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May 2nd, 2013
12:52 PM ET

Ex-NFL player's support for gay NBA player apparently costs him church appearance

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – LeRoy Butler, a former safety for the Green Bay Packers, is one of many professional athletes to tweet support for Jason Collins, the NBA player who came out as gay this week.

“Congrats to Jason Collins,” Butler tweeted April 29, the day Collins came out in a Sports Illustrated cover story.

But Butler says the four-word tweet cost him a speaking appearance at a Wisconsin church.

He was scheduled to speak at the church (whose name he has not revealed) about bullying and his new book, "The LeRoy Butler Story: From Wheelchair to the Lambeau Leap." That was until the church, according to Butler, told him he was no longer welcome because of his tweet in support of Collins.

"The pastor called me and that's when we got into the old, the whole religion thing about gay people and things of that nature and the conversation just went back and forth for us a couple of minutes," Butler told Anderson Cooper on Thursday.

After the exchange with the pastor, Butler took to twitter to express his frustration.

Butler later tweeted that “some parents went to the church and complained about my tweet” supporting Collins. The church, according to Butler, said that if the football player apologized, he would be allowed to speak.

"They basically said this, if you apologize, ask God for forgiveness and remove the tweet, you'll be able to do this speaking engagement with the kids," he said. "I won't do that. That's taking my dignity and respect away."

He continued: "I told the pastor, blame it on my mom because my mom brought me up to love everybody."

Butler recently tweeted that the church apologized for the incident and thanked him “for not releasing the church name.”

Butler played 11 years, from 1990 to 2001, with the Packers and helped them win a Super Bowl in 1997. He was a four-time All-Pro selection, the highest honor for a year of work in the NFL, and is credited with inventing the Lambeau Leap, the iconic touchdown celebration in which a Packer leaps into the Lambeau Field stands to celebrate with fans.

As for Butler's stance on gay athletes in professional sports, he said they have "support from straight guys like me that won't judge them."

"If we win a Super Bowl ring, I don't care who you bring to the ring ceremony, I just want to win the ring," Butler said. "That's what it's all about. ... Isn't that what it's all about? Winning the championship? Not who is in my bed when I turn the lights out."

Since retiring, Butler has been active in the Green Bay community, and his Facebook page chronicles appearances and speeches he has given to churches in the area.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Belief • Faith Now • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (3,002 Responses)
  1. Meh

    As a real scientist. Meaning obe that can at least derive the equation representing a vibrating sphere. I must say that the most 7109 Staples Mill Rd disproven argument is that "there is no god." Such a thing cant be disproven, nor proven, and with most of the Universe being immeasurable and unobservable with instruments we can interact with, believing in the unseen and unprovable IS reasonable and based in fact.
    All of you histor majors and music majors who call yourselves atheists are actually delusional agnostics who form a new religion based on the faith in something you cant know or prove.
    One thing that makes you worse than Nazis is your self righteous denial of your own historical genocides thru Stalin and Mao. And before you start going on about how believing in nothing doesnt link you with them, just remember that you blame Coptics for Catholic history, as well as protestant history.
    Atheism created eugenics thru science, science without morals is by nature racist, which is why you get in a tissy when someone correlates factual IQ scores with race in an expirement. You arent smart, you arent special. Your killers like the rest.

    May 9, 2013 at 11:52 pm |
    • Observer

      It's usually difficult to agree with people who talk about others not being smart when they have little knowledge of simple English spelling and punctuation.

      May 10, 2013 at 12:07 am |
    • Meh

      Im on a smartphone there guy. But if thats your best trolling and you have no answer Ill take it that you are not a scientist. Care to challenge my brain sheep troll? ;)

      May 10, 2013 at 12:27 am |
    • The real Tom

      It's "tizzy," stupid ass, and using a smart phone is no excuse. Get bent.

      May 10, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • The real Tom

      It's certainly no excuse for fvcking up "your"/"you're", as in "*You're* a fvcking idiot and you can't distinguish the difference between *your* ass and a hole in the ground."

