By Rafael Romo, Jose Manuel Rodriguez and Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN
Buenos Aires (CNN) - Less than an hour after he sent Catholic Church leaders in Argentina a letter in 2010 criticizing the way they were handling the debate over same-sex marriage, Marcelo Marquez says his phone rang.
He was surprised to hear the voice on the other end of the line. It was Jorge Mario Bergoglio, then the archbishop of Buenos Aires, and now the pope.
What Bergoglio said at a meeting they scheduled soon afterward was even more surprising, after months of public criticisms from church officials of a push to legalize same-sex marriage in the South American country.
"He told me. ... 'I'm in favor of gay rights and in any case, I also favor civil unions for homosexuals, but I believe that Argentina is not yet ready for a gay marriage law,'" said Marquez, a gay rights activist, a self-described devout Catholic and a former theology professor at a Catholic seminary.
As archbishop of Buenos Aires, Bergoglio was one of the leaders of the Catholic Church's public charge against legalizing same-sex marriage in Argentina. He engaged in a notorious war of words with the government of President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, which supported the measure.
22-March-2013 - Catholic News Agency
Claims That Pope Supported Gay Civil Unions Disputed
CNA STAFF, March 22 (CNA) .- The director of the Catholic News Agency of Argentina (AICA) has told CNA that claims of Pope Francis supporting gay civil unions when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires are not true.
Miguel Woites, who works directly with the Bishops' Conference of Argentina, the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires and the Apostolic Nunciature, dismissed statementes made by Sergio Rubin, the author of an interview with Cardinal Bergoglio enti.tled "Over Heaven and Earth."
Since Pope Francis' election on March 13, media reports have circulated Rubin's claim that the future Pope had supported h.omos.exual unions as a possible political compromise in Argentinia. Rubin has been the only source used by the media for this claim.
In an article for the Argentinean newspaper Clarin, published on March 14, the day after Pope Francis' election, Rubin wrote, "When debate on the gay marriage bill began in the country, Bergoglio proposed that the bishops adopt a moderate position and perhaps leave room for civil unions as a compromise."
Days later, Rubin told the As.sociated Press that when Cardinal Bergoglio realized that same-s.ex marriage might be legalized, he suggested the Church support civil unions, a position that, according to Rubin, was rejected by the bishops.
Woites told CNA that Rubin's statements about the future Pope Francis "are not true, they are totally inaccurate."
"He never said who said it and when. It's wrong to invent something like this out of thin air. That article was severely criticized by the bishops. He probably was referring to (heteros.exual) domestic partnerships, but not that anything be legalized," Woites said.
He underscored that what Rubin said in his article "is an incorrect statement."
In a letter to the Carmelite nuns of Buenos Aires on July 8, 2010, when the debate on h.omos.exual marriage in the country was in full swing, then-Cardinal Bergoglio wrote, "Let's not be naive: This is a not simple political struggle, but an attempt to destroy God's plan. It is not just a bill but a move of the Father of Lies, who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God."
If Justice Roberts persists in his thinking that the American people deserve exactly the government that they vote for, then I presume we will have a decision shortly in support of gay marriage in America.
Bill and chic
Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !
Where do morals come from?
By Kelly Murray, CNN
Gravity is not up for debate ! ............E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas..........that do not lie or sin !!!..........
BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !
Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet
Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before
Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.
The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?
The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species
Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.
April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |
May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |
Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young
And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !
From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life
the wrong path is Adam and Eve !
Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought
Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.
No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US
Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.
No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !
Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History
Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.
Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute
Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...
Good stuff !
The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !
Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle
Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.
For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !
Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.
Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’
Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
bears his name as the “God particle.”
Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \
Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...
April 7th, 2012
08:32 PM ET
The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth
Make sure to read comments
April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |
NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.
NASA: Mars could have supported life
Star Dust we are
Holy Hallucinations 35
The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !
Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.
BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus
BACKFILL on E =mc2.....
Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'
By Jessica Ravitz, CNN
Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.
“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”
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Cheech & Chong's History of 420
Cheech & Chong's History of 420 from CheechAndChong
All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................
The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.
Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.
Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.
