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Coalition of Christians pushes Congress to protect poor from forced spending cuts
February 25th, 2013
05:13 PM ET

Coalition of Christians pushes Congress to protect poor from forced spending cuts

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – A coalition of noteworthy Christian leaders and thinkers is asking President Barack Obama and congressional leaders to protect the poor from the forced spending cuts that are due to take effect this week.

The group’s open letter frames budget decisions as a moral question for lawmakers and asks them to stop the political brinksmanship.

“Important choices must be made: we must weigh the benefits of tax credits for low-income people and tax breaks for high income people; of nutrition assistance to low-income families and subsidies to agricultural businesses,” the letter says. “Congress can and must develop a balanced and thoughtful path forward that protects the most vulnerable and preserves economic opportunity.”

The group is called Circle of Protection,  and it goes on to ask lawmakers to “maintain a Circle of Protection around effective programs focused on hungry and poor people in our country and around the world.”

Founded nearly two years ago, the groups boasts a politically diverse group of almost 100 Christian leaders, including Leith Anderson, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, Bishop Stephen E. Blaire from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and Jim Wallis, president of the group Sojourners.

Wallis, who for many years has helped organize Christian coalitions to lobby Congress on issues such as immigration and poverty, said he is prepared to harness the power of the Christian congregations for the issues of poverty and the budget.

“People of faith are saying that what the Bible tells us that a nation will be judged by how it treats the poorest and most vulnerable,” Wallis told CNN. “It doesn’t say it will be judged by its military, its gross domestic product or by its popular culture. That is the principle that we all have to obey.”

On top of sending this letter to the leaders in Congress and the White House, Wallis said the group will ask pastors around the country to engage their congregation on the issue.

The reasons for Wallis’ passion on the issue: his belief that a budget is a moral issue.

“These are moral choices that they are making,” Wallis said. “We are saying that you have to be self-conscience about your choices. These are choices about people, and we have said since the start that the budget is a moral document. It says, who is important and who is not, what is important and what is not.”

If Congress and the White House don’t act on forced spending cuts, known in Washington as the sequester, across-the-board budget cuts will be made to domestic and defense programs starting March 1. The triggered cuts, which originated from the White House in 2011 as Congress faced debate over raising the debt ceiling, were only supposed to be enacted if the two sides couldn’t agree on a deficit-reduction plan.

So far, no agreement has been reached.

What do the cuts mean for most people? Some 4 million home-bound and disabled seniors may have to go without supper this year because of cuts to Meals on Wheels programs, some 70,000 children from lower-income families will not be able to enroll for preschools and day care centers run by Head Start programs this fall and on average, it would mean a cut of $400 for nearly 3.8 million Americans.

For members of the Circle of Protection, these issues are personal, says Wallis.

“We are pastors and faith leaders who know the people are that are going to be hurt if you cut Head Start or food stamps,” Wallis concluded. “We know their names, the moms and kids and dads.”

– CNNMoney’s Jennifer Liberto contributed to this report.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Christianity • Faith Now • Politics • Poverty

soundoff (562 Responses)
  1. Cheap Michael Kors Logo Signature Satchels in Coffee

    Diligence is the mother of success.
    Cheap Michael Kors Logo Signature Satchels in Coffee http://myupgrades.com/michael-kors/cheapmk.php?product_id=180

    January 3, 2014 at 7:05 pm |
  2. Science

    Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !

    Where do morals come from?

    By Kelly Murray, CNN

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

    Gravity is not up for debate !

    BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !

    Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet..............................E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas.

    Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm

    Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

    The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

    The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

    Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

    April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

    May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

    Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

    And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !

    From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

    the wrong path is Adam and Eve !

    Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

    Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

    No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

    Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

    No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !

    Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History

    Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm

    Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4

    Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

    Good stuff !

    The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !

    Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

    Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

    For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !

    Where do morals come from?

    By Kelly Murray, CNN

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/

    Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

    Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

    Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
    bears his name as the “God particle.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

    Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
    Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/

    Science

    Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
    By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/

    April 7th, 2012

    08:32 PM ET

    The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915

    Make sure to read comments

    April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |

    Breaking News

    NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/planet-discovery/index.html

    NASA: Mars could have supported life

    Star Dust we are

    Peace

    Holy Hallucinations 35

    BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus

    May 4, 2013 at 6:40 am |
  3. Sara Howells


    .

    February 28, 2013 at 5:26 am |
    • Garbage Alert

      This poster is here just to get hits for their youtube video. It's garbage, like all the others they have tried here.

      Click the report abuse link to get rid of this troll.

      February 28, 2013 at 8:58 am |
  4. lol??

    Fuel ain't the problem. Whatdya gonna accomplish shunnin' coal?? Coalishuns will just make the fire hotter. Burned up food.

    February 28, 2013 at 4:31 am |
  5. Reality

    Only for those who are not reading challenged:

    Prayers are useless, ideas are priceless!!!

    Some ideas for creating new jobs for taxpayers: (What are your ideas?)

    1. Inst-itute an “old-house/condo/apartment” replacement program akin to the successful “automobile gas-guzzler” removal program. Today, there are simply too many houses, condos and apartments in the USA. It is significantly stupid to continue building new ones on new lots. Tear down existing dwellings and rebuild on the same lot thereby keeping the number of housing units stable and providing many jobs in the demolition, building material suppliers and construction industries.

    2. Are big cities needed anymore? Most exist for the service industry and these days most services can be provided from the home via PCs. Time to consider big city downsizing with conversion of these outdated areas to parks and entertainment centers. Again, more jobs are created to accomplish this. (planners, architects, landscapers, construction workers and building material suppliers).

