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Tim Tebow pulls out of speaking at Dallas church
February 21st, 2013
10:40 AM ET

Tim Tebow pulls out of speaking at Dallas church

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - NFL quarterback Tim Tebow has canceled an appearance at a controversial Dallas-area church. The outspoken Christian quarterback was scheduled to speak at First Baptist Church on April 28.

The church is led by Robert Jeffress, who has been widely criticized for views against homosexuality, Islam and Mormonism. Tebow, announcing his decision Thursday on Twitter, said that he was canceling his appearance “due to new information that has been brought to my attention.”

Tebow’s statement appeared over a series of four tweets on the social media site.

“I will continue to use the platform God has blessed me with to bring Faith, Hope and Love to all those needing a brighter day. Thank you for all of your love and support. God Bless!” he wrote to his Twitter followers.

Tebow was scheduled to speak at the 11,000-member Dallas church as part of a monthlong celebration of the megachurch’s completion of a new building campaign, a $130 million dollar project that encompasses five blocks of the downtown.

“Tim called me last night and explained to me that because of some things going on in his personal life and his career he needed to steer clear of controversy right now, but that at some other date he would like to come and speak at our church,” Jeffress told CNN by phone from Dallas.  “Tim has to do what Tim thinks is best for him right now.”

The First Baptist Church of Dallas is a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.  Jeffress, who has been in its pulpit since 2007, is no stranger to controversy.

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After introducing Texas Gov. Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit in Washington in October 2011, Jeffress told reporters he believed Mormonism was a cult, expressing a personal position and one held by his denomination.  The move was seen as a particular slight to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a lifelong Mormon.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, while acknowledging sharp theological differences with the Southern Baptist Convention, bristles at the term cult and says it is inaccurate.

Jeffress has also drawn fire for his comments about homosexuality, Judiasm and Catholicism.

“This in no way is going to diminish what our church is teaching about salvation being available to all through faith in Jesus Christ,” Jeffress said.

Jeffress pointed out that Tebow is a member of the First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, a fellow SBC church.

“They certainly believe what we do, that salvation is through Christ alone, and about homosexuality.  Tim confirmed that to me last night, that they believe exactly what we do about homosexuality.”

Tebow and Jeffress differ dramatically in how they present their faith.  Tebow in talking about his faith has used much softer language, while Jeffress has no trouble going after less popular and culturally sensitive issues in Christianity.

CNN Belief Blog: Quarterback moves to trademark 'Tebowing'

“I believe that homosexuality is a sin just like adultery is a sin, just like I believe premarital sex is a sin, because it’s a deviation from God’s standard,” Jeffress said.

“God’s plan for sex is that is should be between a man and a woman in a marriage relationship and any deviation from that is wrong.”

While he believes any sex outside a heterosexual marriage is wrong, he adds, “I never single out homosexuality as the only sin or the unpardonable sin. I think homosexuality, just like adultery, can be forgiven if we ask God for forgiveness.”

Jeffress said he thinks there is a genetic disposition toward homosexuality, a stance on sexual orientation taken by many theologically conservative Christians and one scorned as scientifically flawed by the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.

Jeffress said he is sure there are gay members in his church.  “We don’t ask all the gay members to stand up, but I’m sure that there are people who are gay in our church simply because of the letters I have received,” he said.  “We have people who’ve committed adultery and who lie and who steal, but that doesn’t mean they’re not welcome to come to our church.”

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

As for comments about Mormons, Jews and Catholics, he is quick to point out that he believes “no one goes to hell in a group.”

“I’m not the one who decides who goes to heaven and hell. God does that. God has already given us the criteria for what it takes to go to heaven when you die. Jesus said in John 14:6, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the father except through me.’  When I quote that verse I like to remind people that Jesus who said that was not a Southern Baptist evangelist but a Jewish rabbi. Yet as a Jewish rabbi he said there is one way to heaven, and that is through faith in me.”

The controversy surrounding Tebow’s appearance won’t dampen the church’s plans, Jeffress said. He said Tebow, while escaping the spotlight now over his beliefs, will continue to face controversy.

“I think Tim is going to discover that no matter how hard you try to hide from controversy, if you stand for the simple truths of the Bible, like faith in Christ, necessary for salvation, and sex (being acceptable only) between a man and a woman in marriage, you can't avoid controversy.  That’s something Tim needs to discover on his own.  We in no way want to impugn him.  He’s a great man of God who sincerely loves the Lord.”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Baptist • Christianity • Church • Faith Now

soundoff (2,828 Responses)
  1. Brett

    "All we like sheep have gone astray; each of us has turned to his own way; but the Lord has laid on Him (Jesus) the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:6 Tebow knows God's forgiveness through Jesus, do you?

    February 26, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Do you know that you're a useless troll? I do.

      February 26, 2013 at 8:55 pm |
    • sam stone

      what have you done that demands forgiveness, brett? violate the dictates of iron age sheep molesters?

      February 27, 2013 at 1:37 am |
    • CrossCountry

      BAaaaaaa hahahaha

      (sorry had to)

      February 27, 2013 at 1:39 am |
  2. CrossCountry

    ...well...at least he pulled out...

    February 26, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If only John's dad had.....

      February 26, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      hahaha

      hey Tom :)

      February 26, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, there! Do I "know" you?

      February 26, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      No no (i dont think so?)...we've only passed by each other 'virtually' on these threads. Course I always enjoy your witty and sometimes inappropriate comments. ha

      February 26, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, that's sorta what I meant. Have you posted under some other name?

      February 26, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      Nope. I have always been CC

      February 26, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
  3. Ol' Yeller

    So according to John, Obama was right on the money when he said, "You didn't make that". According to John, rich people are just blessed, they didn't make anything... those cars in the magazine, God made 'em. Ma didn't cook that meal, it was God. God this, God that, God everything.
    BTW- it wasn't some Apostle who said there was black hairs on the sun, it was Sting... and it wasn't hair, it was a little black spot (that makes as much sense as anything John has written).
    John... I agree with the consensus that every time you open your piehole you drive 3 people to atheism.
    Jeeze.

    February 26, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • John

      God made the materials used in the cars, and the people that designed and built them, I did not suggest that God made the cars per se. I would though like to see a video of "S" in a waiting room where he picks up a car magazine, stands up on a chair and starts telling everyone that:

      - Because the car manufacturer made the cars in this magazine right here
      - the cars were not made by the car manufacturer

      That is a ridiculous, illogical way to think, but it is what "S" is doing in saying:

      - Because God made (for instance) a bird in this article or video clip
      - the bird was not made by God

      It makes no sense at all... but he/she claims it makes sense to think that way.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Idiot, you haven't shown a shred of evidence that there IS a god, much less that he made anything.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:29 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      Um...Tom..

      God definitely made Skittles.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:29 pm |
  4. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill would not is not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well and don't want to violate their beliefs.

    Recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    On sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    ===============================================
    Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?

    Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):

    If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.

    Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    February 26, 2013 at 8:33 am |
  5. lol??

    "..............We have people who’ve committed adultery and who lie and who steal, but that doesn’t mean they’re not welcome to come to our church.”........" No wonder ya can't relax with your relatives at the feast on Sunday mornin'. He's tellin' people to bring all the crooks in to chow down. You invite the whole city to your family reunions?? That ain't gonna work out. If he's too lazy to do the evangelizing thru the week like everybody else he should get a new job.

    February 25, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • ..

      I'll bet he reaches far more people than you do with your sadistic, nasty "wit". Shut up.

      February 25, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
    • John

      .., lol?? is like this brilliant light that you can't see because you're blind, you look at the text and don't realize what's being said or why it matters. God wants things as he wants them, he's made offers of forgiveness through Jesus's sacrifice if someone's done wrong, to help them correct themselves and get back to him. But if they aren't willing to do that, lol?? is right, it isn't going to help to tell people that God wants sin... because he doesn't.

      February 25, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
    • clarity

      Get ya some triangles, lol?? to lock things in. Just don't use them on food for the freezer.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:02 pm |
    • ..

      Bull. Both lol and John are the furthest thing that Jesus had in mind for his followers; both spread His word so dismally that they do more harm than good.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:38 pm |
    • John

      That's not fair to lol?? to say that, he knows a lot more about God than I do. If understanding God was like golf, and lol?? and I were playing, the combined score would be about 100, and I'd be most all of that, probably 99.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • Yosemite Spam

      John, you expect God to post a 1 in an 18-hole round of golf?

      Okey dokey.

      Don't sniff so much glue tomorrow, okay?

      February 26, 2013 at 12:03 am |
    • Jeff

      No, he seems to mean lol would get a 1 for all eighteen holes. I bet it has something to do with locked in trianges of days that only angels can unlocked.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:05 am |
    • John

      I don't know much about golf so that's a bad example. But if God was playing golf, he'd hit the ball and it would break into 18 peices, and you can guess where they'd all go... in one shot.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:33 am |
    • End Religion

      John, post more about you and lolly's fear of hairy triangles. Fear of afterlife and fear of women are at the root of religion.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:39 am |
    • Johnny Guitar

      John, on behalf of all the atheists and seculars in the world, we all, and I mean ALL, want you out there sharing your insights with as many people as you can. Get out on the street corners, shout it from the balcony, just let the world hear a Christian.

      Seriously. We could not ask for a better recruiter for atheism that you.

      February 26, 2013 at 2:30 am |
    • John

      A gift is a precious stone in the eyes of him that hath it; withersoever it turneth, it prospereth. Proverbs 17-8

      February 26, 2013 at 2:50 am |
    • Science

      John

      Stem cell gift works better

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130225153130.htm

      February 26, 2013 at 8:13 am |
    • John

      S, I have stem cells, God makes them... how do you think your body does repairs?

      February 26, 2013 at 9:11 am |
    • Science

      Read something today besides the bs in the Bible you might learn something.

      Peace

      Old GW did not like stem cell research go figure.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:29 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      If God made stem cells, and intended them to make bodily repairs, then you'd think that the almighty Designer of the universe would give us the same regenerative power that some other creatures have. Some can actually grow new limbs. Why didn't God give us that power too?

      February 26, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Damocles

      It's obvious, starfish are the true chosen, we are not.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • John

      Franklin, if you really want to regrow limbs as a starfish on the bottom of the sea floor, it's likely that God could arrange for that to happen... I personally prefer being a human being.

      February 26, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Franklin

      John
      I think that you're referring to reincarnation there. Not many Christians would argue that God changes people into lesser life forms, possibly to live out their days in the relative comfort of some dentist's aquarium, when they have the delightful image of sinners roasting forever in Hell to comfort them. A thousand years ago the Church might have branded you a heretic for suggesting such a thing.

      February 26, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • John

      Jesus cast the demons out of the man, into the herd of swine and the they fell into the sea. I would assume God could do such with starfish.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why is your god not capable of re-growing limbs on people?