      May 10, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Observing guest

      If you noticed the posters here are very obsessed with punctuation. The better someone's point becomes, the more obsessed they become with gramar and spelling.

      May 12, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
    • Observing guest

      If you notice they also mistake profanity for a discussion. I imagine due to the frustration of not having original thoughts of their own.

      May 12, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Meh,

      I think you are unclear on what a scientist is I recommend you look it up (hint: it has to do with what you do, not what equations you can derive). I think you are also a bit confused about what atheists and agnostics are but your point is so incoherent I don't know where to start. Exactly what "faith" is it you think these "delusional agnostics" have?

      You also seem to be making assumptions about what atheists (or delusional agnostics) as a group are saying about Catholics. Unless you have some sort of stat indicating a majority of this imagined group is saying this I'm going to call it out as a straw man.

      Atheism by nature is racist? Please do explain how not believing in god's is inherently racist because this will be good.

      May 12, 2013 at 9:54 pm |
  2. mama k

    In the news (cnn–updated 5/9/13): "Zambian police rearrested two men this week on charges of engaging in homosexual acts "against the order of nature," a rights group said." Zambia is an almost 98% Christian nation.

    Extremist religious sects, including many Christian sects are hindering a basic education about homosexuality. As a result persecution of LGBT by Christians continues.

    Christianity has always been conflicted – certain issues make that conflict more obvious. One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over four million members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage. Thomas Jefferson hit the nail on the head over 200 years ago:

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    Some claim that Christianity and science are not incompatible, yet we find many who continue to ignore science on the issue of homosexuality. Is the problem poor education, steadfastness to one's own flavor of biblical interpretation, or both?

    The following is long, but note the quote from Professor MIchael King below in the section on psychology.
    =========================================================
    Psychology

    The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."

    Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

    The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

    "Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."

    Biology

    The following is from the article:

    Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)

    [ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.

    Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.

    These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.

    "These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)

    The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.

    Hormones, epigenetics and orientation

    Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.

    These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.

    Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.

    But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.

    That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.

    "Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.

    Biological behavior

    Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.

    These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.

    The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.

    "That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."

    "In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]
    ========================================================

    Whenever... preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science.

    (Thomas Jefferson)

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    (James Madison, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution, framer of the first ten Amendments; from A Memorial and Remonstrance as delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785.)

    May 9, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
  3. Science

    NO ANGELS with PITCH FORKS the old pope KICKED them in OFF the TEAM last year !

    From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

    Pope's book on Jesus challenges Christmas traditions

    By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

    updated 10:56 AM EST, Fri November 23, 2012

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/22/world/europe/vatican-pope-jesus-book/index.html?iref=allsearch

    All these years there are suppose to be angels.......................then poof go the angels according to the old pope;.......

    where are the morals there ?

    Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

    The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

    The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

    Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

    THE END !!!

    May 9, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
  4. Anna


    .

    May 9, 2013 at 5:37 am |
  5. Douglas

    The church did the right thing.

    You cannot serve two Gods.

    You either live by the rules or take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

    In this case the game is dead srious. The salvation of the person's soul is at risk as a result of actions and behaviors
    that are decidedly un-Biblical.

    The church was true to its roots and should be commended for its decisive action to say no to the sin of gay coitus.

    May 9, 2013 at 3:27 am |
    • saggyroy

      Live by "THE" rules?

      May 9, 2013 at 6:14 am |
    • sam stone

      Apparently, Doogie, you think a lot about gay coitus.

      May 9, 2013 at 7:49 am |
    • Whoop

      Hay Douglas, if it is so 'deadly serious', then why do you treat the whole thing like its a joke?
      I mean, you obviously don't care about making sure your religion is true before you risk your soul over it, so why should we listen to anything else you may have to say? You are just talking out of your ass.

      May 9, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • HotAirAce

      70+ % of all abortions in the USA each year are had by believers. How many of them are told to stop going to their local cult clubhouse because they didn't follow the cults rules?

