By John L. Allen Jr., CNN Senior Vatican Analyst
Suffice it to say that of all possible storylines to emerge, heading into the election of a new pope, sensational charges of a shadowy "gay lobby" (possibly linked to blackmail), whose occult influence may have been behind the resignation of Benedict XVI, would be right at the bottom of the Vatican's wish list.
Proof of the Vatican's irritation came with a blistering statement Saturday complaining of "unverified, unverifiable or completely false news stories," even suggesting the media is trying to influence the papal election.
Two basic questions have to be asked about all this. First, is there really a secret dossier about a network of people inside the Vatican who are linked by their sexual orientation, as Italian newspaper reports have alleged? Second, is this really why Benedict XVI quit?
The best answers, respectively, are "maybe" and "probably not."
It's a matter of record that at the peak of last year's massive Vatican leaks crisis, Benedict XVI created a commission of three cardinals to investigate the leaks. They submitted an eyes-only report to the pope in mid-December, which has not been made public.
Just has the Daily Belief Blog gone? Perhaps the butler can shed some light on this question.
"Where has", not "Just has"
Do you really miss the daily repetition of the same stories from yesterday? I would have thought Topher was the only person who would miss it, as the nothing-to-talk-about hature of it allowed him the chance to make a daily fool of himself and his "Young Earth Creationist/Bible Totally True Even Noah" delusions.
Actually it did seem redundant. I was just "DJ'ing" a bit there (which I realize is, in itself, an oddity for a Belief Blog.. )
Perhaps I shall pop in on every third Pope story with a musical selection. Lol.
"Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.".....Standard Christian doctrine.
I miss the eclectic mix, and myweightinwords topic of the day.
Both were always good.
Ya wanna really know what is was like before the flood??? Then just watch......."Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
No one asked lol??, you fucking dipshit. Wish you would drown in your own hated, though.
So Popey changed the rules to accelerate Papal selection, did he?
He has an agenda here, but it isn't some phony "gay lobby." He is using his position to hand-select a hard-liner as his replacement. This is his political arrogance at work.
Hindu gay ism, filthy hind live ism, specially abuse of young boys is a holy tradition of hinduism corruption of truth absolute called Catholicism, compound of hinduism racism with Hebrew teachings to justify hindu Mithra ism, racist savior ism of hindu dark ages. Fore fathers of hinduism, racism, such as Plato etc propagated and practiced hindu criminal boy abuse and hindu gay ism, filthy hind love ism to be happy in life.
I would have no problem with an openly gay Pope. He would be less likely to hide the child abuse perpetrated by others to go unpunished if he was gay and not a guilty disgusting pedophile trying to save his own skin.
Dover Trial Transcripts
Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.
I like the way that the forcing of intelligent design into the curriculum not only failed in court, but all of the School Board members who came up for reelection (8 out of 9) lost their jobs.
Not Constitutional, not science, and not wanted by parents.
You nailed it Yeppers !
ID no GOOD !
Kee, you have a completely different view than do others who post about who will "live in Christ." If your god is the source of all "reality" then why the discrepancies? Why the confusion? If the Bible is so great as a guide, why aren't all of you who believe in agreement? And as your not, why hasn't your god made things clear to everyone so there is no confusion?
@If your god is the source of all "reality" then why the discrepancies?
Because we are not God.
@Why the confusion?
It is confusing.
@If the Bible is so great as a guide, why aren't all of you who believe in agreement?
The Bible is a means, not an end.
@And as your not, why hasn't your god made things clear to everyone so there is no confusion?
I don't know.
"The Bible is a means, not an end."
LOL yeah, created by humans to fulfill their agenda.
"@And as your not, why hasn't your god made things clear to everyone so there is no confusion?
I don't know."
So your god gives us sketchy information that is complicated to comprehend, if not impossible and yet you still think you have some understanding....OK......and this god expects us to set aside our reason and intellect and just accept the premise on faith and gets mad if we fail to do so. That is not a god worth worshipping even if he did exist.
@Blessed are the Cheesemakers
That is not what I was saying.
@ "and this god expects us to set aside our reason and intellect and just accept the premise on faith and gets mad if we fail to do so."
