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The money man behind atheism’s activism
Todd Stiefel, a wealthy businessman, is responsible for bank rolling many atheism activism projects.
March 23rd, 2013
10:00 PM ET

The money man behind atheism’s activism

By Dan Merica, CNN

(CNN) - Todd Stiefel is far from a household name, and the odds he gets recognized on a street corner, even in his hometown of Raleigh, North Carolina, are small.

For Stiefel, a slim, scruffy ex-Catholic, his public persona is his wallet and activism. Through the Stiefel Freethought Foundation, the 38-year-old has made an indelible impact on the nation’s fastest-growing “religious” group: the nonbelievers. Most of the highest-profile atheists campaigns –- flashy billboards in high-traffic areas, news-making efforts to get atheists to come out of the closet, and boisterous rallies - are funded by his fortune.

Stiefel isn’t shy about his far-reaching goals.

“What I am trying to accomplish is multifold, he told CNN. “I consider myself working on the next civil equality movement, just like women’s rights, LGBT rights and African-American Civil Rights. We are still in the early stages of eliminating discrimination against atheists and humanists. That is something I really want to accomplish.”

So far, Stiefel has pumped $3.5 million into those aspirations, and his money benefits a number of atheist organizations, from the Clergy Project, a group that helps atheist and doubting clergy out of the closet, to American Atheists, arguably the most in-your-face atheist group in the country.

Stiefel sees his work as far more than just money. For him, this is just the beginning.

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From Catholic school to atheist millionaire

Stiefel was born in Albany, New York, in 1974 to Catholic parents. He was raised in a Catholic household, confirmed in the church, attended Sunday school, went to a Catholic high school.

“I was a cross-wearing, praying, religious-retreat Catholic,” Stiefel said. “You could say there were points that I felt the spirit.”

But his faith, he said, fluctuated during high school. “I was always a skeptic,” he said, “and I always asked a lot of questions.”

At 18, Stiefel attended Duke University to pursue a degree in psychology. To fill an elective, he took an Old Testament history class at the Duke University Divinity School. It was there, he said, that his final “ebb” away from belief took hold.

In the class, Stiefel said he saw a flawed logic in the Old Testament. In particular, he said, he began to see much of the Old Testament as unoriginal stories that had been told in many pagan traditions.

“'Wait a second, is what I believe in really the truth or is it really the accumulation of myths bundled in a package?’” Stiefel remembers asking himself. “That was the end of my faith right there.”

After graduating from Duke, Stiefel went into the family business: Stiefel Laboratories, a company that develops products to combat skin diseases. For 12 years, Stiefel worked with his family and turned the business into a major player in their specialized market.

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In 2009, with Stiefel in an executive position, the Stiefel family opted to sell the company to GlaxoSmithKline. The price tag: $2.9 billion, according to media reports at the time.

“I only got a very small piece of that, for the record,” Stiefel said with a laugh. “I did, however, find myself in a unique and fortunate position where I was able to do whatever I wanted to do.”

And like many who have the luxury of doing exactly what they want, Stiefel began thinking about what he was truly passionate about. After kicking around the idea of starting another business, the answer became clear to the young millionaire: advocating for atheism.

“I wanted to try to help the world,” he said. “I wanted to give back and this seemed like the most productive way to help humanity.”

‘Just doing my part’

Stiefel put $2 million in to begin his foundation. In his first year, according to tax documents, the nonprofit disbursed $700,000 to groups like the Secular Coalition for America, the American Humanist Association and Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

In 2010 and 2011, the giving continued with the foundation distributing around $750,000 to different atheist and humanist causes. In 2011, he also pumped another $500,000 into his foundation.

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“I am just doing my part within my means,” he said. “Different people have different means. I am doing what I can do, just like the rest of the people in the movement are.”

But recipients of the money, such as David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, see his impact as much greater than just a one-off activist.

“Todd is an example of what major contributions can accomplish for atheism,” he said. “From a donation stand point, he is really leading the movement to a different level.”

Walking the line

One of Stiefel’s major concerted contributions in the last three years was the Reason Rally, an event held on the National Mall in Washington, which was billed as a watershed moment in the atheism movement. The goal of the event was to show to religious Americans that atheism was a powerful minority in American life.

Stiefel speaks onstage at the Reason Rally.

The rally drew a number of high-profile speakers, including Richard Dawkins, the author of “The God Delusion,” and thousands of attendees, despite rainy weather.

In his speech to the crowd, Stiefel talked about what he sees as the most important problem facing atheism: “Discrimination comes from ignorance, and in this case it is ignorance about our beliefs,” he said. “We are told freethinkers believe in nothing, but that’s a misunderstanding. We believe in a lot of things; we don’t all believe the same things.”

Stiefel put $250,000 toward the rally, a contribution that Silverman, the organizer, said was critical.

“He brought the Reason Rally to a brand new level,” Silverman said. Without that money, “we would have had far fewer people and a far smaller event.”

Silverman and the Reason Rally advocated for a specific brand of atheism. Silverman, who regularly calls his group the “Marines of the Freethought Movement,” is not shy in making it clear that he views his goal in calling out religion and elevating atheism.

Stiefel says he doesn't necessarily endorse those tactics wholly, but he does see their validity.

“I try to walk a line,” he said. “I see religious criticism as valuable, and groups like American Atheists are good at that. I do think we have to have a dialogue about who has the right ideas and part of that is pointing out the flaws in religious ideas.”

Stiefel continued: “I also see inter-belief work, though. I do find a lot of value in inter-belief work and I do see a lot of value in general charity work.”

Evidence of that is his work on cancer fundraising.

In 2012, Stiefel approached the Foundation Beyond Belief with an idea of creating networks of nonbelievers around the country to help raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Stiefel tapped into his atheist network and began organizing different event.

In total, the atheist groups raised $430,000 in 2012, including a $215,000 donation from Stiefel and his wife, Diana.

“Across the country there are 150 local groups of atheists and freethinkers raising money for charity,” Stiefel said proudly.

The key, however, was bridging the gap between atheist and religious communities in the name of charity.

“We welcomed Christians, as well,” he said. “Some of our biggest fundraisers were Christians.”

For 2013, the goal is to raise $500,000.

Expanding the community

With money and resolve comes great influence for Stiefel. He has the ear of many atheist leaders, meaning he can dictate the movement’s focus.

Stiefel said he wants to see the atheism movement expand its footprint.

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“What I would really like to see is expanding out communities to people who may not just be atheists or agnostics and into people who are religiously skeptical and may still have some religious beliefs,” he said. “Nobody is a perfect skeptic and I would like to see more people like that in our community.”

For Stiefel, this is a personal priority. He says his wife, whom he describes as a skeptical Christian, is someone who would fall within an expanded atheist movement.

“My message is not only of anti-theism,” Stiefel said. “I don’t choose to attack religion itself. I see religion as something that provides both good and ill to the world.”

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism

soundoff (7,617 Responses)
  1. who

    cares coolaid

    March 25, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
  2. Blessed are the Cheesemakers

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyHgGWFwDbg&w=640&h=390]

    March 25, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Funny – I wonder if the people who think this way would understand the joke.

      March 26, 2013 at 8:48 am |
  3. Dr. Evil

    Does anyone else think that the Austin story is going to end with major headlines and widespread public outcry to ban something?

    March 25, 2013 at 10:51 pm |
    • Austin

      # 6 dreamed i was touring a house and went out back and there was an ABOVE ground pool with an flush deck and a privacy fence right around the deck.

      two days later the kid sleeping next to me pulled out a piece of paper , sheldon clay was his name, and he showed me his blue print he drew, of a new house, with an above ground swimming pool , with a flush deck around the pool, and a privacy fence on the deck.

      #7 this kid on night threw a roll a tp and racked me. I was furious and said to myself, I wonder if he has the light in his eye. and then i rebuked my judgment of his spiritual condition. THE NEXT MORNING he woke up and came up to me and said, "i had a dream last night that i was going around to see who had a special light in their eye to see if they were possessed or not"
      this kid was not a bible verse type of guy.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
    • clarity

      Ban what? Texting while driving nude??

      March 25, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Ban cat snuff films...

      March 25, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
    • Rolo Tomasi

      Maybe we should report Austin's squish-kitty hobby to PETA.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
    • Austin

      Those two dreams about were within like 3 weeks max of each other and within a month or two of like 7 other experiences like that involving the revelation of scripture?

      God was showing me that not only can he reveal His word in supernatural power, but He can also work miracles through other people without them knowing what the heck is going on at all. He is so unbelievably sovereign it is ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE AND AWESOME. HE HAS SO MUCH POWER WE SHOULD ALL HIT THE FLOOR ON OUR FACES AND COVER OUR SINFUL HEADS AT HIS PRESENCE.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      I really hope you no longer have access to pick-up trucks, or any motorized vehicle for that matter. Or guns. Or knives. Or pointed sticks. No matches, flammable liquids, baseball bats, etc. Yeah, none of that.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:40 pm |
    • Austin

      I am in the excavation and grading business. Farming and landscaping trucks, and 3 dump trucks. I haul bobcat, and tractors, and sod with International dump trucks and 28 foot trailer. Arborist (tree work) dangerous work.
      At one time 4 years ago I had over 10 trucks. and that was 7 years after I was in trouble.

      they know that there are good poeple who arent criminals who end up in court. i dont steal or lie or cheat. I dont bother other people..