Education works for children
Earth From Space
Detailed satellite images reveal the web of connections that sustain life on Earth. Aired February 13, 2013 on PBS
"Earth From Space" is a groundbreaking two-hour special that reveals a spectacular new space-based vision of our planet. Produced in extensive consultation with NASA scientists, NOVA takes data from earth-observing satellites and transforms it into dazzling visual sequences, each one exposing the intricate and surprising web of forces that sustains life on earth. Viewers witness how dust blown from the Sahara fertilizes the Amazon; how a vast submarine "waterfall" off Antarctica helps drive ocean currents around the world; and how the sun's heating up of the southern Atlantic gives birth to a colossally powerful hurricane. From the microscopic world of water molecules vaporizing over the ocean to the magnetic field that is bigger than Earth itself, the show reveals the astonishing beauty and complexity of our dynamic planet.
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So the bishop of Buenos Aires is a master at double talk ?
The bible has very little if any historic value, and nearly zero factual content, despite what any church will tell you. If you rely only on the bible to make a point, that point is considered worthless because we've already proved the bible worthless as source material. We have to build on the knowledge we have. We cannot continually go back to square one with showing you the bible is false, especially when you will only invoke magic at the end of the discussion.
I actually enjoy the bible (much of its poetic language) quite a bit even if it is pure myth.
Arguments about the percentage of pedophile priest is irrelevant. THERE SHOULDN'T"T BE ANY PERIOD.
Until we can invent some sort of field that fries pedo brains they will always try to get into places that let them access kids. If the priest thing didn't work out, they'd become gym coaches.
I see the mass posters have new names but same old posts
Never seen you around. Name change?
It's funny to see how many comments get completely off track of what the article originally intended to discuss.
How about them Mets?
behind closed doors...
we all know what the pope and his priests do behind close doors. run, choir boys, run!!!
On what factual grounds would you say that the Pope as in Bendict or Francis or John Paull II is/were running after choir boys? And if you were only permitted to get 4% of your pension – you'd say that amount was small – so why are you painting with a broad brush and accusing 96% of priests of what they did not and would not do? Why don't you check out the statistics for other professions – or family members before you make statments that don;t eally reflect the facts about Catholic clergy? So what is your comment really – other than hate speech?
Well since you want to take hyperbole and satirical statements seriously.
Tell me, what other profession asserts that they are the chosen of a god and are able to assert a moral high ground? Do you not expect more of people who make the claims they do? Who presume to speak for millions of people? Are you trying to pawn it off as minor and inconsequential because they're part of a religion?
Other professions don't have a worldwide policy of shielding priests from prosecution, shunting them to new locations so that they can continue, protecting the perpetrator and berating the victim, and stonewalling any attempt to have the truth get out.
The problem is the cover-up. Had the church had exactly the same number of predator priests but aggressively had them prosecuted and defrocked, even seculars would admire the moral properness of the Catholic Church. But they didn't do that.
And on another level, how do people think religion is a source of morality when priests have absolutely no better record of not becoming pedophiles than anyone else? You would think all the religious instruction would ensure significantly lower numbers of predators, but it doesn't at all.
Actually Larry you are still wrong. The rate of priestly pedophilia is 2-4% statistically while it runs 9-13% in the general population and even higher in other vulnerable populations. So priest are typically 4 to 5 times less likely to be molesters than other people.
Way to go though Hawaii. When someone calls you out for being a hateful bigot, just claim that it is satire and humor.
That's even more pathetic than usual for you.
1) Those number are reported cases, and the Vatican has a standing order for all dioces to deal with all of it internally, under penalty of excommunication, which has the added effect of fudging the numbers in your favor.
2) The general population doesn't claim a divine moral high ground and try to thought control 1.2 billion people they think have to agree with then under penalty of eternal torture.
3) Are you at this point claiming that I'm Bootyfunk?
I admit, I didn't notice for a moment but, in fact, Hawaii you are the one defending Booty's bigotry so I stand by my approval of your excusing it as humor. Again, by any empirical measure, the rates of child abuse in the Catholic Church are a fraction of the rates in other populations. One thing that is excessive is the media. Not because the story doesn't need told but because it camoflauges larger crimes in other segments of society. But you know that too, don't you? Also, again, the fact that pedophiles infiltrated the clergy does not mean that all clergy are pedophiles any more than Jerry Sandusky means that all football coaches are. The phenomenon of "circling the wagons" is a distinct and separate issue which occurs in a broad spectrum of organizations from families to corporations to churches. And finally, I'll leave it to you, if you want to put a man on a pedestal simply because he wears a collar, I have no issue with that. I just don't think you should be surprised when he falls unless your original intent was to topple him to begin with.
"The rate of priestly pedophilia is 2-4% statistically while it runs 9-13% in the general population and even higher in other vulnerable populations. So priest are typically 4 to 5 times less likely to be molesters than other people."
