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Tim Tebow pulls out of speaking at Dallas church
February 21st, 2013
10:40 AM ET

Tim Tebow pulls out of speaking at Dallas church

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - NFL quarterback Tim Tebow has canceled an appearance at a controversial Dallas-area church. The outspoken Christian quarterback was scheduled to speak at First Baptist Church on April 28.

The church is led by Robert Jeffress, who has been widely criticized for views against homosexuality, Islam and Mormonism. Tebow, announcing his decision Thursday on Twitter, said that he was canceling his appearance “due to new information that has been brought to my attention.”

Tebow’s statement appeared over a series of four tweets on the social media site.

“I will continue to use the platform God has blessed me with to bring Faith, Hope and Love to all those needing a brighter day. Thank you for all of your love and support. God Bless!” he wrote to his Twitter followers.

Tebow was scheduled to speak at the 11,000-member Dallas church as part of a monthlong celebration of the megachurch’s completion of a new building campaign, a $130 million dollar project that encompasses five blocks of the downtown.

“Tim called me last night and explained to me that because of some things going on in his personal life and his career he needed to steer clear of controversy right now, but that at some other date he would like to come and speak at our church,” Jeffress told CNN by phone from Dallas.  “Tim has to do what Tim thinks is best for him right now.”

The First Baptist Church of Dallas is a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.  Jeffress, who has been in its pulpit since 2007, is no stranger to controversy.

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After introducing Texas Gov. Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit in Washington in October 2011, Jeffress told reporters he believed Mormonism was a cult, expressing a personal position and one held by his denomination.  The move was seen as a particular slight to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a lifelong Mormon.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, while acknowledging sharp theological differences with the Southern Baptist Convention, bristles at the term cult and says it is inaccurate.

Jeffress has also drawn fire for his comments about homosexuality, Judiasm and Catholicism.

“This in no way is going to diminish what our church is teaching about salvation being available to all through faith in Jesus Christ,” Jeffress said.

Jeffress pointed out that Tebow is a member of the First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, a fellow SBC church.

“They certainly believe what we do, that salvation is through Christ alone, and about homosexuality.  Tim confirmed that to me last night, that they believe exactly what we do about homosexuality.”

Tebow and Jeffress differ dramatically in how they present their faith.  Tebow in talking about his faith has used much softer language, while Jeffress has no trouble going after less popular and culturally sensitive issues in Christianity.

CNN Belief Blog: Quarterback moves to trademark 'Tebowing'

“I believe that homosexuality is a sin just like adultery is a sin, just like I believe premarital sex is a sin, because it’s a deviation from God’s standard,” Jeffress said.

“God’s plan for sex is that is should be between a man and a woman in a marriage relationship and any deviation from that is wrong.”

While he believes any sex outside a heterosexual marriage is wrong, he adds, “I never single out homosexuality as the only sin or the unpardonable sin. I think homosexuality, just like adultery, can be forgiven if we ask God for forgiveness.”

Jeffress said he thinks there is a genetic disposition toward homosexuality, a stance on sexual orientation taken by many theologically conservative Christians and one scorned as scientifically flawed by the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.

Jeffress said he is sure there are gay members in his church.  “We don’t ask all the gay members to stand up, but I’m sure that there are people who are gay in our church simply because of the letters I have received,” he said.  “We have people who’ve committed adultery and who lie and who steal, but that doesn’t mean they’re not welcome to come to our church.”

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

As for comments about Mormons, Jews and Catholics, he is quick to point out that he believes “no one goes to hell in a group.”

“I’m not the one who decides who goes to heaven and hell. God does that. God has already given us the criteria for what it takes to go to heaven when you die. Jesus said in John 14:6, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the father except through me.’  When I quote that verse I like to remind people that Jesus who said that was not a Southern Baptist evangelist but a Jewish rabbi. Yet as a Jewish rabbi he said there is one way to heaven, and that is through faith in me.”

The controversy surrounding Tebow’s appearance won’t dampen the church’s plans, Jeffress said. He said Tebow, while escaping the spotlight now over his beliefs, will continue to face controversy.

“I think Tim is going to discover that no matter how hard you try to hide from controversy, if you stand for the simple truths of the Bible, like faith in Christ, necessary for salvation, and sex (being acceptable only) between a man and a woman in marriage, you can't avoid controversy.  That’s something Tim needs to discover on his own.  We in no way want to impugn him.  He’s a great man of God who sincerely loves the Lord.”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Baptist • Christianity • Church

soundoff (2,828 Responses)
  1. Sara Howells

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcyW7rMYR7A&w=640&h=390]
    *.

    February 24, 2013 at 7:03 am |
  2. Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

    Well, at least Jeffress was right when he referred to Mormonism as a cult. Granted, they're ALL cults – too bad he's too brainwashed to recognize that.

    February 24, 2013 at 6:28 am |
  3. lol??

    "Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?".............UUUUUmmmm Daddy O, the gubmnt god's shepherd??

    February 24, 2013 at 6:16 am |
    • John

      Paul saw Jesus directly on the road, so he knew Jesus exists, the Holy Spirit exists, and God exists.

      But Paul had to have faith that Jesus died for the sins of others.

      February 24, 2013 at 7:03 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      "Paul say Jesus on the road'? No he didn't.

      Even if he did, that in no way proves the Holy Spirit exists or that God exists.

      You're relying on excerpts from one of many contradictory Holy Books. Time to broaden your perspective.

      February 24, 2013 at 7:46 am |
    • John

      For Paul to see Jesus on the road, requires that God used the Holy Spirit to form Jesus in Mary's womb... as per the angel's discussion in the gospels. Jesus appearing to Paul, confirms the other two by default. Paul had absolute knowledge of all three when he saw Jesus on the road... but Paul still had to have faith that Jesus died for the sins of others that would believe him.

      February 24, 2013 at 7:59 am |
    • clarity

      Some Xtians say Paul didn't actually see Jesus, but heard a voice. More likely Paul was got really sick – maybe from some bad food or he OD'ed on something and had some wild hallucinations and then became a believer out of despair and having heard what the Xtian myth claimed to offer.

      February 24, 2013 at 8:15 am |
    • John

      Acts 9 says that Saul saw a light from heaven all around him and heard Jesus's voice. The others with him saw no man, and heard the voice. Are you claiming it was a mass delusion? They were all sick all at once?

      February 24, 2013 at 8:52 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      @ John – you DO realize that the Bible is simply a book, right? Written by people, translated, retranslated, and modified over thousands of years? The Lord of the Rings says that lots of Hobbits saw Gandalf do amazing tricks with fireworks – does it make it true? Would you claim that the Hobbits were suffering from mass delusions? No – you'd say, hey, it's just a book – it doesn't prove anything. Same as the Bible.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Larry

      John
      He thought he heard Jesus's voice but, since he never knew Jesus when he was alive, it could have been anybody's voice, even Satan's. That might explain why Paul managed to make Christianity a gentile religion.

      Actually, in one of the three separate accounts of this in Acts, the others didn't hear the voice, or maybe it's understand it. There are just so many different translations. Could it be a delusion? Paul doesn't tell this story in any of his letters, so it could be just that, a story.

      February 25, 2013 at 12:27 am |
  4. ahappyfarmer

    I'm glad that Tim stands up for this, but I wish they would dive more into the 130 million dollar project. That is a lot of money and I would like to see a story on that.

