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April 18th, 2013
10:45 AM ET

My Take: Godless in Boston mourn, too

Editor’s note: Greg M. Epstein is the Humanist chaplain at Harvard University and author of the New York Times best-seller "Good Without God." He directs the Humanist Community Project, a national think tank helping to study and build communities for the nonreligious.

By Greg M. Epstein, Special to CNN

Cambridge, Massachusetts (CNN) — After two days of holding back my own feelings to focus on the needs of a community in mourning, what finally split my heart in two was scrolling through the list of donations to the fund-raising page for Celeste and Sydney Corcoran, a mother and daughter among the tragically injured at the Boston Marathon.

Celeste, the mother, has volunteered for my congregation. She’s basically an aunt to a senior member of our staff. So I cried for the two-sidedness: A member of our community lost her legs below the knees, and nearly lost her daughter. And, in one day, nearly 4,000 people donated more than $250,000 to support them. They seemed to be saying, through their gifts, “Please do this for me too if anything should ever happen to me or my family.”

AC360: Mother lost legs, daughter nearly died in bombing

As a chaplain, I’m struggling to make sense of this tragedy just like any other member of the clergy. And like faith communities across the country, the thousands of people I work with are doing what needs to be done when tragedy strikes close to home. We’re offering one another comfort. We’re calling around to the point of exhaustion, trying to figure out who needs help and how we can provide it.

The only difference is, we are a community of atheists — a congregation of Humanists.

You’ve probably read the statistics: With 18% of the nation’s population now nonreligious, America is less religious today than ever before. This especially applies to young Americans, up to a third of whom now have no religion. That number may be closer to half on many of the college campuses throughout Boston, like the one where I work.

What you may not have noticed, however, is that in addition to the religiously unaffiliated, or “nones” as sociologists have taken to calling them, a new and very significant group of Americans has been emerging — the nonreligiously affiliated. Relatively quietly, many thousands of mostly young Americans who identify as atheists and agnostics have been coming together to form civically active, thoughtful secular community groups that now dot nearly our whole nation.

Sometimes you hear about the debates these groups hold with religious leaders. But while Richard Dawkins and the like are eloquent and controversial speakers on behalf of atheism, most such debates are actually organized by religious organizations. The vast majority of what Humanist and secular communities do is positive, uncontroversial and entirely American. We serve. We meet throughout the year. We help one another raise good kids. We celebrate life, and we grieve death.

So I don’t relish the opportunity — or the need — to say that right now, our community is grieving too, just like any other Boston-area congregation. Boston, in fact, is home to one of the biggest secular/Humanist/atheist/nonreligious communities in the world. (Sure, we don’t know what to call ourselves. But then again neither does the LGBT — or is it GLBT? — or LGBTQ? — community, and that hasn’t stopped them from thriving.) We meet every week. We’re getting ready to open up a large community center. We sponsor service programs where we invite interfaith groups to help us package thousands of meals for hungry kids. You can even join us this Sunday: We’ll be marking our losses together in a memorial gathering.

What is so disappointing to see people do, then, is blame the horrific and traumatizing events of this Monday on the godless, or on godlessness, as way too many on Twitter and elsewhere have been doing. As one young woman in our community said to me, “It’s hard enough to deal with senseless grief, but when people write things like 'Why do people have to be so godless to want to kill innocent people?' it makes me feel like I’m not safe either, like we’re being singled out for prejudice.”

Obviously when people say “I’ll pray for you” or “May God grant you strength,” they’re only expressing their own sincere convictions. But while not everyone holds those same beliefs, we all want to be acknowledged in a way that feels right to us.

And when political leaders like Gov. Deval Patrick or President Obama try to make sense of these moments by assembling interfaith services, it is admirable — far better for a politician to bring different religions together than to only recognize one religion’s view of loss as valid. But for goodness' sake, must the nonreligious continue to be excluded from such gatherings? I’ve seen Humanists knock on the door recently at the interfaith celebrations of political conventions, or after tragedies like Hurricane Sandy or Newtown. We wanted to help and were turned away. I hope this is where people realize: We are part of the community too. We care and want to offer our support just as much as anyone. We, too, are in shock and grief.

Secular people place our faith in the human ability to value life over death. We believe in committing ourselves to love and care and help as indiscriminately as possible, because that is what makes our lives worthwhile. We try our best, despite our doubt, to ensure that the good will that comes from tragedy will ultimately exceed the bad.

All that said, I don’t have a clue what Celeste’s beliefs are, and I don’t care. I just hope she and Sydney and everyone else injured get well. After all, would you believe for a second that every Christian pastor knows whether or not every visitor to his or her congregation truly believes in the Ascension? Nor should they. The point of a congregation, to me, is just to care about the people in it, and better yet, to help bring people together to care about one another. Our community is including everyone, religious or not, in our thoughts and hopes at this tough time. It would mean a lot to us if others do the same.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (3,411 Responses)
  1. faith

    i never thought of that! how could i miss something that important to my faith? by golly, the nazi god worshipers are right.

    no one wrote the new testament. it has no authenticity. no signs of human influence in any fashion whatsoever. no proof it wasn't written by santa claus or the easter bunny or fsm. how could i have been so blind, so completely duped? makes me realize i never bothered to read the thing. who knows if it uses language? who knows it it exists? who knows if it was produced by nazi god-haters knowing dumb xtins would buy it? who knows, maybe satan or dodo put it here to make fun of us. there is no verifiable evidence it wasn't created on 4/27/1813. no one can say for sure. heck, the mormons bought forged writings of big joe and paid millions. i am beginning to think these filthy, disgusting, stupid, immoral, reprobates, these hilarious heathen, and pudgy pagan nazi god-hating, jew hating demon possessed punks are on to somethin BIG

    alright dodo, we give. who wrote it?

    April 21, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
  2. faith

    Dear dr. greg m epstein, utilizing ghost writing is not the way to try to build your career. using dodo to express silly, redundant, pathetic, useless, pity-me contrived nonsense in your name will ruin you faster than anything more than likely. just to prove you my point, list those tragic occasions when your help was refused, including the names of your abusers and the dates.

    "But for goodness' sake, must the nonreligious continue to be excluded from such gatherings? I’ve seen Humanists knock on the door recently at the interfaith celebrations of political conventions, or after tragedies like Hurricane Sandy or Newtown. We wanted to help and were turned away."

    April 21, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • faith

      " I’ve seen Humanists knock on the door recently at the interfaith celebrations of political conventions, or after tragedies like Hurricane Sandy or Newtown. We wanted to help and were turned away." the epie

      i don't know how i do it quite honestly. it is a gift. i can't take credit for these unbelievable predictions. although, i should add, only complete Nazi idiots wouldn't hang on my every word

      April 22, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
  3. faith

    dodo, i think you make a lot of sense. "The real Tom
    So, faith, you think your posts here exemplify your belief.
    Wow. You must speak a different brand of English than everyone else, then." really, i do.

    sambo, my first love, dorothy is concerned about your soul here honey. she wants you to straighten up and fly right. do you think you could manage to clean up your act for the sake of scripture, huh? is that too much to ask for dodo? she is a bible thumper and don't like juvenile epitaphs, u stupid fvcktard

    April 21, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • The real Tom

      You should join Austin over in the mental ward, sweetcheeks. The nice men there have a lovely jacket for you. It's white; a bit long in the sleeves, but you'll get used to it.

      April 21, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
    • Akira

      Faith says,
      "sambo, my first love, dorothy is concerned about your soul here honey. she wants you to straighten up and fly right. do you think you could manage to clean up your act for the sake of scripture, huh? is that too much to ask for dodo? she is a bible thumper and don’t like juvenile epitaphs, u stupid fvcktard."

      What?

      April 21, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
  4. faith

    "Observer
    faith,
    Your continuous display that you have zero regard for the Golden Rule shows world-class HYPOCRISY. Keep up the good work. You are just justifying the image of many Christians who preach but don't follow the Bible. Well done." aww, shucks

    faith
    "Observer
    faith,
    Your continual juvenile name-calling and insults show you don't follow the Golden Rule which is "what the law and the prophets are all about" according the BIBLE. Read it someday."

    dogdo, do u want me to call satan and inform him of your behavior? "the golden rule" u said, is that correct? hold it roght there babe. r u delusional, insane, retarded, dependent on an invisible sky daddy, pathetic and absurd? god's word is something u believe should be incorporated into one's life style?

    SATAN, OH SPLIT-HOOF! CALLING THE DEVIL. YO PRINCE OF DARKNESS! YOU'VE GOT A RUNAWAY DEMON
    OVER HERE

    i guess she do. dottie loves the bible! satan, o satan. did u see this this?

    April 21, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • biggles

      Many? How many is many?
      You are grateful many don't read the bible?
      Hypocrite, you say? You seem saddened.

      April 21, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • biggles

      "Keep up the good work" thanks Dorothy. Maybe u should consider a career in dog sitting? Flexible hours, lots a free time. U can worship the Nazi god.

      Love, yours always

      April 21, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
  5. clarity

    God is real. I believe in him. Jesus is the answer. God bless you all.

    April 21, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • *

      Didn't the "Holy Spirit" tell you that we already have a frequent poster named "clarity" here (and she has a quite opposite view from yours)? Stupid god...

      April 21, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • ME II

      People are real, let's get along as best we can.

      Peace

      April 21, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • clarity

      Ah the Xtian name-stealers are at it again I see.

      April 21, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
  6. lol??

    The comforts of arguing evolution! Old familiar territory.

    April 21, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • lol??

