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First on CNN: Atheists ratchet up rhetoric, use billboards to attack Republican politicians
March 3rd, 2013
05:00 AM ET

First on CNN: Atheists ratchet up rhetoric, use billboards to attack Republican politicians

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – An atheist organization known for being provocative plans to take that reputation to the next level this week by putting up seven billboards that call out prominent politicians and religious leaders.

American Atheists plans to target three Republican politicians: former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, former House Speak Newt Gingrich and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.

The seven signs will go up around Dallas and Austin, Texas.

In one billboard, a picture of Palin is featured on the left, with a quote attributed to her. "We should create law based on the God of the Bible," the quote reads. Underneath the graphic is a tag line "GO GODLESS INSTEAD."

The billboard, however, misquotes Palin. In an interview with Fox News’ Bill O'Reilly, Palin addressed the growth in American secularism by saying America's founding fathers "would create law based on the God of the Bible and the Ten Commandments," not "should."

Each of the billboards has a similar format and includes a pitch for the group’s 50th anniversary convention in Austin.

Santorum is condemned for when he told an Iowa crowd last November that, "our civil laws have to comport with a higher law: God's law," while Gingrich is criticized for a remark he made at a CNN debate on October 18, 2011, in Las Vegas. "How can I trust you with power if you don't pray," Gingrich posited.

Virginia Davis, spokeswoman for Santorum, thanked American Atheists for the publicity.

"At a time when many are trying to remove God from the public square, the senator is appreciative of someone helping him very publicly express his strong belief that we are one nation under God," Davis wrote in an e-mail to CNN.

American Atheists President David Silverman, however, sees the billboards as a way to shame the targets.

"We at American Atheists are shaming these leaders for their bigoted and backwards remarks and attitudes, and conveying a message to today's atheists that we need not take it anymore," Silverman wrote in an e-mail to CNN.

Two religious leaders, the Rev. Robert Jeffress, pastor at the First Baptist Dallas, and Benedict XVI, now the pope emeritus, also are featured on billboards.

Jeffress' billboard includes a quote the pastor said during a 2008 sermon titled, "Gay Is Not OK." "What they [homosexuals] do is filthy," reads the billboard. Under the quote is the phrase "Go Godless Instead" and a rainbow flag, a symbol of gay rights.

This will be the only ad placed in Dallas, featured in a busy stretch of Interstate 30 and only a few miles from Jeffress' large church.

The First Baptist Church of Dallas is a member of the Southern Baptist Convention. Jeffress, who has been in its pulpit since 2007, is no stranger to controversy, including comments about Judiasm and Catholicism. After introducing Texas Gov. Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit in Washington in October 2011, Jeffress told reporters he believed Mormonism was a cult, expressing a personal position and one held by his denomination. The move was seen as a particular slight to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a lifelong Mormon.

The billboard featuring Benedict XVI, who stepped down Thursday, cites a New York Times article entitled, "Vatican Declined to Defrock U.S. Priest Who Abused Boys." "The Church Protected Priests Who Abused Children," reads the billboard.

Silverman says the group plans to spend $25,000 on the billboards, which will go up on Monday and remain up for the rest of March.

"Everyone should be allowed to profess their faith, of course, but that does not shield them from criticism," Silverman wrote. "Everyone has the responsibility to lead moral lives, and 'It's my religion' is not an excuse for bigotry or immorality."

Silverman continued: "Some Americans seem to think that bigotry in the name of religion is somehow permissible. It is not. We hope that the believers of Austin place anti-atheist bigotry in the same category as anti-Semitism or racism - a relic of the past that needs to be jettisoned for all the right reasons."

Six of the billboards will be dispersed around the Austin area, with four placed on high traffic freeways.

This is not the first time American Atheists has used billboards to get its message out.

Last March, the group targeted Muslims and Jews with billboards that called God a "myth" in both Arabic and Hebrew.

In November 2010, the same group posted a billboard around the holiday season that read, "You KNOW it's a Myth. This Season, Celebrate REASON."

Silverman, who has been criticized for this in-your-face atheism, has long defended the tactic, saying that the confrontation is meant to "grow the cause and benefit the country."

"That's why companies buy billboards - to get attention," Silverman wrote.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • Catholic Church • Newt Gingrich • Politics • Pope • Rick Santorum • Sarah Palin

soundoff (3,513 Responses)
  1. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    So now the adolescent boys are here.

    Time to go read a book.

    See ya, losers!

    March 4, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • The CNN Belief Blog

      Tom Tom leaving? And doing something else? – THANK GOD!

      March 4, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • Austin

      Dont worry, we will be here when you get back.

      For fun.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
    • The CNN Belief Blog

      I can just picture her reading a book – yelling insults at the fictional characters.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • Austin

      Are you talking about Tom Tom reading a book?

      March 4, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • Salero21

      Shut up Austin. Nobody's talking to you.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • Austin

      Come back when you can read. Loser.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
    • 12ax7

      Austin you suck.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • Austin

      Somebody stole my name! Hey I was wondering if Tom Tom was "her", not saying Tom Tom wouldnt be a book reading candidate.

      I have a feeling that was not Salerno telling me off but a poser.

      Hope everyone is in a good mood. Eat a healthy dinner.
      and I hope you turn to God for faith, and give up on proof, proof is a self will trap. Faith saves. He Gives faith. He is risen.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Salero21

      beat it Austin.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • Austin

      That hurts my feelings.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • CNN

      Tom, Tom is a female (and has a husband that doesn't seem to mind if she posts here for 15 hours a day).

      March 4, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • Just another Guy

      How do you know that her husband isn't also posting here

      March 4, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • Just another different Guy

      How do you know Tom, Tom isn't male and just saying he's female to mess with your heads?

      March 4, 2013 at 9:21 pm |
    • Salero21

      Scum like you doesn't have feelings.

      March 4, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
    • Austin

      How do you know that the IQ in Salero's name is that high?

      March 4, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • 12ax7

      Shut the F up, Salerno you miserable ass.

      March 4, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • dorothy

      don't come back lil tommie u pervert. take ur little girlie demons, all 2 of them. u r quite the scholar dorothy

      March 5, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
  2. Salero21

    Now, this Blog is about Belief which includes Faith. So what is it that attracts the atheist to it? Could it be something called conscience?

    Well I don't know if animals have conscience, though they often demonstrate affections, friendship and pity towards other animals, including animals of species other than their own.

    Atheists have been observed loving animals specially monkeys more than they love their fellow human beings. That’s what well known atheists like Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao did.

    March 4, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      SaltShaker 21, You truly are uneducated.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • 12ax7

      The answer is quite easy Salerno, those Atheists don't have a life and has nothing else to do other than being a pain in @ss.
      They're like parasites.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • ME II

      Dehumanization is the first step to genocide and atrocity.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
  3. 12ax7

    I see that Tom Tom has not yet evolve more than an ape. You are still here Tom Tom? Haven't i told you to go get some sleep and to get a life and a job.

    March 4, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why? I'm having fun watching you play idiot here. It's quite entertaining.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • Salero21

      Do you mean Tom tom the dumber's son?