There is not a belief in a god that is based on reason and intellect. Many believers claim they believe for logical reasons but I have yet to actually find that their belief is reasonable.
@There is not a belief in a god that is based on reason and intellect.
There are over a million people with some kind of belief in God right now. And you don't think any of those are based on reason and intellect? None? How many people have you talked to about this? More than a 1/2 million?
"There are over a million people with some kind of belief in God right now"
While that is true, I feel failing to point out that roughly 80% of humans profess belief in some sort of deity, and there are currently just under 7 billion people on earth, so that means there are around 5.6 billion people who profess a belief in God. Was your number accurate? Yes, there are "over a million people" with some kind of belief in God, but you betray your ignorance in ball-parking such a relatively low number.
@ "Yes, there are "over a million people" with some kind of belief in God, but you betray your ignorance in ball-parking such a relatively low number."
I made a hypothetical case that there are over a million believers in God. And I asked if "Blessed are the Cheesemakers" had talked to at least 1/2 million people.
Now I guess he has talk to 2.8 billion people about their beliefs and to possibly even start to prove that nobody is using reason and intellect to believe in God.
"There is not a belief in a god that is based on reason and intellect."
Or else what he is saying is not based on reason or intellect. It is just speculation.
"There are over a million people with some kind of belief in God right now. And you don't think any of those are based on reason and intellect? None?"
First that is an argument from popularity, which is itself a fallacious argument. And yes, not one argument for belief in a god actually existing is based on sound reasoning that I have ever heard. Is god a possibilty? Yes. Are Aliens visiting earth a possibility? Yes. But neither are reasonable to BELIEVE without further information.
You can ask all 5.6 billion and they will all think they based their belief on reason and logic, and not a single one will be able to show you the path they took without filling in some giant holes with their faith. That is what faith is. It we had proof and evidence which is what reason and logic require in order to have a solid foundation we would have no need of faith. All 5.6 billion will speak of faith as if it's logical and reasonable, because they prefer to keep lying to themselves instead of doing the hard thing which is to challenge the status quo and themselves and ask why they believe what they believe and how they can be so sure that their parents who indoctrinated them or the church their parents took them to was the "right" faith. The largest factor in a persons faith is based on where they were born. Are you really so daft as to think the randomness as to where we were born would effect truth?
@blessed are the chessemakers
"There is not a belief in a god that is based on reason and intellect. "
@"First that is an argument from popularity, which is itself a fallacious argument. "
Nope. If there is just one human being alive that has a belief in God based on reason and intellect your statement is false.
And who's reason and intellect to we base this on? Yours? The people in power? Who?
And that person has yet to come forward with those reasons or evidences based on something other than faith.
@ And that person has yet to come forward with those reasons or evidences based on something other than faith.
Maybe that person lives in a small village in Afghanistan and maybe our armed forces just accidently bombed his hut. He may not be able to put up a nice website for you right now. But don't give up yet. He is still alive. He might survive to logically and reasonably describe a god that does what you think a god should do.
Merely asserting this person exists does not mean anything.
You are throwing out a red herring. If you want to argue that belief in a god is reasonable, then present your argument. Nit picking about whither there is some unknown person with some unknown argument that is completely reasonable in their belief in a god, and therefore saying I am wrong to assert otherwise is rediculous.
If I said "There is not a belief in an invisible unicorn that is based on reason and intellect. Many believers claim they believe for logical reasons but I have yet to actually find that their belief is reasonable."
Would you use the same argument against me? If not, why not?
@ Blessed are the Cheesemakers
@ Would you use the same argument against me? If not, why not?
No. You are throwing out a red herring, too.
"...........If I said "There is not a belief in an invisible unicorn that is based on reason and intellect......" Dude, did you learn your science on saturday morning cartoons?? "....Unicorns are not found in Greek mythology, but rather in accounts of natural history, for Greek writers of natural history were convinced of the reality of the unicorn, which they located in India, a distant and fabulous realm for them......"