      February 26, 2013 at 9:15 pm |
    • John

      Mat 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched [it] forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And this occurred when, exactly, dumbazz?

      Why not now? Why didn't your god stop 20 kids from being slaughtered, their last moments filled with terror and pain?

      You're such a shmoo.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • John

      You are suggesting that God should stop:

      - a young adult that trained hours each day in virtual worlds
      - to kill as many as possible as fast as possible
      - for rewards and no punishment
      - that idolized another young adult that did the same
      - and tried to beat his "score" before the "game reset"

      God should stop that? What happened to people stopping it? Why did people train both of them to do it, along with just about every other kid playing those games? And before you go off on guns, they use anything to kill in the games, not just guns.... kill with your fists, chain saws, fire etc... great stuff to teach kids right?

      Did God say to do that? Then why do you want to blame him for it when he said not to?

      February 26, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If he can't do that, why worship him? He's not omnipotent if can't do anything to stop incidents like Aurora and Newtown. And he isn't omniscient if he didn't know they were going to happen. If he isn't all-powerful and all-knowing, why grovel for him? And if he IS omniscient and omnipotent and CHOSE not to intervene, then he's a monster. Why worship that?

      February 28, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
  6. Science

    Dover Trial Transcripts

    Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

    http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

    February 25, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • John

      S, nothing you've posted has disproven God in any way. And putting God on trial, that's like trying to put out the sun with an empty squirt gun.

      February 26, 2013 at 1:36 am |
    • Science

      Just in your mind john

      February 26, 2013 at 5:16 am |
    • John

      S, believe me, you don't know how ridiculous this looks:

      - God makes something... anything... a bird
      - S, then posts an article about the bird and claims it disproves God

      How do you figure an article about something God makes, somehow disproves he made it? It's as ridiculous as picking up a car magazine and pointing at the articles in a waiting room and telling everyone there that no one made the cars. That's silly... but you do it anyway.

      February 26, 2013 at 6:29 am |
    • Science

      It is a mind game played on you John !

      Adam poked himself with is own bone to create EVE (hard to do )

      Creationism/ID got depunked. Did you read the transcripts ?

      February 26, 2013 at 6:42 am |
    • John

      S, if you can tell me how an apostle could know there's "black hair on the sun", 2000 years ago, when even NASA didn't know it until just months ago... you'll STILL never be able to convince me to reject God... because I know he's there. I know what you do not know, because you didn't bother to believe people telling you the truth, instead you go to liars telling you a fable. That because God makes a bird, you claim it's reason to reject God... that him making something, is reason to reject him. That is ignorant and silly.

      February 26, 2013 at 7:03 am |
    • Jesus

      @John
      S, if you can tell me how an apostle could know there's "black hair on the sun", 2000 years ago, when even NASA didn't know it until just months ago...

      Please explain what you're talking about here.

      February 26, 2013 at 7:08 am |
    • Science

      It is the hair on your a-ss John

      No gods reqiured.

      Or the as-s of bigfoot !

      February 26, 2013 at 7:08 am |
    • Brother Maynard

      John sez:
      "S, nothing you've posted has disproven God in any way"
      Correct
      But what it does prove is that god's infallible word (creationism ) and the subsquent deceitful christian based fabrication of ID is totally WRONG. Not only scientifically wrong ... but judiciously wrong.

      February 26, 2013 at 8:29 am |
    • Science

      Brother Maynard

      And they are still trying hard to push the crap...

      Peace

      February 26, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • John

      BM, you're apparently saying that God creates, but he doesn't design anything.

      Look, I'll spell it out for you: God makes whatever he wants, when ever he wants to.

      God is the most incredible designer, ever, so creative, none ever like him, or ever will be like him. Certainly not "nothing" doing it, but that's never stopped liars from claiming it... so they don't have to admit God made what he said he made... or do what he said to do... of which, he'll ask them why they didn't... and their "nothing" god won't answer for them, or save them.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:06 am |
    • Brother Maynard

      John sez:
      "BM, you're apparently saying that God creates, but he doesn't design anything."
      I didn't say anything to that at all. Reread what I wrote.

      But I'll play your game
      John then sez
      "Look, I'll spell it out for you: God makes whatever he wants, when ever he wants to."

      So you admit God created and designed evil.
      -sarcasm on-
      Definately a super natural being to be worshiped
      -sarcasm off -

      February 26, 2013 at 9:21 am |
    • John

      BM, God defined good and evil, he said what he wanted. If you chose to do evil, that is wrong.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:53 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's CHOOSE, John. "Chose" is the past tense of "choose." You chose to do something in the past. You choose to do something in the present.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:58 am |
    • Brother Maynard

      John sez:
      'BM, God defined good and evil, he said what he wanted. If you chose to do evil, that is wrong.'
      OK
      1) so what is the difference between 'defining' and 'creating' ( good and evil in this case )
      or are you saying that good an evil exisited prior to god
      2) Please tell me what god wants/ what is his plan? ( or for that matter IS there a 'plan' )

      *** fair warning ***
      I'm setting you up for a big fall

      February 26, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Science

      Evening Brother Maynard

      Love your fair warning .

      Please reply to Brother Maynard John...

      February 26, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • John

      BM, repeating the answer before... God defined what is good, and what is evil. Is there an issue with this?

      February 26, 2013 at 9:49 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      Sorry for the late response ... had to work late

      John sez:
      "BM, repeating the answer before... God defined what is good, and what is evil. Is there an issue with this?"

      Is there an issue ? Absolutely not.
      I just want you to tell me the difference between 'defining' ( good and evil ) and creating ( good and evil )
      Defining something assumes that that thing existed prior to discovery and THEN you call it 'X'
      Creating something assumes that that thing never existed.
      As an example:
      Columbus discovered a new world and called it America ( sort of – Amerirgo Vespuscci is who America is actually named )
      Henry Ford created the automobile.

      So if god defines good and evil then these thing existed prior to god.

      OR maybe it was created and defined in the same breath ( which I can actually accept )
      In that case god created the very thing that makes our life hell. ( which begs the question 'why do we worship him?' )

      please answer my initial questions
      1) so what is the difference between 'defining' and 'creating' ( good and evil in this case )
      or are you saying that good an evil exisited prior to god
      2) Please tell me what god wants/ what is his plan? ( or for that matter IS there a 'plan' )

      February 26, 2013 at 11:47 pm |
    • John

      BM, apparently you're serious. You have a board game, Monopoly, there's a rule book, it defines proper game play or "good" play during the "lifetime" of your playing in the game. Good rules would include moving your peice around the board square by square based on the dice roll value in a specific direction. Evil would be to reject the rules and jump to the other side, steal the houses and cash, throw the other player's piece, flip the board off the table, etc...

      It's kinda like that... the guy writing the rules for Monopoly, did not force people to be evil while playing it.

      February 27, 2013 at 2:11 am |
    • Platypus Rex

      The inventor of Monopoly doesn't torture people forever because they don't kiss his ass. And he doesn't care if people change the rules, or invent new games. In fact, he's fine with it as long as people buy the game.

      The inventor of Monopoly would be a better god than God, because he isn't so intolerant and violent and such a megalomaniac.

      February 27, 2013 at 2:22 am |
    • John

      PR, given rules and consequences for actions, as well as the offer of forgiveness if you repent and try not to sin anymore, why do you avoid the obvious thing to do, rather than do it?

      February 27, 2013 at 4:19 am |
  7. godsngodsngods

    yr gods is real

    my gods b real

    my gods don't like blood yo.

    my gods kick yr gods asses

    February 25, 2013 at 7:35 am |
    • Saraswati

      I'm guessing you mean a bloodless kicking of asses?

      February 25, 2013 at 7:39 am |
    • sam stone

      lol

      February 25, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • sam stone

      that's what she said. member murdie? me to. what it be. you.

      i love me, u, to?
      yo

      February 25, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • end gods

      baby. yo

      February 25, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • punkpin eater

      that's what i said. so?

      February 25, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • marx nkarl

      god ain't no yo.

      i am hip, dude.

      stick god in atheits rear end. yo? lol

      February 25, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • i am god

      no. i is.

      February 25, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • i am god

      sam stone ain't no yo, yo

      stop all them yos, yo.

      dig it?

      religion got to go, too, man. u dig?

      yr god is tooth fairy

      i b god

      lol

      February 25, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • i am god

      tom tom peter pan

      is this u, yo?

      perty fun dude.

      cant stop wit da laughin, u no?

      u are killin me.

      algabra gods son

      trig wholly gost

      do da mat

      February 25, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • sam stone

      gee, someone stealing my screen name....how novel

      February 25, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Woof

      Look! lolly went on a troll bender.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:50 pm |
  8. sciencebdaman

    satan is god, yo.

    get wit da yo

    blood sucks

    child sacrifice = gods and blood

    February 25, 2013 at 7:33 am |
    • i am god

      satan ain't no notin, yo.

      i be da gods

      sceince is yea.

      suckers.

      blood baths baby. lol what it is

      February 25, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • i am god

      sceince is just all write with me

      2nd person of trnity

      lol

      sam stone wholly spirit, yo. lol?

      lol!

      February 25, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
  9. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things !

    February 25, 2013 at 7:23 am |
    • Science

      If prayer changes things pray for the apes to get more apps ok !
      Peace

      February 25, 2013 at 7:48 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!,

      February 25, 2013 at 8:36 am |
    • John

      Prayer is wonderful, and I thank God for it.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • Duh

      meditation is wonderful and that's all prayer is because there is no God.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • John

      Meditation is forcing yourself to think about nothing, praying to the "nothing" god, similar to being in a casket in the ground.

      Prayer is a connection to God.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • Franklin

      John
      "Prayer is a connection to God."

      Well, you think it is anyway.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
    • Religion is

      Superstition

      I'm a devout atheist; and I don't need to thank god nor anyone else for it.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:06 am |
    • John

      Franklin, prayer is a real connection to God. You shouldn't waste it though with endless chanting. IMO, if what you'd say to God, you wouldn't want to hear either... you're close.

      February 26, 2013 at 2:12 am |
    • Science

      John take your own advice please
      Stop the chanting

      It really does not work prayer.

      Peace

      February 26, 2013 at 6:20 am |
    • John

      S, prayer works so well, that when the apostle said that so many books could be written about what God has done, that weren't included... he wasn't hyping it up, or kidding... at all. He was being very matter of fact about it.... but you won't find out because you don't bother to believe people telling you the truth... that you don't want to hear.

      February 26, 2013 at 6:39 am |
    • Science

      John if prayer works, why are people in jail for trying to heal thier sick children with paryer ?

      February 26, 2013 at 6:56 am |
    • Science

      Oops dame thumb prayer

      February 26, 2013 at 6:58 am |
    • John

      S, it is common knowledge that if people don't follow the local laws, they will probably end up in jail.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:19 am |
    • Science

      Prayer does not work John.

