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Biden urges faith leaders to pressure lawmakers on background checks
May 7th, 2013
08:27 AM ET

Biden urges faith leaders to pressure lawmakers on background checks

By Adam Aigner-Treworgy, CNN

(CNN) - During a more than two-hour meeting at the White House on Monday, Vice President Joe Biden asked leaders from across the faith community to keep up pressure on lawmakers to support compromise background check legislation even as Congress begins to shift its focus to immigration reform, according to several attendees who spoke to CNN.

Biden urged the roughly 20 faith leaders in attendance not to be discouraged by recent legislative failures, and instead assured them that the White House had not given up.

"Even though he suffered a defeat, he didn't sound defeated," said pastor Michael McBride of the PICO National Network. "And we need that kind of hope from the bully pulpit of the White House."

In the run-up to last month's Senate vote, religious organizations from across the denominational spectrum pressured members of Congress to vote for background check legislation.

Without mentioning the names of any lawmakers, Biden acknowledged the effectiveness of such lobbying efforts and asked those in attendance to continue to target those whose opinions can be swayed.

FULL STORY
- Dan Merica

Filed under: Faith Now • Guns • Joe Biden • Politics

soundoff (447 Responses)
  1. midwest rail

    See previous reply.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
  2. sam

    What kind of childish bullshit is this? Fuck off, troll.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
  3. midwest rail

    Dismissed for lack of intelligence and originality.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
  4. midwest rail

    That would be "heifer". Illiterate and ignorant is no way to go through life.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
  5. midwest rail

    How cute. The troll is offended.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
  6. midwest rail

    H.S., merely because you're too dense to identify writing styles, that doesn't mean everyone is. Though I can't say I'm surprised in your case.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
  7. HotAirAce

    I don't know – I don't see anything above that Billy D wouldn't think possible.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
  8. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    Change your mind glasses, seems like you are suffering from mental dyslexia, calling Obama a Muslim. A Muslim by faith is never a hindu atheist, ignorant self centered, hall mark of a hindu secular, self centered Christian.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
  9. midwest rail

    Fake Bill Deacon. Trolling should never be this boring.

    May 7, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
  10. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    There is no other faith, but to have a faith in truth absolute GOD, foundation of Consti tuion of USA, containing commandments of Truth absolute GOD of human equality and and freedom of human choice in limit of truth absolute. including right to bare Arms to protect freedom from terrorism by believers of hinduism racism, a product of a product of hindu secular ism, criminal self center ism. One may claim to be a person of GOD, but they are acting in defiance of commandments of truth absolute to dilute freedom to bear Arms, a fundamental part of human defense against any attack on human freedom by any one, at any time.

    May 7, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      It must be terrifying to exist in your brain.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      lol
      Awesome handle anita...I need one too.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      And gave humanity every thing, inhuman based on hindu atheism, criminal self center ism, in denial of truth absolute in human life.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I dream of the day that Islamabot finally explains how exactly a polytheistic religion is atheistic.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
  11. lionlylamb

    God was God before Creation came into being. God was there among the many so many Big Bangs which grew into becoming the Cosmos of Multifaceted Universes. God gave to God's families, places in which to grow all mannerisms of celestially livid life augmentations within which to live upon and thrive inside celestial proclivities of livid life formations. We are celestially nurtured growths of atomized cosmologies all made in manifestations of scalar receptiveness upon cellular ingenuities all molded from the sameness structures regarding the atomic dominions of God-based origins.

    May 7, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      And your evidence of this is?

      PS...The bible is not evidence.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      Your bald assertions are noted and dismissed.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • meifumado

      The onus of proof is with the believer.
      You must provide clear evidence and facts.
      So prove it or your a liar.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Richie C,

      Evidence?

      Fractal Cosmologies are evidentiary understandings even though FCs are mostly viewed as being infinite strategies but my perceptions of FCs have limitations which are the atomized and celestial and cellular cosmologies. The atomic cosmologies are the nurturing manifestations of the celestial and the cellular divinities.

