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February 27th, 2013
11:35 AM ET

Fill in the blank: Jesus is____

(CNN)– Justin Bieber's pastor, Judah Smith, says his book 'Jesus Is" challenges people to have a discussion about who Jesus was.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Jesus

soundoff (2,732 Responses)
  1. MrHighMighty

    Jesus is The Eternal Slavemaster.
    Deal with it, and get used to it.

    March 1, 2013 at 12:46 am |
    • CasStrid

      Not true my friend. I follow Jesus and he is my best friend. A slave master he certainly is not. He is savior and judge – definitely not slave master.

      March 1, 2013 at 1:45 am |
    • sam stone

      that's too bad, CasTrated, a best friend who is only in your head.

      March 1, 2013 at 3:11 am |
    • MrHighMighty

      @samstone: I'm sure by your terms "in your head" you really mean in your conscioussness, and of course that is where Christians relate to Jesus. He doesn't walk the earth now, so where else could the relationship exist? God created man in His image, meaning we all have an eternal consciousness, and it is not part nor dependent of our physical body. So your mocking of CasStrid's awareness of the love of Christ is only re-stating the obvious that he enjoys a relationship with Christ in spirit.

      @CasStrid, my point is that God delivered you and me to Christ, who paid for our sins with His blood. Jesus lived a sinless life as a man, He lived in a way that Adam failed, and yet He let sinful men disgrace, torture, and kill him. As God's Son, He had the choice and power at any time to stop the torture, to stop the pain, and to stop the death, but His love for us was greater. By His sacrifice, Jesus owns us now, and always will. And Scripture tells us He is a loving Slavemaster.

      Every day I praise God for the joy and peace He provides by pulling me from the pit in which the bitter and fearful atheists on this blog show themselves to be mired, denying the authority of their Creator in the same way Satan told Eve, and rejecting Christ's offer of salvation from our fallen state. But hey, at least those atheists are here, reading a Belief blog, and through Christ there is hope even for the most vile of men.

      March 2, 2013 at 1:06 am |
    • End Religion

      Christianity: The belief that a Cosmic Winged Jewish Zombie, who is his own Father and virtuously r@ped his own 12 year old mother, can make you live forever in some other dimension if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood while telepathically telling him that you accept him as your Master so that he will remove an evil force from your soul, which is present in all humanity because a woman he made out of one rib bone and a mound of dirt was tricked into eating fruit from a magical tree by a talking snake.

      March 2, 2013 at 1:41 am |
  2. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    You know, you'd think if the universe's origin had been definitively ascertained, everyone would know it. If it had been determined exactly if, when, or how all came to be, Chad wouldn't need to be here to pound away on the subject. That he is and feels the need to assert his beliefs so vociferously seems to me to indicate just how tenuous his position is on this subject.

    I wonder who Chard's trying to convince. Sometimes I think he's just trying to convince himself that what he beliefs is a fact.

    It isn't.

    March 1, 2013 at 12:29 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Believes, not beliefs.

      March 1, 2013 at 12:30 am |
    • fred

      I believes yous da pot callen da kettle black

      March 1, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
  3. Reality

    Jesus WAS an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    March 1, 2013 at 12:16 am |
    • o

      You chose to be convinced by Satan

      March 1, 2013 at 12:31 am |
    • End Religion

      No such creature as Satan.

      March 1, 2013 at 12:38 am |
  4. John

    When something is so obvious that it can't possibly be denied, right in front of your face, when it's clearly been done by God... how can you deny it? There is an entire universe out there that showed up all at once, and never again. The claim is that "nothing" did that, but we all know it was not "nothing"... it was God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, his words proved he is the source of it, no one else knew what he knew, or said what he said, before it was known. He's the only one that could have said it, and the only one that could have done it.

    February 28, 2013 at 11:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How do come to the conclusion that the only possibility is the one YOU happened to like?

      March 1, 2013 at 12:14 am |
    • Reality

      John,

      Au contraire!!

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

      The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

      March 1, 2013 at 12:19 am |
    • Religion is

      Superstition!

      So where did god come from? Did he just show up all at once? That's the trouble with you religies. You go for this peculiar two-stage miracle where one will do. There are many plausible natural explanations for the universe, no god needed. Why do you believe in the more complex scenario?

      March 1, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • John

      Tom, God's word proves who he is, and when he is active, it's overwhelmning that he's God.

      R, you are posting lies against God and you don't even realize how wrong the content is, but it's what you wanted.

      RI, don't be so gullible. The universe started all the sudden, and never did again, that requires a controller: God

      And people, my desktop is still sitting here without a formed universe on it, no matter, no energy... what's taking so long for nothing to do it? Isn't it easy to do? It's so easy nothing can do it never again... ever... even when prompted by someone believing God.

      Think people, think.

      March 1, 2013 at 7:28 am |
    • 6666666666666

      John time to......

      Ditch Adam and Eve the fake origin story.

      March 1, 2013 at 7:45 am |
    • John

      Did you fail history?

      March 1, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • Saraswati

      Whenever you find yourself about to use to use the word "obvious" stop and consider that you are probably going to say something very stupid.

