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Franklin Graham: IRS targeted ministries
"I do not believe the IRS audits of our two organizations last year is a coincidence," Franklin Graham wrote to the president.
May 15th, 2013
09:50 AM ET

Franklin Graham: IRS targeted ministries

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Editor

(CNN) - Franklin Graham, one of the country's most prominent evangelicals, says the targeting of conservative groups by the Internal Revenue Service included two of his ministries.

"I am bringing this to your attention because I believe that someone in the administration was targeting and attempting to intimidate us," Graham wrote in a letter Tuesday to President Barack Obama. The evangelical leader is the son of famed evangelist Billy Graham.

Graham said the IRS contacted the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, a North Carolina-based ministry, after it ran newspaper ads in that state in April encouraging support for an amendment against same-sex marriage. The group also bought newspaper ads in November encouraging Christians to vote for candidates who oppose same-sex marriage, support Israel and "base their decisions on biblical principles."

Graham said the ads were purchased by funds donated by "friends of our ministry."

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In September, the IRS informed the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and Samaritan's Purse, an international aid group, that it would review the groups' records for the tax year ending in 2010, according to Graham. IRS agents conducted the review in October, Graham said.

The organizations, both of which are run by Graham, later received notice that they remain eligible for federal tax exemptions, he said.

"I do not believe the IRS audits of our two organizations last year is a coincidence - or justifiable," Graham said in the letter to Obama.

The IRS did not immediately respond to CNN's request for comment. The agency has acknowledged that it gave extra scrutiny to tea party groups applying for federal tax exemptions. The Treasury Department's inspector general said in a report that the IRS' use of "inappropriate criteria"  ended in May 2012.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Obama said Tuesday that he has directed Treasury Secretary Jack Lew to hold IRS employees accountable for "these failures."

"But regardless of how this conduct was allowed to take place, the bottom line is, it was wrong," Obama said.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Barack Obama • Billy Graham • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (1,354 Responses)
  1. Portland tony

    "The power to tax is the power to destroy." John Marshall (Supreme Court)

    May 15, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      No contribution, no rights. truth fundamental.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Right, truth ism fundamental and everything but still trying to get info on the itch...?

      May 15, 2013 at 8:14 pm |
  2. Milton Hearst

    For Satan always finds some mischief still for idle hands to do.
    Isaac Watts

    May 15, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      God delights in death and despair. And baby killing. Loves killing the babies.
      ~ab

      May 15, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
    • Apollo

      I've always been quite kind to everyone but no one talks about me anymore. (heavy sigh)

      May 15, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
    • Bob

      I guess we haven't named a spaceship for you in a while, Apollo. Sorry, dude. I did meet a great dog named "Apollo" though.

      Cheers.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
  3. Apple Bush

    And now we breath....allow yourself to listen to everything around you.....no judgments......just listen and breath you heart breath...

    May 15, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      ...sorry.....and drink of the goat urine deeply.....and now feel the hairs on top of your head....

      May 15, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • TigerP1ss

      Is your coffee really that bad?

      May 15, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Islamabot spikes the coffee with goat-urine ism. ha ha I says and he just laughs and keeps on a-typing.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
  4. A sermon by Billy Graham

    How do you go to heaven? Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life” [John 14:6]. The Bible says, “There is [no] other name . . . given among men, whereby we must be saved” [Acts 4:12]. You can’t get there except through Christ. The Bible says it’s a narrow road–very narrow, Jesus said. “Except [you] repent, [you] shall . . . likewise perish” [Luke 13:3]. Has there ever been a moment in your life when you really turned from sin to God? Has there ever been a moment when you really received Christ into your heart? “[For] as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” [John 1:12].

    May 15, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      A sermon by Apple Bush

      Ooh kitty hey kitty my kitty you
      Koo ditty little kitty cow go moo
      Give a little money and I will play you a ditty
      Just like my Friday night kitty ditty doo

      May 15, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • sam

      Yaaaaay, bible quotes!!

      May 15, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • Colin

      I think I found Jesus once. I was 14 and had just found a Playboy under my father's pillow. The next 15 minutes were as close to paradise as I expect the human mind can get.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • tallulah13

      How do you go to heaven? Well, first you have to invent a heaven....

      May 15, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
    • sam

      Then you invent a special handshake and secret code that get you in.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • Livilla

      Bring on the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Who put he goat urine in the coffee again? ism.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I saw heaven in Vegas but my credit cards were maxed. True story.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      How many stars does it take to become a new and humongous earth? Sort of like atoms, the stars but only on a much grander scale of cosmologic dimensionality. Think about it. I do. Why not you? Or you? Or them on the fences? You see folks, all things knowable to us are nothing but atomic structures too infinitely small to be seen; any atom's singularly visible perspectives.

      May 15, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • sam stone

      more "blah, blah, blah" frrom the parrots

      May 16, 2013 at 7:42 am |
  5. Livilla

    Wah wah wah. i didn't notice this charlatan expressing any outrage when Shrub had the IRS targeting Episcopal parishes nationwide. Typical xian hypocrite.

    May 15, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Human resources

      Typical <>> hypocrite = politically incorrect

      May 15, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
  6. lionlylamb

    The kingdom domains of God and all of God's people quite possibly lives in places beyond one's perspective belief. Deeply entrenched inside our physical bodies beyond the cellular machines there are buildings quite similar to ours but at a very small scale. Luke 17:21 and 1 Corinthians 3:9 dare says it all! Put the rest of the Gospel on the shelf and let the dust settle. Seek first the kingdom domains of God as it is also written but many cannot search for they are blinded by science!

    May 15, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • The Short Disastrous NASCAR Career of Cluckles the Boneless Chicken

      Wow, the two most unreadable posters on the Belief Blog sing a duet.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Colin

      @Lionlylamb and ISLAM etc. Please kill yourselves. Just,....please kill yourselves.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Time Ministers to Life's Oracles, "Dr. Who"?

      May 15, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
    • mama k

      Oh my. No, Cluckles the Quartet of Delirium is not complete without faith and the Austintatious one.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
  7. Colin

    You have to love Christians, they are SO superst.itious. I am sitting in a plane at 30,000 feet posting these comments. We are experiencing bad turbulance and the woman beside me asked me to stop (we had spoken earlier about what I was doing).

    I guess (i) she must think her god is an utter bas.tard if she worries that he would bring down a plane full of innocent people just to smite me; and (ii) why would he have to wait until I was "vulnerable" at 30,000 feet. He is all powerful and can smite me at any time.

    Oh well, contradictions number 10,312 and 10,313 of the Christian sky-fairy cult.

    May 15, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Yeah, if one believes in global warming we'll just have to get used to more turbulence; but why deal with reality when we still have superst/b>itions to cling to.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Colin, please tell the mentally ill person beside you to fuck off for me.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • Wondering

      Why is she reading your work anyway? How nosey is that?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
    • ..

      Rachel?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • It's such a shame the Romans didn't have enough lions

      I was once stuck next to a Southern Baptist pastor who absolutely would not stop pestering me about Jeeebus after numerous polite attempts to ask him to stop. I had to get very blunt with him to get him to desist, after which he mumbled about persecution. I had never once mention any view on the subject.

      Very obnoxious. I would far rather have a morbidly obese person next to me oozing all over my space for a 24 hour flight than another evangelical like that dingbat.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • MAYDAY! MAYDAY!

      COLIN! COLIN! Come in Colin!

      Oh no! God got pissed at Colin and shook the plane apart, killing everyone to make his point (He does that a lot in the Bible)!

      Colin could have been saved by Jesus (or a parachute), but instead he is plummeting earthward as if he was a boneless chicken named Cluckles!

      Poor Colin! He should have listened to the church lady.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • Colin

      MAYDAY indeed. Fortunately, Newton's theory of gravitation, like Darwin's theory of evolution, is "just a theory" so there is no proof my 9.8 M/S/S fall from 30,000 feet will prove fatal.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • ..

      Colin try to stay above Rachel (hope she is ample) always nice to have someone break your fall.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • Saraswati

      What you wrote, Chad, was

      "- and as a follow on question.. do you seriously think you can make a case, in the face of overwhelming data against, that atheists are primarily anti-Christian?