      Peace

      February 26, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      So, prayer is a real connection to God because you say it is, just like a Hindu might claim that achieving Nirvana will bring you in union with Brahman. I don't see any evidence for either case, so I don't accept either of your beliefs. Simple as that.

      February 26, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
    • John

      S, God does not listen to prayers from atheists, one because atheists reject him, and two because atheists do not pray to him.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Prayer doesn't work for believers, either, John. You're full of sh!t.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:00 pm |
    • John

      Prayer works great if it is a "win-win", where God gets some great fruit out of it for little effort. If it is "win-lose" soviet style, no he has all eternity, all power, and knows the end from the beginning... good luck trying... it probably won't happen.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, John. Prayer doesn't work. For anyone.

      When someone devoutly worships and believes with her whole heart, commits her life to god, and prays, nothing happens at all.

      Nothing.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:25 pm |
    • John

      My experience is that God is everything he is said to be in the bible... and more.

      How do you know God didn't listen or act on something he also wanted?

      February 26, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
    • Billy

      No one knows if there is a higher being or not, John.

      February 27, 2013 at 8:50 am |
  10. John

    S, this is what your reply about chimps looks like to me:

    Science and Sam Stone are talking in an electronics store. Science looks over at the PCs and then feels an overwhelming enlightenment, and starts telling Sam that because the PCs are different this year, that no one made them. Sam smiles and realizes they are both superior in now knowing the truth about how PCs show up at the store.

    The reality is though, God makes what ever he wants, when ever he wants... just like the PC manufacturers do.

    February 25, 2013 at 7:23 am |
    • Saraswati

      And John is in the store looking on concluding that just because science made an error in understaning there could be similar PCs he, john, must be right in his ass umption that the goddess Athena made all the PCs.

      February 25, 2013 at 7:30 am |
    • Science

      Education works best John !

      New LAND MASS DISCOVERED ! Over 60 million years old.
      New land mass is older than the bible !

      Fragments of Continents Hidden Under Lava in Indian Ocean: New Micro-Continent Detected Under Reunion and Mauritius

      Feb. 22, 2013 — The islands Reunion and Mauritius, both well-known tourist destinations, are hiding a micro-continent, which has now been discovered. The continent fragment known as Mauritia detached about 60 million years ago while Madagascar and India drifted apart, and had been hidden under huge masses of lava.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130224142725.htm

      February 25, 2013 at 7:36 am |
    • John

      As Science and Sam leave the electronics store smiling, Sam notices a man hole cover in the street and says to Science, "Don't tell me, I already know, no one made the man hole cover either, right?". Science winks at Sam as they get in their cars nobody made and drive off down the road nobody paved.

      February 25, 2013 at 8:01 am |
    • Science

      Moving forward John you might want to take a blood test.

      Scientists Find Genes Linked to Human Neurological Disorders in Sea Lamprey Genome

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130224142915.htm

      Peace

      Facts work .

      February 25, 2013 at 8:06 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Tom, After making his point John couldn't think of another one, so like most of these folks he's just repeating the same idea over and over...nothing added with the manhole cover or cars that wasn't in the first post.

      February 25, 2013 at 8:30 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Ask John why manhole covers are round.

      February 25, 2013 at 8:31 am |
    • John

      S, let me remind you about DNA, science said most all of it is "junk" and used that as a claim against God making it.

      Now science claims DNA isn't mostly junk... and uses that as a claim against God.

      I'm seeing a pattern here... when ever God does something, science comes along and says what he did is a reason to reject him.

      As such, I would spell science more like "s t u p i d i t y" at least in their how to reject God tactics.

      February 25, 2013 at 8:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      John, I did go into what "junk" DNA looks like, albeit in a rambling sort of way. Let's try again: Imagine an old-fashioned movie studio editing room with clips from thousands of movies on the floor. Someone decides it would be fun to splice them all together at random. Some are clips are in backwards, some are not. Some are repeated over and over again and there are a lot of frames with just timers, numbers, scrawled notes and even just blank frames. Someone else decides that this stuff ("junk" DNA) should be shown before and after every movie (gene). That's not really analogous to how it all happened, but that's kind of what the genome looks like.

      February 25, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Saraswati

      Are you talking about Science the commenter here or science as a general organizing concept? Because "science" doesn't "claim" anything anymore than "cooking" or "swimming" claims anything. And speaking of ambiguity, you have several times addressed "S" in threads where multiple commenters have names beginning with that letter. Could you please be more clear about who you are talking to?

      February 25, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Science

      Nature works the best John

      Particle Physics Research Sheds New Light On Possible 'Fifth Force of Nature'

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130221192736.htm

      Have a Great day !

      February 25, 2013 at 8:48 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      You do understand that the "Creation" has never been perfect, eh John?

      February 25, 2013 at 8:48 am |
    • sam stone

      John: Where did I say that "no one" made the universe?

      If you are going to argue a point, at least do not misrepresent the opposing point, or it makes you look like a fool (again).

      February 25, 2013 at 8:51 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sara, John is just plain stupid. He doesn't make a single intelligent case-for anything.

      Dumb as a friggin' box of hair. Oh, wait–never mind; that might get the mental midget to start yapping about the hairy sun and triangles again.

      February 25, 2013 at 8:53 am |
    • John

      Tom, both the hairy sun and triangle of days are obvious... at least to the apostles it was.

      February 25, 2013 at 9:35 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Did you fail reading comprehension, John? I asked what the NASA scientists said. I don't give a rat's ass what your apostle is supposed to have said. If you can't report facts, then just be honest and admit it.

      February 25, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • lol??

      "Tom, Tom, the Other One sayz,
      You do understand that the "Creation" has never been perfect, eh John?"....Don't know 'bout perfect, but gud is gud enuff, ya little antichrist. woof, woof, woof..........."Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

      February 25, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • lol??

      Next thing ya know the lyin' A&A's will be tellin' ya "nobody's perfect!" Prove that negative, goofball bigots

      February 25, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      lollypoop, are you really as stupid as you appear?

      February 25, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Science

      Ankles and As-s

      Have 2 ankles 1 as-s = human

      Peace

      February 25, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • John

      Tom, your DNA reply, if you claim to know how God did the DNA, and I guess you're claiming it is done wrong, that is like the claims made some time back about "junk" DNA, where they said this:

      - It's "junk" DNA, therefore we claim God didn't do it

      Then later, they said:

      - it's NOT "junk" DNA anymore, therefore we claim God didn't do it.

      Do you see how silly they are? I do. Look, Tom, believe me, for once in your life, believe something: God exists, I know it.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
    • clarity

      So John – how is it again that you know God exists? Do try not to embarrass yourself John by referencing

      Gullible's Travels Part 1:Christianity Rewords the Older Myth so Things Fit Better in Part Two
      or
      Gullible's Travels, Part 2:Now Let's Really Jazz Up Some Old Stories

      with your answers, John.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:50 am |
    • John

      Clar, tell me what YOU think the odds are for an apostle 2000 years ago to have said: "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair", and then NASA only a few months ago proves that the sun has what looks like dark hair all over it, at least in the Hi-C imaging view it does. Remember, 2000 years ago, they were looking at the sun with their eyes, and not long or they'd go blind, so how'd the apostle know it?

      When I do the odds calculation, I get: 1/infinity for the odds he'd get it right, meaning he couldn't guess it, and he said God showed it to him so... ya, God exists, QED.

      That and God said he exists in more ways than that, but you don't believe anyone in the bible or anywhere else that believes him.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • Science

      In your dreams only John

      Peace

      February 26, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • .

      John = Chad

      February 26, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Jay

      ""the sun became black as sackcloth of hair""

      That was not the writers original intent when they wrote and you are twisting the scripture to justify your position. The darkening of the sun: "And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair." Sackcloth was a coarse black cloth, commonly, though not always, made of hair. It was used for sacks, for strainers, and for mourning garments; and as thus worn it was not an improper emblem of sadness and distress. The idea here is, that the sun put on a dark, dingy, dol eful appearance, as if it were in mourning. The general image, then, in this emblem, is that of calamity – as if the very sun should put on the robes of mourning. We are by no means to suppose that this was literally to occur, but that some great calamity would happen, of which this would be an appropriate embl em.

      February 26, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • John

      Jay, the sun does not have emotions.

      The text is obvious... God knew what they'd see 2000 years ago, and knew it to the day.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, Jesus Christ on a Triscuit,

      February 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm |
    • Jay

      John, that was a direct quote from a well known bible study website, you don't understand the bible at all. You are twisting the scriptures to fit it to your ego, you are the anti–Christ.

      February 27, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • Billy

      Actually I thought I saw Jesus Christ on a triscuit, but it was actually the face of Charles Manson.

      February 27, 2013 at 8:48 am |
  11. slurp

    " Why is that only the Christian is controversial and polarizing? ... None of these are controversial except the Christian? I don't get it."

    You don't get it because no one ever said that. Is there something in this story that says "only the Christians are controversial?" You do realize we live in a predominantly Christian country. It would hardly be a wise use of time for people here to spend much time criticizing religions like Islam and Mormonism which each make up less than 1% of the population. Perhaps you'd like us all to go into long critiques of the Australian aboriginal Dreamtime beliefs? It sounds to me like you’ve got a bit of a persecution complex going there.

    no one said christianity sucks
    christianity sucks, everybody knows it
    what's wrong with you?
    no wonder christianity sucks
    shut up
    you're the reason christianity sucks
    nobody said christianity sucks

    February 25, 2013 at 6:44 am |
    • Science

      The Ultimate Chimp Challenge: Chimps Do Challenging Puzzles for the Fun of It

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130213173131.htm

      Peace

      Creationism failed

      February 25, 2013 at 7:02 am |
    • slurp

      what it is, yo bro

      February 25, 2013 at 7:10 am |
    • slurp

      what it is
      yo

      February 25, 2013 at 7:12 am |
    • John

      S, you continue to miss the point. God made similar things, how ever he wanted to, when ever he wanted to. Your claim is that because he does this, it voids him having done it... but it doesn't. That is what you'll have to understand, that God can do whatever he wants, and science does not stop him from doing that, or slow him down.

      February 25, 2013 at 7:12 am |
    • slurp

      yo,
      what it is

      February 25, 2013 at 7:14 am |
    • slurp

      it is what it is

      February 25, 2013 at 7:17 am |
    • sam stone

      "Your claim is that because he does this, it voids him having done it"

      Your claim is that because there is a possibility of a creator, there is a certainty that YOUR creator story is the correct one.

      February 25, 2013 at 7:17 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Science, I think only a small subset of young earth style creationists would believe other animals can't be intelligent. Plenty of Christians even believe in intelligent life on other planets.

      February 25, 2013 at 7:19 am |
    • slurp

      the man in the red tights
      he da man, yo
      don't go messin wit my yo, yo
      yo?

