By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN) - NFL quarterback Tim Tebow has canceled an appearance at a controversial Dallas-area church. The outspoken Christian quarterback was scheduled to speak at First Baptist Church on April 28.
The church is led by Robert Jeffress, who has been widely criticized for views against homosexuality, Islam and Mormonism. Tebow, announcing his decision Thursday on Twitter, said that he was canceling his appearance “due to new information that has been brought to my attention.”
Tebow’s statement appeared over a series of four tweets on the social media site.
“I will continue to use the platform God has blessed me with to bring Faith, Hope and Love to all those needing a brighter day. Thank you for all of your love and support. God Bless!” he wrote to his Twitter followers.
Tebow was scheduled to speak at the 11,000-member Dallas church as part of a monthlong celebration of the megachurch’s completion of a new building campaign, a $130 million dollar project that encompasses five blocks of the downtown.
“Tim called me last night and explained to me that because of some things going on in his personal life and his career he needed to steer clear of controversy right now, but that at some other date he would like to come and speak at our church,” Jeffress told CNN by phone from Dallas. “Tim has to do what Tim thinks is best for him right now.”
The First Baptist Church of Dallas is a member of the Southern Baptist Convention. Jeffress, who has been in its pulpit since 2007, is no stranger to controversy.
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After introducing Texas Gov. Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit in Washington in October 2011, Jeffress told reporters he believed Mormonism was a cult, expressing a personal position and one held by his denomination. The move was seen as a particular slight to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a lifelong Mormon.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, while acknowledging sharp theological differences with the Southern Baptist Convention, bristles at the term cult and says it is inaccurate.
Jeffress has also drawn fire for his comments about homosexuality, Judiasm and Catholicism.
“This in no way is going to diminish what our church is teaching about salvation being available to all through faith in Jesus Christ,” Jeffress said.
Jeffress pointed out that Tebow is a member of the First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, a fellow SBC church.
“They certainly believe what we do, that salvation is through Christ alone, and about homosexuality. Tim confirmed that to me last night, that they believe exactly what we do about homosexuality.”
Tebow and Jeffress differ dramatically in how they present their faith. Tebow in talking about his faith has used much softer language, while Jeffress has no trouble going after less popular and culturally sensitive issues in Christianity.
CNN Belief Blog: Quarterback moves to trademark 'Tebowing'
“I believe that homosexuality is a sin just like adultery is a sin, just like I believe premarital sex is a sin, because it’s a deviation from God’s standard,” Jeffress said.
“God’s plan for sex is that is should be between a man and a woman in a marriage relationship and any deviation from that is wrong.”
While he believes any sex outside a heterosexual marriage is wrong, he adds, “I never single out homosexuality as the only sin or the unpardonable sin. I think homosexuality, just like adultery, can be forgiven if we ask God for forgiveness.”
Jeffress said he thinks there is a genetic disposition toward homosexuality, a stance on sexual orientation taken by many theologically conservative Christians and one scorned as scientifically flawed by the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.
Jeffress said he is sure there are gay members in his church. “We don’t ask all the gay members to stand up, but I’m sure that there are people who are gay in our church simply because of the letters I have received,” he said. “We have people who’ve committed adultery and who lie and who steal, but that doesn’t mean they’re not welcome to come to our church.”
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
As for comments about Mormons, Jews and Catholics, he is quick to point out that he believes “no one goes to hell in a group.”
“I’m not the one who decides who goes to heaven and hell. God does that. God has already given us the criteria for what it takes to go to heaven when you die. Jesus said in John 14:6, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the father except through me.’ When I quote that verse I like to remind people that Jesus who said that was not a Southern Baptist evangelist but a Jewish rabbi. Yet as a Jewish rabbi he said there is one way to heaven, and that is through faith in me.”
The controversy surrounding Tebow’s appearance won’t dampen the church’s plans, Jeffress said. He said Tebow, while escaping the spotlight now over his beliefs, will continue to face controversy.
“I think Tim is going to discover that no matter how hard you try to hide from controversy, if you stand for the simple truths of the Bible, like faith in Christ, necessary for salvation, and sex (being acceptable only) between a man and a woman in marriage, you can't avoid controversy. That’s something Tim needs to discover on his own. We in no way want to impugn him. He’s a great man of God who sincerely loves the Lord.”
Science told me that rats, chimps, worms, apes, oceans, rivers, dirt and other "gods" created me, and that "nothing" created all the matter and engery in the universe all at once and never again, ever, anywhere, for no reason at all and can't ever do it again... without any evidence to back it up. Science then said I can't mention the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when his creation is discussed. Then a head of science, finds hair on the sun... burning hail causing blood shed.. and wonders how it's so that an apostle knew 2000 years ago, stuff happening today. It is obvious to me who is right: God.
not even a good strawman argument, johnnie boy
How can I explain to my child why religious people are so stupid? I'd like to be nice about it, but it is difficult.
Come on John time for real science class where creation/ID lost DEPUNKED at the Dover trial 2005 fact.