      PS, Your writing pungencies toward wanting proofs are as melodious mal-contriteness issuances that dwell of and on negativity demands of which I have no needs for dispensing any issuances of the contrary waywardness in popularity conjectures that feeblemindedness engenders. Until you and yours truly can come up with a better view regarding the cosmological makeup from the extremely small essences to the most huge of scalar dominion, I will stand upon my beliefs upon the 3 Cosmological Dominions of Spatial Relationships which are (1,) The Atomized Cosmos and (2.) the Celestial Cosmos and (3.) The Cellular Chasms of Intelligently Designed Cosmologies.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      I asked for evidence, not word salad.
      Whatever translator you are using does not work as much of what you say, the words do not match each other, and meaning is lost in the soup.
      Try again.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Richard
      Reading Lionlylamb's posts always reminds me of The Postmodernism Generator website.
      http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

      “Society is part of the meaninglessness of culture,” says Baudrillard; however, according to Prinn[3] , it is not so much society that is part of the meaninglessness of culture, but rather the paradigm, and eventually the meaninglessness, of society. The characteristic theme of the works of Burroughs is not, in fact, discourse, but subdiscourse. But if semanticist narrative holds, we have to choose between realism and prepatriarchialist desublimation.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • sam

      "prepatriarchialist desublimation" – my new favorite phrase.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Rickie C,

      Even in Chef's Salads there are many differing variations of celestial life formations to forgo 'down-the-shoot' ideologies with little fanfare to be levied in digestive audaciousness issuances yet to be finalized by the tastiness in word-play(s).

      May 7, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Arthur Bryant

      Methinks you could use a Big Bang yourself.

      May 11, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
  12. palintwit

    Countless studies have indicated that there is a higher incidence of incest and beastiality among bible belt evangelicals than in any other group that participated in those studies.

    May 7, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • A Conversation

      So is your argument against Christianity or against those who falsely claim they know Christ as their savior and then engage in such repugnant behavior?

      May 7, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      cite one

      May 7, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • derp

      Countless studies have indicated that there is a higher incidence of incest and beastiality among atheists than in any other group that participated in those studies. See how easy that was?

      Here's another: "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ~ Abraham Lincoln

      May 7, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Recently published peer-reviewed, scientific studies have conclusively demonstrated that aspartame is a significant contributing factor to food industry laboratory experiments involving rats.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
  13. meifumado

    Biden needs to go away.

    May 7, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
  14. mzh

    I will vote for a law which will be ‘being killed for killing’, in this case in my opinion there will be less chances for an evil minded human regardless of faith to intend or plot to harm or take human lives… there may be exceptions of course by the appropriate investigations by law enforcements…

    Peace!!!

    May 7, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Capital punishment has been shown to NOT be a detterant.
      Actually, when one knows he will be put to death for his crime, will most likely escalate their violence to the point that they are killed rather than captured.
      While I can appreciate the sentiment, it really does not work.
      Also, the pre-meditated taking of a life is considered murder, so capital punishment is government sanctioned murder. Since the government is we the people, this would make every american, technically a murderer, and many peoples religious beliefs or personal beliefs would not allow this to happen, even though it does. Overall, capital punishment is a very slippery slope, and has proven ineffective as a deterrant

      May 7, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • mzh

      Dear Richard Cranium,

      Thanks for the explanations… did not think of it… I was just thinking how can we stop these crime is being taking place in our society where people would love to live with peace… I feel like the peace is going away slowly… could be a lot of things I could think of… lots of kids growing up seeing what their single parents are doing in front of them, physical secret part of the human body is being shown up in their early age and lot more things could make them mentally disorder… I would not like to link any crime with faith as non of the faith teaches violence… it individual who makes the choice…

      Peace!!!

      May 7, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
  15. I AM A MAGICAL UNICORN

    Faith Leader is an oxymoron.

    Well, mostly moron.

    May 7, 2013 at 10:59 am |
  16. examiner

    Biden has his favorite issues: gun control, abortion, and free contraception. He wants to use the church's influence on the first issue. On the second issues, he wants the church to keep quiet.

    May 7, 2013 at 10:49 am |
  17. ME II

    I confused as to why this is a religious issue.

    I would think that the faith-based folks would be more interested in the Internet Tax Bill since the Bible actually says something about taxes.

    May 7, 2013 at 10:07 am |
    • Topher

      I agree. This is a "belief" story because some involved have faith? "Belief Blog" has really gotten lazy lately.