"...The unicorn is a legendary animal from European folklore...." From wiki, ya lazy little blowhard. Fact and fiction?? bigot
It is not a red herring, the point is there is not enough evidence to reasanably believe in unicorns, there is also not enough evidence to believe in a god. If you think I am wrong present you argument.
As usual you fail to make a coherent point. You also do not understand the meaning of "bigot". I am not intolerant of your belief, I just don't agree with it. As much as you want to play "martyr" disagreement does not equal hate. I would fight against anyone who tried to legislate against any belief, or for any belief.
There is convincing evidence for me to believe in God. I'm not sure if I can convince a skeptical anonymous poster on a blog's comment section. But I'm going to continue to trust in God, not you. No offense.
Kee = Chad = fred
I never asked you to trust in me and you would be a fool to do so without further information. I said the belief in god is not based on reason and intellect. At some point religious faith is required to complete the equation. You said I was wrong but offered nothing in defense of your position. And you are absolutely correct, your personal revelation would do nothing to convince me, you would need to be able to demonstrat what you say is true, and that is something no theist has ever been able to do.
@ you would need to be able to demonstrat what you say is true, and that is something no theist has ever been able to
Oh, Ok, you are just talking about yourself personally.
No theist has ever been able to demonstrate what they say is true to you.
But they have been able to demonstrate it to other people. Just not you.
So you consider yourself an intellectual? Are you too smart to believe in God?
"No theist has ever been able to demonstrate what they say is true to you. But they have been able to demonstrate it to other people. Just not you."
Theists demonstrate the false truth of their "revelation" in the same way a good card trick demonstrates to some that one is a sorcerer. There are simply some very gullible people running around who will believe any superstitious crap is somehow miraculous.
"But they have been able to demonstrate it to other people. Just not you."
No they haven't, they were able to get them to accept the claim, they didn't "demonstrat" anything, People are easly conned.
I used to believe in god. It through trying to determine which religious claims were correct and which were false that I realized they were all based in conjecture and opinion. What I find interesting is religious faith is ususally held as a virtue among theists. Then when it is pointed out that relying on religious faith requires the suspension of ones reasoning and intellect you cry foul. You can't have it both ways.
@Tom, Tom, the Other One
@ Sorry, I meant "supposed". Beliefs, if you hope to share them and inspire people with them, should have some evidence to support them.
Am I on trial here? Do I need to support a defense? Is there something listed under "Terms of Service" that states I must prove God to people who don't know about him?
Nope. There are countless of other people who believe in God. We don't have to test each other to discuss God. We just share the peace and love.
No, you're not on trial. Good thing for you.
"We just share the peace and love."
You don't need a God to obtain peace and love.
Kee: " There are countless of other people who believe in God. We don't have to test each other to discuss God. "
First statement – true. Last statement – you will be tested – count on it.
"There are countless of other people who believe in God. We don't have to test each other to discuss God. We just share the peace and love."
No, your religion does not. Your religion breeds intolerance and tears at the fabric of peace and love the world over.
It's the same for the members of The Flat Earth Society. They have also decided to forego any tests of their faith that the planet is flat. They prefer to just share in the love and joy that comes from believing we are all on the same plane, litterally...
"It is my great pleasure to officially reopen the Flat Earth Society to new members! While our Flat Earth Society forums have been a thriving online community since 2004, official membership in the Society has not been available since the passing of the last president, Charles K. Johnson. For more information about the reopening of the Society and the launch of this website, please have a look at our press release." – flatearthsociety.org
That link doesn't work.
Kee, the link only works for those who have enough true faith. If it doesn't work for you that just means you are doing it wrong.
God in Quran says, (Islamic scripture)
“They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims.” Quran [6:100]
“The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.” Quran [3:59]
‘They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say, "We follow the religion of Abraham – monotheism – he never was an idol worshiper." [2:135]
“Proclaim, He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him." [112:1]
The Messiah, son of Mary is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate! [5:75]
It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is. [19:35]
“No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. ... [35:18]
O people, here is a parable that you must ponder carefully: the idols you set up beside God can never create a fly, even if they banded together to do so. Furthermore, if the fly steals anything from them, they cannot recover it; weak is the pursuer and the pursued. [22:73]
They do not value God as He should be valued. God is the Most Powerful, the Almighty.[22:74]
If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess. [Quran 6:116]
Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to clear your misconception by going to whyIslam org website.
