the sun, and him knowing the day... and you not.

      February 16, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Hi-C imaging from NASA, God mentioning cloth and hair on the sun"
      Why do you continually mention these things but never explain what you're talking about or providing your empirical evidence for how these things prove existence of your impotent god?

      February 16, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      That "cloth and hair on the sun" could only belong to Helios, which means Zeus and the rest of the pantheon are real as well.

      February 16, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • John

      ER, the sun became black like sackcloth of hair. God knew it 2000 years ago, to the day.

      God is the creator of everything. Your "nothing" and "evolution" gods never made anything.

      February 16, 2013 at 9:02 pm |
    • John

      It's black because the Hi-C image is just one wavelength, 2 times higher than we can see... it's black to our eyesight

      February 16, 2013 at 10:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, you're beyond ridiculous. You must have to constantly close your eyes and lie to yourself.

      February 16, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
    • John

      Tom, I can assure you, I didn't write and copy this phrase over the last 2000 years:

      "...and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair..."

      For that you will need to talk with scribes copying the scriptures and the guys setting up the first printing presses, etc... and just remember, what the Hi-C imaging is viewing... is black to our eyesight, 2 times higher in the visual spectrum, or 1/2 the wavelength lower than we can see... it's black up there to us... but not to the Hi-C imager.

      February 16, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You dip wad, there's not a shred of proof that anything you've written ever occurred at all. None. You're no better than the nut-jobs that think Nostradamus predicted every event that's happened in our lifetimes.

      You can keep lying to yourself, but you're about as convincing as a used car salesman to anybody with a brain.

      February 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
    • End Religion

      John, have you had your eyes checked? The sun is not black. It's nice CNN offers you an outlet for your lunacy.

      February 17, 2013 at 1:24 am |
    • John

      Tom and ER, this is why you'll never catch on, it's the same as Moses and Pharaoh, things happening that only God can do, and you'll completely miss it, because you don't want God to be there. Things right out in the open... you'll miss it... you won't see it. To you it's all nonsense. But when you're told something will happen, and it happens later, that's when you realize, God knew all of it, everything. He knows how I'll finish this, what I'll type. He knows your birth to death, all of us, over all history... like open books. If you look at the Hi-C images, it's like hair on the sun, like a garment... the detail they hadn't seen until this year... the millions of degrees temperature within the filaments... all new... and what it means... hidden to you as you ridicule God for having done it.

      February 17, 2013 at 2:34 am |
    • End Religion

      Weeks worth of John gibberish and not one photo, not that a photo proves anything. It'd be a nice place to start. Care to share your elusive "Hi-C Hair" photos?

      February 17, 2013 at 2:42 am |
    • John

      ER, don't get concerned about it, God won't let you understand anyway, you're "safe", you won't be convinced he's there. Anyway,
      the photos and video are easy to find, here's the main intro graphic NASA put out:

      http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/gallery/hic-cover1.html

      The "hair" actually does look dark, even in the imager's view... huh... anyway, it's the highest resolution they've seen yet, and I have no doubt they'll be trying to beat that in the future. But the millions of degrees in the filaments, that is new and a game changer, it's where science has to catch up... to God.

      February 17, 2013 at 4:05 am |
    • End Religion

      Great! And now there are bible phrases you seem to associate with hair on the sun? Is it just Revelation 6:12 you feel is associated here? Or some other?

      February 17, 2013 at 4:27 am |
    • John

      ER, I know how this goes, you reply some, then call it nonsense. I imagine that's what it was like with Pharaoh... find out God is right... then it's nonsense again after some heart hardening. Ask yourself ER, why does the text say all the kings, great, and rich men start hiding in the caves and rocks of the mountains... why would they do that? When science wakes up and realizes there are millions of degree filaments they hadn't seen before, and fusion occurs at 10-14 million degrees, and applied voltages can lower the required temperature significantly.... why would men start hiding in dens, etc... ??? Ask yourself this... and ask yourself how the apostle knew it 2000 years ago, while saying God showed it to him. Ask yourself, then get ready for the heart hardening. Do you have any distant relatives from Egypt?