      May 7, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • Roger that

      God is omniscient and omnipotent; therefore, guns laws are not necessary, right?

      May 7, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • catholic engineer

      It's a religious issue because the church has been engaged with the human race for 2000 years. Compared to that, american culture is just getting started.

      May 7, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • I AM A MAGICAL UNICORN

      Yeah. The church tortured and killed people for hundreds of years. It wants to get back in the game.

      May 7, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Dan

      2000 years of getting it wrong, no wonder they refuse to admit any mistakes.

      May 7, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      Sorry I wasn't clear. I was objecting to Biden enlisting 'faith-based lobbying'. I think it was a valid Belief Blog article.

      @catholic engineer,
      So, being involved with humans for 2000 years gives "the church" a say on everything?
      Perhaps it is exactly that kind of thinking that showed the need for the Consti.tution to ensure a separation of church and state (yes, that exact wording is not in the consti.tution.)

      May 7, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Most scholars today believe that Jefferson derived the most famous ideas in the Declaration of Independence from the writings of English philosopher John Locke. Locke wrote his Second Treatise of Government in 1689 at the time of England's Glorious Revolution, which overthrew the rule of James II.

      Locke wrote that all individuals are equal in the sense that they are born with certain "inalienable" natural rights. That is, rights that are God-given and can never be taken or even given away. Among these fundamental natural rights, Locke said, are "life, liberty, and property."

      Locke believed that the most basic human law of nature is the preservation of mankind. To serve that purpose, he reasoned, individuals have both a right and a duty to preserve their own lives.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Inalienable natural rights do not require a god. In fact, if a god can give and take rights, said rights cannot be inalienable!

      May 7, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Bill Deacon,

      "Most scholars today believe that Jefferson derived the most famous ideas in the Declaration of Independence from the writings of English philosopher John Locke."

      Doubtless Locke was very influential here. Jefferson more likely plagiarized George Mason's Const!tuion of Virginia written in late May 1776.

      "I That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their post erity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

      The reference to "creator" was not in the draft that Jefferson prepared for review by the committee of five (the 'fair copy'). Some of the changes to this draft appear to be by Franklin and the insertion of "creator" is likely the result of the committees discussion and not Jefferson's idea at all.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Before it was reviewed by Adams and Franklin, Jefferson's first draft read:

      "We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable; that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive in rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;

      May 7, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      In any case, it seems clear that certain rights, foremost among them, the right to self defense is intrinsic, unalienable, irrevocable (inset your preferred adjective) and NOT a gift from the government. The Constiitution does not enumerate the rights of the people, it defines the limits of government restriction on those rights. Non-theists are correct that while God is not required for these rights to be present to individuals simply by their existence, the ultimate conflict between oppressors and free men typically culminates in government versus religion

      May 7, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      compelled to edit "government versus religion" is more properly worded government versus freedom seekers invoking God as a higher authority conferring their intrinsic, sacred rights.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      There are no "rights" except where some authority with power defines them and makes laws with the idea that they are in existence. No one can prove otherwise.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • JMEF

      BD. Bill you like to say that the people including a religious minority have the right to speak out about what the big bad government may force on them with valid legal legislation, the process of government. Yet those same people if they are members of the laity of the RCC have zero say in opposing the dictates of the hierarchy of the church, such a double standard will be the death of your church, good bye, the sooner the better.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      obvious, I think the original thirteen colonies did a fine job of proving otherwise.

      JMEF the difference being that governments enforce by threat of violence. The Church is a voluntary association. It is organized around discipline to the unenforceable. I understand that you cannot tell the difference, perhaps due to a lack of self discipline and the need to have your rights and responsibilities externally given to you.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Science

      Bill you know !

      May 7, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • JMEF

      BD. I do not have to consult some catechism to know what my rights and responsibilities are. You are the one that screwed up his life and had to find some crutches to lean on. I obey the law and stand on my own two feet and don't need some useless redemption to live a moral life. Repentance is not rehabilitation Bill, still a wretched person aren't you; you keep saying so.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      The law is your catechism doofus.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      If I spend the rest of eternity in earnest aspiration of the highest good God desires for me, I will still be a wretched soul in comparison to His glory

      If you spend the rest of your life being a good person who follows the law, you will only have done what someone else told you to do.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Science

      Bill you have no leg to stand on with the fairy in the sky.......but you knew that !

