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At evangelical colleges, a shifting attitude toward gay students
A group of Wheaton College alumni formed OneWheaton to offer an alternative view on sexuality from the evangelical school.
March 30th, 2013
09:15 AM ET

At evangelical colleges, a shifting attitude toward gay students

By Sarah Pulliam Bailey, For CNN

Wheaton, Illinois (CNN)– Combing through prayer requests in a Wheaton College chapel in 2010, then-junior Benjamin Matthews decided to do something “absurdly unsafe.”

He posted a letter on a public forum bulletin board near students' post office boxes. In the letter, he came out as gay and encouraged fellow gay Christian students - some of whom had anonymously expressed suicidal plans in a pile of the prayer requests - to contact him if they needed help.

In a student body of 2,400 undergraduates in the suburbs of Chicago, at what is sometimes called the Harvard of evangelical schools, Matthews said that 15 male students came out to him. Other students seemed somewhat ambivalent about his coming out, he said.

No one told him he was wrong or needed to change, Matthews said some students were obviously uncomfortable with someone who would come out as gay and remain a Christian.

“I don’t think most Wheaton students knew what to do because they've been given ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ rhetoric, but they don't know how that plays out in real life,” said Matthews, who graduated in 2011. “They would mostly just listen, nod and say, ‘Yeah man, that’s hard.’”

As is the case at many evangelical colleges, Wheaton students sign an agreement to not have sex outside of marriage, including "the use of pornography ... premarital sex, adultery, homosexual behavior and all other sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage."

On campus, the college created an official group in February for students to explore questions of gender identity and sexual orientation. The group is intended as a “safe place for students who have questions about their sexual orientation or gender identity,” where students may self-identify as LGBTQ.

But cultural and political changes have created tensions for the academic and student life environment. As more mainline denominations ordain openly gay clergy and more states pass same-sex laws, some gay evangelicals – and their allies - are openly deviating from Wheaton’s official and long-held positions. Well-known Christian author Rob Bell, a graduate of Wheaton, came out in favor of gay marriage in mid-March.

OneWheaton, a group unaffiliated with the college, wants to offer an alternative view on homosexuality from that of the evangelical school. The group, which is not explicitly religious, wants GLBT students to feel affirmed in their sexuality, acting as a support network for students struggling with their sexual identity, whether they choose to be openly gay or whether they choose to remain celibate. But leaders of the group say that gay Christians do not need to be celibate to retain their religious identify.

“For those of you feeling alienated, it gets better,” says OneWheaton’s founding statement, signed by about 700 GLBT and straight, alumni, echoing Dan Savage’s national “It Gets Better” campaign for gay youth. “Your desire for companionship, intimacy and love is not shameful. It is to be affirmed and celebrated just as you are to be affirmed and celebrated.”

A widespread question

Wheaton is hardly the only evangelical college that’s seeing a growing spectrum of responses toward homosexuality among students, alumni and staff.

Last year, a group at Biola University in southern California came out with posters and a website called Biola Queer Underground. The group describes itself as “like-minded LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer) students and allies who have formed a private underground community in which we share our life struggles, as well as our love and support for one another.” Biola then issued a “statement on human sexuality” saying, "God’s design for marriage and sexuality is the foundational reason for viewing acts of sexual intimacy between a man and a woman outside of marriage, and any act of sexual intimacy between two person of the same sex, as illegitimate moral options for the confessing Christian.”

Groups from at least two Christian schools, Eastern University in Pennsylvania and George Fox University in Oregon, have formed OneEastern and OneGeorgeFox, which launched public websites in 2012.

About 200 LGBT and straight alumni from California’s evangelical Westmont College co-signed a letter to the student newspaper suggesting they experienced "doubt, loneliness and fear due to the college's stance on lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender issues."

Many Christian schools have different regional, historical and denominational ties that keep issues related to sexuality complex and keep these institutions from responding monolithically.

Wheaton’s well-known alumni include evangelist Billy Graham, former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert and former George W. Bush speechwriter Mike Gerson. To come out at the college, OneWheaton’s organizers say, is to risk losing a network of fellow-minded alumni.

“Part of OneWheaton is showing that while people are risking their networks, they'll have people they can turn to,” said OneWheaton spokeswoman Kristin Winn, who came out six months after graduating in 2007.

The married-sex-only agreement that Wheaton students and faculty sign is part of the college’s Community Covenant, which says that students agree the Bible condemns “sexual immorality, such as the use of pornography, premarital sex, adultery, homosexual behavior and all other sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage between a man and woman.” Few students self-identify as gay, and if they do, it has different implications based on their expressed beliefs and behavior. Students can self-identify as gay, but college officials consider each student on a case-by-case basis if it comes into question.

Members of OneWheaton attend an athletic event on campus.

“What matters is the moral understanding of the person and how that matches with our institutional identity and the moral behavior that flows from the understanding. There’s no formula to how this gets applied," said Wheaton's Provost Stan Jones, a psychologist who has written several books on sexuality.

Students who openly deviate from or openly advocate for deviation from the covenant may be dismissed from the school, Jones said.

Alumni say some gay students have been asked to leave or been counseled to leave Wheaton. No member of Wheaton would be asked or counseled to leave this institution on the basis of sexual orientation alone, Jones said, and he is not aware of any cases where people were dismissed only because of sexual orientation.

Jones said it would be difficult to say whether a student who signed OneWheaton’s statement would be in open disagreement with the covenant, though he is not aware of any student who has left or been dismissed over involvement with the group. “We’re not in a rush to show people the door,” Jones said. “We want Wheaton College to be a community where people can wrestle with these issues.”

The balance, college officials say, is between preserving the theological integrity of the school while leaving room for questions.