Why would Hobby Lobby care if the Pope resigns?
“Even as all die in Adam, even so, all live in Christ." (I Cor. 15:22).
All. Not just the heteros<xuals. Not just the Catholics. Not just the believers.
I will not "die in Adam" whatever that is supposed to mean, and I absolutely do not live in christ.
I live in reality and will die there as well.
“Even as all die (except Richard because he just said so) in Adam, even so, all live in Christ. Even Richard" (I Cor. 15:22).
-Revised CBB 2013 Bible
The bible was written by men, no god required.
Your "scriptures" are wrong.
Don't believe everything you read.
What the crap does that even mean? Die in Adam?
Anyway what your saying is delusional and you should seek help.
Jesus Christ loves this man. And so should I. Peace and best to you.
"die in Adam" We've all been cursed by God.
Jesus christ, if he even ever existed, died 2000 years ago, and nothing dead has love.
Your bible is a book of stories and myths.
Try reality...it works much better.
@ Richard Cranium
Jesus Christ did live. He died and was resurrected. He still lives.
Who decides what reality is? You? The majority? The elitists? The smartest? The richest? Sounds like something only a god can do.
"Your bible is a book of stories and myths."
Wrong. It is a collection of books. It includes stories, myths & genealogies, proverbs, parables, songs, poetry, history, laws and much more.
It is not my bible. It is your bible, too. It is referenced in our society's most prized arts and literature.
"Who decides what reality is? ... Sounds like something only a god can do."
And yet, it sounds like something that *you* are doing...
(by deciding to accept the claims of Paul of Tarsus and other 1st century cult writers as 'reality').
Really?...who decides what reality is?. No one. reality is all that is real. Though your bible itself is real, the stories an myths it contains are not.
You can choose to believe what is written within its pages, but since there is no logical nor reasonable cause to do so, your belief is nothing more than delsusion, and delusion is not reality.
Your bible has helped you to create a virtual world, where jesus is god, who loves all (except he does have a habit out of killing masses of people, and allows suffering of innocents and would of course condemn all to hell if you haven't heard of him. If that to you is love, you are truly a sad individual.)
Cursed by god? die in adam ? I don't get it.
This god person does not sound nice if he/she wants to curse me, I don't think I want to be his/her friend.
"Sounds like something only a god can do."
Which god? Only your god? Or any god at all? How do you know it's something "only a god can do"?
What nonsense. Reality is what is real-not myths, not fairy tales, not created stories. If you can't tell the difference, Kee, that's not my problem.
"Jesus Christ did live." No, there was no man named "Jesus Christ" as "Christ" simply means "anointed" and there is no way that even if there was a carpenters son named Jesus who was a prophet, that anyone ever refered to him as "Jesus Christ" or "Jesus Messiah".
But the real question should be, did Adam live? If not, then there is and was and never will be a need for the ransom sacrafice. And the fact is that Adam was an invention of Moses who based him on the Egyptian creation myth of Atum he learned as a Prince of Egypt at the same time he was taught to read, write and reason. Therefore, the whole premise of "original sin" is bogus and thus there is, was and never will be a need for some other human to die just so you can fell less guilty about being d i c k s to your fellow humans.
Wow, sounds like you got me all figured out after just a few posts. Are you using psyhcic power or stereotyping?
@This god person does not sound nice if he/she wants to curse me, I don't think I want to be his/her friend.
We are born to die. Physically, not spiritually.
@the whole premise of "original sin" is bogus
The prase "original sin" does not appear in the Genesis origin story. What do you think "original sin" means? I don't know.
@ Which god? Only your god? Or any god at all? How do you know it's something "only a god can do"?
God. The creator of this world (creator as in still creating).
@ What nonsense. Reality is what is real-not myths, not fairy tales, not created stories. If you can't tell the difference, Kee, that's not my problem.
I can tell the difference.
Obviously you can't, dear, or you wouldn't have said that only a god can figure it out.