"hair on the sun... burning hail causing blood shed.. and wonders how it's so that an apostle knew 2000 years ago"
- No apostle said a dang thing about "hair on the sun" (as you have been repeatedly informed).
- Blazing meteorites crashed down on Earth back in Middle Eastern Hebrew days too, just like now (as you have also been repeatedly informed).
Get over this "G-o-l-l-y", "Sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise!", Gomer.
Actually, we should encourage John to post more often. His comments are a great testimonial for atheism.
AFK, God showed Moses burning hail too, thousands of years ago.
"AFK, God showed Moses burning hail too, thousands of years ago."
post the scripture.
Ex 9:24 So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail...
Are you just dishonest, or are you that ignorant?
John, check that verse again. I think it's...
Ex 9:24 So there was hair, and fire locked in with the hair...
What the fuck is "hair on the sun"? You think someone found hair on the sun?
This isn't more of that triangle of days locking in freshness thing again, is it?
The gods that were thought to have risen from the dead were Dionysus, Asclepius, Apollonius of Tyana, Heracles, Tammuz from Babylonia, Adonis of Phoenicia and Attis of Phrygia!
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he is the best there is, all powerful, patience beyond time itself, loving and forgiving to those that love him, sending his son to die for others.
Science, your "nothing" gods never did anything, daydreaming about it and guessing, never made it so.
God of Abraham is the finest kind. Free for a limited time only.
Says the moron.
Unfortunate cross-post. Obviously, I meant Johnny.
all powerful and all imaginary, johnnie
science does not have gods, johnnie
as far as your god sending jeebus to die for others, he could have forgiven others with having his son whacked.....so he is pr1ck, too.
back on your knees, slaveboy
Sam, at least attempt to be honest. Science does have it's own gods. For example, they claim that if the river chemistry changes, then the species within it change, in effect science has a "river" god forming the species within it, etc... same for all the other gods of science.
I may have to call Poe on John. It's just so hard to think that someone is a stupid as he is.
No, John, science does not have gods. You are being deceptive and slippery as usual, but we have your number now and are prepared for your cowardly dirty tricks.
In science, everything is open to question, even and especially the basic premises.That is in stark contrast to religion such as yours.
No hawaiiguy, he was here a few days back rambling incoherently about a triangle of days that lock in truth. He's for real. Read his posts and you will realize that no sane person could ever imagine that, not even David Lynch.
So, you think that science has a "river" god.....
You truly are a stupid cvnt
Kids are pretty savvy. Perhaps the biggest risk a teacher runs by teaching creationism is a complete loss of credibility.
Teachers shouldn't teach ANYTHING til they've put their time in on a Reality show, for say 5 years.
I guess it depends on the grade level of the kids and the sort of community from which they come-if mommy and daddy believe that the earth was created 6000 years ago, the kids are likely to swallow the same swill.
Yeah, lol. Whatever.
Have you ever noticed that lol?? is like that whiny, annoying little kid that no one likes, but he keeps hanging around and making stupid comments, even when nobody is paying any attention?
He's the one who farts in class all the time and pretends he didn't.
The purple dino is taught at an early age so ..........
It is getting pretty gray for Mom and Dad now if they believe that the earth is 6000 years old.
Oh no Mom and Dad it does not work that way.....
It warms my heart to hear of a kid leaving confirmation class after telling the instructor it's all a steaming pile of shit.
Their mug shots after gettin' caught teaching s*e*x* should open doors in holywood.
Hail on fire with blood shed... and hair on the sun... what's next?
Tell us more about your fear of locking in on hot hairy triangles.
Prayer changes things ,
Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!~`
Actually prayer fails in every double blind study. Would you pray ad then let a blind guy do surgery on you? You don't have strong enough faith dude!
Tebow pulls out... SKEET SKEET SKEET!
Tebow's popularity and profitability just proves that great old adage,
"Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, the cowardly, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them."
That pretty much nails this case, on both the believing and the profiteering sides.
The bible celebrates this difference, and separates people into the sheep and the shepherds, the fish and the fishermen. It's amazing that so few Christians realize which group gets fleeced and eaten.
The gubint god makes religion look like pikers.
I m tryin ta make sence, but I have a short attention sp . . . SQUIRREL!!!
"Old adage?" Not likely.
Is Ron Henzel stupid? Certainly.
tim is a great athlete and a great guy. reggie white was too. wish reggie was still here. hope his widow is well. keep up the great stuff you've been doing, tim. takes a man to acknowledge his love for god under a microscope in a world full of confused, lost, lonely, empty souls. no doubt you generate interest in the one risen from the grave.
murdock, you're referring to Osiris?
All creationists should use the brain evolution gave them aye !
Has Evolution Given Humans Unique Brain Structures?
Feb. 22, 2013 — Humans have at least two functional networks in their cerebral cortex not found in rhesus monkeys. This means that new brain networks were likely added in the course of evolution from primate ancestor to human.
What does this have to do with Tebow?
Just like topher below .
My mom told me that God gave me a brain. She's not the only one that told me that, God told me as well, in the bible.