      March 25, 2013 at 11:57 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      You smashed your truck through multiple churches and meant to smash the state capitol, and you think you AREN'T a criminal?!?!

      Really now.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:08 am |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      Just a few days ago Austin claimed his work was purely with senior citizens who counted on him.

      For their excavation, grading and dump truck needs?

      March 26, 2013 at 12:15 am |
    • Austin

      rollo, that is right. I am not a criminal. criminals go to prison. Criminals are people who assault and rob and sell drugs.

      and alcoholic is not a criminal. someone who has an emotional breakdown or crisis is not a criminal. thanks for asking.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:18 am |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      Austin, you are a felon, which by definition makes you a criminal.

      You are an alcoholic too? I mean, I knew that by your stories, but you realize it?

      March 26, 2013 at 12:26 am |
    • Austin

      Rollo, I have received a calling by God most high. I am a child of God. My slate is wiped clean. And without the atonement for sin, any atheist judge will burn in hell, but I will not. I was playing ball in the court of God. The court room you speak of is where people wear costumes . And I should pay taxes, but I am not bound by the heathen system by any label.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:45 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      God sacrifices cats so Austin can live...

      March 26, 2013 at 1:50 am |
    • sam stone

      Not all people who sell drugs are criminals, Austin

      March 26, 2013 at 6:39 am |
    • sam stone

      Austin: It looks like you have exchanged one drug (alcohol) for another (god)

      March 26, 2013 at 7:00 am |
  4. Austin

    Hawaii Guest, The Holy Spirit will demonstrate within you . You wont get that if you don't hear God first on the sin issue. You wont believe me, because you all ready despise what God has said? My advice, is open your eyes, look out of your head and start perceiving evil for what it truly is, and then ask God to forgive you for the personal downfalls you can own up to, and then He will teach you reality. And the things that seem outlandish to you right now, just set them aside and after you see evil for what it is, if you get that opportunity, then you will see those issues differently.

    Evil temptation is an attack with the intent to destroy. Deceit, and unbelief, is oppression that is there to kill you , imprison your soul, and make you suffer . Not being able to truly understand evil, is also a grip that Satan has on people.

    Once you reach out to God, then Satan will attack you and even try to kill you if approach salvation. Physically, and undoubtedly spiritually.

    March 25, 2013 at 10:36 pm |
    • Austin

      I meant to post as a reply woops.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • Answer

      Full of shiat. As usual.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Austin

      You have demonstrated your insanity once again. I said that what you can actually demonstrate matters, and you come back with a long, rambling, delusional, and paranoid take on confirmatory bias. Congrats.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:38 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      Austin, do you actually believe that when people read the stuff you do and those really out-there visions, that they actually think "Wow! He must know what he is talking about! I mean, a guy who did his own naked monster truck rally through some churches, and hallucinates about how squish-kitties are God talking to him, that guy MUST know all about God!"

      Do you really not recognize how severely you have discredited yourself?

      March 25, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
    • ..

      Squish kitties. That made me crack up!

      March 25, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
    • Austin

      If we were having to obtain salvation or the grace and voice of God by being sinless, we would all perish. Rollo, you could not be further off. and the evidence that you can be sure of this, is in your expression "squish or kitty" because.

      The dream was about a demonic divination, where a demon gave me actual factual knowledge about an event. A bloody cat, a dead cat. So for you to say that this is discrediting evidence.....

      this is actually stubborn rejection of credible evidence. There are witnesses in the courts, every day thousands of them in the country, who have criminal records..............RIGHT OR WRONG? CAN A CRIMINAL TELL THE TRUTH........YES OR NO?

      You are the master at exploiting a situation for your own satisfaction or maneuvering.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • Squish-Kitty

      I don't find that funny at all!

      March 25, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      I asked you if you actually believed that you had any credibility. Not surprisingly, you staggered off into left field somewhere.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
    • Austin

      Did the apostle Paul have credibility?

      Is God's sovereign Holy Spirit , who revealed .spiritual reality to me credible? Is a miracle a credible experience?

      March 25, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
    • Austin

      If I experienced a supernatural revelation, is that a credible experience? Can i be honest with myself?

      March 25, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      In what part of the Bible does Paul describe driving a pick-up truck naked through synagogues?

      I think it's a hoot that Austin believes he is the new Paul!

      March 25, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
    • eduN

      Adam and Eve sinned and they became ashamed of their sin and they hid, and realized they were naked and were ashamed. And they clothed themselves. And then God demonstrated the first substi.tutionary death and made them tunics of skin.

      ◄ Genesis 2:17 ►
      but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

      March 25, 2013 at 11:10 pm |
    • clarity

      I think you've hit on something here, Austin. We have to consider that Paul could have been as crazy as you.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:12 pm |
    • Austin

      they guy admitted to overseeing the killing of Christians. Everyone has allready head the story and understood the character of God being merciful and gracious. Now here I am with a current demonstration of Gods sovereign ability and you all are just being stubborn and begging for excuses to deny what I say.

      hey, for a million dollars, I want to do that one guys program where if someone can prove it they get paid. I am your guy!!!!!!!!

      March 25, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      Yeah, you really should do that, Austin. That's a really good idea. I'm sure you will get that million.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:46 pm |
    • ..

      "You are the master at exploiting a situation for your own satisfaction or maneuvering."
      Isn't this exactly what you're doing, Austin?

      March 25, 2013 at 11:46 pm |
    • ..

      "hey, for a million dollars, I want to do that one guys program where if someone can prove it they get paid. I am your guy!!!!!!"

      Yeah, typical Christian preacher, in it for the money.
      Sweetie, pooky, punkin Austin, you have proved it to yourself. And that's fine. You have convinced us, however, that you're a little...touched.
      You would make an awesome contestant, though; comedic gold, that's for sure.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:52 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      So just what does it mean "to exploit a situation for your own maneuvering"?

      March 25, 2013 at 11:55 pm |
    • Austin

      Hey retard.............do you think I would take that million and put it in my bank? No way would I rob God. I might take a months wage at ten bucks an hour and I would donate every last penny of the rest.

      I would never take God's money from Him. If He makes His name known, then it is a blessing for His own Glory , not mine. I dont need money. I live on the word of God.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:00 am |
    • Austin

      what was they guys first name, was his last name Rand? was it Phillip Rand who offers the million for the proof.?

      March 26, 2013 at 12:02 am |
    • PaulB

      Austin
      Why does God need money?

      Reminds me of when Capt. Kirk asked why God would need a Starship?

      March 26, 2013 at 12:22 am |
    • Austin

      Paul, people need money. And god creates blessing as mercy and compassion. The bible talked a lot about money. It was to reach out, the purpose.

      Giving to the church meant giving to the poor. Your basic socialistic old testament synagogue community.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:29 am |
    • PaulB

      Austin
      Too often, it seems, giving to a church means helping to pay for some pastor's fancy new suits, or shiny, expensive, new car. It often also means supporting missionary work that's mostly interested in signing up new members than actually helping them. Sometimes it goes towards idiotic programs designed to undercut science, or some politician and more of the money goes towards supporting other political agendas. After all that, and more, a tiny sliver might go towards helping the poor, but the poor often don't get helped until they sit through the religious pitch, which makes it about as "charitable" as a Time-Share breakfast. Churches are as much businesses as McDonalds, doing about as much real charity as well.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:45 am |
    • Austin

      667 new people came to a saving relationship with Christ at my small church of 4000 . The holy spirit has an authentic ministry and this is the ministry I support, including 88 missions in 51 countries. I have experienced the revealing holy spirit who bears truth supernaturally. He is risen.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:56 am |
    • Donna

      Austin
      667 out of 4000. So, you're saying that going to your church gets a person a 1 in 6 chance of improving them the way your church says it can?

      Not very impressive, sorry.

      March 26, 2013 at 1:18 am |
    • Austin

      No donna, the 4000 were already members and supposedly saved .or have children.....

      Ok the 667 was in one year how many new people came to faith in Christ. That represents church growth. We went from 2 service times to four and we bought another campus .

      March 26, 2013 at 1:24 am |
    • Here Ya' Go

      Austin,

      Here ya' go with the supernatural challenge:

      http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

      The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal/supernatural/occult claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.

      The prize is over $1.3 million now.

      March 26, 2013 at 1:36 am |
    • The Non Believer

      We don't believe you because you're barking mad.

      March 26, 2013 at 6:45 am |
    • ..

      So the asshole who drives through churches, naked and drunk, and who is going to take in his dream journal in as evidence of God to win a million bucks calls ME a retard? Freaking lunatic. Go back to plowing your back forty, doltus erectus.