      May 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      which of us then is free and which a slave?

      May 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Don't need a leg Science. Don't need a fairy either.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • Science

      Bill you know this ...............the sign in the picture is WRONG/FALSE.

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/#comments

      Yhe fairy in the sky did not create US !

      May 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • JMEF

      BD. You have that completely backwards Bill. Enjoy your wretched delusional life but since you admit to being the pathetic thing you are, what gives you the audacity to try and drag others down to your level.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
  18. ..

    "It's my God-given right to blow people away!!"

    May 7, 2013 at 9:51 am |
    • ME II

      If your life is in immediate danger from them, then yes it is your right.

      May 7, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • ..

      You think it's God-given?? I don't.

      May 7, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • ME II

      Sorry, I was ignoring that bit as a figure of speech, my bad. And, I disagree also.

      May 7, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Topher

      You don't think it's God-given because you don't believe in God or because you don't think He endorsed defending yourself?

      May 7, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      Topher, There is no evidence of a god, so how could it bestow rights?

      May 7, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      Still dodging the question. How do you explain the history of the peoples of the earth from 2500BC to 2000BC if only 8 people got off the ark around 2300BC? You can start with the first Chinese dynasty?

      May 7, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Topher

      In Santa we trust

      "Topher, There is no evidence of a god, so how could it bestow rights?"

      "No evidence" is subjective. There's enough evidence to convince millions around the world. Just because you find it lacking doesn't mean others do. Second, no evidence doesn't mean He doesn't exist. It just means you can't prove it. Third, the Const.itution says certain rights are given by the Creator. Are you willing to change that?

      May 7, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Evidence is not subjective. The vast majority of believers learnt from their parents and were told from an early age that there was a god (you do realise that not all believers believe in your god right?). There is no evidence for any god beyond the holy books of the respective religion. Just because billions of people are delusional doesn't mean that there is a god. You demand more actual evidence when you buy a car or house or investment than you demand from a supposedly omnipotent, omniscient being.

      May 7, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      I see no reason to think that a god exist, therefore it is unlikely that one bestowed rights on people. Additionally, regardless of the existence of a deity, the rights that people can exercise are the claimed by them, not bestow from somewhere else, at least in the US, anyway. The government's authority comes from the people, i.e. the "consent of the governed"

      May 7, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Topher

      In Santa we trust

      " The vast majority of believers learnt from their parents and were told from an early age that there was a god (you do realise that not all believers believe in your god right?)."

      That's not true of everyone, though. I'm not one of those. I didn't grow up in a church and was a raging atheist for years. I wasn't saved until I was almost 30. And I do realize not all believers are Christians. But isn't that interesting that all these people believe in SOMETHING bigger than us? That there has never been an atheist culture? That's because God gave us the Creation and a conscience to tell us He exists.

      "There is no evidence for any god beyond the holy books of the respective religion."

      Depends on what you'll consider evidence.

      "Just because billions of people are delusional doesn't mean that there is a god."

      True. But you'd rather go with the extreme minority that there isn't? That's pretty co.cky to say there only a few who are smart and that you're one of them. The billions of others are wrong.

      May 7, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Topher

      ME II

      I admit you kinda lost me there, so apologies if I misunderstand. But "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

      May 7, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Topher,

      the Declaration of Indepdence has nothing to do with the law.

      The Const!tution is the law, and as we all know – there is no mention of God there. Echoing ME II, the Const!tution begins with "We the People ..." – not "By the Grace of God Almighty...".

      May 7, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Topher
      I have explained this to you time and time again, yet you keep bringing it up.

      The forefathers had various beliefs about gods, and put that in the Dof I...it is not law. Just because the forefathers believed in a creator does not lend credibility to the belief. Any mention of god or a creator were specifically omitted from the Const!tution, purposefully.
      Stop trying to use this argument, it clearly does not make your point.

      May 7, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Topher, As we go through this daily with you, Chad, HeavenSent, etc. it seemed redundant but I guess not. Ancient peoples did not understand thunder, lightning, earthquakes, tsunamis, eclipses, etc. and so devised supernatural beings to explain those events. We now understand what causes those events and know they are not the whims of a supernatural being, therefore we do not need the superstitions that developed during that period of lack of understanding to appease said supernatural beings.
      Modern science has actual or plausible explanations for many things and specifically shows that all creation myths are not accurate; it also shows that the majority of the bible is not true or not proveable. What actual evidence is there for a god? What actual evidence is there for your god?