      HHHhhmmm, one comment for each side of yer brain. Comfortable.

      April 21, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Akira

      Lol.

      April 21, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Science

      Was the bible around back then ?...............do you have one lol??........... a Y ?

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

      Peace

      April 21, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Science

      And you have seen this lol??.

      Unusual Anal Fin Offers New Insight Into Evolution

      Apr. 10, 2013 — An unusual fossil fish that has fins behind its anus

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130410082201.htm

      April 21, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
  7. lol??

    The comforts of arguing evolution! Old familiar territory.

    April 21, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
  8. Mocking Bird

    Chad, If a cave does not have a body in it why would anyone call it a tomb?
    Guys would it not be better to just mock the Chad or ask it equally stupid questions?
    Of course we could concentrate on Rachel and the thigh gap and why his feminine side tends to support the LBGT movement while he is a ho-mophobe. Schizophrenia is probably why his family has rejected him.

    April 21, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Hey!!! Look at that puddle without any water in it!! It's a miracle!! I mean, what happened to the water that used to be in there?!?!?!

      Ummm... I think that's just a hole.

      No, no!! It's a miracle!! We have proof!! There's no water in that puddle!! Praise the FSM!!!

      I still think it's just a hole and there's no miracle involved.

      HERETIC!!

      April 21, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Saraswati

      I've actually wondered the same thing, whether the only way for Chad to learn anything would be to be treated exactly the way he treats others. I often find that people who have antisocial behaviors really have no idea how offensive those behaviors are because their behavior is so out of the norm that they rarely encounter anyone who exhibits the same behavior problems they have. It's just possible that despite realizing that he is being manipulative (I don't think he can be unaware of that) that he is unaware of just how extreme and antisocial the behavior is. I don't think it would be easy in a fluid environment like this, but if people only ever responded to him with the same sort of inane, irrelevant questions he asks and then kept insisting they be answered he might just change his behavior. I still doubt he would really learn, but most of us would go for an improvement in behavior.

      I don't think he has schizophrenia. I would be hesitant to attribute a particular mental illness, but Chad does show signs of one of the most extreme cases of confirmation bias I've ever seen. He may actually not be able to function without the unusually high level of certainty we see him expressing about all things.

      April 21, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
  9. Chad

    @ME II "What historicity of the empty tomb? There is no historical evidence of an empty tomb outside of the Bible."

    @Chad "many atheists on this board make the mistake of attempting to exclude [the bible] from consideration at all. No credible historian anywhere would agree with such a nonsensical approach. [even atheists recognize that the bible is a compilation of separately authored ancient texts]
    [by stating that the there is no historical evidence for the empty tomb] you are claiming that the bible isn’t valid [as a source of historical information]"”

    @ME II “I did no such thing.”... I simply said that the Bible is a valid docu.ment, not that it's history is accurate, nor its authenticity certain.

    @Chad ". if a doc is inaccurate, it is not a valid historical doc."

    @Saraswati "Validity in this context (history or science rather than logic) refers to whether a tool accurately measures what it is intended to measure. If one person wants to use the Bible to measure or assess the reality of Christ as god validity is based on that if another wants to use it to measure the cultural norms of the time it can be used for that and validity would be measured in that context. It is perfectly reasonable for people to consider it a valid tool for assessing one thing and not another."

    @Chad "A. One cant pick and choose what one wants to consider accurate accounts of history without a reason
    B. The ONLY reason you have for discounting as historical the account of the empty tomb, is that you dont want to have to come up with an explanation of why it was empty.
    C. There are ZERO accounts that the tomb wasnt empty (that it was occupied)
    D. There are multiple biblical and extra-biblical accounts of the empty tomb
    E. Additionally, the ONLY reason you have for discounting the miracles in the bible, is your personal commitment to naturalism. It is not based on any historical analysis.
    F. You can't substantiate your commitment to naturalism, indeed when pressed you are forced to admit that the supernatural must be considered in the pool of live options as a possible explanation.

    In summary: you have absolutely no historical basis for accepting some of the biblical/extra-biblical accounts as real, and not others; your commitment to naturalism is a demonstrated bias on your part; which yields, as demonstrated, an inconsistent/incoherent position.

    QED

    April 21, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Do you have ANY corroborating evidence that the "empty tomb" existed? If the bible is your ONLY source, Chard, there is no reason to believe that any such tomb existed.

      You can continue to scroll through your little rolodex and yap on about objective morals, the historicity of the empty tomb, and all your other fav topics. You can keep posting the same copied and pasted responses, but it won't make a shred of difference because you aren't a trustworthy or persuasive poster. You are off-putting and pompous, a blowhard and a windbag. Like those of Reality, your posts simply have no effect on people other than to turn them off.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • ME II

      (reposted from earlier page)

      @Chad,
      “both of your statements are incorrect."

      A. Yes, obviously when talking about evolution, I was referring to the fossil record or the fossils in the geologic record, if you are making such a distinction. I'm not saying that evolution explains geology.

      "it is utterly impossible to think that the sequence of events that must occur for stasis to be interrupted by rapid chance[sic], could occur."

      I'm assuming you mean that it is "utterly impossible" for evolution, i.e. the modern theory of evolution, to explain such events. On what basis do you think that?

      B. 'Atheism' doesn't speak to the origin of the universe. nor actually to evolution. It is a single negative position, i.e. a lack of belief in god(s), in most usages.

      "...as deterministic processes begin executing,..."

      Is this referring to evolution, the modern synthesis? I don't think Evolution is deterministic in the sense that it is predictable. I'm still not sure what you are trying to say with the "pure chance" statement since no one is claiming that "pure chance" produced the diversity life we see, once life began.

      ===========
      "C. if a doc is inaccurate, it is not a valid historical doc."

      I didn't intend to be confusing, I was simply stating that the Bible is "valid" as a historical doc., not that it's history was entirely accurate.
      If that is the definition being used, then I disagree that the Bible is "valid" in that sense. As I've stated before there are many cases where the Bible is historically inaccurate. There are cases where it is accurate as well, but that does not make the entire Bible "valid" in the accuracy sense.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Akira

      Chad, do you think it's possible to answer ME II's question without inserting your opinion of what you think atheists's think?

      Please give us the historicity of the tomb, which you claim, without using the Bible, as asked.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I love you Chad. Were you broken in as an altar boy Chad?

      April 21, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      So there's ZERO evidence of any miracle, ever, but because they're written about in a book we're supposed to believe in them? LOL!!

      It's like you're asking us to believe in unicorns AND that they sing well because the story is in a book when we've not got the slightest proofs of unicorns at all.

      The stupidity of your "arguments" for your god amazes me. Please keep posting!!!

      April 21, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "The ONLY reason you have for discounting as historical the account of the empty tomb, is that you dont want to have to come up with an explanation of why it was empty."

      I can't speak for others and I'm not a scholar of the Bible, but as I understand it there is no consensus from historians (all kinds, not just Biblical) about the historicity of the empty tomb like there is one the Baptism and crucifixion. I don't know. Additionally, Paul does not mention an empty tomb, which seems odd to me anyway. I'm not saying this is convincing, but I am saying that there are some reasons other than the one you mentioned.

      April 21, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Saraswati

      lol...chad once again either failed reading comprehension or thought no one would notice if he responded to something other than what I said. Way to be consistent Chad!

      April 21, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Miracles

      Jesus keeps his money in the Bank of Omaha
      Jesus keeps his money in the Bank of Omaha
      Jesus keeps his money in the Bank of Omaha
      Jesus saves Jesus saves Jesus saves

      Jesus buys domestic wine not the imported brands
      Jesus buys domestic wine not the imported brands
      Jesus buys domestic mine not the imported brands
      Jesus saves Jesus saves Jesus saves

      Jesus walks the water he's the lifeguard at our pool
      Jesus walks the water he's the lifeguard at our pool
      Jesus walks the water he's the lifeguard at our pool
      Jesus saves Jesus saves Jesus saves

      Glory Glory hallelujah
      Glory Glory hallelujah
      Glory Glory hallelujah
      Jesus saves Jesus saves Jesus saves

      Supernatural has been observed where Chad besides written in books of fiction? Entangled particles break classical law of thermodynamics, miracle or just science? Scary stuff for a Chad believer.

      April 21, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Church Lady

      I have to laugh at Chad's use of QED, as if he actually *proved* something...disingenuous.

      April 21, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Chad

      @Akira "Please give us the historicity of the tomb, which you claim, without using the Bible, as asked."
      @Chad "A. The bible is actually a collection of many different authors and it is of course irrational to say that since those ancient docs were later collected as the New Testament that they can not be examined for historical accuracy.
      We have Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Jude, James, that's EIGHT different corroborating accounts, SIX of which were eye witnesses. That kind of corroboration of ancient history is simply unprecedented.
      Unprecedented

      What is your basis for not allowing any of that to be taken into account? By what staggering demonstration of bias could you possibly do such a thing?

      B. Extra-biblical accounts of the empty tomb
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel#Non-canonical_gospels:
      -Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Nicodemus (also called the "Acts of Pilate"), Pseudo-Cyril of Jerusalem on the Life and the Passion of Christ, Gospel of Bartholomew, Questions of Bartholomew, Resurrection of Jesus Christ (which claims to be according to Bartholomew)

      --
      Now, I know the objection 🙂
      "well, you cant count those!! they were written by Christians!!"

      leading me to reply, "oh, so your criteria then isnt just "well, you cant count anything written that was later included in the bible, but you ALSO cant count anything written by a Christian? Is that your criteria?"

      so, just to help you out and cutting to the chase, here is the atheist criteria you always end up with, do you think it is reasonable?