“Articulating orthodox Christian theological beliefs and moral convictions itself is and ought to be an expression of grace,” said Philip Ryken, president of Wheaton, explaining the college's stance on sexual behavior in response to OneWheaton's emergence. “Those theological principles and moral guidelines are an expression of God’s character and the best way to live.”

Homosexuality is not a focus at Wheaton more than any other college, said Ryken, but culture places a priority on sex. The college does not keep track of the number of students who leave over homosexuality, he said. “There are a variety of challenges that different Christian colleges and universities face from people advocating homosexuality,” Ryken said in an interview in his campus office. “OneWheaton has been clear in saying they’re not interested in changing the college, but it remains to be seen what kind of influence they desire and may seek to have.”

A growing trend

Evangelical colleges likely face generational differences in attitudes toward sexuality as younger evangelicals develop friendships with people who are gay, says David Kinnaman, president of the Barna Group, a Christian market research firm.

“There has been a shift from rightness to fairness,” Kinnaman said. “There’s a real sense in which their institutional loyalty and their loyalty to theoretical morals and ethical choices are trumped by their peer relationships.”

About 40% of evangelicals between the ages of 18 and 29 are likely to say homosexuality should be accepted by society, compared to 24% of evangelicals who are older than 30, according to the 2007 religious landscape survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. But there is still less acceptance of homosexuality by evangelicals than by other young people. The same Pew poll found that 63% of Americans age 18 to 29 say homosexuality should be accepted by society, as do about half of Americans ages 30 to 64.

As a younger demographic is less opposed to gay marriage, they are also are more likely than before to identify as pro-life. Forty-one percent consider themselves "pro-choice," a record low since Gallup began asking the question.

“During the last five to seven years, there has been a definite uptick in interest [in homosexuality],” says Michael Hamilton, a history professor at Seattle Pacific. “As evangelicals and the main currency of American culture converge, an increasing number of gay students are going to say, ‘Wait a minute. I don't see a problem.’”

Last year, students at Seattle Pacific University received student support and a faculty letter backing a group’s desire to discuss being gay. Its administration approved the request but declined to give it official status. In 2010, Abilene Christian University declined to grant official status to a gay-straight alliance.

Michael Lindsay, president of Gordon College in Massachusetts, said that homosexuality is just one of a basket of issues that evangelical schools are dealing with now for the first time.

“Any moral issue dealing with the body gets a visceral response,” said Lindsay, who said future important issues will include bioethics, disability and other questions dealing with life. “Because sex is tied in with the body, naturally it’s one of those issues folks will have highly charged responses.”

Facing alternative views

The Wheaton alumni group, OneWheaton, was initially a private Facebook network that went public partly in reaction to an April 2011 chapel service at Wheaton featuring Wesley Hill, a gay Wheaton alumnus who says he chooses to be celibate, a path that some gay students and alumni take. Hill wrote the 2010 book “Washed and Waiting,” about being gay, Christian, and celibate, and told students how he came to his position that sex is between man and a woman in marriage.

“I found myself convinced of the position the church has held with almost totally unanimity throughout the ages, that although many people find themselves, through no fault of their own, to have sexual desires for members of their own sex, this is not something to be affirmed and celebrated, but is a sign that we’re broken, in need of redemption and recreation,” Hill told students.

“Gay people are not uniquely broken,” he said. “That’s a position we share with every other human who has ever lived or will live. But we are, nonetheless, broken. And following Jesus means turning our back on a life of sexual sin, just as it does for every other Christian.”

According to a survey conducted by the Wheaton student newspaper in 2008, about 5% of students (mostly male) reported having "had a homosexual experience." About 56% of students agree or strongly agree that homosexuals are not welcome at Wheaton, the survey reported.

OneWheaton is working to change that in some in-your-face ways. During one homecoming weekend, the group held a concert featuring Jennifer Knapp, a former contemporary Christian Music musician who came out as a lesbian in 2010. “Although I disagree with painting sexual orientation and gender identity as a biblical sin, Wheaton has a right to that interpretation,” Knapp said. “But I don’t know how you can be welcoming but not affirming.”

Knapp questions whether colleges such as Wheaton present alternative theological positions.

“Whether it’s alcohol or premarital sex, is Wheaton an academic institution willing to present both sides, or is it wanting to churn out soldiers that believe exactly the same things they do?” said Knapp, who used to identify as evangelical but now disassociates herself from the movement.

The college does not typically host speakers who espouse theology that affirms same-sex behavior, but it does not forbid such discussion from taking place. Administrators say they know that students might end up differing with the college theologically.

“This is not a place of indoctrination,” said Jones. “This is an educational community. We need to have a high level of patience and tolerance for students working through those issues.”

In many ways, Jones said, students need to be thoughtfully engaging the issues.

“Many students have only heard about homosexuality in the context of ‘Those bad people who we must oppose,’” he said. “There are many in our student body who want to engage these issues sympathetically, but there are others who are prone to thoughtless speech that can lean in the direction of incivility.”

At the same time, he said, Christian colleges are facing outside professional and political pressure on gay issues. Wheaton administrators spent several months preparing for a 2006 visit from Soulforce, a group aiming to change religious leaders' minds on gay issues that was co-founded by Mel White, who was a ghost writer for some evangelical leaders, including Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell.

Soulforce members had been arrested at other Christian campuses that ban same-sex behavior, but the group had a cordial gathering at Wheaton and visited again last year.

In 2009, the American Philosophical Association adopted a procedure to “flag” ads from employers that ban same-sex sexual conduct.

“I find that extraordinarily ironic for a discipline that prides itself on spirited debate about fundamental issues,” Jones said. “You are inviting the erosion of your distinctions if you don’t draw some boundaries.”

Administrators also are carefully watching court cases related to federal funding and hiring practices, where the government could pull funding if an institution is deemed discriminatory.