      March 26, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge

      Austin “I want to do that one guys program where if someone can prove it they get paid. I am your guy!!!!!!!!”

      Austin “I want to do that one guys program where if someone can prove it they get paid. I am your guy!!!!!!!!”

      The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.
      At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."
      To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests.

      Google James Randi

      March 26, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • ME II

      @Austin,
      "hey, for a million dollars, I want to do that one guys program where if someone can prove it they get paid. I am your guy!!!!!!!!"

      Please do. Any solid evidence at all of paranormal/supernatural would open up whole new areas of investigation and research. To date that hasn't been the case.

      March 26, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
  5. plenty of supernatural

    there is proof of the supernatural. I have proof.

    i am going through this again...
    all of the dreams I had, that I discern were visioins, were because I was having dreams that were LEADING what my reality and awake life was about to actually present to me. Did I know when i wrote them down, or expect, for these dreams to be doing such a thing? there were a few where I knew that I could expect something. and they did hit .

    two nights in a row, and a little space between the third dream,

    #1I dreamt about the tile patio , a huge and beautiful rock tile with wide grout and a beautiful pattern and color, ater i had entered a stone arch entrance. There was an arm reaching into a whole, a whole chizzeled out of the ground. and the arm pulled out a leather bag full of gems. wrote these down in the middle or the night half asleep. The next day....I kept reading my bible.......

    Jeremiah 43:8-13
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    8 Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah in Tahpanhes, saying, 9 “Take some large stones in your [a]hands and hide them in the mortar in the brick terrace which is at the entrance of Pharaoh’s [c]palace in Tahpanhes, in the sight of [d]some of the J.ews; 10 and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, “Behold, I am going to send and get Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and I am going to set his throne right over these stones that I have hidden; and he will spread his canopy over them.

    #2 the next night I dreamed that i was being attacked by a motorcycle gang and that the leader of the gang had a huge animal horn, att.atched to his seat. he could not even sit on his bike. he was trying to run me over. they were a rebel gang.
    the next day, i had finished reading Jeremiah and gotten into Lament.ations

    ◄ Lament.ations 2:3 ►

    New International Version (©2011)
    In fierce anger he has cut off every horn of Israel. He has withdrawn his right hand at the approach of the enemy. He has burned in Jacob like a flaming fire that consumes everything around it.
    ◄ Lament.ations 2:17 ►

    New International Version (©2011)
    The LORD has done what he planned; he has fulfilled his word, which he decreed long ago. He has overthrown you without pity, he has let the enemy gloat over you, he has exalted the horn of your foes.

    I DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BOOK OF JEREMIAH AND THE STONES, AND I HAD NO RECOLLECTION OF LAMENTA.TIONS. i COULD NOT HAVE TOLD YOU WHAT ONE MAIN POINT WAS OTHER THAN I KNEW JEREMIAH WAS A PROPHET.

    #3 a few days later I had a dream that there was a huge pile of feathers underneath a bed. that day, I was reading in the book of daniel, ◄ Daniel 4:33 ►

    New International Version (©2011)
    Immediately what had been said about Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled. He was driven away from people and ate grass like the ox. His body was drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair grew like the feathers of an eagle and his nails like the claws of a bird.

    the kid who i had the dream about, got into trouble that day, which i had suspected the feather was a sign that he would be humiliated. he had his work pass suspended which was a major blow.

    #4 dreamed I was poisoned by mercury in alcohol. the next dream, didnt have a single dream for two weeks, this next dream I had just let two snakes out of a cage. one was a viper, the other was a rattler. but I had not thought even thought the word viper for a long time. when i woke up, i said to the kid next to me................."something is going to happen today, this one is a sign" i knew the snakes were a sign..

    two hours later i went down to bible study, the leader, on the second passage, said turn to proverbs 23:32

    29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
    Who has strife? Who has complaints?
    Who has needless bruises? Who has blo.odshot eyes?
    30 Those who linger over wine,
    who go to sample bowls of mixed wine.
    31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red,
    when it sparkles in the cup,
    when it goes down smoothly!
    32 In the end it bites like a snake
    and poisons like a viper.

    #5 Dreamed i was in a wh.ore house and I flooded it because i turned on a water spitot upstairs and just let it go and left it on. I had been praying about lust. I didnt catch this dream, until a few week later i did a study on water. I had no clue about this dream. i seemed like a random joke. but i got kicked out for letting the water run and flood.

    15 Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well. 16 Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? 17 Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers. 18 May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 A loving doe, a graceful deer– may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be intoxicated with her love. 20 Why, my son, be intoxicated with another man's wife? Why embrace the bosom of a wayward woman? 21 For your ways are in full view of the LORD, and he examines all your paths. 22 The evil deeds of the wicked ensnare them; the cords of their sins hold them fast.

    # 6 dreamed i was touring a house and went out back and there was an ABOVE ground pool with an flush deck and a privacy fence right around the deck.

    two days later the kid sleeping next to me pulled out a piece of paper , sheldon clay was his name, and he showed me his blue print he drew, of a new house, with an above ground swimming pool , with a flush deck around the pool, and a privacy fence on the deck.

    #7 this kid on night threw a roll a tp and racked me. I was furious and said to myself, I wonder if he has the light in his eye. and then i rebuked my judgment of his spiritual condition. THE NEXT MORNING he woke up and came up to me and said, "i had a dream last night that i was going around to see who had a special light in their eye to see if they were possessed or not"
    this kid was not a bible verse type of guy.

    #8 had a dream that the kid who was ripping on me lost his money
    a month later i over heard him talking about how he lost his money, and i said watch this, and pulled out the dream i had that he had lost it.

    #9 the cat dream. I had a cat at my house, that night i dreamed that a demonic voice sang to me which inverted my body and then presented the same cat, covered in blood.

    I woke up and the cat was dead in the highway, 550 feet from my house.

    #10 I had a dream i was inside the st. louis arch and I was in there with my cousin, and she was pointing at a glass case , with a bust of someone. she said "look, its thomas Jefferson" and the place was very nice. very expensive and ritzy.

    I had no idea what the st. louis arch was about. but what i had been doing, was getting heavily into the rumors about masons, and this dream just came to me. and when I googled this and I started trembling . this is called "a word of knowledge" which is a type of spiritual gift.

    There have been numerous other ones that I believe were spiritual words of knowledge that i wont get in to .

    None of this stuff, is me trying to fit things together. everything i dreamed, and then experienced in real life as i have stated. Some of these, are totally obvious. others, I have complete faith that they were also spiritual revelations, because I know %100 that some were, so I can have faith that others probably were too. and 8 of the first ten there, all happened in jail.

    This is organized, and relevant information that is a dream, relating to reality that i was about to live.

    That is spiritual revelation.

    March 25, 2013 at 10:05 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Oh look, Austin has found another tag to troll with.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    • Answer

      DUI and felony – Austin.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • Austin

      ya , well we are all justified. and that is good news. I was a felon, and I did get a dui. so this translates into grace and mercy. because despite my downfalls, God has lit me up with faith and I you should know, I don't play with mechanical psychology and fake religion.

      God is alive. He is risen. and I may have gotten a ticket, but i can tell you right now that my testimony is true to the cause. God reveals Himself within a saved person . He ministers.

      My experience is different, and if is true. I have good news for you. You are forgiven and Jesus loves you.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:15 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Austin

      And once again, no matter how many times you say "if ____ is true" is irrelevant. What matters is what you can actually demonstrate.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
    • Foul-tempered mutant sea bass, sadly without with a fricking laser on my head

      Funny how God chooses to "light up" people like Austin, the Son of Sam (now the "Son of Hope"), and the Manson Girls. You would think he would be just a bit more loving and revelatory towards the people who haven't done anything evil than the ones who had.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
    • Pumpkin Carving by Doris

      You can make a lovely Charles Manson pumpkin for Halloween. To make a Jesus pumpkin,
      do exactly the same pattern, but just tilt the "X" over his forehead up into a cross.

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h_T3EYCsKI&w=640&h=390]

      March 25, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • Austin

      The bible is the opposite of this last comment. Time after time, Moses dumped in the river, Joseph dumped in a whole and lost to slavery, the miracles Jesus did were for the needy, the sick, Jesus approached the tax collectors and sinners, He rebuked the pharasees. Paul killed Christians before He became one. The story about the two criminals dying with Jesus...........

      I can understand that it seems rediculous for you to hear this from me, with a record. but I am telling the truth. Salvation is offered to anyone and everyone. This is why God used Paul. God is just. And He is a respecter of no man, yet He loves us all. Thank goodness you dont have to live up to a bunch ofself righteouss pharasees when it comes to approaching God.. Would you want to live under the Mosaic law? We are under grace.

      Grace and Mercy and Gods blessings for one and all.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • clarity

      I get the feeling that when someone starts quoting Lamentations, they're not getting out much.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Austin

      So all you have is more empty platitudes, assertions, and reiterations rather than actually demonstrating anything you say is even likely to be true. Do you have any concept of the word "demonstrable"? Do you have any concept of the phrase "pathetic religious zealot"?

