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Who is on God's side of the marriage debate?
March 25th, 2013
11:00 PM ET

Who is on God's side of the marriage debate?

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – As the Supreme Court considers two major same-sex marriage cases that could change marriage in the United States, religious leaders on both sides of the debate believe they are on God's side of the contentious issue.

In the months leading up to this week's Supreme Court hearings, religious leaders from across the country have held prayer vigils and rallies for their respective causes.

At each event, even those with diametrically opposed views, leaders cite biblical principles as the foundation for their beliefs.

"I believe I am on God's side," Dr. Richard Land, president of The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission and and opponent of same-sex marriage, told CNN. "I have no question in what God says marriage is."

"I do think we are on God's side because my idea of God is someone that is loving," said the Rev. Gary Hall, dean of the Washington National Cathedral and a proponent of same-sex marriage. "My understanding is that kind of God that loves everyone and wants everyone to live a joyful life."

This week, the Supreme Court will hear two cases. One will examine the constitutionality of Proposition 8, a law that prohibited same-sex marriage in California, and the other will test the Defense of Marriage Act, the 1996 legislation that forbids the recognition of same-sex marriages nationwide and bars married gay and lesbian couples from receiving federal benefits.

Marriage and the Supreme Court: Five things to watch

Land and Hall each have actively worked on his side of this debate.

Hall, after taking the reins at the National Cathedral in 2012, decided to marry same-sex couples in the historic church. Land, who has counseled Republican presidents and members of Congress, has written and spoken at length about why same-sex marriage goes against biblical principles.

And although they both believe in the Bible, their opinions on how the text views same-sex marriage are shaped by their views on how literally to read the holy book.

"I come from a tradition that looks at the big story," said Hall, an Episcopalian. "The image of Jesus in the Bible is of someone who really makes everyone welcome, and it is from that perspective that I operate."

Hall acknowledges, however, that the Bible isn't the only guide for this belief.

"Our argument is not entirely scriptural-based," Hall said, after acknowledging passages of the holy book that define marriage as being between a man and a woman. "There is no place in the Bible that I can point to that says Jesus performed a same-sex marriage or anything like that."

In addition to scripture, Hall said, "tradition and reason" anchor his belief that same-sex couples should be allowed to wed. There are about 2 million Episcopalians in the United States.

CNN Belief: My Take: Will gay rights infringe on religious liberty?

Land, on the other hand, cites the chapters and verses that guide his views on same-sex marriage.

"The people who take a more conservative view of the Bible and believe that they are under the authority of scripture almost universally oppose same-sex marriage," Land said about people who agree with him.

For Land, this view is not only consistent but  also roots his belief in "traditional values" and his disgust with "moral relativism."

Land, a Southern Baptist, continued: "The people who are religious and support same-sex marriage tend to take a Dalmatian view of scripture. They believe the Bible is divine in spots, and they think they can spot the spots."

If the Supreme Court decides in favor of same-sex marriage, Land said, the decision would be on par with the court's 1973 decision on Roe v. Wade, which affirmed a woman's right to an abortion.

"I think it will evoke a similar reaction," Land said.

Southern Baptists count 16 million members in the United States.

CNN Poll: 'Rob Portman effect' fuels support for same-sex marriage

This split over the biblical reasoning behind each side of the marriage debate extends beyond just Land and Hall, however. Churches around the country have been divided on the issue, with some choosing to allow same-sex marriage and others to forbid it.

The Rev. Jacqui Lewis, the senior minister at Middle Collegiate Church in New York who has worked with the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation on same-sex marriage, comes down in favor of same-sex marriage.

She uses the Bible - and civil rights - in her reasoning.

"I don't think that people who are supporting gay marriage need to distance themselves from the Bible in needing to find support," Lewis said. When asked about how the Bible anchors her beliefs, she cited Mark 12:31: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

On the other side of the argument is Robert Gagnon, a biblical scholar at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary who has worked with the Family Research Council on the issue.

"Only a woman is a true sexual compliment to a man and vice versa," said Gagnon, citing Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:24, along with the Gospels of Mark and Matthew, as the reasoning behind his view on same-sex marriage.