    February 24, 2013 at 3:02 am |
  5. Badda Bing

    Of the many intensely stupid fundies we have had here, John is trying very very hard to be the dumbest. I don't think he will ever strip Adelina/Frederica/Happy Meal of her top, but you have to admire him for trying so hard!

    February 24, 2013 at 2:22 am |
  6. John

    In summary, a slug is atheist. They are slow, slimey, and low IQ, and they like the dirt. They do not like salt either.

    Yes

    February 23, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • Answer

      Never winning in an argument against us atheists has this profound effect on the pitiful minds of religious retards.

      It's no wonder why you hate atheists so much. Religious loser. XD

      February 23, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, wrong again, John. I love salt.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:09 pm |
    • Guinea Pig Dundee

      So John started with lofty intellectual discussions of locked-in triangles of dats and the sun becoming hair, and he imploded to pure insults that violate the Ninth commandment, do unto others, and just so many other ruels he is supposed to be following.

      Fortunately, the fall was very short.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:19 pm |
    • John

      It is very doubtful that any slugs have read this blog, to become offended by my comment in calling them atheists... which is a fact... and they shouldn't be offended by facts anyway... if slugs can even think.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:28 pm |
    • Answer

      The loser makes another post.. boring.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I think slugs have more in the way of intelligence than you do, John.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
    • Larry

      Salt?!?
      Well, everyone should limit their intake of salt, right John?

      February 24, 2013 at 12:28 am |
    • science

      No go(s) required for evolution John

      Rating MA 17 info below

      With Robots, Humans Face 'New Society'

      Feb. 22, 2013 — Humanity came one step closer in January to being able to replicate itself, thanks to the EU's approval of funding for the Human Brain Project

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130222083029.htm

      February 24, 2013 at 5:25 am |
    • John

      S, you put your trust in things you don't understand, and then proclaim that the "nothing" god of science is somehow voiding God. What you fail to realize is the incredible magnitude of the difference between your environment relative to the almighty God, and your environment compared to the nothing that you propose will save you.

      I'm telling you the truth, God exists. Your nothing god, does not.

      February 24, 2013 at 6:18 am |
    • Science

      John really good stuff great fossil records enjoy

      Geologic Journey 5 of 5 – The Atlantic Coast

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_y2GEgVy2o&w=640&h=390]

      Peace

      February 24, 2013 at 6:22 am |
    • John

      S, you're pointing at dirt and I guess proclaiming that it voids God, correct? It does not void God, he made the dirt too, and all the stuff in the dirt as well. Look, you can't convince me to reject God, I already KNOW God exists, that the Holy Spirit exists and that Jesus exists. The gospels state that Jesus died for the sins of others that would believe him. I agree with what they say. But no, you will never convince me to reject God, or reject Jesus having died for the sins of others... especially while pointing at dirt as a reason to reject him... or anything else for that matter... it was all made by God.

      February 24, 2013 at 7:25 am |
  7. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    February 23, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
    • According to the bible prayer cannot change things

      If god's supreme plan rules in the heavens then prayer is useless. If you pray for something that's not in the plan it won't happen, no matter how hard you pray. And if you pray for something in the plan, it would have happened anyway even without your prayer.
      If god gives us free will, then no matter how hard you pray god refuses to do anything, like not doing anything for the 6m Jews because that would interfere with Hitler's free will

      February 23, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    • John

      Prayer is part of God's plan.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
    • johnsullivanmusic

      Omnicient Omnipresent Omnipotent and I still got to tell him when I have a cold? Makes no sense and prayer never passes a double-blind study

      February 23, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • Guinea Pig Dundee

      Prayer is thinking God needs you to tell him what to do.

      Prayer is not liking God's plan and trying to change it.

      Praying is ignoring the fact that your prayers have never really worked, even though Jesus said they absolutely would.

      Prayer is talking to yourself and imagining it is god.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:23 pm |
    • Larry

      John
      "Prayer is part of God's plan."
      Yes, by having people beg for special treatment it enslaves them to a tyrant. Wonderful plan.

      February 24, 2013 at 12:32 am |
    • John

      It is an absolute honor to be a friend of God, and know him.

      February 24, 2013 at 12:44 am |
    • Jimmy

      John
      Is God really your "friend"? Does he like to do the things you want to do sometimes? I share with my friends. Sometimes we all do what we all like doing, but sometimes we just help one of us with something he want's done. So tell me, does your buddy God help you like this? Will he help you by doing something that he really isn't very keen about, like a true friend would?

      February 24, 2013 at 1:52 am |
    • Religion is

      Superstition

      John, you remind me of a sniveling little creep who can't think for himself. You're so wrapped up in your silly beliefs that you have no mind of your own. You're hopeless. But that's your choice. Just don't try to push your nonsense on others.

      February 24, 2013 at 1:57 am |
    • John

      A friend treats someone as they would want to be treated. If your question is, "would you force a friend to do something they wouldn't normally do, by claiming you won't be their friend anymore if they don't"... then the answer is, that person isn't your friend if you would subject them to that.

      February 24, 2013 at 2:02 am |
    • John

      RIS, I have no idea what happened, I was typing along and all the sudden, I'm at a belief blog talking about God existing.

      February 24, 2013 at 2:08 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      February 24, 2013 at 9:09 am |
  8. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    I have a lot of respect for believers who live their faith and don't attempt to pretend that it's based on fact. They're honest. They know they can't "prove" god exists or that he created the universe. They don't need to. They are secure in their faith and their belief. They don't attempt to convince anyone else based on "facts" or "science." They don't lie and say they "know" anything. They admit that they believe and have faith and that is sufficient.

    It's azzholes like CC, Chard, Gopher, and John who lie through their teeth and wonder why atheists and agnostics ridicule and scorn them.

    If you can't be honest, believers, why should anyone respect you?

    February 23, 2013 at 9:12 pm |
    • John

      Tom, it is your claim that someone is lying if they know God exists. This tends to explain why you're unable to believe the prophets in the bible telling you and others, that yes, God exists... because you assume they have to be lying to say such. I get absolutely nothing from others in saying God exists... except negative responses... the opposite of what you expect. And that's how it should be if you love God.

      You didn't bother to believe God, so you never found him, or ended up knowing him. Now you curse anyone that knows him, over all history, your claim is they lied... for nothing... just to lie for no reason. The truth is Tom, it is YOU that is lying, for nothing. I said the truth, God exists, and I know it.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's not a claim. It's a fact.

      You can go on blathering, but it won't make a bit of difference. You aren't plausible. You're not even close to being honest.

      You do more harm than good. Best to find another calling, honey. You suck at this one.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
    • End Religion

      John, tell us again how people rise from the dead, left and right, morgues full of them.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What's really odd is that you say that I lie. Why would I? I have no agenda. I don't give a crap what anyone believes. I don't have a book to sell or a church to support or a priest to feed. I derive nothing and I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not.

      You do. Otherwise it wouldn't irk you so when people tell you your religion is sh!t.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
    • John

      Tom, it's the same thing today, as thousands of years ago. Jesus went around telling them that yes, God exists and he knew it. The apostles knew it too after being around Jesus. But your claim is that they all lied. If I tell you now, I become a liar to you in saying the truth, the same truth said thousands of years ago. It is your claim that the truth, is a lie. You base that claim, on nothing. You expect others to deny the truth, and accept a lie. Like I said, you can find any text, anywhere over all history, and it won't change the fact that God exists. And when given the truth, you don't want it, instead you want a lie... because it's what you wanted... you don't want to believe God or know him.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, sweetie, you misunderstand. I have never claimed that I know there's no god. I simply see no evidence for one. Your claim that you "know" one exists is a lie, or you'd have evidence other than a 2000 year-old book. You don't. You believe. That's apparently not enough for you.