    3. Fresh water diversions/capture: It is insane to allow all of our fresh water to flow back into the oceans. Areas like Southwest and Western states have droughts almost every year. Time to build huge canals from rivers like the Mississippi and Missouri to irrigate these parched lands. And it is time to dramatically increase the number of reservoirs in states like Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico. Again more jobs created for planners, civil engineers, construction workers, building suppliers, farmers and ranchers.

    4. R&E jobs- a. computer-driven cars, busses, trucks, planes and ships b. Robotic police, fire and protective aids c. More efficient birth control methods d. A pill to temporarily eliminate the se-x drive.

    5. A female “Viagra”

    6. Continued search for cheap fusion energy.

    7. Space jobs-a Moon/Mars stations/mining run by robots. b. Highly functional, well-equipped, super-fast interstellar probes

    February 27, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • Reality

      Ooops, a glitch in my computer caused a doubling of these comments. I do apologize.

      February 27, 2013 at 11:48 pm |
    • lol??

      Right and the dog ate yer homework.

      February 28, 2013 at 4:34 am |
  6. Reality

    Only for those who are not reading challenged:

    Prayers are useless, ideas are priceless!!!

    Some ideas for creating new jobs for taxpayers: (What are your ideas?)

    1. Inst-itute an “old-house/condo/apartment” replacement program akin to the successful “automobile gas-guzzler” removal program. Today, there are simply too many houses, condos and apartments in the USA. It is significantly stupid to continue building new ones on new lots. Tear down existing dwellings and rebuild on the same lot thereby keeping the number of housing units stable and providing many jobs in the demolition, building material suppliers and construction industries.

    2. Are big cities needed anymore? Most exist for the service industry and these days most services can be provided from the home via PCs. Time to consider big city downsizing with conversion of these outdated areas to parks and entertainment centers. Again, more jobs are created to accomplish this. (planners, architects, landscapers, construction workers and building material suppliers).

    3. Fresh water diversions/capture: It is insane to allow all of our fresh water to flow back into the oceans. Areas like Southwest and Western states have droughts almost every year. Time to build huge canals from rivers like the Mississippi and Missouri to irrigate these parched lands. And it is time to dramatically increase the number of reservoirs in states like Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico. Again more jobs created for planners, civil engineers, construction workers, building suppliers, farmers and ranchers.

    4. R&E jobs- a. computer-driven cars, busses, trucks, planes and ships b. Robotic police, fire and protective aids c. More efficient birth control methods d. A pill to temporarily eliminate the se-x drive.

    5. A female “Viagra”

    6. Continued search for cheap fusion energy.

    7. Space jobs-a Moon/Mars stations/mining run by robots. b. Highly functional, well-equipped, super-fast interstellar probes

    February 27, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
  7. Atheist Hunter

    http://www.omegaletter.com/articles/articles.asp?ArticleID=7552

    ENJOY!

    February 27, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
  8. Doc Vestibule

    At 1PM today, NASA will be hosting a news teleconference to announce black hole observations from the Nuclear Spectroscopic Telecrope Array and the European Space Agency's XMM-Newton X-Ray telescope.

    http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl2

    Who knows – maybe they'll announce that the universe is actually very tiny, only a few thousand years old and that we are the very centre of it all.

    But probably not.

    February 27, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • Science

      Good one Doc

      Peace

      February 27, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • JMEF

      Doc, you are just teasing Topher, Chad and the rest but you may actually have convinced them to watch real science, Bravo.

      February 27, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Topher

      Yeah, Doc. Quit teasing. :)

      February 27, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Science

      It might help forL4H and a few more to tune in also !

      Thanks Doc

      February 27, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      From the Gospel of Boanerges
      2:9 Bo, But jesus what do we know of our world? 10 Jesus, The earth is not flat as some believe and E=MC2 but these things will be hidden from your comprehension. 11 Bo, But why should we not have this knowledge now? 12 Jesus, well it is my old man, he works in mysterious ways. 13 Bo. You aren't making up a bunch of sh-it to try and impress me are you? 14 Jesus. Ya but that is what the whole scam is based on, get it? 15 Bo. I got it lord stick to the stories, can we fool around now, wink, wink.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Astronomers have been led astray by observations of tired light (tired electromagnetic radiation). Until they fix that problem there's nothing they can report that's worth hearing. There is no redshift. The Universe ends just beyond the position of Voyager I and it always will.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      L4H doesn't believe that the speed of light is constant.
      I assume this belief extends to X-Rays as well – therefore whatever the array observes actually happened very recently.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Kee

      You do all realize that there are religious people that work for NASA, right?

      Quote from NASA employee Michael Good: “They say there’s no atheists in foxholes, but there’s probably no atheists in rockets.”

      http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/good-mt.html

      "Although NASA does not provide spiritual resources, religious objects—crosses, Bibles, icons, prayer cards—are among the most common personal items taken into space, said Johnson Space Center spokesman James Hartsfield."

      http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/07/exploring-the-heavens-christian-astronauts-reflect-on-their-creator/

      February 27, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @TTTOO
      I had to look up "tired light".
      The hypothesis seems about as legit as phrenology.

      February 27, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Kee
      I have no doubt that there are religious people working for NASA.
      Even the Vatican has an astronomer, after all.
      What you won't find is a Young Earth Creationist.

      February 27, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Kee

      @Doc

      Probably, right. I realized later you were targeting some other people on your post.