      March 25, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • Austin

      I could prove it you if God feels like working through me. all i would have to do is get isolated, get tv and radio taken away, and give my time to a solitary environment, and start writing my dreams down.

      And if is Gods will, I will prove it. now how am i supposed to do this and pay my mortgate and keep my business going? I am serious though. I am down.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      Why do you think that writing your dreams down will convince anybody of anything? Look how disastrously badly you have fared here telling your dreams. More detail won't help.

      And just what do you think Jesus would have said to, say, Phillip if Phil had said, "Gee, I'd like to follow you and help out and all, Jesus, but I got rocks to stack and bills to pay."

      You are pretty darn wishy-washy for a prophet who has been given so many divine revelations.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:53 pm |
    • Austin

      because you cant prove God to an unbeliever. and unbeliever cant really come to true faith without the Holy Spirit. If the spirit wanted to work through me, with you, it would through the word wich you hate. and God says, a generation will seek a sign and none will be given. I dont wan to be a "dreamer and false prophet" .

      these dreams weren't prophecies, they were special revelation. i am not a prophet. this was not direct revelation.

      But, I have as much reason as anyone to believe that God could make his name known, and I am down. I agree to take this test or at least research the idea, for the glory of God, and I will not accept the payment for money, I will donate it to the charity or church of my choice. and I will consult a preacher to see if I could be compensated at minimum for my time. I think the answer to that question is no, God might take my life for accepting the bribe . this is all about God. I have nothing to gain, but YOU DO.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:11 am |
    • Austin

      Rollo, I could go in there and write my dreams down, and they could be about anything to get that guys full attention.

      there is no limit to what God can do. but this is not the way God works. and I dont want to put Him to the test, on the other hand I allready know what God is capable of. I fear God and do not know what to do with my gift. I have never ever considered this situation beyond the personal ministry of the Holy Spirit.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:14 am |
    • Rick

      If dreams were "proof" of anything I'd be the biggest playboy on the California Coast.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:27 am |
    • Austin

      Prophetic dreams are proof. Occult dreams are proof

      Isaiah 53
      New International Version (NIV)
      53 Who has believed our message
          and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
      2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
          and like a root out of dry ground.
      He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
          nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
      3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
          a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
      Like one from whom people hide their faces
          he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
      4 Surely he took up our pain
          and bore our suffering,
      yet we considered him punished by God,
          stricken by him, and afflicted.
      5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
          he was crushed for our iniquities;
      the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
          and by his wounds we are healed.
      6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
          each of us has turned to our own way;
      and the Lord has laid on him
          the iniquity of us all.
      7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
          yet he did not open his mouth;
      he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
          and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
          so he did not open his mouth.
      8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
          Yet who of his generation protested?
      For he was cut off from the land of the living;
          for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
      9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
          and with the rich in his death,
      though he had done no violence,
          nor was any deceit in his mouth.
      10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
          and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
      he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
          and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
      11 After he has suffered,
          he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
      by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
          and he will bear their iniquities.
      12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
          and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
      because he poured out his life unto death,
          and was numbered with the transgressors.
      For he bore the sin of many,
          and made intercession

      March 26, 2013 at 12:37 am |
    • clarity

      "Prophetic dreams are proof. Occult dreams are proof"

      You are both pathetic and "O'dolt" and you have no proof.

      March 26, 2013 at 8:50 am |
  6. Michael

    If you do not want to believe, fine, that is your right. After the end of time, we will discover who was right and who was wrong. What I have a problem with is the absolute God-hating that I see in so many of these atheists, of Catholics especially. what have we done to harm you? What have we forced upon you? As Pope John Paul II stated, "The Church proposes, it does not impose". Do you fear us because at some level you realize we speak the truth? Or because we have a peace within ourselves that you can never find? It is open to you, too, if you want to accept it.

    March 25, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Have you just not been paying attention for the past 10 or so years?

      March 25, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
    • Michael

      I've been paying attention for a lot longer than that.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • OOO

      Michael,
      Are you a unicorn hater? Is it possible to hate unicorns when you don't believe in them?

      March 25, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      How about the Nun who dedicated her life to the church only to be ex-communicated for making an impossible decision regarding a woman who was going to die without an abortion...a death sentence for a true believer. The Catholic church is not puppy dogs and roses as you would have people believe. Just one example, I can give plenty more, I was a Catholic and experienced some of it first hand.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Michael

      So do you choose to just ignore the propagation of positions that lead to the spread of AIDS in Africa, not to mention teen pregnancy, other STD's, and even the opposition to abortion even when a woman is raped or in life threatening danger from the pregnancy? Do you choose to ignore the papal order to keep all molestation scandals within the church and not involve the proper authorities under threat of ex-communication?
      You have the pure audacity to ask what harm the Catholic church has done? I hope you don't dare to call yourself humane.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
    • OOO

      By the way Micheal, I am envious of those who are able to "find the peace within themselves". I strive for that all the time. But for me t has to be anchored in a foundation of truth. It could never come to me through any religion.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:51 pm |
    • Unintelligent Designer

      You talk of end times, finding out who was right and who was wrong. Given current lack of evidence for proof of anything supernatural, will there be leniency for those who simply and honestly claim, "I don't know", granted there is a supernatural, and that the Christian God is the true God who did present us with an ultimatum to accept him or not, expecting us to wage the eternal fate of our soul? What if another religion is correct, or what if the test is to reject dogmas and side with logic and reason? What if this "God" is not what he claims and is an insecure, delusional fallen spirit from another dimension, lying to us for the sake of reassuring him that he is almighty (kind of like Kim Jong Un and his father)?

      March 25, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Patients with a lobatomy have a "peace" within themselves too...it doesn't make me want one.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • sam stone

      michael: how can atheists hate a being in which they do not believe? can you?

      March 26, 2013 at 6:43 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      After the end of time, we will discover who was right and who was wrong.

      -You know this how exactly??? Did one of your dead relatives or friends come back to tell you???

      What I have a problem with is the absolute God-hating that I see in so many of these atheists, of Catholics especially. what have we done to harm you? What have we forced upon you?

      -I don't hate god nor do I hate Catholic's per say. I do hate the extreme cover up by the Catholic church of the pedophilia that has been ongoing for decades upon decades. The Catholic church tries to overstep and believe they have the right (when they don't) to tell others what they can and can't do in the personal lives.

      March 26, 2013 at 7:27 am |
    • *

      * TP,

      "per se" (not "per say")

      March 26, 2013 at 11:13 am |
  7. Hodor

    FACT: there would be no evidence that god exists if god does not exist
    FACT: there is no evidence that god exists
    a world in which god does not exist would be similar to this world in the sense that there would be no evidence that god exists.

    1. are there any people with religious beliefs here that can admit at least the possibility that god does not exist here?

    2. doesn't it seem at least somewhat arbitrary to believe this specific religion over any other?

    3. how can anyone know anything about that which is purportedly inherently unknowable?
    i assume one would say "the bible," which was compiled over time by men. if it's god's word, or was written with divine inspiration, how do you know?
    i assume one would say something about the testimony of other religious thinkers from history, theology, my pastor or priest, the like. how do they know?
    i assume one would say it's faith, not knowledge. so, how does one know that faith is, so to speak, correct? did the bible say it? maybe Calvin or Luther? how would they know?

    4. are you not just blindly accepting dogma that's been honed over centuries as truth when, in fact, it's just people's ideas about things they don't understand?

    i will accept responses, preferably decent ones, to any or all of these fairly straightforward questions, if it please. preferably from religious people, or any critiques. i'm pretty curious about how one justifies their faith in spite of these considerations. thanks.

    March 25, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • Vic

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/23/the-money-man-behind-atheisms-activism/comment-page-34/#comment-2237533

      March 25, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • Hodor

      "We are programmed to detect and sense the 'physical' world through our physical bodies!"
      -Um, okay...

      "The same way, we are programmed to detect and sense the 'metaphysical' through our metaphysical spirits! The 'universal impulse' for God and religion (Faith/Belief) comes from the programmed spirit just like the 'universal impulses' for food and s e x come from the programmed body!"
      -If the impulse to believe comes from spirit, what is a spirit? How is "just like" a body? How can a physical thing possess an ability to apprehend things that are not physical or not caused by something physical?

      "Now, when you think about God, keep an open mind to that God Himself (Who Is Metaphysical) is not subject to this 'physical' world and its science (physical laws) that He created all."
      -Okay, mind open. What is meant by "metaphysical?" Outside reality? Non-physical? Both? How does a non-physical being outside reality create all, or anything for that matter?