      February 25, 2013 at 7:19 am |
    • clemmie

      yo, lol?. it is, yo

      ain't no yo, yo?

      dig

      sxince be da man, yo

      2 plus 2 equals god sucks, u no? yo!

      lol

      er, homes, bro

      dig it

      christian suck, amen?
      yo lol

      February 25, 2013 at 7:23 am |
    • clemmie

      i am what yal wish

      dig?

      yo

      February 25, 2013 at 7:24 am |
    • Science

      Apps for Apes: Smithsonian Orangutans using iPads for Enrichment

      Peace
      John

      February 25, 2013 at 7:25 am |
    • dayoyo

      satan is da man

      drink blood

      ain't no yo

      February 25, 2013 at 7:26 am |
    • Science

      Fact = Evolution = Truth

      February 25, 2013 at 7:46 am |
    • John

      Science = heads that blaspheme God, just because and with no evidence nothing did anything = fact

      Science = rose up out of Mediteranian Sea = history

      Science = mixed heads too saying to deny God credit for what he did = Blasphemy

      Science = believe the "nothing" god = it won't save you

      Science = head with a problem coming up = oh my

      February 25, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Are you foaming at the mouth again, John? It certainly appears so. You can't even type a single coherent thought.

      February 25, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • Saraswati

      John, you seem confused about how an "=" sign is used. You might want to refresh on that.

      February 25, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • John

      The equals signs were like two mirrors amplifying the thoughts bouncing back and forth before they exited the post.

      February 25, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      So, now you're arguing that God could create a universe that doesn't suggest that he even exists? That's quite an imagination you've got there, buddy!

      February 25, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • John

      Franklin, how do you propose to see a being that can create a universe and still be all powerful, with no restriction in time, that knows your history from birth to death, all thoughts, all words spoken, and with unheard of patience and love for those that care about him?

      I know God can do those things.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      John, you "know" these things as in you have a justified true belief in them?

      February 25, 2013 at 10:31 am |
    • John

      I know God can do the things he said. If you can't believe him first, and then see that in what he's said, you will never know he is God. What the prophets described in the bible, does not shock me at all. It shocks you because you deny he could do what he did, so you never find the truth.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Is it really so, John, that you can know something is so without being able to describe or demonstrate how you know it? How you came to know that God is real, was it by a means that would convince you that God is not real if in fact God is not real?

      February 25, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • John

      Tom, in order to know God is there, you have to first believe him, or you won't find him. It is much like a kid that rejects math, or reading, saying they don't matter because know one he knows uses them or sees them as having any value. It is like a self propagating deficientcy, it spreads and collects all that fall into it. Your rejection of God does that to you, you surround yourself with people that tell you what you wanted, ot not find God, so that's what you got. If you had believed first, seriously, and proved God right, you'd end up knowing he's there... and nothing in the bible would shock you.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
    • End Religion

      more unoriginal "you have to believe to believe" claptrap from John... boring and false.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:38 pm |
    • Harlen

      In a way I see John's point. I know some things that are true that most do not know. I must admit the Bible does not surprise me anymore either. Ever since I was young I loved to watch the Flying Nun. I started dreaming about her but soon realized that this was not the character from TV, but a real flying nun in heaven – and she started speaking to me in my dreams and then sometimes when I would be sitting very still. I started slowly believing in her and through time discovered she has some amazing powers. She and God right there together. The thing that I've discovered through prayer and moments of deep meditation where I hear from her, she actually is God's superior. She doesn't take BS from Him. Honestly – she rules the roost there so I am very kind in my prayers to both of them. No matter what others will say – I know she is real and holds my salvation in Her hands. You do have to believe first and then you'll discover the wonders of Her Truth. Bless.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:59 pm |
    • End Religion

      Harlen, you're a bit late with a flying nun bit. Watch the Oscars last night, did ya?

      February 26, 2013 at 12:30 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      How incredibly easy is it to just say that God is so powerful that he can remain hidden when he wants to, as you did in your post to me? Puts God right up there with Russell's Teapot, the Incredible Invisible Pink Unicorn and basically every comic book character. Hardly a convincing argument.

      You say that you know that God can do those things, but isn't it more the case that you can believe in a God who, by definition, cannot be disproven? Makes the entire concept of "Faith in God" rather meaningless when you define him as something that doesn't require any faith, doesn't it?

      February 26, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • John

      Franklin, there are different stages of understanding God:

      - don't know anything
      - believe God
      - know God is there

      Jesus and other prophets knew God is there, but the people they talked with, or others reading the accounts, had to have faith first, before God would make himself known to them... then they knew God is there too... IF he made himself known to them. Jesus said the pure in heart would see God... so if someone didn't really care about him, or want God to be happy, they'd just have to have faith and believe Jesus died for their sins, and that would be sufficient. God's words though do actually prove he is there, to the point someone can know he is there. There is no issue with that, but everyone still needs to believe Jesus died for others sins... even if they KNOW God is there.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • clarity

      Franklin is right on the mark, John. You simply continue to claim things that you claim to know but that you have yet been able to provide evidence for. That's hardly knowledge, John. As Franklin said, it's belief. You just need to get your terms straight, John.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • John

      Clar, there are things that can only be believed, such as Jesus dying on a cross, and only eye witness accounts describing the events. There are also statements from the same apostle that saw Jesus die, that then said the "sun became black as sackcloth of hair" as a future event, that came true only months ago... that is a provable event relative to the verse describing it... you can prove it to yourself any day of the week, as many times as you like each day until you realize it's dumb to be so skeptical of God knowing it given he's made all the stars in the universe.... ya, he'd know what they behave like, and some apostle 2000 years ago (excuse my being flippant please), wouldn't have known anything about what the sun would look like, other than it's too bright to stare at.

      As for the Holy Spirit, ya, God exists, absolutely, no doubt what so ever... I will not forget God, thank you.

      February 26, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
  12. John

    Agnostics and atheists, best advice ever:

    - try your best to believe God, first
    - get a bible
    - start reading the New Testament
    - now read the Old Testament

    If those don't work for you due to some mental blocks and such, go to church and try your best. Ask God for help and thank him for sending Jesus to die for your sins.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:33 am |
    • End Religion

      You're just spouting preposterous fiction. How anyone sees a human sacrifice as honourable or something to be glorified is incomprehensibly twisted. You're dancing in glee over human sacrifice. That you can't see your own ignorant sickness, and further find it "morally positive," is a marvel.

      February 25, 2013 at 5:57 am |
    • John

      ER ad Sam, it is a clear plan of action if you want to know the most incredible being in the universe, that also made everything.

      February 25, 2013 at 6:45 am |
    • slurp

      End Religion
      You're just spouting preposterous fiction. How anyone sees a human sacrifice as honourable or something to be glorified is incomprehensibly twisted. You're dancing in glee over human sacrifice. That you can't see your own ignorant sickness, and further find it "morally positive," is a marvel.

      sacrificed my mother, three brothers and my dog. it was wonferful, wonerful.

      February 25, 2013 at 6:48 am |
    • slurp

      "sam stone
      johnnie boy: pull your crucifix out of your rectum. it is severely inhibiting your cognitive function"

      quit your whining

      February 25, 2013 at 6:52 am |
    • sam stone

      So much conjecture, Johnnie....where to start?

      February 25, 2013 at 7:09 am |
    • sam stone

      it ain't whining, slurp. it's just responding to johnnie boy's servile sycophantry

      February 25, 2013 at 7:12 am |
    • Saraswati

      You said it yourself here: you have to believe in your god before reading the bible makes any sense. I sounds more like a method for identifying the gullible and unimaginative ... unimaginative because only someone who didn't understand there are millions of possible beliefs could think it made sense to pick one at random to believe prior to evidence.

      February 25, 2013 at 7:15 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why would I "try to believe" something that is absolutely absurd?

      February 25, 2013 at 8:20 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy. George Orwell, 1984

      Communism, or fundamentalist Christianity? It's difficult to determine which Orwell drew upon more as inspiration for for this book.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • myweightinwords

      John,

      I did believe in God. I read the new testament, memorized parts of it. I read the Old Testament (and as writer and storyteller, it was the more appealing of the two). Went to church.

      The more I read, the more I realized it wasn't what I was taught it was, that the god depicted in those stories was a monster, that the entire belief that I had based my life on was wrong.

      Sorry, your "plan" backfired in my case. And in many others as well. I think it's a problem with the source material.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • John

      MWIW, I don't know why you rejected God, but I can guess. I suspect that you tried to pack the entirety of God into a person (which is impossible), and then expected a person's actions. This is vaugely similar to if you had instead tried to take all the world's oceans and put them on your face as a tear... and thought it would be the same as all those oceans... or more accurately, all the matter and energy in the universe, and put it on your face like a smudge to wipe off. It's not even close to something similar. God has done wonderful things for people, and he doesn't even get a common thank you, or even a recognition that he did what he said, instead, it's all handed to "nothing", and his name is denied in the discussion of what he made.

      That is wrong in unimaginable ways... I can't even comprehend how wrong that is... and people write it off as something to ignore if someone tells you he's there, and ignore what he said when it's pointed out he's right and has been for as long as he's proven himself to any prophets he wants to talk with or show himself to.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • myweightinwords

      John,

      MWIW, I don't know why you rejected God, but I can guess.

      What is it that you are basing this guess on?

      I suspect that you tried to pack the entirety of God into a person (which is impossible), and then expected a person's actions.

      Not even close.

      This is vaugely similar to if you had instead tried to take all the world's oceans and put them on your face as a tear... and thought it would be the same as all those oceans... or more accurately, all the matter and energy in the universe, and put it on your face like a smudge to wipe off.

      What? Did that make any kind of sense in your head?

      It's not even close to something similar.

      To what? Your strange metaphor?

      God has done wonderful things for people, and he doesn't even get a common thank you, or even a recognition that he did what he said, instead, it's all handed to "nothing", and his name is denied in the discussion of what he made.

      In my experience, most people attribute "wonderful things" to their god, but in reality, if you examine the situation closely, you'll discover that having faith in their god enabled them to do wonderful things for themselves. Not really the same thing, but most can't see the difference.

      That is wrong in unimaginable ways... I can't even comprehend how wrong that is... and people write it off as something to ignore if someone tells you he's there, and ignore what he said when it's pointed out he's right and has been for as long as he's proven himself to any prophets he wants to talk with or show himself to.

      The bible is not proof that any god exists, only that people have believed in a god for many thousands of years, something we don't actually need the bible to know. We have plenty of other evidence of that, older evidence even. What the bible does prove is that the tribal god of the ancient Hebrew people was much like the ancient Hebrew people and other tribes of the area.

      February 25, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • clarity

      And I'm throwing out these triangles and getting my Saran wrap back. Triangles don't seem to lock anything in.