I think you are mistakenly comparing reported cases of abuse with estimates of actual abuse, completely different statistics, but cite your sources for confirmation.
Listen you dishonest little tool. You're ignoring the fact that the numbers you're citing are reported, not all encompassing. And if you bothered with some reading comprehension instead of constant dishonesty, you'd see that I have at no point said that all priests are pedophiles. I have, on numerous occasions, pointed out that there is a papal order for priests to not go to authorities outside the church and to not report anything under penalty of excommunication, and you have yet to actually address that.
And finally, you completely lying about me putting any of these people on a pedestal shows another of your common tactics. Do you deny that church hierarchy claim that they get their positions from god and the bible? Are you completely ignoring that they put themselves on a pedestal figuratively and literally?
How about you actually address my posts, but then again that would require you to be honest. Not one of your strong suits.
I see someone is still practicing the art of deflection when it comes to the abuse scandal. No surprise.
Do your own homework instead of criticizing others. I've looked at this for years from so many varied sources I've lost track. You can stack the numbers up under any criteria you choose and you cannot make a case that the Catholic church is more dangerous than the Jewish, the Protestant or the U.S. Public School system. But give it your best shot and when you are done you will still vilify the good Catholics who live honorable lives and who, in fact are victims of the criminals you associate the rest of the religion with.
Bill, what you refuse to address, much less acknowledge, is that no one knows the ACTUAL rates for the RCC because so much of the information has been deliberately hidden or destroyed. I freely acknowledge the truth of the great works of the church in the charitable arena. Modern Catholics will, at some point, need to do the same in regard to the truth of the abuse scandal.
"Do your own homework instead of criticizing others"
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. If you can't back up your numbers then don't post them.
Tell me, can you actually address anything? Can you do anything other than try to squirm your way out of any kind of facts concerning the role of the hierarchy of your church in these cases? Can you do anything other than ignore the content of every post and post completely irrelevant cop-outs? You're pathetic Bill. You can't honestly defend actions that are indefensible, and you're reduced dishonest bullshit.
Bill, could you cite a source for that 9-13% number because I'm pretty sure you're comparing apples to oranges again.
BD translation: "it doesn't happen as often (according to me) as it does elsewhere, so nyah nyah." Completely ignoring the OP, which said IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN AT ALL. Pedophile apologist.
To avoid this all together if you still want to raise your kids in the RCC: NEVER let you child become and alter boy/girl, and NEVER allow your child to be alone with a priest. EVER. Obviously, they're skilled at their insidious crime; it's not like they wear a special collar to advertise they are a pedophile.
Sorry, OP was bootyfunk; Ken Margo said it should happen at all. Which is true.
In the United States the 2004 John Jay Report commissioned and funded by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) was based on volunteer surveys completed by the Roman Catholic dioceses in the United States. The 2004 John Jay Report was based on a study of 10,667 allegations against 4,392 priests accused of engaging in eexual abuse of a minor between 1950 and 2002. The 4,392 priests who were accused amount to approximately 4% of the 109,694 priests in active ministry during that time.
An average of 5.5 children per 10,000 enrolled in day care are sxually abused, an average of 8.9 children out of every 10,000 are abused in the home
Source: Finkelhor & Williams, 1988.
It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sxual abuse in America today.
Source: Forward, 1993.
A seminal British study confirms that a child is safest when his biological parents are married and least safe when his mother is cohabiting with a man other than her husband. Specifically, the Family Court Reporter Survey for England and Wales presents concrete evidence that children are 20 to 33 times safer living with their biological married parents than in other family configurations.
If you never want anything bad to happen to your children, wrap them in bubble wrap, place them in a concrete bunker and bury them underground. As admirable as a zero tolerance policy for sxual abuse from clergy AND other segments of society might be, it shows how completely pie in the sky some people are regarding the reality of life.
If there are 60 million child seex abuse survivors survivors in America today and the Catholic clergy are responsible for 11,000 of them since 1950, who do we talk to about the other 59 million, 9 hundred and 89 thousand?
Those are the KNOWN victims, Bill. When will there be full disclosure ?
Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll.
Are you actually going to address the posts? Or are you going to continue to lie for Jesus. You should be an orthodox Lutheran.
The transparency of your ploy is so obvious and weak. First make a broad sweeping statement about Catholics in general based on the crimes of a small percentage. Don't back it up with any data. Then attack the integrity of any one who comes forward for a reasonable discussion. Again, don't provide any data supporting your initial bigotry. Challenge your opponent to provide data but disqualify it out of hand as in sufficient, biased, skewed or irrelevant because your charge shifts from the original issue to events subsequent. Maintain your offense, attack, attack, attack, no data though. Really don't you get tired of yourself?