      "Therefore, science can not prove or disprove God! In scientific terms God is imponderable! However, this entire creation, including life, is huge "EVIDENCE" to a "CREATOR" == "GOD" !!!"
      – So this thing is outside science, immaterial, outside reality altogether, but somehow created all of that and everything else? If "imponderable," how can you or anyone else know anything about this being? Presumably, that's where the metaphysical detection part comes in, right? How does that work? And life itself, among other things you misconstrue as evidence, do not require a creation, or a design.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • Opposing View

      FACT: You have to have "evidence" God doesn't exist before you can actually say he doesn't exist. And you have no such evidence….

      March 26, 2013 at 1:54 am |
    • John

      H, your facts are wrong because the bible is filled with evidence of God existing.

      1. There are lots of atheists that used to believe God, then became ignorant/dumb and forgot God.
      2. No, because the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the only God there is.
      3. The bible is filled with accounts of a lot of people that knew God directly and later died. God saying ahead of time what he'd do, is very clear evidence that he is there. His creation account timing aligns. Prophecies of Jesus dying for sins. I know God is there. Faith is something you must have for an instance such as Jesus showing up and dying for sins, because everyone there at the time, is dead, and only words describing what happened are left, words that match hidden prophecy given to those that don't believe the one dying (the Jews don't believe Jesus)... which is self proving in a hidden manner... like finding gold where someone says it will be, near another person that says it's absolutely not there. The one that knew it, is proof that they knew it, not the other person. Faith is something you have to have first, or you will never figure it out. It is like having faith that eating a meal won't kill you, if you have faith, you can eat the meal, and live, and then know that the meal didn't kill you. Having faith first, allowed you to later know.
      4. I don't actually care what you think about it. If you call knowing God exists, "dogma", jump in a lake for all I care. The bible's accounts are filled with people that admitted knowing God exists. It won't change the fact that God exists if you doubt him. God occasionally lets people know him, the bible is filled with accounts of that happening, and those accounts in the bible are a small fraction of the times he's done it, all through history.

      The only reason to have replied to this, is to answer the doubters and say yes God is there, absolutely there. The bible is the real deal, every account in there where God interacts with someone... it's real. It really happened. The miracles given there, are real. If you want to doubt God, realize, your doubt does not erase him, your doubt is meaningless because God will still exist before, during and after you doubted him, it made no difference, other than it's one more instance of you rejecting God, when you could have gotten to know your creator: God. Stop wasting your time with doubt, and figure it out, find God, and understand him. And if you do anything at all, read the New Testament and believe Jesus died for your sins. That is critical, your belief can save you, without it, you're doomed.

      March 26, 2013 at 7:18 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      John: The problem with using the bible as evidence for god is that it is circular. There is zero evidence outside of that book.

      March 26, 2013 at 7:23 am |
    • John

      TP, outside the bible, about 93 million miles away, is that "blacklight hair on the sun"... the sun became black like sackcloth of hair.

      It's like trying to describe Disneyland to cows...

      March 26, 2013 at 7:34 am |
    • Gus

      HOROD:
      You have asked good questions. Since I am a Christian I can't help you with question 1, as I do not doubt the existence of God. However, I would agree, given your presumptions, one can make the argument you are making. The problem, however, which I often find among those who do not acknowledge there is a God is not so much one of evidence, but one of will. People often don't want there to be a God because to believe, particularly in the Christian God, has consequences for the believer. It makes demands on people to believe Jesus is who he says he is. IF you are coming from a naturalistic worldview, then, of course choosing one religion over another is arbitrary because everything in a naturalistic world is born of an arbitrary reality. One cannot claim the universe simply exists (i.e. no outside, creative initiator) but then claim somehow that the universe has rules. From where or what would those rules arise? Your third question suggests a tautology to which no response is possible – you've "stacked the deck" so to speak. If God is inherently unknowable, well, then He can't be known -you're correct. I suppose what you might really be getting at is whether God can be known. I can only say that in my experience the answer is yes and it is not blind faith. I have asked many questions over many years about my faith, and even now, as someone who has been a Christian for 30 years (since college) I still have questions. I don't accept anything without thinking it through. Blind faith occurs when for no reason whatsoever you just accept what someone tells you. Nothing in the Bible proposes such a faith – quite the contrary, the entire Biblical narrative demands one analyze and come to conclusions. Please forgive the length. Hope you get to read this and hope it helps you some. Blessings.

      March 26, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Religion is not healthy for children nor any living thing

      Opposing truth – No One has ANY "need" nor any "reason" to provide evidence of something that does not exist! It is ALWAYS the burden of those who make extraordinary claims to provide equally extraordinary evidence!
      The alleged existence of god is indeed an extraordinary claim! Why is there absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support that claim?
      This is the question that no theologian has EVER answered nor ever will.

      March 26, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Hodor

      I must agree with Religion is not healthy... Opposing View,

      you and your fellow faithful are the ones that posit the superfluous object, not atheists. you make the positive claim, you supply the evidence.

      you demand a logical impossibility. draw me a square circle and i will give you positive proof of a negative claim.

      March 26, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      OV. Provide evidence that Odin does not exist.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
  8. Robert Brown

    “….A child lay restless in her bed. A man, with a severe and stern look, stealthily entered the bedroom and softly approached her bed. The moment the little girl saw him, a terrified look came over her face, and she began to scream. Her mother rushed into the room and went over to her. The trembling child threw her arms about her mother.

    The man withdrew to the telephone, called someone, who was evidently an accomplice, and in a very soft voice made some sort of an arrangement. Hastily the man reentered the room, tore the child from the mother’s arms, and rushed out to a waiting car. The child was sobbing, and he attempted to stifle her cries. He drove madly down street after street until he finally pulled up before a large, sinister, and foreboding-looking building. All was quiet, the building was partially dark, but there was one room upstairs ablaze with light.

    The child was hurriedly taken inside, up to the lighted room, and put into the hands of the man with whom the conversation had been held over the telephone in the hallway. In turn, the child was handed over to another accomplice-this time a woman-and these two took her into an inner room. The man who had brought her was left outside in the hallway. Inside the room, the man plunged a gleaming, sharp knife into the vitals of that little child, and she lay as if she were dead…”

    March 25, 2013 at 8:47 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      You need to find something to do.

      March 25, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      “….You see, that little girl had awakened in the night with severe abdominal pain. She had been subject to such attacks before, and the doctor had told her parents to watch her very carefully. It was her father who had hurried into the room. When he saw the suffering of his little girl, he went to the telephone, called the family physician, and arranged to meet him at the hospital. He then rushed the little girl down to the hospital and handed her over to the family physician who took her to the operating room and performed emergency surgery.

      Through it all, every move and every act of that father was of tender love, anxious care, and wise decision. I have described to you the dark side of love-but love, nevertheless….

      …love places the eternal security and permanent welfare of the object of love above any transitory or temporary comfort or present pleasure down her upon this earth. Love seeks the best interest of the beloved…”

      References provided upon request.

      Peace.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:03 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      So what is your point....

      March 25, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • Nia

      You have a future in pulp fiction, Robert Brown. Pointless story.

      Peace.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Come what may, and however awful it may seem at the time, your Father in heaven loves you and is always doing the right thing for you. Even if he kills you he is just bringing you home to be with him and Jesus. Right, Robert?

      March 25, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      I think you are right Tom, but the problem is that Robert is taking 2 contradictory positions simultaneously.

      1. We can't know the mind of god or his true intentions.

      2. We CAN know his intentions are in our best interest even if we don't know why.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
    • Ellen

      Robert Brown is a disgusting, slimy jerk, and a bigot too. Just like most other Christian zealots.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:54 pm |
    • EJR17

      Well, obviously right off the bat, there's something wrong...when was the lost time a family doctor did surgery? What year is this story from, 1956?
      This is one big bowl of stupid, which is a phrase I picked up from here.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Nia,

      The point is God is love, not the sappy sweet love portrayed by some, but real genuine true love with your best interest in mind. If you are a believer God will remove sin from your life. If you are a non believer he will convict you of your sins. He uses the method that he knows will work for you. He will bring you to the place where you will make a decision.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:09 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Tom, Tom, the Other One & Blessed are the Cheesemakers,

      You guys are super smart.

      You both are correct, kind of. Although Blessed, God’s intentions as far as each individual seem clear to me. So, if you replace the word “intentions” with the word “actions”, I think your dual statements would be more accurate. See my reply to Nia. If you are a nonbeliever, his intention is to draw you to him. If you are a believer, he intends to remove sin from your life.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:12 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Robert,

      The god you define is not "love". I have more love for my children and even my enemies than your god does for us.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:14 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      EJR17,

      Yes, it is a very old story, probably fiction too. When I read the first part, I wanted to go hunt the guy down and make him pay for his crime. Then, I read the rest of the story.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:15 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      As an extension of your argument, according to what you've said before, nothing happens outside your god's plan correct?