Faculty are expected to sign the same covenant as students, and those who advocate for something contrary to the stated beliefs would be called into question, Jones said.

“If a person disagreed with a clear assertion of the covenant, that has implications regardless of their status, even for those who have tenure,” Jones said. In faculty applications, he would consider where a professor stands on sexual intimacy as between a man and a woman in marriage, though questions about whether gay marriage should be legal at a state level would not necessarily come up. “We don’t ask about their civic views of gay marriage,” he said. “I would not be looking for their policies on a governmental policy voting.”

On the “Day of Silence” in April 2012, about 90 students wearing white T-shirts printed with "break the silence" attended a campus-hosted discussion about homosexuality, such as whether Wheaton can be considered a "safe place" for gay students. “You are telling LGBTQ students that no matter where they end up on their journey of identity, you care for them, respect them, and will remain their friend,” OneWheaton leaders wrote on a sign-up form for students who wanted to wear T-shirts. One alumnus came out to the rest of the group.

Matthews, the student who came out at Wheaton in 2010 – he now teaches middle school science in Connecticut - wrestles with whether the group OneWheaton will be an effective network since its views are far from the college’s stance on sexuality. He said he followed Wheaton’s agreement to refrain from premarital sex during school, but his personal views on the morality of homosexuality have shifted.

Matthews was attracted to men when he began college but hoped he would begin liking women.

He considered sexual orientation conversion therapy, which some evangelical Christians embrace but which the American Psychological Association has said is ineffective and could be damaging. After the Episcopal Church ordained its second openly gay bishop in 2010, Matthews began reading more and eventually embraced a theology that suggests gay Christians do not need to be celibate. At one point, he considered becoming an Episcopal priest.

Matthews said Wheaton was a safe place to come out because he could work through both being gay and being a Christian. If he had gone to another college, he said he might have stayed closeted because people might suggest abandoning his faith, something he wasn't willing to relinquish.

“Quite ironically, had I not gone to Wheaton, I might not have come out,” Matthews said. “They weren’t going to say what I presumed people at other colleges would tell me, which is, ‘If you have conflict between your faith and sexuality, drop the faith.’ No one at Wheaton was going to tell me that.”

Editor's Note: Sarah Pulliam Bailey is managing editor for Odyssey Networks.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity

soundoff (1,024 Responses)
  1. .

    atomD21
    Personally, I find Christians that only care about preserving their moral supremacy at the cost of everyone else to be a far greater evil than same gender oriented individuals seeking equal treamtent in a country founded on the principles of freedom and equality.

    why do you lie?

    April 1, 2013 at 9:01 am |
    • .

      "End Religion
      If he had only existed you might not be quite as crazy as you are."

      stop lying

      April 1, 2013 at 9:04 am |
    • Agnes of Dog

      You're claiming a lot of lying here, dottie. You would need proof to show that is true. Care to share in the truth, dottie? Ah – I didn't think so.

      April 1, 2013 at 9:32 am |
    • Mike S

      Do you really have experience with a Christian that has told you they are superior? If you do you are not dealing with a genuine Christian. Christians of all people clearly understand they are sinners and no better than any other. Recognizing your sinful state is the first step to accepting the need for a savior. Too many non Christians claim this simply because they become uncomfortable with the guilt we all feel when we consider the concept of sin. We want to live our own way not according to a concept of right or wrong. There is also the non Christian erroneous idea thet we can be saved by being good or less bad than someone else. Christians know this is untrue. No amount of good works can save us. That too is an idea that non Christians misconstrue as criticism of them. Christians too many times are misunderstood regarding these issues and the non Christian then unleashes unfair condemnation. The Christian and the non Christian are identical with only one exception. Christians have a personal relationship with the God who created everything and lived a homeless, pauper's life in this world only to be tortured and killed by a horrific method because of ignorance, pride, selfishness, and greed. Things we are all capable of Christian or not.

      April 1, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • sam stone

      the concept of sin is entirely man made. why should non believers care one way or another? without "sin", christianity is dead in the water

      April 2, 2013 at 2:59 am |
    • hee hee

      @MikeS:

      One of the main psychological attractions of the stricter Christian sects is the license to be self-righteous. How have you failed to notice this?

      April 2, 2013 at 9:33 am |
  2. atomD21

    I have come to the realization that you cannot call yourself a follower of Christ, or Christian, and actively discriminate against a whole segment of the population that is hurting no one and just looking for equal treatment under the law. Jesus was fair to all, and showed no favoritism to any specific group. In fact, the only group he ever spoke negatively about were the holier than thous of his day, who desired to look clean and righteous, but were just the opposite. Sounds familiar to the current Evangelical movement we have today. Spending all their time and money trying to have huge churches and just the right clothes for Sunday mornings so they can look holier than all the others, all the while letting the world crumble around them...

    April 1, 2013 at 3:38 am |
    • .

      how cute is that?

      this complete piece of garbage is condemning christians for not loving everyone while she attacks all christians for only desiring to build bigger churches and wear nice clothes. they do this, according to this hypocrite, merely to look holier than others and in doing so, they neglect the world which is crumbling.

      jerk, if you are going to be an idiot, try to do a better job concealing what a punk atheist you are.

      atomD21
      I have come to the realization that you cannot call yourself a follower of Christ, or Christian, and actively discriminate against a whole segment of the population that is hurting no one and just looking for equal treatment under the law. Jesus was fair to all, and showed no favoritism to any specific group. In fact, the only group he ever spoke negatively about were the holier than thous of his day, who desired to look clean and righteous, but were just the opposite. Sounds familiar to the current Evangelical movement we have today. Spending all their time and money trying to have huge churches and just the right clothes for Sunday mornings so they can look holier than all the others, all the while letting the world crumble around them...

      April 1, 2013 at 8:34 am |
    • Agnes of Dog

      The world's always been crumbling forever in the lunatic mind of the fundy nutter.