      May 7, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • ..

      Topher, it's not a God-given right. It's a 2nd Amendment right. Wanna get you facts straight? I've seen God portrayed many ways, him holding a shotgun isn't one of them. And yeah, I'll defend myself. Bet your ass.

      May 7, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      You keep ducking the question. How can you believe in the great flood and not answer the historical record of the times? Your lack of an answer puts a lie to your beliefs. BTW all men are created equal except the slaves that had to struggle to gain equality, what is written by men can be subject to interpretation including the bible.

      May 7, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Love this from Thomas Paine:

      It is a perversion of terms to say that a charter gives rights. It operates by a contrary effect — that of taking rights away. Rights are inherently in all the inhabitants; but charters, by annulling those rights, in the majority, leave the right, by exclusion, in the hands of a few. ... They...consequently are instruments of injustice. The fact therefore must be that the individuals themselves, each in his own personal and sovereign right, entered into a contract with each other to produce a government: and this is the only mode in which governments have a right to arise, and the only principle on which they have a right to exist.

      The creator comes before the created, the rights exist before the people, the people come before the government, the government is limited by the people.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Rights don't exist. If they did, there'd not be so much disagreement about what they are.

      Rights exist within concepts and ideals, and where a power can enforce laws that limit actions against those perceived rights.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Topher

      In Santa we trust

      I know you don't believe and in a way I understand that. Of course, I think you're wrong. But then you think I'm wrong. :)

      "We now understand what causes those events and know they are not the whims of a supernatural being, therefore we do not need the supersti.tions that developed during that period of lack of understanding to appease said supernatural beings."

      We know how these things occur in nature/naturalistically. But who created/controls that nature? Just because we understand how lightning works doesn't disprove God is running the show.

      "Modern science has actual or plausible explanations for many things and specifically shows that all creation myths are not accurate; it also shows that the majority of the bible is not true or not proveable."

      Science hasn't proven anything in the Bible to be incorrect unless you start with a no-God presupposition.

      "What actual evidence is there for a god? What actual evidence is there for your god?"

      Science confirms the reliability of the Bible. So does history. Creation tells me there's too much order for it all to be an accident. My conscience screams at me there's a God.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Topher,

      "Science confirms the reliability of the Bible. So does history.
      Some of it, yes, some of it, no. Nothing in the bible that is 'miraculous' is confirmed by science or history.

      "Creation tells me there's too much order for it all to be an accident. My conscience screams at me there's a God."
      Thankfully you live in a country where you are free to worship and speak as you choose.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Topher
      Science has never confirmed the reliability of the bible. Quite the opposite in fact.

      You might be referring to "creation scientists" who are not using any known scientific method, and start with extreme bias so their work is never taken seriously by ACTUAL scientists.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • JMEF

      BD. Except that does not apply in the RCC. It is the dictators/hierarchy of the church that make up the government of the church. The laity either goes along with the dictates or can just get lost as they are doing in large numbers in Europe.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      How do you expect anyone to take your beliefs seriously when it is so easy to poke holes in what you believe? Where is the answer from you to the conundrum of Noah's Ark and the known history of the people on earth? If you do not have a LOGICAL answer why should anybody believe anything you say?

      May 7, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Topher

      I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      " Some of it, yes, some of it, no. Nothing in the bible that is 'miraculous' is confirmed by science or history."

      Fair enough. But because of several secular sources from the period, we know Jesus existed and that he performed "miracles." So we know these people at least perceived Him to be God.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Topher, please provide clear, unambiguous references to support your statement:

      "Fair enough. But because of several secular sources from the period, we know Jesus existed and that he performed "miracles." So we know these people at least perceived Him to be God."

      I'm betting you will prove once again that you are a delusional, simple-minded, liar.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Topher
      Even the best "experts" say that Jesus PROBABLY existed. Once again, you make that leap that experts will not make...try again.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Topher, So you think that a capricious god is thinking "I'll cause a drought in Texas, fires near Malibu, give AIDS to few thousand babies, let millions of children starve to death, etc" and then doing all that because it can?