Christianity is just another blood cult, and Tebow knows how to profit from it, like so many other con artists such as TV evangelists do. He needs to be in the spotlight to do that, and in this case, a bit of controversy gets him that again. Same old same old. Religious sheeple are particularly gullible and thus easy targets for con men.
you be talkin' bout ye ol' copy cats.
He is licensing "Tebowing" everyytime you pray he gets royalties
It is a sad state of affairs when if you declare you are a believer and even violate Jesus' commandment to not pray in public you can be the worst mfer on earth and people think you are cool. Tell someone you are an unbeliever and you could get killed no mattter what a moral person you are. Tebow is a football player not a spiritual giant. We do treat religions like NFL teams though
And they came out ,stumbling above they are ..
Funny thing is Tim Tebow is such an obvious closet faqqot.
Seriously, watch the post game interview from the Steelers/Broncos playoff tilt. I bet Tebow, Kirk Cameron and Joel Osteen participate in circle jerks while they read old fairy tales that they take literally.
And what if they are gay? You realize that it's this stupid bigotry that drives people like them to become the overzealous tools that they are. What possible good does it do to make gayness an insult against them? It just makes you as big a tool as they are.
Yup, it's like calling the KKK a bunch of stupid nig_ers. You boys really are tools.
Hopey changey and what you see might not be what you get......"2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Good morning, everyone! What shall we talk about today?
How about "Why does Topher keep on asking for more abuse despite clearly being shown to be a fool every time he enters into a discussion?"
Good Morning Topher,
I'm glad it's friday, though I think my writing duties this weekend will include killing off a character I adore, so there may be much procrastination and cleaning rather than writing.
Hope your weekend is pleasant.
We're talking about how the bible is NOT a source of morality or laws but should be used as a warning of what NOT to do.
@Honey, I'd prefer to just use the bible as an historical reference and not a guide for or against anything.
Best use for the bible is as emergency toilet paper.
@Honey, In a pinch, sure...it usually has those nice thin, soft sheets. But we should definitely keep enough around for history class.
I know. One more night of work. Woo-hoo!
You could kill off a character, but bring them back later.
How about discussing why anyone would worship some a manipulative, self-glorifying petty pr1ck if not out of abject fear of hell?
Not all Christians believe in hell, so there has to be more to it than that for a lot of people.
Right, just like the people who made up the bible did.
I reject God is any of those things. But I'll worship Him because of what He did for me. I deserve Hell. I'm a filthy, disgusting, wretched sinner. But He loved me so much He left His throne in Heaven, came to Earth and was tortured and died in my place. Then He defeated death by rising on the third day and proving He was who He claimed to be. No one could possibly do something better for me. That's love. "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."
How can an adult be so delusional?
How can someone be so foolish to reject such an offer?
Why do you ask questions for which you have no interest in the answer? Why do you ask what to talk about, and not address the things that are brought up?
All you want to do is preach, so why are you even trying to pretend you care about discussing anything?
topher: reject it all you want. you said that god created adam and eve knowing "sin" would come into this world, and he would either be glorified by punishing the sinners or glorified by forgiving the sinners......how is that NOT a manipulative petty pr1ck?
" ... how is that NOT a manipulative petty ...?"
He's not manipulative because you have free will to sin or not; to receive His offer or not.
Petty means something small, or little worth or unimportant. How is God not the exact opposite of all those things. So He's clearly not that, either.
I deserve Hell. I'm a filthy, disgusting, wretched sinner
Wow! A fine example of the mental torture that organized religion creates. I'm sorry you feel this way about yourself, really. You shouldn't feel that way. I'm sure you have many fine qualities, you should maybe focus on those things, and enjoy your life while you're here? Instead of subjecting yourself to the guilt and misery that organized religion wants you to feel?
So ... we're NOT monkeys? Shocking.
topher: if we are born sinners, how do we have a choice to sin? do we have a choice to be born? as far as petty goes, your god consideres lust sinful, but wants people to propagate the planet..how so without lust?
you are like a battered wife, explaining to her neighbors she had those black eyes coming because she burned the eggs
No Topher. Humans, apes, monkeys, lemurs, etc. are all quite modern in their way. All have diverged from their common ancestors in various ways. Humans are not special in this regard.
no one is claiming we are monkeys, topher....try to get a clue. hint: it might involve getting off your knees and not being a snivelling slave
Primates, Topher. Don't act like a jerk.
That was a snide comment, Topher.
"topher: if we are born sinners, how do we have a choice to sin?"
Everything you do is the result of a choice. God's standard is perfection. How have you done so far?
"do we have a choice to be born?"
"as far as petty goes, your god consideres lust sinful, but wants people to propagate the planet..how so without lust?"
With your wife. You are under a covenant with her and thus can't commit this sin with her.
"Don't act like a jerk."
You're right. I'm sorry.
With your wife.
People with no physical attraction to one another generally should not enter into a covenant of marriage.
"This means that new brain networks were likely added in the course of evolution from primate ancestor to human."
Dishonest answer, Topher. Ever wonder why people call you that? This would be why: "So … we’re NOT monkeys? Shocking."