      March 4, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • 12ax7

      Yep Solerno, that's the Tom Tom The Dumber Son i was talking about. That moron has been posting here for more than 24 hours straight without sleeping lol.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
  4. Bob

    Atheist translation
    -My godless laws will comport with my godlessness.
    -We should create law based on my godlessness.
    -I have godless wisdom to handle any situation.

    For positive influences of godlessness please look to the former Soviet Union/N.Korea.

    March 4, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Do you know any history of your religion?

      March 4, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Delusional pigeon chess.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • clarity

      Usual BS from Bob (Salero21 and probably Douglas). Of course, it's impossible to tell what the minds were of populations under communists regimes of the past. One can however say that it is unlikely that anyone would have acted in the name of atheism to do anything. Conversely, people throughout history have acted and committed atrocities in the name of their religions. It's ridiculous to try to make an association with a few communist dictators and atheists that live under democracy – it's just an uneducated ploy.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
  5. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Salero21 is a perfect example of this insanity.

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill were not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well and don't want to violate their beliefs.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    March 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Psych101

      There are a lot of insane people who don't believe in God.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • clarity

      True – but fundies in the U.S. right now are pretty damn easy to categorize into these different categories of extremism.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
  6. Salero21

    So then… we can conclude that Atheists do in fact have a whole lot in common not only with Idolaters, but with all kinds of Perverts, criminals, felons, tyrants et al. No wonder a troop of baboons have more social graces than atheists. The Atheist have not evolved, progressed above the level of apes, they're below apes. No wonder atheists love ideologies like Communism! That they do, instead of loving God and their neighbors.

    March 4, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Same troll, different day.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Athy

      Shit, this guy again.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Apatheist

      That explains the disproportionatly low number of atheists in prison....

      March 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Salero21

      Atheist love ideologies like communism because like some monkeys they love to steal. Several species of monkeys have been observed and recorded stealing. So do communists and atheists rob and steal, they're amoral.

      In the case of the monkeys they steal because they're just following an instinct, they just want to eat because they're hungry. Animals like monkeys don't have the ability to make moral judgments.

      Since atheist reject God, they also reject the Commandments Not to Steal and Not to Covet their neighbor's goods and possessions.

      Atheists and communists walk hand in hand on that. Because in behavior, character and conduct they're below the apes and all the other species of animals.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      He's not even original. The "below the apes" thing-he's apparently short on ideas.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Considering the USA's prison population is made up of 75% christian and 1% Atheist, we can say Salero is a lying SOB who has never read a book other than the buybull and never made it past the shack his Momma uses for teaching him and his hillbilly siblings.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Someone had their salt shaken a bit too much I'd say.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The middle school activity bus must have just made its last few stops.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • Akira

      So then...we can conlude that you are extremely uneducated, and will use any lie to support your position, which is a flaming bigot.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
    • == o ==

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Salero21 degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      and many other names, but of course we all know it's
      the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. troll.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • W. R. Martin

      Jealous of the Catholic pedophiles, much?

      March 4, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • End Religion

      == o ==
      add "Ex-Catholic" – he is apparently Salerno21 as well, obsessing about 'Idolaters'.

      March 6, 2013 at 6:02 am |
  7. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Insane idiots like Salero21 for example.

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill were not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well and don't want to violate their beliefs.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    =================================================
    Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?

    Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):

    If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.

    Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    March 4, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
  8. Salero21

    In the particular case of my comments agreeing with Minister Robert Jeffress quote, that what ho-mo-se-xuals do is Filthy because it is.

    The foolish arguments that atheists are always flailing around here are extremely hypocritical, stupid and fallacious.

    Just because one is not an abettor, accomplice or partaker in the wrong and perverse doings of people, does not means that one person does not Love.

    Love does not mean to become an abettor, accomplice or partaker in wrongdoings. Condoning wrong doings, being an abettor, accomplice or partaker with evil doers (any of them) is not in any form, shape or way a demonstration of Love.

    Just because one call out the perverse acts of perverts does not makes a person a bigot. Calling out the wrong, denouncing it, pointing to the wrong is not hate or bigotry. Otherwise nobody could be call out when they do all the other wrongs. Like for example the pedophiles, who BTW are also HO-MOS.

    Are these stupid atheists suggesting that the same be done with everything else? Should Pedophiles not be call out next? Should rapists not be call out next? Should murderers not be call out next? Should thieves and bank robbers not be call out next?

    How much more stupid these atheists can be?

    March 4, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Who says consensual s3x is wrong?

      It's not illegal. It isn't hurting anyone.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Pedophilia is not consensual. Ra pe is not consensual. Murder and robbery violate the legal rights of others.

      S#x between two men or two women who are of legal age and who consent to have s3x doesn't hurt anyone or infringe on anyone's rights.

      If you have a problem with it, too bad for you.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • Salero21

      A troop of baboons have more social graces than the pack of atheits here.

      Do they really think they miserable state of affairs is right? This is the same kind of Freaks that produced the likes of Joseph Staling, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong et al. How much more stupid can these atheists be?

      March 4, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
    • Akira

      Why are you assuming that everyone who doesn't exhibit the rabid bigotry you do an atheist? Because you're small minded, that's why.
      Do you suppose all gay people are atheist? Do you suppose there are no gay Christians? Think again. You're wrong.

      Now, slip into your next handle...you've certainly been trotting out your all star lineup today.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      From your posts, Salero, it's not the atheists or agnostics who look stupid–it's you. You're practically sh!tting yourself.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Really?

      "Just because one call out the perverse acts of perverts does not makes a person a bigot."

      How is two people having a long term loving relationship perverted? Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

      Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

      A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

      Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's true, Akira. One gay couple I know have both served in the military and belong to a Christian church. They exhibit none of the vitriol that people like Salero and SOC and anthony do. They seem very happy. Chad/Rachel, SOC, anthony, and Salero seem either angry or demeaning.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      What part of "what homosexuals do" is filthy?

      Going to work? Paying their taxes? Paying their bills? Housework? Loving their family? Falling in love? Earning a degree? Buying a house? Getting together with friends over a beer or two? Going to the movies? The theater? Taking their kids to the zoo?

      Oh. Do you mean "the sex"? Guess what? They'd say the same thing about your version of "the sex".

      Does sex define your life? Does it define who you are? Does who you have intercourse with determine whether or not you are filthy?

      March 4, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The thing is that I'll bet idiots like Salero are grossed out by straight s3x, too. They probably don't have it very often and when they do, it's with the lights out and only in the "nice" position.

      Of course, if they enjoyed it, they'd have to ban it.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • clarity

      Give a backwards-ass bigot a keyboard and the internet and this is what you get – Salero21. I think it's fair to associate Salero21 with the Westboro Baptist Church mentality from that very Christian sect.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Akira

      Do you not get that pedophilia and rape are crimes and not even in the same category as homosexuality? And you call atheists stupid?

      You're a disgrace to trolls, let alone Christians.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Apatheist

      Salero seems to have an obsession with baboons.... I understand, they are amazing animals.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • Austin

      Thieves and alcoholics have jobs and families, and they get married. No one cares.