      February 17, 2013 at 4:57 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I swear, you are starting to sound like LL, you wackaloon.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:23 am |
    • clarity

      That's human nature, John. There is always has been someone who can sell and package fear through a good story.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • John

      Tom, 12 apostles walking around with Jesus, knew, as in knowing, knew God exists. They didn't get anything out of walking around with Jesus for 3.5 years. And in one instance, one of the apostles, Judas, turned in Jesus for money... that's proof they got nothing out of it, and the one that turned him in, hanged himself afterwards. They got nothing out of it, and KNEW God is there. Same here, I get nothing out of it, and I know he's there. You have to wonder why anyone cares... and it's what you wanted... I wanted the truth, and I got it.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Ummmm

      John, there were witnesses of Zues and many greek gods, it still didn't mean they were actually real gods.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Says whom? You don't know that anything of the sort actually happened.

      Really, ya dink, if god created YOU in HIS image, HE must be an idiot.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "knew, as in knowing."

      How very...stupid.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • clarity

      Circular reference is not your friend, John. There is considerable speculation over the existence of Jesus, and you're trying to prove God by him. Well, as I said you have your belief, but you need to think about what would make good evidence for your God.

      Did you know, John, that several early Christian apologists were fending off charges that the gospel stories look so oddly like earlier pagan writings that the best excuse they could come up with was that it was diabolical mimicry – charging that the Devil wrote the earlier pagan stories in advance of the gospels to confuse everyone. Plagiarism by anticipation they called it. wink wink.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • Damocles

      I know, I mean I just know it, man. I know that I know by knowing that I know. How can you not know, you know? You can't tell me I don't know because I know that you know that I know that you know that I know.

      I am now officially dizzy.

      February 17, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      John,

      Your "Revelation" says: "and the sun became black as [LIKE] sackcloth made of goat hair, and the whole moon became as [LIKE] blood;"

      I'll bet that now you will be "as mad as a wet hen" and "as sad as a biscuit with no butter" to learn that you are "as crazy as a loon" and "as dumb as a post".

      February 17, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      p.s. John, Google images of lunar and solar eclipses, which have occurred since time immemorial, even in those supersti'tion-riddled Middle Eastern Hebrew times.

      February 17, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • John

      AFK, the blood red moon is actually pretty interesting. It could be red two ways:

      - as a marker in time
      - or as the moon being similar to an object that causes blood shed... like an impacting asteroid... the moon being similar to that.

      Both look fine.

      February 21, 2013 at 4:27 am |
  12. Sam Yaza

    good for you sister,.. that how we fight this patriarchal culture

    yeah V-day

    also shes almost as cute as Sarah

    February 15, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
  13. Uncouth Swain

    Wow..there are some real closed minded bigots on here.

    Ok, traditional Judaism is exclusive, even within it's own self. The Silverman's know this. If they think that is wrong and want to act out against it...good for them. But they KNOW it's exclusive, so I'm not going to shed any tears when they break the rules.
    The Kotel is broken down with a women's section and a men's section. Personally when I was there...this did not bother me much. The act of worship was not denied to anyone...just who you can do it beside.

    As for the snarky comment from one commentor about how minorities are treated in Israel...I suggest they research a little...expand their minds some. Try studying about the Druze. Check out who takes care of many of the old Mosques within Israel..psst, it's the govt.

    February 14, 2013 at 8:40 pm |
    • Here Now

      That's as pompous a post as I've seen so far this week.

      February 16, 2013 at 1:54 am |
    • Saraswati

      She wasn't arrested for praying in the wrong section on the wall, but praying at the wall with the shawl. Your comment prioritizes the validity of one form of Judaism over another based solely on which came first. Her version recommends this be done, the more orthodox version the opposite. By your logic all the laws of Judaism would take precedence over Christianity because they came first.

      February 16, 2013 at 7:18 am |
  14. End Religion

    They're fighting for a woman's right to have equal delusions.

    February 14, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • Zombie Squirrels Shall Feast upon your Nuts!