Hhre is a question for you. Why do Christians pray publicly why Jesus specifically instructed them not to in Matthew 6:5? They demand children pray in school, and they pray in church, and they have National prayer day, and they say their grace prayer, and Tim Tebow drops down in the middle of a crowded coliseum for a prayer. But Jesus clearly says that the people who do that, which basically includes all Christians, have received all the reward they are ever going to get.
Why do virtually all Christians violate "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full", especially when Jesus says they lose heaven over it?
Simple way to look at it topher is god did not give you the brain you have.
Here is a NO BRAINER for you Topher !!!
Red Brain, Blue Brain: Republicans and Democrats Process Risk Differently, Research Finds
Feb. 13, 2013 — A team of political scientists and neuroscientists has shown that liberals and conservatives use different parts of the brain when they make risky decisions, and these regions can be used to predict which political party a person prefers. The new study suggests that while genetics or parental influence may play a significant role, being a Republican or Democrat changes how the brain functions.
Good question. The point was not to be showy like the Pharisees. They stood out there with the purpose of looking like they are more spiritual than the next guy. They thought this somehow earned them rewards. But the problem was they weren't saved at all. They were being self-righteous.
And once again, Topher ignores me for a reason he has never explained.
Jesus was not talking about the Pharisees; he was using them as an example. He was instructing Christians how to behave, not Pharasees. Just a few lines lated, Jesus says prayer is to be done alone behind closed doors. That passage clearly show that even people who pray in church are showing off.
This is the Sermon On The Mount, not a minor comment. And Christians violate it, despite being clearly told that it's no reward for you. I bet you have violated it many times, and recently. The demand for prayer in school violates it.
So I ask again, why do Christians ignore the Jesus' direct instructions?
Tophu is a cherry picker, hawaii. He runs away from uncomfortable questions.
I bet you already guessed that.
God's standard is perfection, so anyone imperfect is deserving of hell?
Yet claim that god is not a petty pr1ck.
Self loathing is ugly, and you are a fine example of it.
You are much more effective as a warning about religion than as a witness for god.
Billy Bob: He is also a snivelling coward
"Jesus was not talking about the Pharisees; he was using them as an example."
"He was instructing Christians how to behave, not Pharasees. Just a few lines lated, Jesus says prayer is to be done alone behind closed doors. That pas.sage clearly show that even people who pray in church are showing off. "
No. We're at church to worship Him, so your as.sertion praying in church is showing off makes no sense. The point Jesus was making had to do with the Pharisees' "look at me!" att.itude. They were glorifying themselves instead of God.
"I bet you have violated it many times, and recently."
Well, I reject I am violating what Jesus is saying, but I have prayed out loud in church. It's one of my duties.
"The demand for prayer in school violates it."
I reject this as well, though I am not a proponent of teaching religion and things of that nature in public schools.
"So I ask again, why do Christians ignore the Jesus' direct instructions?"
Well, we're hypocrites. We still sin.
"God's standard is perfection, so anyone imperfect is deserving of hell?"
Yes. If I lie to a child, nothing will happen to me. If I lie to my wife, I'll be sleeping on the couch. If I lie to my boss, I'll be fired. If I lie to the president, I'll be thrown into prison or even killed for it. So how much more so should a punishment be when the crime is committed against a holy, perfect and just God?
"Yet claim that god is not a petty --"
"You are much more effective as a warning about religion than as a witness for god."
OK. Then why come on a "Belief Blog"? Perhaps your conscience is screaming at you that it's true.
You reject it? You reject Jesus' direct instructions? Really? Well, he is clear about it: you have received all the reward you are ever going to get.
And if it is okay for you to violate rules, why do Christians flip out about gays violating rules? If they are going to hell, then so are you. Or is there some special double standard of moral relativism that applies to people who claim Christianity but violate the rules?
I'm rather shocked that you can look directly at Jesus' clear and direct instructions and simply say "I reject that," especially when Jesus says you have already received all the reward you are ever going to get.
Gotta run, but I'll look at your response later.
"So how much more so should a punishment be when the crime is committed against a holy, perfect and just God?"
There is no proof that this statement is true.
god can't be perfect because he made humans in his image and humans aren't perfect. this leaves me with two options. 1. god is not perfect or 2. we are not made in god's image. Either way the bible is wrong about something.
"You reject it? You reject Jesus' direct instructions? Really? Well, he is clear about it: you have received all the reward you are ever going to get."
Jesus Himself prayed in public in front of people.
"And if it is okay for you to violate rules, why do Christians flip out about gays violating rules? If they are going to hell, then so are you. Or is there some special double standard of moral relativism that applies to people who claim Christianity but violate the rules?"
It's NOT Ok that I violate rules. That's what sinning is; breaking the rules. But there's a big difference in a Christian and someone engaging in an active lifestyle of sin ... Salvation. Christians have repented (meaning they have turned from sin; they don't set out to do it) and have put their trust in Christ. This is the only way to be saved. So while a lie might slip out of my mouth or I might let a moment of lust slip into my mind, I'm already forgiven. Without Christ, they are not.