"That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh," reads Genesis 2:24.

As for how he feels about people such as Hall who use the Bible to defend their position in support of same-sex marriage: "You are rejecting Jesus himself. ... Just go ahead and make up your own religion."

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Gay marriage • Politics

soundoff (2,640 Responses)
  1. him

    God's Message?
    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPplpSUc3-Q&w=640&h=360]

    March 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • The Non Believer

      No

      March 26, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • History Channel's "The Bible" Parts 3 & 4 - In Under 11 Minutes!

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTRn28iZD_g&w=640&h=360]

      March 26, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • sftommy

      God is in the heart. He convinced me of His righteousness long before men made tried to convince me of prejudices borne of His word. God isn't trying to deny marriage, men are. Enough said.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • Science

      Creationists ..................................................was the bible around back then ?

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      No god(s) needed or required .

      March 26, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
  2. ARLENE

    GOD AS WE KNOW MADE ADAM & EVE, SO WHY WOULD A MAN WANT A MAN AND A WOMAN WANT A WOMAN? COULD NEVER UNDERSTAND THAT. WELL EACH TO THEIR OWN, NO OFFENSE BUT I BELIEVE IN THE MAN UPSTAIRS AND MARRIAGE SHOULD BE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN. FAMILIES ARE TORN APART AS IT IS IN THIS WORLD WHY ADD MORE TURMOIL IN THERE LIFE.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Mark Stevenson

      And why did God have his followers (Priests) have relationships with children?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Billy

      Hey Arlene – turn your fvcking caps off. Thank you.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Families are a heck of a lot more likely to be torn apart if you coerce people into marrying folks they aren't attracted to just to meet the church's requirements of what a marriage should be.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Athy

      Arlene, turn off your damn caps lock. Also, it's their, not there. How old are you, about 12?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Honey Hush

      Arlene
      Bad enough that you have nothing rational to say and yet you have to SHOUT it out, pathetic.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • Thoth

      "the man upstairs"?? Welp, based on modern stuff like IDK, telescopes, satelites, etc.... I'm thinking that's an awfully long invisible staircase 8-}

      Everything you wrote is opinion based on human conjecture originating from one of the most ignorant regions on the planet at the time.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Skalamoosh

      @Mark Stevenson

      God didn't have his followers (priests) commit sin. They did that on their own. I'm assuming you are smart enough to understand the difference between what is right and wrong and what God has laid out for us and what we actually do. The problem with some churches (Catholic especially) is that they make it up as they go along- it's run by men and therefore religion can change as you see fit. It's not up to God at this point- it's up to what we feel like. Check out Revelation 22:19

      Any organization with people in it is imperfect. Things will happen. It doesn't mean that God told the people to do it. If you don't believe the Bible and what God has sent us, it's pointless to argue with you- it's between you and God. He will do the judging, not me. I am a sinner just as much as the rest, but I put my faith in Him though you ridicule it.

      It's really sad thinking we are just here to work and then die with nothing after that. If that be what you belive the purpose of life then I can understand why you are so grouchy.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • sam stone

      It is about EQUAL RIGHTS, Arlene

      March 26, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • sam stone

      Also, Arlene, you sure have a problem equating knowledge with opinion

      March 26, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Neil Z

      ARLENE, maybe God thinks that using his name to spread hatred, division, war and intolerance is not what He wants. It's what you're part of though so be careful of preaching things that hurt others.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • sftommy

      "...AS WE KNOW..." my faith in God doesn't find this compelling.
      I'll ask Him about it in my prayers tonight and let you know what He really meant.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • Neil Z

      ...and sorry you're being picked on here and appreciate your concern for families being torn apart. The breakup of the family should be a concern for all but I don't see the divisiveness of gay marriage as helping society.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
  3. Atheistically Yours

    God? WHAT "god"?