I'm not the one claiming exclusive understanding of reality. I'm saying we live in a world filled with over a billion people and over a billion concepts of reality.
All I asked is who defines this reality? The richest? The poorest? The elitist? The enslaved? Or a god? To me, it sounds like something only a god can do.
Isn't God suppose to equip believers to account for the belief that they have? They need a grasp of logic and facts, and the ability to communicate effectively. God's not really doing very well.
There are no such thing as psychics, and I do not care what type of stereo you have.
Your posts allow a person with substantial psychology training read you easily.
@Isn't God suppose to equip believers to account for the belief that they have?
No. Without love, beliefs are worthless.
"All I asked is who defines this reality? The richest? The poorest? The elitist? The enslaved? Or a god? To me, it sounds like something only a god can do."
And you just said that you knew the difference between reality and fairy tales. So which is it? Either you can know what is real, or you can't. Are you a god?
Sorry, I meant "supposed". Beliefs, if you hope to share them and inspire people with them, should have some evidence to support them.
@Your posts allow a person with substantial psychology training read you easily.
Thanks for your analysis. I'm glad I don't have to pay $200/hour for this.
@Mass D, Kee: The belief was built so that both ends support each other. But obviously there are plenty of holes throughout to suspect it's all mythology. A tell-tale sign that "in the beginning" is likely mythology is that, just as in Christianity, Judaism also has factions of very differing views on the "reality" of the historical OT. Neither religion can avoid the obvious conflicted nature of those views. As for the "end-result" for Christianity – the Christ character, that too has much to be questioned. Gospels of unknown authorship – writings that look so oddly like earlier pagan stories that the several early Christian apologists (including Justin Martyr) had to come up with perhaps the most odd excuse for the apparent plagiarism: diabolical mimicry. They said that the devil planned and disseminated the earlier "fake" stories first. Plagiarism in anticipation. So even if there is reasonable evidence by several historical writers that there was some man named Jesus, there is plenty reason to suspect there is something fishy about the gospel stories.
(and thus reason to suspect all of the supernatural claims for Jesus)
"The prase "original sin" does not appear in the Genesis origin story. What do you think "original sin" means? I don't know."
Oh please, are you trying the "original moron" defense?. Let's try some basics.
Original: Adjective: Used or produced at the creation or earliest stage of something. Noun: Something serving as a model or basis for imitations or copies
Sin: Noun: An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. Synonyms: trespass – guilt – offense – transgression.
Genesis does not contain the phrase "original sin" and you feign ignorance of what I am talking about. And yet you claim your new God Jesus can "save" mankind from the sin of Adam which by most Christians account was considered the first or "original" sin and then passed down through all humans. I am saying you are full of shlt and there was no Adam and Eve as the bible describes them and they didn't eat any forbidden fruit and are not passing on some divine plague to their children, and if there is no invisible plague then there is no reason for any blood ransom. Besides, what kind of nut is able to create the universe but then is unable to wipe away his own invented sin without sending himself to die to pay himself the bribe to let mankind off the hook. It's beyond idiotic, it's complete nonsense.
Consider it pro bono.
Like doctors that go to poor countries to fix hairlips and such free of charge, sometimes you see cases where the need of the subject (you) outweigh the needs or expected gratuity. of the observer( me).
Reality is difficult to cope with at times so I can understand why you need to hide in your storybook land, but it is not healthy.
In the Genesis story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden: There is no mention of sin. Or a fall. Or Satan. Or Temptation. And no apple.
But there is mention of a curse. That is why I was asking the person to clarify about 'original sin'.
Wow you really are disingenuous aren't you.
Original sin, cursed by God, invisible spirit plague, I don't care what you call it, it's fvcking phony!! Wake up you moron, the semantics of it make absolutely no difference when you are making the claim that humanity has some divine infection when you have failed to prove anything we would define as divine even exists. Go play your religious word jumble by yourself if you don't want to debate why your idea of an inborn curse on humanity is preposterous. And like I said, if the curse is fabricated and total garbage then so is your Jesus.