"Gotta run, but I'll look at your response later."
Have a good one, dude.
'If I lie to the president, I'll be thrown into prison or even killed for it."
Not necessarily. Are you lying about this, or are you merely an imbecile? I could see either being the case
Option 3. God DID create us perfect, but rebelled and thus sin and a curse entered the world.
Topher: Your god is not just. Your god is a pr1ck. That is why you fear him
I come on the Belief Blog to be entertained by the likes of you. You reinforce all the impressions I have about religion and religious people
You are a bigot and a coward.
I know. I just enjoy pointing out the dishonesty of Topher, and him continuing to ignoreme demonstrates my point everytime.
LOL so apparently perfect things can act imperfectly. By that logic, your god, being perfect, can act imperfectly as well.
If god had made humans perfect then no human would have ever sinned because they would be perfect.
"3. God DID create us perfect, but rebelled and thus sin and a curse entered the world."
but, according to you, god knew this was going to happen. therefore, it is not rebelling, but going along with god's plan...you fail again, topher
"If I lie to my wife, I'll be sleeping on the couch."
Then your wife is not a Christians and doesn't understand forgiveness.
"If I lie to my boss, I'll be fired."
Depends on the lie, I've lied to my boss because of confidential issues that they are not prevue too. So no you won't get fired.
"If I lie to the president, I'll be thrown into prison or even killed for it."
No, you wouldn't that's just stupid. Look at how many of our presidents lied to the entire country and only one of them got impeached.
“3. God DID create us perfect, but rebelled and thus sin and a curse entered the world.”
God rebelled? This is what the sentence is saying.
And, right on time, Topher has mysteriously vanished. He will either:
1) Post very soon to prove he didn't run away.
2) Wait until he nearly has to go to work, then post some inane non-answer and leave.
"God rebelled? This is what the sentence is saying."
Whoops! "MAN rebelled." Sorry about that. I wish these boards had a correction feature.
The only reason eating from the tree was considered a sin was because God said so, arbitrarily. He didn't have to put the tree there either, just an arbitrary decision. How can you be considered omnibenevolent if you make the rules and create beings that not only can, but with 100% certainty WILL break at least one rule.
the obvious answer is that god is a vindictive pr1ck. servile grovelling folks like topher will argue this, but such is the nature of a battered spouse....."i had it coming"....."i am a wretched sinner" ......."blah, blah, fvcking blah"
@Topher, an edit button would be VERY useful.
@lunchbreaker, I've never seen a satifasfactory answer as to why God created the Tree of Knowledge...since He knows everything, why have the tree? I have asked this, and to my own knowledge, have never seen it answered.
Oh my gosh! Really? I point out that you violate Jesus' clear and direct instructions, and you go sideways and say Jesus did it? Well Jesus is going to torture most of the human race, so you get to? Nonsense.
Given a choice between Jesus and the rituals of your church, you reject Jesus and go for your church.
As to you "I get to sin and still be saved" thing, again, that passage says you forfeited salvation. You have already received here all of your reward. Which is nothing.
What kind of god lets you ignore the rules whenever you like, then gives you everything you want when you decide to obey? You get to do that again and again your whole life? Really?
I'm beginning to think the others are right about your integrity. You have very convenient versions of the rules that are at odds to what is actually written, and you can look right at those passages and deny them.
Were there really a Jesus, he must be disgusted at all the people who claim to be his followers who are such experts at coming up with reasons that they don't really have to follow what he said.
Best for you if there is no Jesus, rejeccting his orders like that.
Who and what are you Topher? You seem to be popular here and a tad notorious for your intellectual laziness.
Only for the new members of this blog:–>>>>>
"Tebow was scheduled to speak at the 11,000-member Dallas church as part of a monthlong celebration of the megachurch’s completion of a new building campaign, a $130 million dollar project that encompasses five blocks of the downtown."
Talk about a waste of money!!!
Now let us put that money to good use:
In order to pay down OUR $16 trillion debt, we need to redirect money used to support/control religions especially the christian and islamic cons and put it towards paying off our debt.
Redirecting our funds and saving a lot of "souls" in the process:
Saving 1.5 billion lost Muslims:
There never were and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam and therefore no more koranic-driven acts of horror and terror LIKE 9/11.
– One trillion dollars over the next several years as the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan will end.
– Eighteen billion dollars/yr to Pakistan will stop.
– Four billion dollars/yr to Egypt will end.
Saving 2 billion lost Christians including the Mormons:
There were never any bodily resurrections and there will never be any bodily resurrections i.e. No Easter, no Christianity!!!
– The Mormon t-ithe empire will now become taxable as will all Christian "religions" and evangelical non-profits since there is no longer any claim to being a tax-exempt religion. (~$100 billion was donated to various religious groups in 2011)
– the faith-based federal projects supported by both Bush and Obama will be eliminated saving $385 million/yr and another $2 billion/yr in grants.
– Saving 15.5 million Orthodox followers of Judaism:
Abraham and Moses never existed.