    March 26, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
  4. The Non Believer

    Ho.mo sapiens have been around for 100.000 years. It's amazing the species survived without marriage conventions.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
  5. mark houck

    Hey idiot Athy.....God does exist.
    If we came from apes like you morons think....you would see a bunch of creatures
    that have not evolved yet. Half ape and half man, they do not exist!
    For you who say you are christians....the bible says CLEARLY, a man shall not lay with a man as he does a woman.
    If you do not believe the whole bible, then you are a phoney and not a true christian.
    Do not believe idiots like Athy, he will bow down before GOD, just like you and I.
    Like everyone....he will have no choice.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • sam stone

      Thanks for the learned input Marky Mark.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Atheistically Yours

      If your "bible" is your answer, then it (and YOUR existence on this planet!) mus have been a STUPID QUESTION!

      March 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • BRC

      @mark,
      But "God" said I have free will. What if I choose not to bow?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • Hmm

      So you must follow the old-testament, too, 100%? If we catch you wearing two kinds of fabrics we'll know just the kind of person you are.

      Well besides someone who clearly doesn't understand science, or that the Vatican accepted the theory of evolution a while ago.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Baalzabarber

      I'm not a Christian, and YOU are the missing link, ya big slope head.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Paul

      Half-ape, and Half-man, thanks for admitting you don't understand evolution.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      mark
      h0m0 sapiens means wise apes, which is what we are, we are part of the natural animal kingdom, and we are one of the great apes.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • fred

      If we ignore the half monkey nonsense it seems since a million years ago not much has changed in man. Homo antecessor is shown to look like Homo rhodesiensis and us. Why no change in a million years? Evidence points towards a sudden change. This is why evolution is interesting but cannot be used to justify a world view that no God needed.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
  6. Fundies Gone Wild! They are panicking!

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-04VDrCbM&w=640&h=360]
    . . . . . .

    March 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
  7. Jordan Graham

    The odd issue with this question is thinking that people are using religion to make social political decision.
    There shouldn't be a "god's side" because separation of church and state was MADE so that religion couldn't depict social issues.
    If you bring up marriage being a harmonious christian value I will own the crap out of you.
    (challenge accepted?)

    March 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Mike

      Put your left hand on the bible and raise your right hand. repeat after me . Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

      God has always been a part of this nations creation.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Paul

      You don't have to swear on the bible.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Swearing on the bible is not required. Nor is swearing an oath to god. Just because it is a part of the US does not mean it has any exclusivity.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • Jordan Graham

      John Quincy Adams was sworn in on a copy of a book of laws
      Lyndon Johnson was sworn in on a Catholic missal
      Theodore Roosevelt wasn't sworn in on anything
      Franklin Pierce was affirmed in on a copy of a book of laws

      March 26, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Jordan Graham

      Mike you watch too much TV.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
  8. Eric EKstrom

    When invoking "God" as the author of how you should behave, there are several issues: One, is that "God" represents an ideal way of life for most of us when we think of who/what "God" is. However, all religious texts are inundated with personal opinion and personalized social view by meat eaters, God zealots and by people who want to control other people.

    In this light one can see that God, who does not, I repeat, does not control people proof of which is in Genesis when Adam and Eve for their mental spiritual illness(es) was not controlled but rather tossed out of the Garden of Eden. Two, each religion has a different point of view when it comes to marriage, and each is quite nasty when people differ in their interpretation; i.e., wars have been committed in the name of "God" when in fact no one has a handle on God, except for great minds and all great minds do not adhere to the dogma of religious belief without consideration of the other person. What we are dealing with is pure and simple ignorance, bullying and a fabrication of what and who God is by men of extremely backward thinking about LIFE.
    This planet is a MESS and people must stop trying to force others to see it 'their way' since 'their way' is the way of those expelled from God's Garden of Eden. Enough said, for now.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
  9. Randy

    What happened to seperation of church and state. If the churches want to weigh in, how about they pay their taxes?

    March 26, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Ben Johnson

      now THAT deserves an 'amen'!

      March 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Safe

      They were asked for their opinion. Last time I checked, we still had the right to one in this country or has it gone socialist without proclamation officially?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • SparrFlorida

      The church does pay taxes! Your ignorance of our governmental system is telling. We as individual members of the body of Christ (Church) pay taxes to our government. So, what is your argument? Please go back, educate yourself, and stop being emotionally boosted or stuck on stupid!