      April 1, 2013 at 9:27 am |
    • Agnes of Dog

      (my comment was regarding the idiot dottie reply)

      April 1, 2013 at 9:38 am |
  3. His panic

    Panic, panic all over the place, panic on the Left and panic on the Right.

    March 31, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • atomD21

      Panic at the disco?

      April 1, 2013 at 3:40 am |
    • Akira

      Decent band.

      April 1, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • jed clampett

      I've got a Methodist cloring book, but will go to hell because i colored outside of the lines!

      April 3, 2013 at 12:27 am |
  4. .

    atheists know. they pray all the time

    March 31, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • End Religion

      atheists know prayer doesn't work.

      March 31, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • .

      end religion, do us a favor, please? when you try to deceive, try harder. see, my love, you have no way of knowing whether prayer works or not. i don't mind if you are going to burn for eternity in hell, that is your decision, but i tire of your overly simplistic, bold faced stupid lies.

      End Religion
      atheists know prayer doesn't work.

      April 1, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • Agnes of Dog

      "whether prayer works or not. i don't mind if you are going to burn for eternity in hell"

      The dot idiot attempts reason, but then lapses back into mythology. LOL.

      April 1, 2013 at 9:28 am |
    • birch please

      ".", you are just going to one less H3ll (out of 1,000s) then the rest of us. congratulations on you feeling of superiority, "my love".

      April 1, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @.

      It is always apparent that religion makes one so amazingly arrogant that they believe they can tell other people what they believe.
      You truly are a pathetic individual.

      April 1, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • hee hee

      Yes, I pray you'll stop pulling facts out of your a&(

      April 2, 2013 at 9:35 am |
  5. rightaway999

    Read "Screwtape Letters" and then see if you sense who is behind this whole movement. It's not a hard test.

    March 31, 2013 at 7:26 am |
    • Geesh

      I think it is a hard balance. There are other sins described that are not God's best that in modern culture have been accepted, divorce, adultery gossiping etc. it doesn't change what God says about these things either. My personal challenge is how to live with this dichotomy

      March 31, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Frank

      The usual insane religious response is that the Devil did it. Why would a sado-masochistic freak like C.S. Lewis be considered a moral authority?

      March 31, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • atomD21

      Personally, I find Christians that only care about preserving their moral supremacy at the cost of everyone else to be a far greater evil than same gender oriented individuals seeking equal treamtent in a country founded on the principles of freedom and equality. Explain where God is in the parents that are told to reject their ho mo se xu al children, or in the huge sanctuary full of people that spend their time gossiping about and insulting one another. Where is God in the church that cares only for a person's immortal soul and lets people starve because of the mindless dogma that this place is not our home? I see the work of the Devil in that much more than the pro gay movement. And before you accuse me of being an Atheist or God hater, I am a Christian that has seen far too much of the damage our theology does to continue abiding by it.

      April 1, 2013 at 3:49 am |
    • hee hee

      Wait... the boogeyman!?!?

      Grow up.

      April 2, 2013 at 9:37 am |
  6. In celebration of the resurrection of Christ

    Thank you Jesus !

    March 31, 2013 at 6:31 am |
    • Easter Celebration

      Amen! Today, EASTER Sunday, is representative of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ Our LORD and Savior! He was born in a simple manger and upon His death for mankind He extended His arms on the cross with Love for everyone. He resurrected on the third day and is with God His Father and shall return again. Who is ready to enter into Heaven? Are you Born Again?!

      March 31, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • .

      He kinda had no choice but to extend His arms on the cross, did He?

      March 31, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • End Religion

      If he had only existed you might not be quite as crazy as you are.

      March 31, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
  7. .

    what it is?

    March 31, 2013 at 3:54 am |
  8. .

    no?

    March 31, 2013 at 3:54 am |
    • .

      Talking to yourself again?

      March 31, 2013 at 10:55 am |
  9. Bootyfunk

    the article could be t.itled:

    Christian Students Stop Following the Bible So Closely and Become Less Bigoted

    want to be a good person? stop following ignorant commands in the bible like the one that says to kill g.ays. (Lev 20:13) basically, to be a better person, move away from the bible.

    March 30, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Well, yes, but it would hardly look good.

      And in reality I think they are following some parts more closely and others less, so maybe:

      "Christian Students Shift their Selective Adherence to Bible Passages to Focus More on those that Aren't so Obviously Stupid"

      March 30, 2013 at 9:30 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      i can think of many parts of the bible christians don't follow - what parts do they follow more closely?

      March 30, 2013 at 9:49 pm |
    • Saraswati

      I think it could be argued they are more closely following the love your neighbor as yourself dictate when making the effort to fully understand others. As a non-Christian I don't particularly care about the details, just noting that they do seem to shift focus rather than abandoning the text, which isn't a change since that's what Christians have really been doing all along.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:55 pm |
    • clarity

      saraswati: "shift focus rather than abandoning the text, which isn't a change since that's what Christians have really been doing all along."

      Exactly.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • sensible

      We all know they just cherry pick their book of magic to support their position on anything and their biases. This is been going on since they assembled that ambiguous book. If they truly followed it they would end up dead or in prison since it gives instructions to kill for almost any minor infraction.

      March 30, 2013 at 10:20 pm |
    • Serene

      How cute. Gave Them Up is singing to its reflection.

      March 30, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
    • Serene

      I noticed that you are awfully obsessed with penises, Gave Them Up. It's OK to acknowledge that you may be gay.

      March 30, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Root post was effn awesome. the comments less so.

      March 30, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • .

      want to be a good person? stop following ignorant commands in the bible like the one that says to kill g.ays. (Lev 20:13) basically, to be a better person, move away from the bible.

      dorothy, get some education. u make urself out to be such an idiot.