      March 1, 2013 at 8:45 am |
  5. clarity

    Isn't Austin the one who is dreaming all the time? I think he once said he had a dream of a chupacabra that came in and stole his baby or some kind of nonsense, but then he claimed he woke up and there was blood everywhere. We need to hook up Austin with John so that John can help him triangulate out of these nasty dreams somehow.

    February 28, 2013 at 11:19 pm |
    • John

      The atheist dogma: "because God did something, either claim nothing did it, or deny it happened"

      An entire universe of matter and energy shows up all at once and never again – nothing did it? How so? If it's so easy to make an entire universe of matter and energy... do do it again... on my desktop... right now. I won't mind, go ahead "nothing", right here on my desktop, I'll clear a space.... OK, go for it....

      February 28, 2013 at 11:44 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @John,
      "If it's so easy to make an entire universe of matter and energy... do do it again... on my desktop... right now. I won't mind, go ahead "

      That's precisely what I just did 5 minutes ago, and implanted your brain with a lifetime of memories making you believe everything that you know has been here since the dawn of time... which I repeat, was 5 minutes ago. Want to see me do it again?

      February 28, 2013 at 11:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, how do you know that it "never" happened again? How do you know that there aren't other planets in the universe that have life? How do you know that when nobody else does?

      March 1, 2013 at 12:13 am |
    • Religion is

      Superstition!

      John is beginning to sound like the typical biblewashed religie. And a bit of an asshole to boot.

      March 1, 2013 at 12:37 am |
    • sam stone

      Atheists do not believe in any gods, Johnnie boy, are we moving to fast for you?

      Christian dogma "If good happened, credit god, if bad happened, blame satan".

      Pretty much accurate, punk?

      March 1, 2013 at 7:55 am |
    • John

      Tom, the atheist claim is that if God formed the universe, that they would replace God with nothing, and skip God. Well, when was the last time you saw nothing do anything? Me neither... I have never seen nothing do anything. And the universe starting or having a start, requires a controller and lots of energy to separate the stuff in the equation:

      0 = 1 – 1

      When science expects to separate the 1's, to get a univese, to have nothing forming it all, that's right, it takes energy to keep the 1's apart, to separate them, and that's God's energy.

      God's words are correct, and when he likes to overwhelm someone, he does. History is filled with him doing that. Science is wrong and lying, plain and simple, 'cuz nothing never made anything... but they keep saying it does when it doesn't.

      March 1, 2013 at 7:58 am |
    • sam stone

      Johnnie boy, when did you hear an athiest say "if god did......"

      Athiests do not believe in god.

      While we are at it, how do you make the logical leap from a possible creator to the certainty of (your) god?

      March 1, 2013 at 8:03 am |
    • John

      Sam, unless you can get nothing to do something, it's a waste of time to believe nothing does anything. My desktop is waiting if you want to have a go at forming a universe on it... anywhere on it, go ahead... or tell nothing to do it, which ever.

      For you? The sun became as black sackcloth of hair... it came true some months ago. Otherwise, God has not been slack in making sure I have no doubt he's there. And since you won't believe me, just read the bible, take your pick of all the eye witnesses telling you. Believe them first, or it won't work.

      March 1, 2013 at 8:20 am |
    • sam stone

      i see that Johnnnie boy is doing a great Gopher impression, of running like a coward when challenged on his drivel.

      March 1, 2013 at 8:20 am |
    • sam stone

      universes are formed over billions of years. don't be such a disengenuous coward.

      while we are at it, how do you make that logical leap from the possibility of a creator to the certainty your "god"?

      March 1, 2013 at 8:25 am |
    • End Religion

      John, the problem is you cleared a triangular space on your desk. Everyone knows the universe is infinitely rectangular.

      March 1, 2013 at 8:30 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @John
      Yes yes. Darwin is the anti-christ, Copernicus was a heretic. Giordano Bruno's punishment was fitting – if you say that the sun is a star, you get burned at the stake. Michael Servetus deserved his immolation too. Mr. Scientist and theologan thinks he's so smart by figuring out how the heart works that he forgets that it's Jesus that makes it beat with His Love.
      Scientists try to impress everyone with their fancy mathmetical formulae – but numbers aren't words so they don't mean anything.
      If God had wanted mankind to know about cosmic background radiation, quantum mechanics or the interplay of light, energy and gravity He would have told a Prophet by replaying a message via fiery shrub or talking donkey or whatnot.

      March 1, 2013 at 8:31 am |
    • sam stone

      "Believe them first, or it won't work"

      Ah, the old "you need to believe in order to believe" circular schtick

      Fine logic you got there, Johnnie boy.

      March 1, 2013 at 8:31 am |
    • Ted

      @John

      The xtian dogma: "because something that we don’t understand happened, either claim god did it, or deny it happened"

      An entire universe of matter and energy shows up all at once and never again – god did it? How so? If it's so easy to make an entire universe of matter and energy... do do it again... on my desktop... right now. I won't mind, go ahead "god", right here on my desktop, I'll clear a space.... OK, go for it....