      The only issue in my opinion, is using the word marriage. Then people toss their objections out there about the perverted lifestyle opinion, and maybe it is a perversion or disease like alcoholism can be, but Gay marriage is just a little bit too far over the line and deserves some outrage. Gay civil unions and tax breaks, who cares. Gay marriage, This is an insult to God that anyone who respects God should be disgusted and defend marriage as sacred.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • W. R. Martin

      Hypothesis: Homeschooling yourself is not a good idea.
      Positive data point: Salero21
      Theory: Salero21 is the poster-child for Dunning-Kruger.
      Theory can be disproven if Salero21 posts a comment that is >0.1% correct.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • Austin

      God said no.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • End Religion

      We already know why Doug/Bob/Salero/Ex-Catholic is drawn to talk of gays...

      March 6, 2013 at 6:05 am |
  9. Salero21

    "We should create law based on the God of the Bible." — Sarah Palin

    Now; that's as stupid as it gets! Christianity, True Christianity is not a Legal System, not a political party, neither a socio-economic system, is not even a Religion. Most man made laws are not against the Scriptures and "creating" laws based on God is an absurd because God is Perfect, God is in Heaven and we're neither of those.

    March 4, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • fintastic

      It's "absurd" for one reason and one reason only.... there is no "god" ... god is myth, no heaven, no heII, only fantasy... that's why it's absurd.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Salero21

      Atheists and Idolaters are like birds of the same feathers.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Austin

      I think biblical morality was her point. Values, ect.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • justmyopinion

      "Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites." -Thomas Jefferson in Notes on Virginia

      March 4, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • sam stone

      Biblical morality, Austin? Like owning other people? Stoning disobedient children? Killing entire nations, but taking the unmarried women?

      March 4, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Austin

      Sam, as in behaving and living in communion with God, and most importantly receiving atonement and repenting.

      That soul be for your awn good. God is Holy, He is risen.

      There is no point in rejecting God just because someone else did and was punished.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
  10. Salero21

    "What they [Ho-mo-se-xuals] do is filthy." — Robert Jeffress

    I agree with that because it is Filthy! And that's just to begin with the argument. Not only that; is against the natural, against nature (CONTRA NATURA), against Creation and again just plain common sense. All of that besides being an aberration and an abhorrence. Which should lead anyone to the same conclusion as Scripture; it is a Filthly Sin.

    March 4, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • OneInChrist

      Salero21 is a filthy prejudice bigot that is the scum of this earth and will burn in hell for all eternity for this bigotry!

      March 4, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Really it's just doing something only slightly unusual and not at all harmful with your genitals. Why does that make you go into a spasm?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Pete

      Oh, look a prejudice troll who's afraid of losing. Deal with it!

      March 4, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Hoops4Him

      Agreed, OneInChrist.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Erik

      "Not only that; is against the natural, against nature (CONTRA NATURA), against Creation"

      All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

      The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

      On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

      Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

      The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

      Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

      There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • Salero21

      one supposedly in Christ. 😀 😀

      Neither 1, 2 or 3 are you in Christ; 3 strikes you're Out. You're not in Christ, you're in a miserable State of bigotry.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • Alias

      Are you just thinking of gay men, or do you think the same about women?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Salero21

      So Erik,

      Do you really mean to tell us that the S e x that male Ho-mo-se-xuals practice is according to you, and some "Pseudo-science" not against the natural. Knowing that the human anatomy as Created, with a digestive system that includes the elimination of fecal matter via the rectum. Male Ho-mos use that same rectum for their so called S e x. Either you're stupid or an Educated fool!

      March 4, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No proof humans were "created" at all. Straight couples engage in the same practices.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Salero21

      Alias,

      You point is well made and taken! Both genders Ho-mo-se-xuality is CONTRA NATURA. However male Ho-mos are in particular Filthy, simply because their particular form of Se-xual practice.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Akira

      Alias, we got our answer. Salero is speaking of male gays only.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Marc Mielke

      You know what's disgusting? Tuna casserole. Actually, I can't abide canned tuna in any form.
      But I don't see the point in going around and ruining anyone else's lunch over it.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • sam

      Begone, lame troll.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • BetterNowBert

      Have you tried it with raisins?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Akira

      I think, Salero, that you give way too much thought to what gays do in the bedroom, and it is wholly none of your business.
      Of course, you may have any opinion you care to, that is your right.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Salero21

      Tom, tom the dumber's son,

      Point well made and taken! However not all straight couples engage in that. Still if they do they're taken the same risks. AIDS is still a risk; and prostate infections can occur to a man who engages in such without protection even with a woman.

      Do you understand Human Anatomy?

      For better info on the subject consult your Health care professional instead of Erik's copy & paste.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Facts

      Not all gay men have an.al intercourse... just the ones you dream about.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Salero21

      Akira,

      You still have your head in the sand!

      Do you ignore the fact, that this group of Perverts is using all sorts of resources? Like the Media, access to a Corrupt Legal System, to Politicians, to a Corrupt Political system, Money, Ho-mos in post of influence and power to promote and impose in "Your Face" their perverted agendas!!

      Do you forget the AIDS epidemic that has killed millions of them?
      Do you forget that some innocent victims were infected by some of these people's blood?

      The list of the consequences of the perverted "lifestyle" of these people is long enough.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • Akira

      Actually, IMO, anyone who constantly thinks about other people's sex lives, gay or straight, needs to find a hobby to keep them occupied...unless they consider that their hobby...then, perhaps, some sort of therapy is called for.
      Pretending to be concerned over someone else's health risks and the effect on their body is just plain disingenuous...a coverup for their own bias. I'm not fooled.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • Alias

      Um ..... There are a lot more cases of AIDS in Africa (%of population infected) than anywhere else.
      Are you suggesting god has it out for africans?
      Or did he miss?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • Salero21

      Facts,

      Are you so ignorant, a tard or a child?

      VD's & STD's like AIDS can be transmitted even thru kissing. Go back to school before your mom finds out what yo're doing here.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How is AIDS a risk for a monogamous, married, straight couple, Salero?

      And why is it any of your business what people do unless they're doing it to you or to someone who cannot give informed consent?

      And really, dear, why are you so interested in it?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It always cracks me up when some clown gets on here trying to tell everyone that it knows everything about some subject and then proceeds to write posts full of random caps, lousy grammar, and misspellings.

      Salero, go play with SOC. He's more your speed.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • Akira

      Salero,
      My head is not in the sand, but I think perhaps your wish to obliviate AIDS is the excuse you will use to try and get rid of gay people, which will never, ever happen.
      Unless you are all for Gestapo tactics, which is something else entirely, and even more reprehensible.
      Do you imagine that only the United States has gay people?
      I am speaking to you respectfully; please be respectful to me in your reply.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • Salero21

      Akira,

      Your head is stuck in the sand because is bigger than your neck!

      March 4, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Pete

      "Do you forget the AIDS epidemic that has killed millions of them?"

      They actually cured a baby with AIDS and the child is now 2 and has a clean bill of health. They have also been able to cure it in monkeys so it's just a matter of time before this is a moot issue.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Really, Salero, if you're in such a state about what gays do with each other, then by all means, don't ever be gay.

      It's pretty simple, really. I'm straight and I've never had any difficulty minding my own business where others' s3xual activities are concerned. You might want to consult a therapist if you have a problem.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:01 pm |

    • I know it's improper, but I wonder exactly what sensations Salero21 feels when someone says "analingus"?