Meanwhile 59 million American children abused while you excoriate 4 thousand priests. Big defenders of justice and child welfare. You disgust me.
You cited a voluntary survey you dishonest dumbass. Since when is a voluntary survey 100% accurate? The ONLY claim I made was that there is a standing order within the catholic church to NOT report these cases to the proper authorities and at every turn you avoid addressing that. YOU are the disgusting piece of shit because you consistently refuse to address the points, and you twist every which way to avoid any kind of criticism of your church. You are a bigoted, immoral little robot willing to overlook any kind of atrocity that's cloaked in your religion. You're a sick piece of shit willing to lie and spin anything to protect those immoral shit shuffling around these priests and paying off their victims to keep quiet to avoid ANY responsibility.
Hmm and Haw all you fucking want Bill, anyone with an ounce of humanity left in them can see the criminal actions of the church, and your constant dishonest defense is a testament to how much of an evil fuck you are.
Bill, the transparency of YOUR agenda could not be more obvious, more disingenuous, or more disgusting. Will you EVER admit that no one knows the true extent of abuse scandal, and that the cover-up continues to this day ?
And Bill will now, being the immoral piece of shit he is, will either continue being as dishonest as possible, or he will run now that his source has been completely debunked. Just like with the criticisms of that evil hag Mother Theresa.
What a pathetic little coward.
"If you never want anything bad to happen to your children, wrap them in bubble wrap, place them in a concrete bunker and bury them underground. As admirable as a zero tolerance policy for sxual abuse from clergy AND other segments of society might be, it shows how completely pie in the sky some people are regarding the reality of life."
Are you kidding me? Are you even kidding me? Remove the need for bubble wrap withing the RCC BY REMOVING AND PROSECTUTING THE PEDO PRIESTS INSTEAD OF PROTECTING THEM!
If the idea of not letting kids EVER be alone with a priests offends you, well, it shows just what lengths YOU would go through to apologize for the church. Sounds like you equate the hazards of falling down and scraping their knees to the plight of raped children by your beloved criminal priests.
YOU shouldn't want anything to happen to those kids, either, you pedophile priest apologist. The RCC continuously drops the ball, and you continuously excuse them.
You are the disgusting one, Deacon, in more ways than one. No amount of confession is going to salve those raped kid's wounds.
YOU REALLY DON'T GET THAT IT'S THE COVER-UP, AND NOT THE CHURCH ITSELF, THAT BOTHERS PEOPLE, DO YOU?
Take your blinders off, Bill. Your church is guilty of a conspiracy to cover up crime. If you approve, you're an enabler, and are a truly depraved person.
Why do chritians hate gays so much. Jesus loved everyone. Do christians hate Jesus?
Not unprecedented in the RCC hierarchy, speak out against a policy in public but have a much different personal opinion just keep to the Vatican ordered script. Kind of reminds you of the story of Cardinal Keith O'Brien condemning gay practices while being in the closet himself, the RCC at its best.
Morning JMEF Now it would be NICE for the RCC to acknowledge the fake origin story................... might help maybe.
Cardinal Keith O'Brien Acknowledges Se-xual Misconduct – NYTimes ..
Mar 3, 2013 – Cardinal Keith O'Brien, Britain's top Roman Catholic cleric and the head of the Scottish church, is the highest-ranking priest in recent history to ...
O'brien is the textbook definition of a hypocrite. His role in the cover-up of ped priests needs to be proesecuted. The hypocrisy of his actions regarding the gay thing doesn't bother me as much as his crimes of conspiracy to cover up. Freaking throw his hypocritical ass in prison.
The RCC should come clean about the fake origin story might help ? The talking snake thing .
Skulls of Early Humans Carry Telltale Signs of Inbreeding
Mar. 18, 2013 — Buried for 100,000 years at Xujiayao in the Nihewan Basin of northern China, the recovered skull pieces of an early human exhibit a now-rare congenital deformation that indicates inbreeding might well have been common among our ancestors, new research from the Chinese Academy of Sciences and Washington University in St. Louis suggests
Mind mapping NO GOD(S) REQUIRED!
Gone but Not Forgotten: Yearning for Lost Loved Ones Linked to Altered Thinking About the Future
Mar. 18, 2013 — People suffering from complicated grief may have difficulty recalling specific events from their past or imagining specific events in the future, but not when those events involve the partner they lost, according to a new study published in Clinical Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science.