      May 7, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Topher

      In Santa we trust

      I reject that God is capricious.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      As usual, Topher rejects and accepts things on a whim, never with any discernible facts or logic.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Topher

      Richard Cranium

      Some "experts" will say it. Don't be misleading. What more do you need to make that conclusion? You've got non-Christians saying He existed. They just didn't believe He was God.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • Rupert

      I also like the way he’s dodging JMEF’s question. Here it is again Toph.

      Topher

      How do you expect anyone to take your beliefs seriously when it is so easy to poke holes in what you believe? Where is the answer from you to the conundrum of Noah's Ark and the known history of the people on earth? If you do not have a LOGICAL answer why should anybody believe anything you say?

      What say you to this?

      May 7, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      Well I guess you are a coward for not answering a simple question on how the great flood could be possible given the history of the peoples of the earth. Perhaps you just put up or shut up.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Topher

      Guys, Noah's Ark has nothing to do with what we are talking about. It's a rabbit trail.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Topher
      Simple. There is no empirical, verifiable evidence, so one way or the other cannot be known. That is why they stay with the ambiguous. It just starts arguments that cannot be won, so it becomes inflammatory to continue or start the argument.
      It is that sort of objectivity that I have found the religious lack. Something in your belief will not allow you to say, openly "I might be wrong"...atheists say it all the time.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Topher, you claimed science confirms The Babble. The Noah's Ark myth is relevant because science does not support this myth. You now must successfully defend your assertion, or admit you are wrong – that you believe unsupported mythology as if it is fact, that you are mentally ill.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      Wow, this from a guy that would start his posts off with, what shall we discuss today, and now will not tackle a question you have no answer too. I do not recall how often you commented on an article with posts that had nothing to do with the topic, time to run and hide, Topher.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Topher

      Richard Cranium

      Topher
      "Simple. There is no empirical, verifiable evidence, so one way or the other cannot be known."

      So you'd agree we can't really know for sure that anything in the past actually happened?

      " It is that sort of objectivity that I have found the religious lack. Something in your belief will not allow you to say, openly "I might be wrong"...atheists say it all the time."

      But because I trust God I don't think I am wrong — so why say I might be? Especially on the point of whether Christ existed. Could I be wrong on some things in the Bible. Sure. But this one is very clear.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Topher. You may not agree that your god is capricious, but those things, and more, happen. In your world view god is the driver of all so it must be responsible for those things. How would you describe a god that does those things?

      May 7, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Topher
      We can know things from the past...we have empirical evidence. Just none confirming Jesus, and even if he did exist, which is likely, there is nothing to indicate that he was anything more than just another man...you really like to take things to ridiculous extremes and jump to wild conclusions, to the point of putting words in others mouths.
      My meaning was clear, and because of the meaning, this argument is over.
      To say jesus existed is one thing ( and in dispute), but some supernatural superman is quite another.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Most likely Topher has "left the building" – run and hid as usual, without actually answering a single question or successfully defending any of his assertions. The only surprising thing about Topher is that he keeps coming back for more but even that is becoming less surprising.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Topher,

      Don't fall for the trap laid by those who do the work of the Devil.

      Amen

      May 7, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      So asking someone to defend their unsupported assertions is a trap?

      May 7, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Topher

      Heaven Sent

      Thanks for the advice.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Ah! I was wrong – Topher is still around. Topher, when can we expect clear answers to the clear questions above? How much time would you like before it becomes obvious that you have no answers, and once again show yourself to be a lying delusional mentally ill dead jew zombie myth believer? The choice is yours – answer the clear questions you caused or show your true self.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • sam stone

      "I reject that God is capricious."

      Of course you do. You are a toady

      May 7, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • JMEF

      Well I guess HS sniffed out my intentions. If you get someone like the Topher to admit that the Noah story is not possible, you can move onto raising a human from the dead after four days of decomposing at room temperatures or above and see how impossible that is. Then onto all the other supernatural little miracles that defy logic and common sense. One domino at a time with the deluded.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Topher

      JMEF

      We discussed Noah's Ark quite a bit a few days ago. Do you really think I've changed my position on it? Why do you keep bringing it up?