      May 9, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Science

      Doogie............you should try IT ?

      For all creationists and ID believers...............IT only takes minutes to figure IT out. No fairy in the sky needed !

      New Device Can Extract Human DNA With Full Genetic Data in Minutes

      May 6, 2013 — Take a swab of saliva from your mouth and within minutes your DNA could be ready for analysis and genome sequencing with the help of a new device.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130506132100.htm

      May 9, 2013 at 8:48 am |
    • Observer

      Douglas

      "live by the rules"

      So do you support slavery and discrimination against women and the handicapped or are you a hypocrite?

      May 9, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Douglas the dirty birdie

      Douglas admitting to pedophilia and gay coitus:

      Douglas says:
      April 28, 2013 at 9:12 pm
      The truth can hurt. It sure does when the boy is on top of me.

      May 9, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Meh

      @observer
      No but Atheists supported all of those with eugenics, and even sterilization programs of African Americans in the early 20th century. See founders of planned parenthood. Gotta hate those facts! ;)

      May 10, 2013 at 1:18 am |
    • Observer

      Meh

      "No but Atheists supported all of those with eugenics, and even sterilization programs of African Americans in the early 20th century. See founders of planned parenthood. Gotta hate those facts"

      FACT: atheism is the belief that there is no god or gods running things.

      FACT: that is ALL there is to it. To assign support of sterilization as an attribute for "atheism", get real. Some support it, some don't.

      FACT: Planned Parenthood is a CENTURY old organization that was formed partly for racist reasons. Tell us how important that history is TODAY to people using its services NOW.

      You must really hate FACTS.

      May 10, 2013 at 1:26 am |
    • Meh

      @Observer

      Fact: Atheism is belief, that means it is a religion by definition pertaining to an unanswerable question on God. See definition of religion.

      FACT: Century old Planned Paelrenthood racism etc. Indeed. Who were atheists that believed African Americans ans other racial groups were subhuman based on evolution as they saw it and the science of the time. Forced sterilization programs continued well into the 20th century to improve human evolution, my Uncle was a victim of this. Thanks for proving the link.

      FACT: There are more Planned Parenthood abortion clinics in minority areas today.

      FACT: Today there are scientific and peer reviewed studies showing links between genetics and IQ. Racial distributions have been made showing correlation between race and IQ.
      Today science is being used to classify people in this manner, the very dictionary definition of racism. Without an ethical influence these scientifically verified findings, can and are used to oppress others.
      Therefore science and reason MUST be checked by morality from another source unless you want more eugenics.

      Want some more? Your just not educated enough son. ;)

      May 10, 2013 at 2:18 am |
  6. They just crazy

    The real important news hidden in this article is just how much MONEY is given by churches, not to help people, but to line the pockets of slick con-artists.
    Where in the bible does it say to have traveling con-artists come and say what you want to hear for thousands of shekels?
    !!!!!
    What Christian out there thinks that giving thousands of dollars to speakers is a good use of the money you donated?????
    ?????
    ?????
    ?????
    And there are thousands of these slick-haired snake oil salesmen making out like bandits off the hard-earned and hard-donated money of everyone who doesn't really give a rip about where their money goes I guess.

    May 9, 2013 at 2:32 am |
    • David

      I have to agree with the point that churches spend a lot on other things than to give to the poor and bring people out of poverty. That is a sinful thing to do. Not that I know a lot about sin, just an opinion.

      May 9, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Meh

      Christianity ended legal slavery worldwide(stress legal). Christians fought themselves to stop Hitler and created modern Human Rights( something Maoist atheists and Islamists never signed onto to this day.) People calling themselves Christians do bad things, do you honestly think that someone believing that Jesus is literally watching every move they make will choose to do evil? Really?) Its lkke blaming all Atheists for Mao.
      What have atheists given us? By your own argumentative reasoning/generalizations; Eugenics, selfishness, instant gratification, a system based on money, smartphones, the atom bomb, Stalin's purges, Maos ethnic cleansing of Tibetan Buddhists(religion is poison remember?)
      Hypocrites all.