      That's not my problem. It's yours.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:49 pm |
    • johnsullivanmusic

      @john if you spend time here, and Im sure you do, You know that non-believers think you are ignorant right? Knowledge comes with proof Belief can come from anywhere but it has nothing to do with the truth or what is real

      February 23, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
    • John

      Jesus knew God exists, so did Moses, so did the apostles, and other prophets. They had no doubt, yet the high priests at the time of Jesus, rejected Jesus and had him put to death for simply saying, God exists and that they didn't know him, or care to know him. If you can understand that, you now understand how I can know God exists, and others will miss it, and call me a liar for saying that I know he's there.

      The sun became black sackcloth of hair... if you don't believe the apostle saying that, you won't believe me either... because I'm repeating what he said, and it's the truth. God exists, he made his creation. Give him the credit he's due for what he did.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      But I don't believe a god DID create the universe. I can't MAKE myself believe something that makes no sense to me. Your drivel about NASA photographs and hair just makes the whole thing look even more ridiculous.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
    • End Religion

      John can you go over the triangle locking hairy sun thing again? I am confused about what it has to do with your fear of vagina.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
    • Larry

      John
      Jesus, Moses, the apostles and prophets all probably thought God existed. For thousands of years people had no doubt that astrology actually predicted people's futures, and millions of people still do. They are absolutely convinced of it. Throughout our history as a species many millions of people believed in other gods and goddesses as strongly as the Jews came to believe in YHWH. They knew their gods existed too, so what you're describing isn't a particularly compelling argument for belief in God.

      February 24, 2013 at 12:48 am |
    • John

      Larry, you claim they "thought" God existed. When Jospephus, a historian told Vespasian, that while in prison, God told him that Vespasian would be emperor, was Josephus just imagine it, or did God really tell him? When the apostle said the sun would become like black sackcloth of hair, and it did recently, was the apostle just imagining it, or did God show it to him like he said he did?

      February 24, 2013 at 2:24 am |
    • End Religion

      John you have terribly low requirements for being a god. I told a friend of mine Obama would be elected President before he was. That doesn't mean God told me anything, doofus. And the sun did not turn black. Do you need glasses?

      February 24, 2013 at 9:29 am |
    • Damocles

      John is fascinated by big balls that look like they have hair on them. Hey, I don't judge.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:33 am |
    • Larry

      John
      Josephus thought that Vespasian was the Messiah, not Jesus, and that Hercules was a real person.

      What evidence do we have that the sun would became like black sackcloth of hair? Seriously, how do you know that this really happened? Because somebody said it did in a book?

      February 24, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
  9. Nietodarwin

    Tebow is NOT going to speak, or pray his SICK little prayer that he does. BRAISE THE LORD !!!!!!

    February 23, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • John

      What will God back at and enjoy? What will he remember? What day?

      February 23, 2013 at 8:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "What will God back at and enjoy"? What the frick are you smoking?

      February 23, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • End Religion

      John there are likely low-cost or even free community services in your area to help you with your insanity. These are likely unlocked for you.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • John

      "What will God look back at and enjoy? What will he remember? What day?"

      God will judge everything said, everything done, he knows it all, birth to death, for everyone over all history. Time is ticking away...

      February 23, 2013 at 9:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So your god let you fvck up your post? Why wasn't he proofreading for you?

      February 23, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
    • John

      That's a good point Tom, because of that missing "look", this line:

      "What will God look back at and enjoy? What will he remember? What day?"

      Has now been said nearly 4 times. Maybe you will remember it now.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You can't count, John. Nor can you answer any questions I've asked you. Thanks for playing.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:09 pm |
    • Lisa

      @John
      "Time is ticking away..."

      Man, am I ever tired of smug Christians with their threats of doom. Is it any wonder that so many people are just repelled by you? If I have to act like such a jerk to be a "good" Christian like you then forget it. I'd rather take the burning than act so terribly. If your God does punish be for this then he has no concept of "goodness".

      February 24, 2013 at 2:07 am |
    • John

      Lisa, I would suggest that someone that lies about their creator without even knowing him, and hates that others would say he's there, is potentially the bigger jerk. It's all how you perceive someone telling you the truth.

      February 24, 2013 at 2:33 am |
    • End Religion

      John, it'd be nice if you had any concept of what 'truth' means.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • Lisa

      @John
      How on earth can you "lie" about someone you don't even know? You think you know who this "God" is, but there are thousands of other people who also claim to know him and might say that you must be talking about some other god. Why are you more trustworthy than some Christian who thinks that God allows everyone into Heaven, or some Muslim who thinks that only followers of Muhammad will get in, or some Jew who thinks that nobody does? They, and you, all believe that they are telling me the "truth" about the same God. Are all of them liars and jerks too, in your ever so "humble" opinion?

      February 24, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
  10. EX catholic

    Atheists and Idolaters are so much alike, they're like two monkeys in a canoe stuck in a swamp trying to figure out how to get out before it sinks.

    February 23, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Robin

      Christians are so dumb they will pray to their invisible friend then try to walk on the swamp water and drown.

      See it's fun to make up crap about others now isn't it. But what's even funnier is lying is a sin and you couldn't even follow that basic principle.

      February 23, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • EX catholic

      Robin without Batman,

      You just proved me right! Atheists and Idolaters indeed are very much alike.

      February 23, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • His panic

      I think they're in a total state of Panic if the canoe in the swamp is sinking, because monkeys don't swim.

      February 23, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      A hole ex catholic,

      Since you were a catholic you are an idolater. You worshipped idols therefore you are an idolater. Doesn’t matter that you don’t anymore.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      We all have ape-like characteristics, whether atheist or religious. After all, we're not that far along in the evolutionary process. The difference though is that atheists know this and tend to prefer scientific methods to keep the lizard brain in check knowing that it is extremely unreliable when it comes to understanding the world around us. Religious people tend to feed the lizard brain with fantastic stories that makes it feel at ease and reinforce it with concepts such as "faith."

      So I will accept the first part of your assertion if you can accept that the canoe was built thanks to science and reason.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • northern light

      Evolution is a true scientific fact .....but thanks to religious people of all stripes we are now going backward in evolution and intellect.
      We live in a world 2000 years after a man was executed as a human offering to a non existent deity yet the religious still cling to a belief system that sacrificed a human being in hopes that it will rid the world of evil.....and what they call sin.

      February 23, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @northern light, I know it feels like we're going backward, but all of the studies show a slow and consistent motion forward. I believe the latest studies showed a 3% increase in the average IQ. It's depressing that things don't move quicker, but don't lose hope.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • John

      A slug is atheist.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You would know, Johnny. You're about as slug-like as anyone.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
    • John

      Tom, the point was made, that he's claiming atheists would have the higher IQ, when no, dirt has 0 for an IQ, and it's atheist too. And maybe that's the trend in this, atheists want to be an animal, not an intelligent human being.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Aww, John-Boy, you sound a mite desperate. There's no question that the atheists and agnostics who post here are better educated and more intelligent than the thumpers who show up.