      May 16, 2013 at 3:30 pm | Report abuse |
      Chad
      should have read "that atheists are not primarily anti-Christian"

      May 16, 2013 at 3:31 pm | Report abuse |"

      You also acknowledged, rightly, that all the data you were looking at was from this board and now, when called out, want to argue that your only point is about this board, in stark contrast to the above and the other times you've made similar claims. The problem is that claiming this now this defeats the entire point you want to make about how special Christianity is (and makes your act of raising that issue completely random). If Christianity were that special your argument would not only apply to atheists who grew up with Christianity, live in Christian countires, are threatened threatened by Christians and are in conversation almost soley with Christians. It would apply to all atheists, which is really what you've been claiming all along. You can't have it both ways.

      May 17, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • .Science

      Sara.........does Chad understand......Laws of Association ?

      Interesting .

      May 17, 2013 at 10:57 am |
  8. Colin

    Can any Christian answer a question for me? After the world did not end with the coming of the "Son of Man" within the lives of Jesus' apostles, as Jesus predicted, and it became clear that Jesus was wrong on such a fundamental level, why do you still believe he is a god?

    And when Saint PAul made the same mistake, why is his theology not dismissed?

    May 15, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
    • Wondering

      When Jesus at the fig tree stated clearly and unequivocally that prayer would work without fail as you ask it, which it certainly does not, not at all, why do people still believe him?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • fred

      Jesus has never been proven wrong. I am sure you have read the apologetics on the typical verses in question so there is no sense repeating them. The interpretation he was wrong in these verses is also in conflict with other statements Jesus made regarding the end of days (i.e. no one knows the time but the father and the end of days will come after the gospel has been preached to the whole world).

      May 15, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • RamblinMan

      I think it is telling that the early Christians did wait and count the days and years, and then.....when it was clear that everyone in that "generation" was dead, THAT'S WHEN THEY WROTE THE GOSPELS.
      Get it?
      They tear out their hair in despair over teh definite failure of their Jebus, and then write or re-write the gospels at that moment giving the movement a huge revival to bring everyone back.

      Most people couldn't read. Those who could were mostly Jews and wealthy Roman citizens.
      Anything to be found in the gospels from that moment on would include a lot of dancing around to explain away the utter failure of their god to float down and destroy their enemies.
      Those who thought Jesus was coming back had some 'splainin' to do, I'm sure.

      I think something like this is why the earliest gospels were from so long after the supposed events took place.
      Once everyone involved has died from old age, anyone could write what they wanted, insert a line or paragraph, change a word, and no one was left who could call them a liar.

      But as to what sort of ass-covering explanations a Christian would have, I don't know.
      When I was a Christian, I put this clear failure down to some mysterious misunderstanding or mistranslation of the original text, like maybe Jesus said it different and they wrote it down wrong, or the old nonsense about a day being a thousand years. It didn't matter because doubts like that don't come up in church or bible study, and if you asked a pastor they'd tell you something to shut you up and make you go away.
      Like saying Jesus was just talking about something else, like Lazarus who was supposed to already be immortal because he was already raised from that tomb so basically that one zombie would never die and Jesus could take however long he wanted, millions of years if he wanted. Whatever.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Jvc

      It is stated many places in the bible that Jesus is in fact God. God made himself into man to come to this earth to die for all of our sins. If you question the validity of the bible, there have been MANY artifacts found to stand by many of scriptures written. As stated in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life". It is hard sometimes to think of the trinity of The father, The son and the holy spirit because God is all powerful and is all three. He gave us all a free gift of his Grace and died for us so that we may have everlasting life. With this belief we are saved and will live with him forever when our bodies die as long as we accept him and what he did for us. Such a small thing to ask of us...after the huge thing he did for us.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Colin

      Actually, fred, he has. The passage you cite, though, has an interesting history.

      The passage is in Matthew. Jesus is talking about the imminent coming of the end of the World. He admonishes his apostles to be prepared because the last day would be any day now, but that nobody knows exactly when: "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

      The problem for Christians is that this passage was written before Jesus had been elevated in Christianity to be a part of the Holy Trinity. That would not happen for about a generation after MAtthew was composed, and the notion remained contraversial for cneturies in Christianity.

      Many centuries later however, after Jesus was firmly entrenched as a part of the Christian god, this passage became problematic for many Christian scribes, as it made no sense that Jesus could be a part of an all-knowing god and yet not know when the end of times was coming. So, a Medieval scribe simply deleted the words “or the Son” from the passage. This sanitized version of Matthew’s Gospel was the one used by the compilers of the King James Bible, which is why it the words “or the Son” do not appear in this quote from Jesus in many English translations of the Gospel of Matthew today.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
    • A Conversation

      Colin...I'll take the bait...but with a couple of conditions. First, the reference to "son of man" is made many times by Jesus–which one specifically are you referring to (give me the specific verse(s))–I'm not going to guess for you. Second, I'll do this if it isn't a waste of my time–are you asking to because you want to belittle me, call me a christard, tell me I'm stupid, ridicule me for my belief in a sky-fairy? If so, we're done. If you want a real debate, I'll play long. Let me know.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Bongo

      Jvc, I guess you'd better hurry up and die, then. It's such a small thing for you to do compared to eternal bliss, right?
      Why suffer here when you could be there?
      The early Christians committed so much suicide the early Church had to specifically prohibit it despite there being nothing barring it in the bible.
      What if those suicidal maniacs are the True Christians and you guys are just doing it wrong?
      Wouldn't that explain why your prayers don't work and Jesus never shows up and why your life is full of suffering?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • Colin

      @ JVC. Not quite that simple, I'm afraid.

      In the historical context in which Christianity arose, it found itself in the unusual position that every single book in the Bible, both the Tanaka, or “Old Testament,” and the New Testament were written well before the Christian god was fully developed.

      The Christian god is, of course, the Holy Trinity – God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit – thee gods in one. But, it was only around the time that John was written (about 95 C.E.) that Jesus had been elevated to the status of a god in many Christians’ minds and the matter was still very controversial. The Holy Spirit had still not been added to the mix – and would not be definitively so added until a few centuries later.

      This gaping hole made at least one medieval biblical transcriber uncomfortable, and he changed the First Epistle of John to include a specific reference to the Holy Trinity. The forged passage is now known as the “Comma Johanneum.” It states “there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.” It does not appear in any manuscript of the First Epistle of John until the 1400s. However, because it was in the manuscript that was used to create the King James Version of the Bible, it appears in many English translations today.

      As its fraudulent origins are now generally accepted, many modern versions of the Bible exclude the passage, while others include it with a footnote pointing out its dubious authenticity.

      Tellingly, there is no other reference to the Holy Trinity anywhere in the entire Bible. The Christian god is absent from the Bible for the simple reason that he postdates it. Any reference to “God” in the Bible is to the Jewish god. It is remarkable how few Christians are aware of this seemingly material theological fact. If the Bible was written (or at least inspired) by the Christian god, one would think that he would have at least merited a mention!

      May 15, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • Colin

      @ A conversation. Let's start with (Matthew 24:29-34).

      "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.

      Note the last sentence.

      Likewise in Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”;

      Similarly, in Mark, “Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Mark 13:30-31);

      “He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power." (Mark 9:1);

      And then there is Luke "Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27).

      May 15, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • Jvc

      Bongo killing yourself is not the answer. However there is no reason why you can't make your own happiness on this earth that God has given to you. I can wait for eternity because I know it is there. I enjoy my life now, and I look forward to my future with the Lord! Nothing wrong with that is there? What do you have to look forward to ? Now? Tomorrow? That isn't God's plan and it's not mine. I'm happy here and will be happier with him. The earth is a beautiful place look around you...

      May 15, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • Science

      Hey is that you austin ...................fred is up there...................how far is that red horn-y thing up your ass. ?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • Colin

      @A Conversation. Given that 45 minutes have passed w/out response, I will assume our discourse is concluded.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Because if Jesus was wrong, they don't get to go to heaven when they die. They'll just die and be gone, and won't be special at all!