      February 25, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • John

      MWIW, the bible is proof that God exists. When you called God a "monster", that is where you gave away that you expected God to be like what, an outlet that supplies power to everything? Like he shouldn't be intelligent and creative, and then be angry if people take credit for what he did and give it to nothing, or lie about him? This happens all the time, throughout history, it hasn't stopped even today. People claim they're more intelligent now, but they're doing the same things done thousands of years ago, with the same end results... loss of access to the most incredible being in existence. What a sad day that will be.

      February 26, 2013 at 4:38 am |
    • End Religion

      The bible is proof of nothing. If you believe in god and hell then there is no question god sends people to hell if they don't play his game properly. He supposedly set the game in motion and forces one to choose.

      Just like Jigsaw from the movie Saw, god supposedly puts a game in motion, forcing people to choose his way or torture. While the poor cattle in the movie indeed get to "exercise free will" they've still been bound into a game against their choice, then forced to play by its rules.

      And you call this god a loving god... lol.. He's a horror movie monster.

      February 26, 2013 at 5:23 am |
    • John

      ER, the things God asked for are in general optimum for prosperity, family growth, and finding God. I don't see that as God being a monster, but more as him wanting the best for his creation.

      February 26, 2013 at 6:53 am |
    • myweightinwords

      John, you really are good at jumping to conclusions and putting words in other people's mouths...um, fingers.

      MWIW, the bible is proof that God exists.

      No, the bible is proof that an ancient people believed that a god existed and gave them rules and favored them over all the rest.

      When you called God a "monster", that is where you gave away that you expected God to be like what, an outlet that supplies power to everything?

      How about behaving like an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being instead of a petty tribal warlord? That might be a start.

      Like he shouldn't be intelligent and creative, and then be angry if people take credit for what he did and give it to nothing, or lie about him?

      Oh, I would expect a god to be intelligent and creative. However, any creator who is angered because his imperfect creation is imperfect when he made them imperfectly? Not someone I care to call god.

      For that matter, any omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being who gets angry over what he already knows is going to happen...is not intelligent enough to actually be considered a god.

      This happens all the time, throughout history, it hasn't stopped even today. People claim they're more intelligent now, but they're doing the same things done thousands of years ago, with the same end results... loss of access to the most incredible being in existence. What a sad day that will be.

      We've come a long way in a thousand years. We have a long way yet to go. The day will come when public policy is no longer influenced by the religious beliefs of any group of people, where people aren't ostracized and bullied for believing different than the majority, when the least among us is afforded the same respect as everyone else.

      Sadly, today is not that day.But every step we take closer to true equality we get a little nearer that mark.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:34 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      "the bible is proof that God exists."
      Because books never existed before the Bible? Because no other ancient people ever told stories involving their gods, and bothered to write them down? That the concept of "fiction" didn't exist back then? Seriously, what possible reasoning would you have in saying that?

      February 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
  13. EX catholic

    Atheists and Idolaters are so much alike, they're like two monkeys in a canoe stuck in a swamp trying to figure out how to get out before it sinks. If the canoe sinks they'll drown, because these 2 monkes don't swim.

    February 24, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • End Religion

      You now need to update any and all monkey jokes to rat jokes...

      Morganucodon "Morgie" is an early mammalian genus that lived during the Late Triassic. It is our ancestor, a survivor of the meteor strike which decimated the dinosaurs and allowed us to take over the planet. Thanks, Morgie!
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morganucodon
      http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/New_Hall_on_the_Mall.html

      February 24, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • EX catholic

      It is Not a joke it is a comparison by way of illustration, a parable, a simile.

      February 24, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
    • EX catholic

      End Religion,

      You proved me right yet again!

      February 24, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
    • Salero21

      Actually EX, since many atheists believe in evolution et al. there is not much difference in their behavior. Except that apes/monkeys have more social graces than most atheists.

      Say hi to our friends on my behalf, hope to see you soon again.

      February 24, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
    • End Religion

      Why show so much ingratitude to your predecessors? Shouldn't you respect elders?

      February 24, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • ..

      Those that don't learn when corrected repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again. EX is a prime example of repeating the same lies repeatedly. It is a pity his mama gave birth to a child born without any sense.

      February 24, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • Aesop

      Ex catholic,

      You still sound like a Catholic:

      “An Ass put on a Lion's skin and went
      About the forest with much merriment,
      Scaring the foolish beasts by brooks and rocks,
      Till at last he tried to scare the Fox.
      But Reynard, hearing from beneath the mane
      That Raucous voice so petulant and vain,
      Remarked. O' Ass, I too would run away,
      But that I know your old familiar bray'.
      That's just the way with asses, just the way.”

      February 24, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • Saraswati

      swimming monkeys:

      http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=uRY7pUj8FI0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuRY7pUj8FI0

      February 25, 2013 at 6:45 am |
    • Franklin

      I wish that humans were more like Bonobos. They have almost a complete absence of aggression, all without the supposed calming effects of religion.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      franklin
      Bonobos are our closest genetic cousins, but you do know they spend an extreme amount of time engaged in $exual activity? We'd never get anything accomplished if we were more like them.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:31 am |
    • Franklin

      Richard Cranium

      Hey, "Make Love, Not War", Man! :-)

      February 26, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
  14. clarity

    Scandal heating up over there in the UK. Is it any surprise?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/23/cardinal-keith-o-brien-accused-inappropriate

    February 24, 2013 at 11:22 am |
  15. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    What is it you think I'm missing, Johnny? I have a full, happy life, a wonderful husband, great family, a wide circle of friends, a successful career, a home. I go to concerts, to museums, to restaurants. I love travel, reading, the arts...

    I enjoy my life now more than I did when I went to church on a weekly basis.

    February 24, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Tom, Tom
      Side bar
      Are you the son of the famous piper Peter Piper, as I have a question:

      How could Peter Piper have picked a peck of pickled peppers, if you can't pickle a pepper until after the pepper has been picked?

      Second...what did you do with the pig? it just says away you ran, but inquiring minds are want to knkow.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Peter was the idiot son of my third cousin, twice removed. He disgraced the family, so the less said about HIM, the better.

      As for the pig, I was simply rescuing it from its intended end. He is now living under the witness protection program.

      Thanks for asking!

      February 24, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • lol??

      You have to express yer bully side and do it by hangin' out on a faith blog. Your "other life" is really just an act. The usual, no change for the hopey changey crowd, errrr mob.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • clarity

      @lol?? it's not a "faith" blog idiot. Tom actually spends little time here compared to many I see. As I am retired, I can spend all day on here if I so choose. I consider it a service to the community.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • lol??

      Why would you want to get tired all over again?? Didn't work hard enuff the first go around??

      February 24, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • clarity

      I did work hard. but, you know life is a job.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • lol??

      Life is my Sabbath. PAU

      February 24, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      lolly-poo, pot, may I introduce kettle?

      If anyone here spends an inordinate amount of time on this blog, bozo, it's you, and if anyone is a bully, you certainly qualify as a great imitator.

      February 24, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What idiot said that "gays are gay because they can't tell the truth"? Oh, yeah, that was lollypoop.

      What a moron.

      February 24, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
  16. Pravda

    It is sad that Christians are afraid to stand up for what they believe in. The gay lifestyle is wrong just as much as a man lusting after another man's wife, or a pastor stealing from the church. All sin...

    Sadly the minority is trying to drowned out the Christian voice and Tebow gave in to them...

    February 24, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • End Religion

      Might want to find another racist, bigoted god to excuse your intolerant ways. Yours is on the way out.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • Chad

      "I contend we are both bigots, I just believe that one fewer societal behavior is proper than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible societal behaviors as being legitimate , you will understand why I dismiss your pet one (same sex marriage). " – Rephen Stoberts

      February 24, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • lol??

      God can love the world without gettin' dirty. The bride can't so she's told not to love da wurld.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • nope

      ". The gay lifestyle is wrong "

      There are religions that do allow gay marriage.

      In July 2012, the General Convention of the Episcopal Church approved a liturgy for blessing same-sex relationships.

      Evangelical Lutheran Church in 2009 voted to allow congregations that choose to do so to recognize and bless same-sex unions

      Judaism – The Reform and Reconstructionist Jewish movements have supported gay and lesbian rights, including same-sex marriage, since the mid-1990s. In June 2012, the Conservative Jewish movement approved a ceremony to allow same-sex couples to marry

      Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations in 1996, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations passed a resolution in support of same-sex marriage.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Boy Chad – that was a real fail. Look at what you wrote – obviously you misquoted, as it makes no grammatical sense. Once you get the grammar fixed up, however, you run smack dab into a huge equivalency fallacy. Nice try though – trying to ride the coattails of the famous atheist quote. But it's not applicable in the least.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • lol??

      gay is always first in their deathstyle.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • clarity

      They should be sad, and ashamed. Their cup of hypocrisy runneth over.

      Between LA & NY & the Vatican this week, you'd have to be living in a cave to not notice it.

      And now we learn of this bozo in the UK – being accused by three priests and one former priest no less:

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/23/cardinal-keith-o-brien-accused-inappropriate

      February 24, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • clarity

      Also, nope's list I don't think included the United Church of Christ, which I think was the first major denomination to begin performing gay marriage.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • lol??

      who's they clarity??

      February 24, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • clarity

      Those like Pravda that feel sad for Christians & Christians alike.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • .

      Pravda is a liar, too funny! what a hypocrite. LOL! See below.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:36 am |
    • Science

      Hey Chad it is all going to end
      Article:
      Why the Higgs Boson May Seal Fate of the Universe
      Clara Moskowitz, LiveScience Senior Writer

      Date: 21 February 2013 Time: 04:03 PM ET

      http://www.livescience.com/27329-higgs-boson-universe-apocalypse.html

      February 24, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • End Religion

      Chad, not posting as any of your female sock puppets today?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • lol??

      The A&A's are tryin' to rev people up to kill the bride so they can steal her stuff, Remember Germany and their savin' of the economy?? The A&A's want the party to continue, gud little kweer keynesians that they are. Their version of luvin' da neighbors.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • clarity

      @lol?? You sure squawk a lot without ever giving evidence for your sicko ideas. Miss those days with the KKK rallies do ya?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • lol??

      The A&A's have already taught their daughters to kill their own flesh and blood in the womb. A few little trumped up charges against the bride and THAT BLOOD will flow. You need evidence for 1/3 killer mommies?? You already have it.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Aww, lol's all worked up over abortion. Does it bother you that children are murdered every day, lol? Or are you only concerned about fetuses?

      February 24, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • Science

      Oh where did Chad go ???

      February 24, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • clarity

      The problem is we actually don't know how many of the 1/3 "killer mommies" actually heard from their God of Israel who actually may have told them to terminate their pregnancies. It may have been His way of being efficient about future sinners – just like he did with the flood.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • lol??

      Gay's are gay because of their inability to tell the truth. They've been "given up". Any wonder their cause is the A&A's cause in the name of luv??...."2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."......standard Christian doctrine.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • clarity

      You're a sick puppy, lol?? I shouldn't need to tell you many Xtians would also find your idiotic notions idiotic. And once again – outside of your mythological bigotry, you provide no evidence of these deluded notions.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • lol??