      March 1, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
  6. clarity

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill would not is not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well and don't want to violate their beliefs.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    February 28, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Currently reading "Se.x at Dawn." If you haven't read it already, I highly recommend it.

      February 28, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
    • Mikie

      I have a question for all followers, if there is a GOD (as many believe) why are there so many sects and different ways to worship and live a wholesome life and find the meaning of life and into the kingdom of heaven. Why kill mankind in the name of their beliefs??? It just seams no one has the answer to the question, "why can't we all live as one with the world".
      This is coming from a USMC that has see death in the name of what?

      March 2, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
  7. GodFreeNow

    @GodFreedMe_help – Sorry for the late reply. I'm on the other side of the planet.
    "You, GodFreeNow will be a part of this reality. Whilst on earth, you decide where you will go."

    Well, it seems you have a very flexible definition of "reality." For the record, mine is: 1 the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them

    You make the mistake that many religious people make in assuming that I've never been where you are. I grew up in a church and baptist school which is why I have most of the bible committed to memory. At one point, I believed with all of my heart as you do. I thought that anyone who couldn't believe this must not be interpreting it right or with the right heart. After all, that's part of the indoctrination. What I feel for you is a mixture of sadness and sympathy.

    I understand the attraction of the god pleasure response. It's not unlike eating cake and equally fattening to your psyche and emotional state. Letting go of god can be a long and painful process, but your mind and body will thank you.

    Remember, believing something doesn't make it true. Many people believing something, doesn't make it true. You, like all other humans including atheist suffer from a kinship complex. That's why the atheist community and scientists open themselves up to review by evidence, as opposed to review by association. If history has taught us anything consistently, it's that most of the people are wrong most of the time. We should be very selective and skeptical in our pursuit of the truth. I hope you have a moment in your life where you can lift your eyes from the book that you hold so precious and realize that the true beauty and truth of life is all around you. It's not an idea or ideal. It's not a method or practice. It's an experience. As your book tells you... life is a vapor. Don't waste it on fantasies.

    February 28, 2013 at 9:02 pm |
    • lol??

      Don't waste your __________. Wait, wait, whatever you have was given to you, ingrate bigot.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The ignorant one here is you, lollypoop. Your posts are never anything but drivel. Why are you even here? Try to have an unexpressed thought, would you?

      February 28, 2013 at 9:51 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @lol??,
      I desperately await a cogent or sensible remark from you so that I can engage you on an intellectual level, but sadly I fear it is time wasted. I may disagree with many of the posters here, but there is at least a stream of consciousness to make a way for 2 opinionated persons to exchange information in debate or self-exploration. But when I read your posts, they're so devoid of substance, it makes me wonder if there's some genius at work behind them whose sole purpose is to string words together frequently but to never make sense. If that's the case, kudos to you.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
      Guess you beat me to that one.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:56 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Like the Bible, every word lol?? says is true. It is only a problem when they are put into sentences.

      February 28, 2013 at 10:14 pm |
    • lol??

      Da commie mommies are votin'. bigots

      February 28, 2013 at 10:15 pm |
    • lol??

      "1Cr 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?".....Did ya memorize this one?? ingrate bigot

      February 28, 2013 at 10:25 pm |
    • Akira

      Ah, lol?? being judgemental again? Say it isn't so.

      February 28, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
  8. Austin

    Where have you been ?

    February 28, 2013 at 8:57 pm |
  9. Jesus is_____

    the anchor, the hope for billions of believers.

    February 28, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      interesting.

      anchor |ˈaNGkər|
      noun
      1 a heavy object attached to a rope or chain and used to moor a vessel to the sea bottom, typically one having a metal shank with a ring at one end for the rope and a pair of curved and/or barbed flukes at the other.

      Many atheists agree. The anchor is what keeps you fighting the ocean and keeps you from exploring the beauty of the rest of the sea. You are stuck, bobbing up and down, waiting for life to come to you.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:04 pm |
    • lol??

      IN the film TI*TANIC the Bobby was bobbin' away dead with the whistle still held to his lips like a dogooder A&A. The other A&A's have the regular folk locked up down below while they're singin' and partyin' with da band.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • Akira

      What? Atheists caused the Titanic ti hit the iceberg, and locked the believers up so they couldn't be rescued? Am I reading this correctly, or is there some sort of lol?? code I need to learn first?

      March 1, 2013 at 12:49 am |
  10. Austin

    Sin is a disease. Evil is a catalyst and unbelief is a tragedy.
    I am guilty,

    God is love mercy and grace. Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lamb who was slain. The angels fear Him and conclude that Uor God is an awesome God!

    February 28, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • End Religion

      Perhaps your god can explain why your amount of of posting is inversely proportional to John's amount of posting.

      February 28, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      I believe in the resurrection!

      February 28, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Why is unbelief a tradgedy?

      The tradgedy is that your god requires belief and considers unbelief some sort of crime. More dicator than god.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
    • Britt

      I concur Austin. I will see you in one of the many galaxies in heaven in the not to distant future. Hopefully all these naysayers will repent so they don't choose their own hot hell hole.