      Prove otherwise.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Really, just look at this example: "when no, dirt has 0 for an IQ, and it's atheist too. And maybe that's the trend in this, atheists want to be an animal, not an intelligent human being."

      There's not even an attempt at coherent writing or thought.

      Atheists "want to be an animal"? Where the fvck do you get this laughable idea? Nobody with a brain would make such an asinine statement.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • John

      Tom, it's not an impressive claim to say atheism implies a higher IQ, given both dirt and slugs don't know God either.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom , the Other One

      You didn't know God either, John. You had to hear it from someone, perhaps someone who meant well, but you had to be lied to in order for the idea of God to take hold in you as a child.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
    • John

      Tom, you can find, take, publish any words from all over the world over all history, and the end result is this:

      God exists.

      And I know it.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you can't answer the question. Thanks for the admission of your failure to do so.

      You don't "know" anything. You believe it. That's all. Why do you need to pretend otherwise unless your belief is insufficient? That you keep attempting to "prove" what you cannot is simply undermining your own faith as worthy on its own.

      Pretty telling.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:55 pm |
    • John

      Tom, God chooses to remain hidden to you, because you didn't bother to believe him first, or any of the prophets he sent over history. You call everyone liars that believe God, or know him, yet you expect him to do things to prove himself to you, so he can what, be rejected afterwards? That's a waste of time.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nope. Wrong again, Johnny. I don't "expect" your god to do a thing. I simply see no evidence that one exists. I don't think a 2000-year-old tome of proverbs and stories is evidence of anything except the beliefs of others. I don't believe that the universe required a creator to begin to exist. I don't believe humans are superior to all other forms of life in terms of worth. I don't believe we are inspired by some spirit, nor do I think human life is "sacred." If you can produce some evidence that a god exists, by all means, do so.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
    • End Religion

      If we have to believe to believe, how does this farce get started?

      February 23, 2013 at 10:32 pm |
    • John

      ER, how does it get started? You call up an auto repair place, and you yell into the phone saying "I don't think you guys have ever fixed a car, I don't believe anyone saying you can, you're obviously idiots, and I hate you for saying you can do it, so I will never bother to see if you can, or believe anyone saying you can. Good bye!"

      Most people would claim the person calling the shop above is too skeptical.... because car shops are day to day stuff. But in the case of God, he created a universe, so you expect it's not common enough, and you revert to saying the things above that would be outlandish for anyone calling a shop. Give God the same benefit of the doubt you'd give the shop, or anyone telling you the truth about the shop... or remain skeptical and never get your car repaired.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If a person were to simply accept that any repair shop is reputable, honest, and does good work without any evidence, he or she would be foolish.

      If you have any evidence that your god exists, produce it.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And really, your analogy is lame. What you really want people to do is stare at an empty lot and believe with all their might that a car repair shop is there, in spite of the fact that you have no building and no mechanics visible and no evidence that any cars have been repaired there.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
    • End Religion

      What does tinkering on machines have to do with creating a universe? And if you've ever been to New York you'd know this is exactly how one is expected to deal with a mechanic.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
    • John

      Tom, that is why I said someone would be calling on the phone, they don't even bother to show up, they just call, rant, and hang up. When Jesus said he knew John the Baptist was dead, before anyone had told him, it was because he knew it, through God, the same God you won't give the benefit of the doubt, so you can figure it out. And I'm not saying some lame 5 minute belief test, I'm saying believe God and understand, he is there. Believe the prophets he sent, they told the truth, and got nothing out of it, often times being imprisoned or killed for saying such. Even Josephus said God told him who would be emperor, while he was in prison, and it came true, as God told him it would.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, brother. What part of this do you fail to grasp, John? I don't believe. Doesn't matter what an ancient book claims occurred. It doesn't make any sense to me. In addition, I have zero respect for people like you and so it is counterproductive for you to post ad nauseam about hair, triangles, apostles, prophets, and so forth.

      Your posts simply do more to convince me that I'm on the side of rationality and that you are not.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
    • John

      Tom, it is your loss in not being able to know the most incredible being that made the entire universe, and us.

      February 24, 2013 at 12:53 am |
    • Larry

      EX catholic
      How is a person who doesn't worship anything (atheist) at all like a person who worships idols (idolater)? Actually, if you can picture Jesus in your mind, and you worship him, then you're a whole lot closer to idolater than we are. Or is it the Bible that you actually worship? That really would make you an idolater, wouldn't it?

      February 24, 2013 at 12:56 am |
  11. Reality

    As good students, you have read the reiterations of the "fems" (flaws, errors, muck and stench) of religion. Therefore the seeds have been planted in rich soil. Go therefore and preach the truth to all nations, reiterating as you go amongst the lost, bred, born and brainwashed souls of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism as Rational Thinking makes its triumphant return all because of you!!!!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    February 23, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You're about as interesting as a canned ham.

      February 23, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Platypus Rex

      Tom-Tom, that is a despicable slander! How dare you insult and abuse an innocent party with your bigotry! I demand you apologize immediately to canned ham!

      February 23, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa to the gloriousness that is canned ham.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • lol??

      The more honest would be, "Unclean, unclean!"

      February 23, 2013 at 9:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Maybe for you, lollypop.

      I thought I smelled something.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:06 pm |
    • Reality

      The FEMs- Part 1 Christianity:

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Flaws, Errors, Muck and Stench (FEMS)

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15: 14, Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

      The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      February 24, 2013 at 12:09 am |
    • Larry

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
      "You're about as interesting as a canned ham."

      Some canned ham is very interesting. :-)

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZIerGNMtnk&w=640&h=390]

      February 24, 2013 at 1:00 am |
  12. Banjo Ferret

    Tebow needs to repent and accept Ferretianism as the one true religion if he is to secure his purple energy bubble to paradise. The end is nigh! (banjoferret d c)

    February 23, 2013 at 9:50 am |
    • John

      Get a bible, believe God exists and then read the New Testament first chapter. Read the remaining chapters too. Then go back and read the Old Testament. You don't have as much time left, as you expect and the consequences for what you decide abouit God, are real.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Science

      Remember John Adam had to poke himself to create Eve aye.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • Bob

      Coward John, how dare you reference your evil old testament from your Christian book of horrors, with all its directions from your purported sky fairy for all manner of human rights abuses. Seriously, take a look at what is really in that horrid book, from both OT and NT, and especially in this case note the evil commands from your abusive, murderous sky monster in Leviticus:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      February 23, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Gus

      Notable that atheists generally know the bible better than most Christians do. Better give your demand to read the bible some more thought, John. You're not on firm ground there.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Banjo Ferret

      I do have a bible, it is called the Tweet According to Tim. It's much shorter, has no blatant contradictions, and is much easier to understand. It's not too late John, accept Tim the Destroyer of Worlds into your heart and secure your purple energy bubble.

      February 23, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • Dino Martini

      Actually, the Gospel of Gonzo is the shortest (and best):

      "PARTY!!!"

      February 23, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • northern light

      @ John
      "you expect and the consequences for what you decide abouit God, are real."

      All us non religious folks hope that all you religious morons don't have much time left because the way you have used your time up till now on this planet have been a disaster.

      You might want to get out of that church a little more John and see the real world......are you aware that you live in 2013 North America not 1492 Spain.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
    • John

      Gus, many atheists didn't believe God first, in their attempt to find him, if they ever did.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You weren't on the debate team in high school, were you, John-John? It shows.