      Atheist requirements concerning ancient historical writings
      1. The account must be written at the exact same time the events being recorded occurred, not at a later date no matter how proximate it was. The 20 years from Jesus death to Paul's first letters is deemed entirely unacceptable as is the accepted definition of “contemporary account: an account written by a contemporary” which is rejected.

      2 The account must be written by a person who was an enemy of the person whose activity is being recorded, (non-sympathetic). Sympathy to the subject entirely taints the doc to the point that it is entirely worthless.

      3. The account must be authored by a direct witness of the events.

      4. The person or event being recorded must not be that of a "religious figure". For those persons/events there simply is no acceptable evidence since atheists already know before even looking at the doc that it is false by definition.

      5. The original manuscript (the actual originally authored doc) must have survived to the present day. Dating of ancient docs to a time period prior to extant manuscripts is rejected.

      It is worth enumerating them to show the irrationality of the atheist position. To avoid dealing with the actual content of the Old/New Testament docs, the atheist is forced to reject ALL of the rules that all historians use when examining and assessing the reliability of ancient docs.

      There is no credible historian on this earth that would apply those criteria to all ancient docs.
      NONE.

      Atheism forces the holder to abandon rationality to avoid looking at reality.

      April 21, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "I can't speak for others and I'm not a scholar of the Bible, but as I understand it there is no consensus from historians (all kinds, not just Biblical) about the historicity of the empty tomb like there is one the Baptism and crucifixion.
      @Chad "Certainly there are more scholars that agree that baptism and crucifixion occur as that is safer, however there is indeed a consensus that the tomb was found empty
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_tomb#Historicity
      http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-historicity-of-the-empty-tomb-of-jesus

      ====
      @ME II "Paul does not mention an empty tomb, which seems odd to me anyway"
      @Chad "Paul DOES reference the empty tomb, He died and was raised.:
      For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
      1 Corinthians

      April 21, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Saraswati

      This one's kind of a classic. Chad's definitely going with #19 in full bloom. It's kind of hard to say on #2, since he's so inaccurate. It's more like a mix of #2 and #3 mixed with #11. We are of course looking at #s 12, 14, 15 and 16. Numbers 10 and 22 are always present so it's hardly worth mentioning them.

      ===============================

      Gospel of Chad:
      (Updated list derived from history of Chad conversations.)

      Atheism:
      1. All atheists agree with everything Stephen Hawking or Richard Dawkins say, even if it is unrelated to atheism. Hawking and Dawkins disagree on free will, however, but you should ignore this conflict or any atheist who says they disagree.
      2. All atheists agree with one another on everything even if it has nothing to do with atheism. See #1 for models from which you can derive all their beliefs.
      3. The definition of atheist includes anything that any atheist I disagree with believes or anything I feel like tossing in there. Ignore any definitions in pesky places like dictionaries and philosophical encyclopedias.
      4. If one atheist somewhere on the internet said something, then, since all atheists agree with him/her, I can use that randomly selected example as an argument to address all other atheists.
      5. The definition of atheism includes not just materialism but strict deterministic materialism. Non-believers who might be Buddhists, believe in probabilistic physics, see consciousness as prior to the physical world, believe in, say, witchcraft aren’t really atheists.

      Free will:
      6. All people who use the term “free will” really mean the same exact thing by that term, which matches my personal use of the term “free will” (unless backed into a corner, then I just declare all other meanings irrelevant)
      7. Fatalism and determinism are the same thing. It has been pointed out to me that historically these terms have been used with different meanings, but I find it more convenient to make up my own definitions, as with atheism and free will.

      In fact, I brilliantly argued “If a person is a determinist, how in the world does deterrence even come into the picture? Determinists believe in an ever marching set of deterministic outcomes based on an existing set of antecedent conditions. Those conditions march back to the origin of the universe, no way to change the past, so no way to change the future. (On April 17, 2013 at 6:20 pm)

      After reading a bit more about fatalism and determinism I decided to change my tune to a claim that determinism leads to fatalism (and to pretend this was what I was saying all along). I’m sticking to reading easy pop philosophers, though, and selective websites on the topic as anything more complex makes my head hurt. I have read snippets from a couple of websites now so that ought to put me on par with people who’ve read dozens of books on the topic, understand neurobiology and have written on both the philosophical and cultural aspects of free will and people’s belief in the topic. Oh, yeah, I know what I’m talking about!

      8. A determinist cannot believe that humans can change. This would, of course, mean that nothing can change. Which would mean…oh…crud…better put my head back up my ass.
      9. A determinist cannot believe in punishing people for crimes. This is because…well…it doesn’t matter. Just keep repeating it.

      Telling lies:
      10. It is ethical to lie so long as it promotes Christian beliefs.
      11. Speaking of telling lies, a really good way to do this is to rephrase what your opponent says and then keep repeating the misquote in hopes that he or she will get bored and leave your lie as the last statement. Then you win. You can do this either by rewording as a supposed paraphrase or pulling lines out of context and reordering them. God really loves this and gives you extra endurance to sit at the computer all day and keep repeating it.
      12. One way to use this super endurance to your advantage is to keep posting the same questions over and over again even after they’ve been answered 50 times. Just pretend they haven’t been answered and act self-righteous about it. It’s really cool if you can ask this same thing on multiple threads and then claim it was never answered forcing people to waste time on the same thing over and over and over.
      13. In particular don’t forget that whatever someone says you can respond with “What investigation have you done into…”. Especially good is to ask what investigation was done into the truth of the God of Israel. When the non-Christian comes back to ask how much research you did to prove other gods aren’t real answer “I don’t need to do any because I proved the God of Israel is real and that negates all other gods”. When asked how you proved that repeat the words “empty tomb” over and over until divine light shines on the souls of the heathens.
      14. When they refuse to play your game or you don’t like the answer add some sarcasm, but use an emoticon to soften it so they’ll know your snide remarks are all in good fun.
      15. Consider asking completely nonsensical questions that can’t even be understood, let alone answered. Best yet include something the person didn’t say as a premise. For example, you might ask an atheist opponent “You say you like murdering small children on Wednesdays, could you explain how this fits with your beliefs about string theory?” Then when your question is ignored accuse the person of avoidance and make up wild hypotheses as to why they are avoiding you.
      16. Above all else keep asking questions while avoiding answering any yourself.

      Science, math and psychology:
      17. If one scientist says something that backs me, then I can assume all scientists agree with that statement.
      18. If atheist scientists say something, even if it is the view of the majority of people in that science, it should be ignored. See #10.
      19. Atheists are ruled by confirmation bias. I am free of it – it’s just great luck that everything I read and all the “data” around me confirm my strong religious convictions. See #18 on ignoring anything else.
      20. Infinity = all finite numbers according to the Chad. Thirty or forty years of constraint is the same as eternal torment.
      21. Rehabilitation and deterrence are the same thing. Yep…convincing a drug addict not to use drugs in case they are shot dead and getting them off the addiction would be the same by my wondrous Chad logic.

      General truths about the CNN belief blog:
      22. All non-believers are, by definition, idiots so you can use illogical arguments and they’ll just fall for it.
      23. If I post a quote that has a few key words in it from our discussion I can claim it backs my point even if it actually says the exact opposite thing from what I’m claiming. Atheists, as mentioned above, are too dumb to notice. Best yet is to post a link or reference a book which actually says the opposite of what I’m saying and just assume no one will look at it.
      24. There is a huge mass of fence sitters out there who are eagerly reading CNN blog comments in order to decide whether or not to believe in God.
      25. I will personally save all those mentioned in # 24 because I, Chad, am super smart. I know this because I get away with all the above mentioned lies and manipulations. Sometimes people think they are pointing these things out but they really aren’t. Or the stupid atheist masses aren’t reading them anyway.
      26. Phrase everything as if it’s a lecture so you look like you know what you’re talking about. See #22 about atheists being idiots and #23 about people not reading anything you post you’ll see that the silly atheists will fall for it every time. In particular they won’t look back to the earlier part of the discussion to see how I’m contradicting myself. This is very well aided by another tactic:
      27. As soon as you make an ass of yourself break the conversation into a new thread. That way all the newcomers (see #24 on how they are waiting to have their souls saved) will not bother to read back and see how ignorant you are.
      28. If someone points out to you that citing Wikipedia is not an adequate source for the discussion at hand you can always find a good undergraduate philosophy paper to cite instead.
      29. Never question another Christian no matter how incorrect or offensive their position.
      30. Just remember that you can define a term any way you want and you are always right!

      April 21, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
    • Science

      Chad and rachel doing the twist................................. funny stuff !

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/16/my-take-light-will-conquer-darkness-in-boston/comment-page-5/?replytocom=2293191#respond

      April 21, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Chard, then you admit you have no historical accounts that corroborate the bible written by anyone not a disciple?

      Thanks. You have no proof except the bible that any such "empty tomb" ever existed.

      April 21, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "however there is indeed a consensus that the tomb was found empty"

      Your links both refer to William Lane Craig's analysis, not a consensus.

      "Paul DOES reference the empty tomb, He died and was raised."
      "...that he was buried, that he was raised..."

      Paul claims, but did not witness, that Jesus was buried and then "raised". Nowhere does he claim that an "empty tomb" was discovered.

      "We have Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Jude, James, that's EIGHT different corroborating accounts, SIX of which were eye witnesses."