      May 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • A Conversation

      Colin..sorry, got pulled aside...you didn't respond to my second request.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
    • Colin

      @ A Conversation. Oh dear God! Ok, I promise not to call you any nasty names.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • fred

      Thanks, for that information. When I get a chance I will look into the manuscripts that exclude the Son and see if it makes a bit more sense.
      Why would the Son not know? If we go to the cross we see Jesus did not know what it felt like to be forsaken by the Father. We are told this was because sin separates us from God and Jesus took on the sins of the world. The pain of eternal separation was taken on by Jesus. He could not know duration at the moment otherwise it would not have eternal nature (i.e. if you know it is really only 3 days it is not the same torment). Clearly the Son does not know everything from our construct of time. That really does not change anything as to the topic of End times. Omitting the Son from the verse does not change anything as the point is the same "no one but the Father knows"

      May 15, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
    • A Conversation

      You mock the request, but you can't possibly deny that it happens all the time...frankly, I don't want to be a part of it anymore. I'm willing to debate, but I won't participate in some childish spat. As it is, I'll take you at your word. Give me a few minutes and I'll be back with a substantive response.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
    • Colin

      We r descending, so I suggest u hurry, or I will be off line for about 30 mins.

      May 15, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • A Conversation

      O.k. based on your original post, and the verses you cite, you're clearly focused on the word "generation." If I'm wrong, just clarify, but I'll continue on that premise. The short answer is that "generation" here means the generation of the Jews–their existence, not a particular period of time. The verses are in furtherance of the writings in Daniel, and the context therefore suggests that Jesus was talking about a much later time, not, say, 40 years later.

      May 15, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • Colin

      Npot so. That term appears in two quotes. What about where he clearly promises that those standing there will see the end of times?

      May 15, 2013 at 8:36 pm |
    • A Conversation

      Its a good question, but to start, Its two different conversations so the context changes. What I've studied in the past is that this second verse (which actually precedes the first one we discussed), refers to the Transfiguration found at Mat. 17 – which, coincidently or not, comes right after this verse. This is somewhat enhanced by the fact that the parallel passages (Luke 9:27, Mark 9:1) are each immediately followed by the account of the transfiguration account too.

      May 15, 2013 at 8:55 pm |
    • GrimBeeper

      "Oh, that word means something totally different because you have discovered how bad it really looks to anyone who knows how to read."
      generation does not mean generation?
      Just like "fulfill" doesn't really mean "fulfill" and..
      "Day" doesn't mean 24 hours but "a thousand years" and not a billion or a trillion.
      "Kill" doesn't mean "kill"
      "Idol" doesn't mean "Idol"
      "false witness" doesn't mean lying
      "adultery" doesn't mean adultery
      "slave" doesn't mean "slave"
      "sodomy" doesn't mean sodomy
      "life" means whatever
      "death" means whatever
      And on and on....
      Nothing is as it is written, it never means what it says, everything must be interpreted by a believer and they can do it in any way they want, it means something else that would explain everything away...ALWAYS.

      May 16, 2013 at 12:37 am |
    • A Conversation

      @GrimBeeper...what are you talking about? You are trying to equate the 2013 English language to year 0 greek, hebrew, latin, and aramaic (sp?). You want to examine words totally out of context. Your analysis is childish.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
  9. HeavenSent

    Our true Lord and Father knows every aspect of you and wants only for you to accept His love. Prideful atheists, open your hearts to Jesus' Truth. My camel-toe gives change but the lever is sticky. Jesus will forgive you if you ask and of course, sin no more.

    Amen.

    May 15, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • Prideful atheist

      My finger is in my nose and I can't come to the phone right now leave a message at the beep...

      May 15, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • Another fake person

      Stop talking about camel dung

      May 15, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
  10. Colin

    Can anybody think of a more abhorent act than a father selling his own daughter into slavery? I wonder what the Bible would say about that?

    "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11)

    May 15, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • Chad

      worse than starving to death?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • Straw man

      I assume you are using the big black sleeping pill as a tool to accuse a religious group you don't like of child slavery...straw man argument...or red herring. I just can't decide..maybe it's both.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Isn't choosing between starvation and slavery making a relative moral decision? Whatever happened to absolute morals? And why would a loving god not prevent the conditions that might require an obedient follower to sell his children?

      May 15, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Chad

      @HotAirAce "Isn't choosing between starvation and slavery making a relative moral decision? Whatever happened to absolute morals?
      @Chad "you'll have to explain, I dont see that"

      @HotAirAce "I And why would a loving god not prevent the conditions that might require an obedient follower to sell his children?"
      @Chad "See Genesis 3, the fall of man.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      The fall of man? Well, I guess some of us must have gotten on our feet again. What does it take to get a believer to walk on his own, anyway?

      May 15, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
    • sam stone

      Chad "See Genesis 3, the fall of man.

      Wow, quotes from a book that has been fvcked with more than san diego streetwalker when the fleet is in....

      Very impressive, chard

      May 16, 2013 at 7:45 am |
    • mama k

      Oh my, Sam – that almost made coffee come through my nose. OK I wrote that one down – I just may need that some day – lol.

      May 16, 2013 at 7:54 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Perfect sam 🙂

      May 16, 2013 at 8:03 am |
    • Chad

      @sam stone

      A. Your comment is incredibly inappropriate.
      B. Your comment is incredibly inaccurate.

      Your anger at God is very apparent.. what happened that created that in you?

      May 16, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      Inappropriate, yeah.
      Inaccurate, depends on what/how you measure.

      "Your anger at God is very apparent.. "

      A bit presumptuous, no? Theists seem to want to bootstrap belief where none exists, if there is anger, which is not established, then the likely target of that anger would more appropriately be religion or religious believers.
      Why do Theists often (I won't claim always, as some might) do this?

      May 16, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Chad

      @sam stone "Wow, quotes from a book that has been fvcked with more than san diego streetwalker when the fleet is in....
      Very impressive, chard

      @ME II "Inaccurate, depends on what/how you measure."
      @Chad "I'm aware of perhaps 2 passages that some scholars believe may be additions on the original manuscript.
      please do attempt to reconcile yours and sams statement with reality for us..

      ====
      @Chad "Your anger at God is very apparent.. "
      @ME II "A bit presumptuous, no? Theists seem to want to bootstrap belief where none exists, if there is anger, which is not established, then the likely target of that anger would more appropriately be religion or religious believers.
      Why do Theists often (I won't claim always, as some might) do this?"

      @Chad "LOL
      I included sams original post to show the disparity between your claim and the reality..

      May 16, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • .

      Gospel of Chad:
      (Updated list derived from history of Chad conversations.)

      Atheism:
      1. All atheists agree with everything Stephen Hawking or Richard Dawkins say, even if it is unrelated to atheism. Hawking and Dawkins disagree on free will, however, but you should ignore this conflict or any atheist who says they disagree.
      2. All atheists agree with one another on everything even if it has nothing to do with atheism. See #1 for models from which you can derive all their beliefs.
      3. The definition of atheist includes anything that any atheist I disagree with believes or anything I feel like tossing in there. Ignore any definitions in pesky places like dictionaries and philosophical encyclopedias.
      4. If one atheist somewhere on the internet said something, then, since all atheists agree with him/her, I can use that randomly selected example as an argument to address all other atheists.
      5. The definition of atheism includes not just materialism but strict deterministic materialism. Non-believers who might be Buddhists, believe in probabilistic physics, see consciousness as prior to the physical world, believe in, say, witchcraft aren’t really atheists.
      6. No atheist has ever read the bible. I mean, obviously, they’d be Christians if they had, right? OK, so a few have proven to me – OK, multiple times – that they have read the bible. See #11 (just lie).

      Free will:
      7. All people who use the term “free will” really mean the same exact thing by that term, which matches my personal use of the term “free will” (unless backed into a corner, then I just declare all other meanings irrelevant)
      8. Fatalism and determinism are the same thing. It has been pointed out to me that historically these terms have been used with different meanings, but I find it more convenient to make up my own definitions, as with atheism and free will.