      You truly are a lousy salesman.

      If anything, I'm even less inclined to consider belief than I was before I ever read anything on this blog. Posters like you, Chard, Gopher, Lie4ever, and the rest of the proselytizers just reinforce my thinking that religion is nothing but a lie.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
    • Larry

      John
      Get the first Black Sabbath album, drop some acid, and then listen to Iron Man. Listen to the rest of Paranoid then go back and listen to some Big Band music from the 40's. THEN you'll see GOD!!! :-)

      February 24, 2013 at 1:07 am |
  13. Bostontola

    Quiz: who was worshipped as the son of god, born to human mother, had followers that were born again through water, was executed, resurrected, and returned to heaven with the father?

    A) Jesus
    B) Dionysus
    C) Osiris
    D) All of the above

    Answer: D
    Osiris was conceived. 2500 years before Jesus, Dionysus centuries before Jesus. An amazing coincidence.

    February 23, 2013 at 9:45 am |
    • John

      B, typical for skeptic site errors and you fell right into it.

      Given that God creates people, everyone is a son of God physically, but spiritually, people can side with Satan if that's what they want.

      Everyone is born of a woman... except Adam, he was made special by God.

      Being born again does not require water, that is the first birth. Being born of the spirit is the 2nd birth.

      A lot of people have been executed, nothing new there.

      Resurrected... people wake up in morgues all the time, but yes, Jesus did resurrect, through the power of God putting life back in his body.

      Everyone goes to heaven... unless they've rejected God and Jesus dying for their sins. Otherwise, that's between them and God.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • sam stone

      yet, johnnie, you have not refuted anything that was said

      February 23, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • JWT

      "given" that god creates everyone. False since I was definitely not created by your version of a god.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Wrathbrow

      "Everyone is born of a woman... except Adam, he was made special by God."
      Ah, now I understand how adam and eve only had sons and they had children. They were both also women. So the bible does support incest.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • Dane

      John, how about you try to provide some proof for your claims?

      Oh, you don't have any? Thought so.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • sam stone

      "Everyone is born of a woman... except Adam, he was made special by God."

      Eve was born of a woman, Johnnie?

      February 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • northern light

      @ John
      "Resurrected... people wake up in morgues all the time, but yes, Jesus did resurrect, through the power of God putting life back in his body."

      Bullsh-t

      Christians only believe that because a book written 300 years after the "non event" says so.....and of course Christians believe everything they read about the JC and his sunshine band.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • End Religion

      I like how John keeps asserting that "people wake up in morgues all the time" and that this (even if it were true) is somehow equivalent to Jesus' resurrection. He just can't even evaluate his own bullshit.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
    • John

      Sam, his point was that "here are some common things, therefore it's not possible to be true". How so? Because people have died, no one else can die without it being a lie? People are executed all the time, even today. Women give birth, even today... what's new about it?

      February 23, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If that's the point, John-Boy, then why don't you refute it? The fact is that many religions claim the same crap. Do you deny it?

      February 23, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
    • John

      Tom, maybe he could say their breathed air, maybe shopped at the markets, carried some coins occasionally, fished, bathed in a river, lake, fed some animals on a farm... what are other common things people do... hmmm.... and for that, it couldn't possibly be true, right?

      Skeptic sites are set up to FOOL you with ridiculous stuff. If you buy into it, Barnum was right.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John-boy, you have to be a fvcking poe. Unless you're equating eating, sh!tting, and fvcking with rising from the dead, you're a lying ass.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:49 pm |
    • clarity

      And for option A, the embarrassment of the day for the early church was this thing called diabolical mimicry. When charged that the gospel stories were fakes, one would think the early church would have plenty of evidence to get rid of those claims. But several of the early Christian apologists could only come up with the idea that the devil had committed 'plagiarism in anticipation'. That's the ticket. Just say the devil performed plagiarism backwards in time – you know, set it all up in advance to fool everyone. The earlier stories come out looking like the fakes! Plagiarism in reverse. okee dokee. wink wink.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    • John

      Tom, this is classic, because your claim is that if people do common things, then their accounts of their history, can't be true.

      This is why it's said that a skeptic can deny anything right up until you ask if they exist, that they can't deny. Because they come up with some of the most lame reasons to be skeptical.... "he did a common thing other people do!!! It's untrue because of that!"

      Grow up Tom.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I am grown up. I know that there isn't an easy explanation for everything. Unlike you, I don't need some fairy tale answer; I'm happy to accept that there are many unknowns. I prefer that to lies.

      I notice you were unable to address the issue of "common things" including rising from the dead.

      Why is that?

      Never mind. I know why.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:05 pm |
    • John

      Really, atheists should retire the "common things make an account untrue" ... because basically all history becomes void if that is the criteria for keeping, or tossing, historical accounts.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So it's common for all people to rise from the dead, John-Boy?

      Good to know. Then your Christ is nothing special.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • John

      Tom, raising from the dead has happened several times during my lifetime, accounts of it all over the place. As for souls, that's common, all eventually go to be judged by God. It's what you do with yours, that matters for you.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why don't you provide evidence that the account of Jesus's resurrection was true but those of other "gods" were not, John-Boy? Or are you going to continue to dodge the question because you can't answer it with facts?

      Why do you continue to deny that you have no proof? What possible up-side is there for you, when anyone with a brain knows you don't have evidence or proof? Why are your faith and belief so worthless that you discard them and attempt to do what you cannot?

      February 23, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, you're full of crap. People don't die and suddenly come back to life routinely. And if it's so fvcking common as you claim, then what makes your Jeebus anything special?

      You're lame as a recruiter, I gotta say.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • End Religion

      Am I missing something? Why is John arguing that rising from the dead is a common event? If it is common, how does that go to prove any sort of divinity for Jeebus?

      February 23, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
    • End Religion

      lol, TTPS you beat me to it. I don't even understand why John is arguing this. It undermines his entire faith. My goodness this guy is dim....

      February 23, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      He's either a poe or a mentally disabled person who deserves our sympathy.

      February 23, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
    • John

      It being common does not undermine it at all, because Jesus told them ahead of time that it would happen. There were also other miracles over the same period of time such as the angels rolling away the stone from the tomb, and those help you to re-inforce your dis-belief. None of those miracles shocks me in any way. I know God can do anything, create a universe... anything... knowing the end from the beginning... and all inbetween.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It doesn't undermine anything for you, John, because you are willing to abandon all reason and suspend disbelief. That's fine if it's what you want to do. Go right ahead. But don't claim that you have facts or evidence that prove anything. You don't. You have belief and faith. That's all. And that should be enough. I think you're the one who's insecure-you keep attempting to prove what you shouldn't need to prove and what you cannot prove. Why? Do you think you're convincing anyone else?

      February 23, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • End Religion

      I suppose it wasn't best to say it undermined John's faith. It undermines the story that Jeebus' resurrection is somehow divine if it is a common event. It was supposed to be a singular phenomenon supporting the divinity of the supposed son of god. John's belief isn't undermined because obviously there is no rhyme or reason to John's belief. Apparently he doesn't even need Jesus to be divine.

      February 23, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
  14. Science

    Education

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okWkmgkS00w&w=640&h=390]

    Peace

    February 23, 2013 at 9:07 am |
  15. i

    It is glory just to walk with Him
    it is glory just to walk with Him
    He will guard my steps aright
    Through the vale and o'er the heights
    It is glory just to walk with HIm

    February 23, 2013 at 7:38 am |
    • EvidenceBased4

      Wow, you really like your walks with Tebow huh?