      March 26, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • skytag

      Safe, real socialists advocate freedom of speech.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
  10. michele4lost

    I guess we dont need law,because everyone is trying to create their own law.Everyone knows it all!What then when we have a world where everyone does what they want when they want by how they think.We wont need law enforcement,or a president,because everyone runs the show.And attack on believers,hypocrite.you believe in gay rights that is a believer,you believe in no creator that is a believer,everyone wants everyone to believe their way,so to attack another believer is attacking your own belief.this is a country and world divided,hateful,arrogant.throwing arrows at each other.everyone is a sinner,Christ died for our sins,do we still sin,yes.but to carry it around boastfully is wrong.my oppioion is this,if you are gay and want to get married why bang on the church doors expecting them to do it?That is not their belief, it was to marry the man and women.And your angry and rally,well go to the justice if allowed have them write there own vows,without scripture and God in it,because God is not for that.Why go to a God believing Congress man and ask him to change,find one that believes the way you do.Look there are many who believe in God and Christ,but you are not forced to go to church,right.you are not forced to celebrate our holidays,but many are trying to change christians and make them believe the way they do,and take their rights.Is the world going to carry on like this.no.is the world going to blow up.no.war is spawned from the same hate you carry with you all the time.pointed fingers.Where is your love?Love for yourself,no love for just your group,no.for everyone.When can you walk up to someone and say hey I dont believe what you do,but I still love you and wish the best for you.I love you broken hearted,I love you fatherless,I love you no matter what color you are,I love you no matter how you dress,or if you cover your head,I love you even if I dont understand you,I love you if you are lost,or hurt,I love you even though you may not love me.take care and God Bless

    March 26, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      try decaff

      March 26, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Etta

      WOAH! That was some unintelligible diatribe. Who’s banging on the church doors?! Marriage is a civil, secular act. The church did not create marriage, man did. The government should have no power to discriminate against any two people that wish to enter this civil bond.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
  11. Bill R. Boulware

    GOD made Adam and Eve(Man and Woman)– Not Adam and Steve, Todays Society is abusing freedom and every aspect of it's true meaning. Americans are the worlds biggest Hypocrites. Example: " IN GOD WE TRUST". I see Men kissing Men. Women French kissing Women and it makes me Vomit!. There must be something in the Water or Air that has destroyed our values and Common Sense. BRB.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • sam stone

      "GOD made Adam and Eve(Man and Woman)– Not Adam and Steve"

      Wow Adam and Steve.....how cutting edge.

      "Todays Society is abusing freedom and every aspect of it's true meaning. Americans are the worlds biggest Hypocrites. Example: " IN GOD WE TRUST". I see Men kissing Men. Women French kissing Women and it makes me Vomit!"

      So, if it makes you vomit it is abusing freedom?

      " There must be something in the Water or Air that has destroyed our values and Common Sense"

      No, it is religion that has done that.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • BRC

      BRB,
      In God We Trust wasn't our original motto, it was added MUCH later in a time of political paranoia. Freedom is allowing others to live their lives how they best see fit, so long as it doesn't harm you or the people around them. Not seeing a lot of hypocracy in some same gender canoodling.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • sam stone

      Also, Billy Boy, what is the TRUE meaning of freedom?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • sam stone

      BRB: You are abusing punctuation by capitalizing random words

      March 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Humans evolved from earlier hominid species. We became modern humans over 200,000 years ago. There was no Adam. There was no Eve. All humans did not descend from one breeding pair – it's genetically impossible.

      Sorry.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Matt

      Wow Bill – do you have nothing more than "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve?" A trite little cliches bandied about by only the tiniest of minds is not an argument. And if everything that makes you vomit should be outlawed, then we'd better make turpentine, animal feces and a good punch in the gut illegal

      March 26, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • Saraswati

      "GOD made Adam and Eve(Man and Woman)– Not Adam and Steve"

      Do people really still say this? I thought that went out around 1985.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • sftommy

      Love God and don't begrudge the love He indulges others, His creations won't upset the stomach so much.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • skytag

      What is your evidence that the creation story as found in the book of Genesis is anything more than a fairytale?