      March 4, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Women who've only ever had female partners have very low HIV rates – god must be approving and showing favor.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Akira

      Oh, okay, Salero21=SOC=12ax7=yo=tbt=justwondering=justsayin=just a fucking cocksucker-in-denial troll.
      Never mind.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Dippy's sub

      Salero: "Still if they do they're taken the same risks"

      Did you mean "they're taking the same risks"?

      Either way, you're wrong.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • == o ==

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "Salero21 degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      and many other names, but of course it's the homophobic,
      disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. troll.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
  11. Doc Vestibule

    "The scientist purported that there aint no purpose
    And the theologian told me that it's all been designed
    And Im trying to maintain objectivity
    The world wont illuminate what really matters
    And Im an imperfect moral meaning extractor
    Processing the complexity"

    – "Shattered Faith" (Dr. Greg Graffin)

    March 4, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
  12. Alias

    To get back on topic, why is it a big deal to quote politicians – and former politicians – on what tey said publicly?
    A lot of this was said during the campaign and clearly an attempt to appeal to the audience they were addressing.
    Who doesn't expect this from politicians?
    A better question would be who voted for these people.

    March 4, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Akira

      I think you're right, Alias. Fox and MSNBC do it all the time, depending on which slant one favors.
      And I don't know you'll ever get a valid answer as to who voted for them, lol.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
  13. SoldierOfConscience

    All im sayin is "evolution has holes, many scientific theories have holes. Holes wide enough to drive a truck, nay a jumbo jet, through. Also this whole scheme is just the creation of man. So I cant rule out that on a smaller scale you can have explanations for some things. But till your 'science' explains everything 100% now, God is the one who is directing the whole cosmic drama."

    March 4, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • ME II

      So, until science explains everything 100%, you'll stick with something that explains 0%?

      March 4, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Billy

      Except there is just no evidence of that, so called "just sayin".

      March 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, all you're saying is "Duh."

      March 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Answer

      "All I'm sayin' is"

      -Ya all you are blathering about is your inordinate amount of misconceptions and poor EDUCATION.

      Get a clue and get more of an education you reject. Useless piece of turds like yourself are an insufferable toll on society. Get educated or die.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You come on here with your crap quizzes and expect everyone to kiss your ass, SOC puppet. The fact is that you're a troll who just doesn't know how to troll very well and you get outed at every turn. Just give it up. Find another hobby. You suck mightily at this one.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The scientific community does not speak Ex-Cathedra.
      The nature of the scientific method is that every discovery that answers an old question opens up a host of new questions.
      I understand that The God of the Bible discourrages questioning and exploration – after all, curiosity is the "Original Sin" for which mankind is forever punished – and if you're content with dogmatic, rote answers to the great questions of existence, then good for you.
      Progress is not made by those who cling desperately to the status quo.
      Luddites can only exst for a short time, so enjoy yours.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • meifumado

      You really need to go to a real school.

      Your ignorance is showing again.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • SoldierOfConGames

      Just fvcking believe me! I have a red phone with a direct line to the creator of the universe! Don't ask questions, just accept it and know that God needs your support both financially and emotionally because he's going to get real mad if he doesn't have enough followers or make our projected numbers this next quarter, so watch the fvck out! Ohm and make the checks payable to...

      March 4, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Akira

      Um...wow...

      March 4, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Hmmmmmm

      Yes, science has holes, and religion has tried to fvck evey one of them...

      March 4, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Science

      Hmmmmmm

      Funny

      Peace

      I KNOW THE HANDLE does the same.

      With a little spacerock thrown in.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • SoldierOfConscience

      Me II, as one who looks at black and white, either it works or doesnt. So there, in my mind i know I can trust God to control everything. If I say science > God then science should. its that simple.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You haven't gotten any smarter in the past hour or so. Try harder.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • ME II

      @SoldierOfConscience,
      "either it works or doesnt."

      Science works every time a plane flies, a computer runs, a farmer gets better yields, a child survives some disease, etc., etc., etc.
      How exactly does "God" work?

      March 4, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
  14. tony

    Fantasizing politicos are not harmless. Just take a look at Kansas's ruined education system and the much higher levels of poverty in the Southern States.

    March 4, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Answer

      I bet $100 US that the Discovery Inst-i-tute had a hand in that education system's demise. They want to inject their creation spin into every corner of science.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
  15. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is contributing to the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill were not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well and don't want to violate their beliefs.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    =================================================
    Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?

    Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):

    If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.

    Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    March 4, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      "Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?" Yes, it's become more transparently bogus as we unravel our universe and more and more Christians are becoming ex-christians and no longer associate themselves with the perverted lies that have been used to control humans for centuries. Religions hold on mankind is slowly coming to an end. As hard as it is sometimes, we atheists need do nothing but wait for religion to destroy itself like a rotted barn that fall's in on itself because of it's own decayed weight and it's crumbled foundation. Good riddance.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
  16. Colin

    My Christian friends, you’ll find that most (ex-Christian) atheists don’t believe for one or more of the following reasons:

    The concept of an immortal being makes no sense to us.

    The concept of an all-powerful being makes no sense to us.

    The concept of an all-knowing being makes no sense to us.

    Throwing the three together into one being effectively cubes its already dispositive implausibility.

    We tend to have a good working knowledge of the age, size and history of the Universe. The idea that a being would create the entire thing – with 400,000,000,000 galaxies, EACH with 100, 000,000,000 starts and even more planets, then sit back and wait 13,720,000,000 years for human beings to evolve on one planet so he could “love them” and send his son to Earth to talk to a nomadic group of Jews about sheep and goats in Iron Age Palestine (while ignoring the rest of the 200 million people then alive) makes no sense to us. We can’t help but ask ourselves, “did God make the Jews or did the Jews make God?”

    The answers usually proffered for what we see as basic logical flaws in Christianity – “you have been blinded by your lack of faith” “God moves in mysterious ways” “God is outside the Universe” or “our minds are too small to understand the greatness of God” are never satisfying to us. We see a retreat to mysticism as the first refuge of the cornered fool.

    The common argument, “well, what caused the Big Bang?” with the implication that, because we have only theories and no iron clad explanation for the Big Bang yet, the Judeo-Christian god must have caused it – does not make sense to us. “I don’t know” does not equal “god” to us, much less the Judeo-Christian god. We feel the answers to such a question are much more likely to be found in Einstein’s equations, quantum physics, large particle accelerators and radio telescopes than in Genesis Chapters 1 through 20. We’re crazy aren’t we?

    We do not see miracles in things like tornadoes missing a certain trailer in a trailer park, cancer going into remission or Tim Tebow winning a football game.

    We understand that Christianity is one of many, many religions in the World, and we don’t think that we were lucky enough to have been born in the one part of the World that “got it right”. Likewise, we know how all faiths evolve, morph and change over time and do not think we were lucky enough to have been born in the one generation that “got it right.”

    We tend to have a basic knowledge of history and know that there is nothing magical or special about the supposed history of the Jews, gospels, letters, apocalyptic story (Revelations) and other materials that found their way into the Bible, in that they are largely indistinguishable from the other mythology and religious writings of the pre Dark Ages Mediterranean.

    Human beings are terrified of their own deaths and we see the various religious beliefs that try to “wish it away,” such as reincarnation, living happily ever after in Heaven with Jesus, having your own Mormon planet etc. as nothing more than childish stories for the more näive, timid minds among us.