      April 1, 2013 at 9:34 am |
  10. Chad

    @Bostontola "Do they teach evolution at evangelical colleges?"

    =>Well, if they dont teach theistic evolution they certainly should. It's one of the more powerful pieces of evidence of the God of Israel.

    For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse - Romans 1

    March 30, 2013 at 7:54 pm |
    • The real Tom

      There's no evidence that any god exists, Chard. If there were real, incontrovertible evidence, everyone would believe. Every scientist would acknowledge your "theistic evolution" as fact.

      It isn't. They don't.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:58 pm |
    • Edweird69

      "Theistic evolution".. now I've heard it all !! Christians... I gotta hand it to ya... you're consistent with your delusions.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Indeed. If there were something that the God of Israel had made, and we could see it and know it for something that could only have been made and made by the God of Israel, then you would have the thing you lack, Chad – evidence of a God and evidence of the God of Israel in particular.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:01 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Yeah, Ed. You should read the explanations Chard makes about how "theistic evolution" differs from plain old evolution. It's a hoot.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:01 pm |
    • Edweird69

      @Tom – I'm afraid to ask. I can't imagine what these mor0ns have invented now. I quit reading fairytales long ago, so hopefully this fairytale will not make its presence known.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • Chad

      @Edweird69 ""Theistic evolution".. now I've heard it all .."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

      http://www.theisticevolution.org/

      never hurts to learn :-)

      March 30, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "Theistic evolution"

      Quoted for comedic relief.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, it would be a step in the right direction if they taught theistic evolution as long as there is no interventionist design. An omniscient omnipotent god would have no need to intervene, it would only need to create the correct initial conditions and we would come out of the oven 4 billion years later.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
    • Science

      Dance Chad dance >>>

      Maybe they should not have created the wedge !!!
      The wedge strategy is a political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Insti-tute, the hub of the intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Insti-tute manifesto known as the Wedge Docu-ment,[1] which describes a broad social, political, and academic agenda who

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

      March 30, 2013 at 8:14 pm |
    • Unity in our belief

      I would agree with chad. Theistic evolution brings the cristian and Hindus and Buddhists together.
      Let us be united in making sure evolution is taught as a fact.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • Science

      Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.

      Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

      http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

      March 30, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
    • Larry

      "Theistic evolution" is possible when you have a definition of God where you insist that he had a hand in things even though there isn't any evidence that he did, and even when his involvement would complicate things more than a simple, natural explanation.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
    • Mark

      "Theistic evolution" isn't any evidence for God, it's an excuse for there not being any evidence.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Theistic evolution isn't in conflict with the science of evolution. That's because God's role is to be a voyeur rather than a participant.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:48 pm |
  11. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    If only there were a God, a Creator God, to infallibly dictate to us out of its infinite knowledge of its creation what sin is and tell us why we must avoid it. There is none. There are only dour men (mostly men, anyway) who think themselves progressive when they can discuss Gay Issues, but go into a sphincter seizure when they learn what a rim job is and that some people actually enjoy them. Why are they so often found behind pulpits and in administrative positions at these little evangelical colleges sharing with young people the fruits of their knowledge of good and evil?

    March 30, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • Russ

      b/c God loves to use fools to shame the wise.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
    • Edweird69

      Amazing the lengths these people will go through, to try to shy away from what they really desire the most... a relationship with the same gender. Cowards! I came out when I was young. It's been a tough battle, but at least I'm not a coward who hides behind a pulpit, or displays my perceived "normalness" by dedicating my azz to sitting on a church pew.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "b/c God loves to use fools to shame the wise."

      He/she's failing spectacularly.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Gave Them Up

      Qweirdo, what's sitting with your fat azz on a pew got to do with anything? You always were dead in the water.You prefer it that way. Likely a gubmint pew anyway.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
    • Russ

      @ TANK: TTTOO & I have conversed before. I thought he'd appreciate the irony of quoting Scripture in response to his question. contrary to his inference, some of us evangelicals do believe – as Paul said – that we are the worst of sinners. we need Christ as much as anyone else, and it's precisely for that reason that God uses idiots like us... so we won't be able to take the credit.

      consider the inverse: how teachable is someone with a superiority complex?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
    • Chad

      @Tom, Tom, the Other One "If only there were a God, a Creator God, to infallibly dictate to us out of its infinite knowledge of its creation what sin is and tell us why we must avoid it. There is none."

      @Chad "how are you demonstrating that the God of Israel does not exist?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:38 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      I see. I have a question.

      "so we won't be able to take the credit."

      Is there a scriptural basis for this statement?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Edweird69

      @GTU – once again, your comment is empty and pathetic. It doesn't make any sense. I even bothered to read it twice... just to make sure it was you who was the 1diot.. and now I'm sure... you are the 1diot.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Russ

      @ TANK: many. have you read much of Paul's letters?

      "And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power." (1 Cor.2:1-5)

      Paul lists off all his greatest accomplishments & then calls them all "rubbish" for the sake of knowing Christ (Php.3:7).

      Paul lists off all his greatest sufferings & then ends by telling his worst embarrassment (2 Cor.11) in order to expose the so-called "super-apostles" who think they are better than anyone else.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • midwest rail

      ".....and wanted us Christians to imitate him. " Epic failure.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Chad: "how are you demonstrating that the God of Israel does not exist?" I do remember that that particular God is important to you Chad. It may or may not exist but, as seems to be true with all such Gods, it does not seem to act in useful ways or in ways that leave any trace at all.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
    • The real Tom

      The bozo formerly known as lol?? says: "I try and not talk above you."

      You knucklehead, you couldn't manage to talk "above" a snail.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
    • Edweird69

      It's impossible to talk above me, because I'm much smarter than you. Speaking in riddles, in a feeble attempt to look intelligent, does nothing more than put your stupidity on public display.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • .

      And GUT is proving once again why she is a cunt.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Ed, you nailed it. Lollypoop is just too stupid to know when it's been bested.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:54 pm |
    • Chad

      @Tom, Tom "If only there were a God,.... There is none."

      @Chad "how are you demonstrating that the God of Israel does not exist?

      @Tom, Tom " It may or may not exist"

      @Chad "you seem confused on your stance.. Are you claiming that the God of Israel may exist, when in your root post you claimed He didnt?

      atheists sure seem to backtrack a lot...

      March 30, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • Edweird69

      @Chad – believers have the notion that atheists exclaim "there is no god". Atheists have a "null stance". They can't prove there are no gods, and believers can't prove there is one. It is a "null stance". Meaning, I'll believe it, when one shred of evidence proves it. There is no reason to believe there are gods.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Let's work on this, Chad. When I was in graduate school I had a part-time job teaching kids who were of normal intelligence, but were cognitively impaired in various interesting ways. We can get you through this.

      There may be no gods. There may be one or more Gods. I assert that there is none that acts out of its knowledge of us as its Creation to dictate what is right or wrong for us. Do you disagree that this is so?

      March 30, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • Chad

      @Tom , Tom "There may be no gods. There may be one or more Gods. I assert that there is none that acts out of its knowledge of us as its Creation to dictate what is right or wrong for us."

      @Chad "well then it seems like you are back to claiming that the God of Israel doesnt exist?. How are you demonstrating that the God of Israel does not exist?

      March 30, 2013 at 8:37 pm |
    • Akira

      Quote mining, especially partial quote mining, is a especially dishonest way to debate.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:41 pm |
    • midwest rail

      ".... especially partial quote mining,...." Well yes, it's dishonest, but how else to make sure the debate stays in the framework of his narrative ? Only Chad knows.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Chad, perhaps you need this: "The God of Israel, by definition, acts in our lives to dictate what is right or wrong, and acts in ways we can reliably detect." I recall that I asserted that no gods act in ways that leave traces or evidence that they have acted. That may rule out the God of Israel. Do you have a counter example?

      March 30, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • Saraswati

      TTTOO, Chad,

      I think all you guys are back to arguing is whether we can detect the existence of a god our not. The "god" TTTOO is talking about is one that is detectable and whose message we are/would be receiving. Chad claims we are already receiving and detecting, TTTOO disagrees. The rest of the discussion is just a boring semantics debate on the original post. Go for the 100th repeat of the debate about whether we have evidence or not if you feel like it, but this is definitely not a new topic.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
    • Chad

      actually, what you as.serted was:

      @Tom, Tom " I as.sert that there is none that acts out of its knowledge of us as its Creation to dictate what is right or wrong for us.""

      so.. as I know you arent afraid of baking up your statements (har, har), what evidence do you have of that as.sertion??

      March 30, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • Chad

      @Saraswati "I think all you guys are back to arguing is whether we can detect the existence of a god our not"

      =>well, it all started with @Tom, Tom claiming that the God of Israel doesnt exist and me asking her to back up that statement with evidence..
      that was followed by some back peddling, sidestepping and attempts at shifting the burden..

      March 30, 2013 at 9:29 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Again, Chard: what evidence do YOU have to the contrary? You're the one who keeps asserting that your god exists, yet you present no evidence that is sufficient to overwhelm everyone. If your evidence is so compelling, why isn't everyone convinced? Why isn't everyone a believer?

      March 30, 2013 at 9:30 pm |
    • The real Tom

      It's BACK PEDALING, you ass, and you're the one engaging in it.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Yes, Saraswati. I will desist.

      Chad, I am male, though humans are female by default.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Chad, I agree the original statement was not well worded, but it could be read a number of different ways. If part of your definition of the God of Israel is that he is putting himself out to be detected then anyone who disagrees that he is detected could be called out as saying your god doesn't exist even if still saying a god might exist.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:34 pm |
    • Chad

      The God of Israel isnt really a definition, or a concept. He is a reality that certainly doesnt rely on me for definition.

      If you want to learn something of what He has done in the past, and what He promises to all believers in His Son Jesus, just start reading.

      see genesis 1, any translation is fine (it was originally written in Hebrew/Greek)

      March 30, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      That is so tempting, Saraswati, but I have no desire to bore you.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • The real Tom

      The bible isn't evidence that a god exists, only that men wrote.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Eh, go at it. I really just wanted to make sure you guys weren't arguing over the wording of a single sentence when it was the debate was really the same one about evidence that we've been having at least since I started reading this board back in November or December.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Btw Chad, I've read the bible cover to cover when I was in college. It was required reading at my school, and though my college was not Christian I did have a Christian (Catholic) instructor for that class. I have referenced the text in part many times since then including in numerous extended discussions with my Aunt who is a highly educated Catholic nun.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:50 pm |
    • Mark

      Chad
      "He is a reality that certainly doesnt rely on me for definition."
      Yet, you believe in "him" so you must have some kind of idea what it is that you believe in. You seem to be avoiding giving a definition because you know that, whatever you give, it won't stand up to scrutiny.

      Isn't that a cop out?

      March 31, 2013 at 12:01 am |
    • Mark

      @Chad
      "How are you demonstrating that the God of Israel does not exist?"
      For the God of Israel to exist no other creator god can exist. So, if you believe that God exists then we can ask you what proof you have that no other creator god does.

      March 31, 2013 at 12:15 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Mark,

      How Chad answered this the last 40 or 50 times he was asked was basically "I don't need to, because I've already proved the god of Israel exists and that means the others don't."

      Yes, really.

      March 31, 2013 at 12:18 am |
  12. Bostontola

    Open minded ness towards gays is a start, good for them. I hope they start to question dogma and explore the full world of knowledge.