      I was trying to target the poster "Science" who seems to think atheists have some exclusive claim to science and technology.

      February 27, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • WASP

      @KEE: " “They say there’s no atheists in foxholes, but there’s probably no atheists in rockets.”
      you know i remember another TROLL on here that used that same exact quote, except they placed GEORGE W. BUSH
      in front of it.

      well to inform you that THERE ARE QUITE A FEW ATHEISTS IN THOSE FOXHOLES.
      i am an 8 year combat veteran from the united states army.
      my MOS was 13B; which is field artillery.
      i served in OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM 3; which means i was in the third wave to go into iraq.
      i was going to serve more time however recieveing injuries cut that short.

      SO TROLL BE GONE.

      February 27, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • Science

      Thanks for your service Wasp.

      Peace

      67v back in my time, OH-58's

      Like to take some on a NOE flight to meet the fairy in the sky.

      February 27, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • WASP

      @science: thank you for blazing the trail first.
      on the NOE flight, can i join? i have a few things i want to discuss with that sky fairy if we meet him. XD ROFLMFAO!

      February 27, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Wasp

      No problem on blazzing the trail, never did find the fairy in the sky thou.

      We could try again thou, but results will be the same I bet.

      February 27, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • lol??

      Two holes kissin'. News?? bigot

      February 28, 2013 at 4:37 am |
  9. Science

    For your enjoyment, creationists.

    Facts = Evolution =Truth

    Peace

    February 27, 2013 at 6:06 am |
    • Aydin

      Very interesting vieo from the BBC – thanks! I think both atheists and deists/religious evolutionists would enjoy it. I actually got hooked into the story.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:31 am |
    • Science

      Aydin

      I liked it too. , lots of facts.

      Thank you for watching and commenting.

      Peace

      February 28, 2013 at 4:17 am |
    • lol??

      I've seen enuff of this picture of the guy forcin' his spouse to do the land mine clearin'. Pwogwess?? bigot

      February 28, 2013 at 4:43 am |
  10. CrossCountry

    How about some of these Christian leaders cut some of THEIR spending on their mulit million dollar building projects and give that to the poor. I agree, they need breaks, funding and help. Forming a group and talking about this politically is only to make them look good. These men could easily dig deep into their coffers and pull out some green back.

    February 26, 2013 at 11:58 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      BAH. I need to clarify "the poor need breaks, funding and help" and " these christian leaders forming a group is only to make themselves look good and appease their consciences"

      This is what happens when I drink whiskey and post.

      February 27, 2013 at 12:04 am |
    • fintastic

      Good point.... My mother-in-law belongs to a mega-multi-million dollar church... huge theater size building, super expensive multimedia sound and video.... it boggles my mind... all that money that could have gone directly to the poor... for cryin out loud!.. meet in a barn and give the money to those who really need it...

      February 27, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • Religion is

      Superstition!

      It's all entertainment, man. If you can get a little "biblical boost" for your buck that's your bonus. To me, it's all bullshit.

      February 28, 2013 at 1:55 am |
  11. Leftcoastrocky

    What would Jesus do? What these Christian leaders are doing.

    February 26, 2013 at 11:48 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      I disagree. By all accounts..the Jesus you mention would likely have gone out and actually FED them (ie: worked in a soup kitchen) or clothed them (given them some of his garb) or perhaps even reached into his purse and given them money (something these leaders will likely not do).

      February 27, 2013 at 12:06 am |
  12. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Chad offers a diversion from his painful attempt to make some headway in cosmology:

    "Believers have a reason to reject the existence of Odin, namely that belief in the God of Israel is mutually exclusive with belief in other gods.
    - If the God of Israel is real, there are no other gods
    - The God of Israel is real
    - Therefor(e), Odin does not exist"

    How is belief in the God of Israel exclusive of belief in other gods? If the God of Israel is claimed to be the only real god, or is claimed to have claimed that it is the only real god, a believer in the God of Israel could (also) believe some combination of
    1) people who claim that the God of Israel is the only real god are wrong
    2) the God of Israel never claimed that it is the only real god
    3) the God of Israel claims falsely that it is the only real god

    February 26, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Yeah, he definitely has some extra unstated premises in there. But if he spells those out the argument does work. The main issue is that his whole set of evidence for the God of Israel rests on stories of the empty tomb and resurrection being true and unbiased accounts, when there is no good reason to believe that over alien abduction stories or tales of Gilgamesh and nothing he has is ever going to convince an unbiased observer that the evidence is strong enough. Additionally, the traits assigned to this god are not consistent enough to be plausible. But sure, if everything Chad *does* believe about this god is true, then by definition really there are no other gods.

      February 27, 2013 at 7:24 am |
    • Thou Shall

      have no other Gods before me. So it is quite obvious he knew there was competi-tion out there. Intresting the first four commandments were about protecting this gods turf. Also intresting that he picked a rather small primitave society to send his son too and why not a whole whack of sons in every corner of the world, lots of virgins to chose from? Rather pathetic omnipotent god that can't get the whole world in his hands, as the song goes.

      February 27, 2013 at 9:04 am |
    • Saraswati

      Excellent points, Thou...the storu just doesn't hang together unless you want it badly enough to wear blinders against the gaping holes.

      February 27, 2013 at 11:05 am |
  13. Chad

    @Wasp "REPLY: the universe adheres to laws of phyics strictly because if it didn't there wouldn't be a universe."

    =>"Nobody built that house! It just happened to be in that form. All that wood is organized in that manner precisely because if it wasnt, it wouldnt be a house!! D'UH!!

    uh.. what?