      When God kills, he could bring them back to life in a second. YOU shouldn't be quick to shed blood.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • clarity

      lol?? perfect fits the bill for the subject below "40,000 denominations of insanity"

      February 24, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Mass Debater

      "Gay's are gay because of their inability to tell the truth."

      Um, no, you inbred moron, they are born that way. And they eventually come out of the closet because they get tired of lying.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • clarity

      lol?? perfectly fits the bill for the subject below "40,000 denominations of insanity"

      February 24, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • lol??

      You just gave an argument for God knowing a person in the womb. Thanky you. Take Esau for an example.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • lol??

      Clarity, if God "let you" live to be 950 years old, my money is you'd end up kweer. That would corrupt future generations.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • *

      Pravda,
      " the minority is trying to drowned out the Christian voice"

      "drowned out"?

      Are you under 12 years old - or just very uneducated?

      February 24, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • Science

      Chad you playing games ?

      Found you somewhere else nice try.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • clarity

      lol??: "Clarity, if God "let you" live to be 950 years old, my money is you'd end up kweer. That would corrupt future generations."

      wow. that lunacy stands on its own – no further comment necessary; lol.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • sam stone

      pravda: perhaps tebow is standing up for what he believes in, and it is not the slop that jeffers is pushing.

      February 24, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Larry

      Chad
      I have got to admit, that comment of yours was so far off being a cognizant argument that my jaw literally dropped. Oy, get back on your meds, man!!

      February 25, 2013 at 12:43 am |
  17. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill would not is not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well and don't want to violate their beliefs.

    Recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    On sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    =================================================
    Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?

    Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):

    If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.

    Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    February 24, 2013 at 9:25 am |
    • John

      The atheists listed also thought men couldn't fly.

      They were wrong about that too. God exists.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • End Religion

      John, are you running a fever again?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • .

      "The atheists listed also thought men couldn't fly."

      They can and your God doesn't exist.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • John

      They're dead, they can't come back and tell you they were wrong.

      I can tell you you're wrong though... so I do. God exists.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • JWT

      You may have a god john but your god does not apply to other people unless they so choose.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • nope

      " God exists."

      you have no proof this is true, you are a liar.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • clarity

      John seems desperate as he doesn't really address any specific point of the post.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      What else would you expect from a guy who's name is synonymous with a toilet.

      BTW... men cannot fly. Men can create devices and machines that can fly and carry men, but the device or machine is the one doing the flying...bad analogy.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • John

      Who in all history, any text, who has ever said: "the sun became as black sackcloth of hair"? That's right, the bible says it, and it recently came true... meaning time is tick away. God exists, his words prove he is God.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • End Religion

      John the sun has never been black. Doesn't 2000+ years of failed End Times prophecy give you a moment's pause that you may just be crazy?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Who in all history said it? Who cares? What is it with you and the hair/triangle/sun crap? What do you dream this nonsense proves? The sun didn't "become black" and nuts like you have predicted the end for 2000 years.

      Is this blog the center of your entire existence, John? It surely seems to be. Why is it you're here instead of in church on a Sunday?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • clarity

      Oh, LOL, Tom -I forgot is the the triangle dude. If so, I have a beef with him. I tried some triangles and they do not lock things in as good as Saran wrap.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "His word proves he is god." Nonsense. That's just circular reasoning. Jim Jones said he was god. Didn't make it true, but nuts believed him.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yeah, clarity, he's the one. He is stuck on stupid.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • John

      God knows I'm tying this, so I'll just point out here and now... I said this would happen... they don't listen at all. You can point right to where the verse came true, say it came true, and they both don't understand it, and won't admit it... it's nonsense to them... and yes, you knew it, and you knew I'd end this reply right... about.... now.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • Science

      John could not make it out of the soup maybe .

      February 24, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • sam stone

      john: jesus is waiting for you. do you have a sidearm, or a tall building where you live?

      February 24, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Larry

      John
      "the sun became as black sackcloth of hair"
      When did this happen?

      February 25, 2013 at 12:46 am |
    • John

      Larry, NASA sent up a telescope called "Hi-C" last summer, it took high resolution imaging of the sun's surface at a single wavelength of light, higher than we can see, about 2X higher. They saw much higher temperatures in the magnetic loops, and they were braided, they hadn't seen either before. The imaging looks as the apostle said, like black sackcloth of hair:

      http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/gallery/hic-cover1.html

      They used to make sacks out of goat skin, with hair... and probably still do. The temperatures seen in the braided filaments arein the millions of degrees... so is fusion... and with applied voltages, easier still. The one verse continues with the moon becoming as blood, which could either be a timing marker, or that it's saying the moon is similar to something causing blood shed. For example, the asteriod impact recently, 1000 or more people being injured.

      In any case, I expect God was right, in what he showed the apostle... so rack up another one for the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being right... and atheists grabbing their keyboards to deny it.

      February 25, 2013 at 4:59 am |
    • End Religion

      Except the sun wasn't black, and then John goes on to make up other absurdities. What if 999 people got injured?

      February 25, 2013 at 5:11 am |
    • John

      ER, like most atheists and agnostic, you can deny anything about God that you don't want to know. At some point though, God will judge you. You are not there yet, but will be eventually. You have this time,now, to figure it out and get yourself right with God. If you don't do that, you only have yourself to blame. If God had wanted someone better to tell you, they'd be typing the reply to you, instead of me. And I'm 100% certain, someone better has already told you... but you didn't listen then either... or listen to anything said thousands of years ago. Maybe someday, right?

      February 25, 2013 at 5:46 am |
    • End Religion

      John, still waiting on that empirical evidence that god will be judging me. Where is it? Why have we asked you for it over and over only for you to fail to provide it? Could it be that god is imaginary and you have childish notions this invisible creature runs our universe because you are afraid of our cold universe?

      February 25, 2013 at 6:00 am |
    • Saraswati

      john,

      "If God had wanted someone better to tell you, they'd be typing the reply to you, instead of me. "

      The most morally "good" and intellectually sound person ever to lecture me on religion was a Buddhist. Was this arranged by God?

      February 25, 2013 at 6:08 am |
    • John

      Sara, you asked if it was arranged by God, when Buddists do not believe any god.

      It is clear that you did not listen to anything the Buddist said, nor what God said.

      February 25, 2013 at 6:41 am |
    • Saraswati

      @John, I captialized "God" to refer to your own rather unimaginitely named god. Many Buddhists do, by the way, believe in gods, while others are atheistic. Thie Buddhist referenced was not theistic, but I referred to whether your god would arrange the best religious argument I had heard to be from this [non theistic] Buddhist.

      February 25, 2013 at 6:52 am |
    • John

      Sara, the religious advice a theif could ever hear, would be that there is a god that wants him/her to steal everything. Likewise, science promotes gods that they claim made everything that God made, taking all his credit for what he did, and handing it to nothing. That is wrong... but they claim it's right.

      February 25, 2013 at 7:02 am |
    • Saraswati

      @John,

      "Sara, the religious advice a theif could ever hear, would be that there is a god that wants him/her to steal everything."

      Even a thief if faced with overwhelming evidence (a god in front of their own eyes with hundreds of other witnesses) would belief in what they saw. It is the Christian who cannot see that simple fact because contradicts his beliefs that is choosing stories to support his own best interests.

      February 25, 2013 at 7:08 am |
    • Brother Maynard

      John
      http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/gallery/hic-cover1.html

      Uh .. everyone ... seriously check out this pic ... it IS pretty cool ... but nowhere can you see that '... they were braided' as john contains

      February 25, 2013 at 8:35 am |
    • Pete

      "The one verse continues with the moon becoming as blood, which could either be a timing marker, or that it's saying the moon is similar to something causing blood shed"

      LMAO! no, it's called a lunar ellipse and yeah people die all the time from violence throughout all of our history but it has nothing to do with a god, it's just coincidence. The odds of it happening since the world death rate is approximately 150,000 per day and that has nothing to do with the moon turning red either. LMAO!

      February 25, 2013 at 8:48 am |
    • Smithsonian

      "or listen to anything said thousands of years ago. Maybe someday, right?"

      The Bible is primarily a book of religion, a guide to faith. it was not a book of history, poetry, economics, or science. It contains all sorts of literary genre, which are used to teach about the relationship between God and mankind. Even biblical history is edited history: events were chosen to illustrate the central theme of the Bible. The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel).

      It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document.

      February 25, 2013 at 8:52 am |
    • John

      BM, it never ceases to amaze me, that I have to explain science to people, while telling them God is right, and science won't take the time to simply admit, yes, God is right.

      "The data from Hi-C show evidence of magnetic field braiding and axial twist in loops along their length, reconnection and consequent ..."

      Tell me where that came from (NASA).

      February 25, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So, nothing about "apostles" or "angels" or "god" or "triangles" or "hair" or "black" or "sackcloth" or "end of days" or any other of the nonsense you keep trying to inject. Thanks for admitting it.

      You're full of crap.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • Elaine

      John, your ability to "explain science" to anyone, and for that matter, your ability to comprehend science yourself, are clearly sorely lacking.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • John

      Elaine, if you don't like NASA's write up about their imaging of the hair on the sun, there's nothing I can do about that. But it is obvious that God knew it 2000 years ago, that he showed the apostle, and the apostle knew Jesus died for others sins.... so that's a fairly good indicator if you want confirmation of who Jesus is/was when he showed up to die for sins. Each day that passes, is another day that people could have believed God and told others he's there. And when he's right, in a big way, so they could rapidly understand, they just as rapidly ignore and deny God was right.

      February 25, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • Superst!tion

      I once saw the face of Roger Staubach in a pool of Velveeta I had just melted in the microwave.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
    • End Religion

      John's like an old album skipping on that one lyric about a hairy sun.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • John

      ER, each day that passes, is one more day gone. You are given so many days to work with, if you throw them away, and slow others from figuring it out, you'll have to answer to God for both your own sloth, and slothing others.

      February 26, 2013 at 4:14 am |
    • End Religion

      Thanks, John. It's always nice to get an intelligent, coherent response. Now that you've made me aware that sloth is a verb, I will add that to my vocabulary. I will be careful not to sloth others.

      February 26, 2013 at 4:32 am |
    • OTOH

      ER, A new commandment?

      Thou shalt not slothily sloth thy slothiness even upon the slothiest of slothers.

      February 26, 2013 at 4:42 am |
    • John

      Slothing yourself and others is probably the worst you could do. Jesus said it's like the master handing out coins prior to leaving on a journey, and he's going to come back expecting you to have multiplied the coins, the money, grow it. When he comes back, the master asks and some have more coins than they started with, they invested the moeny and grew it. But one of them didn't, that person was afraid to work the money into something more, buried it, and left it to sit... it's all spiritual stuff Jesus was talking about, that God expects you to take what you're given, and grow it, bring him more people that care about him and understand him, what he wants. If you're slothing yourself and others... where's the benefit for God? You have a God given life here, that can benefit you, God, and others... what will you tell him about how you spent your time here?