      In fact, I brilliantly argued “If a person is a determinist, how in the world does deterrence even come into the picture? Determinists believe in an ever marching set of deterministic outcomes based on an existing set of antecedent conditions. Those conditions march back to the origin of the universe, no way to change the past, so no way to change the future. (On April 17, 2013 at 6:20 pm)

      After reading a bit more about fatalism and determinism I decided to change my tune to a claim that determinism leads to fatalism (and to pretend this was what I was saying all along). I’m sticking to reading easy pop philosophers, though, and selective websites on the topic as anything more complex makes my head hurt. I have read snippets from a couple of websites now so that ought to put me on par with people who’ve read dozens of books on the topic, understand neurobiology and have written on both the philosophical and cultural aspects of free will and people’s belief in the topic. Oh, yeah, I know what I’m talking about!

      9. A determinist cannot believe that humans can change. This would, of course, mean that nothing can change. Which would mean…oh…crud…better put my head back up my ass.
      10. A determinist cannot believe in punishing people for crimes. This is because…well…it doesn’t matter. Just keep repeating it.

      Telling lies:
      11. It is ethical to lie so long as it promotes Christian beliefs.
      12. Speaking of telling lies, a really good way to do this is to rephrase what your opponent says and then keep repeating the misquote in hopes that he or she will get bored and leave your lie as the last statement. Then you win. You can do this either by rewording as a supposed paraphrase or pulling lines out of context and reordering them. God really loves this and gives you extra endurance to sit at the computer all day and keep repeating it.
      13. One way to use this super endurance to your advantage is to keep posting the same questions over and over again even after they’ve been answered 50 times. Just pretend they haven’t been answered and act self-righteous about it. It’s really cool if you can ask this same thing on multiple threads and then claim it was never answered forcing people to waste time on the same thing over and over and over.
      14. In particular don’t forget that whatever someone says you can respond with “What investigation have you done into…”. Especially good is to ask what investigation was done into the truth of the God of Israel. When the non-Christian comes back to ask how much research you did to prove other gods aren’t real answer “I don’t need to do any because I proved the God of Israel is real and that negates all other gods”. When asked how you proved that repeat the words “empty tomb” over and over until divine light shines on the souls of the heathens.
      15. When they refuse to play your game or you don’t like the answer add some sarcasm, but use an emoticon to soften it so they’ll know your snide remarks are all in good fun.
      16. Consider asking completely nonsensical questions that can’t even be understood, let alone answered. Best yet include something the person didn’t say as a premise. For example, you might ask an atheist opponent “You say you like murdering small children on Wednesdays, could you explain how this fits with your beliefs about string theory?” Then when your question is ignored accuse the person of avoidance and make up wild hypotheses as to why they are avoiding you.
      17. Above all else keep asking questions while avoiding answering any yourself.

      Science, math and psychology:
      18. If one scientist says something that backs me, then I can assume all scientists agree with that statement.
      19. If atheist scientists say something, even if it is the view of the majority of people in that science, it should be ignored. See #11.
      20. Atheists are ruled by confirmation bias. I am free of it – it’s just great luck that everything I read and all the “data” around me confirm my strong religious convictions. See #19 on ignoring anything else.
      21. Infinity = all finite numbers according to the Chad. Thirty or forty years of constraint is the same as eternal torment.
      22. Rehabilitation and deterrence are the same thing. Yep…convincing a drug addict not to use drugs in case they are shot dead and getting them off the addiction would be the same by my wondrous Chad logic.

      General truths about the CNN belief blog:
      23. All non-believers are, by definition, idiots so you can use illogical arguments and they’ll just fall for it.
      24. If I post a quote that has a few key words in it from our discussion I can claim it backs my point even if it actually says the exact opposite thing from what I’m claiming. Atheists, as mentioned above, are too dumb to notice. Best yet is to post a link or reference a book which actually says the opposite of what I’m saying and just assume no one will look at it.
      25. There is a huge mass of fence sitters out there who are eagerly reading CNN blog comments in order to decide whether or not to believe in God.
      26. I will personally save all those mentioned in # 25 because I, Chad, am super smart. I know this because I get away with all the above mentioned lies and manipulations. Sometimes people think they are pointing these things out but they really aren’t. Or the stupid atheist masses aren’t reading them anyway.
      27. Phrase everything as if it’s a lecture so you look like you know what you’re talking about. See #23 about atheists being idiots and #24 about people not reading anything you post you’ll see that the silly atheists will fall for it every time. In particular they won’t look back to the earlier part of the discussion to see how I’m contradicting myself. This is very well aided by another tactic:
      28. As soon as you make an ass of yourself break the conversation into a new thread. That way all the newcomers (see #25 on how they are waiting to have their souls saved) will not bother to read back and see how ignorant you are.
      29. If someone points out to you that citing Wikipedia is not an adequate source for the discussion at hand you can always find a good undergraduate philosophy paper to cite instead.
      30. Never question another Christian no matter how incorrect or offensive their position.
      31. Just remember that you can define a term any way you want and you are always right!

      May 16, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • Science

      Chad...................have you read about the red devil too ?

      May 16, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      @ME II "Inaccurate, depends on what/how you measure."
      @Chad "I'm aware of perhaps 2 passages that some scholars believe may be additions on the original manuscript.
      please do attempt to reconcile yours and sams statement with reality for us.."

      "John Mill estimated the number of variations in the New Testament text at 30,000[1] based on 'nearly 100 manuscripts.'[2] Eberhard Nestle estimated this number as 150,000–200,000 variants.[3] Bart D. Ehrman has estimated that there are 'between 200,000–400,000 variants [in] several million pages of manuscripts.'[4]"
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_variants_in_the_New_Testament)

      And before you trot out the, 'oh those variants aren't meaningful' argument, I'll say that I did not claime they were. I did however say that it "depends on what/how you measure."

      ====
      "LOL
      I included sams original post to show the disparity between your claim and the reality.."

      Huh? What are you talking about? @Sam Stone did not say anything in that quote about your GOI. He only stated that the Bible had been fvcked with.
      You equated that with a hatred of God, which would be very difficult if one does not exist.

      "Your anger at God is very apparent.."

      Technically, this is a begging-the-question fallacy as it assumes the existence of God.

      May 16, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      p.s. You might make the case for Sam Stone's anger being apparent. But to affix the target of God to his anger is presumptuous and arrogant.

      May 16, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Chard,

      Atheists aren't angry at your nonexistent god. They are angry at the idiocy of the religious people and the things that they are doing to ruin this world of ours.

      May 16, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • ME II

      Correction:
      You equated that with a anger at God, which would be very difficult if one does not exist.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Chad

      "John Mill estimated the number of variations in the New Testament text at 30,000[1] based on 'nearly 100 manuscripts.'[2] Eberhard Nestle estimated this number as 150,000–200,000 variants.[3] Bart D. Ehrman has estimated that there are 'between 200,000–400,000 variants [in] several million pages of manuscripts.'[4]"
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_variants_in_the_New_Testament)

      =>LOL
      grammar, spelling, punctuation 🙂

      none of that changes any doctrine, which is what @sam stone is saying cant be trusted due to the "changes"

      right?

      =========
      @ME II "And before you trot out the, 'oh those variants aren't meaningful' argument, I'll say that I did not claime they were. I did however say that it "depends on what/how you measure."
      @Chad "nice dodge
      ====
      @ME II "You equated that with a hatred of God, which would be very difficult if one does not exist. "Your anger at God is very apparent.."
      @Chad "
      atheists in this board in any case, exhibit an irrational and completely out of proportion anger/hatred of anyone expressing a belief that the God of Israel is real. That is a fact.

      atheists in this board in any case do not exhibit the same degree of anger/hatred at people expressing a belief that Islam is real, or Baha'i is real, or Hinduism is real, or whatever. That is a fact.

      Fear is the emotion that underlies anger/hatred. That is a fact.

      So, what is the source of the fear? Why are atheists, on this board at least, overwhelmingly afraid of Christians, and not Muslims for example?

      Common sense answer: the fear is that the God of Israel is real. You arent afraid of the others, because you know they arent real.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "You equated that with a anger at God, which would be very difficult if one does not exist."

      =>very true, if atheists were truly convinced that God doesnt exist, your anger would be very difficult to explain..

      May 16, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • Science

      Chad are you one of those domesday people ?...........