    February 26, 2013 at 10:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      An invisible being snapped its fingers and *poof*, there was the universe.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
    • Mary

      What is that? Hindu? This invisible being you believe in did no work? That being didn't need to rest?

      February 26, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
    • WASP

      @chad: why is it you christian freaks compare a house to the universe? a house is an unatural structure, the creation of human intelligence. comparing a house to the universe shows your level of accepted ignorance.
      a house doesn't just "pop" into being and neither did the universe; that's why atheists and scienctists state it took BILLIONS of years for the universe to get to the state it's in now. religion saids the universe sprang up from a pile of "boards".
      if you so ignorantly believe in god then you believe in magic. magic is the creation of something for nothing or out of nothing.
      did you folks ever bother to ask who profits from your attentance in church? whom has the most to gain from you not asking questions? think in real life terms now, not the whole "you will profit once you're dead" BS they fed you in bible school.

      i've explained before why god wasn't needed for this universe to exsist. we atheists have explained repeatedly how "the god myth" makes no logical sence at all; however you folks refuse to face reality out of programmed fear.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • Chad

      @WASP "why is it you christian freaks compare a house to the universe? a house is an unatural structure, the creation of human intelligence. comparing a house to the universe shows your level of accepted ignorance.
      a house doesn't just "pop" into being and neither did the universe; that's why atheists and scienctists state it took BILLIONS of years for the universe to get to the state it's in now"
      @Chad "you should do some reading on the initial state of entropy in the universe. The extraordinarily low initial value is precisely analogous to the house.

      anyway, the point I was making was that the laws that the universe adheres to are the result of the initial state. Saying that "universe adheres to laws of phyics strictly because if it didn't there wouldn't be a universe" is utterly nonsensical.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • Chad "logic" at it's finest!

      Low entropy = house

      Brilliant.

      Care to share your academic credentials with us Chad?

      February 27, 2013 at 1:43 am |
    • WASP

      @chad: i have read that's why i'm atheist. i read the bible and i don't see how it makes any sense to anyone seieng how religious leaders have to disect it and "interpret" it for you folks to understand.

      if you bothered to read you would find physics doesn't change, only our understanding of these laws do as we develop better technology. you can't ever change 1+1=2 it's simply impossible, unless you're using some other tpe of math i don't know about.can religion state such concrete evidence?
      i highly doubt it seeing every day a new "idea of god" sprouts up.
      if math displays laws to be true then the law holds up until a new math equation can disprove that one.
      please try and disprove E=MC2, or any of the other laws of physics; on the other hand i can continue to disprove your "god" by simply looking around at the enviroment i live in.
      there are humans that can "see" future events before they happen; if humans can se "god's" plan then they can change god's plan thus making god not all powerful thus eliminating "god" as what humans claim it to be.

      YOU ARE ALONE GET OVER IT ALREADY.

      February 27, 2013 at 6:24 am |
    • WASP

      @chad: ok again you slipped past me by picking only one part of what i replied to you with, just like last time.
      what is your reply to your 3 proofs of god that you gave? huh? no answer, well i guess when you can't thump your bible or bend science to fit your ideals you just dodge the debate topic and change subjects.
      congrats you're a mouse in a maze avoiding the snake on your tail. :)

      February 27, 2013 at 8:59 am |
    • Science

      Plain and simple Chad is lost in space !!!

      Bait Chad !

      Peace

      February 27, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • Chad

      Why to the laws of physics exist?
      What is the reason for the extraordinarily low initial entropy state of the universe?

      Since science depends on the laws existence to explain anything (science exists as a discipline because the universe obeys these laws), it cannot ever explain either, by definition.

      so.. what do you do? just ignore it?
      "The laws exist because if they didnt the universe would be what it is", is a nonsensical statement.

      February 27, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • JMEF

      Intresting that man had to develop the laws of physics and come to think of it all the other knowledge on earth and about the universe. Now if your 2000 year old story book was the word of the one true god and he wanted to inform his creations their place in the universe why would he have not provided all that knowledge at the get go. Mankind is on a journey of continuing discovery, they created the idea of gods but have now evolved beyond that primitave belief system, get over yourself.

      February 27, 2013 at 9:30 am |
    • Jill

      Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat

      Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat

      Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat Repeat

      February 27, 2013 at 9:36 am |
    • Jesus

      @Chad
      Why to the laws of physics exist?
      Why to the laws of physics exist is irrelevant to their existence. If you can’t see that, then you’re either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.

      What is the reason for the extraordinarily low initial entropy state of the universe?
      What exactly was the initial entropy state of the universe Chad? Were you or anyone else there to measure it? Is it listed somewhere in your book of fables and only you can see it?

      Since science depends on the laws existence to explain anything
      Science does not depend on the laws existence to explain anything. It merely attempts to explain the properties, limits, and interactions of said ‘laws’. Same as before if you can’t see that, then you’re either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • Ron

      January 2013 The scientific world is abuzz with news of the ratification of the existence of the subatomic particle called the Higgs boson – or more colloquially, the 'God particle.' This subatomic particle's existence – which was verified recently (with virtually near certainty) by experiments at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland – lends credence to several long-standing physical theories such as the so-called Standard Model and the Big Bang Theory.

      The nickname God particle is ironic for two reasons. First, generally, the nuclear physicists who deal with these matters – postulating the fundamental physical laws of the universe and then setting about to either verify or refute them – tend not to be regular church-goers. While there are some highly prominent scientists who balance personal, religious beliefs with professional, scientific quests, most probably go along with the thoughts of the world-famous physicist, Stephen Hawking.
      "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God."