      These are not all accounts of an "empty tomb". Peter for example, if I remember correctly, simply mentions "the resurrection of Jesus Christ", not an empty tomb.

      I am not familiar with the non-canonical references you made, but the Gospel of Peter, specifically does not mention and "empty tomb", but three men and a self-propelled cross emerging from a tomb.

      "And as they declared what things they had seen, again they saw three men come forth from the tomb, and two of them supporting one, and a cross following them." (as quoted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Peter)

      And a talking cross at that, "And a response was heard from the cross, Yes."

      How does that support your case? Don't you want corroboration?

      April 21, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Akira

      @Chad: :What is your basis for not allowing any of that to be taken into account? By what staggering demonstration of bias could you possibly do such a thing?:

      Please post where I have ever asserted this. You are attributing something to me that I have never presented.

      "Now, I know the objection
      “well, you cant count those!! they were written by Christians!!”

      leading me to reply, “oh, so your criteria then isnt just “well, you cant count anything written that was later included in the bible, but you ALSO cant count anything written by a Christian? Is that your criteria?”

      so, just to help you out and cutting to the chase, here is the atheist criteria you always end up with, do you think it is reasonable?"

      See my first answer.

      You have, once again, assumed much. I merely asked a question.
      And you once again asserted what you think all atheists believe, who your firmly-held erroneous belief that every person who asks you a question must be.
      If you wonder why people say you are disingenuous, you should read some of your answers with a critical eye towards the assumptions you continously make.

      April 21, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II “Your links both refer to William Lane Craig's analysis, not a consensus.”
      @Chad “analysis of a consensus, now, don’t tell me that you are going to refuse to look at that data just because of the author? That would be essentially ad-hominem..

      ====
      @ME II “Paul claims, but did not witness, that Jesus was buried and then "raised". Nowhere does he claim that an "empty tomb" was discovered.
      @Chad “Paul was converted to a believer after Jesus was resurrected.
      "...that he was buried, that he was raised..." quite clearly implies an empty tomb. There is no way to make sense of that statement otherwise..

      ====
      @ME II “These are not all accounts of an "empty tomb". Peter for example, if I remember correctly, simply mentions "the resurrection of Jesus Christ", not an empty tomb.”
      @Chad “hmm.. and, how would you explain a physical resurrection without an empty tomb?
      Wordsmithing again I see 🙂
      Good luck trying to make a case that there is such a thing as a physical resurrection without an empty tomb..

      ====
      @ME II “I am not familiar with the non-canonical references you made, but the Gospel of Peter, specifically does not mention and "empty tomb", but three men and a self-propelled cross emerging from a tomb.”
      @Chad “again, good luck trying to make a case that there is such a thing as a physical resurrection without an empty tomb..

      =====
      @Akira "Please give us the historicity of the tomb, which you claim, without using the Bible, as asked."”
      @Chad: :What is your basis for not allowing any of that to be taken into account? By what staggering demonstration of bias could you possibly do such a thing?:
      @Akira “Please post where I have ever asserted this. You are attributing something to me that I have never presented.”
      @Chad “well then, if you have no problem with using the biblical docs as historical basis for the empty tomb, why then are you demanding that evidence be provided “without using the Bible”?
      Interesting question 🙂

      April 21, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • The real Tom

      There's no "wordsmithing" except by you, Chard. The "empty tomb" isn't mentioned. Why not? Claiming there was a resurrection doesn't mean there was any evidence of an empty tomb.

      Really, you're looking a bit rattled, with all those dopey smiley faces.

      Better spin your rolodex and run off to another thread with yet another of your fav topics, honey.

      April 21, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • History Channel's "The Bible" Parts 3 & 4 - In Under 11 Minutes!

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTRn28iZD_g&w=640&h=360]

      April 21, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Indeed, it is strange. The central importance of the empty tomb to Chad's strain of Christianity is remarkable when taken together with the fact that the tomb was mislaid or forgotten.

      April 21, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "analysis of a consensus"

      When was it established that it was the consensus that was being analyzed? Again, there appears to be consensus around 2-4 events, which do not include the discovery of an "empty tomb".

      "[Paul] quite clearly implies an empty tomb. There is no way to make sense of that statement otherwise.."
      "how would you explain a physical resurrection without an empty tomb?"

      So now you are presenting historical claims of the resurrection to support the "empty tomb"? But earlier you were presenting claims of the "empty tomb" to support resurrection, or the accuracy of the Bible anyway, right?

      It sounds to me as if you are saying:
      – The resurection is true because the tomb was found empty
      – The tomb must have been found empty because Jesus was ressurrected.

      Please, explain why this is not circular logic.

      -–

      You originally claimed as "historical evidence":

      "- Historicity of the empty tomb"
      (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/18/my-take-godless-in-boston-mourn-too/comment-page-23/ )

      With the exception of the 4 gospels, I am still not aware of any mention of a tomb being discovered empty. You didn't claim the 'historicity of the resurrection', but specifically the "empty tomb". Peter, Paul, et. al. could very well have 'believed' that Jesus was resurrected without any knowledge of an "empty tomb" being discovered. Perhaps they thougt he wasn't buried at all or was buried in a common grave, I don't know, but it is irrelevant since they don't corroborate an "empty tomb".

      You claim as evidence the "empty tomb" and then, excepting the 4 gospels, present an even more extraordinary claim, the resurrection, as evidence for the claim of an "empty tomb", which was itself used as evidence for the resurrection...

      =======
      "Wordsmithing again I see :-)"

      Definition of WORDSMITH
      : a person who works with words; especially : a skillful writer

      (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wordsmith)

      You think I'm a skillful writer. Thank you 🙂

      April 21, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Akira

      @Chad: "@Chad “well then, if you have no problem with using the biblical docs as historical basis for the empty tomb, why then are you demanding that evidence be provided “without using the Bible”?
      Interesting question "

      Because I was reposting the question previously asked by ME II, which was:

      Chad, do you think it’s possible to answer ME II’s question without inserting your opinion of what you think atheists’s think?

      Please give us the historicity of the tomb, which you claim, without using the Bible, as asked.

      April 21, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Chad will never give the honest answer: "I can't," Akira. Instead of answering the question as it was asked, he'll weave and dance and dodge and repeat his insistence that the bible shouldn't be excluded.

      Such a fvcking sc umbag.

      April 21, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
    • Leonid

      This is truly a pointless argument on both sides. There is NO religion that holds the absolute truth. Religion is more of a discipline and a way for humans to find meaning in something, a way of preserving order in one's life. The Bible is a compilation of many texts including many from the Jewish Talmud in the Old Testament. Actually the Old Testament pretty much is the Jewish Talmud. All the texts in the Quran, Talmud, and Bible are just the interpretations of their many authors. Texts that have been translated for centuries into multiple languages. Picture it as a game of telephone. What was written or said hundreds of years ago might not be what is found in these writings today but just an interpretation.

      There is no right or wrong in religion. It is people's individual interpretations that leads to violence, hatred, and radicalization.

      My belief is that no matter what people's beliefs might be, we are the most dominant and superior species on this planet. Yet instead of showing our unity and similarities, we only look for differences and how to set ourselves apart from each other.

      I think the time has long passed to stop this nonsense and look for ways to unite us instead of looking at things with a blind eye. In this day and age with all this modern technology that has enabled us to become more globalized than ever before, it should become imperative to all of us to find some common ground so that we can all live in peace as prosper. Lets try to set an example for our generation and the generations to come.

      April 21, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • biggles

      Of course not. They made up the whole thing. How many times do u need to b told, moron? Who rises from the dead, bozo? Santa Claus? Dodo?

      That's why they were brutally murdered.

      April 24, 2013 at 3:02 am |
  10. Shayna

    I am also Humanist clergy in the Detroit Metro area since 1987 and have seen an enormous rise in people refusing to go back to the church to get married & buried. In response to the Christian Right /fanatics, many have decided they they are ready to proudly say "I am good without god" and want to be heard without discrimination or fear!

    April 21, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • Wondering

      I'm with you right up to the clergy thing, then you lose me. Why? I personally don't have the slightest need for anything a clergy can provide. I mean, secular clergy is like an anarchist leader: it's unclear on the concept.

      Am I missing something? What do humanist clergy do?

      April 21, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • lol??

      Yeah, put the gubmint in charge of the women. That'll work.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Akira

      I certainly do not think religion should be in charge of women...we've already seen how that works out for women...gee, what's the answer?

      April 21, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
  11. faith

    "When I was young, they packed me off to school
    and taught me how not to play the game.
    I didn't mind if they groomed me for success,
    or if they said that I was a fool.
    So I left there in the morning with their God tucked underneath my arm
    their half-asses smiles and the book of rules.
    So I asked this God a question and by way of firm reply,
    He said I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
    So to my old headmaster (and to anyone who cares);
    before I'm through I'd like to say my prayers
    I don't believe you: you got the whole damn thing all wrong
    He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays."

    Aqualung: Wind Up, Ian Anderson (the bard of modernity)

    April 21, 2013 at 9:33 am |
    • Science

      Mourning faith ..................smoking hot.................those words of yours ?

      April 21, 2013 at 9:45 am |
    • Science

      Smoking HOT!

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/13/pope-asks-cardinals-to-study-church-reform/comment-page-2/#comments

      April 21, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • Doobs

      Ooh, faith quoted a song! That means the bible is true!

      April 21, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • Scienec

      Morning Doobs..............for a good laug make sure to check out the chessy banner when it shows up

      Or copy and paste link below !

      Will Ferrell as George Bush – watch more funny videos

      April 21, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Doobs

      Morning, Science! Thanks for the laugh. I love Will Ferrell.