      May 16, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Saraswati

      LOL, let's add basic US demographics as yet another topic Chad doesn't understand (hint: US Christians at almost 80 percent, Muslims less than 2%...and most on this US news site are US citizens or residents. ) Hmmm...or does he want Atheists to debate Islam on a cnn blogwith themselves? Add to that the fact that 8 out of 10 of the current topics on this bog are Christian-centric exactly what does Chad expect to see? Unless he's got some hard stats showing atheists prefer muslims to Christians (which is not going to exist) it looks like he's just pulling stuff out of his ass as usual.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, Most believers who post here are christian, most articles here pertain to the christian faith, so it makes sense that most discussion is about christianity. Your paranoia is unfounded.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad

      LOL,
      I think he said 'the Bible', not "doctrine". 🙂

      ======
      "Common sense answer: the fear is that the God of Israel is real. You arent afraid of the others, because you know they arent real."

      LOL, what a load of BS... sorry speculation and conjecture.

      "irrational and completely out of proportion"
      " do not exhibit same degree of anger/hatred at people expressing a belief that Islam is real, or Baha'i is real, or Hinduism is real, or whatever."

      opinion. There are significantly fewer assertions about non-christian religions. Those asserttions are significantly less adamant. Those beliefs are significantly less worrisome in the US, compared to Christianity, due to the likelihood that said beliefs will impact legislation.

      Different levels of reaction are rational when considered in relation to the potential levels of impact on typical person on this site, i.e. US.

      "Fear is the emotion that underlies anger/hatred. That is a fact."

      Really? Is all anger/hatred based on fear and fear alone? Please, cite your references.

      "overwhelmingly afraid of Christians"

      LOL, Chad you're a riot!

      "very true, if atheists were truly convinced that God doesnt exist, your anger would be very difficult to explain.."

      Again, you're not listening.
      Any anger that you may think exists, is anger at the believers or their actions, not the supposed god they claim exists.

      Your logic is simply ridiculous.

      Peace

      May 16, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @ME II

      "Really? Is all anger/hatred based on fear and fear alone? Please, cite your references."
      - Star Wars

      May 16, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Chad

      @Saraswati

      =>The cnn blogs with muslim or other faith topics are lightly trafficked by atheists, with a really marked lack of the animosity against that faith that is exhibited against Christian topic posts. The difference in the degree of ad-hominem attacks in other faith topics vs Christian faith post is nothing short of astonishing.

      that's just the fact.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      False, this "fact" that you keep stating is clearly just your opinion and you're just sad that when a christian article pops up and atheists use it as a soapbox to point out why christianity is dumb, you think it's because we are "actively rebelling against god"

      Since you only base things off of opinion and assumption and we all know you are a disingenuous liar, what you say is nothing more than word vomit.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • Chad

      @Chad "Fear is the emotion that underlies anger/hatred. That is a fact."

      @ME II "Really? Is all anger/hatred based on fear and fear alone? Please, cite your references."

      @Chad "very basic stuff, psychology 101..

      Underlying anger is fear. The most common fear is not feeling in control of a person or event. Anger is an attempt to control one’s own world by attempting to control the actions of others. To reduce fear or anxiety and to get the person to behave “properly,” anger is employed. After all, once the person is under your control, you feel better.

      Anger can be expressed either directly through “lashing out” or indirectly through “pas sive-aggressive” behavior. With pas sive-aggressive behavior, individuals punish others by being belligerent, not responding, pouting, or simply running away. Active anger is obvious: you simply lose control and “explode” onto someone with a verbal or physical attack.

      http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/getting-anger-and-hostility-under-control/all/1/

      ==
      Anger is perhaps the most troublesome and challenging emotion to tackle ther apeutically. Since most therapists today see anger or rage as symptoms of underlying fear, hurt or shame, there is a tendency to de-emphasize the importance and primacy of anger in favor of focusing on that which secondarily fuels it. This is a serious ther apeutic mistake in my opinion. A monumental and costly failure of contemporary psychotherapy.

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200901/the-primacy-anger-problems

      May 16, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Chad, that's just another example of your poor reasoning and tendency to confirmation bias. You WANT to believe that there's something special about your belief so you believe apriori that it's special in the minds of those that speak against its stupidity. In reality, you're far from the truth. The atheist response is in exact proportion to the religion represented and the beliefs asserted. Wehn muslims comment on these blogs, there is just as much response from atheists towards them as when christians comment; it's just that there's a lot more christians commenting here than muslims.

      But please, do carry on in your stupid and wrong opinions. It amuses me to see the degree to which your brain virus (religion) has blinded you to the facts of reality. Thanks for being such a great example of why a person should not be a christian. Keep up the great work!

      May 16, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • LOL!

      "challenging emotion to tackle ther apeutically. Since most therapists today see anger or rage as symptoms of underlying fear, hurt or shame, there is a tendency to de-emphasize the importance and primacy of anger in favor of focusing on that which secondarily fuels it. This is a serious ther apeutic mistake in my opinion. A monumental and costly failure of contemporary psychotherapy. "

      From the apa

      Anger is an emotion characterized by antagonism toward someone or something you feel has deliberately done you wrong.

      Anger can be a good thing. It can give you a way to express negative feelings, for example, or motivate you to find solutions to problem. Anger is a normal, usually healthy emotion we all experience. But when anger gets out of hand, it can cause problems at home and at work. There are ways you can get control of your anger, instead of letting it control you.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Chad

      Excellent example is
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/09/rainn-wilson-has-faith-in-life-after-the-office/

      I find only one attack on Bahai (our friend "reality"), the rest was attacks on Christianity..

      why?

      May 16, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Chad, you fvcking idiot. The people posting and commenting were christian.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • .

      "Chad, you fvcking idiot. The people posting and commenting were christian."

      It's just another great example of his deceitful way of posting to try and prove himself right to himself, even though the rest of us are laughing over his delusional reality. See the Gospel of Chad above.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Chad

      @Cpt. Obvious

      1. On any CNN religion blog with a Christian topic, there are scores of atheists claiming God doesnt exist, and excoriating believers for their stupidity.
      2. On a typical CNN religion blog with a NON-Christian topic, there is a marked lack of atheist presence, and a marked lack of the rhetoric and ad-hominem attacks characterizing their posts on blogs with Christian topics.

      hopefully that clears my point up for you.

      May 16, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, Examples of non-christian threads with no atheist posts?

      May 16, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Perhaps that is true, Chad, which proves MY point, that atheists are responding to whoever is talking. Christians are the ones usually putting forth ideas, and the atheists are responding.

      Why don't you run a little test, jackhole, and get a bunch of your buddies on here pretending to be muslims, and see if the atheists don't reply directly to the muslim bvll sh!t just as they would if those same people were on posting christian bvll sh!t?

      May 16, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Interesting, it took me all of 30 seconds to find I place on that same Bahai article where I myself wrote:

      "the fact remains they are still only somewhat more moderate in their religiously founded anti-gay beliefs. They like to come off as a bastion of tolerance and modernity, but corner anyone on this topic and you'll see them squirm."

      The entire Bahai population of the world is at most a few million, and most of them don't live in the US where we have fewer than 200,000 Bahai. Heck, a lot of people in the US don't even know or care who these people are or what they believe – and we know atheists and agnostics in the US know more about non-Christian religions than Christians do. But this a tiny religion that no rational person (Chad obviously excluded here) is hardly going to spend a lot of time arguing about. Not only do people have little familiarity with Bahai, but it isn't any sort threat to secular interests in the US and is frankly a least of all evils alternative in Iran where the local form of Islam is both corrupt and dangerous.

      Really, Chad, could you be anymore ignorant...You seem to be giving it your best shot here but try a little harder for us because this stuff is good material.

      This, folks, is what clinically significant extreme confirmation bias looks like in action. When a person can't make sense of something this simple you know there's a problem.

      May 16, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Chad

      @Saraswati "Interesting, it took me all of 30 seconds to find I place on that same Bahai article where I myself wrote"

      =>you mean, "interesting" in that there are literally hundreds of anti-Christian posts on Christian themed blogs, and a couple anti-Bahai posts on Bahai themed posts..