      May 10, 2013 at 12:36 am |
    • Observer

      Christianity could be the "poster child" for hypocrisy. No one believes every word of the Bible, but just pick and choose whatever matches their own feelings. That how so many Christians can ignore the much greater number of adulterers among them while picking on gays. That's how they can pretend the Bible mentions abortion while they denounce the pro-choice side.

      May 10, 2013 at 12:44 am |
    • Meh

      @Observer
      Nonsense yet again.
      Atheists pick and choose between science and morality, even religion.
      Im actually pro choice except with partial birth abortions and even then I think if it comes down fo life and death of the mother its a medical decision.
      Retards like yourself paint anti abortion activists as haters of women, but their intention and motivation is protection of what THEY perceive as a childs life. To them its a human rights issue against infanticide. You may disagree, but dont lie about their motives you sick child.
      So lets see, atheists killed more people in Two centuries(Mao, Stalin,Pol Pot, secular America vs American Indians) than Catholics in 2000years and then blame all Christianity, including Orthodox, Coptics, etc for Catholics while simultaneously claiming that they themselves are innocent of other atheist crimes.
      That kid, is hypocrisy.

      May 10, 2013 at 2:30 am |
    • conclusion

      Meh = Mark from Middle River

      May 13, 2013 at 6:01 am |
  7. biggles

    The funniest lie they think they pull off is that they don't believe in god. No evidence, blah, blah, blah and the only reason they live and post here 24/7 is due to their concern for gay rights, to destroy Christianity and to stop the next religious war. They believe they have convinced us that is it. How stupid can morons be?

    Girls, go start a blog denouncing the merits of fsmism. According to you, more evidence exists for him than for other fairy tales. Bye bye

    May 9, 2013 at 1:45 am |
    • Huebert

      Did that make sense in your head?

      May 9, 2013 at 2:21 am |
  8. Anna

    May 8, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
  9. His panic

    It looks like atheists and their hom-os friends are in a state of Panic. That's could be dangerous because Panic have been the reason of many stampedes, brawls and riots. Anxiety, hysteria and panic are similar, but those who trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's only Son will not panic.

    May 8, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
    • Science

      Did you forget this one Bill................... about the angels ?

      And NO ANGELS then old pope KICKED them in OFF the TEAM last year !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      Pope's book on Jesus challenges Christmas traditions

      By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

      updated 10:56 AM EST, Fri November 23, 2012

      http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/22/world/europe/vatican-pope-jesus-book/index.html?iref=allsearch

      May 8, 2013 at 5:01 pm | Report abuse |

      Science

      All these years Bill and there are suppose to be angels.......................then poof go the angels according to the old pope;.......

      where are the morals there Bill ?

      May 8, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Report abuse |

      Science

      Or is that to simple for you Bill ?

      May 8, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Report abuse |

      May 8, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • ..

      Looks like you think "His panic" is somehow clever..
      "His panic" sounds more gay than anything you write about...

      May 8, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • Observer

      His panic,

      Let's see. This week Delaware and Rhode Island joined the growing list of states allowing gay marriage. The writing is on the wall. It's not the atheists and gays who are feeling panicky.