      So, it is a bit ironic that physics' most famous quest has resulted in the discovery of the 'God particle.' Most physicists are quite comfortable having their names associated with famous – even if dead – humans like Newton, Einstein or the afore-mentioned Hawking. One will find few, if any, attributions to deities in the objects that physicists discover and name or the theories they propose.

      Second, and more importantly, the discovery that the God particle really exists does not – as the name suggests – imply that God played some role in the creation of the universe. In fact, quite the opposite.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • WASP

      @chad: the link for your "arguement" point...............not a credible site for scienctific information.
      LINK: http://prosblogion.ektopos.com/archives/2010/12/a-simple-design.html

      so everyone can read where you get your "facts". LMFAO.

      the link for ALL laws of basic physics, do try to disprove one of these.
      LINK: http://www.spec2000.net/06-basicphysics.htm

      @CHAD: again you failed to back up your "proof" of god exsisting from the fossil record, etc etc etc please STOP AVOIDING YOUR OWN CLAIMS WHEN BROUGHT IN TO QUESTION. :)

      February 27, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • WASP

      @EVERYONE: that link for "chad's" arguement point is for his whole "low entropy whatchamacallit."
      hope this aids everyone in understanding just just how much of a lost cause CHAD is.

      February 27, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • Chad

      @WASP @chad: the link for your "arguement" point...............not a credible site for scienctific information.
      LINK: http://prosblogion.ektopos.com/archives/2010/12/a-simple-design.html
      so everyone can read where you get your "facts". LMFAO.

      @Chad "looking at my browser history, I have never actually been to that site, so your ad-hominem turned out to be completely inaccurate :-)

      The fact that the universe began in a extraordinarily low entropy state is not up for debate, there are zero cosmologists that claim otherwise.

      =====
      @WASP "the link for ALL laws of basic physics, do try to disprove one of these. LINK: http://www.spec2000.net/06-basicphysics.htm

      @Chad " You are fundamentally just not following the argument at all..

      I am not trying to "disprove the laws of physics", that is a nonsensical claim on your part.

      what I am asking is: "why do the laws of physics exist?". Why is the universe such that it obeys laws at all?
      that is the design argument.

      so, you need to come up with a naturalistic way to explain why the universe obeys laws.
      which, be definition, is impossible.
      There is no known naturalistic explanation of why the universe follows laws.

      Science by definition cannot EVER explain it, as science is predicated on the existence of those laws.
      "Because science begins with the laws of the universe, it can not ever explain why the laws exist, because to do so would require the existence of another law, which could not be explained." - Leonard Mlodinow, co-author with Stephen Hawkings of "A Briefer History of Time"

      .”I sometimes wonder why the laws of our universe exist” – Leonard Mlodinow.

      February 27, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      Your appeal to authority is always going to fall on deaf ears, especially when that authority you keep appealing to for the most part disagrees with your fundemental beliefs and don't even support your argument. Give it up Chad, trying to ground your belief in god in cosmology by assumption is foolish, at best.

      February 27, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Krauss, Dawkins, Hawking, and many other peer-reviewed and published scientists offer compelling reasons why the universe is the way it is, with no gods required. Why should we believe Internet experts such as Chad, mental midgets such as Topher or religious charlatans in general?

      February 27, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Chad has a limited imagination. Why is there order at all? Why does logic work?

      February 27, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Science

      TTPS

      Chad's imagination = fairy in the sky maybe

      Poke.

      February 27, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • WASP

      @chad: "I am not trying to "disprove the laws of physics"

      no you are attempting to use physics to say your "god did it".
      that is placing those of us that don't believe in your god in the position to have to disprove your god to explain why your god didn't do anything.
      the laws of physics exsist and follow certain guildelines strictly because they exsist; just as you exsist and follow certain inarguible guildelines.
      example you can not change your genetic gender regardless of how much you may try; you can't change when your body requires food or water, you can't control your breathing or heartbeat.
      all those and many other things are outside your control because they follow their own set of rules ue to the fact that you as a human exsist on this earth.

      the universe operates in the same way; it has to maintain balance otherwise unknown consequences happen; mainly our universe could blink out of exsistance in an instant. your body has to maintain an balance as well; if your bio-chemical reactions become unbalanced your body temperature would continue to elevate once your body reaches a certain temperature you would become unconcious if it continued to rise uncontrolled your body could reach what is known as "flash point" where you would spontaniously combust.
      yes reaction like these can occur; it is just very, very rare that the body would survive to the point that the reactions could get that far out of hand. most humans would be dead before reaching that point, once you're dead the body shuts down and the reactions are no longer fueled, thus you don't ignite upon death.

      everything in the known universe is seeking balance, that is why plutonium and other radioactive substances throw off energy, they are attempting to reach balance.

      i hope you can understand something as simple as balance in all things.

      not to forget........................YOU STILL HAVEN'T REPLIED TO YOUR 3 "PROOFS OF GOD."
      I'M WAITING....................OR IS YOUR SILENCE ACCEPTANCE OF FAILURE?

      February 27, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Chad

      @Chuckles "Your appeal to authority is always going to fall on deaf ears, especially when that authority you keep appealing to for the most part disagrees with your fundemental beliefs and don't even support your argument."
      @Chad "
      1. well, I see you've given up on your
      "Do you just ignore the parts where Davies says how absurd the idea of a creator is or do you see it and just pretend he says the opposite"
      claim. that's good..