      March 1, 2013 at 12:56 am |
    • End Religion

      heaven now features galaxies?

      March 1, 2013 at 1:03 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Have you any proof there is a hell, Britt? Other than the Bible, that is. Has anyone ever come back to report on it? Or do all the "near death experiences" just happen to folks who were "saved"? It sure looks that way–all the NDEs involve something that appears to be "heaven." How come nobody who has a NDE ever comes back and reports on a "hell"?

      March 1, 2013 at 1:06 am |
    • sam stone

      Sin is a myth, a stick to keep people in line. Got to sell them the disease before you push the cure

      March 1, 2013 at 3:16 am |
    • sam stone

      britt: fvck you and your empty proxy threats.

      March 1, 2013 at 3:17 am |
    • sam stone

      what's the matter, britt? are you frustrated? no one enter your "hot hell hole" in quite some time?

      March 1, 2013 at 3:19 am |
  11. Israel

    The name of Jesus resonates clearly with believers and atheists alike.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
    • Ken

      The whole thing is just a common propagating meme but it's mostly fiction. Get over it, and yourself.

      February 28, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
    • Carl

      Jesus is a slimy smarmy used car salesman in River City.

      February 28, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Israel

      You said, "The name of Jesus resonates clearly with believers and atheists alike."
      Jesus, if he ever existed, was in all likelihood just a regular dude. I have noting with him. It's the delusions of the believers about him that fascinates me. It is also this delusion that affects reasonable people because of the insistence of believers that everyone follows their particular interpretation of their fairy tale about the dude.

      Your Jesus is no more significant to me than Harry Potter.

      February 28, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • Israel

      Something about the name of Jesus is so powerful that mortals have an intense urge to respond to.

      February 28, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
    • Austin

      Sin and open rebellion. I am guilty and I know the truth in faith, but I rebel. It is insane.

      February 28, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You're insane.

      There. I fixed it for you.

      February 28, 2013 at 8:14 pm |
    • Austin

      You can not re invent god without evil and spirits. Truth is a spiritual war. Sin is unbelief is insanity.

      February 28, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
    • fred

      Lin CA
      "Your Jesus is no more significant to me than Harry Potter."
      =>What a shame, the most influential person of history has no more significance to you than a mystery story.
      Exactly how does that fit with your sense of reason and logic?

      February 28, 2013 at 8:36 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      “Jesus, if he ever existed, was in all likelihood just a regular dude”
      Ok, this cannot be LinCA as facts and logic do not support such a statement. Did you come in contact with some mind destroying bacteria?

      February 28, 2013 at 8:41 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @ fred,

      What "facts?"

      February 28, 2013 at 9:08 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @fred... Just in case you're having trouble with that word... I mean these defs.

      fact |fakt|
      noun
      a thing that is indisputably the case: she lacks political experience—a fact that becomes clear when she appears in public | a body of fact.
      • (the fact that) used in discussing the significance of something that is the case: the real problem facing them is the fact that their funds are being cut.
      • (usu. facts) a piece of information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
      • chiefly Law the truth about events as opposed to interpretation: there was a question of fact as to whether they had received the letter.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      LinCA is not wrong to say "in all likelihood" ordinary. Virtually everyone who has ever lived has been ordinary and not claimed to be the begotten son of God.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:15 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom the other
      Did you just evoke ad populum ?

      February 28, 2013 at 9:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      No, just pointing out that LinCA is drawing,at random I presumed, from a large population predominantly of ordinary people and claiming that in all likelihood the one he picked is ordinary.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
    • Ken

      Could someone please un-invoke fred? Or give him a brain.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom the Other One
      On the far left hand side of scale we have the atheists and or skeptics who at best must swallow the extant evidence that Jesus was a rabble rousing preacher that many claimed performed miraculous acts and was crucified by Pontius Pilate. On the right hand of the scale we have the living God the glory of which is proclaimed by heaven and attested to by hundreds of millions who have had a personal experience with God that has transformed their lives, this nation and the world.
      I submit it is the atheist that number less than 3% of the world population that are out of balance on this scale of reality.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      fred: "I submit it is the atheist that number less than 3% of the world population that are out of balance on this scale of reality."

      Christians were once few in number. If accidents of history can cause the kind of impressive growth Christianity enjoyed, we can hope that the utility of rational thought will cause non-theism to grow even more and eventually prevail.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:38 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @ fred,
      Still waiting for those facts...

      February 28, 2013 at 9:45 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom the other one
      I would imagine there are fewer atheists today than at any time in human history (Post Neanderthal) relative to the population as a whole. Godless have been around yet their numbers have never increased. That is in sharp contrast to what Saul of Tarsus and Peter set loose. That is the power of the Holy Spirit that ignites the soul of those looking upward in worship. Nothing has touched it in 2,000 years.
      The Spirit moved among the signers of the Declaration of Independence unanimously attesting to the Creator setting up the greatest superpower known to mankind to this day. One nation under God was the call. Our const-itution protects our freedom of religion as the heavens declare the glory of God.
      The likes of Mao and Stalin did not go after innocent atheists or agnostics they went after the Christian while Hitler went after the Jew. The head of church remains the target of the liberal media and the atheist because it is a living reminder of the power of faith and the reality of absolute truth.
      The spirit of God is living and active which is self evident in the creation as it was and is today.