      February 26, 2013 at 8:47 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Slothing"? You are so stupid it's not even fun to ridicule you.

      February 26, 2013 at 8:50 am |
    • John

      The point has been made... slothing yourselves and others... when what you and others needed is God.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      There is no such word as "slothing," John, and when you exhibit this level of ignorance, you further undermine your credibility as a person who has a clue what you're talking about. I don't need the help of some dope who can't manage to write a coherent sentence and is obsessed with end of days prophecies to the point that he becomes a joke.

      Get a dictionary, get an education, and get your head out of your ass.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:42 am |
    • Damocles

      IF there is an enti-ty that created the universe and IF it really gives a flying hoot what we do and IF it seeks an audience with me after I die, then I will say 'hey, sup.' After introductions are made and the beer is brought in and the dancing girls with hearts of gold start the entertainment, I imagine we will talk about all sorts of things. IF we get around to discussing how I lived my life, then I will say 'hey, I did the best I could, I loved my family and friends, helped out as much as possible, donated time and money to worthy causes and generally lived a fairly interesting life. I had my faults, most notably being unable to tolerate certain people's stupidity on a certain news website.' The enti-ty will laugh and say 'John.' I will nod in agreement and we will share a knowing look. After I have had my fill of the dancing girls, I hope that this enti-ty will take me on a tour of the universe so I can witness the birth of a star and the collapse of one into a blackhole.

      Why you morons want to make out a deity as a murderous, peeping tom, out-to-get-everyone jerk is beyond me. I like my make believe friend more than yours.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • John

      Damocles, you're slothing yourself and others in thinking/saying that without even bothering to figure out what God wants. You're propagating a lie, that being sloth, is OK... it isn't. God looks at it as growing fruit, like you're working in a field, and you're saying you don't need to do that, but that later, you'll just show up and "join the party 'cuz it's all fine". It's like showing up at a house where you told the owner you don't want to know them for what, 70 years here? And now all the sudden "I'm here let's party!".

      Slothing yourself and others... won't generate fruit, or make any points with God.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, you dumbfvck, it's "all of A sudden," not "all the sudden." What the hell do you think you're achieving when you can't even figure out how to present anything but this dreck? There is NO SUCH WORD as "slothing." "SLOTH" is a noun. It's not a verb. Nobody is being "slothful" simply because we don't subscribe to your ridiculous beliefs.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • Damocles

      For the feeble-minded, namely john: 2. laziness: a dislike of work or any kind of physical exertion

      Ummm, dimbulb, I know I need to work, I've been working since I was 14. While I don't skip down the road with a giddy expression on my face at the thought of working, I do what needs to be done. If your petty little deity does not or can not value me for what I am, it is useless. What you are basically saying, without knowing it I'm sure, is that your deity places no value on love, affection, trying the best you can and learning from your mistakes. You present a deity that values only blind worship, hatred, tyranny and ignorance.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • John

      Damocles, after 70 years living in the same town as the owner of a huge mansion down the road, you walk by and feel the urge to meet him. You walk up to the door, open it and start yelling that you're here, time to party and grab the owner and start shoving beer at him.

      Good luck.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Damocles

      You are missing the point, over and over and over annnnnnnddddd..... over again. I don't know how to make it any easier for you, I feel like I've dumbed it down to the point that a retarded head of cabbage could understand. Help me to help you, what are you hung up on?

      February 26, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Frank

      John's just arguing for the sake of arguing.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • John

      D, you need the plan, and to work the plan... without the instructions... barging in and yelling "it's time to party I'm here where's the owner time for him to meet the 'new owner'", is probably not going impress him... given you had 70 (?) years to meet him before and didn't want to.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Damocles

      You take a rather obscene amount of time to say absolutely nothing of value.

      I'll go slow..... veeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyy sllllllloooooooooowwwwww. Just for you. Bam! If your deity can not value my life of work, love, affection, trying, failing, trying again and helping others as much as I can, then what does it actually value? If all it wants is blind worship, setting people against other people because of its imperfect perfect message and justified murder on a global scale, then it is a tyrant, plain and simple. You are hung up on one facet of my post, the beer, I supsect because you have a desire for it and envy those that partake every now and again. Get past that.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • clarity

      Hello John. Now John, what do you have for proof of your God? What do you have for your proof that your Jesus character had any supernatural ability? What kind of evidence can you bring forward for us today John? (Noting that you I don't see anything yet from your posts & responses.) I think I gave you a homework assignment John to look into the notion of 'diabolical mimicry' used by several early Christian apologists. Have you done that yet, John?

      February 26, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • OTOH

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,

      I think that John is just being whimsical by using "slothing" as a verb. It fits in with his general mindset of fantasy.
      (you know, though, language morphs in some funny ways - how did "impact" ever get to be a verb?)

      I noticed his "all the sudden" a couple of days ago and it grated on my sensibilities; but it seems that more and more people are using it these days (including a couple of my college-graduate children – ack!) John, for all of his goofiness, writes fairly well, so I let it go. For fun and frustration Google the phrase and see some of the arguments !

      February 26, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • OTOH

      * I meant "impact/impacted/impacting" becoming a verb in strange ways, such as, oil "impacting" the economy, etc.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I am not about to let John's nonsense go. I don't care how many people say it, "impact" is not a verb and neither is "slothing".

      And "all the sudden" is not even worth noting as some sort of exception-it makes no sense whatsoever.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • OTOH

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,

      I hear ya'. As I said, it bugs me too; but lots of idioms don't make any sense.

      Maybe he's just "pulling your leg"...?
      -or- he's "gone bananas"...?
      -or- he should "f..k off"...?

      February 26, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • John

      Tom, it is what you and others are doing and promoting:

      sloth – defined as spiritual or emotional apathy, neglecting what God has spoken, and being physically and emotionally inactive.

      slothing – to act like Tom and others on this blog

      February 26, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • John

      Clar, the same apostle that was there with Jesus and said that he died for others sins, is the same one that described, "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair", and said God showed it to him. And if you don't believe NASA and their Hi-C imagining, or 2000 year old scriptures that have said it down through the centuries... then you certainly won't believe me telling you the Holy Spirit is as active as ever... God isn't slowed down... weakened... overloaded... pick what ever words you like... he's still God, still able to create a universe, or destroy it... or love us and offer forgiveness of sins through Jesus's sacrifice.

      February 26, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, if you are so fvcking stupid that you cannot even learn, then you have nothing to teach me.

      "Slothing" is not a word. Never was. One can be slothful, one cannot "sloth."

      Anyone who's so stupid as to be incapable of figuring that out doesn't have a clue about religion, god, or anything else.

      February 26, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • John

      Tom, I'm certainly not the best person to tell you God is there, it's really up to you to figure it out, or God help you some other way to find him.

      Slothing, I'm using that as "to impart or disperse" such, as in:

      slothing – to impart or disperse spiritual or emotional apathy, neglecting what God has spoken, and being physically and emotionally inactive.

      Sure it's a made up word... so is every other word out there.

      February 27, 2013 at 1:50 am |
    • Doobs

      @ John

      Sure it's a made up word... so is every other word out there.

      Like all the ones strung together that form the bible. All made up by men.

      February 27, 2013 at 1:53 am |
  18. Reality

    Saving Christians including Timmy T from the Infamous Resurrection Con:

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15: 14, Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

    Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

    To wit;

    From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

    "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
    Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

    Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

    Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

    The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

    Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

    The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

    "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
    http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

    The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

    With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

    An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

    p.4

    "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

    p.168. by Ted Peters:

    Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

    So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

    February 24, 2013 at 8:19 am |
    • John

      R, you will never find God if you continue to read this atheistic nonsense.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:12 am |
    • .

      @John

      Nope, the real truth sets you free.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • John

      The "real truth" is that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, exists, and he sent his son Jesus to die for the sins of others. That is the truth.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:23 am |
    • nope

      nope John, there are other gods that rose from the dead and we know are completely bogus like your god.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:27 am |
    • John

      You probably didn't get the memo, God exists, the Holy Spirit exists, and Jesus exists.

      There are no other gods, the only God there is, is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:36 am |
    • clarity

      I guess a memo from mommy is proof of God for John

      February 24, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • End Religion

      John, you will never find truth if you continue to read this God nonsense. The "real truth" is that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, does not exist, and the supposed son Jesus did not die for the sins of others. That is the truth. You probably didn't get the memo, God does not exist, the Holy Spirit does not exist, and Jesus does not exist. There are no gods, particularly not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • nope

      John is a liar. Throughout history, humans have ascribed various powers to supernatural beings. Such creatures include the immortal gods and goddesses. Some are given credit for the creation of the world and mankind, or food, warfare, love, and all the other good and bad elements of life. The gods and goddesses may be worshiped with altars, elaborate or gigantic statues, or sacrifices. Poets and other writers may tell stories featuring the traditional myths about the deities' involvement in human life.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • John

      If you didn't get the memo, then yes, that might be what the problem is.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • nope

      John time to grow up and become an adult, your god doesn't exist welcome to reality.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • clarity

      Now John dear, you need to calm down – I'm going to give you some homework since I know you've become so sedentary that you can't make it to church. I want you to look up and read all about diabolical mimicry regarding the gospels – some call it plagiarism in anticipation. So sit down and have some tea and read about that. There you go, dear.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • John

      I can not ever be more truthful than right now saying this: God exists, the Holy Spirit exists, and Jesus exists. What it says in the bible, is the truth. No joke, serious as if I was standing in the eye of a 200mph tornado.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • clarity

      Do they have tornadoes outside Reno, John, or are you just seeing a dust cloud every once in a while?

      February 24, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      John
      I can not ever be more truthful than right now saying this: Santa exists, the the Easter Bunny exists, and the Loch Ness Monster exists. What it says in the Silmariliian, is the truth. No joke, serious as if I was standing in the eye of a 200mph tornado.

      Same thing you said...only the names have been changed to protect your delusions

      February 24, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • Reality

      A creed just for John:

      The Apostles' Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
      and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (references used are available upon request)

      February 24, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Larry

      John
      "That is the truth."

      No, that is just opinion... unless, of course, you can prove it?

      February 25, 2013 at 12:49 am |
    • John

      Larry, I know God is there, it is not an opinion. Now, if someone claims I'm lying, or insane, or dreaming, fine, but that is their claim, not mine. When I read the bible, none of what they talk about in there, none of it shocks me at all.

      February 25, 2013 at 5:07 am |
    • End Religion

      Except your claim is false, Johnny.

      February 25, 2013 at 5:12 am |
    • John

      This is absolute truth: I know God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus, all exist and that Jesus died for others sins.

      I know this based on what God said, and did.