      2. Davies agrees with many of my fundamental points:
      - the universe is fine tuned
      - fine tuning indicates design
      - the multi-verse theory is a non-natural, non-scientific theory.

      3. Davies, as a Deist, supports the notion of a creator (albeit impersonal)

      Give it up Chad, trying to ground your belief in god in cosmology by assumption is foolish, at best.

      February 27, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Chad

      @chad: "I am not trying to "disprove the laws of physics"
      @WASP "no you are attempting to use physics to say your "god did it"."
      @Chad "sort of, but again you are not following the argument.
      I am asking, why do these laws exist?
      There can be no natural reason, by definition.

      ======
      @WASP "the laws of physics exsist and follow certain guildelines strictly because they exsist;"
      @Chad "they exist because they exist."

      perfectly circular logic!! well done.

      no, sorry, that is manifestly fallacious logic.

      February 27, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      What is the minimal set of rules? Is God subject to them?

      February 27, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      1. I don't know Davies nor have I studied his work let alone his own personal beliefs. If he's a deist, cool, whatever, I think he's wrong, but then again him and I both agree you are wrong so does it really matter?

      2. "- the universe is fine tuned
      – fine tuning indicates design
      – the multi-verse theory is a non-natural, non-scientific theory."
      The universe being finely-tuned again is an appeal to authority and is a poor one at that. Please show me where else in the entire universe that can support life. just one other place will do. Now if you were to say that the basic idea of the universe having constants is "fine-tuning" it still wouldn't indicate design. Also, multi-verse hypothesis is not a theory, although I mispoke earlier. Since it's only a hypothesis it's perfectly reasonable to toss out the idea only because it isn't dismissed as impossible by the physical evidence (namely because there is none) and so could possibly exist, a long with your god. Since they are on the same level they are either both valid hypothesis that aren't supported with any sort of fact or they are neither. Since you used Davies as inspiration to bash multi-verse hypothesis, you inadvertantly put both yours and multi-verse in the same boat, so are they both valid or not? If you need as much faith to believe in multi-verse hypothesis as god, then that means everything you've said up till now is invalidated as NOT evidence but pure assumption on your part.... Looks like you got yourself in a bit of a pi.c.kle I see.

      3. Davies's beliefs aren't on trial here. As I pointed out before, I think he's wrong but I haven't spoken with him, debated or read enough of his work to understand what he really believes. In any event, his beliefs do not bolster your argument.

      February 27, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If Chard's arguments held any water, none of us would be here debating the issue.

      Instead, Chard is here blabbering on and on, with proof of nothing at all. Except that he's a fvckwit.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      TTTPS

      Chad is back on the idea that we must have a reason or argument for rejecting his God of Israel. It's on another thread. He's retreated from cosmology for now, I guess.

      Strange that he can't accept a basic idea: That we should begin by rejecting all gods by default and then consider them individually on the basis of evidence if we care to do so.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If Chard were paid based on his progress in proving the existence of God, he'd be on welfare by now.

      February 27, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
    • WASP

      @chad: (shakes head.....slowly)
      enjoy your fantasy world filled with magic chad. to me your lack of understanding is appalling.
      i can only say it this way, if the laws of physics DID NOT exsist, neither would our universe. those laws are what hold this universe together in balance.
      a "god" isn't needed for something so simple as the laws of physics; they weren't created those laws have been here eons before humans started to dicover them and they will still apply eons after we are nothing more than space dust.

      enough wasting perfectly good logic on someone so well trained in the art of "christiandom".

      February 28, 2013 at 6:18 am |
  14. Polycarp

    Reduce the Budget Dept. of Education, Dept of Interior, and now you have money for the poor.

    February 26, 2013 at 8:56 pm |
    • Barney

      Military spending is the place to cut. Way too many decades of buying hyperexpensive weapons we never used. The intelligence budgets need some serious caps as well.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:02 pm |
  15. Christians love to talk the talk but they don’t walk the walk

    With America being the richest country in the world
    And Christians making up about 80% of the population
    If only half of the Christians were only half as charitable as they like to pretend to be
    There wouldn’t be a sing hungry person, homeless person or foster child in the whole country

    February 26, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • Zingo

      They like to say that is socialism. It's always good to be able to take either side of a debate.

      February 26, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • Kee

      @ There wouldn’t be a sing hungry person, homeless person or foster child in the whole country

      So if we just give everybody in need free food and free homes all will be good?

      Throwing money at problems always fixes them, right?

      February 26, 2013 at 8:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Says Kee, who objects to supporting Head Start and Meals on Wheels because they're just "handouts."

      February 26, 2013 at 8:57 pm |
    • Barney

      Are you trying to get out of what Jesus told you to do?

      February 26, 2013 at 9:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      By the way, Kee, where did Christians love to ever mention money at all? Or do you just fail to grasp that generosity isn't dependent on money alone? Why haven't you adopted a foster child? Or given food to a hungry person in a soup kitchen? Or provided blankets, clothing, and toiletries to a homeless shelter?

      Hypocrite.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:03 pm |
    • Kee

      @ Says Kee, who objects to supporting Head Start and Meals on Wheels because they're just "handouts."

      WRONG. I volunteer with an organization that provides food to those in need. I also volunteer with an organization that provides education to children, a majority who live in poverty. I appreciate Head Start and Meals on Wheels.

      I certainly don't object to them.

      @ Are you trying to get out of what Jesus told you to do?