    We do not see morality as predicated upon a belief in the supernatural. We accept that one can be moral without believing in the supernatural and that doing so is no guaranty that one will conform to the norms of society that people call “morality”.

    “You can’t prove God doesn’t exist” is not a convincing argument to us, or even a relevant point, because an inability to disprove something is a far cry from it being true. We cannot prove that the Hindu gods Shiva or Vishnu do not exist either, nor Santa Claus for that matter, but that is hardly a reason to believe in them. It is not even evidence for their existence. It is impossible to prove a negative in this context.

    When one looks at the various Christian beliefs that were once firmly believed – Adam and Eve, Noah’s flood, people living to be 700 or 900 years old, the Red Sea splitting, water turning into wine, a talking snake, a man living in a whale’s belly, people rising from the dead, Jesus driving demons out of people and into pigs – but which are now acknowledged by most thinking people to be mere mythology, it is pretty hard to give a lot of credibility to what’s left.

    It is hard not to consider Christianity as based on circular reasoning. Most Christians believe in God because the Bible says so, then turn around and say they believe the Bible because it is the word of God. To draw an analogy, “I believe Mao Zedong was a great man because The Little Red Book says so, and the reason I believe The Little Red Book is that it was written by Mao Zedong, who was a great man.” Do you even have the slightest idea of how your Bible was compiled over the centuries or who decided what to include and what to exclude and on what grounds? Can you even name one of hundred plus authors who contributed to it? One of the many people who decided what got in and what didn’t?

    To be bluntly honest, the more one comes to understand mother nature, the less reason there is to believe in a god and the more one understands human nature, the more one sees why so many of us still do.

    So, before you next proudly proclaim you know the secrets to life, death, the origins of life on Earth and the origins of the Universe, simply because your parents or priest taught you some comforting stories from late Bronze Age Palestine as a child, you might like to reflect upon the overwhelming enormity of the claims you are about to make and the complete paucity of evidence that underwrites those claims.

    March 4, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • on the other hand, facts

      Pithy.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • on the other hand, facts

      I agree with most of the things you said, Colin. But you ought to post your essays in a different forum. This forum is not conducive to essays and careful thought.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • the AnViL

      good form...

      bloody good form.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      "We see a retreat to mysticism as the first refuge of the cornered fool."

      First and only refuge, and not a very good one. It's like a child who thinks no one can see them when they close their eyes...

      March 4, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • Answer

      "It is hard not to consider Christianity as based on circular reasoning."

      ==I despise their circular reasoning the most.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • Athy

      Colin, a great post. It'll obviously be above the attention span of most religies, but that's their loss. They wouldn't allow themselves to believe it anyway.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • meifumado

      Well said sir!

      March 4, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Doobs

      ^ +100

      March 4, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Science

      Chad non casual agent RELIGIOUS BS

      Paece

      March 4, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • fintastic

      Excellent post Colin

      March 4, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • science

      Oops dame thumb Iwrong place.

      Peace

      March 4, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Bravo! Standing ovation. (Well, not technically, but I'm standing in my imagination.)

      March 4, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • BetterNowBert

      Nice try, but your concept of God is too small for me. God is bigger and better than what you profess to know (or not know) about God.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      No, Bert, you're just delusional.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • BetterNowBert

      @Santa

      I've had my head checked. I'm fine. I have to be for my job.

      Have you had your head checked recently? How do you know YOU aren't delusional?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      You could have honestly stopped with your first three assertions regarding things that make no sense to you. I think the problem you create for yourself is that you proceed from a stance of confusion into a defense of it for rejection. Just because something makes no sense to you doesn't mean it makes no sense, no matter how brilliant you are or how educated or how many people applaud your erudition. You also argue from what you perceive other peoples motives such as a fear of death. That one has been around along time and repeatedly refuted. Your supporters like it because it's an old favorite. Just like "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple. Everyone loves to hear it but musically it's elementary. You are, of course entiitled to remain confused and to bolster that with elaborate defenses. As such, your essay is a great explanation to me regarding the fact that there are things you don't understand. It does not, however convince me that you desire to understand, only that you hope you are right.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Doesn't sound confused to me at all.

      Not nearly as confusing as the inept explanations I've seen put forth by the believers here.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • Pssst

      Colin,

      Wonderful piece.

      If you use it again (or publish it), you might want to fix the name of the Bible book - it's 'Revelation' (not 'Revelations').

      March 4, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • The Fact

      "The concept of an all-knowing being makes no sense to us."

      But yet you seem to be able to wrap your mind around the concept of 400,000,000,000 galaxies. Forgive me but I doubt you have the capacity to comprehend that any better than an all-knowing being. For you, it's just a massive number you don't understand just like the words that describe the faith in an all knowing being. You're selective in admitting your ignorance.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • Shhhh

      He has pasted, er...., uh, posted this before.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon.... Since you retreated from the other thread. You want someone to dig up the numbers for you for an RCC, education comparison; let me ask you to compare the amount as a % of pedophile abuse between the RCC and other religious cults with emphasis on ones that do not have celibacy requirements? Oh thats right the RCC maybe the only cult to have such an unnatural requirement, try anyway, Bill.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • Calin

      The Chinese language makes no sense to us.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
    • Calin

      Advanced algebra makes no sense to us.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • Calin

      Justin Bieber makes no sense to us.

      March 4, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • Calin

      C++ makes no sense to us.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
  17. HarryGP

    Note: Bible reading in public schools ended in 1963 when Madalyn Murray O'Hair sent a lawsuit to the Supreme Court, after the same court eliminated officially sponsored prayer in schools. She her son and granddaughter were kidnapped and murdered by an American Atheist office manager, David Roland Waters.

    A.A.'s take care of their own... and wreck the best for the rest of us.

    March 4, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • IKYABWAI

      HarryGP,

      Jim Jones, of the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel, killed over 900 people in Jonestown, Guyana.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Harry our Gullible Puppet: You are such a mislead fool. Why the hell should christians get to have their belief in schools and not everyone else? Would you mind if a morning prayer was said that honored Jehovah or any of the other gods? Children can still read the buybull's and they can still say a silent prayer. The only thing that can't be done is the leading of prayer by a school official...it violates the freedom of and from religion and given that you reside in a secular country this is the way it will remain. Suck it up puppet...your belief has no pertinence in the public square...if you want a theocratic country try one of the Islamic ones.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Athy

      Harry, would you condone the teaching of evolution in your kids' Sunday School class?

      March 4, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • Chad

      @athy,
      are you talking about theistic evolution?

      March 4, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What is it that was "wrecked," Harry? If your god can be kicked out of schools by a man-made law, what a puny god he must be! The fact is that your god wasn't kicked out of anything; you are perfectly welcome to pray anywhere. You just don't get to force others to participate in YOUR prayer anymore than you'd want to be forced to participate in THEIRS.

      You want to have the Bible read in schools? Then be prepared to have the Quran read, too. You don't get to have a Christian school funded by taxpayer dollars under secular government. Get over it, already.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Are you speaking as Rachel or as Chad this time? It's hard to know when you lie through your teeth.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      HarryGP=lol??

      Do not feed the trolls.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Answer

      Chad

      @athy,
      are you talking about theistic evolution?