      – yes, that is interesting. Why is there such a disparity in atheist posting to non-Christian blogs?
      – and as a follow on question.. do you seriously think you can make a case, in the face of overwhelming data against, that atheists are primarily anti-Christian?

      May 16, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Chad

      should have read "that atheists are not primarily anti-Christian"

      May 16, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Chad wrote "On a typical CNN religion blog with a NON-Christian topic, there is a marked lack of atheist presence, and a marked lack of the rhetoric and ad-hominem attacks characterizing their posts on blogs with Christian topics."

      So that answers my question about whether he could get stupider.

      Since a very large proportion of argumentative posts are in response to other comments, the way to make these numbers at all meaningful would be to count the number of threads innitiated by Muslims and the number of responses by type compared to the number of comments innitiated by Christians and count those responses by type. You would have to further break down theinitial comments and all other initiating comments by whether they were themselves critical of another group (other religions, atheists, hom.ose.xuals), because the content of the comments that initiate responses is enormously significant. And this doesn't even begin with the added problem that people are more willing to speak on a topic they know well, and most US atheists are former Christians, not former Muslims.

      The very fact that Chad doesn't understand the complexities that would go into an analysis of this type speaks volumes of the simplicity of his world view.

      May 16, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Chad wrote ". do you seriously think you can make a case, in the face of overwhelming data against, that atheists are primarily anti-Christian?"

      lol, yeah, since the largest bulk of the world's atheists lives in China I kind of do. And yes, I have lived there so I'm dying to hear how much dumber he gets. We can talk about all those anti-Christian Ja'panese atheists next. Good stuff!

      Wow..idiot. Wow.

      May 16, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Rachel

      At least I have a worldview with a belief that I hang my hat on.

      May 16, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Science

      Flat on your back Rachael ?

      Numbebers Chad ?

      May 16, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Chad

      @saraswati

      first rule of holes, when you're in one, stop digging.

      Look at the Bahai blog, the looks like a slight majority of root posts are atheist-anti-Christian (only a few of the root posts are atheist-anti-Bahai, demonstrating that atheists dont really care about Bahai)

      Vast majority of posts overall are atheist-anti-Christian.

      So, Christians dont seem to care at all about Bahai, atheists only slightly more.
      However, atheists attack christians relentlessly.

      So, why are the atheist root posts overwhelmingly anti-Christian and not anti-Bahai?

      May 16, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Chad

      this is from an ATHEIST SITE.

      Although this is by no means true of all atheists or atheism itself, there is some validity behind the perception that atheists are anti-Christian and it should be taken seriously. There is no ignoring the fact that many atheist web sites and atheist books spend a great deal of time with the doctrines and beliefs which are specific to Christianity or, at the very least, to traditional forms of Western monotheism while at the same time ignoring other religions and more general theistic beliefs.

      http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/AntiChristian.htm

      May 16, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Colin...............watch out the RED SEA is about ready to part ???

      May 16, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Sciernce

      Hey Sara....................How the Magic Mirror of Ja-pan is created .

      May 16, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "very basic stuff, psychology 101.."

      I can quote mine too 🙂
      "Anger can be caused by both external and internal events. You could be angry at a specific person (Such as a coworker or supervisor) or event (a traffic jam, a canceled flight), or your anger could be caused by worrying or brooding about your personal problems. Memories of traumatic or enraging events can also trigger angry feelings."
      (http://www.apa.org/topics/anger/control.aspx?item=2)

      hmm.... "enraging events.."?

      May 16, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II

      => someone punches you in the face, that is anger you are experiencing, to be expected. Someone harmed you.

      Someone posts "The God of Israel is real" on a blog: a rabid reaction, full of anger and ad-hominem is a completely different story. That anger is resulting from fear that the poster might be right.

      Someone posts "bigfoot is real", the response is a bemused "whatever dude.." if there is any response at all.

      Every time you get punched in the face, you're going to be angry. What ever situation.
      NOT every time someone makes a claim about something that you dont believe in being true, causes you to be angry.

      why?

      May 16, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • Josh

      Chad, Regarding your post from the atheist website on the perception that atheists attack the Christian belief , it is possible that atheists find the Christian faith the most compelling to go after it. Nevertheless, you make a valid point!

      May 16, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, "Someone posts "bigfoot is real", the response is a bemused "whatever dude.." if there is any response at all."

      Generally those posts are sarcasm aimed at the believers but presuming there are people who believe in "big foot" they're not trying to get "In big foot we trust" on the currency, not trying to have the big foot equivalent of creationism taught in schools in preference to science, etc. etc.

      May 16, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • Chad

      A. What's wrong with teaching that atheism has no answer whatsoever for Origin of the universe, origin of life on earth, why the universe obeys laws and the fossil record and theism does?
      B. What ever you, dont count the number of anti-christian root posts by atheists on this blog.. You'll be depressed for weeks, or at least until you rationalize it somehow, 10 seconds or so...
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/16/end-times-for-doomsday-linked-radio-network/

      May 16, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Chad

      oh..
      and

      be sure to berate Muslims for being irrationally stupid believing in Allah..
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/16/my-take-what-tsarnaev-gets-wrong-about-islam/

      for some weird reason, I'm sure @saraswati has a good explanation., no one has done so yet on that thread..

      May 16, 2013 at 10:21 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Oh, and see if you can't snark a little more nastily, Chard. You're far too wimpy.

      What a little turd you are.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:26 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I don't hate Christians as a group. I just hate azzhole Christians like you, Chard.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad. There's nothing wrong with teaching that we don't know; what's wrong is teaching that if we don't know something that that is proof of a god. The foundation of the bible is incorrect, so why base one's life on something that is wrong or very unlikely? There is no evidence that a god exists. We don't know what happened before the first few nanoseconds of the Big Bang. We don't know how life actually formed but several experiments have shown organic material can be produced from the inorganic material and conditions at the time – so yes we don't know the specific but we know it happened and we know several ways it could have happened. None of that proves that a god did it or that the bible is correct after all.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, Is paranoia the new dance; I've noticed several posts from you and others saying that the posts are anti-christian. I think your talking points are showing.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:33 pm |
    • Chad

      " I think your talking points are showing."

      ->interesting defense.. "stop pointing out what we are doing!!!"

      May 16, 2013 at 10:40 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I don't see any Bahais acting like jackwits, Chard, but you act like one all the time. That's why you get smacked around by atheists, honey.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • The real Tom

      A. What's wrong with teaching that atheism has no answer whatsoever for Origin of the universe, origin of life on earth, why the universe obeys laws and the fossil record and theism does?

      What's wrong with it is that Christianity doesn't have any answers either, Chard, just beliefs. No evidence, no proof. Just faith.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, I have nothing to defend so I'm not sure what you mean; I've replied to what I consider your paranoia several times including to you. You're not making your point with comments like that.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Chad, you seem to have a difficult time with subtle differences between things like "atheists" and "US atheists" or "western atheists". Most of the worlds atheists don't live in countries where Christianity has much relevance, and most don't give a crap about Christianity. If you or any other dimwit you find online likes to refer to US atheists as "atheists" fine, but don't expect to be taken seriously.

      As for what people fear, those are generally things that are actually a real immediate threat to the wellbeing of themselves or others. I have no issues with most of the Christians I know because the ones I know aren't dangerous. Many atheists in the US, however, grew up in oppressive Christian homes and live in backwater places where the Christians are trying to replace real education with creationism and to ban large groups of people from adopting or marrying who they want. In those situation where you are someone who wants educated kids or is gay you have every reason in the world to fear your local Christian – you'd be an idiot not to. You'd equally be an idiot to waste time fearing bahai any more than someone in the US should worry about being trampled by elephants while walking throughtheforest. If you were in Iran the same would hold true for Islamas holds for Christianity in the US. But the point you somehow are missing is that we aren't in Iran. Really, I can't say it more clearly than that. If you don't get it I don't know that anyone canhelp you.

      None of this says anything whatsoever about how an atheist feels about Christianity vs. Islam. If you asked 1000 US atheists to choose to live in a predominantly Christian or predominantly Islamic country I guarantee you the majority, at this point in history, would choose a predominantly Christian country (go back in history and maybe different...whether "Christianity" or "modern Christians" are a threat are again different topics).