      I'm asking questions. The poster talked about money (richest country) and Christians. I'm just asking, can we really fix these problems with just money?

      @ Why haven't you adopted a foster child? Or given food to a hungry person in a soup kitchen? Or provided blankets, clothing, and toiletries to a homeless shelter?

      Are you listing these because that's what you've done?

      February 26, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I'm listing them because you jumped on the monetary aspect of giving immediately. What makes you think that Christians love to was talking about money when he/she mentioned charity?

      Guilty conscience? Too close to home?

      February 26, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Just a note – the relevent measure of wealth for running a social welfare program is per capita GDP, and the US isn't top. High, but not top.

      February 26, 2013 at 9:57 pm |
    • Kee

      @ Guilty conscience? Too close to home?

      Yes. I try to help others. But I could do a lot more. My point, in asking questions about money, was to show that, yes, we need to do more than just give money away. Thanks.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't believe that was your point at all, Kee. I think you are being disingenuous by saying it was. Your point was really to say that we should stop "throwing money at problems" and thereby cut taxes.

      But of course, you'll deny it.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:02 pm |
    • Kee

      Cut taxes? Lady, do you think I'm some kind of conservative Republican? Hu?

      Let's do more than just throw money at the problem, yes. That's what I think we need to do.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Hu"? Are you Chinese?

      What is it you think "we need to do" that can be done without money?

      February 26, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
    • Kee

      Nothing.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      That's what I figured.

      February 26, 2013 at 10:29 pm |
    • Kee

      from
      > generosity isn't dependent on money alone.

      to
      > What is it you think "we need to do" that can be done without money?

      I was going to say volunteer at 'Meals on Wheels'. But you decided I oppose that organization. (I don't. You were wrong)

      February 26, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • WASP

      @kee: you don't understand the human psyche do you? if the government was to provide these folks with a home and food they would have the spirit and drive to WANT to accomplish more for themselves. it's not throwing money at the problem; humans aren't a problem.
      i believe in helping others and i do donate my time to helping at soup kitchens, aspca clinics cleaning stalls and playing
      with abused animals; however i don't require a book full of threats to make me want to do this.
      it's sad that religious people require a reward/punishment system the same as children to be good humans. you should feel embarrased, not proud of that fact.
      my second point, think of how much money people would have to provide for their families if the government provided the basic needs; medical care, housing, food. those are the most costly things in american life.

      February 26, 2013 at 11:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "So if we just give everybody in need free food and free homes all will be good?

      Throwing money at problems always fixes them, right?"

      You just don't know how to be truthful, do you?

      February 27, 2013 at 7:16 am |
  16. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things

    February 26, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!,

      February 26, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • The Truth

      "Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, [a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do." James 1:2-7 NIV

      February 27, 2013 at 6:45 am |
    • End Religion

      If you believe in god and hell then there is no question god sends people to hell if they don't play his game properly. He supposedly set the game in motion and forces one to choose.

      Just like Jigsaw from the movie Saw, god supposedly puts a game in motion, forcing people to choose his way or torture. While the poor cattle in the movie indeed get to "exercise free will" they've still been bound into a game against their choice, then forced to play by its rules.

      And you call this god a loving god... lol.. He's a horror movie monster.

      February 27, 2013 at 6:54 am |
  17. WASP

    @chad:
    "Scientific evidence for the God of Israel
    Fossil Record.
    From the late 1800's thru 1972 the notion of "Darwinian gradualism" held the world captive. The notion that purely random mutation preserved in the population by natural selection would produce a gradual change, which over time would create the complexity of life we now observe (phyletic gradualism).
    Then, in 1972 the publication of "Punctuated equilibria: an alternative to phyletic gradualism" by Stephen Gould (atheist) finally forced the scientific world to accept the reality that the fossil record does not show the gradual change over time that Darwin proposed.
    Instead, what the community was forced to acknowledge, is that the fossil record reflects stasis and rapid change.
    This supports the theistic evolutionist claim that God used natural processes to develop life on this earth, as pure chance can never explain the grand paroxysm of necessarily interrelated mutations that are required to occur to accomplish this rapid change.

    REPLY: fossils do not prove any god; they only prove that extinct animals not recorded in your bible really lived at some time in earth's history.
    CONCLUSION: NO PROOF OF ANY GOD IN FOSSILS.

    Origins of the universe
    For most of scientific history, the universe was thought to have always existed, directly refuting the theistic claim that the universe had a beginning, and a creator.

    Then, a series of discoveries resulted in a complete transformation of thought, we now know that our universe has not always existed, rather it had a beginning, confirming the theistic claim:
    - 1929: Edwin Hubble discovers red shift (the stars and planets are all moving away from each other. The universe is expanding in all directions)
    - 1965: discovery of microwave cosmic background radiation (the echo's of the big bang)
    - 1998, two independent research groups studying distant supernovae were astonished to discover, against all expectations, that the current expansion of the universe is accelerating (Reiss 1998, Perlmutter 1999).
    - 2003: Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin's Past-Finite Universe proves our universe had a beginning

    REPLY: no scientist worth his weight in salt would claim to know what caused the universe to be, they do however have the technology and intelligence to be able to see down to the nano-second what happen after the big bang.
    CONCLUSION: NO PROOF OF ANY GOD.

    Fine Tuning of the universe:
    In the past 30 or 40 years, scientists have been astonished to find that the initial conditions of our universe were fine-tuned for the existence of building blocks of life. Constants such as gravitational constant have been found, the variation of which to even the smallest degree, would have rendered the universe utterly incapable of supporting life.
    "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." – Paul Davies
    "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the mas ses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life – Stephen Hawking
    “As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” – Professor Freeman J. Dyson of the Insti tute for Advanced Study in Princeton
    Now, neither Davies or Hawking is a believer in God. They both believe in fine tuning, they just posit natural reasons for it.