      February 23, 2013 at 10:00 am |
  16. Science

    No god)s) required for game Tebow

    Rating MA 17 info below

    With Robots, Humans Face 'New Society'

    Feb. 22, 2013 — Humanity came one step closer in January to being able to replicate itself, thanks to the EU's approval of funding for the Human Brain Project

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130222083029.htm

    February 23, 2013 at 6:52 am |
  17. murdock

    Franklin
    "Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, the cowardly, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them."

    myth believers have a chance? doubt that frank

    February 23, 2013 at 2:51 am |
  18. Info

    An examination of the 300 Prophecies of Jesus from the Jewish Scriptures.

    http://www. amazon. com/300-Times-0-ebook/dp/B00BDFMLAI

    300 Times 0 is 0

    February 22, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • John

      Once you know God is there, it is game over as far as atheists and skeptics being able to influence you. Their reliance on their dinner being able to save them, just proves how little they have thought about what God said.

      February 23, 2013 at 12:30 am |
    • Jimmy

      How does "dinner" save people? The Lamb Chops of God, maybe?

      February 23, 2013 at 12:40 am |
    • John

      Jimmy, atheists claim that by throwing their spaghetti in the air, that it becomes their god. They would be better off to eat their food and find God.

      February 23, 2013 at 5:38 am |
    • End Religion

      John, we have no proof of your god, however we do have proof the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. On your knees!

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw7t5eHVlc4&w=640&h=390]

      February 23, 2013 at 5:49 am |
    • SAcience

      To John

      Rating MA 17 info below

      With Robots, Humans Face 'New Society'

      Feb. 22, 2013 — Humanity came one step closer in January to being able to replicate itself, thanks to the EU's approval of funding for the Human Brain Project

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130222083029.htm

      No god(s) required

      February 23, 2013 at 5:50 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      I don't comprehend how one can be as closed-minded as John. One book, all the answers works for him. Reality isn't quite so simple.

      February 23, 2013 at 6:19 am |
    • John

      TP, the bible is not all there is, but it is like a key to finding God. Every prophet that God interacted with, didn't have the account of that interaction before it happened. The bible is a rememberance of recorded times God interacted, and some history of Israel... but it's not all there is. God hasn't stopped or slowed down, at all... but he won't even start unless you believe him, pick up the key, the bible, read it and figure it out.

      February 23, 2013 at 6:36 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      John: It doesn't matter if the Bible holds some facts, it still does not prove that your god exists. It shouldn't be hard to see why man of that time period would think up the stories in the bible...communication was usually small and due to issues with traveling people had the mob mentality. Mob mentality exists in every society but probably more so back then. As we have advanced in this world and new discoveries have been made, we have been able to share information on a greater level. There's historical accuracies within many many stories but it doesn't make the entire story true. So much of the Bible can be shown to be wrong.
      I'm obviously not going to convince you of my position and you're not going to change my mind. Sorry but it seems futile to debate with you when you won't give the other side a look for a minute. I've at least been on your side to understand it.
      Peace and enjoy this beautiful Saturday.

      February 23, 2013 at 6:47 am |
    • End Religion

      John, why didn't your god stop the FSM from coming into existence, unless of course your god is impotent and the FSM is all-powerful?

      February 23, 2013 at 6:49 am |
    • I

      there is a fountain filled with blood
      drawn from Emmanuels veins
      and sinners plunged beneath the flood
      loose all their guilty stains
      loose all their guilty stains
      and sinners plunged beneath the flood
      loose all their guilty stains

      February 23, 2013 at 6:56 am |
    • John

      TP, what are you saying? That you believed and lost your faith because you read some skeptic sites? If so, you got what you wanted... because your faith is what makes it possible to find God... and without faith you won't find him.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:02 am |
    • John

      ER, stop "nothing"? It doesn't exist to stop it. The people believing it, if there are any, will have to answer to God for their rejection of him... for nothing... and nothing won't save them.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:10 am |
    • Science

      Nature works Johm

      No god(s) required

      Particle Physics Research Sheds New Light On Possible 'Fifth Force of Nature'

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130221192736.htm

      By the way Bible is not a good source for the true creation story John

      February 23, 2013 at 7:16 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      John: Like most non-believers I was raised with parents who were firm believers. My Mother died a christian and is buried in an Anglican cemetery. I am saying that once out on my own and left to my own devices, I discovered a world of information. I left the small town, went to the city and was shocked to hear people of different belief system's not sharing the god I believed in. The more I explored, the more I realized how the possibility of a god just no longer melded with what I was witnessing. I still will attend church for the purposes of weddings and funerals, I am not disrespectful in that regards.
      I personally find that I take more responsibility for my actions and have a greater appreciation for the only life I see existing. I don't require a belief in a god to do good or be happy...if that is what it takes for you, so be it. My only expectation when it comes to having the belief you have or the one of any other religious group is that you don't use it to try to dictate what others do (ie; gay rights; women's rights). I believe that equal rights for all, unless you violate human nature (murder, assault), are global or should be. You respect my right to disbelieve and live my life my way (as long as it does not impact in a damaging way to others) and I'll respect your belief. Rather simple.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:28 am |
    • i

      Why has the Lord done such a thing to this great city?... the answer will be: because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord their God and have worshiped and served other gods.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:34 am |
    • John

      TP, you're on the highway, in a car, going the speed limit, long road trip, and one of the passengers says, "I don't believe there's an engine in this car, stop the car so we can lift the hood to see if there really is one in there". You'd say, "no, really, there is one in there, just believe it, and we'll continue on to the destination, we don't have time to stop and fuss around to prove the engine exists, look, I press the foot pedal, we speed up, and I push the brake, we slow down... that's more than enough proof... we don't have time for you to unbolt the engine and take it apart to prove it's really an engine...". The person says, "fine, stop the car, I want out, I don't want to know if there's an engine any more either, I'll walk".

      That's what you sound like to me, honestly... because I already know God is there. I don't "believe", I know.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:07 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      John: The difference is that an engine can be proven to exist, a god can't be. To make the statement, "I know" is being dishonest...no-one knows for certain (or a Nobel Prize would have been rewarded by now and we would not have reason to question it), just like I don't know for certain a god or gods don't exist...I simply see no need or evidence to support the notion of one. You're good with god, I'm good without.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:23 am |
    • John

      TP, the bible is filled with eye witness accounts, none of them would get prizes, they'd get prison or execution for saying God is there. The things I see as absolute proof God is there, others make claims saying he isn't for any reason they want to invent. Some things never change... but God showing the apostle the sun being like black sackcloth of hair, does tend to say time is ticking, and people will make up their minds for better or worse, until the end.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • sam stone

      john: throwing spaghetti in the air?

      jeebus is waiting. what are you doing down here on earth?

      could it be that you really, deep down don't believe it?

      or that you know that god is a pr1ck who willl be molesting you in the hind quarters for eternity

      February 23, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • Dane

      John obviously spends a lot of time on his knees.

      February 23, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by 'John' contains a False Analogy.

      http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      February 23, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Banjo Ferret

      Ferretians and Pastafarians do coexist peacefully. We recognize them as the other one true religion and we assume they feel the same way about us. Little known fact: Tim the Destroyer of Worlds affectionately refers to the FSM as "Noodles". They often play space poker together. (banjoferret d c)

      February 23, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Posts by 'Banjo Ferret' are very funny.

      http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      February 23, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
    • Jimmy

      John
      The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody. We may play at taking it seriously, but that's only part of the parody as well. You do realize this, right?