– Four billion dollars/yr to Israel saved.
– All Jewish sects and non-profits will no longer be tax exempt.
Now all we need to do is convince these 3.5+ billion global and local citizens that they have been conned all these centuries Time for a YouTube,Twitter and FaceBook campaign!!!!
(Added information: "In 2010, according to the Urban Inst-itute’s publication, The Nonprofit Sector in Brief, the total expenses of all reporting public charities – public charities required to file Form 990s with the IRS – totaled nearly $1.45 trillion. Total revenues were estimated at $1.51 trillion.)"
Still no answer to my question:
There is a place in the bible where it actually states that marriage is between ONE man and ONE woman. Where is it?
It's right next to the discussion of free will in the Gospel of St. Not-Appearing-In-This-Film. It's a very large gospel, full of the not-in-the-Bible things Christians think are Christian.
The next book after that is the Gospel of St. Don't-Really-Have-To-Follow-The-Rules-That's For-You-To-Tell-Other-People-To-Do
It's there in 1 Timothy 3:12
A priest must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
Only applies to priests though. You can marry as many women as you want according to the bible.
Matthew 19:4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 (electronic ed.) (Mt 19:4). Grand Rapids: Zondervan.
1 Timothy 3:12 A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well
The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 (electronic ed.) (1 Ti 3:12). Grand Rapids: Zondervan.
That has NO prohibition against having more than one wife. There are numerous cases in the bible that show that men not only can but must have more than one wife as well as concubines.
Your case fails.
I've had one wife, and let me tell you in no uncertain terms that polygamists are fucking idiots, because one was way more than enough!
And I can also tell you that Jesus is dead wrong divorce being a bad thing, because the 50% of marriages that go sour, well, it's insane to demand people suffer for the rest of their lives. Nothing good comes of it, especially not for the children.
That's way up at the top of the "really bad advice Jesus gave" list, by "sell your goods and give the money to the poor." Very stupid advice unless you want to be a homeless street person in your retirement.
The bible says that Eve was made from a rib of Adam, which would make Even a clone of Adam. This means that Eve was male, so in reality god made two dudes.
LOL – I've got to remember that one.
"Only applies to priests though. You can marry as many women as you want according to the bible."
And presumably as many men?
"The bible says that Eve was made from a rib of Adam,"
mmm... Eve – get in my belly!
Do what makes you feel good as long as you are not imposing on others rights. That is the way to go through life.
The bible should not be used as a source of morality or laws. It should be used as a warning of how NOT behave.
@Honey, I guess it depends what you consider a right, and whether you think "rights" are really the highest moral aim. If one thinks that having a partner is a "right" then allowing multiple wives (or husbands) in some cases reduces the number of available spouses for all but the wealthy. If you consider overall well-being the goal, we have lots of evidence that percent of single males in a society is a predictor of the crime rate. And if we allow both multiple wives and multiple husbands (or multiples in same se x marriages) we get into some very tricky legal territory where you have to determine who, exactly, is married to who as the whole world could theoretically be involved in one big marriage web. I’m not saying it isn’t doable, but there would be a lot of considerations before implementation.
Quote mining the Bible, now?
Isn't that section of Matthew a response to the question of divorce, not same-se.x marriage?
"3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”" (Matthew 19)
Me II, this is the bible we are talking about, therefore, that passage can be about anything you want it to be.
The Bible is rife with polygamy, even from some of God's most favoured people (like David).
"Then Lamech took for himself two wives : the name of one was Adah, and the name of the second was Zillah."
"If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:"
"If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights."
King David is called "a man after God's own heart" and he had multiple wives.
1 Samuel 25:43 states:
"David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel, and so both of them were his wives."
2 Samuel 5:13:
"And David took more concubines and wives from Jerusalem, after he had come from Hebron. Also more sons and daughters were born to David."
2 Samuel 12:8
"Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel : 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. ' I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more!"
"And he [Jacob] arose that night and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven sons, and crossed over the ford of Jabbok."
2 CHRONICLES 11:21
"Now Rehoboam loved Maachah the granddaughter of Absalom more than all his wives and his concubines; for he took eighteen wives and sixty concubines, and begot twenty-eight sons and sixty daughters."
But don't forget that the Apostle Paul said that God prefers people to stay celibate for their entire lives.
"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry." (1 Corinthians 7:8)
Marriage is for the weak-willed.
And moving now to the 21st century: (putting the OT into proper perspective)
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
And staying in the 21st century:
The Timothy epistle, as per many if not most contemporary NT scholars", was not written by Paul but by a pseudo Paul. Therefore said epistle has no divine guidance.
And does the following Matt 19: 3-8 "thu-mptation" pass contemporary, rigorous, historic scrutiny?? Not much of it !!!
“Matt 19:3-8 (see also Mark 10:1-12)
/19:3/ Some Pharisees came to him, and to test him they asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause?" /19:4/ He answered, "Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' /19:5/ and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? /19:6/ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." /19:7/ They said to him, "Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?" /19:8/ He said to them, "It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. "
For example see: http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb252.html and Professor Gerd Ludemann's review in his book "Jesus After 2000 Years, pp. 66-67. Only "let no one separate" has any historic validity.