Maybe the bible needs to be updated
The Vatican doesn't teach that the Genesis creation story is literally true – they maintain that it is symbolic.
Popes Pius XII and John Paul II did a great deal to help bring the church into the 20th century by accepting scientific findings that negated a literal Genesis interpretation like evolution, astrology and geology.
It's pretty much just the American fundies that cling to biblical literalism in the modern world.
They are the ones messing with the other artcle be NICE !
Oops the afterlife !
You meant astronomy, right?
I'll believe it when I see the pope say it on tape. If the pope is a truthful man, he will be honest about whether he said it or not.
I'm curious: what is the meaning of your posts?
Darren, then they'd merely be in the same state as all religious believers.
Pastors and priests are having a tough time dealing with moral issues.
Looks like business as usual to me.
So he publicly stoond against what he stood for. Sounds like moral cowardice. Or a failed attempt at revisionist history to make the neopope not seem so intolerant.
I really hope this is true.
Sorry Hubert, It's not
Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal troll. What part of the story do you claim is not true? Franky was in favor of civil unions and against gay marriage, what is the un-truth?
So the Pope didn't say that?
What do you know that we don't, Bill?
Akira, I believe it is certainly possible that the pope may have expressed concern, compassion, and personal support for someone who advocates gay marriage. But unless I am mistaken, the sacrament of marriage between a man and woman is dogmatic and the pope, as such, does not have the ability to change that, even if he wanted to.
Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll. You did not answer the question, what is untrue about the story? Franky was okay with civil unions for gays but against gay marriage, that all the story states, you do not have to go into apologist mode.
Note the careful phrasing of the headline –
"Civil Unions" are a legal matter and not the same thing as marriage.
My partner and I have been in a "civil union" for almost a decade, but we're not married.
We live together, raise out child together, have a shared bank account, file taxes together, have power of attourney, share work benefits etc. but have never had any kind of ceremony, least of all one officiated by a shaman.
Good point Doc. I think if you listen closely to the pope and other Bishops you may begin to hear them declare that governments might advance civil union legislation or even marriage. As far as the Church doctrine goes, I can't see it happening though. So what we are faced with is a divergence between the community of faith and the secular government. Further, I maintain, as a Catholic that religions who are twisting in the wind to accommodate gay marriage agendas are simply practicing appeasement.
Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll. You still have not stated what is not true in the story, try Bill.
Sorry you missed the point DD. Allow me to restate. Regardless of the pope's personal feelings on gay rights, he has no power to change the doctrine of the Church regarding the sacrament of marriage or any sacrament for that matter. Also, while he has a platform to make world wide pronouncements on any number of matters, since he is not an official of any government in the world save the Vatican, he has a limited effect on public policy matters. Otherwise the secularists, at least in America, will scream bloody murder.
Do you ask the pope? How do you know that what the article states is not true?
Hubert, what I am telling you is that it doesn't matter what the pope says or how he feels in support of gay marriage. He does not have the power to change the sacrament and only a limited ability to influence governments.
I was only referring to his personal support for civil unions. I couldn't give less of a fvck about catholic sacraments.
If this is true, I have to say I am surprised.
Wow – I wonder if there is any record that those were his exact words.
So do I. This could turn out to be the best thing to ever happen to gay rights, if true.
Bet it'd drive the atheists nuts though.
I must not be familiar with the same atheists as you are. I know of no atheist who would be bothered by the pope having such an opinion. It would seem the opposite to me, actually.
Why would the pope's support of gay rights bother atheist?
Darren probably thinks it would diffuse one of the objections church haters (as opposed to atheists) have to the Church, erroneously referred to as hating gays.
Um, no, Darren used the word atheist, Bill; not church haters, not RCC haters, etc.
Yes, I think he is not making the distinction. I could see how church haters would fume if the pope came out in support of gay marriage since it would take that particular argument off the table. Atheists who have no interest in the marriage debate would probably remain disinterested. In fact, if I were an atheist, I probably wouldn't even be interested that there was a new pope.
Actually ra-pe is a-o-k in the Bible.
Oh, bullshit, Douglas. Jesus said that what sin you judge others on, it will be visited upon you, also. You are guilty of "gay coitus". You will be condemned along with those you condemn. Groe the hell up and shut up.
Akira's logic is sound. Yours, however, is not. Time to get past your bias and show the same tolerance Jesus did, hypocrite.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.