      February 28, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
    • Religion is

      Superstition!

      How many Christians were there before Christ was born?

      February 28, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
    • End Religion

      fred, why is your religion crumbling? I give ya 15 years before you're completely irrelevant and the mention of your preposterous beliefs elicits the same uncomfortable tittering that a loud "Dyn-O-Mite" by Jimmy Walker might garner today.

      February 28, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
    • fred

      GodFreeNow
      Most interesting fact is that virtually all scholars accept the fact Jesus was a Jew born around 2 BC, baptized by John the Baptist and crucified by Pontius Pilate. The birth, the baptism and the Cross are the three most important events in Jesus life and they are not in doubt. Certainly you will find a few but then there are also those who still claim we never landed on the moon.
      Outside of those facts anything else requires faith and heart inclined towards that same hope Abraham had. I doubt anything in the 25,000 manuscripts or accepted extant works from 50AD through 125 AD such as the gospels, writing of Saul of Tarsus or any of the apostles would suffice as evidence to someone predisposed to godlessness.

      February 28, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
    • End Religion

      fred, thanks for refuting yourself within your own comment.
      "virtually all scholars accept the fact Jesus..."
      "... the three most important events in Jesus life and they are not in doubt"
      If "virtually" all scholars accept it, then there is some doubt.

      February 28, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
    • fred

      End of Religion
      No one knows when but the Bible says a time is coming when believers can no longer hold out. That will be the End of Days. If there is a God with attributes as revealed in the Bible He would provide the best possible results for greatest number of people. God has no choice in that because God cannot change. If God is perfect infinite love, mercy and justice that can be the only possible result. God can be nothing other than that or He is just a god like those of myth reflecting man made capacity not eternal power and wisdom.

      February 28, 2013 at 11:33 pm |
    • End Religion

      Ah, the infamous end of days we have heard about so often over the past 2000 years and seem to be threatened with every other day. Sounds like a rather commonplace event. Maybe it is literally "end of day" since we seem to get threatened with it daily, perhaps it is just ancient poetry for the daily "god's light waning from our world" – in other words just the sun going down each evening?

      February 28, 2013 at 11:43 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @fred,
      "“Jesus, if he ever existed, was in all likelihood just a regular dude”"
      Let's keep in mind this was what you disputed claiming facts. How is any of the non-wuwu stuff you claim as fact (i.e., "...anything else requires faith and heart inclined towards that same hope Abraham had.") in contradiction with the statement of Jesus being a regular guy?

      March 1, 2013 at 12:30 am |
    • Britt

      Of course He does, He created the entire universe.

      March 1, 2013 at 12:42 am |
    • fred

      GodFreeNow
      Does one man who with only the accepted fact of birth, baptism and crucifixion establishes the Western World View sound even a slight bit like a regular dude to you? Have you heard of any other regular dudes that are worshiped by 2 billion people today? Has any other regular dude from 2,000 years ago answered prayer? Would 11 apostles suffer torture and death for a regular dude? How many hospitals and orphanages around the world are named after a regular dude? Oh, look in my wallet there is some currency that says in dude we trust. One nation under dude indivisible with liberty and justice for all. How many people did Stalin and Mao kill because they believed in a regular dude?

      March 1, 2013 at 12:59 am |
    • End Religion

      Debunked, refuted and dispelled about 10 times a day. None of these characters, whether they were atheist or not, killed in the name of a lack of belief in a god. Some of them suppressed religion as a tool to further the goal of totalitarian control.

      "State-imposed atheism" is a misnomer; there can be no such thing. Imposed irreligion is not atheism. Atheism is only the lack of belief in a god; one can't force people to not believe in a god.

      The actions of Mao, Pol and Joe (who attended seminary) were totalitarian opportunists. They sought total authority and banned religion which would compete with that authority. The pursuit of control over a people was the cause for the bloodshed.

      Although Stalin initially sought to rid Russia of religion, once firmly in office he re-instituted the Russian Orthodox Church and re-opened theological schools. Suppression of religion was a tool not a reason.

      Pol Pot is said to have practiced some Theravada Buddhism (and his Khmer Rouge were radical Buddhists). He studied at a Catholic school in Phnom Pen for 8 years. This mad man targeted not only religion but science, medicine and education. Political dissent was not permitted, with torture a common sentence.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

      Hitler was raised Catholic. In his book Mein Kampf and in public speeches he made statements affirming a belief in Christianity. He called the purge of Jews "positive Christianity." While there is debate over his actual private feelings about the faith, he was a publicly practicing Christian. There exists no known evidence that Hitler was an atheist or agnostic. Again: evidence he was Christian; no evidence he was otherwise.