    March 30, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: so you want to replace their dogma with your dogma?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • Edweird69

      What an asinine statement! As if all gay people have never contemplated dogma. As if, everyone would come to the same conclusion as you, because you have found all the answers. Horse hockey!

      March 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • Bostontola

      What is my dogma and how could I impose it? I am not associated with that school or any other. What did you mean to say?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: you clearly have a standard by which you are judging them. What is the basis for that standard?
      Or as I put it before: why is your dogma better than theirs?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • Bostontola

      No, you said replace. No dogma here, just a skeptic who questions everything.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:32 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Now is the time when Russ decides everyone must discuss the metaphysical and enumerate all his/her reasons for thinking whatever it is he/she thinks about all things.

      Yawn.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: are you consistent with your skepticism? do you turn that lens on yourself?

      @ 'real' Tom: why avoid getting to the root of discussions? do you prefer being surface?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I'd prefer not to read your blather, Russ, since all of it is pretty much about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Therefore, I just ignore your spew.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:37 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Russ, all the time. Why is that so hard to imagine? I learn every day. Questioning accelerates the process.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:37 pm |
    • Russ

      @ 'real' Tom: again, staying on the surface is not a good way to have a substantive interaction.
      so why did you come here... to the 'belief' blog... if not to actually discuss substantive matters with people with whom you disagree?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: so now I need you to clarify.
      if you are skeptical of everything, including yourself (& your own assumptions?), where does this confidence come from that assures you that evangelicals are wrong?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Russ,
      I am not looking for proof, it is not there. Evangelicals are wrong about evolution as an example. They deny it's existence when it is a directly observable phenomenon. I question the theories of evolution all the time but the underlying phenomenon. It ' s no different than gravity, the phenomenon is observable but the theories need to be questioned.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Russ bleats: @ 'real' Tom: again, staying on the surface is not a good way to have a substantive interaction.
      so why did you come here... to the 'belief' blog... if not to actually discuss substantive matters with people with whom you disagree?"

      I've told you and everyone else before: to ridicule the religious tards who think they "know" the answer to all mysteries and claim they can prove a god exists.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "to have a substantive interaction."

      Why would I want to have anything of the sort with people for whom I haven't an ounce of respect?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: evolution is a term that is often equivocated. what do you mean by it?

      here's one well-known evangelical who is articulating a biblical path forward on this issue...
      (in other words, who doesn't see a necessary contradiction here between the Bible and science)

      http://biologos.org/uploads/projects/Keller_white_paper.pdf

      March 30, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations by mutation and selection.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Russ, I also don't have any issue with an evangelical that comports evolution with their beliefs, its the many that want to deny evolution and insert intelligent design into science classes.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: do you assert that the principles underlying science & evolution are necessarily unintelligent?

      What do you make of Plantinga's evolutionary argument against naturalism?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_argument_against_naturalism

      March 30, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • Bostontola

      I assert that the scientific evidence is consistent with no intelligent intervention or design, and there are many examples showing evolved structure is poorly designed.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: so are you familiar with Plantinga's argument? it would seem to be directly contrary to your position.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Russ, thanks for the link, I had forgotten about this interesting argument. I ran into this a few years ago. It is more philosophy than science (not a bad thing), so I personally don't follow it very well. I feel he makes some leaps that are hard to connect but I can't prove it.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
  13. The real Tom

    These little teenyboppers like Cornwhole and Gave Them Up are beyond laughable.

    It's sad when the outcasts rely on this site for affirmation.

    March 30, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • Edweird69

      They get their jollies out of their "feeble" attempts to hurt others. Sadly, when teenagers read hateful remarks, they take it to heart, and we know what the outcome of that is...sometimes. So, people like that are active participants in the death of young people.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Oh? Then why do YOU do so, ya fvcktard?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Ed, dumbfvck kids like GTU are a dime a dozen. He's some bored little pr!ck who can't get anyone to talk to him in real life. This is all he has.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • The real Tom

      GTU used to go by lol?? and probably got kicked off here by CNN for being an azzwipe.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • The real Tom

      The only one "slipping" here is you-on your own excrement.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • Edweird69

      Agreed ! the type of little coward who likes to attempt to be a bully, but is also a failure at that...because their entire life is a failure. Usually closet cases.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
    • The real Tom

      GTU is a bored little kid who has no friends and loves being a sh!t here. It's the only place he has any sense of empowerment. Poor little guy.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
  14. Bostontola

    Do they teach evolution at evangelical colleges?

    March 30, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • The real Tom

      What??? There's something the troll "doesn't know"????

      I think hell just froze over.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Edweird69

      I think Satan's making a snowman... look who just admitted they "don't know it all".

      March 30, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Bull. Harvard was never anything of the sort, you numbskull.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • Bostontola

      RealTom, does your god teach you to insult people who ask questions or do you simply choose to defy your god's teachings?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
    • Edweird69

      GTU – you just blew any credibility you never had.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
    • The real Tom

      As I've said before, honey, bite me if you don't like what I write. I'm not a believer.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
    • The real Tom

      And for you, Bostontola, apparently you are incapable of figuring out who a reply is directed to. Unless you're a troll, my response wasn't intended for you.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Harvard, like MANY universities, was founded by a minister. Only an idiot would assume that makes it evangelical.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • Bostontola

      RealTom, simple mistake, why so defensive?

      March 30, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "but Aristotle is lesser known than Jesus."

      Truly the great tragedy of human existence.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I'm sick of the idiots on here, that's why. I'm sorry that you mistook my response as being intended for you.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Oh, get bent, lollypoop. You think communists are hiding in your closet. Too bad you're already in there–no room for anyone else.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
    • The real Tom

      No, it hit home all right. Otherwise, you'd have ignored it, you stupid twerp.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Here's a discussion on the "science" taught at Wheaton:

      http://scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2010/02/08/evolution-at-wheaton/

      I don't know about others, but I'd be looking very carefully at any resume from a graduate of a place like this.