      But this is reality and that really isn't what you care about. What you care about is making some fake (and amazingly illogical) argument that Christianity is so super special that the non-believer fears it above all else because of it's super truthfulness. And to tryand do that you are picking a sample from a place in which there isn't currently anything else for a person to fear or have been oppressed by and there is no one much to argue with except Christians. It says not one thing about the intellectual position of that sample or about how they would feel if placed in a different part of the world.

      Look, you're just going to keep talking out of your ass because that's what you do. Go have yourself a charming life. You aren't capable of learning and you aren't even capable of recognizing your own ignorance. I hope you'll try one day and would love to believe you could change and grow into the kind of smart intellectual Christian I know well, but I sure as heck wouldn't put any money on it.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Chad

      @Chad "1. On any CNN religion blog with a Christian topic, there are scores of atheists claiming God doesnt exist, and excoriating believers for their stupidity.
      2. On a typical CNN religion blog with a NON-Christian topic, there is a marked lack of atheist presence, and a marked lack of the rhetoric and ad-hominem attacks characterizing their posts on blogs with Christian topics"

      @saraswati " If you or any other dimwit you find online likes to refer to US atheists as "atheists" fine,"

      @Chad "sorry.. you lost me.. what?"

      ========
      @saraswati "most don't give a crap about Christianity"
      @Chad "
      from: http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/AntiChristian.htm

      Although this is by no means true of all atheists or atheism itself, there is some validity behind the perception that atheists are anti-Christian and it should be taken seriously. There is no ignoring the fact that many atheist web sites and atheist books spend a great deal of time with the doctrines and beliefs which are specific to Christianity or, at the very least, to traditional forms of Western monotheism while at the same time ignoring other religions and more general theistic beliefs.

      I'm sorry.. you lost me.. what?

      ===
      I tend to fade out when I read all the rest of the ad-hominem in your posts.. was there anything real in the remainder besides that?

      May 16, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
    • Saraswati

      lol..if youresponded to my statement about the position of atheists outside western countries with a quote from someone who was actually...oh, I don't know...from OUTSIDE western countries you might be a little more convincing. Cline, btw, is a lit major so you are doing just as well finding actual experts as when you were back quoting undergrad papers. This guy's about as simple as you are. Great technique you have there, by the way, of quoting random non-experts off the internet. I think I had that cited in the Gospel of Chad.

      And still I stand by my position that no, you probably couldn't get any dumber.

      May 16, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
    • Chad

      @Saraswati "you seem to have a difficult time with subtle differences between things like "atheists" and "US atheists" or "western atheists". Most of the worlds atheists don't live in countries where Christianity has much relevance, and most don't give a crap about Christianity. If you or any other dimwit you find online likes to refer to US atheists as "atheists" fine, but don't expect to be taken seriously."

      @Chad 1. On any CNN religion blog with a Christian topic, there are scores of atheists claiming God doesnt exist, and excoriating believers for their stupidity.
      2. On a typical CNN religion blog with a NON-Christian topic, there is a marked lack of atheist presence, and a marked lack of the rhetoric and ad-hominem attacks characterizing their posts on blogs with Christian topics.

      ========
      When you tried to build a case that atheists arent predominately anti-Christian by appealing to the atheists, in China, you never bothered to notice that I specifically said the atheists on this blog..

      pretty basic mistake..

      ===
      then ad-hominem against the writer of the piece acknowledging that indeed atheists are predominately Christian..
      followed by another ad-hominem against me..

      about right?

      May 17, 2013 at 12:13 am |
  11. Colin

    I wonder if a gvernment based on "biblical principles" will include permanently disfiguring slaves to show they belong to you, as in the following "godly advice"

    "If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6)

    May 15, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • Chad

      an earring is "permanently disfiguring"?

      May 15, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • Colin

      @Chad – sort of missing the point a little, aren't you? The open support of slavery doesn't perturb you? Your post is a bit like John Wilkes Booth complaining that after he shot Lincoln, "at least I left by one of the designated exits."

      May 15, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • Chad

      Slavery of that time more akin to indentured servitude.. right?

      no social services back then, many people sold themselves/children to survive.

      question: in your view, what is the purpose of Gods acting in human history?

      May 15, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Colin

      Chad, no I do not accept that. Second, I do not believe "God acts in human history." I do not believe your god exists.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • ME II

      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
      (Lev 25)

      May 15, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II, @Colin

      Slavery of that time more akin to indentured servitude.. right?

      no social services back then, many people sold themselves/children to survive.

      question: what does Christian doctrine say is the purpose of Gods acting in human history?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "Slavery of that time more akin to indentured servitude.. right?"

      No, that does not appear to have always been the case, at least not according to those descriptions.

      "question: what does Christian doctrine say is the purpose of Gods acting in human history?"

      You obviously won't accept any answer we give, so just preach your sermon already.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Colin

      No, I do not accept that and, once again, I do not accept that your god acts at all. He does not exist.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      "Slavery of that time more akin to indentured servitude.. right?"
      got it ... so you can beat indentured servants

      May 15, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Chad

      @Colin "No, I do not accept that and, once again, I do not accept that your god acts at all. He does not exist."
      @Chad "A. Refusing to accept history isnt a good sign on your part.. consistent, but not good...
      B. One doesnt have to accept that God exists in order to answer the question:
      question: what does Christian doctrine say is the purpose of Gods acting in human history?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Jvc

      All these things you speak of in the old testament are God showing us Sin....he gave all of us free will and is up to us to do what is right or what is wrong. We will however ALL of us stand before him one day as he sits in the judgment seat. The old testament had some horrible things happen to people as there are still horrible things happening to people today. No it's not right and no God does not have to stop it. Satan is at work overtime....but one day it will be all over. Hopefully not too late for some. True studies into the bible from bible scholars is what you need. I myself just learn by going to church and studying the bible weekly. It is easy to take one sentence out of context and make it into something it is not. God instructs us to read our bibles daily....there is so much to learn from it and that is what most of it is...a learning process of what God considers sin and wrong from right and how he would like for us to live with him in eternity and how much he loves us.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • Bongo

      @Chad
      There is no Christian doctrine you fool!
      Don't you understand your own religion?
      Over 35,000 different "doctrines" and which one would you like to hear about today???????
      Anyone can interpret the Bible in ANY WAY and call themselves a Christian and call their personal beliefs a doctrine....
      ...and so your question is worthless.
      Seriously, all someone has to do is simply CLAIM (without proof or honesty) that they are a Christian and guess what?
      THEY ARE A CHRISTIAN.
      Anyone can make up their own doctrine. AND THEY DO.
      So which one was it that you wanted to hear again? Branch Davidian? Jonestown? St. Orthodox of the Humble Potato?
      Really, Chad, you are not very good at this. Your religion has no doctrine but whatever you want to say it is.
      That is also proof that there is no magical guarantee of every Christian having the same doctrine to follow.
      Proof that there are no moral absolutes. Proof that there is no inherent moral properties to anything.
      Chadfail

      May 15, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
  12. Chad

    @Colin "The atheist thinks and acts, the Christian hopes and prays."

    =>But we prayed to our God and posted a guard day and night to meet this threat. Nehemiah

    Judeo/Christian doctrine says we must do our part AND trust God.

    May 15, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Colin

      Chad,if those words were written in the Book of Nehemiah, they pre-date the first Christian by a few hundred years.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Sara.................what can't they understand ?................chad

      Hey Bobie and As-stin Chad/rachel l4h fred Robert Brown loony bethany kev bx fred topher etc etc All creationists and ID believers ........................

      Was the bible around back then .................bible thumpers ?

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

      Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

      Peace

      March 11, 2013 at 7:06 am | Report abuse |

      May 15, 2013 at 7:24 am | Report abuse |

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-beco

      Messed-Up Bible Stories – 2 – Adam and Eve
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRGnPIlclps&w=640&h=360]
      Evolving Genes Lead to Evolving Genes: Selection in European Populations of Genes Regulated by FOXP2

      Apr. 18, 2013 — Researchers have designed a method that can universally test for evolutionary adaption, or positive (Darwinian) selection, in any chosen set of genes, using re-sequencing data such as that generated by the 1000 Genomes Project. The method identifies gene sets that show evidence for positive selection in comparison with matched controls, and thus highlights genes for further functional studies.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418124905.htm

      Peace

      BedVrooooom.............and the red devil................not funny !