Then there is this:
JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?
Yet, many of the kings and other notable figures in Jewish history had multiple wives and concubines. Clearly the idea of one wife per man wasn't a part of Jewish culture from the very start.
Tebow? Who cares? Xtians worship and praise of Tebow is sickening and smells of desperation.
It's no coincidence that Tebow's name starts with a cross.
He's liscensing praying on one knee. He could get rich from the royalties!
If you read just the first half of the ti tle of this article it makes you think that Tim Tebow is now catholic.
"Tim Tebow pulls out!"
No, John.....you stated your opinion and called it "the truth"
sorry, wrong location.....
Timmy standing behind center probably got all excited
It's the truth Sam, get your bible out, start reading it, believe God and ask for forgiveness of your sins through Jesus's sacrifice. You have no idea who you're up against, otherwise.
John = Troll Shaman
There is no need to waste time on Gullible's Travels. It just folklore, Johnny. And the gospel part? –very unfounded. They basically copied some older pagan stories. I suppose Paul believed it, but all he did was spread it. He didn't buy into it at first, but mostly likely he got sick and hallucinated some things which scared him into being a believer. But the plagiarism was glaring. Unknown authorship and stories that looked like older stories. Of course the early church splintered over differences on what the screenplay was really supposed to look like. And those early Christian apologists -several of them including Justin Martyr – they found themselves having to come up with an excuse for the plagiarization. All they could say was that the devil did it. They said he set up the whole thing in advance, disseminating the fake stories first, in advance of the real stories. Yeah, right. lol. Well – in the end you have to place a lot of faith on very little credible evidence of the gospels – and if you do, you may as well buy into the Joseph Smith & Related Families, Inc. story as well since there is about as much evidence of Joe's claims as there is for Paul's.
Catholics aren't allowed to pull out – it is a terrible sin.
Once upon a time, God commanded a man named Onan to impregnate his sister in law, but Onan kept pulling out at the critical moment and spilling his seed on the ground.
For this transgression, God smote Onan.
And that's why Catholics aren't allowed to pull out, or use birth control.
"The Bible business sells more than 6,000 different products for over $800 million a year—all sold as "the Bible." – Timothy Beal author of "The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book"
Beal goes on to be quoted, "there is no such thing as the Bible, and there never has been."
"Whoa," some will say, "stop the madness! Save the Bible! We’ve got to get back to the original, pure, unadulterated Bible." In the book, I say, "Okay, let’s try that." What we discover when we do that is even more surprising: not only is there no such thing as the Bible now; there never has been. There is no unadulterated original, no Adam from which all Bibles have descended. The further we go back in history, the more variety we discover. "That old-time religion" is an illusion.
American Standard Version, American King James Version, Amplified Bible, An American Translation, ArtScroll Tanakh (Old Testament), An American Translation, Berkeley Version, Bible in English, The Bible in Living English, Bishops' Bible, Catholic Public Domain Version, Children's King James Version, Christian Community Bible, English version, Clear Word Bible, Complete Jewish Bible, Contemporary English Version, Concordant Literal Version, A Conservative Version, Coverdale Bible, Darby Bible, Douay-Rheims Bible, Douay-Rheims Bible (Challoner Revision), EasyEnglish Bible, Easy-to-Read Version, English Jubilee 2000 Bible, English Standard Version, Ferrar Fenton Bible, Geneva Bible, God's Word, Good News Bible, Great Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, The Inclusive Bible, International Standard Version, Jerusalem Bible, Jewish Publication Society of America Version Tanakh (Old Testament), Judaica Press Tanakh (Old Testament), ia E. Smith Parker Translation, King James 2000 Version, King James Easy Reading Version, King James Version, King James II Version, Knox's Translation of the Vulgate, Lamsa Bible, A Literal Translation of the Bible, Leeser Bible, Tanakh (Old Testament), The Living Bible, The Living Torah and The Living Nach. Tanakh (Old Testament), Matthew's Bible, The Message, Modern King James Version, Modern Language Bible, Moffatt, New Translation, James Murdock's Translation of the Syriac Pes.hitta, New American Bible, New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, New English Bible, New English Translation (NET Bible), New International Reader's Version, New International Version Inclusive Language Edition, New International Version, New Jerusalem Bible, New Jewish Publication Society of America Version. Tanakh (Old Testament), New King James Version, New Life Version, New Living Translation, New Revised Standard Version, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, Quaker Bible, Recovery Version of the Bible, Revised Version, Revised Standard Version, Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition, Revised English Bible, Rotherham's Emphasized Bible, The Scriptures, Simplified English Bible, The Story Bible, Taverner's Bible, Thomson's Translation, Today's New International Version, Third Millennium Bible, Tyndale Bible, Updated King James Version, A Voice In The Wilderness Holy Scriptures, Webster's Revision, Westminster Bible, The Work of God's Children Illustrated Bible, Wycliffe's Bible (1380), Wycliffe's Bible (1388), Young's Literal Translation.