      March 30, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
  15. GodFreeNow

    This is nothing new... In the 40 years of experience in and out of the church they have been consistent about one thing. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." As a baptist I remembered hearing about how Catholics were tools of the devil and the Pope was the anti-christ. But as soon as it became politically expedient to join them, the baptists let go of their inhibitions. The same thing is true about the Mormons for the last election. When I was young, I was constantly lectured about interracial relationships and about being "unequally yoked together." Now I have a Ja.panese wife and when I mention it to my still religious parents, they pretend as though it never happened. I actually have an ultra-religious gay friend who married his male partner and you should hear how they skirt around the words of the bible to justify themselves in the eyes of a god they are still enslaved to. Rather than feeling cynical about this, I find great hope in it. It shows me that Christians and other religions are quite capable seeing and grasping reality—even if they are slower about it.

    Next stop: letting go of the idea the the earth is less than 10k years old.

    If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

    March 30, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Yup. Anything to get asses in the pews and $$ in the collection plate.

      March 30, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
  16. ghhh

    ghhh
    God did not create sin. God is the remedy for your sin that you lie about being a birth right. Resurrection power is freedom from sin. Do you reject this for habitual sin? You worship yourself as God and exalt sin.

    ho.mose.xuals are no different than people who sit around and mas.turbate. You get off in a demented, sinful, perverted way. This is baal worship.

    March 30, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
    • Edweird69

      Get help! You are warped... I mean really. I don't say that very often.

      March 30, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
    • Akira

      There are over 139 mammals observed in nature to exhibit gay behavior. Domestic dogs, cats, hamsters, goats and guinea pigs are some.
      Watch your pets! They've caught gay!
      Giraffes have exhibited gay behavior more often than hetero behavior. Uh oh.
      Educate yourself.

      March 30, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • The real Tom

      What? Is that how you learned about s3x, GTU? Figures. No wonder you're so het up about doggie style.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
    • Akira

      No, GIU, just explaining to obviously uneducated people that being gay exists, naturally, everywhere. Glad you bit.
      Why did God make them gay?

      And I'm female; everyone here except you is aware of that fact.

      Embrace *your* androgeny, Pat.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:01 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Geez, Akira, how stupid IS this git?

      March 30, 2013 at 8:02 pm |
    • Akira

      Willfully ignorant isn't pretty, Tom.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • Akira

      Give It Up:
      Nice try.
      I'm straight, married, and have three children, two of whom are still living.

      You, on the other hand, are a racist bigot, cloaked in false piety, who hides behind the Bible, used to reinforce your hatred of whole groups of people who you cannot hold a candle to.
      In other words, the kind of person who gives Christians a bad name, and why so many people abhor people like you who uses religion to try and quash people's rights.

      And even if I *were* gay, so?
      Isn't time for your Klan meeting?

      March 30, 2013 at 9:07 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Apparently, Give a Crap is just off its meds again.

      Loser.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:10 pm |
    • hee hee

      somebody's not getting any at home.

      April 2, 2013 at 9:42 am |
  17. DJ

    Although I've been a Christian for 20+ years, I have to say that the anti-gay rhetoric (here and in the news lately) doesn't agree with what I've experienced in Church or read in the Bible. I think we've forgotten that Jesus commands us to love, and "let him who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm not soft-selling what the Bible says (its pretty clear what is calls sin) – but I have plenty of sin myself. I hope folks can plug into a good church that teaches the Bible as it reads, and also show love and compassion.

    March 30, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
  18. frederick schmid

    God didn't create man; man created God.

    March 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • sensible

      Yes, plenty of them at that. It's so obvious. Of course all them are fake besides the ones that a particular group believes in.

      March 30, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
  19. ROCKWOOD

    ......I've never understood the book of Job...... (G)od and satan make a bet......on a man.....the man loses everything he tirelessly worked for, in the end (G)od wins......and although he's lost his sons, his wife, his financial security, and probably still has pustules all over his body, Job is happy too?.....um.....yeah. Although I do believe in God, I don't believe the Bible as it exists today.......it's one jacked up book of supposed instruction......

    March 30, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • sensible

      So you think how it may have existed (bible) in the past would change how you view that story book??

      March 30, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • A Conversation

      So you believe in a god who is (a) not loving enough to tell us exactly what he expects or (b) is incapable of doing so? BTW, the Book of Job ends on a high note for Job–I question whether you've actually read the story.

      April 1, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
  20. raeder10

    He came out as gay to find another gay to screw.

    March 30, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • smitvict

      And how many "come out" as straight to find another straight to screw?

      March 30, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • Cornwhole Brown

      If they come out straight , atleast they dont have sh.it on their di.ck.

      feces, poop, shi/t , rectum, intestine , colon, out door, excrement, ............not a se.x organ

      March 30, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • The real Tom

      You are far more knowledgable about gay s3x than most people, Corny. And far more fascinated. Why is that?

      March 30, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • Cornwhole Brown

      what does it smell like tom tom? do you condone that?

      March 30, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
    • Edweird69

      @Cornwhole – it smells like your breath. Any more questions?

      March 30, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Corny, why are you so interested in the smell? Why don't you go find out for yourself if you're so curious?

      Really, what are you-12? Grow up.

      March 30, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
    • Cornwhole Brown

      I take a crap every day. I think I know how stupid some perverts can be.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:52 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "I think I know how stupid some perverts can be."

      Everyone who reads your posts knows, too, honey. Keep gettin' off smelling your fingers after you go.

      March 30, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • Got Your Number

      Put that mirror away already, cornwhole, quit smelling your fingers in your outhouse and get rid of those nasty corncobs and grow up already! No wonder your corncob is brown!

      March 30, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.