      April 21, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Doobs ........................URL's funny science .................for chadie too !

      http://www.funnyordie.com/?rel=header

      Peace....good laughs at link above !

      April 21, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Bull In The Heather

      Like I said Faith, brilliant stuff. Love the parodies. I take it back when I said your bigoted, thick redneck impersonation was too stupid to be believable. Don't get me wrong, you still come across as both charmless and witless, but you walk the line very well. I particularly like the long, ramblingly mental posts about nothing in particular. I'd almost swear you actually are a thick, pointless, insecure christian if it weren't for the obvious satirical intent of your posts. Good work!

      April 21, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
  12. Bull In The Heather

    I'm hugely impressed by the poster Faith's comments – very funny pastiche of the kind of thing deranged, window-licking, god-fancying loonies gibber to themselves from their bachelor/spinster bedsits. If I had one criticism it's that your comments were maybe a bit too cretinous to be believable, but otherwise, highly entertaining stuff; keep it up; you really make those insecure fundamentalists look stupid.

    April 21, 2013 at 8:51 am |
    • faith

      Bono: My understanding of the Scriptures has been made simple by the person of Christ. Christ teaches that God is love. What does that mean? What it means for me: a study of the life of Christ. Love here describes itself as a child born in straw poverty, the most vulnerable situation of all, without honor. I don't let my religious world get too complicated. I just kind of go: Well, I think I know what God is. God is love, and as much as I respond [sighs] in allowing myself to be transformed by that love and acting in that love, that's my religion. Where things get complicated for me, is when I try to live this love. Now that's not so easy.

      April 21, 2013 at 9:16 am |
    • The real Tom

      So, faith, you think your posts here exemplify your belief.

      Wow. You must speak a different brand of English than everyone else, then.

      April 21, 2013 at 9:47 am |
    • The real Tom

      Is this an example of your wonderful way of channeling your god, faith? "u don't see wonderful christians beotchin all day. we're tough. god sends rain on you nasty disgusting filthy immoral violent hateful stupid undeserving sick atheists and on wonderful, kind, thoughtful, generous, good, decent christians, u idiots! duh

      cry me a river, whiners"

      April 21, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • faith

      "Bull In The Heather
      True, but only in a metaphorical sense, at least if you're a liberal christian who doesn't mind cherry-picking biblical morality.
      If you're a jesus freak on the other hand, it's literally true, so you shrug your shoulders and say "yeah, so what?" like that's some kind of response to the allegation that god engaged in almost complete genocide of the entire earth's population. All those drowned new-borns deserved it after all."

      and you think you are going to escape eternal damnation? lol

      Never mind that it's a story preposterous enough to exclude you from the realm of rational debate, never mind that if someone invented it now you'd back away from them and run for your butterfly net, it's also the most awe-inspiringly pointless mass-murder in all of fiction."

      April 21, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
  13. Austin

    Faith, keep up with the countering wittiness. Your personality has so much energy!

    April 21, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • Science

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/20/muslim-leaders-condemn-bombing-suspects/#comments

      April 21, 2013 at 8:46 am |
    • faith

      faith
      "What part of Terry's post is incorrect?" i give up

      sup wit dat?

      April 21, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • faith

      Austin, did anyone object to terry's statement?

      April 21, 2013 at 10:00 am |
  14. Austin

    And Jesus was a sailor
    When he walked upon the water
    And he spent a long time watching
    From his lonely wooden tower
    And when he knew for certain
    Only drowning men could see him
    He said "All men will be sailors then
    Until the sea shall free them"
    But he himself was broken
    Long before the sky would open
    Forsaken, almost human
    He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
    And you want to travel with him
    And you want to travel blind
    And you think maybe you'll trust him
    For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.

    April 21, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • Fishers of Men, pulling you from the deep sea

      16 the people living in darkness
      have seen a great light;
      on those living in the land of the shadow of death
      a light has dawned.”f
      17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

      18 As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19“Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will send you out to fish for people.” 20 At once they left their nets and followed him.

      April 21, 2013 at 8:31 am |
    • Fishers of Men, pulling you from the deep sea

      All aboard! Look for the Lord in your life. Wait upon the Lord's voice.

      April 21, 2013 at 8:34 am |
    • Science

      BS................Austin

      April 21, 2013 at 8:37 am |
    • Austin

      Science , Good morning! Can you believe that people were cheering in Canada? What would you do if you were around people who did that?

      April 21, 2013 at 8:43 am |
    • Science

      Emotions crazy sh-it ! .......................Austin

      April 21, 2013 at 8:50 am |
    • The real Tom

      "What would you do if you were around people like that?"

      Tell them they were azzholes and walk away. Just like I do to you, Austin.

      April 21, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • OTOH

      Fishers of Men, pulling you from the deep sea,

      Bring 'em in mates. Kill them! Gut them! Sell them for food and fertilizer!

      April 21, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
  15. bob

    I don't like this article and I'd like to point out that Canada Free Press reporting Muslims are celebrating Boston Bombings. Interesting how the American press is in the back pocket of the USA president and the entire Democratic party. That's why this type of story won't show up in the American press down here. Thank you for having the guts to tell the disturbing but yet important story. We Americans have to be woken up to who we are dealing with and start keeping a watchful eye on our neighbors of certain descent. Sad but true. Please share this message fellow Americans. God bless all those harmed and the brave police officers who brought this incident to an end. Best wishes to all true Americans. Keep your eyes open for neighbors cooking in pressure cookers ion a heap of cow dung.

    April 21, 2013 at 1:57 am |
    • Observer

      Bob,

      Sure, there will be some Muslims celebrating. Obviously, you've ignored the stories about the Muslims condemning the bombings.

      Democrats don't expect Republicans to have any objectivity so your comments are likely as reliable as FOX News.

      April 21, 2013 at 2:01 am |
    • Science

      Mourning .Bob................facts work best for teaching children !

      Evolution wins hands down ..........time for god(s) to get the HELL out of the way................so humanity can evolve !

      Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

      April 21, 2013 at 6:24 am |
    • Science

      or chad

      April 21, 2013 at 8:24 am |
    • Austin

      Cheering in canada? Great, we can just let them bloom and spawn until they sneak bombs around. What a peaceful, freedom loving set of rules.

      April 21, 2013 at 8:26 am |
    • Science

      Have at it Austin !

      Scientists Find Genes Linked to Human Neurological Disorders in Sea Lamprey Genome

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130224142915.htm

      Peace

      Facts work .

      April 21, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Does anyone have a reference for foa a/the story about people in Canada cheering the bombings?

      April 21, 2013 at 9:32 am |
  16. faith

    I've been living to see you
    Dying to see you, but it shouldn't be like this
    This was unexpected, what do I do now?
    Could we start again please?

    I've been very hopeful, so far
    Now for the first time I think we're going wrong
    Hurry up and tell me this is just a dream
    Oh could we start again please?

    I think you've made your point now
    You've even gone a bit too far to get the message home
    Before it gets too frightening, we ought to call a halt
    So could we start again please?

    I've been living to see you
    Dying to see you, but it shouldn't be like this
    This was unexpected, what do I do now?
    Could we start again please?

    I think you've made your point now
    You've even gone a bit too far to get the message home
    Before it gets too frightening, we ought to call a halt
    So could we start again please?
    Could we start again please?
    Could we start again?

    J. C. SUPERSTAR

    April 21, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • faith

      The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly

      And Jesus was a sailor
      When he walked upon the water
      And he spent a long time watching
      From his lonely wooden tower
      And when he knew for certain
      Only drowning men could see him
      He said "All men will be sailors then
      Until the sea shall free them"
      But he himself was broken
      Long before the sky would open
      Forsaken, almost human
      He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
      And you want to travel with him
      And you want to travel blind
      And you think maybe you'll trust him
      For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.

      April 21, 2013 at 12:42 am |
    • I wonder

      "Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times."

      so the story goes anyway...

      And IF Pete hadn't done it, Jesus's prediction would have been WRONG! Can't have that, can we...?

      April 21, 2013 at 12:46 am |
    • faith

      They ask me how I feel
      And if my love is real
      And how I know I’ll make it through
      And they, they look at me and frown
      They’d like to drive me from this town
      They don’t want me around
      ’Cause I believe in you

      They show me to the door
      They say don’t come back no more
      ’Cause I don’t be like they’d like me to
      And I walk out on my own
      A thousand miles from home
      But I don’t feel alone
      ’Cause I believe in you

      I believe in you even through the tears and the laughter
      I believe in you even though we be apart
      I believe in you even on the morning after
      Oh, when the dawn is nearing
      Oh, when the night is disappearing
      Oh, this feeling is still here in my heart

      Don’t let me drift too far
      Keep me where you are
      Where I will always be renewed
      And that which you’ve given me today
      Is worth more than I could pay
      And no matter what they say
      I believe in you

      I believe in you when winter turn to summer
      I believe in you when white turn to black
      I believe in you even though I be outnumbered
      Oh, though the earth may shake me
      Oh, though my friends forsake me
      Oh, even that couldn’t make me go back

      Don’t let me change my heart
      Keep me set apart
      From all the plans they do pursue
      And I, I don’t mind the pain
      Don’t mind the driving rain
      I know I will sustain
      ’Cause I believe in you __ Dylan

      previous song "suzanne" __ leonard cohen

      April 21, 2013 at 12:47 am |
    • faith

      We didn’t mess around with the hoochies on the road; we were the “good boys.” And we treated our fans with the respect they deserved. Chi just might be the nicest person I’ve ever met on the planet, too. Seriously. When I’d talk to him, it sometimes felt like he was a regular nice guy trapped in a rock star’s body. But then when he’d hit the stage, the nice guy left and all you saw was a rockin’ mad man!