Also of note when looking at the Adam and Eve story are their ages, which when looked at with the evidence of humans we have like bone flutes dating back some 45,000 years, there is evidence that they had similar life spans as more modern humans with evidence of their life expectancy at around 45 to 50 years which is consistant with many ancient cultures of nomadic tribes. This is very interesting since the bible claims our ancestors had extremely long lives up intil the flood account when God abruptly adjusts humans age from 700 to 800 years as many supposedly lived according to Moses, down to only 70 or 80 years at most. So the long and short of Genesis is, God made the 13.7 billion year old universe in 6 days and Adam lived 930 years and by extrapolating backwards from Noah to Adam we can see that all supposedly happened about 8600 years ago...give or take a thousand years. And thats the book you are going to stick with and say "This is the truth, this is fact, this is reallity, I will base my life on this book and my childrens lives because I believe it that much, even though none of it matches what science has uncovered about human origins."
It is an origin STORY. And you call me a moron.
"This is the truth, this is fact, this is reallity, I will base my life on this book and my childrens lives because I believe it that much, even though none of it matches what science has uncovered about human origins."
You think that is what I believe? You are moronic. Good bye.
@Kee = "You think that is what I believe? You are moronic. Good bye."
If I mistakenly put any words in your mouth, then I apologize. However, from the first post of yours I had seen you seemed to group yourself with those who do think of the bible as fact.
Kee – “Even as all die in Adam, even so, all live in Christ." (I Cor. 15:22).
All. Not just the heteros<xuals. Not just the Catholics. Not just the believers."
My point to you is, no one died in Adam for a literal Adam did not exist, therefore there is no need to live in Christ.
Metaphorically speaking. Not literally.
So you believe in a metaphoric Adam but a literal Jesus? So Genesis and everything Moses wrote in the wilderness was metaphor and allegory but Jesus came and paid a literal blood ransom for the metaphorical Adam? Or are you saying you take the things which don't make sense and seem fantastical and don't jive with science as metaphor but things which either science hasn't disproved or are about Jesus you take as literal fact? That seems a bit too convenient and a little like saying "This is truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me God ... truths subject to change on Gods whim, and oh, by the way, when we say God's whim that is defined as whatever we decide to define it as."
It's the standard "The bible says whatever I want it to say in the way I want it to be because I said so".
@So you believe in a metaphoric Adam but a literal Jesus? So Genesis and everything Moses wrote in the wilderness was metaphor and allegory but Jesus came and paid a literal blood ransom for the metaphorical Adam? Or are you saying you take the things which don't make sense and seem fantastical and don't jive with science as metaphor but things which either science hasn't disproved or are about Jesus you take as literal fact? That seems a bit too convenient and a little like saying "This is truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me God ... truths subject to change on Gods whim, and oh, by the way, when we say God's whim that is defined as whatever we decide to define it as."
"1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve."............Standard Christian doctrine. And no, she didn't pop out of his forehead like yer little Athena with her version of Greek S*E*X*.
For your consideration:
Both sides of the god debate make little effort to understand the other side on this blog. It may be beneficial for most if you did.
In my experience with the people I interact with I have found that intellect and rationality are not strongly correlated to belief/nonbelief in god. Granted, I deal with engineers, mathematicians, and scientists, but most believe in god, go to worship, etc. Most of them are very smart and extraordinarily rational (one of the most rational is Mormon).
I have found that the common areas of disagreement come from basic differences in how we interpret the meaning of key words. Theory, fact, truth, etc. The word fact is treated differently in science than it is in philosophy than it is in law than it is by lay people. If these differences are ignored, people assume the other side is irrational or thick.
As an engineer I am trained to think more like a scientist, but I am not satisfied to be limited by science. There is so much science has only scratched the surface on (esp. In life sciences, complexi dynamic systems, etc) and will not have a handle on in my lifetime. So I am willing to speculate and embrace belief of the unknown along with science of the known. I happen to believe there is no god (very unscientific). I speculate that there is a fully natural explanation of the universe and man's ability to perceive it and experience wonder. That belief has let me go so far beyond the agnostic thinking with great pleasure.