      Hitler said: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

      The Reichskonkordat was a treaty signed on 20 July 1933 between the Holy See (Catholic Church) and Nazi Germany, guaranteeing the rights of the Roman Catholic Church in Germany, giving moral legitimacy to the Nazi regime soon after Hitler had acquired dictatorial powers, and placing constraints on Catholic critics of the regime, leading to a muted response by the Church to Nazi policies. Yes, the Catholic Church colluded with Nazis.

      http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?ti.tle=20th_century_atrocities (take dot out of 'title')
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

      March 1, 2013 at 1:07 am |
    • fred

      GodfreeNow
      Do you not accept as fact the extant accounts that all but a small minority of scholars accept as fact regarding Jesus? You can get a good summary of bias secular view from:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

      March 1, 2013 at 1:09 am |
    • fred

      End Religion
      Oh, so you agree with me then that Stalin and Mao did not kill 80 million people over some belief in a "regular dude".

      Exactly what makes the godless act of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot any different from the Godless act of Hitler? The way atheists defend their godless behavior never ceases to amaze me. How are you any better at your justification for the killing of 80 million by these atheists that I am at justifying Moses for ordering the killing of 1,000 Amalekites? You claim God was a ruthless killer taking out those who attacked His chosen people yet Stalin a good old marxist?

      March 1, 2013 at 1:22 am |
    • GodFreeNow

      @fred,
      "Have you heard of any other regular dudes that are worshiped by 2 billion people today?"

      Yes... Buddha, Mohamed, Lao Tzu, Chaung Tzu, to name a few. Except most of those regular dudes, had the humility to not claim to be a deity or the son of god. Keep in mind that there are about 2.2 billion muslims. 20-30% of China is Taoist. So if you're impressed by your 2billion # as some kind of justification, keep in mind that the rest of the 6billion people on the planet are not christian.

      Again, most of your claims are not based in fact, so I won't answer them. It's the equivalent of me saying "has any other god inspired as much war as Mars?"

      March 1, 2013 at 1:23 am |
    • Yeah

      Very litle of the slaughter listed by fred was due to atheism. However, in one single conflict started by Christians about Christianity, as many as 100,000,000 people died: The Taiping Rebellion.

      March 1, 2013 at 1:31 am |
    • End Religion

      stupid fred said: "You claim God was a ruthless killer taking out those who attacked His chosen people yet Stalin a good old marxist?"

      Your god is supposed to be a loving, forgiving, inerrant GOD. Stalin was just a broken, power-mad human. You don't see that they should act differently and yet behave eerily similar?

      March 1, 2013 at 1:32 am |
    • sam stone

      fred: it wasn't the person who was influential, it was the myth

      March 1, 2013 at 3:22 am |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "What a shame, the most influential person of history has no more significance to you than a mystery story."
      Just because a lot of people think he is special, doesn't mean he was. A lot of people adore Justin Bieber, but that doesn't make him special (no matter what he thinks of himself).

      You said, "Exactly how does that fit with your sense of reason and logic?"
      There is not a single shred of evidence to even suggest that Jesus (if he ever existed) was anything other than a deluded believer. There is absolutely no reason to assume he was the spawn of a god.

      Unless you have evidence to suggest that the alleged father of Jesus exists, or existed, you are operating on unfounded beliefs. A fairy tale. Your belief in a "special" Jesus is no more rational then believing the Easter Bunny exists and lays colored eggs.

      March 1, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • fred

      LinCA
      “You said, "What a shame, the most influential person of history has no more significance to you than a mystery story."Just because a lot of people think he is special, doesn't mean he was.”
      =>no, alarm bells should be going off in your head if you actually believe Jesus has no more significance than Harry Potter. Seriously, take a close look at the lives were changed by Harry Potter, Stalin or even Obama etc. and tell me you actually believe Jesus was insignificant.

      “ A lot of people adore Justin Bieber, but that doesn't make him special (no matter what he thinks of himself).”
      =>Looks like you had a liberal coach in your youth sports programs that gave everyone the same medal regardless of ability or achievement. Although it makes little girls and boys feel good it destroys compet-ition and will allow your personal god of natural selection to weed out the liberal agenda in the long term. Oh, not to worry I cannot prove that as we must wait a few million years or so before those with competi-tive societies rise.

      “You said, "Exactly how does that fit with your sense of reason and logic?"
      There is not a single shred of evidence to even suggest that Jesus (if he ever existed) was anything other than a deluded believer.”
      =>Power and significance is not limited to that which is real or can be proven. The illusion or reality that Jesus existed has no impact as to power and significance attributed to Jesus.
      =>as to evidence do you really want to go down that trail again? Do we really want to drag up the burned flesh and broken bones of the 11 Apostles that were tortured and killed for refusing to say ok ok I made the whole thing up? Do we have an MRI of Saul of Tarsus that shows he had an aneurism and did not really see a blinding light that transformed him from a Christian killing Jew into the spear head of the Christian movement? I guess you do not understand why only a small handful of scholars believe Jesus may not have existed.

      “ There is absolutely no reason to assume he was the spawn of a god.”
      =>poor choice of words as Christ/Jesus was in the Garden with Adam and Eve not to mention with God at the point of creation.