      Even though I hadn’t seen Chi in many years, I knew I had to do something to support him after I heard about his accident. When Sonny asked me to go with him to visit Chi, I enthusiastically agreed. I flew from Arizona and Sonny flew from Southern California. We met up in Northern California, where Chi was staying at a hospital. My flight was very early in the morning, and I’d only slept about three hours the night before, so I was way tired by the time my plane landed.

      I pretty much woke right up when I saw the rental car that was given to me though: a brand new 2010 Camaro! That thing was sick! I didn’t even mean to rent it, but there it was waiting for Sonny and I. At first, driving that car was fun, but knowing that we were going to visit Chi, who almost died in the car accident he was in, brought me back to the hard reality we were going to face; our old friend was in critical condition, and it sucked bad.

      We arrived at Chi’s mom’s home, which was near the hospital, and we received a great welcome. His mom, Jeanne, greeted us at the door while his sister, Mae, was cooking us breakfast. Their two dogs took a liking to us right away. They jumped all over us so much that Jeanne had to put them in a cage. The breakfast was awesome and we just hung out for a while and talked before we went to visit Chi.

      After we arrived at the hospital and I saw Chi for the first time, my heart felt like it had shattered. I was hoping for a miracle, but just seeing the state he was in was incredibly hard. It had been a while since Chi and I had hung out. The last time we connected was in 2004 at a radio festival KoRn was playing at Madison Square Garden in New York City. I was only an old friend of Chi, but I still felt so crushed and hopeless. I couldn’t imagine what his family had been going through.

      As Jeanne and Mae talked to Chi and tried to get him to open his eyes, I started pacing around the room. I was so upset and emotional that instead of crying, I got mad. I couldn’t understand how someone so nice and loved could be going through something like that. I saw a tattoo of Jesus Christ on Chi’s hand, and at that moment I thought about how Jesus must’ve had a strong connection with him.

      Sonny and I started talking to Chi, but all we could do was hope that he heard us. Chi was incoherent because of his semi-conscious state and all the pain medication he was on. Still, we just kept talking to him, telling him we loved him and that we wanted him to wake up and come back to his family.

      We hung with Chi at the hospital most of the day and then went out to dinner with Jeanne and her granddaughter. During dinner, I realized where Chi got his good nature from because Jeanne is such a sweetheart. We hung out at the restaurant for a while and then went back to the hospital to say goodbye to Chi. Man, I don’t know if I’ll ever hear a more heartfelt prayer than the one Sonny prayed for Chi before we left. We both just laid and cried on Chi’s chest as Sonny softly prayed and begged God to bring our brother back.

      It didn’t turn out the way we had hoped, but I trust 100 percent Chi has entered into a real and tangible place that has no more tears and no more pain or suffering. I truly believe he has entered the realm of Divine love where there is no such thing as death and decay, and we will be with him again one day.

      R.I.P. our brother Chi,

      HeAd“

      April 21, 2013 at 12:57 am |
    • I wonder

      Sincere condolences to you for your loss of your friend, @faith.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:37 am |
    • Doobs

      @ I wonder

      Faith is just copy/pasting song lyrics and celebrity quotes randomly. This is a quote from Brian Welch about Chi Cheng, nothing more.

      She also quoted Bono, Ian Anderson and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.

      April 21, 2013 at 11:56 am |
  17. HUH!

    Face it, you atheists! You are losers... aimless, lost, living your life without knowing why you're even here, on this earth.
    But worst of all, you're dead: now – in this life and 'twice dead", hereafter.

    April 20, 2013 at 11:57 pm |
    • I wonder

      " and 'twice dead", hereafter."

      You have verified evidence for that?

      April 21, 2013 at 12:41 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Just because you have an answer doesn't mean it is the right one. I couldn't care less if you THINK you have an answer.....dime a dozen.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:01 am |
    • Athy

      I and most of my friends are atheists. None of us are losers. To the contrary, we're all very intelligent, educated people. We're quite able to differentiate between truth and religious bullshit.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:04 am |
    • How very christian of you

      Do you consider this turning the other cheek
      Or loving your neighbor as yourself?

      April 21, 2013 at 1:27 am |
    • Wondering

      When do we get to be triple and quadruple dead? And if this is dead, then double dead will be twice as good!

      Oh Boy!

      I am always amazed that Christians actually believe total nonsense like this.

      April 21, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • Doobs

      I triple dead dare you!

      April 21, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
  18. faith

    "But to others, and to ourselves, it is required that we be profitable; if we be not, Christ will not own us as his servants: it is not enough not to do hurt, but we must do good, must bring forth fruit, and though thereby God is not profited, yet he is glorified, Jn. 15:8 .(2.) His doom is, to be cast into outer darkness. Here, as in what was said to the faithful servants, our Saviour slides insensibly out of the parable into the thing intended by it, and it serves as a key to the whole; for, outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, is, in Christ’s discourses, the common periphrasis of the miseries of the damned in hell. Their state is, [1.] Very dismal; it is outer darkness. Darkness is uncomfortable and frightful: it was one of the plagues of Egypt. In hell there are chains of darkness, 2 Pt. 2:4 . In the dark no man can work, a fit punishment for a slothful servant. It is outer darkness, out from the light of heaven, out from the joy of their Lord, into which the faithful servants were admitted; out from the feast. Compare ch. 8:12 ; 22:13. [2.] Very doleful; there is weeping, which bespeaks great sorrow, and gnashing of teeth, which bespeaks great vexation and indignation. This will be the portion of the slothful servant."
    Matthew Henry

    April 20, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • Observer

      Still STUMPED on a simple true and false question from the Bible?

      April 20, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • faith

      For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
    • Observer

      Yes. EVERY pregnant woman, child, baby and fetus on the face of the earth TORTUROUSLY DROWNED by God.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
    • faith

      Observer
      "nasty disgusting filthy immoral violent hateful stupid undeserving sick atheists"
      Great example of another HYPOCRITE who pretends the GOLDEN RULE doesn't exist. No wonder Christians get such a bad name at time.

      uh, sorry atheists, i am confused. do i sense u r offended with the description of you all used here?

      April 20, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • Austin

      That is not torture. shooting someone is not torture.

      April 20, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • God in our time

      Today God does things a bit differently. He infiltrates the minds of his followers and sometimes alerts them when they are expecting the same kind of Devil-spawn that He eliminated en masse long ago. They may not understand, but they cannot ignore His direction. And thus the result we often see is an abortion by the follower of the God of Abraham.

      April 20, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • Observer

      faith,

      Nope. Just amused by your ignorance and world-class Christian HYPOCRISY. Read a Bible someday. See what "the law and prophets are all about". You are CLUELESS.

      April 20, 2013 at 7:38 pm |
    • Observer

      God in our time,

      The Bible never mentioned abortion.

      April 20, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • ...

      Faith is a nasty disgusting filthy immoral violent hateful stupid undeserving sick Christian who is a great example of another HYPOCRITE who pretends the GOLDEN RULE doesn’t exist. No wonder Christians get such a bad name at times. vitriolic spittle from a "Christian" who worships at the altar of hate. Dripping insanity, dripping venom, dripping disease. Faith. Get some.

      April 20, 2013 at 8:06 pm |
    • God in our time

      God's people who decide to abort are not hearing their God? Do we know they are closing their ears to Him?

      April 20, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • Observer

      God in our time,

      Spend more time reading the Bible. It not only doesn't ever mention abortion, it actually contains more to support abortion than to oppose it. God's actions speak louder than his words when God didn't mention abortion.

      April 20, 2013 at 8:14 pm |
    • God in our time

      Yes, Observer; you mentioned fetus' drowning and I am merely noting that His work, if He is there at all, seems to have continued – at least it appears that way from the end-result we see from the vast number of abortions by His followers.

      April 20, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • Observer

      God in our time,

      The Bible says that if a woman is injured and the FETUS dies, the person responsible must pay a FINE to the husband (not the victim).
      However, Bible says that if a PERSON is injured, the penalty is "an eye for an eye". There's the difference. A fetus is not considered to be a person.

      April 20, 2013 at 8:25 pm |
    • God in our time

      Yes, Observer, my interpretation is the same.

      April 20, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
    • Akira

      As fully 83% of women obtaining abortion are Chrisian, God In Our Time is absolutely correct.

      April 20, 2013 at 9:06 pm |
    • Akira

      *Christian

      April 20, 2013 at 9:10 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: your interpretation of Exodus 21:22-25 fails to actually engage the Hebrew.
      the word there is not "miscarriage" (there is another word for that). it literally says if the child "goes forth" w/o injury... in other words, a premature live birth. there is no support in the text for your position.
      http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/articles/the-misuse-of-exodus-2122-25-by-pro-choice-advocates

      1) the passage does not even remotely suggest the willful killing of a child (as in elective abortion)
      2) the Hebrew word for miscarry is used in Ex.23, but not here
      3) the Hebrew word for birth used here is only ever used of live births (Gen.25:25)
      4) the Hebrew word for embryo OR even the word for untimely death are not used here
      5) the Hebrew word for child here is only ever used of fully born children, and never for one miscarried

      April 20, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      Wrong. It was not my "interpretation". It's what the Bible says.