I have found that trying to understand the believe in god folks has enriched my views and ways to think about the world.
Unfortunately we are in a struggle with believers who want to revise history, science, even logic and philosophy through falsehoods and false reasoning to not only maintain a place for their beliefs within themselves, but to enable them to spread to other people..
@Bostonola: "In my experience with the people I interact with I have found that intellect and rationality are not strongly correlated to belief/nonbelief in god" – that's the problem withanecdotal evidence : many many studies have found a clear and pronounced inverse relationship between religiousity and intelligence.
The side with the worst record of torturing the meanings of words and committing the fallacy of equivalency are Christians. Nobody tortures those word more than creationists, and nobody gets it wrong more either. Sorry, but deconstructionist games don't fly.
Oh well, no matter how smart and intelligent one may be, I know beyond any doubt that an Intelligent Designer must have created all things in the universe. I believe that Designer to be the Lord God Almighty of the holy bible. The bible is an accurate historical account of ancient Israel and the middle east. It is not made of man's imaginations but inspired by God to record events throughout middle eastern history. Remember what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 12:30 which says:
" Anyone who isn't helping Me opposes Me, and anyone who isn't working with Me is actually working against Me."
Obviously, God has given all of us free will, to accept and deny Him. However, we will all be judged by Christ some day. God bless...
"Oh well, no matter how smart and intelligent one may be, I know beyond any doubt"
Proof of exactly what was stated above: there is an inverse relationship between intelligence and education and belief.
You don't "know" anything of the sort, CC. You simply don't. You believe.
My sample is biased as I said but still supports my point.
@ "God has given all of us free will, to accept and deny Him."
So it is up to us, not just Jesus Christ, whether we are saved? Why did he die then? To save all of God's creation? Or just those who are capable to believe the correct thing?
Jesus died because the Romans executed him, and that is really all there is to it.
@center: "Obviously, God has given all of us free will, to accept and deny Him."
please explain how an ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL GOD can allow "free will."
think about it logically; if god knows EVERYTHING he knows exactly what you will do and when and how and why, so there is no free will if he can already know before the dawn of man what type of person you will be.
here is another odd thing about "god" if he has a plan, then how do you explain clairavoyance?
if someone can see "god's plan" by seeing future events then they can alter "god's plan" by knowing what will happen.
not to mention the straightout insanity of thinking your groups begging and pleading to this all powerful being will change his mind, it's absolutely hilarious. if and that a big IF, your god was to be real then before anything was ever created he has already set things up the way he likes them, so no amount of pleading (aka prayer) will change his plans. if you are to die then you will die according to it's whim, regardless of how much your family prays over your bedside.
face the facts there is no god/s etc etc etc. they are merely stories from uneducated tribesmen from way back in history.
Only a biased sample would support your point. Are you really unaware of all the studies on the matter, and what they have found? Are you really a science-based professional such as yourself who just didn't bother to do a bit of preliminary research, and instead chose a methodology that you must know is extremely unreliable?
Here's the issue. Science and faith look at two totally seperate things.
Using science to try and "prove God" is like trying to see stars using a microscope.
Science studies the natural universe, faith explores the supernatural universe. Now, there are those who don't believe the supernatural universe exists. Fine, don't believe. But trying to use science to prove something other than the natural world is trying to put a round peg in a square hole. It just simply doesn't work.
That's a stunningly bad analogy. If you cannot in any way prove something even exists, why waste time on it? If you cannot show that your evidence-free version is correct, then how do you know that the other evidence-free assertions are incorrect?
@ The Bottom Line
@ If you cannot in any way prove something even exists, why waste time on it?
You've proved God doesn't exist?
"Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."...........If that doesn't work then you must be S.O.L.
You insult my analogy, yet you cannot rebuff my actual statement, that being that science is the study of the natural world and faith is the study of the supernatural world.
Concluding that God doesn't exist, based on a lack of evidence, is actually the logical fallacy of argument from silence. Where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence. It's also appeal to ignorance, that being, that something cannot be true because there is no evidence to support it.
I don't think you got the point. Understanding the other position can open you to new way to see things. There are plenty of intelligent believers in god to get good ideas.