      February 25, 2013 at 6:02 am |
    • Saraswati

      @John,

      "I know this based on what God said, and did."

      is the bible your only source for this? The problem for most of us is that if you don't already believe in the Christian god, it's not very credible as a source. Even if you try to believe the supposed witnesses the stories just don't make sense...a supposedly all powerful and all good god dying to correct the sins of one's ancestors...really???? The desperate appeal to "free will" to try to hold the story together looks as desperate and counter to science as it is.

      It's not for most of us the we object to the idea of a god if we were presented good evidence. We just object to one that sounds this silly.

      February 25, 2013 at 6:17 am |
    • John

      Sara, assume you had your pick of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Daniel, any apostles, any prophets in the bible talking to you right now. You would say the same thing you sa to me right now, that you don't believe them... or me... or God. There is a better one than me you could talk to, and you don't listen. I know all the things described in the bible, are not all the things God has done, and none of them shock me. If you don't believe before, you won't know it after, because God doesn't waste time and effort on those that reject him... they have to want to know him first, not just on a whim, but seriously be interested to know him, as a friend, and as God.

      February 25, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • Reality

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

      The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

      February 25, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Larry

      John
      Most parents know that their kids are "smart" and/or "good", but speaking as a retired schoolteacher I can assure you that this is also entirely pure opinion. I suggest that you have a similar love for this deity, be he real or not it doesn't matter, and that this love clouds your appreciation that not everyone shares your certainty.

      If none of the Bible shocks you, the genocides, the contradictions, the aim of eliminating democratic rule, and other problems, then I suggest that you have a rather warped conscience. I hope that you seek out help soon.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Rick

      @John
      I'll make it simple for you, believing in something does not make it real. If you want to prove that something like God is real, it's up to you to provide the proof.

      Simple enough for you?

      February 26, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • John

      R, you and others are completely confused. The one that proves things to ANYONE, is God. I do not prove anything to you, other than point out him being right in what he said, for example, the "sun became black as sackcloth of hair" which it did in the NASA Hi-C imaging... looks just like black hair on the sun.

      Now, if God wants to prove things personally to you or anyone else, that's up to him and my understanding is he does NOT prove anything to atheists or skeptics, you have to believe him first, for real, not some whimpy 5 minute belief. That's why I say, I know he's there, because he has made it clear to me, that he is there, in more ways than one. The Hi-C imaging should be obvious enough for anyone, the apostle could not have known, no man knew it but the one that saw it 2000 years ago. Anyone doubting it today, is scraping the bottom of the barrel for anything to reject God with... and that's some massively hardened skepticism... a surreal level of it... absurd level too.

      February 26, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Rick

      John
      No. We are convinced of anything by one of two things, evidence or simply becoming enamoured with the thing. One is based upon objective evaluation of the facts while the other is based upon emotional attachment. Shall I assume that your conviction that God is real is due to an emotional attachment, or do you have objective arguments which you wish to present?

      Here is a youtube video of NASA Hi-C imaging of the sun. Where do you see the "sun became black as sackcloth of hair" in this? The sun still appears in yellowish shades. No barrel bottom scraping necessary.

      I'm assuming that God doesn't "prove" to anyone that he exists, but that people come to believe it all by themselves, just as others come to believe in ghosts, astrology, voodoo, alien abduction and numerous other things that remain unsupported by science. Atheists and skeptics are simply people who do not believe. they have found no reason to thing that these things are real and they are more than skeptical as to people's testimony regarding their experience with these things. If you start with belief in these things, put on "God-colored glasses" as it were, then of course you will "see" evidence of God everywhere as you will assume that it is.

      This then becomes a silly argument. For reasons of your own you have come to believe that God is real, but they are your reasons alone and they do not actually speak to the reality of the thing.

      February 26, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    February 24, 2013 at 7:51 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Like the changes to the Manhattan skyline on 9/11 when the Hijackers prayed for success to their god?

      February 24, 2013 at 7:54 am |
    • chrissy hitchens

      Well attack etc.
      There is no relationship between Islam and God. Besides which you cannot provide proof, good or bad regarding 9/11 and the persons involved. It is odd that you would try to build your argument on the suffering of others. That would be the method of a coward and ghoul wouldn't you say?

      February 24, 2013 at 8:09 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Chrissy
      There is no relationship between anything and god. God is a fictional character, mythical. Just like the thousands of other gods that have gone before yours.

      His example is a good one. Millions of people praying that the towers would be alright, that no one is hurt. The result...the towers came down, and thousands killed.

      February 24, 2013 at 8:13 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      @ Chrissy:
      "There is no relationship between Islam and God."

      Ummm – Christianity, Islam – same Abrahamic God.

      Now, I'm not saying that you are staggeringly stupid, but that . . . no, wait – that's exact;y what I'm saying.

      February 24, 2013 at 8:17 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      February 24, 2013 at 8:59 am |
    • John

      Prayer works fine.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:10 am |
    • Nope

      @John NOPE

      February 24, 2013 at 9:11 am |
    • snopes says

      'Prayer changes things' is false

      February 24, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • John

      God answers prayers, what is the problem with that?

      February 24, 2013 at 9:16 am |
    • nope

      nope, it's not a god, just a coincidence – there is no god.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:17 am |
    • John

      God does not answer atheist's prayers, no. Why should he? What would he get out of it?

      February 24, 2013 at 9:18 am |
    • Damocles

      And wishing grants wishes.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:18 am |
    • nope

      it has nothing to do with prayer. Coincidences is not prayer. If I ask for something and get it without believing in a god, it's proof it's not about prayer.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:20 am |
    • snopes says

      John's assertions are unfounded

      February 24, 2013 at 9:21 am |
    • John

      Snopes is making claims based on their ignorance of God.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:25 am |
    • nope

      Now John is lying.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • snopes says

      John is ignorant.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • John

      If someone, including snopes, is ignorant of God, that is their problem to correct, not mine.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • Science

      John

      Remember about that bone !

      Peace

      February 24, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • nope

      John you can't be ignorant of something that doesn't exist. So you're ignorant about Santa Claus.

      February 24, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      @ John: What evidence do you have to support the claim that ANY god exists? Moving forward from that, what evidence do have to support your claim that your specific god, with the characteristics you say are attributed to your god, out of all of the thousands of gods claimed by mankind, exists?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • John

      50, the apostle plainly said the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, it did. You not caring that he was right, hence God was right, is your issue. Prayer works fine.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • End Religion

      Except the sun has never been black.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      John, you're relying on the contents of a book written by people, translated, retranslated, and modified over thousands of years. Why? You're currently relying on the acc-umulated scientific knowledge of thousands of scientists, programmers, mathematicians and technicians which magically allow you and I to communicate in essentially real time. Why, then, would you then turn your back on science and base your life on a book of Bronze age myths and morality. Slavery is sanctioned, as is genocide, child abuse and child murder, incest. A guy builds a boat big enough for all of the species of animals in the world to survive on for a year. People live to be over 900 years old.

      These are the myths of a backward and ignorant people.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • John

      50, technology is vastly overrated vs. the Holy Spirit... but it's all you have, right?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Ummm, no, John – technology is NOT all I have. But you're ducking the question: why live your life based on a book of nasty Bronze Age myths?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • John

      What part don't you understand? The Holy Spirit works fine, prayer works fine, God exists, God made everything, Jesus died for other sins... and technology is vastly overrated relative to God.... he's beyond anything you can imagine.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      What else would you expect from someone who's name is synonymous with a toilet?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • snopes says

      Holy Spirit is unfounded
      God is unfounded

      February 24, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • nope

      "The Holy Spirit works fine, prayer works fine, God exists,"

      More lies from John with no proof.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • John

      It is strange to see someone claim the Holy Spirit doesn't work. Have you read the instructions?

      February 24, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • Pete

      Most of the atheists posting here are former xtians or ministers, the bible is just a book of myths, just like all other religions.

      February 24, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Have you? Ask and it shall be given unto you, John. I knew a woman who committed her entire life to others, who worshipped God and prayed daily, who spent her time with the sick, the lonely, and the needy. She died in pain of a horrible disease. She prayed that treatment would work. So did her family. She died anyway long before she'd lived a full life.

      What kind of moron are you?

      February 24, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • clarity

      Now John dear, in case you missed my other reply – I'm going to give you some homework since I know you've become so sedentary that you can't make it to church. I want you to look up and read all about diabolical mimicry regarding the gospels – some call it plagiarism in anticipation. So sit down and have some tea and read about that. There you go, dear.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • John

      Pete, if anyone lost their faith from atheist's brainwashing tactics, and their weak faith, they'll have to take that up with God.

      God's words though, they are more than sufficient to prove who he is... if someone bothers to believe him and understand what he said.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • clarity

      "weak faith"

      Oh, no dear, that's the point – there really is no need to have any faith in silly concepts from ancient folklore and fable.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Pete

      John all other religions have made similar claims to yours and they are just myth like your god. You have no proof of your god, if you did the xtians would have done something about it by now. The weak are those that have to believe in an imaginary friend, atheists are the adults that have grown up.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Doobs

      @ TTTPS

      It was god calling her home early as a reward for all her prayers and good deeds. Fundies can rationalize anything when it comes to their god's failures.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • End Religion

      John's head is like a crackhouse full of lost and deluded thoughts.

      February 24, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • John

      ER, In your mind, I am as crazy as you want me to be if I repeat what God told the prophets, or I say God is right. It is your doubt that causes this, otherwise you'd see it's the truth and move forwards to finding God and believing him.

      February 25, 2013 at 5:22 am |
    • End Religion

      John, I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say. Are you saying you agree there is no god because you finally came to your senses?

      February 25, 2013 at 5:55 am |
  20. Science

    4.5 Billion years ago Live 4 Him and Topher too

    Geologic Journey 3 of 5 – The Canadian Shield

    Peace

    Now what Live 4 Him ?

    February 24, 2013 at 7:28 am |
    • John

      S, it doesn't make any sense to point at what God made, and then claim he should be rejected because he made it.

      February 24, 2013 at 7:47 am |
    • Science

      John

      Lead to gold NO

      Just like Adam poked himself hard with his bone and created Eve

      Peace

      February 24, 2013 at 7:52 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      Did God also create Tiktaalik, the Canadian fossil that bridges the gap between fish and tetrapods? Gee, that's another "gap" that we've discovered no God hiding in. Not too many left. Tick Tock buddy, Tick Tock!

      February 25, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • John

      Franklin, yes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he made everything. There is no higher honor someone could have, than to say that.... to me anyway, so naturally I enjoy saying it. It's like enjoying ice cream... a fact that you say, a truth, that's like ice cream.

      February 26, 2013 at 12:01 am |
    • Damocles

      Wipe your chin, John. Your truth is melting.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • Franklin

      John
      I was actually hoping that you weren't just a troll. Imagine my disappointment!

      February 26, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.