      – Exodus 21:22-25 “Suppose a pregnant woman suffers a miscarriage as the result of an injury caused by someone who is fighting. If she isn't badly hurt, the one who injured her must pay whatever fine her husband demands and the judges approve. But if she is seriously injured, the payment will be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, cut for cut, and bruise for bruise.” – Contemporary English Bible

      April 20, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: I give you the Hebrew. I give you the link to double check what I'm saying. I give you the scholarship. You find an English version that says what you want it to say? This is an ostrich moment for you.

      check the sources. Do your homework. Your cited interpretation fails to account for the 5 things I listed above.
      You can disagree with the Bible here, but it's a denial of the facts to say "that's what it says!"

      Here's another couple of sites to try...
      http://www.str.org/site/News2?id=5700
      http://www.equip.org/articles/exodus-2122-25-biblical-support-for-abortion/

      April 20, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      The Contemporary English Bible is published and endorsed by the American Bible Society.

      If you feel that they are incompetent and know far less than you do, you need to take that up with ABS.

      Meanwhile, please tell us what the ONE TRUE English Bible is since they all disagree with each other.

      Please spread the word that this Bible is FALSE. Let everyone know that ABS doesn't know what they are doing.

      April 20, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
    • whylie

      I always find it amusing when people who claim to be "Christian" tell Atheists, Wiccans, etc. that they are going to hell. Why waste the words, seeing as they (we) don't even believe in it!

      April 20, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: yes, it is much safer for you to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. pun intended.

      why are you afraid to read? the ABS is not so monolithic as you would claim. there are MANY translations of the Bible – have you read multiple versions? do you understand there are different philosophical approaches to interpretation? some paraphrase (dynamic equivalence), some are committed to the current vernacular ('living' or 'today's' translations), some are woodenly literal (word-for-word)... what is amazing is how despite that, they almost all agree on what matters most.

      but in this discussion, you are not concerned about the Bible as a whole. you are looking closely at a particular passage. EVERY scholar would tell you when you find such places where there are variant readings – go to the source! what does the Hebrew say here? how have the words been used? what is the accurate usage?

      by your argument above, you think that everyone at ABS agrees with EVERY SINGLE vocabulary & translation choice made – AND you apparently think they only publish one version... again, your position is untenable.

      look, Bruce Metzger literally wrote the book on interpreting the Bible, and he was the head of the ABS. Just read his principles for interpreting passages. your methods are deeply misguided. His answer to your question is below (since you obviously won't listen to mine).
      http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_trans_metzger4.html
      "The question is often asked, Which is the best version of the Bible to use? It is impossible to give a simple answer to this question. It is rather like asking, Which is the best place to go for a vacation? The answer depends on what the individual wants. So too with versions of the Scriptures; different translations are intended for different purposes. For detailed and intensive study, especially in preparation for teaching, a word-for-word translation would probably be best. ..."

      Point being: what do the individual words mean? you want to be intensive & accurate, right? check it out. Brown Driver Briggs is the leading Hebrew-English lexicon. Go check it out. what do these words mean?

      it's obvious you don't believe in the Bible. but purposefully choosing to misrepresent it lacks academic integrity.

      April 20, 2013 at 10:36 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      "purposefully choosing to misrepresent it lacks academic integrity."

      I reported EXACTLY what the Bible endorsed by the ABS stated. So much for lacking "integrity".

      At least we agree that the is NO Bible version that is 100% accurate.

      Since you know more than the Biblical scholars who interpreted the Bible for ABS, why not apply for the job?

      April 20, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: are you not reading what I wrote? You wanted ABS. I gave you the HEAD of the ABS. I quoted him.

      I have a degree in this field. I'm not going AGAINST the scholarship, but WITH it. I'm simply daring you to READ the scholarship. Apparently, you are afraid to do that and would rather continue to stay on the surface & say "but that's what it says..."

      Seriously: pick your favorite ABS scholar on Exodus. READ his/her commentary. WATCH how they deal with this.

      And NOTE: you continue to argue for a singular translation from the ABS. Look it up. They have other versions. Again, read Metzger's point. He's not saying "hey, you can't believe this stuff." He's arguing FOR it.

      April 20, 2013 at 10:51 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      The biggest problem with Christianity, besides hypocrisy, is the Bible. The book supposedly written with God's guidance, is full of many good morals, but also errors, contradictions, hypocrisy and honsense. Every Christian seems to assume that they are the only ones to know what it really means. It is this delusion that enables them to hypocritically pick on gays or pretend that the Bible mentions abortion, for instance.

      If you can help educate Christians that it is subject to errors and interpretations, perhaps they won't be so foolish in thinking they are sure of what it says. Maybe then, they will become more compassionate and actually follow the Golden Rule.

      April 20, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer:
      1) it is deeply hypocritical for any Christian to claim that ho.mo.se.xual sin is any worse than any other sin. especially since it is clear that all sins equally required Jesus' death to save us.

      2) at no point did I say the bible is full of errors & contradictions. that was your assertion.

      3) I was not claiming I have the sole correct interpretation. On the contrary, I continually was pointing you to the best available scholarship on these issues. are you changing the subject?

      4) as Madalyn Murray O'Hair so rightly stated: the Golden Rule is impossible. Anyone who takes it seriously recognizes that we are consumed with ourselves all day every day in thought, word & deed. The notion of moving toward another (much less everyone) with that same level of preoccupation is a direct affront to our daily life & assumptions.

      why do I point that out? because, as a Christian, I see this major difference between Christianity & every other major religion and/or belief system on the planet...
      others: do enough good, get loved/accepted/in on what really matters.
      Christianity: you are *already* loved (despite utterly failing) – so NOW, live in the joy of that.

      Christianity is not: WWJD? but What Has Jesus Done? He alone followed the Golden Rule. It was designed to point out how life should be and how we utterly fail it so we would rely on him instead of ourselves.

      Appealing to the Golden Rule for self-affirmation fails to understand what it exposes about our broken human condition. We are all hypocrites & liars. The Good News: Jesus died for a hypocrite like me... and he's changing me.

      April 20, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
    • Observer

      "at no point did I say the bible is full of errors & contradictions. that was your assertion"

      Didn't say you did. It's just obvious.

      April 20, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: as obvious as the meaning of Exodus 21:22-25?

      April 20, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
    • Observer

      As obvious as contradicting itself (in the same version) about a person's age when they became king or claiming that the ratio pi is equal to 3 or claiming that the sun, moon, or earth suddenly stopped dead in it's tracks. 🙂

      April 20, 2013 at 11:29 pm |
    • Austin

      Went backwards too.

      April 20, 2013 at 11:37 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: you're making my point: same tactics, just different passages.
      read the scholarship. there are direct answers to those objections as well.

      if you're going to object to Christianity, it's best to object to actual substance.
      instead of quibbling about Pi & dating, why not protest the resurrection & the claims of Jesus?
      obviously, if the latter are true, everything else is minor. If they're not, you've got good grounds to dismiss it.

      no doubt there are idiot atheists & really intelligent atheists & everything in between. when I object to atheism, I try to do so on the grounds of its most intelligent & articulate advocates. I'd ask you for the same respect for Christians. (and to be clear: i'm not pointing to myself there, but rather to others.)

      what is obvious to me: this is too important a topic to dismiss just because you point to anecdotal fools on either side.

      April 20, 2013 at 11:42 pm |
    • ...

      Then why, WHY, Russ, can't the Bible be written in a clean, concise way, with all of the scholarship meticulously added in, so that there can possibly be no misinterpretation? Because everyone interprets it differently. That's the beauty of the Bible, that it allows each person to gain knowledge through their own interpretation. That's also where all of the strife comes from. All of the division. All of the hate. Because everyone interprets it differently. One would think it would be clear to everyone, since it's supposed to be the inerrant word of God. Instead, we have...this.
      You're a scolar, Russ. Nobody should have to work so damed hard at trying to figure out what God had to say. And it changes with every new scholar that looks at it.

      April 21, 2013 at 12:50 am |
    • Russ

      @ ...
      you have missed the big picture. it's not that hard. sure, when Observer asks a particular question about an obscure & contested passage that involves intricacies in an ancient language, there is a lot of work to be done. but the central message of the Bible is abundantly clear.

      for example, despite the VAST number of Christian denominations which disagree on all sorts of things, virtually EVERY SINGLE ONE agrees on the central tenets the Bible teaches... which can most readily be found in the Apostle's Creed. That's over 2 billion people agreeing on what matters most – despite all the varied personalities, level of intellect, perspectives, interpretations, etc.

      yes, when you go deep, there are both wonderfully intricate and horribly difficult things to navigate. but even a surface perusal can show you what it is that Christians believe & why we find the faith a beautiful gift. it's all about Jesus – what he did that i never could do.

      in sum, the cross tells me two things simultaneously:
      1) i'm worse off than i want to admit (he had to die)
      2) I'm more love than i ever dared to hope (he was willing to die for me)

      Here's a helpful 3 minute video on what the Bible is basically about...
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkNa6tLWrqk&w=640&h=360]

      April 21, 2013 at 1:16 am |
    • Kroth the Bunny-Hammerer, Viking God of Obsolete Bowling Technology

      Kroth know Jesus guy from god convention in Detroit. Him odd duck, mopey drunk, no fun at bar. Jesus whole shtick is guilt, make guilt trip out of accidentally going out for brewskis when his girlies show up for oil massage.

      Much better gods to hang with. Spaghetti god like good party, but him beer volcano erupts Shlitz, worst beer on planet, and it not a stripper factory but a striper factory, and who want make love to bass?