      . . . and wear towels by walls. Very important rights at stake here.

      February 14, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • John

      Women praying to God, is a wonderful thing. Their children can then know God better through their mother as well.

      February 16, 2013 at 1:09 am |
    • End Religion

      John, just because you "got to know God better through your mother" doesn't mean we're all as into incest as you. You're just gross, and so typically Christian to bone your mom.

      February 16, 2013 at 2:24 am |
  15. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Let's not be too hasty. Israel could become a laboratory for exploring criminalization of religious behaviour.

    February 14, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • John

      You can not stop the one that can destroy and create a universe, at will.

      February 16, 2013 at 1:12 am |
    • End Religion

      Any half decent screen writer can "destroy and create a universe, at will." Don't you have any higher imaginary standards?

      February 16, 2013 at 2:22 am |
    • fintastic

      John is talking about George Lucas.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
  16. Bleah

    Gotta love religion and the laws it makes:

    "Do not spit on the wall, do not pee on the wall, no slaughtering of animals at the wall, and among those one cannot perform a religious act contrary to local customs at the wall, which pretty much only applies to women."

    The problem of slaughtering animals at the wall was so bad they had to make a law?

    February 14, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
  17. ME II

    Ridiculous laws deserve ridicule!

    February 14, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • John

      All the false gods should be cleared out of Israel. Only the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, exists or deserves any mention there.

      February 16, 2013 at 1:19 am |
    • fintastic

      @John......... you do know that there are many who claim YOUR god is the false god, right?

      February 18, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
  18. George Patton

    "shawls known as tallitot that Israeli law says only Jewish men can wear there", and you expect Israelis to be fair with other minorities !!!! Ya right.

    February 14, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • Akira

      Makes me glad that we don't codify religious beliefs into law here in the US.

      February 14, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      "Makes me glad that we don't codify religious beliefs into law here in the US."

      I don't think the religious morons will even notice your sarcasm and will just agree, "Yeah, we are nothing like them!"

      February 14, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Akira

      MD: I suspect you're right.

      February 14, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    February 14, 2013 at 7:50 am |
    • nope

      nope

      February 14, 2013 at 7:53 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      February 14, 2013 at 8:01 am |
    • yup

      YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      February 14, 2013 at 8:01 am |
    • Science

      Education is better for children

      Earth From Space No God(s) required

      Detailed satellite images reveal the web of connections that sustain life on Earth. Aired February 13, 2013 on PBS

      Program Description

      "Earth From Space" is a groundbreaking two-hour special that reveals a spectacular new space-based vision of our planet. Produced in extensive consultation with NASA scientists, NOVA takes data from earth-observing satellites and transforms it into dazzling visual sequences, each one exposing the intricate and surprising web of forces that sustains life on earth. Viewers witness how dust blown from the Sahara fertilizes the Amazon; how a vast submarine "waterfall" off Antarctica helps drive ocean currents around the world; and how the sun's heating up of the southern Atlantic gives birth to a colossally powerful hurricane. From the microscopic world of water molecules vaporizing over the ocean to the magnetic field that is bigger than Earth itself, the show reveals the astonishing beauty and complexity of our dynamic planet.

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/earth-from-space.html

      February 14, 2013 at 8:24 am |
    • Peace

      Prayer is a vital and essential element to life.
      Thanks for the reminder.
      God bless!

      February 14, 2013 at 8:43 am |
    • Jack

      I'd sure like to detain Silverman and wail on her wall.

      February 14, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • sam stone

      Cannabis is a vital and essential element to life

      February 14, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • ME II

      "Prayer changes things"

      Apparently not for women

      February 14, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • fintastic

      baby jebus says :.. "what's up with that?":

      February 19, 2013 at 10:28 am |
  20. End Religion

    Running low on Jesus magic.

    February 14, 2013 at 7:29 am |
    • Big Shiz

      But your all full of sh it.

      February 14, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • derp

      Those women should just pray to be allowed to do what they did. We all know prayer works.

      February 14, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.