      “Your belief in a "special" Jesus is no more rational then believing the Easter Bunny exists and lays colored eggs.”
      =>back to the wiring between your left brain and right brain. No one is willing to die or be tortured over colored eggs. Our world and our thought was not transformed by colored eggs.

      How rational is it for atheists to believe in philosophical naturalism for their answer to the origin of life when evolution cannot explain what came first the colored eggs or the Easter Bunny.

      March 1, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • JustForFun

      " I guess you do not understand why only a small handful of scholars believe Jesus may not have existed."

      Life events shared by Jesus and another god-man:

      There are numerous god-men in the ancient Mediterranean area and Middle East. There are many stories that appear both in Jesus' biography and in the legends of another god-man:

      – Mother's pregnancy: It was a common belief among early Christians that Mary was pregnant for only seven months. This legend is preserved in the Gospel of the Hebrews. Although this gospel was widely used by early Christians, it was never accepted into the official canon. Semele, mother of Dionysus, was also believed to have had a 7 month pregnancy.

      – Virgin birth: Author William Harwood has written that Jesus' "equation in Greek eyes with the resurrected savior-god Dionysos led an interpolator to insert a virgin-birth myth into the gospel now known as Matthew." 1

      – Birth Witnesses:

      – The gospel of Matthew records that Jesus was visited by an unknown number of wise men, called Magi.

      – Authors Freke & Gandy identify them as followers of the god man Mithras from Persia. 4

      – Most other sources believe that they were Zoroastrian priests from Persia who were experts in astrology. There is a Zoroastrian belief "that a son of Zoroaster will be born many years after his death by a virgin...This son will apparantly [sic] raise the dead and crush the forces of evil. Later Christians got rather excited about this apparant [sic] pagan prophecy of the coming of the Messiah..." 2

      – The gospel of Luke records that Jesus was visited by three shepherds. Mithra the god man from Persia was also visited shortly after birth by three shepherds.

      – The magi brought gold, frankincense and myrrh. A Pagan belief from the 6th century BCE states that these are the precise materials to use when worshiping God.

      – Healing: Jesus is recorded throughout the gospels as healing the sick and restoring the dead to life. So was Asclepius, a Greek god man. Pagans and early Christians debated who was the more effective healer.

      – Ministry: Jesus appeared as a wandering holy man who is later transfigured in the presence of some of his disciples. Dionysus was portrayed in the same manner in Euripides' play The Bacchae, written in 410 BCE.

      – Miracles:

      – Both Jesus and Empedocles were recorded as teaching spiritual truths, curing illness, foretelling the future, controlling the wind and rain, and raising people from the dead.

      – Both Mithra and Jesus performed many healings of the sick and mentally ill; both raised the dead. 3

      – Mark, chapter 5 describes Jesus driving demons from a man into a herd of about 2,000 pigs who rushed over a cliff and drowned. In Eleusis, about 2,000 initiates would bathe in the sea. Each had a young pig to which the believers' sins would be transferred. The pigs were then chased over a chasm and killed.

      – Fishing: John 21:11 records that Jesus performed a miracle which enabled Simon Peter to catch exactly 153 fish. The Pagan Pythagoras considered 153 a sacred number. The ratio of 153 to 265 was referred to by the Pagan Archimedes as "the measure of the fish." That ratio is used to generate a fish-like shape using two circles. The sign of the fish was used by the early Christians as their main symbol.

      – Arrest:

      – Both Dionysus and Jesus celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples before his death.

      – Dionysus is described in Euripides' play The Bacchae as bringing a new religion to the people, being plotted against by the leaders, being arrested and appearing before the political ruler. Dionysus said to his captors "You know not what you are doing..," almost replicating Jesus' words at the cross. He was unjustly accused and executed. All of these themes are seen in the Gospels.

      – Crucifixion & resurrection:

      – Jesus' body was wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh and aloe. Osiris was also said to have been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh.

      Again, the god men myths had been circulating well before Jesus birth. The Christians would have copied earlier Pagan material, not vice-versa.

      March 1, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • fred

      JustForFun
      If I find some time I think it may be fun to review some of the points that led to your conclusion. However:
      "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Micjhael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200

      March 1, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Wow

      fred are you really this dumb? JustForFun's article was stating Christianity was stolen from the pagan religions, even if you Jesus was a real person, the religion is not.

      March 1, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "no, alarm bells should be going off in your head if you actually believe Jesus has no more significance than Harry Potter. Seriously, take a close look at the lives were changed by Harry Potter, Stalin or even Obama etc. and tell me you actually believe Jesus was insignificant."
      Can you read? I said "Your Jesus is no more significant to me than Harry Potter". I recognize the myth around what may, or may not, have been a real person. That your Jesus is hyped up by believers to mean something more, is relevant only to those that are already deluded.

      You said, "Looks like you had a liberal coach in your youth sports programs that gave everyone the same medal regardless of ability or achievement."
      No. Your Jesus is simply nothing more than someone who is idolized. Just like Bieber. You are not any different from than a teenaged girl swooning over her idol. The only real difference, of course, is that Bieber is real.