34th article about the pope and 40+ about the catholic church since the pope annouced his resignation. This is getting old CNN, get some new material.
Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.
Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill would not is not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well and don't want to violate their beliefs.
Recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.
One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.
One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".
One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.
On sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.
Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.
Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?
Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):
Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.
Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):
If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.
Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
Thank God for Jesus.
Christianity itself provides plenty reason to rationally consider that Jesus of the gospel sense never existed.
@ Oh Kay
Only in the deluded minds of believers, which could be seen as a form of insanity.
D. C. has the greatest percentage pop of gays. Ya think they're practicin' any Sodomite Socialist bullyin'?? bigots
You would know where the most gays live.
Some places require constant applications of Rain-X on the windshield. So many swarms, errr parades.
Wishful thinking, lollypoop"?
Clean yer windshield, Pipe? 5 bucks at da light.
lol??, it is not for you to judge out gay brothers and sisters.
Matthew 7 (NIV)
7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
As usual, the Cowardly Liar just makes sh!t up to fit his agenda.
Stalker rail, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States
Dude, you didn't even read your own link, did you ? What a lying piece of sh!t you are.
Clean yer windshield, rail, $25,000,000??................."Top States Ranked by Percentage" and it's numero uno. You are a nasty little bigot.
Read the whole story, you cowardly piece of sh!t. You didn't, did you ? You just cherry-picked the one piece of information that supported your agenda. Gee, there's a surprise coming from an honest (?) contemporary Christian.
Prayer changes things
Take your meds. Pray without seizing.
Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!
CORRECTION: Prayer has never had any effect whatsoever on objective reality. It might "change things" for the person doing the praying ... making them feel better or something ... but that's it.
Oh please. What's next, CNN? An article claiming the illuminati are behind it?
So CNN is reporting on rumors now?
they are reporting rumors as such. do you have a problem with that?
It's fine if you are the National Enquirer ...
If it bothers you, Gopher, don't read it. Besides, you're not much for facts anyway, so what do you care?
They are not presenting it as fact. Unbunch yer panties, Topher
I didn't say they presented it as fact. I'm saying it's bad journalism.
Are you an authority on journalism, too?
Topher, Google it. Of COURSE the Vatican is saying it's rumors. Other people say it isn't...Priests caught with male prostitutes? Couldn't happen, huh? Oh, never. Priest are above reproach aren't they?
What do YOU know about journalism, bad or otherwise, Gopher?
Yeah, Gopher hates it when news organizations report the FACT that there are rumors about the reasons for the pope's resignation. I'm sure he'd have objected to Woodward and Bernstein's coverage of Watergate, too.
I'm not here sticking up for the Catholics. I think what they teach is heresy and anti-Biblical. I'm just saying that reporting rumors is bad. It's essentially gossip.
TTtPS, of course, since the source was code-named "Deep Throat", lol.
Topher, the Guardian UK has more on this story.
All news is unsubstantiated (rumor) until further evidence comes to light.
This is the way of journalism.
so is the new testament, topher
So, based on your lack of any cogent response, Gopher, it's safe to say you know nothing about journalism; let me help you out. There isn't a thing wrong with reporting the FACT that there ARE rumors. You apparently can't read well, as you failed to notice that the article SAYS the rumors are likely unsubstantiated and are nothing but rumors.
Do you ever use your head for anything other than a place to put your hat?
TTPS: You are a-s-suming that Topher read the article?
A&A's are the only people willin' to die fer rumours. OOOOpps, correction, almost forgot the paparazzi cousins of theirs.
Topher seems willing to base his life on rumors. He is not willing to die for them, though. Blabbing to other people about what god is and what god wants is one thing, taking that big step to go meet Jeebus is another
I can understand why Topher doesn't want to go meet Jeebus. Much safer here on earth than up there, dealing with that manipulative pr1ck god he worships
All religion is nothing but rumors, Topher. You know, talk with no evidence that it's true.
TBL: Of course Topher's god is real. Just ask him (Topher).
Did Anderson Cooper make you guys put this here?
I hope you did not pay anyone for this "news".
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.