      May 8, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
    • Meh

      @Observer
      So popularity makes right? Define right and wring for me? Now prove it.
      So where is your notion of right and wrong coming from so we can draw from your "ethics well" and formulate laws?
      Glad you got Rhode Island, a place no one in their right mind would want to live unless they enjoy being p*ssed on and thrown in a refrigerator for 8 months a year, lived there, sucks.
      Now that you have "the whole world" on your side as you seem to consider the our dying culture and Europe "the whole world" (racist ahem), could you please tell the 1.5 billion Muslims, the Chinese, the Russians, almost all of Africa, and the rest of the real world how you poor fellas are oppressed here by the evil, white, Christians who are such bad people composing 70+% of this country. Im sure they will be much more tolerant in Iran. I hear Ahmadinejad needs some gays there, being as he said "they dont have any."
      Or Steven Hawkings and you could go with rainbow flags and march through the West Bank, I hear Hamas needs some help against "apartheid" there. ;)
      Want some more reality there guy? You can win the spelling war while im on the smartphone, but I bet you dont want to talk rational science or ethics do ya?
      Heres my 2 cents: How about our secular govt but out of marriage, recognize no marriages as it appears to be a made up religious thing to atheists anyway, and then no one gets special treatment. Oh yeah, then we wouldnt be split between the two WTO parties huh?
      But you keep on being cool there guy, just do what everyone in your respective bubble thinks is right. ;)

      May 10, 2013 at 12:58 am |
    • Observer

      Meh,

      I'm curious about how you define right and wrong. Do you require a 2,000-year-old book to do your thinking?

      By the way, REALITY is that smartphones don't use the wrong context for words and they spell what the user inputs.

      May 10, 2013 at 1:17 am |
    • Meh

      @Observer
      2000 year old book you are still focused on that is directly responsible for the ethical foundation of the society that you enjoy today. Its worked very well for more people than any other idea in history, despite its flaws. I believe in realjty and what works, I also believe in science.
      So where are you getting your right and wrong? Do not digress. Define right. Where can we start so we can make a better place for you since 85% of the world are idiots to you.
      If you cant tell me where you source your ethics then how do you define hate, love, right, wrong, lawful.
      And I will ignore your context argument, there is no context that is right for labeling all Christians hateful and stupid. Dont digress, answer or be the delusional atheist unscientific, ignorant, hafeful racist bigot that I knkw you are. I bet you have no idea how ethics and law works. I bet you dont have any idea about eugenics and the dangers of unchecked scientifically based laws.
      Come on then atheist science man, educate me. :)
      Or are we going to keep on with grammar and context, son. Its too easy. Are there any educated people in here?

      May 10, 2013 at 1:31 am |
    • Observer

      Meh,

      My personal moral compass is empathy and belief in the concept called "the Golden Rule". I am proud to state that I don't believe in all the "morals" in the Bible. Support of slavery or discrimination against women and the handicapped have no place in a society that is trying to advance itself.

      "Dont digress, answer or be the delusional atheist unscientific, ignorant, hafeful racist bigot that I knkw you are."

      Grow up. If you lack the maturity to carry on an adult discussion and insist on ignorant name-calling, you can talk to yourself. By the way, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist. Just one of many wrong statements you've made.

      May 10, 2013 at 1:41 am |
    • Meh

      @Observer
      You see ye of little mind. While you were listening to hip hop I was actually reading books, yes books. I was working in a lab, have you ever been in a lab? And while you learned how to spell and grammar I work on Green Energy solutions, social justice, and fighting REAL genocide and oppression. Not marriage tax inequality.
      My pointing out Hawkins's hypocrisy as an atheist, the real genocides being ignored, I was actually providing YOU with a context since you have such poor perspective, child.
      The biggest mistakes atheists seem to make is that they dont seem to recognize that most of the energy in the universe is impossible to measure because it does not interact with matter as we can observe it(whether classical or relativity related interaction) If you followed recent experiments on bosons you may understand this. Therefore we cant build technology to measure or observe it.
      So tell me how believing kn something unseen is irrational? Immeasurable? Unprovable?
      Now after you get your bachelors, come back and answer where you source ethics from, define "harm" "good" "bad"? Hmm? Thought not. Bet it sucks that this delusional believer just pwned you. Goodnight, english major. Leave the real science to us. That goes for you other english major atheists. Keep YOUR religion out of science. Agnostics, your cool, Im not talking to you guys. ;)

      May 10, 2013 at 1:52 am |
    • Observer

      Meh,

      Come back when you've grown up enough to carry on an adult conversation without juvenile insults and brainless accusations about someone you don't know at all.