      March 25, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Robert,

      Read premise 1 again. You are talking out your ass.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Blessed are the Cheesemakers,

      We’ll have to just disagree then. If God (the loving father) allows the diseased organ (sin) to stay in the child (us) we will surely die. Even if it hurts us, even if we are afraid and don’t understand, he has to remove it. If he didn’t, he really wouldn’t love us.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,
      True, his will, will be done. He will bring you to the place where you will make a decision.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      So if I die as an atheist, say I die right now, by your logic I would be going to hell according to your god's plan. He intentionally did not provide whatever it would take to convince me of his existence because he didn't want to.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Blessed are the Cheesemakers,

      I read it again and I already agreed that you were correct, kind of. We can not know all the mind of God or all his intentions. All we have are his word and spirit and what we learn from those tells us some of his mind and intentions.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,

      There is no way I can know if what you said is true, or not, because I don’t know if you’ve made your choice yet. I don’t know if God has brought you to the place where a decision is required. From mine own experience, he is very patient and forgiving. He gave me what I needed and all the time I needed. I hope he gives you the same.

      Agreed, if you die without him you will go to hell, whatever that is.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Robert,

      If we can't know the mind of god, we can't know his intentions AT ALL. It makes no difference what his words are, he could be lying, no one knows. At the point you claim to know god is love and he wants what is best for us, you are at that point claiming to know the mind of god, violating the 1st premise. Stop...it is dishonest.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Robert

      Jeez, even with a straightforward question using your own logic, you still can't answer straight. You need to go off on a cop-out.
      If I were to die, right now as an atheist, then it was your god's will I go to hell right? This is your own logic in work here.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • Nia

      Since you gave your explanation, Robert, I see the presence of God even less, and what I see the most is a family doing what they should; taking care of their child.
      This has got to be one of the worst allegory stories for God I've ever seen, with all due respect, Robert.
      I know you feel strongly about God; I've read your posts. But this proselytizing story, however, isn't cutting it; pun intended.

      March 25, 2013 at 11:40 pm |
    • Rick

      Robert Brown
      Hell will be far away from meddling Christians, right? Please tell me that there will come a time when I'll be free of your sanctimoniousness.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Blessed are the Cheesemakers,

      I don’t understand your line of thought here. God has given us his word and spirit. God doesn’t lie and I am not being dishonest. If I told you something that I knew was not true that would be lying. I believe what I am telling you. You may disagree or just not like it, but it is in no way dishonest.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hawaiiguest,

      It is not a cop-out. I can’t know your heart. If you die in your sin then it is my understanding that you will go to hell. It is not his will that any perish. He doesn’t want to send you to hell, but he would not be just and trustworthy if he told you what he was going to do and didn’t do it. Stop blaming God and start seeking him, he wants you to come to him.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Nia,

      What conveys a message effectively varies from person to person. It is a shocking and disturbing story. I didn’t like it either. It made me angry. Lots of people have a problem with the judgment and correction of God. When I read the whole thing, I thought it may help someone who thinks God is just too mean to be a God of love. Sorry if you disagree.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Rick,
      I don’t see it as meddling, just sharing the good news. I don’t view myself as superior to you, if my ideas and thoughts come across that way I apologize, but there may come a time when you are free of more than little ole me.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      @ Robert Brown..."I don’t understand your line of thought here. God has given us his word and spirit. God doesn’t lie and I am not being dishonest."

      Robert,

      Couple of points here, you claim god has given us his word and spirit, these are 2 assertions that you have no demonstrable evidence for. You can't use the Bible because the Bible IS THE CLAIM, not the evidence for the claim. There is no demonstrable evidence for the spirit of ANY god, much less the one you are asserting. Words are just that, words, unless you can demonstrate the veracity of the words they are meaningless.

      You can't demonstrate your god's existence so how can you claim he doesn't lie. You either CAN know the mind of god, or you can know SOME parts of the mind of god, if either of these claims are asserted it is dishonest to respond to questions with "we can't know the mind of god" (which is what the Bible says). HYPOTHETICALLY, if I was to accept that there IS a god BUT we can't know the mind of god, we therefore can't know if he lies or not. You love to put claims together as if the CLAIMS are the PROOF, they aren't and the dishonesty (whither you are conscious of it or not) is arguing that they ARE the proof.

      March 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Blessed are the Cheesemakers,

      Ok, you win. I agree and understand that from your perspective they are claims or assertions. I agree that I can’t provide you with demonstrable evidence. In my opinion, the evidence or proof is provided by God, (oops, another claim). I do hope he provides you with what you need to believe.

      Even if you and I were best of buds and I shared my experience with God, with you, you having any normal amount of skepticism would have to take what I told you with a grain of salt. The hope is by sharing that you may at the very least seek him for yourself, not saying you haven’t already, but he didn’t say seek with your whole heart for a day, or a year, or ten years, he just said seek and you will find, ( I know, another one). Peace.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Robert,

      I appreciate your response, I truly do. The reason I appreciate it is you seem to be grasping the concept of claims and evidence for claims. I was a believer for a long time. When I realized I have no personal eveidence for the beliefs I had AND my claims were no better or worse than other contradictory religious claims, I knew the pathway to determining what is actually true needs to start by discarding the useless baggage (believing claims without proper foundation).

      I know you feel like you have personal revelation, which is something I cannot directly dispute.... because it is personal. But remember, the followers of Islam, Mormonism, Hinduism ect, feel the same way. There are 3 possibilities.

      1. They are all correct. Since they contradict each other we can reject this one out of hand.

      2. One is correct. But which one? Personal revelation cannot be tested. A god would know this so if this option is true the real god is pulling the ultimate prank and many people are suffering and dying because of his prank. A just god would give indisputable evidence. And no, that would not take away our free will to accept him.

      3. They are all mistaken.

      I will promise you this, I will change my mind with better information, after all I have already done it once. But the onus is on god to reveal himself, not for me to do mental gymnastics in an effert to accept claims without proper foundation.

      March 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm |
  9. Reality

    Some billboards for specific locations:

    For Salt Lake City:

    There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    For Mecca:

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • لم يكن هناك أي فشل غابرييل الإسلام كدين. فشل المسيحية جزئيا

    For Rome:

    There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • non erat Pascha ie Christianismus totaliter deficit sicut a religionis.

    For Jerusalem:

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • • ווי ווייַט ווי איינער ווייסט אָדער קענען זאָגן, עס איז קיין אברהם הייסט די יסודות פון יידישקייַט, קריסטנטום און איסלאם זענען ניט-עגזיסטאַנט.

    • ווי ווייַט ווי איינער ווייסט אָדער קענען זאָגן, עס איז ניט משה הייסט די פּילערז פון יידישקייַט, קריסטנטום און איסלאם האָבן קיין שטאַרקייַט פון ציל.

    Details concerning these conclusions have been provided previously but here is an example of one:

    origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

    New Torah For Modern Minds

    “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

    The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

    The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

    If you disagree with these findings, please provide evidence to support your conclusions.

    March 25, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • Kev

      You're the who is claiming with absolute certainty. So go ahead and provide the absolute proof. Claiming from a few selective sources doesn't cut it.

      March 25, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Kev

      Reality is not a good representative of anything. Don't concern yourself with responding to him. His cut and paste trolling is boring, long, and mainly full of assertions.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:00 pm |
    • Kev

      @ Hawaii guest, you got a point. For me if one is of the opinion, or belief, or if someone concludes that based on the evidence, or the lack thereof, that there is no god then o.k. I certainly can't prove otherwise. It does bug me at times when one says it is the absolute truth end of discussion.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • Ellen

      Robert Brown is a disgusting, slimy jerk, and a bigot too. Just like most other Christian zealots.

      March 25, 2013 at 9:55 pm |
    • Reality

      Once again, if you disagree with these findings, please provide evidence to support your own conclusions using reputable sources.

      And then there is this:

      o Reiteration is great for the learning process. As is reading and rational thinking followed by conclusions based on all of it.

      March 25, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • Nia

      That's why people read the Bible over and over, Reality. Duh.

      March 26, 2013 at 12:02 am |
    • Reality

      First the bible is not a reputable historical source and by reading outside this source of mostly myths, one fast comes to the following conclusions:

      The Apostles' Creed 2013 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (References used are available upon request.)

      March 26, 2013 at 7:54 am |
  10. gerald bostock

    sam stone
    Blah, blah, fvcking blah.....keep on talking, punk
    sam stone
    So, Salero, got that bible jammed way up your rectum?

    March 25, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • gerald bostock

      jebus is the flatly fictional figurehead of an ancient middle-eastern slave cult.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
  11. gerald bostock

    Don't let me change my heart
    Keep me set apart
    From all the plans they do pursue
    And I, I don't mind the pain
    Don't mind the driving rain
    I know I will sustain
    'Cause I believe in you.

    You may call me Terry, you may call me Jimmy
    You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy
    You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray
    You may call me anything but no matter what you say.

    You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
    You're gonna have to serve somebody,
    Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
    But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

    March 25, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "but you doesn't hasta call me Johnson!!!!"

      March 25, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
  12. Salero21

    PS 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

    PS 53:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good.

    Enough said!