      For the record, what the Nazis did to the Jews bothers me more than two men kissing, and most Nazis were Christians.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
  12. censored in the usa

    Hey CNN, what's up with the comment deletes? No swearing or inappropriate wording. Do you have an agenda to censor certain opinions? You are showing your true colors.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Are you sure you aren't having trouble with the automatic word / word fragment filter ?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Paul

      sometimes the words are in the middle of other words like t.it. In consti.tution.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • skytag

      I've wondered at times if maybe their system automatically deletes comments if enough people report them as inappropriate.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
  13. Sly

    Popping tea party patriot heads, people getting smoted, God's address, marry God not women, and we are all going to hell to dance with a little red man with horns who lives 122 miles deep in the earth's core.

    Wow ... I love the Religion page.

    But how come no one knows God's opinion on Passover horseradish? Some of you talk to Him daily, so next time you call, please remember to ask Him.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
  14. Neil

    Demonic manifestation and perp.............. the proclamation of se.xual idolatry and immorality.

    Why do all seven churches in revelation have a warning against se.xual immorality? Because this is a major area of concern. There are certain agendas that are led by Satan and His followers. Ga.y marriage is the tip of the iceberg for a nation that exalts se.xual sin and tempt.ation. We are a po.rnified nation. Our children are being por.nified. And I for one, know that this is a demonic attack of the highest severity.

    When you can no longer browse a "NEWS web site" without having soft core po.rn subliminalized advertising in your face, you know that the devil is in control. And I am behind the middle east and Arabic morality in this sense. The united states is a leader in evil. This should be forbidden, as well as the perverted se.xual agenda. USE DISCRETION .

    March 26, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Paul

      Look out behind you!!! It's SATAN!!!!! Booga booga!!!!

      March 26, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Mark Stevenson

      Yes, those churches that have all those child abuse cases 1000's of them by the church leaders. Yeah, let's listen to the child abuse leaders!

      March 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Thoth

      What sort of babbling bs is that?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Neil

      Why do all seven churches in revelation have a warning against se.xual immorality?

      the answer is clearly not "we are supposed to exalt se.xual immorality."

      your pointing the finger appears to suggest that we are supposed proclaim immorality. This is the kind of demonic evasion of repentance that I would expect for a true manifestation of satanic pride.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • Neil

      I do think the Devil is at work here but not in the sense that the fundamentalists believe. I believe the Devil uses fundamentalists to create hatred, intolerance and division. Isn't that what the Devil wants? So, instead of quoting nonsense components of the bible, why not love thy neighbor and let God take care of the rest. Stop doing the Devil's work.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Neil Z

      by the way, I'm Neil Z, not Neil in my earlier post

      March 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
  15. John

    Since many know "exactly" how God thinks (without ever haven seen or talked directly)..................but back to basics.......where is the proof that GOd is a Man? that he/she is white? that he/she is an adult rather than a child? You can't answer the basics, and yet you know EXACTLY what he/she believes............interesting........you are very smart...........

    March 26, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Safe

      One word answer for you John...
      Jesus.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      one word answer which says just as much
      Frodo

      March 26, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • JakeAZ

      i know for sure god is a purple unicorn on the dark side of the moon, and i know exactly what it is thinking, and it doesn't like all the gay bashing coming from the right wing. PROVE i'm wrong.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • sftommy

      God blesses gays and lesbians into Holey Matrimony everyday. Why would anyone try to deny the will of God? Lots of folks with some soul searching to do about their powers vis-a-vis those of God.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Many same $ex couples get married every day...no gods required.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • skytag

      Safe, your one word answer is no answer at all.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
  16. MT

    I'd be very happy to hear god's position on this issue. He would have to, you know, show up and give it to us. He can do that, right? Because he's not imaginary, right?

    March 26, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • philip

      read the bible, "THE LORD GOD" already told us what marriage "IS".