      You said, "Power and significance is not limited to that which is real or can be proven. The illusion or reality that Jesus existed has no impact as to power and significance attributed to Jesus."
      I realize full well that billions of people let their imaginary friend determine how they live their lives. In that sense illusion is very powerful. Those that control the illusion wield enormous power. But, to me (again, me) what isn't real is insignificant.

      You said, "I guess you do not understand why only a small handful of scholars believe Jesus may not have existed."
      Whether he existed is irrelevant. Whether he was special in any way, is.

      You said, "poor choice of words as Christ/Jesus was in the Garden with Adam and Eve not to mention with God at the point of creation."
      ... according to your interpretation of your fairy tale. Don't forget that part, as it is a crucial to understand the mental illness that religion, and the infantile beliefs on which it is built, are.

      You said, "No one is willing to die or be tortured over colored eggs. Our world and our thought was not transformed by colored eggs."
      That people are willing to kill and die for a fairy tale only proves that mental illness is widespread. It lends no credence, whatsoever, to the fairy tale they kill and die for.

      You said, "How rational is it for atheists to believe in philosophical naturalism for their answer to the origin of life when evolution cannot explain what came first the colored eggs or the Easter Bunny."
      Did you read what you wrote? It doesn't help your case if you were trying to formulate a rational argument.

      March 1, 2013 at 9:03 pm |
    • fred

      wow

      What makes a religion real is belief. Christian lives are changed by their belief just as an atheists life is changed by a godless belief or their belief in philosophical naturalism. You also have beliefs which determine your purpose in life. Your purpose would not change regardless if that belief was based on acceptable evidence or not.

      March 1, 2013 at 9:06 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      Easter is coming, so soon you will know which came first the colored eggs or the Easter Bunny.
      You say what is not real is insignificant to you. What percentage of the people you currently associate with are real in their presentation of self to you? Are you real as to how you present yourself to others? I am not looking for numbers just making a statement that we really do not know what is real outside of that which can be lumped together as known matter and energy. Is it not actually based on perception and belief?
      If what is real and significant to me is based on actual experiences with God while yours is based on actual experiences absent of God how would your life journey have greater validity than the other?

      March 1, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
  12. Bob

    Rachel is Chad.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
  13. Bob

    Chad is Rachel.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
  14. prophet

    we are praying for all of you

    February 28, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
    • Chaim

      Sign on prophet's church: "Hang up brain at door and come onnnn innnnnn."

      February 28, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • LinCA

      @prophet

      You said, "we are praying for all of you"
      Do you suffer from dissociative identity disorder? Or do you enjoy it?

      February 28, 2013 at 7:47 pm |
    • Britt

      Thx, can u please also pray that i get some good clients soon too? Be Blessed.

      March 1, 2013 at 12:43 am |
  15. prophet

    many on here their comments give them away, they obviously don't believe in God but we are praying for them.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • Chaim

      You pray for us. We'll think for you.

      February 28, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      It's amazing how that works. I say things an atheist would say and you realize that I'm an atheist. What are the odds?

      February 28, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • Religion is

      Superstition!

      Gee, prophet. You're really smart. You can spot atheists by just what they say. I'm duly impressed.

      February 28, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
  16. Moby Schtick

    Jesus is myth. <– correct answer

    February 28, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Britt

      Actually there's plenty of evidence for Jesus Christ of Nazareth. But you must seek. Matt 7"7

      March 1, 2013 at 12:51 am |
    • Doobs

      @ Britt

      Such as?

      March 1, 2013 at 12:54 am |
  17. prophet

    so why did the so called chrstians do this, just see the vatican and the catholics and it will make sense. Money and greed and control and governments allow this because it keeps them from having to control people. This is why the governments allow the catholics to keep their religon.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
  18. prophet

    read the bible but with its real Hebrew Names and then you will know Who and What Our Saviour is and yes He did Save Us at least those who accept it.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • End Religion

      Mankind's entire pantheon, including Jesus son of god and the Abrahamic god itself, never existed. All religion is a fraud. Calling beliefs "unaffiliated spirituality" or other hogwash, while still holding out for some sort of pseudo-christian being or afterlife, does not help one dodge this bullet. If you suffer from a brand of the delusion that holds any of it as "reality," it is no less crazy than any other.

      February 28, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
    • Chaim

      Too bad he didn't save us from having to put up with your cr@p posts.

      February 28, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
  19. prophet

    Our Saviour did all that is in the Bible but the distortion of the facts by catholics, chritians ets is so subtle that its hardly noticeable and thats how they have fooled so many.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • End Religion

      Can you please explain to us how you have survived this long with your immense stupidity?

      February 28, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
  20. prophet

    to begin with who is jesus etc, this name and christianity was invented by the pagans, but we do have a Saviour but His Name is not jesus it never was and this is the deception that has lasted about 1850 years, all of you commenting on here have been so misled about this and yet the so called christians have not only milsed others but also misled themselves.

    February 28, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • End Religion

      You were misled by your parents who at some point told you that you were old enough to stop wearing diapers.

      February 28, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.