      May 10, 2013 at 1:59 am |
    • Meh

      By insult do you mean calling Chistians haters of women, slavers, delusional zombies, etc,?
      Okay Pot, Im Mr Kettle, call me black now.
      Please dont EVER enter law, science, or politics as a career....on second thought, youd fit right in with Republicrats or Demotardians.
      Hope you atheists and other bigoted jerks bullying your neighbors learned something today. First that scientists are not all atheist, and atheists arent special, smarter, superior, nor more well informed.
      Forgive me if I was rude, but it really is something you needed to learn :)

      May 10, 2013 at 2:37 am |
    • Meh

      By the way. You never answered my question. Empathy is not an answer, "understanding" is not a reliable source of right and wrong.
      I may be hungry, and you can undefstand me wanting to take your food, but its not right.
      Empathy is a good thing. But feelings and opinions can deceive. Its subjective, therefore a poor source of law. Have you ever thought something was good for you or someone else and later found out it was not? Golden Rule is fine, but again what I think is being treated good may not be what you think is good.
      Sorry son. You cant "reason" your way to the answer. Thats why religion is crucial for a society, and it makes sense given our evolution likely had religion alongside us. Its likely unnatural and bad for overall health in society to have confusion about morality. Which is why wars happen, and nations exist, not due to religion, rather due to disagreement on right and wrong themselves. If true, it would explain why empires and Soviet Union fell so hard in the past despite their complexity. Anyway, open your mind, and ask an educated Christian about the Bible. You will find that most of the TV and University folks are very wrong on their theology.

      May 10, 2013 at 2:52 am |
    • conclusion

      Meh / Mark from Middle River has apparently suffered some sort of brain haemorrage or damage of some kind.
      What a schizoid bunch of posts. All paranoia and delusion and lies. A "true Christian" indeed.

      May 13, 2013 at 6:11 am |
  10. Atheist Hunter

    Good for the Church! They obviously stand for something!

    May 8, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Yes...bigotry, close mindedness, subst!tute myth for reality...yea them

      May 8, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Science

      And NO ANGELS then old pope KICKED them in OFF the TEAM last year !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      Pope's book on Jesus challenges Christmas traditions

      By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

      updated 10:56 AM EST, Fri November 23, 2012

      http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/22/world/europe/vatican-pope-jesus-book/index.html?iref=allsearch

      May 8, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
  11. faith

    the AnViL™

    to people who aren't delusional and mentally ill – it's obvious that tolerance of religious idiocy has to end, and violently if needs be.
    enough is enough

    i have and continue to report this vici ous te rror ist. make sure you do, too. cnn must and will be held accountable for encouraging her and her co-conspi rators in this obsc enity

    May 8, 2013 at 2:22 am |
    • sam stone

      that's funny

      May 8, 2013 at 3:49 am |
    • Science

      faith tou as bad as HS who is NOT a sweet heart..............do the math if you can faith ?

      Update :

      See for yourself below.................The fairy in the sky did NOT create us !!!

      Monkey Math: Baboons Show Brain's Ability to Understand Numbers ..........E = mc2..............(U-Pb) numbers do not lie !

      May 3, 2013 — Opposing thumbs, expressive faces, complex social systems: it's hard to miss the similarities between apes and humans. Now a new study with a troop of zoo baboons and lots of peanuts shows that a less obvious trait – the ability to understand numbers – also is shared by humans and their primate cousins.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130503132719.htm

      OR.........take a ride on a DINO.

      Fossil records are better to read than the nasty bible..................no god(s) required !

      Oldest? New 'Bone-Head' Dinosaur Hints at Higher Diversity of Small Dinosaurs

      May 7, 2013 — Scientists have named a new species of bone-headed dinosaur (pachycephalosaur) from Alberta, Canada. Acrotholus audeti (Ack-RHO-tho-LUS) was identified from both recently discovered and historically collected fossils. Approximately six feet long and weighing about 40 kilograms in life, the newly identified plant-eating dinosaur represents the oldest bone-headed dinosaur in North America, and possibly the world.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130507124800.htm

      May 8, 2013 at 7:20 am |
    • Science

      oops.............you............. faith.