      March 26, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • censored in the usa

      You are a heartbeat away from finding out for yourself.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "philip", but "Lord" and "God" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Doobs

      read the Bhagavad Gita , "KRISHNA" already told us what marriage "IS".

      March 26, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • sam stone

      Phillip: Marriage is what the state says it is. Insert your HOLY BIBLE up your rectum

      March 26, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Akira

      For people who want to live according to what you think God's laws are, you certainly have the religious liberty to do that.
      They cannot be codified into secular law, thanks to the 1st amendment, which was written like that for this very reason.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • sftommy

      God blesses gay and lesbian weddings everyday! Praise the Lord!

      March 26, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
  17. Arcy

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-p98umv1gg&w=560&h=315]

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-p98umv1gg&w=640&h=360]

    March 26, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • JC

      Wow! Hate hidden in a cute rhyme saying it isn't hate. Just Wow.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Thoth

      Sad...just sad to see a young person clearly poisoned with bigotry. A saying comes to mind: "anything to s.tupid to be said is sung" – Voltaire

      March 26, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • sam stone

      Isn't that nice? Another mouthy jeebus sucking gash

      March 26, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Arcy

      Great poem. It's all true.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • Arcy

      @ Sam.. Why the hatred? What has she done to you? So much for who is the one expressing hate here, huh? Hypocrite much?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • JC

      Just live and let live. If the way I live my life condemns me to be judged in end then let me be judged. I just don't understand why so many people are concerned with me...be concerned with yourself and live as you believe, but please let me live as I believe.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • skytag

      Arcy, this girl is just spewing her hatred for gays, making false claims about them, and disparaging them repeatedly. The idea that people can choose what attracts them to another person is just silly. If that were possible I'd choose to be attracted to fat ugly women because it would really open up my dating options.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
  18. Live4Him

    @clarity : Don't need empirical evidence, Gullible4Him, for the whole thing to be very, very fishy.

    Ahhhh.... So this is just your apriori views.

    @clarity : Reasonable evidence would certainly have to be something beyond what has been demonstrated so far.

    You've already stated that you're not basing this on empirical evidence, so you don't know what has and has not been demonstrated so far.

    @BRC : In the passages you listed, when Jesus discusses his coming

    Not quite. In some of the passages, He discusses His arrival to His kingdom while others mention His return to this earth.

    @BRC : Do you believe he meant something else? What is your interpretation?

    The passages hinge upon the meaning of the Greek words used in the passages. Some of the passages refer to His return to this earth (i.e. Matthew 24:32-35), while others refer to His ascension (i.e. Mark 9:1). In this last passage, the phrase 'see the kingdom of God after it has come with power' uses the Greek word 'erchomai' which means 'to enter into'. So, it can be translated as "coming" or "arriving", which leads to the confusion. My point is that one must understand the original language before one can take a claim that it is saying something disputable.

    @Paul : Clarity, according to Live4Him those pagan stories never existed

    Of course they exist! Even today they agnositic religion is attempting to distort the original message in the Bible.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • BRC

      Live4Him,
      So, do you believe that during those speeches Jesus was talking about his return to heaven, not his return to Earth?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • Goodfealla

      Lie4Him
      apriori views. how stupid are you? What are your views? What do you hope to achieve with the same babble bullsh1t everyday?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Tim H

      Okay, Live4Him. I'll stop bashing your lunacy when He shows up.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • clarity

      clarity : "Don't need empirical evidence, Gullible4Him, for the whole thing to be very, very fishy."

      L4H: "Ahhhh.... So this is just your apriori views."

      clarity : "Reasonable evidence would certainly have to be something beyond what has been demonstrated so far."

      L4H: "You've already stated that you're not basing this on empirical evidence, so you don't know what has and has not been demonstrated so far."