      February 24, 2013 at 1:20 am |
    • John

      Jimmy, God will probably expect the promoters of the spaghetti god to save themselves with it, as they never told God they believe him, or helped anyone else to find God, but instead laughed at him and said he's less than a plate of dinner.

      February 24, 2013 at 1:33 am |
    • End Religion

      John, I know the FSM exists just as I know your god does not. This is my truth. Please dress as a pirate and save your soul before it is too late!

      February 24, 2013 at 9:41 am |
    • Jimmy

      John
      Who needs "saving"? Everyone dies. There's no escaping that. All you have is a speculation that some tyrant will punish people for not believing in him when they were alive. Any being that would command people to murder children and old people just as a test of loyalty cannot be trusted to keep their word in anything, so why should I trust that, if he exists, he doesn't torture everyone, only to get his biggest kicks out of the dupes who were gullible enough to believe that he was "loving"? I will not admire someone who ordered genocide, even if they are just a fictional character.

      February 24, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
  19. o

    Atheists are always lying about God and his creation. They are going to be in big trouble.

    February 22, 2013 at 8:31 pm |
    • Aldewacs

      How can they posssibly be lying about something there is no proof for and they therefore don't believe in?

      February 22, 2013 at 8:49 pm |
    • Athy

      It sounds like o is just a kid.

      February 22, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
    • Zombie on a Stick

      So god is like Osama bin Laden? Do what I say or I will really F you up?

      February 22, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • Jimmy

      Sorry, but we just don't see what you "see". To say that we do would be actual lying.

      And why do you guys always make with the threats. "Believe what we do, or else!" If belief in God is so great then why do you need to make threats? It just doesn't make any sense.

      February 23, 2013 at 12:46 am |
    • John

      Jimmy, the problem is not that God isn't showing himself to exist, it's that each time he does, people then say that he didn't. There is an entire bible written up explaining the times he's shown up, and then what, you reject that saying it's not good enough. Short of proving himself to everyone on the planet, every day over all history, what exactly do you propose God should do, so you agree he's there? How many people have to tell you, living, and dead, over all history for you to believe them? Not just that, but the people that tend to tell you God is there... typically get nothing out of it... and often get killed for it.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:41 am |
    • End Religion

      John, he's supposedly a god. It isn't asking much to have him reveal himself. Your argument is about as strong as wet tissue.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:47 am |
    • John

      The classic example, Jesus, all he did was help people, tell them about God, tell them to believe God and love him, and others as yourself. For that, he was crucified. It's in the account, Jesus did nothing worthy of death, even Pilate said so, and Pilate was the one that had to give the order to proceed, due to the high priests inciting the crowd to have it done, or else.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:48 am |
    • End Religion

      John the bible is fiction. We need actual evidence.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:50 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      John,

      "Short of proving himself to everyone on the planet, every day over all history,"
      - what would be wrong with that?

      "what exactly do you propose God should do, so you agree he's there?"
      - dunno, but you'd sure think that a real god would know exactly how, wouldn't you?

      February 23, 2013 at 4:52 am |
    • John

      ER, the accounts consistently repeat that prophets of God tend to end up being put in prison and/or killed, because... guess what... they're not believed. There's a twist though, God says things ahead of time, and the prophet's recorded such, and in the instance of the "sun became as black sackcloth of hair"... it's there... like right now. You can't kill the apostle that said it 2000 years ago, that's the twist... his description from God is there, but the apostle... he's long gone.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:54 am |
    • John

      AFK, if God showed up every day, next thing would be: "that's a naturally occurring event, not God". If God wrote his name on Mars, you'd claim it was random chance. And all this asssumes that God would want to know someone that doubts him first, before believing him... to the Nth level of doubt too... right up to someone asking if you exist, which you can't deny.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:59 am |
    • End Religion

      We got it, John. You believe Green Eggs and Ham is prophetic because it predicts someone will eat ham and indeed they do. Very foretold and wise and all that. And you have a fear of hairy vaginas, and that keeps you from understanding the bible is fiction. We understand. Do you have any other thoughts in your head you could share?

      February 23, 2013 at 5:36 am |
    • Science

      To John

      Rating MA 17 info below

      With Robots, Humans Face 'New Society'

      Feb. 22, 2013 — Humanity came one step closer in January to being able to replicate itself, thanks to the EU's approval of funding for the Human Brain Project

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130222083029.htm

      No god(s) required

      February 23, 2013 at 5:45 am |
    • John

      S, you vastly underestimate God. I'm telling you this because you don't have any idea what he can do. He knows, and I'm serious, he knows your birth to death, not just yours, everyone's, over all time, future included. God can walk right through time, no restriction. The stuff they build... it won't last. You're looking to save your life, but you ignore the source of life: God.

      February 23, 2013 at 6:51 am |
    • Science

      More brain food for your evolved brain John !

      Has Evolution Given Humans Unique Brain Structures?

      Feb. 22, 2013 — Humans have at least two functional networks in their cerebral cortex not found in rhesus monkeys. This means that new brain networks were likely added in the course of evolution from primate ancestor to human.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130222120753.htm

      Peace

      February 23, 2013 at 7:11 am |
    • John

      S, none of that matters. The reason being that Jesus knew John the Baptist had died, before anyone had shown up to tell them. The Holy Spirit is like that... like connecting to God... vast intelligence of everything over all time. It doesn't matter at all what monkey brains do or don't do relative to us... it's like comparing audio speakers, while ignoring the source... saying you don't need the source... who cares... without the source, you get nothing.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:20 am |
    • Science

      Thanks but no thanks John the talking snake does not work !!!!

      Nature does !!!

      Nature works Johm

      No god(s) required

      Particle Physics Research Sheds New Light On Possible 'Fifth Force of Nature'

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130221192736.htm

      By the way Bible is not a good source for the true creation story John

      Peace

      February 23, 2013 at 7:26 am |
    • John

      S, the creation events happened over long periods of time. There is no issue with that. Adam and Eve were in a local wilderness that God created a garden in, no issue with that either.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:54 am |
    • Alf

      The whole of earth was a garden created by God, wilderness appeared after the fall. Eden was a specific garden within the garden.

      February 23, 2013 at 7:58 am |
    • Science

      Separation of church and state

      New science standards created by 26 states (majority) for 2013 and beyond,, .. It is called Stem standards for public schools....

      No god(s) required to graduate.

      By the way creatoin/ID LOST DEPUNKED at the Dover trial in 2005

      Peace

      February 23, 2013 at 8:08 am |
    • Alf

      Science
      What is creatoin/ID ? And what does it matter what happened in Dover?

      February 23, 2013 at 8:15 am |
    • John

      S, hair on the sun... God knew it 2000 years ago. What took them so long to catch up?

      February 23, 2013 at 8:19 am |
    • Science

      Creation young earth does not work !

      Dover Court case can not teach creation/ID in public schools in US forever !

      The talking snake and a rib bone from Adam to make who?

      February 23, 2013 at 8:20 am |
    • John

      S, even Jesus called some there at the time a brood of vipers. It's a spiritual reference, that Satan was decieving them spiritually, and they got kicked out by God because they didn't listen to him.... but instead listened to Satan. Why can't God use the bone and/or DNA from Adam, to create Eve? He can do it how ever he wants regardless.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:49 am |
    • Science

      Plain and simple Adam poked himself hard to do.