      ===== Note to everyone.. Chad's specialty is trying to conjure up his famous 5 points. Please egg him on and see for yourself those lovely 5 points. 😀

      And note .. Chad will not challenge nor correct the "Young Earth creationists" because he is out of his leagues when it comes to theology.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      As far as I can tell the only difference between "theistic" evolution and scientific evolution is the addition, to a standard textbook, of three words

      ".... orchestrated by God"

      March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      June 2001 Andrea Yates drowns her 5 children in the bathtub. She told her jail psychiatrist: "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of heII." She also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made them more disobedient.

      So which bible are we suppsoed to start reading in schools again? Madalyn Murray O'Hair s? Or Andrea Yates? Oh, wait, they are the same bible...

      March 4, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • Doobs

      Hi Chad,

      Be sure to bring Rachel and Cosette back to tell yourself how wonderful your posts are and what meanie, meanies the bad old atheist are for laughing at you.

      You have no reason to post anymore, no one cares. A few may set you up for a good laugh, but that's the only kind of response you'll get here.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad/Racel
      Theistic evolution was created by and for christian apologists, that is all.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "As far as I can tell the only difference between "theistic" evolution and scientific evolution is the addition, to a standard textbook, of three words" ".... orchestrated by God"
      @ you should also add:
      – explains the fossil record pattern of stasis-rapid change (unlike the atheistic-naturalistic theory)
      – is in harmony with anthropic principle
      – is in harmony with the origin of our universe and required external causal agent
      – is in harmony with the only viable explanation for the origin of life on earth.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @MEII

      "As far as I can tell the only difference between "theistic" evolution and scientific evolution is the addition, to a standard textbook, of three words"

      That's all I get too. Occasionally you can add "with remaining gaps filled in by the words 'God did it'".

      March 4, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Is Rachel holding your hand now, or some other portion of your anatomy?

      March 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Chad

      One could also levy the same accusation against naturalistic evolution, namely that it is atheism-of-the-gaps, whenever an gap is encountered, the response is "well, everything points to some non-natural causal agent, but we know the God of Israel didnt do it, so we'll just stop at that point"

      March 4, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Chad

      What is explained by your explanation of "Magic done it" is irrelevant, because with something that apparently doesn't need to follow any rules, everything is explained. What you fail to do constantly is demonstrate that that magic explanation even exists. It's so incredibly sad that you need to be so dishonest to delude yourself into continuing to believe your own bullshit.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,

      Evolution, the scientific theory, explains, and is consistent with, the fossil record.
      – is consistent with the weak anthropic principle.
      – is consistent with what we know of the origin of the universe.
      – only deals with the diversification of life once life began on Earth.

      "the only viable explanation for the origin of life on earth."
      Please, expand on this. How exactly did life originate on earth? ... and present the evidence or citations, please.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "but we know the God of Israel didnt do it, so we'll just stop at that point"

      Which is not what scientists say or do, you lying POS. They simply don't ASSUME that God done it and stop there. You do.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "everything points to some non-natural causal agent"

      How exactly does something "point to" a "non-natural causal agent""? Details please.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Science

      Chad god of isabell is waiting for you

      You better go find it.

      Poke
      Peace

      March 4, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      " everything points to some non-natural causal agent"

      I'm sorry, I must have missed that part in science that say's "If you have incomplete data, just use your imagination and invent something that fill's in the blanks, like God, which will bring you to the answer you have already decided upon."

      March 4, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad
      Go ahead and post the same crap you have posted dozens of times before, you know you want too. Also provide for the first time a supernatural event that can be proved, thanks and thank Rachel also.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      On Chad's: whenever an gap is encountered, the response is "well, everything points to some non-natural causal agent, but we know the God of Israel didnt do it, so we'll just stop at that point" Chad knows that ordinarily science does not halt at gaps in our knowledge. That's not to say it could not happen. Theoreticians have already made proposals that could not be tested using a machine that is smaller than the Universe. But such a gap would still not compel the conclusion that "God did it".

      What has pointed to a non-natural causal agent? Often enough evidence points to an unknown causal agent. How would I know if it is non-natural?

      March 4, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • Science

      Chad non casual agent RELIGIOUS BS

      Paece

      March 4, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Now, why would it take so long for Chad/Rachel to answer this?

      March 4, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Science

      It came back as bret above maybe under Collin.

      Poke Chad !

      March 4, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Harry, Waters was most likely a christian mole

      March 4, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "How exactly does something "point to" a "non-natural causal agent""? Details please."
      @Chad "
      1. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed naturally
      2. All of the matter in the universe, energy and time itself came into being at the origin of our universe
      3. Energy exists, but it cant have been created naturally, so it must have been created non-naturally.

      1. Fossil record indicates stasis and rapid change
      2. there is no known credible natural theory to explain this
      3. therefor, an external organizing force is our best explanation

      1. Life does not spontaneously generate from non-life naturally.
      2. We have life
      3. therefor, and external(non-natural) causal agent is required.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      "All of the matter in the universe, energy and time itself came into being at the origin of our universe" perhaps as a sort of phase transition from something other than what is confined to our Universe. Seems natural enough to me. This is all pretty basic stuff, Chad.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      (PE again) "there is no known credible natural theory to explain this" – that is false, Chad. I pointed you to a recent paper on this topic. You are uninformed rather than dishonest in this case, I trust.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • fintastic

      There is no such thing as "theistic evolution"..............

      how about.............evolutionary ignorance due to religious mythology.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Chad

      "phase transition from something other than what is confined to our Universe"
      =>any theory of that type merely pushes the problem back one step.
      There can not be an infinite number of regressions.

      I pointed you to a recent paper on this topic.
      =>please re-post.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Chad-

      This is one I enjoyed, and I think it's an easy read:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510218/

      If you are up for a more rigorous approach I can recommend others.

      March 4, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      Even if all you number points were true, which I don't agree with, that does not "point to" a "non-natural causal agent", (assuming "causal agent" is some intelligent agent.)

      "1. Life does not spontaneously generate from non-life naturally."

      Why do you think this is true?

      March 4, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Chad

      Are you incapable of being honest? Big Bang cosmology in no way states that matter and energy "came into being" at the start of expansion. It in fact says the opposite, that all matter and energy were condensed into a singularity already, then began an expansion process.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "hawaiiguest", but "Chad" is not capable of being honest.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • In the dark

      Chemosynthese at a volcanic vent.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
  18. Jeff

    What's the point here? Who cares if atheists want to invite some people to share their viewpoint. I don't, so I won't join their cause, but it is their right to 'advertise' their point of view if they choose to do so.

    What I don't get is throwing up a few pictures of some controversial statements made from the government. There are plenty of whacked out comments made from both sides...who cares what these people have to say? I get that they've been elected, but they're harmless. As long as we're a democracy and elect officials, we will have to deal with unique individuals getting their 15 minutes.

    March 4, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • on the other hand, facts

      You win the cynicism contest! You must be wise, because you don't care. How do I join your club?

      March 4, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Jeff

      ...it's pretty simple really, bring a 6 pack and enjoy discussing things we have no hope to change. Settlers of Catan experience is nice, but not necessary...