      I certainly am aware of what the claim Christianity has made regarding the existence and supernatural nature of the Christ character. As an agnostic atheist there are many things that I would claim not to have knowledge of for lack of empirical evidence. Again, my point (since you fail to stay with the original posts – for the benefit of new readers) was to note that what makes the entire claim of Christianity "fishy" is:

      1) Anonymously-written gospels.
      2) Opinion, among a significant number of scholars that the writings about the gospels have been tampered with
      3) That several early Christian apologists, such as Justin Martyr could only up with the whacky notion of 'diabolical mimicry' to explain why the gospels looked so much like earlier writings.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Science

      News Release evolution wins

      3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)

      University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube

      Media Note: To request high resolution images of Dr. Seelig and/or of a 3D structure of the evolved enzyme, please contact Matt Hodson at mjhodson@umn.edu.

      http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2013/UR_CONTENT_429344.html

      March 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Paul

      Personally, I didn't think the bible was fishy until after I read it. Up until then I just assumed what my parents and teachers said about it was true. Once I read it I was able to realize it for the nonsense that it truly is.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @BRC : So, do you believe that during those speeches Jesus was talking about his return to heaven, not his return to Earth?

      It depends upon the context of the passages. Which passage are you referencing? If you're really interested in this, lets dissect a passage. I'll show you how I determine its topic.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Prehistoric shark captured on film

      Who is fishy ? .

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mneDhOtVEQw&w=640&h=360]

      March 26, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • BRC

      Live4Him,
      The point is to acutally NOT spend time trying to get into the minutia of how someone may or may not have interpreted an ancient Greek word;l but instead distill the the message and what it would really mean in the world. If you believe that all fo the passages are Jesus discussing his acention to Heaven, then no worries, supposedly that's where he is, you can be happy that he's there. BUT, if you believe that ANY of those passages discuss his impending return, and put it on a timeline with the life of the people who heard him say it (and many public interpretations do just that), then there is a problem. The world still exists, the sinners and non-believers haven't all been cast down, and Heaven doesn't reign on Earth, so at least some of those passages would be wrong. Do you see the point I'm making?

      For the sake of compromise, we'll sue this one-
      Mark 9:1 And Jesus was saying to them, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
      DO you think this was ascention, or heaven coming to Earth?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Every time someone makes a point in a thread that exposes L4H's silliness s/he either abandons it or pulls the discussion into a new thread.

      March 26, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
  19. stubbycat

    Actually, Athy, Clarity, and Akira, the Divine Mind commonly called "God" exists and in your truth, you always reflect this Mind. The Master who controlled material phenomena and teaches others to do so through spiritual science gives to humanity ample evidence to mortals throughout human history and so do the few who understand and practice the Master's Way. The only "side" on this or any other issue is the consciousness of Divine Mind and its encompassing love.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • Akira

      Actually, stubbycat, I am arguing for the secular laws of the United States, which God doesn't enter into.
      Eye on the ball, please.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • MT

      More made-up nonsense. Sigh.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • skytag

      More religious rambling unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Thoth

      ....so.....if we are all a reflection of this 'divine mind' would that not make ho mo se xu ality also a reflection of this 'divine mine'?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Arcy

      @ Akira, By secular laws, do you mean the ones put in place by our founding fathers, most of whom believed in God, or those laws drafted by the first settlers called the Mayflower Compact? The laws of our country, penned by our founding fathers, were those they derived from principles found in Scripture? Is it THOSE "secular" laws to which you refer?

      March 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • skytag

      Arcy, your snide questions aside, secular laws are laws not based solely on religious beliefs. They are not laws proposed by atheists. The fact that a law is proposed and adopted by believers can still be a secular law.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
  20. Collin

    They both think god is on their side because god is imaginary.

    March 26, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • PJR

      Collin – you are so lost. Look around you.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • stubbycat

      The Divine Mind is no more "imaginary" than what you perceive as your own existence. You may not understand Divinity just as you don't know why or for what purpose you exist, but spiritual understanding is possible and more people are accomplishing this. An important point for you Bible thumpers to remember is this: the Master said that the marriage state will be put off in the heavenly state because human sensuality won't exist. The test as to whether so called "Christians" understand his message is whether they can do the works that he did and bring love and light to the world. The fact is that most "Christians" can't and don't, speaks volumes on how much of a follower of his they are.

      March 26, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • skytag

      PJR, I look around me all the time and never see any evidence that God exists.

      March 26, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.