    REPLY: the universe adheres to laws of phyics strictly because if it didn't there wouldn't be a universe. i could go into each and every law that is interconnected and how if even one on a large scale broke, well that would be the end for this universe. our universe is a stable system that maintains balance according to the laws governing it.
    CONCLUSION: NO PROOF OF ANY GOD HERE EITHER.

    Evidence from human experience
    - Objective morality exists
    - Free will exists (atheist/naturalist/determinist do not believe in free will)

    OBJECTIVE MORALITY: IS WELL OBJECTIVE, MEANING WHAT IS CORRECT AND INCORRECT BASED ON WHOM IS VIEWING THOSE ACTION. THAT IS WHAT OBJECTIVE IS, FLEXIBLE.
    FREE WILL: ATHEISTS DO BELIEVE IN FREE WILL, WE SIMPLY SHOW RELIGIOUS FOLKS THAT IF THEIR IS AN ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING , ALL PRESENT GOD IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE FREE WILL SEEING IT WOULD KNOW SINCE DAY ZERO WHAT YOU WOULD CHOOSE IN YOUR LIFE, THUS IT KNOWS EVERYTHING AND HAS A PLAN, THUS YOU CAN'T VIOLATE HIS PLAN. IF YOU COULD VIOLATE GOD'S PLAN THEN HE WOULDN'T BE ALL POWERFUL, NOR ALL KNOWING AND IF HE DIDN'T STOP YOU HE ISN'T ALL PRESENT.

    CONCLUSION....................... NO GODS. ZERO, ZIP, NADA, NONE.

    WE ARE ALONE DEAL WITH IT.

    February 26, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Polycarp

      REPLY: fossils do not prove any god; they only prove that extinct animals not recorded in your bible really lived at some time in earth's history.
      CONCLUSION: NO PROOF OF ANY GOD IN FOSSILS.------
      Because God is very much alive, as you are, with yourself

      February 26, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Polycarp, do you ever have an intelligent thought? Why aren't you posting any?

      February 26, 2013 at 9:00 pm |
    • End Religion

      polycarp, if your god ever lived surely he is dead now else we'd see some evidence. I mean, that silly twat you praise is not even as strong as Perseus, a true demi-god who at least did mankind the favour of getting rid of Medusa.

      February 27, 2013 at 7:02 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      The argument of a fine tuned universe is flawed from the get go. For instance the odds of being dealt 13 spades in a game of gin is extremely small but it is still exactly equal to the odds of getting any other combination of cards....even a total crap hand. Thus the odds for the balance of the forces in the universe is exactly the same as the odds that they were not balanced. The only difference being that we wouldn't be around to argue about it. In a multiverse where innumerable universes pop into existence it is inevitable that one or even many would exhibit the balance required to form a stable universe.

      February 27, 2013 at 7:43 am |
  18. Reality

    Giving to religious groups mostly Christian in 2010, totaled $95.8 billion. Please stop funding the Christian cons and send your donations to the Federal Government to help pay off our $16 trillion debt.

    "How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?

    There are two ways for you to make a contribution to reduce the debt:
    •You can make a contribution online either by credit card, checking or savings account at Pay.gov
    •You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Public Debt, and in the memo section, notate that it's a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:

    Attn Dept G
    Bureau of the Public Debt
    P. O. Box 2188
    Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188"

    February 26, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • ..

      Why? The Government is as big of a scam as organized religion! Helllllll no!

      February 26, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • Reality

      Just some examples where OUR money is being used by OUR government:

      Medicare, Medicaide, Social Security, Environmental Protection, Education, Homeland Security and Defense, Transportation Safety and Regulation, Securitiy Regulations, Communication Regulations, Worker Safety, Foreign Aide, The United Nations, NATO, et al.

      Then there is this:

      -Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles as of 09/15/2011/, 102,522 – 112,049 Iraqi civilians killed as of 9/16/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      - Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed mostly due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,

      - Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.

      - Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

      - North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.

      - Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

      - The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

      - – Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

      - Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols escaped the death penalty twice because of deadlocked juries. He was sentenced to 161 consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole,[3][7] and is incarcerated in ADX Florence, a super maximum security prison near Florence, Colorado. He shares a cellblock that is commonly referred to as "Bombers Row" with Ramzi Yousef and Ted Kaczynski

      - Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.

      - Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

      - Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.
      - The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war – charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

      The capture of Ratko Mladić: (Serbian Cyrillic: Ратко Младић, pronounced [râtkɔ mlǎːditɕ], born 12 March 1943[1][2]) is an accused war criminal and a former Bosnian Serb military leader. On May 31, 2011, Mladić was extradited to The Hague, where he was processed at the detention center that holds suspects for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).[3] His trial began on 3 June 2011.

      - the bloody terror brought about by the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

      - Bin Laden was executed for crimes against humanity on May 1, 2011

      - Ditto for Anwar al-Awlaki on September 30, 2011

      - Ditto for Abu Yahya al-Libi on June 5, 2012

      February 26, 2013 at 11:42 pm |
    • ..

      .......And your point? You don't think I pay enough intaxes? Or do you just like to post a bunch of crap nobody is going to read as some kind of ego stroke? I give enough of MY money to OUR government. Piss off.

      February 27, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.