      February 23, 2013 at 8:57 am |
    • Banjo Ferret

      Psh, you Christians are ones to talk. Neither of you have accepted Tim the Destroyer of Worlds into your heart and accepted Ferretianism as the one true religion. Ye shall be cast into the Pit of Despair to be devoured by flaming demon marmots for all of eternity! Repent! (learn more at banjoferret d c)

      February 23, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Jimmy

      John
      There are myths and other scriptures that were written which explain when other gods have shown up as well. The other ancients could point to a rainbow and happily explain to you how one of their gods created it. All of these people tell me that your god is just another explanation that another ancient people came up with to explain their world in a time before science.

      Nobody in our society gets killed for preaching about God, but plenty do make quite a good living out of it. A "buy your pastor a Bentley" kind of living, which is living pretty large by anyone's standards. Missionaries get killed in other places around the world not so much because of their faith as because they are trying to replace the indigenous faith which, like all religions, is heavily linked to how those in power control the people. In short, they are killed because they threaten those in power. That's the way it was back when the Roman Emperors threw Christians to the lions and that's the way it is today. They're able to get away with killing missionaries because those countries usually do not have our kind of secular laws which protect all religious belief equally. So, don't fantasize that it actually has anything to do with a rejection of Jesus, per se.

      February 24, 2013 at 1:38 am |
    • John

      Jimmy, no, Jesus actually offended the high priests in a number of ways, he healed on the sabbath, he claimed to be the Son of God (Adam was also a Son of God, so they should not have been so offended by it as they were related to Adam), he claimed to have met Moses and Abraham, and speaking for God, he said before they were, "I am", a reference to being God right there talking to them... which he was, though the Holy Spirit, being right there at the time. They had the power of God right in front of them, and it made them want to riot and kill him... but they were limited by what the Romans would allow them to do, given Roman laws in effect there at the time.

      February 24, 2013 at 2:45 am |
    • Jimmy

      John
      You make it sound as though Jesus was obviously channelling God, but even his closest followers and family had a whole lot of doubts regarding this, right? If the people who knew him best had a hard time believing why do you expect a higher recognition from priests, many of who were probably meeting him for the first time? Remember that there were plenty of messianic claimants at the time, and there was a very great danger that any revolt would be put down violently. Weren't the priests just being prudent in having another troublemaker eliminated, and wasn't Jesus being reckless in coming to Jerusalem during Passover? Maybe he really was crazy to have done that?

      February 24, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
  20. Amen

    The gods that were thought to have risen from the dead were Dionysus, Asclepius, Apollonius of Tyana, Heracles, Tammuz from Babylonia, Adonis of Phoenicia and Attis of Phrygia!

    Amen! Amen!

    February 22, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • Zombie on a Stick

      ZOMBIELAND!!!

      How could you forget Osiris, Quetzlcoatl, Baldr, Baal, Melqart, Adonis, Istar, Persephone, Izanami, and Bari?

      February 22, 2013 at 7:38 pm |
    • End Religion

      the concept of a god needing to rise from the dead i so silly. Could it be any more transparent that it is a human concept that "transcending human life" is only impressive from a human perspective. A god would have no need to lower himself to human stature, or to bother "dying" to prove how awesome he/she is. A god would likely find a more resourceful way to impress us.

      February 22, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Athy

      Like eliminating cancer and mosquitos, for example. That would convert me.

      February 22, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I'm with you on both of those, Athy.

      February 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
    • lol??

      Aliases. You dimbos know what those are.

      February 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
    • ..

      Yep, like lol?? is the alias for 'Kitten Cabooty, Queen Of The Poledancers"?

      February 22, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
    • Zombie on a Stick

      Does anyone here have the slightest clue what lol is frothing about? He posts the most incomprehensible stuff, stuff that doesn't even remotely seem to be related to the conversation. I know he is nutsi-angry, but about what, I have no clue.

      I think he thinks he is writing in English, but . . . WOW!

      February 22, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ Zombie

      Tom Tom TPS and I were just talking about that on another thread. He's like the whiny little kid that keeps hanging around and trying to say clever things, even though everyone usually just ignores him.

      February 22, 2013 at 10:38 pm |
    • Akira

      Zombie, didn't you know? lol?? Is a good Christian.

      February 22, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Athy

      Maybe he's trying to replace LionlyLamb, now that he's apparently been committed.

      February 22, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • Akira

      Shh! Athy, you'll conjour him up by mentioning him!

      February 23, 2013 at 12:16 am |
    • Athy

      Oops, sorry. Mum's the word!

      February 23, 2013 at 12:40 am |
    • Jimmy

      Athy
      Why not ask for something really miraculous, like making all the rich Christians, including the rich pastors, sell everything they have and supporting the poor? Actually seeing Christians do something that Jesus told them to do directly would be very impressive.

      February 23, 2013 at 12:55 am |
    • Athy

      That would be too miraculous. Significant altruism seems to be limited to atheists like Bill and Melinda Gates.

      February 23, 2013 at 1:32 am |
    • End Reigion

      lol?? makes connections in his brain from what we say. These topical connections jump from the initial, to the next, to the next, always making sense to him, almost before he can forms the words of a response. His responses are short because his mind is moving so fast.
      Consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_of_speech

      February 23, 2013 at 2:00 am |
    • John

      ER, people have come back to life before, even present day, some waking up at their funerals, or in a morgue. It is not unheard of. There are also accounts of angels showing up, recently a congressman was near death and he said 2 angels showed up and asked if he was ready to go yet. Life after death, exists. We all have a soul. The issue you have is that you don't believe God could put life back into a body that has died, but again, that happens even present day. Jesus raising again the 3 day was to show that God is there, and that Jesus did show up to die for other sins, to pay the price for those that would believe him.

      February 23, 2013 at 2:17 am |
    • OTOH

      Athy,
      "Significant altruism seems to be limited to atheists like Bill and Melinda Gates."

      In all fairness and sticking to reality, Melinda Gates is Catholic. Bill Gates is agnostic, as is the other huge contributor to their foundation, Warren Buffett.

      February 23, 2013 at 2:38 am |
    • Athy

      So, John. You're going with some congressman's claim, while near death and delusional, that two angels appeared to him (and no one else) as proof of life after death? Wow. Gullibility knows no bounds.

      February 23, 2013 at 2:55 am |
    • lol??

      The Gates tribe?? Isn't that stretching things a BIT?? In the never ending battle between 0's and the 1?? Kicking the bit bucket down the road will lead to a crash.

      February 23, 2013 at 3:51 am |
    • John

      Athy, you assume no one else would believe God, or know he's there as a basis to reject one of an incredible number of people that know God is there. For example, a historian, Josephus was told by God that Vespasian would become emperor, while Josephus was in prison under guard. He told Vespasian this and it later came true.

      Your claim is, as usual, that anyone interacting with God, has to be delusional, a liar, or dreaming. You... are.... wrong. God exists.

      February 23, 2013 at 4:05 am |
    • bobk52

      Don't forget me, I'm god-like in all my ways!

      February 23, 2013 at 5:16 am |
    • End Religion

      John we're still waiting for all this evidence of people rising from the dead left and right. Hurry, please, your soul depends on it.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:45 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.