    March 25, 2013 at 7:12 pm |

    • Sorry, was that in response to something? I've been watching a Brazilian child-porn-snuff film and just didn't want to miss the climax.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Repeating cult logic is not convincing or even interesting.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
    • ME II

      "...anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matthew 5:22)

      March 26, 2013 at 10:57 am |
  13. Hodor

    I once had an interesting experience at a funeral. During the service I occasionally thought to myself that I was most certainly the only irreligious person in this church. Oh well, I thought, such is life. Then all the sudden I felt a light tapping on my shoulder. Tap tap tap. At first, I was taken aback. I couldn't explain what was happening. I would turn and look and I would see nothing and no one. But the tapping on my shoulder continued.

    Eventually, I looked up toward the heavens, and it all became clear. I let the feeling wash over me. The ceiling of the church was leaking, and I sat directly below the leak. It was the dripping of water that kept tapping my shoulder. I thought to myself, wow, what are the chances that the one non-believer at this Christian funeral service would be seated in this exact spot, so as to be touched like this? Is this really happening to me? And at that moment my fears were meliorated, all my doubts cast aside, and a great wave of comfort pervaded me entire being. At that moment, I felt complete. In that moment, I knew now what I had only assumed before, what I had only tried to believe before. At that moment, I KNEW for a FACT the TRUTH of the matter. I KNEW what this experience was all about. It was proven beyond my wildest imagination. In that moment I knew for a fact, and will always know with certainty, that coincidence is real.

    True story.

    March 25, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Doris

      And was there a foul odor?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      And the one true fact was:

      The roof was leaking!

      How do you know you were the only unbeliever in the church. Maybe all the believers knew about the leak so sat elsewhere, increasing the chances a nonbeliever would sit there.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Was their someone pis'sing on the roof?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
    • Hodor

      morning after vodka breath, perhaps. read carefully...

      March 25, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • Hodor

      point missed.

      the last sentence should say it all. someone will get it

      March 25, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
    • Salero21

      Co-incidence like fate, luck et.al is also God's Creation, it does have a purpose. But because atheists are like rabid wolves and choose to have fun like the monkeys in the barrel they will miss it.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @hodor.............Ok You're a poor story teller. What's the point?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • The Non Believer

      Are you saying god exists because the roof leaked on you?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
    • The Non Believer

      Poe's law, sorry

      March 25, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      "It was proven beyond my wildest imagination." – And it's clear, you have an absolutely wild imagination.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Salero21

      by HAA

      ..."Maybe all the believers knew about the leak so sat elsewhere, increasing the chances a nonbeliever would sit there."

      😀 😀 That's how it is and will be at the End of ALL things Created. Chance is also God's Creation and Plan and it does have a purpose, but atheists will always misse it! 😉

      March 25, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "the last sentence should say it all. someone will get it"

      What, do you mean "true story". That's what all the believers claim. What makes you special?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • EJR17

      Yep, coincidence is real.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • The Non Believer

      "In that moment I knew for a fact, and will always know with certainty, that coincidence is real." This is the point of the story.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • Swords

      Was it an accident? Or fate?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "I saw my neighbour at Starbucks this morning."

      Yes, coincidence is very real.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
    • Answer

      The reason why he didn't see all the other approximate 7 billion other people in the world was because he was actively avoiding them all.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
    • Hodor

      coincidence (as opposed to some divine message) is real, yes, that's the point. it was a bit prosaic, i'll admit. next time i will shelf the style and stick to substance. christ...

      March 25, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
  14. Salero21

    In their contempt toward religion atheist act, behave and conduct themselves worst than animals. Because animals don't have religion, though they do have and follow rituals and routines. However rituals and routines are not religion, just like Idolatry is not religion. That's one characteristic among many that separates mankind from all other genres and species.

    See, animals don't have religion; they follow instincts, rituals and routines. Having, following or practicing a religion whether in err or not is strictly a HUMAN endeavor. Now, granted that religions in the world do have or include within their practices ceremonies, protocols, rites and rituals. That fact alone however doesn't make them similar to those of the apes. The rites and rituals of man made religion or of the world's religions are done following a set of Morals and rationales that the apes don't have.

    Now, Christianity and specifically true Christianity is not just a religion. True Christianity proposes a relationship with God thru Jesus Christ ONLY. That is way above and beyond man made and earthly religions. However the atheists are unable to respond to the appeal of Christendom because the atheist chooses to behave like a pack of rabid wolves or a troop of baboons. They rather have fun like the proverbial monkeys in the barrel.

    March 25, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Christianity proposes an imaginary relationship with an imaginary God. That's just not very interesting.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Salero21

      Tom thumb,

      You just proved me right in less than a minute, amazing!

      March 25, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • End Religion

      ...except humans are animals.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • Hodor

      a, how can they conduct themselves "worst" than animals? I believe you mean to say "worse," as that denotes comparison.

      b, humans are animals, so that makes no sense whatsoever.

      if I'm finding this many problems within your first sentence, I can't imagine the issues we'd have to contend with if everyone reads the whole of your ridiculous post

      March 25, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • Salero21

      OMG, OMG! Hodor is another secret agent of the Legal Branch of atheism, THE GRAMMAR GESTAPO OF THE INTERNET.

      I did not say that human are animals you fool. Learn to read! It was End Religion who said that. But the Fact is that many humans behave WORSE than animals.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      What animal would you be if you were atheist, Salero21?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • sam stone

      "worst than animals", pen-day-ho?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
    • Salero21

      Tom thumb,

      Tell me first; to which animal would Jesus compare you to?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • sam stone

      all you are is a mouth little punk, salero.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
    • Salero21

      Sam Stoned,

      You're WORST than many! 😀

      March 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Jesus, an animal himself, might have had an opinion on that. But then, as animals go, Jesus is as dead as any 2000 year-old roadkill. We'll never know.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • sam stone

      So, Salero, got that bible jammed way up your rectum?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • sam stone

      Blah, blah, fvcking blah.....keep on talking, punk

      March 25, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
    • Salero21

      Sam Stoned,

      Your's orientations are showing! That's why an atheist is among the WORST of men! They're WORSE than baboons and like rabid wolves.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • .

      Jesus would compare Salero to a troll under the bridge, and he'd be right. Nothing worse than a Christian troll. Atheist trolls are appalled by the monstrosity that is Salero21. Way to troll.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:37 pm |
    • gerald bostock

      imaginary god

      March 25, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      I see Salero's self-loathing has gotten to much for him again. He must now debase himself on the internet with self-righteous stupidity to validate his own existence. What a sad life he must live.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • Answer

      Religious people get creepier over the internet per the ratio of rejection they have experienced through their own posts.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Salerno, it's semi-literate raving fukktards like you who make nice, regular church-going folk cringe. Please keep doing what you are doing, which is speeding the demise of your silly supersti-tions.

      March 25, 2013 at 8:02 pm |
  15. The monkey man is still in the news???
    March 25, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • The monkey man is still in the news???

      oopsies there is an extra k in the money 😉

      March 25, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • Translator

      The masses follow their charismatic leader...atheists need to be led...except they don't realize , as blind as they are,their leader is blind as well.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • .

      Who says oopsies?? How old ARE you?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • Pete

      Translator
      If this guy is such a great atheist leader why is it that I've never heard of him until yesterday?

      March 25, 2013 at 8:02 pm |
  16. The Non Believer

    See http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm#top. There's more than 300 "proofs."

    March 25, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Very good site

      Very good site

      March 25, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
  17. Fundies Gone Wild!

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-04VDrCbM&w=640&h=390]

    March 25, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
  18. Reality

    Some recommended billboards for specific locations:

    For Salt Lake City:

    There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    For Mecca:

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • لم يكن هناك أي فشل غابرييل الإسلام كدين. فشل المسيحية جزئيا

    For Rome:

    There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • non erat Pascha ie Christianismus totaliter deficit sicut a religionis.

    For Jerusalem:

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • • ווי ווייַט ווי איינער ווייסט אָדער קענען זאָגן, עס איז קיין אברהם הייסט די יסודות פון יידישקייַט, קריסטנטום און איסלאם זענען ניט-עגזיסטאַנט.

    • ווי ווייַט ווי איינער ווייסט אָדער קענען זאָגן, עס איז ניט משה הייסט די פּילערז פון יידישקייַט, קריסטנטום און איסלאם האָבן קיין שטאַרקייַט פון ציל.

    March 25, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • Kev

      So, how is it that you can conclude that Abraham and Moses probably did not exist, and yet conclude that, Easter, Gabriel, and Moroni did not exist? For that matter, how can you conclude with absolute certainty that any of the above either flat out did not exist, or even probably not existed. You can make your own opinion, or conclusions based on evidence or what you choose as evidence, or what your spin of the evidence is, but how do you know with absolute certainty?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
  19. Salero21

    He is a fool period! Atheists are rabid wolves, Jesus said it. Jesus called Herod a Fox. Herod was an idolater, atheists are like idolaters. Jesus called idolaters/unbelievers (atheists) dogs, swine, foxes, goats and wolves. Jesus called them that becuase of their acts, conduct and behavior.