      May 8, 2013 at 7:22 am |
    • The real Tom

      Looks like faith had a few too many in the wee hours...

      May 8, 2013 at 7:32 am |
    • Science

      faith is all over the place.........completely lost in space !!!

      on this blog and all others on cnn belief blog.

      May 8, 2013 at 11:51 am |
  12. Science

    See for yourself below.................The fairy in the sky did NOT create us !!!

    Monkey Math: Baboons Show Brain's Ability to Understand Numbers ..........E = mc2..............(U-Pb) numbers do not lie !

    May 3, 2013 — Opposing thumbs, expressive faces, complex social systems: it's hard to miss the similarities between apes and humans. Now a new study with a troop of zoo baboons and lots of peanuts shows that a less obvious trait – the ability to understand numbers – also is shared by humans and their primate cousins.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130503132719.htm

    May 7, 2013 at 6:13 am |
  13. myweightinwords

    At one time the bible was used as justification for slavery, for men "possessing" their women, and many other things that today we look at as wrong. I firmly believe that the day is coming when denying homosexuals equal rights will be looked at in the same way.

    May 6, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
  14. Anna


    i

    May 6, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
  15. Neal Dakota

    http://goingtodamasc.us/why-the-marriage-debate-has-already-destroyed-us/

    May 6, 2013 at 11:43 am |
  16. Common Sense

    @AtheistSteve
    Excellent choice of words! We are in accord! If we were to go to hell...at least it is with a clear conscience. Again...I agree with the rationialization that you tried to expose Bill to. Hopefully he gets everything out of this life that his religion and its beliefs will allow him to have, brainwashed being one of those finer attributes.

    May 6, 2013 at 11:05 am |
  17. Science

    Maybe they should not have created the wedge !!!

    The wedge strategy is a political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Insti-tute, the hub of the intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Insti-tute manifesto known as the Wedge Docu-ment,[1] which describes a broad social, political, and academic agenda whose ultimate goal is to defeat materialism, naturalism, evolution, and "reverse the stifling materialist world view and replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic
    convictions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

    Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.

    Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

    http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

    May 6, 2013 at 7:10 am |
    • Science

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

      May 6, 2013 at 8:01 am |
    • HeavenSent

      science, your problem is and will continue to be listening to the lies of men who won't save your soul. Only Jesus can save your soul.

      Matthew 23:29-36
      Matthew 27:20-26
      T itus 1:10-16
      1 S amual 8:4-9
      A cts 9:10-23
      Revelation 2:8-11
      Revelation 3:7-13

      Amen.

      May 6, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • Science

      .HS................yep wrong again.................the fire pit of hell ?

      All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................

      The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      May 6, 2013 at 3:00 pm | Report abuse |

      May 6, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Science

      Chomp chomp chomp.............. creationist...........the cults !

      Prehistoric shark captured on film

      May 6, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Reality

      Countering HS's "thu-mptations" with a prayer:

      The Apostles' / Agnostics’ Creed 2013 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple, illiterate,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (References used are available upon request.)

      May 7, 2013 at 12:01 am |
  18. When cows run amok

    Cows gone wild!!!

    May 5, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Studying from the talmud book of lies by traditions of men?

      May 5, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      And it was written by men same as OT. No difference

      May 6, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
  19. lol??

    Cheeseheads are fanatical!!

    May 5, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
  20. faith

    chad, don't blame them. they appear to have been born this way.

    "The real Tom
    Chard yaps yet again: "What would you consider proof?"
    Asked and answered, sh!t for brains. You don't have the proof that's been requested, and all you've been able to do is make excuses for the lack of it. Get a clue, Sherlock.
    Observer Chad, What would I consider proof? Just ONE fact that shows that God exists. Nothing so far."

    and these morons complain.
    guess what girls? time to try something else or don't u get it, still? how many more times does chad have to fail b4 u 2 move on in your lives? dodo birds. try another 17,00 times, ya think?