      May 7, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      HS, Just because you are asked for evidence for your statements that doesn't make it a trap and that doesn't make it the "work of the Devil". You only view it as a trap because you have some logic and reason and see that your position is not supported by any evidence and yet you cannot let go of your delusion.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      You have not accounted for the known history of the time with only 8 people existing after the flood around 2300BC. Who built the Egyptian pyramids, who started the first Chinese dynasty, who started forming cities in the America's based on agriculture, who of the "8 people" began building the Roman lands and power? Pretty strong work load for 8 people, please explain.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Topher

      JMEF

      All of that would have been the descendants of those 8 ... and you know it.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      But all those things I mentioned were going on at the same time between 2300BC and 200BC and there are a lot more Inuit in the Arctic, societies in Mesopotamia, populations in India and Australia, etc.. You cannot account for the different races or the estimated 20 million people that existed at the time not 8, stop already.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • JMEF

      2300 to 2000BC, no rational person could believe the ark story as being true, 8 people did not accomplish what known history agrees upon. Are you rational Topher?

      May 7, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Topher

      I can't specifically, no, because it's not something I've studied. Some of it, though, is known ... for instance the descendants of Joseph and his brothers built the pyramids.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Noah and his wife didn't have any more children after the flood.
      That means that the entire species in all its variations came from 3 breeding pairs of humans a few thousand years ago? Also bear in mind that the men were all 1st order relatives which means that there would be insufficient genetic diversity to avoid the inevitably fatal effects of repeated inbreeding.
      Go ahead and reject evolution, but it is awfully hard to deny Mendelian genetics.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Topher

      JMEF

      I bet our only differences on what happened in history are based on presuppositions.

      And you sure you want to keep with the statement " no rational person could believe the ark story as being true" ... it's a fallacy ...

      May 7, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      Who built Newgrange in Ireland which predated pyramids? Was that Joe's cousin?

      May 7, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Topher

      Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      How do we know it predates the pyramids? What dating method was used?

      May 7, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • JMEF

      Well lets keep it as simple as possible for you. Explain how 8 people expanded into the different races and their varieties? African, Caucasian, American Aboriginal, Asian, etc. that already existed BEFORE the supposed flood.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Joe Biden = Qwisatz Haderach (apologies to Frank)

      May 7, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Doc Vestibule – It would be interesting if there were as few Y-chromosome variants as that would suggest (even with 4 unrelated males). Perhaps God provided the needed genetic diversity by some miraculous intervention. It's a shame God won't repair even the simplest genetic defects if it is able to create most of the genetic diversity we see.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • Topher

      JMEF

      We already discussed this. And I'm not sure there was much difference before the flood. As I said before, you and I have presuppositions ... in this case the age of the earth and that the Bible is true. But after the flood, you'd have some natural selection going on causing changes.

      May 7, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      Not sure Topher – I'll try to find out. Wiki page states it was built in 3200 BC which I think would put it at least a few hundred years older than the pyramids and Stonehenge. It's supposedly only about an hour drive from Dublin.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      lol – when I quipped "Joe's cousin" I was talking about Joseph, not Joe Biden.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Topher

      Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      Very cool stuff over there in Britain. Always have wanted to go. I'm only third generation on my mother's side here in the states.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      This is from: http://www.oscailtmagazine.com/unitarian%20magazine/newgrange.html
      but I haven't found a good source yet.

      [ . . .

      Whereas Newgrange has the opposite: carbon 14 dating showed a date of at least 3800 BC, and possibly older still. If you look up the internet you find a considerable number of different dates. I took this from a University web site in the U.S.:-

      “One of the most impressive prehistoric monuments in Europe is at Newgrange, in Brugh-na-Boyne, County Meath, in eastern Ireland. It covers an area of one acre, and has an entrance passage that is almost 60 feet (18 m) long. Above the entrance way is a stone box that allows the light from the sun to penetrate to the back of the cairn at sunrise on the winter solstice. It has been dated at about 3,700 BCE; it is one of the oldest structures in the world. According to the most reliable Carbon 14 dates available from archaeology. This makes it more than 1800 years older than the Giza Pyramids in Egypt, and 1,500 years more ancient than Stonehenge.”
      ]

      May 7, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Topher

      Alright, everyone. It's time for me to "run away" and earn a paycheck. Have a good day. And God bless.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      No, Topher, I do not have suppositions, I have the historical record of the peoples of the earth. You do not want to study the record because the ark story would not be possible as written. Stay faithful in your ignorance, I am afraid that is all you have, ignorance.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      No answers from Topher, so lying mentally ill believer it is!