    March 25, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • End Religion

      you missed rats there Hitler, Junior.

      March 25, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • Salero21

      Sin is like a miry mud, sinners who are complacent and enjoy living in their Sins are like the swine who enjoys the miry mud. That's why Jesus called them swine!

      March 25, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • Salero21

      I quote strictly what Jesus said! I don't find rats in the text, therefore I wont quote such. But if you're an unbeliever/idolater you're not much better than Hitler. Using Hitler as a crutch to pretende to portray yourself as better than him is not going to cut it before men, much less before God.

      March 25, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • The Non Believer

      Jesus said atheiests are rabid wolves, therefore god exists.

      March 25, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • Salero21

      Jesus did not say they are rabid or wolves you ignorant! He compared them to wolves, just like He compared other to swine, dogs, goats and foxes. What part of that you can't understand?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • Salero21

      Jesus CALLED them that not because they are of course, but because their atti-tude, conduct, behavior, lifestyles, speech, even their table manners and the way they treat others. It is a matter of record that animals of all species do demonstrate better manners, affections and even compasion toward other animals even those of different species.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • End Religion

      Jesus = Hitler

      March 25, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • The Non Believer

      "Atheists are rabid wolves, Jesus said it." I'm quoting you.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • ..and for the good news;there is no Satan either !

      Sooooo-you don't like atheists eh ?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Oh I can so feel the christian love here...believe as I do or I guarantee you'll suffer forever. Christians can be so ludicrous at times.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Pete

      Herod believed in his gods and you believe in yours. We believe in none, so who's actually closer to Herod after all?

      March 25, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • Unintelligent Designer

      So what's your point?

      March 25, 2013 at 10:00 pm |
  20. Chad

    how is it possible for all of you atheists to be so anti-theism, if you claim God doesnt exist? Why do you oppose God if you claim He doesnt exist?

    March 25, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Let the the semantics and weasel-wording begin!

      March 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Chad

      When you can actually be honest, then it might be worth correcting the mistakes in your post.

      March 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • clarity

      Are you sure that's what people are claiming, Chad?

      March 25, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • End Religion

      Chad never gets tired of dancing!

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dd6-KV0TR8&w=640&h=390]

      March 25, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Doris

      LOL!

      March 25, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
    • EJR17

      The Gong Show! Gene, Gene, the Dancing Machine! Remember the Unknown Comic? (Still remember his shoes!)
      Thanks for the laugh!

      March 25, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      I don't oppose god. I oppose what people say about god.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • Goodfella

      Listen Chad, it seems Salero21 likes the cut of your jib and would like to hook up with you and discuss jesus and your opinion on gay coitus, if you know what he means, go for it, Rachel.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • Answer

      Why does Rachel now oppose Chad?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:12 pm |

    • This is the end of taking Chad seriously.

      Let's have a song:

      This is the end
      Beautiful friend
      This is the end
      My only friend, the end
      Of our elaborate plans, the end
      Of everything that stands, the end
      No safety or surprise, the end
      I'll never look into your eyes...again
      Can you picture what will be
      So limitless and free
      Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
      In a...desperate land
      Lost in a Roman...wilderness of pain
      And all the children are insane
      All the children are insane
      Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
      There's danger on the edge of town
      Ride the King's highway, baby
      Weird scenes inside the gold mine
      Ride the highway west, baby
      Ride the snake, ride the snake
      To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
      The snake is long, seven miles
      Ride the snake...he's old, and his skin is cold
      The west is the best
      The west is the best
      Get here, and we'll do the rest
      The blue bus is callin' us
      The blue bus is callin' us
      Driver, where you taken' us
      The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
      He took a face from the ancient gallery
      And he walked on down the hall
      He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
      Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
      He walked on down the hall, and
      And he came to a door...and he looked inside
      Father, yes son, I want to kill you
      Mother...I want to...WAAAAAA
      C'mon baby,--- No "take a chance with us"
      C'mon baby, take a chance with us
      C'mon baby, take a chance with us
      And meet me at the back of the blue bus
      Doin' a blue rock
      On a blue bus
      Doin' a blue rock
      C'mon, yeah
      Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
      This is the end
      Beautiful friend
      This is the end
      My only friend, the end
      It hurts to set you free
      But you'll never follow me
      The end of laughter and soft lies
      The end of nights we tried to die
      This is the end

      March 25, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • Answer

      I wonder if even Rachel cringes in despair when Chad posts...

      March 25, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • Dating Myself

      All About Eve
      All About Chad
      So many personalities, no wonder his own family ridiculed at least one of those personas, whether Chad, Rachel and the other bit-chy side. Chad seeks relevance on this blog, we all love you Chad even if you can not stop lying.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • Chad

      Pretty straightforward question, why are you so anti-God, if you claim that God doesnt exist?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • &32;

      God must know, Chad. Doesn't God have answers for you?

      March 25, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • Answer

      Get Rachel to help you out with that Chad. I bet she is smarter than you.

      Could you do that? Manipulate your own persona and talk to yourself...

      March 25, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I think I answered a similar question yesterday, Chad. The God of Israel is not rejected because there is no reason to take it up for consideration in the first place. Similarly, God is not opposed, except perhaps as an ill-formed figment of your fevered imagination, because it is just not there to oppose.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad
      Simply, Chad, because we can, you deluded fvcktard. Why are you such a deluded jesus freak, please post 9000 Christian apologetics arguments to prove your point, I know you can. Ready go start now.....

      March 25, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • Answer

      Ask yourself.. "what would Rachel say?"

      WWRS <<– Chad, yours to keep.

      March 25, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
    • Rachel

      @Chad, Great question! 'Why do you oppose God if you claim He doesnt exist?

      He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him.
      –George Orwell

      March 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Most people do dislike lies. God is one.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      Why do theists claim moral superiority over the rest of us, and then lie in the very next breath?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Rachel

      "“He was an embittered atheist (the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him), and took a sort of pleasure in thinking that human affairs would never improve.” '

      This is from a memoir on the theme of poverty – "Down and Out in Paris and London" (1933). Orwell goes on in the paragraph to describe the pavement artist "Bozo" as an 'exceptional man'.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • Rachel

      @Tank
      Theists don't claim moral superiority over anybody. They have the assurance of forgiveness from almighty God, they strive to live a godly life based on this assurance.

      @Tom
      God is truth and those who seek him in truth will find him, the scriptures are clear on this.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Chad

      Once again, if you were to actually show yourself to be honest, your question might merit actual answers. Your dishonesty has put you in the position where you're not taken seriously at all.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Rachel

      Confirmation bias is a sad, flimsy basis for any kind of belief.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
    • Rachel

      This is Chad's thread, over to Chad.
      🙂

      March 25, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      @ Rachel So I should just ignore all the "You'll burn in hell!" and "Atheists don't have morals" comments under this very article because.............you said so?

      Hmmm.

      No.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      "(The) scriptures are clear on this." Why do you believe them?

      I'm curious, Rachel. Do you have a personal and intimate relationship with God? Is there a dialog? Does it it talk to you? Does it tell you that it knows you and loves you personally? Does it tell you that you are its special creation billions of years in the making? Does it promise you an eternity of perfect life with it?

      March 25, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • Bob

      Chad(Rachel), how are those thigh workouts coming along? Still no gap? Try losing some weight too. Getting away from that keyboard of yours once a month might help.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Answer

      Glad to see that Chad finally gave into Rachel.

      How did that feel Chad to let Rachel out and talk like you do?

      All these problems of yours and you created a female persona that is also a theistic evolutionist like yourself. You have the capability to make an atheist 'Rachel' and yet you didn't. The reason for your choice was simple. You can't think like an atheist because of your own bottleneck.

      A real atheist has to be the quandary of your questions. That is the whole truth of your whole life. If you could only really talk to an atheist, which you never can, because you're a dipwad theist.

      March 25, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • Bill Daecon-BS

      Hi Chad. how old are you, buddy? Would you like to confess what you have been doing to yourself and your girlfriend, if you have one? Listen, jesus is real, he wants you to be one with him and I can show you the way, RSVP

      March 25, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
    • Pete

      We don't oppose God; we oppose people who use God as an excuse to impose their outdated morality and bigotry on the rest of us. If anything I actually feel sorry for the historical Jesus. Poor, devout rabbi would probably die of shame if he had ever found out what a blasphemy people have made of him.

      March 25, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • Ra-Chad

      Okay, NOW you've done it, you filthy atheists! You've angered Chad and Rachel for the last time! Behold! We have discovered the secret lab of Dr. Seth Brundle, and fixed his teleportation pods (after cleaning up some liquified legs and bits and pieces) and we have gone through together. Before, we were just Chad and Rachel, annoying and dimwitted religitards, but now, NOW!!! We are Ra-Chad!!!!!!!! Tremble at our conjoined intellect!!!! Weep as we crush you under our now-doubled ability to run away when presented with logic!!!! Bow down, worms!!!!!! Ra-Chad approaches!!!!!!!

      March 25, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.