    May 5, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • midwest rail

      So you dislike it when things are refuted continually, but not when the same drivel is posted continually ? Gotcha.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • faith

      "midwest rail
      So you dislike it when things are refuted continually, but not when the same drivel is posted continually ? Gotcha."

      yes indeed. i love it when idiots prove they are idiots and i get to have a ball laughing at you

      May 5, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • The real Tom

      Look, sugar, Chard's the fool who lies and misrepresents facts continually. He cuts and pastes the same crap repeatedly, as if by doing so he can make people think it's factual. There is no proof for any such thing as a the "empty tomb." There is no evidence that free will cannot exist without a belief in a god. But Chard continues to insist that only he is correct and does so by repeating arguments that have been refuted over and over.

      If you don't like what people like me say to him, faith, dear, then don't read the posts. Or do so and get mad. In fact, I get more amusement from reading your incensed responses than I get from HS's drivel.

      Have a great Sunday, dipwad.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • The real Tom

      faith calling anyone else an "idiot" is like Lindsay Lohan rebuking others for using drugs and stealing.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • faith

      Observer
      DODO, TOM, SAMBO, KIM, OBSERVATION DECK, ANVIL FACE, NO RELIGION, REASON, AL QAEDA

      biggles,

      "Why are you asking? You should know before you lie about sacred things"

      I stated EXACTLY what the Bible said. Saying that is "lying" just points out who the liar is.

      "Historical evidence – no historical detail in the bible has ever been proved to be incorrect"

      "Absolute NONSENSE. Why spread such ignorance?" dorothy

      it surely do, don't it dorothy?

      don't forget, u r morally upright. don't need no god

      May 5, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • faith

      oh, poor little dorothy tom, who don't like u? i think u r funny. please, don't stop asking chad the same question.

      The real Tom
      Look, sugar, Chard's the fool who lies and misrepresents facts continually. He cuts and pastes the same crap repeatedly, as if by doing so he can make people think it's factual. There is no proof for any such thing as a the "empty tomb." There is no evidence that free will cannot exist without a belief in a god. But Chard continues to insist that only he is correct and does so by repeating arguments that have been refuted over and over.
      If you don't like what people like me say to him, faith, dear, then don't read the posts. Or do so and get mad. In fact, I get more amusement from reading your incensed responses than I get from HS's drivel.
      Have a great Sunday, dipwad.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • faith

      cheeseburgers have a rough nite?

      May 5, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • ..

      Fuck off, retard. You lack reading comprehension and the written skills to convey your points in a coherent manner. In other words, you make no sense. What are you, a North Carolina hillbilly?

      May 5, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Oh, I have every intention of asking Chard whatever I wish. If you are in such dire need of entertainment, faith, then why are you bit@hing about it? It must really gripe your ass when someone says something you don't like to your idol.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • ..

      Crazy bitch needs a psychiatric examination and more than a 3rd grade education. Faith sounds insane.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • ..

      " how many more times does chad have to fail" HAHAHA! Even the loon admits Chad fails at his arguments!
      Priceless!! Aw, lost your #1 cheerleader, Chadly! HAHAHA!

      May 5, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • hal 9001

      ".." replied: "Even the loon admits Chad fails at his arguments!"

      I'm sorry, but I am only able to reply to this reply using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE):

      "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!"

      May 5, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      unlike gays?

      May 5, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      faith: what is so hard to understand.......you+shotgun = meeting jesus.......

      May 7, 2013 at 1:48 am |
    • Science

      You to faith

      For all creationists and ID believers...............IT only takes minutes to figure IT out. No fairy in the sky needed !

      New Device Can Extract Human DNA With Full Genetic Data in Minutes

      May 6, 2013 — Take a swab of saliva from your mouth and within minutes your DNA could be ready for analysis and genome sequencing with the help of a new device.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130506132100.htm

      May 9, 2013 at 8:52 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.