      Kroth not sure why he talk like Tonto.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:25 am |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      "I'd ask you for the same respect for Christians. (and to be clear: i'm not pointing to myself there, but rather to others.)"

      If you check my postings, I think you'll find that I do my best to show respect to Christians in spite of how much I may disagree in some areas. It is because of a lack of respect that I have been "battling" with the so-called Christian named faith.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:27 am |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: yeah, i've got no excuses for 'faith'... but for that matter, i've got no excuses for me.
      I appreciate the sentiment & the conversation.

      @ Kroth: if you think Christianity is all about fear & guilt, I think you've missed the entire point of grace.
      Grace doesn't add fear & guilt (don't you feel bad Jesus had to do this?) – it gets rid of it (he sees my mess to the bottom & yet STILL loves & wants in on life with me).
      as Jesus said: you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free... (not: make you feel really guilty & afraid)

      April 21, 2013 at 1:46 am |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      "i've got no excuses for me.". You have no reasons to need any excuses. You have been polite and objective and that's all anyone can ask for or expect on here.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:50 am |
    • Kroth the Bunny-Hammerer, Viking God of Obsolete Bowling Technology

      Kroth has much better followers than Jesus. Jesus has snoozer guys. Look at Russ guy. Who would want to hang with him for eternity?

      April 21, 2013 at 1:53 am |
    • Observer

      Kroth the Bunny-Hammerer,

      While I disagree with Russ on several issues, he has shown more class and objectivity than you appear capable of. You are setting a bad example.

      April 21, 2013 at 1:57 am |
    • Kroth the Bunny-Hammerer, Viking God of Obsolete Bowling Technology

      Kroth stumble on thread for the humor-impaired.

      April 21, 2013 at 2:06 am |
    • faith

      "Akira
      As fully 83% of women obtaining abortion are Chrisian, God In Our Time is absolutely correct." that's ridiculous! how dare you!

      April 21, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • The real Tom

      How dare she what, faith? Tell the truth? That's what statistics show. Look it up.

      April 21, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • biggles

      U r mad. Try 100% all dedicated, consecrated, sanctified, holy ghost, reborn, fundamental, holiness, pilgrim saints of god!

      April 21, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • biggles

      Yes, and how do you know the exact percentage tom the moron? Huh? U pathetic Nazis know everything your fellow god-hating Nazi devils know, don't Chas? How is that possible? Dottie? U stupid piece of vomit. Don't forget to ask yourself more questions, dm

      April 22, 2013 at 3:40 am |
    • faith

      is dodo the biggest idiot of all time? lol

      April 24, 2013 at 12:12 am |
  19. Observer

    faith,

    True or false?

    The Bible says that at one point God TORTUROUSLY DROWNED EVERY pregnant woman, child, baby, and fetus on the face of the earth.

    April 20, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      I'll play.

      True.

      Shoot me another one.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • faith

      Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

      And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling–these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

      The Pharisee, taking up his position, said to himself these words: God, I give you praise because I am not like other men, who take more than their right, who are evil-doers, who are untrue to their wives, or even like this tax-farmer.

      The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

      "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

      Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

      And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

      So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

      For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now–and never to be equaled again.

      a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.

      Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

      Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.

      They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

      For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?"

      April 20, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
    • faith

      “We swears, to serve the master of the Precious. We will swear on… on the Precious!”

      April 20, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • Bull In The Heather

      True, but only in a metaphorical sense, at least if you're a liberal christian who doesn't mind cherry-picking biblical morality.

      If you're a jesus freak on the other hand, it's literally true, so you shrug your shoulders and say "yeah, so what?" like that's some kind of response to the allegation that god engaged in almost complete genocide of the entire earth's population. All those drowned new-borns deserved it after all.

      Never mind that it's a story preposterous enough to exclude you from the realm of rational debate, never mind that if someone invented it now you'd back away from them and run for your butterfly net, it's also the most awe-inspiringly pointless mass-murder in all of fiction.

      April 21, 2013 at 9:16 am |
    • faith

      "Bull In The Heather
      True, but only in a metaphorical sense, at least if you're a liberal christian who doesn't mind cherry-picking biblical morality.

      If you're a jesus freak on the other hand, it's literally true, so you shrug your shoulders and say "yeah, so what?" like that's some kind of response to the allegation that god engaged in almost complete genocide of the entire earth's population. All those drowned new-borns deserved it after all.

      Never mind that it's a story preposterous enough to exclude you from the realm of rational debate, never mind that if someone invented it now you'd back away from them and run for your butterfly net, it's also the most awe-inspiringly pointless mass-murder in all of fiction." lol

      April 21, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
  20. faith

    Observer
    "the FACT that even the whole creation and everything that exists testifies of Him"

    "the FACT that even the whole creation and everything that exists testifies" that the world could have been created by Zeus.

    "the FACT that even the whole creation and everything that exists testifies" that the world could have been created by a committee of zombies.

    "the FACT that even the whole creation and everything that exists testifies" that the world could have been created by Moe, Larry, and Curly before they came to earth or an INFINITE number of possibilities.

    dottie, take that god of yoursa and get lost. delighted u finally found god. now, go worship him, hon. u r free. no need to remain here being miserable and spreading your depressive thoughts. go promote moe zeus fsm. we believe u. congratulations. now go somewhere else and rejoice

    April 20, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • faith

      Observer
      faith,

      Since you obviously don't believe in it or have read it:

      – Matthew 7:12 "Treat others as you want them to treat you. THIS IS WHAT THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS ARE ALL ABOUT.”

      Don't talk about it when you don't have a clue "WHAT THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS ARE ALL ABOUT.”

      how do u expect me to correct you when i can't stop laughing at u?

      April 20, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • Observer

      faith,

      Your continual juvenile name-calling and insults show you don't follow the Golden Rule which is "what the law and the prophets are all about" according the BIBLE. Read it someday. Ooops.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • angie

      Is this faith like 10 years old? Drivel can come at an early age when young minds are not challenged.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • faith

      "Observer
      faith,
      Your continual juvenile name-calling and insults show you don't follow the Golden Rule which is "what the law and the prophets are all about" according the BIBLE. Read it someday."

      dogdo, do u want me to call satan and inform him of your behavior? "the golden rule" u said, is that correct? hold it roght there babe. r u delusional, insane, retarded, dependent on an invisible sky daddy, pathetic and absurd? god's word is something u believe should be incorporated into one's life style?

      SATAN, OH SPLIT-HOOF! CALLING THE DEVIL. YO PRINCE OF DARKNESS! YOU'VE GOT A RUNAWAY DEMON OVER HERE

      April 20, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Doobs

      Apparently faith has satan on speed dial.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
    • Dorthy

      There is nothing wrong with sacrificing unto Molech. (children fire sacrifices?

      that is why if we deprive our children the truth, the same thing that we do through trickery (evolution) will happen. We will pass our children through the fire unto Satan.

      i like s.ex baal style.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • Observer

      faith,

      Your continuous display that you have zero regard for the Golden Rule shows world-class HYPOCRISY. Keep up the good work. You are just justifying the image of many Christians who preach but don't follow the Bible. Well done.

      April 20, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • Austin

      Why did Jesus turn over the money changers table. Hint ...
      How many times did Jesus mention Heaven?
      How many times did Jesus mention hell?

      April 20, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
    • Austin

      What happens when a major battle is won? Celebration? How will the people in heaven feel when Satan is put in his place?
      Sad?

      April 20, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • Christopher Blackwell

      Faith how amusing that when a person says he cares about the victims all you can do is condemn him because he does not believe what you believe. Why do you waste some much time condemning others.Your own god warns you against trying to judge others and warns that you will be judged as harshly by god as harshly as you judge others. Your own life cannot be in very good shape for you to replay in such a hateful manner.

      This Atheists is a compassionate many that is a plus in my book, You are a hateful person ad that is a minus in my book. So you are in no position to pass judgment on anyone until you clean up your action.

      Meanwhile below is an interesting study you might learn from.

      Belief in an angry God associated with mental illnesses

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/17/study-belief-in-an-angry-god-associated-with-variety-of-mental-illnesses/

      April 20, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • faith

      Christopher Blackwell
      Faith how amusing that when a person says he cares about the victims all you can do is condemn him because he does not believe what you believe. Why do you waste some much time condemning others.Your own god warns you against trying to judge others and warns that you will be judged as harshly by god as harshly as you judge others. Your own life cannot be in very good shape for you to replay in such a hateful manner. This Atheists is a compassionate many that is a plus in my book, You are a hateful person ad that is a minus in my book. So you are in no position to pass judgment on anyone until you clean up your action. Meanwhile below is an interesting study you might learn from. Belief in an angry God associated with mental illnesses

      pray for me

      April 20, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • faith

      angie
      Is this sam the stone like 10 years old? Drivel can come at an early age when young minds are not challenged.

      amen angie

      April 21, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • faith

      "Christopher Blackwell
      Faith how amusing that when a person says he cares about the victims all you can do is condemn him because he does not believe what you believe. Why do you waste some much time condemning others.Your own god warns you against trying to judge others and warns that you will be judged as harshly by god as harshly as you judge others. Your own life cannot be in very good shape for you to replay in such a hateful manner.

      This Atheists is a compassionate many that is a plus in my book, You are a hateful person ad that is a minus in my book. So you are in no position to pass judgment on anyone until you clean up your action."

      Dear Chris, I know. I am bad, but I am trying. Sam the Stone is sort of my hero, you know, and i think i'm improving you fvctard, don't you?

      April 21, 2013 at 10:12 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.