      March 4, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Doobs

      Elected officials, especially the ones noted on the billboards, are not harmless. They author and pass legislation that affects everyone. They can pass laws that prohibit me from making my own health care decisions because of what they say their imaginary friend tells them. They can deny a person's civil rights for the same reason.

      That is not harmless at all.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Jeff

      Come on doobs...do you really think a bill authored by one of those 4 goes anywhere? If they co-authored something, maybe, but then their rhetoric is subdued at best...

      March 4, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Aydin

      Jeff,

      People who think this way don't need to author the bills, they just need to vote. And the reality is there are plenty in office today who share these views but just know enough to speak more carefully. This serves as a warning to be very careful in electing people who have aligned themselves with a religious group. Until proven otherwise in explicit statements, one should assume that a person's ethics and beliefs align with the religion with which that person has voluntarily as_sociated his or her-self.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How harmless is it when a zealot attempts to abrogate a woman's right to choose because he believes it's God's will that a ra pe results in a pregnancy? Do you really think people like these aren't trying to do just that? How harmless is it when a politician forces a school system to teach creationism in a science class?

      These aren't far-fetched cases, Jeff.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      None of these people are credible threats to democracy or anything else.

      – Sarah Palin is a non-ent.ty. Her 15 minutes of fame are long over and the only people who will miss her public pronoucements are the late night comics.

      – Newt (and his lunar colony) are now a punchline.

      – Robert Jefress is a bigoted pastor.

      – Rick Santorum is the most dangerous of this bunch and where did this get him in the primaries?

      Their only relevance is that they are all poster children for the myth of divinely inspired American exceptionalism, that we are a Xtian nation, etc – that is, people who deliberately feign ignorance of the establishment clause to pander support amongst the brainwashed.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      What is really dangerous here are the continued myths that the United States is a Xtian country and that American exceptionalism is divinely inspired.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • fred

      I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV
      Not a myth but reality. Your issue is about choice of words used. Tell me did all our Preisdents claim to be Chrristian? Why is that if we are not a Christian nation?

      March 4, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      the majority of people in the US are indeed Christians, so it is inevitable that they will elect people to the office of President who happen to be Christians.

      The Const.tution of the US does not define a "Christian nation", but a secular nation with unfettered religious freedom.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @fred

      " Tell me did all our Preisdents claim to be Chrristian? Why is that if we are not a Christian nation?"

      I'm sure all our presidents would claim to be male too, but that doesn't make us a male nation. Until recently they'd all claim to be white...still not a white nation.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • fred

      I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV
      Divine inspiration such as the Declaration of Independence reading “Endowed by our Creator” and ending in a prayer for blessing from the Supreme Judge of the World.
      Please put your hand a Bible to take your oath………
      In God we trust on our money
      One nation under God.
      90% Christian populace in 1963 and 70% today.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      "Please put your hand a Bible to take your oath………"

      Where is this required under Federal law???

      Give me just one example please!

      March 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "Divine inspiration such as the Declaration of Independence reading “Endowed by our Creator” and ending in a prayer for blessing from the Supreme Judge of the World."

      The DOI is *not* the law.

      BTW, are you still worried about the Canadians invading? That's in the DOI too.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Jeff

      Aydin and Tom...I certainly think we need to keep our eyes on people like these, but I do not feel like they pose a real threat to sanity. I have to agree with the statements made by I'm not a GOPer...Santorum is the most 'dangerous' of these 4, but I even think he is running towards insignificance.

      It is important for me to tell you that I am a Christian. I don't want to get into the battle that could ensue with that statement, just know that not all of us out there feel like the bible needs to be slammed over anyone's head. I believe what I believe and respect you for believing what you do. Any statement made otherwise is intolerant and archaic in today's world.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "One nation under God"

      A sad legacy of McCarthyism and not a founding principle.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • fred

      I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV
      Saraswati

      It is semantics where we should say a secular nation governed by a Judeo Christian World View and populated by a supermajority of Christians who believe that there is purpose for existence that is greater than love of self.

      Better?

      March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ Jeff

      Come on doobs...do you really think a bill authored by one of those 4 goes anywhere?

      I don't want to take that chance. I'd rather protect my rights by electing people whose ideas about civil law are in line with mine. Like whether I can choose if, when, and how I reproduce, or whether a friend of mine will be allowed to marry any consenting adult of their choosing.

      If they co-authored something, maybe, but then their rhetoric is subdued at best...

      So they'd tone it down in public. We all still know what they believe, and have to assume that they will act according to their beliefs, since they have plainly stated them.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      "a secular nation governed by a Judeo Christian world view and populated by a supermajority of Christians who believe that there is purpose for existence that is greater than love of self."

      almost there. We are governed by the rule of law, not a Judeo-Christian world view. The rest of the comment is fine.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • Jeff

      fred...the growing issue is that Christians are at the heart of every insignificant issue we seem to have in this country. Talking about money or the Declaration of Independence is irrelevant today in my mind. A lot of statements of faith were made by our forefathers, but read deeper and see their intent and understanding.

      This country is great and allows us to practice our faith in the open. That said, we MUST respect those that differ from us. If we want a conversation with those people, slamming them with our beliefs is not a very good way to pull that off. Just my experience...

      March 4, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • fred

      I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV”
      "Please put your hand a Bible to take your oath………"
      Where is this required under Federal law???”
      There are stacks and stacks of laws on books all over this country. Most people do not know the hidden laws and fortunately there are typically not enforced. I suspect you want to argue the law takes precedent when in fact what takes precedent is the willingness of the populace to follow the law.
      Certainly there have been a few in recent times that refused to use a Bible to lay their hand upon it and they were not tossed in jail or tossed out of office. But, the law that rules this country is that based upon Judeo Christian World View. Without the voluntary compliance by the populace you have anarchy.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @fred
      I would accept:

      "A secular nation with a set of laws influenced by both Judeo Christian and secular ethics and populated by a large but diminishing supermajority of Christians together with other secular and religious populations all of which groups have a majority of members who support ethical beliefs that are broader than their own self-interest."

      March 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      fred, give it up. There IS no law that requires anyone to swear on the bible.

      You shoot yourself in the foot so often your podiatrist must be a millionaire.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Oh look, here's fred with the same old "Christian Nation" lies and misinformation.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • fred

      Jeff
      Good point, thanks !

      March 4, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      " Physically placing ones hand on a Bible and swearing an oath is not required nor was it ever legally enforceable. The court gives those giving testimony the option of "swearing an oath" or making an affirmation to tell the truth as to the best of their knowledge."

      March 4, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "When Presidents and other federal officials take their oaths of office, they often place their hand on a Bible and conclude their oaths with the words "so help me God." Some accommodationists see these practices as evidence that the founders never intended separation of church and state. But this conclusion doesn't follow: the Const itution doesn't require Presidents or other federal officials to place their hand on the Bible or say the words "so help me God." Quite the contrary, those sections of the Consti tution that deal with oaths of office are completely secular in content and, as such, const itute evidence that the framers intended separation.
      The Presidential oath of office is described in Article II, section 1 of the Const itution:

      Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:–"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Consti tution of the United States."
      Nothing in this section requires that the oath of office be taken on the Bible. Neither do the words "so help me God" appear in the oath. While Presidents often include this phrase in their inauguration ceremonies, the words are customary; they are not required by the Const itution and have no legal significance.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      if you would like to see a very interesting discussion on this topic see here (particularly the Susan Jacoby segment) though watching a 19 year old gently school Bill on the Gallup survey was amazing (way to go Zack!)

      http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-fighting-creeping-creationism/

      March 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • fred

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
      Ok, I recall a Bible verse that says we are not to swear to God in the first place. Since God agrees with you who am I to disagree!
      If Saraswati definition in 25 words or less meets your spell and grammar check, I would go with that.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      "There are stacks and stacks of laws on books all over this country. Most people do not know the hidden laws and fortunately there are typically not enforced. I suspect you want to argue the law takes precedent when in fact what takes precedent is the willingness of the populace to follow the law"

      There is NO FEDERAL LAW requiring that a bible be used. Not a single one. It is wholly unconst.tutional.