      May 8, 2013 at 6:55 am |
    • Science

      Or HAA.................topher can not read the font in front of him or has a hard time with math ?

      See for yourself below.................The fairy in the sky did NOT create us !!!

      Monkey Math: Baboons Show Brain's Ability to Understand Numbers ..........E = mc2..............(U-Pb) numbers do not lie !

      May 3, 2013 — Opposing thumbs, expressive faces, complex social systems: it's hard to miss the similarities between apes and humans. Now a new study with a troop of zoo baboons and lots of peanuts shows that a less obvious trait – the ability to understand numbers – also is shared by humans and their primate cousins.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130503132719.htm

      OR.........take a ride on a DINO.

      Fossil records are better to read than the nasty bible..................no god(s) required !

      Oldest? New 'Bone-Head' Dinosaur Hints at Higher Diversity of Small Dinosaurs

      May 7, 2013 — Scientists have named a new species of bone-headed dinosaur (pachycephalosaur) from Alberta, Canada. Acrotholus audeti (Ack-RHO-tho-LUS) was identified from both recently discovered and historically collected fossils. Approximately six feet long and weighing about 40 kilograms in life, the newly identified plant-eating dinosaur represents the oldest bone-headed dinosaur in North America, and possibly the world.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130507124800.htm

      May 8, 2013 at 7:03 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Six DAYS and still no response from Topher. He must be working on a fantastic reply, or more likely is cowering in a closet clutching his useless Babble.

      May 14, 2013 at 6:42 am |
  19. Brother Maynard

    "Vice President Joe Biden asked leaders from across the faith community to keep up pressure on lawmakers to support compromise background check legislation"
    As much as I am for back ground checks on gun sales ... this rubs me the wrong way.
    The LAST thing we need is more clergy telling government leaders how they should legislate and or vote.
    I was against this tactic when it came to female reproductive / abortion rights ... I'm against it now with back ground checks.
    Mr Biden - SEPARATION of Church and State !!

    May 7, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • Science

      Brother Maynard..................... should the IRS now tax the churches/Faith leaders because Biden is asking for hellp !

      May 7, 2013 at 9:24 am |
    • Science

      Oops ............should have a ?

      May 7, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • Which God?

      Brother Maynard. Biden clearly is using faith based clergy and their as.sociations with other religious organizations as a power PAC. Using them in the political spectrum is clearly outside the purveyance of such groups, gertting them actively involved in the law making realm. This is a clear violation od separation of church and state. The IRS, and other agencies, should be looking into this, including the GAO and Attorney General.

      May 7, 2013 at 10:44 am |
  20. Science

    Pressure for the truth about the fairy in the sky would help maybe ?

    May 7, 2013 at 8:54 am |
    • Which God?

      Yep, Science, no sky-fairy, no god, nothing supernatural. Just reality.

      May 7, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • {*}

      Use your atheist anthem and "Imagine". "Imagine there's no sky-fairy" because "its easy if you try" (if its easy, why do you have to try?). On the other hand, "Imagine" there's a transcendant intelligent being. That takes mental effort.

      May 7, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • Science

      {*}.................by the numbers.................E = mc2...............(UP-b)............says it all.

      Figure t out !

      May 7, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • ..

      {*} is what we use to denoyte an asshole. Well done!

      May 7, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "Atheist Anthem" is a song by the band Leftover Crack that goes a little something like this:

      "Atheism, Satanism, Autonomy,
      It's all the fu.ckin' same,
      Those straight-edge christ-core mothe.rfu.ckers,
      They don't know s.hit,
      Their just looking for easy answers,
      And they're too close minded
      To look anywhere beyond their local church,
      Or whatever the ignorant masses say is true."

      Imagining an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, athropomorphic, anthropocentric being isn't that diffult given that mankind has dreamed up and worshipped hundreds of them over the millenia.

      Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! No.... it's (INSERT DEITY HERE) !!!

      May 7, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.