I'm sure ONE of them is the original, real, true, infallible Bible....
@john what if anything in your life do you apply this same level of infantile fear. You'll be alright buddy! Don't be skeered. There is no God, Hell, Jesus or Satan
Days are passing by people. Find God and figure it out, it's not a joke.
Not only is it a joke, but it is a bad one at that
I said the truth.
John: We will have to sedate you and lock you back in your padded room with your huggy jacket soon if you do not stop your ramblings.
Just like Noah's day... time ticking away... you laugh about it and don't realize what's coming up. What will you say when you see the rich, great, and kings hiding in moutains? Your joke is that your dinner can save you, or "nothing", or "evolution", or "science"... none of those can save you. You can't even get to Mars... you're stuck here... think about it.
I support your position John, having experienced eternal life I have to say that it is real to all your naysayers lol :)
Indeed, the ancient prophecies are being fulfilled and the End Times are nigh.
' The age of evil has come to the world . Everyone steals and hoards great wealth, and sensual sin rules the day. The end of the world is at hand – yet men are hard and cruel, and listen not to the doom that is coming . No one heeds the cries of his neighbour, or lifts a hand to save. '
Only the mercy of Odin can save you from Ragnarok.
DV, you're putting your trust in mythology, it won't save you. Keep this in mind when you see them hiding, because only the rich, great, and kings can afford to dig deep once they figure it out...
There is no where you can go to get away from God. The reason the rich, great and kings dig deep, is because they will think that can provide protection from what's coming up. Or if you think you can fly a rocket to some other planet, what good is it? You haven't escaped anything. If you go to another star, you're in the same dilema as before... you can't go anywhere to get away from God. He knew when he showed the apostle the sun becoming as black sackcloth of hair, and the moon becoming as blood... or blood shed... either reading matches.
When God told Moses there'd be hail with fire... who else would tell you that today?
All the same mythology, John.
John The Liar, where is your evidence for any of your claims? So far, you have claimed much and proven nothing. Are you the wacko that strolls the streets of Las Vegas preaching the jesus myth at the top of his lungs? He didn't have any proof, other than to wave The Babble, either, and he got terribly upset when challenged. The casino astrologers make more sense than you or him.
John, You're putting your trust in mythology, it won't save you even if there were anything to be saved from.
Clar, there was hail with fire just this week... how did you miss it?
"When God told Moses there'd be hail with fire... who else would tell you that today?"
You must not keep up with the news much. It's actually happening today in America because of the storms we are having, it's called snow thunder lightening, and it has nothing to do with your god. LMAO!
John The Liar, please provide a clear reference for hail with fire last week. No answer equals yet another lie.
A serious "Thanks!" to . for the link but as I am a pilot and quite aware of winter thunderstorms, I was hoping for something more supernatural from John The Liar, as I'm sure he, as the ignorant ancients did, imparted some godly significance to a now known and well understood physical phenomena.
I see John is another idiot who thinks you can actually build a viable wooden boat 440' long, which never was successfully done by much more advanced boatbuilders (wood is way too flexible and unstable for the stresses of the ocean), which is way too small for all the animals needed, much less their provisions, and that 6 people could not keep the too many animals alive, and when they got to shore, the animals would all die off becuse with only two of every kind, the predators would wipe out the prey within a day or two, then starve, and of course, the tiny problem of Asian and Africans and all the variations coming out of three Middle Eastern couples,and getting to the right places.
The belief in Noah's Ark is a perfect litmus test for how gullible someone is.
Oh, is John another one who, like Topher, says that the ark didn't have to go very far. They dropped off my giant turtles at Gibraltar and those poor things drowned only a few miles into the Atlantic trying to get back to the Galapagos. I don't think so. No sir. I'm not buying it.
The meteor shower over Russia recently is a great example of Sodom and Gomorrah, but at least we are more educated now and they didn't start offering their vir.gin daughters to be ra.ped.. LOL!
Hail fire? As Don't Forget commented, are you talking about the absolutely natural meteor sightings and crash landings that have been happening on Earth (and elsewhere in the universe) since time immemorial?
Oooh, you'll love this one:
A waterfall that is 'on fire' every mid-to-late winter in Yosemite Park.
@john You should consider doing standup! You are hilarious! Oh my sides!
Chad's probably on the road with the william lane craig debate and book signing tour, hoping that old bill will finally say something new that he can use here.
Topher, Live4Him Chad Fred John Bob Bill Deacon Missing in action
Oh where out thou
Silence sinner! His time is near. you will receive your pass from the Lord in due time and you better be ready to receive it or your going under the terf! There's your sign.
That explains why, when I turn on religious broadcasts, all the good fancy dressed people are holding their hands up to the sky......"throw the ball to me, Jeebus, I'm open!"
@The Blind Leading The Blind
Possible that the "Rapture" happened, and we don't know about it?
Bucky, no, it isn't. They'll surface before long. There hasn't been any Morning Speed Read lately, that's all.
sam stone, that's very funny. Thanks for the laugh.
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