      There are innumerable, pre-federal, colonial laws that require a religious test – and NONE of them are enforceable on the basis of the first amendment.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • fred

      Here comes the Bible verse you all have been waiting for (yes, the Bible has all the answers):

      Galatians 5:22-24

      New International Version (NIV)

      22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. AGAINST SUCH THINGS THERE IS NO LAW. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      fred, you just reinforce what Chad/Rachel show us: fundies lie. They lie about everything. They lie about what they "know." They lie about what they think they "know." They lie about what others say. They lie.

      You lie.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom
      You are not suggesting there are laws against the fruits of the Spirit……..are you?

      March 4, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Frank

      "Here comes the Bible verse you all have been waiting for (yes, the Bible has all the answers):"

      No, it doesn't. The proof is in how screwed up Christianity is, how fragmented it has made itself. Many of the concepts in the Bible were established long before the bible was even written. The writers stole the concepts from other sources.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • fred

      Frank
      Given that the Word of God was passed on by oral tradition long before Moses put it into writing you are correct. Where you are in error relates to what is the truth and Word of God relative to all the errors and ways of man over time. At a minimum the Bible points out the fact man (even the most religious) never could follow the laws of God or the stay with the ways of God. This is why you see what appears to be disunity and error in religion (they have become creations of man not God).
      Even if there were no God I can’t help but believe if we follow the simple ways of Christ this world would be a better place

      March 4, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Pete

      "Given that the Word of God was passed on by oral tradition long before Moses put it into writing you are correct."

      fred you are a liar.

      March 4, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Well I see fred has already shifted the topic to avoid the flack from his earlier lies.
      Fred, do you have a poster of Martin Luther in your room? Do you say to yourself everynight before bed "It's good to lie for Jesus, it's good to lie for Jesus"?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • fred

      Pete
      hawaiiguest

      ok, I give up what lie?

      March 4, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      1) There is no such thing as "Judeo Christian", that's merely a term started after WW II, and has no real meaning. Especially considering that Judaism and Christianity are mutually exclusive religious views.
      2) Creator in the declaration of independence does not equal "Christian god of my interpretation of the bible"
      3) Under god was not added to the pledge until the 1950's, so there is absolutely no tie to us being "founded on judeo christian principles"
      4) The same with our money to a large extent.
      5) Our laws are not based upon a "Judeo Christian World View", and you have yet to make any demonstration of that being true.

      So yes, you are a liar for Jesus, just like Martin Luther says is ok.

      March 4, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      Can you say Mayflower Compact
      "Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic..."

      March 4, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Can you say "irrelevant"? Did the writers of the constitution (the basis of how our country works) take a template from the Mayflower Compact?

      March 4, 2013 at 8:31 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguestr
      You live in a grand cloud of bias where somehow you the atheist actually think you are not bias. If you wrote the Declaration of Independence you would not have included reference to Creator or peti-tioned God (we call that prayer) to bless the foundation of this country. Yet you parade around and make up all these nonsense reasons why the founders and heroes that launched this great country were somehow not Judeo Christian in a narrow sense and in a broad sense.

      Well get a grip. The few atheists that ran about during the founding of this country stayed well hidden in the rocks. The reality is that we were either Christian or Jew and our thoughts and policies reflected the same.

      March 4, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      How sad for you. I called you out on irrelevancies, and you flip it to "well you're just a biased piece of shit so you're wrong". You have still not demonstrated that this country was founded with the intention of it being a "christian nation", nor have you demonstarted that our laws are based on the bible. Is there any more irrelevancies you want to throw out before you run like the coward you are to post the same bullshit another day?

      March 4, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    • fred

      Laws are only meaningful when they are followed. Lucky for you we live in a Judeo Christian World View (at least for 70%+ of America). That being the case we don’t: steal, cheat, murder, etc. Plus we try to Love God with all our hearts). Nice that our laws contain similar words (with the exception of loving God because even God will not force you to love him)

      March 4, 2013 at 9:05 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Oh so there are more irrelevancies you want to throw out there before you run. How nice. So tell me, how does your moronic post address my points?

      March 4, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Laws that we can agree on and that make an ordered society possible are made without the help of God, always have been. God is invoked with its promises and threats in efforts to get everyone to obey.

      March 4, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom the other one
      I do not think we know that. What was set in motion thousands of years ago is part of who we are as people. Moses set down the law and was the prime judge for some time. God always works through His creation to bring about His purpose. If you do not believe in God then you believe in some alternate source for law abiding citizenry (social evolution etc). If you believe in God then you know it was God who established the laws that govern our universe, bring order to our lives and bring about His purpose in creation.

      March 4, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred

      "That being the case we don’t: steal, cheat, murder, etc"

      This is not evidence of a Judeo-Christian world view. Muslims belief the same things are wrong too. (Actually pretty much every society that ever existed on the planet thought they were wrong.)

      March 4, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      "Can you say Mayflower Compact"

      How does the Mayflower Compact represent a founding docvment. The founders of the US landed in Jamestown 16 years earlier. Even in Massachusetts, the Plymouth pilgrims' society was absorbed after the arrival of the Puritans in 1630 some 10 years on. The Compact was irrelevant with the arrival of Winthrop and his fellow zealots.

      One further irony of the compact since you make a point of this quote:

      ""Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King"

      Is this the same proportedly 'evil' King they were 'forced' to escape so they could freely practice their religion? Seems odd that they would dedicate their endeavours to their persecutor, doesn't it? So much revisionist history there. You have to unearth layers and layers of spin to find the truth about what these people really did.

      Colonies were always about business. They were one of the entrepreneurs of their day.

      March 4, 2013 at 9:34 pm |
  19. guest

    How foolish these athiest. I haven't read one reply to this blog, however my first thought was: this could really back-fire.

    March 4, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • on the other hand, facts

      Oh no! Will we be subjected to the blistering, articulate criticisms of the religious right? If only they had had the foresight to avoid this madness!

      March 4, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Doobs

      How about you learn how to spell atheist before you comment on someone else's foolishness.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
  20. Reading

    This article is about attacking Republicans, not Jesus Christ.

    March 4, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      Republicans attack themselves with their small minds and dull tongues, some just point it out.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Which God?

      Uh, wrong. Isn't your jeebus god as well? Both are myths.

      March 4, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Dum dum

      Jesus Christ is not a Republican.

      You think the Republican Party is a myth?

      Is a "myth" just something you don't agree with.

      March 4, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Hmmmmmm

      I think you mythed the point Dum Dum...

      March 4, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.