      May 15, 2013 at 10:54 am | Report abuse |
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/

      How did feathers evolve? – Carl Zimmer

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPLgfGX1I5Y&w=640&h=360]

      May 15, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • Chad

      so?

      May 15, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • Science

      The little red devil got you by the tail................chad/rachael ?

      May 15, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • Chad

      @Colin "if those words were written in the Book of Nehemiah, they pre-date the first Christian by a few hundred years."
      @Chad "so?"

      May 15, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • Colin

      @Chad – re-read my comment. How can a comment written hundreds of years before the first Christian existed by used to rebut a comment about Christians?

      May 15, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Chad

      @Colin " – re-read my comment. How can a comment written hundreds of years before the first Christian existed by used to rebut a comment about Christians?

      =>ah
      you didnt realize that Christians consider all of the Old Testament to be authentic?
      You'll be shocked to find out that the "Christian bible" contains Old and New Testament.. All of the Jewish law and prophets plus the NT gospels and letters..

      Here's the thing: the ONLY difference between a Christian and a Jew is that the Christian believes the Messiah has arrived, the Jew is still waiting. Early Christians worshiped God in synagogues along with other Jews.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, I think the point is the words were written before there were any christians. So even if christians have adopted the NT (and not all do especially in its entirety) it couldn't have referred to christians.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "you didnt realize that Christians consider all of the Old Testament to be authentic?..."

      Trying to be cute doesn't work to well for you.

      I think Collin was talking about today's Christians, not your supposed mystical ideal Christian.

      ....but you knew that...

      May 15, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • Colin

      @Chad – not quite. The Tanaka became the Old Testament, but AFTER the Jews had dropped a few later written myths that appeared in the Septuagint from the Tanaka. The Christians still have these stories in the Bible (at least the Catholics do). The Proetsants regard them as deuterocanonocial.

      The excluded/included texts are 1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), additions to Esther, and the stories of Susanna and Bel and the Dragon which are included in Daniel. Orthodox Old Testaments include these plus 1st and 2nd Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151 and 3rd Maccabees.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • Chad

      @colin

      so you did some reading and found out that Christians certainly accept the OT as authentic.

      and, as such, a source of doctrine, such as "trusting in the lord and posting a guard"
      doing our part, and trusting Him to do His..

      thus refuting your root post that the Christian doesnt act..
      @Colin "The atheist thinks and acts, the Christian hopes and prays."

      May 15, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
    • Bongo

      Chad, there IS NO SUCH THING AS A JUDEO/CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE that all Christians agree to.
      You made that up yourself. Admit it.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • Colin

      @Chad 12 years of Catholic school taught me that, Chad. Fortunately 6 months of high school science also showed mye what nonsense the OT is. I guess, by your logic, the chrsitians also support the rest of the OT? You know where this is going, right? Slavery, genocide, 6 days and a talking snalke, worldwide flood etc.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • Bongo

      @Chad "Here's the thing: the ONLY difference between a Christian and a Jew is that the Christian believes the Messiah has arrived, the Jew is still waiting. Early Christians worshiped God in synagogues along with other Jews."

      My jaw may never get up off the floor again. What heresy! What a putz!
      Chad, have you ever met a Jew, spoken with them, read up on how they live their lives and how they believe in their Hashem?
      Because you just lied your ass off. It's probably down on the floor somewhere in your basement there....

      May 15, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Chad

      @Bongo

      =>a lot of atheists simply didnt realize that Jesus is jewish, that the early Christians were all jews, that the early Christians worshipped in the temple, that early Christianity was viewed as a Jewish sect known as "The Way".

      You should look up "Messianic Jew"

      ====
      @Colin,

      either you were taught wrong, or you listened wrong.
      Not understanding Christianity means you dont have any context of "fulfillment of the law" and all that.. you might consider doing some reading.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Rachel

      Chad, Great posts!!! 🙂

      May 15, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
    • Science

      http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/5/5/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority#

      recent seach chad/racheal

      url cool science

      May 15, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
  13. Colin

    I wonder if a goverrnment based on biblical principals will include drowning people who dissuade their children from being Christians, the JEsus wanted to drown such people:

    "If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea” (Mark 9:42) – repeated in both Luke and Matthew as Luke 17:2 and Matthew 18:6 respectively.

    May 15, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • Chad

      "it would be better"
      doesnt mean, "drown them"

      but, you knew that already 🙂
      so, carry on..

      May 15, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, What does it mean? It's a threat of some kind.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "JEsus wanted to drown such people:"

      Doesn't mean, "drown them"

      But you knew that already 🙂

      May 15, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • Bongo

      If I were a Christian I would definitely take that to say we must drown these pieces of filth that harm children.
      I am all for that even without being a Christian.

      See how my interpretation meshes perfectly with what I want to do? There's a name for that sort of thing...

      May 15, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
    • lol??

      Colin, messin' with the Lord's bride, again?? No wonder you have water on the bwain!

      May 16, 2013 at 1:18 am |
  14. Colin

    I wonder if a government based on Biblical principals will include the right to beat slaves, the way Jesus accepted such practices. Here is a direct quoute from Jesus on the issue:

    "And that slave who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be severely beaten. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of a severe beating, shall be beaten only lightly. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.” (Luke 12:47-48)

    May 15, 2013 at 5:38 pm |
    • Chad

      you already know the nature of slavery in that day (more akin to indentured servant), but do proceed anyway 🙂

      May 15, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • Colin

      No, I don't accept that at all, Chad. Slavery in "those days" was likely more barbaric than it was in the south in the 1800s, given the times. Second, and once again, you're dodging the 800 lb elephant in the room. Jesus openly supported beating slaves.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Chad

      A. You dont know what you are talking about with respect to slavery in ancient Rome, you are advised to do a little research (ignorance is nothing to be proud of).

      B. Jesus did not openly support beating slaves 🙂

      May 15, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "Jesus did not openly support beating slaves"

      He also did not openly, or in any way, support freeing slaves either 😦

      May 15, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Chad

      @Chad "Jesus did not openly support beating slaves"
      @ME II "He also did not openly, or in any way, support freeing slaves either "

      @Chad "A. Jesus did not have as His agenda social reform
      B. That isnt true in any case, Jesus did in fact support equitable treatment of slaves, and women, both views radically different then and even now.

      Simply look at the human rights records of Christian nations vs Islamic vs Atheist (USSR, North Korea, China, etc..)

      May 15, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Bongo

      Jesus was a yeshiva boy who lacked employment.

      Like most yeshiva students who do not get any other education, he was virtually guaranteed to be socially retarded, racist, and resembling a Muslim in many ways.

      He grew up in a world of Jewish "sharia law" while his country groaned under the whips of the local Roman garrison.

      The Roman Empire was everywhere. He probably spoke Latin merely to survive.

      He knew nothing but what gossip was going around. There were no reliable sources of information beyond other Jews for him.

      Tales of his early life are really weird, so we won't go there. They were left out of the Bible on purpose.

      Jews back then beat, ra.ped, murdered their wives and children just like some of them do now.
      It was the men who counted. No woman Jew would ever be considered a person.
      Just like Muslims, their religion hates women. Jews had harems before Muslims stole the idea.

      And they did not support treating slaves as other than slaves, like filth, like dogs to be beaten to death.
      If they had indentured servants, it was only other Jews. No non-Jew was as good as a Jew.
      Non-Jews could be killed with impunity, but if the Romans caught you, they'd kill you.

      Brutal BRUTAL slavery was everywhere. Romans could and did have Jewish slaves. Jews could have Roman slaves.
      But if you think the OT somehow shows that these ancient Jews were anything but violent, wife-beating, child-murdering rapists who used to enjoy being a nomadic nation that went raping and pillaging, slaughtering babies along the way, you would be WRONG.

      May 15, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
    • Chad

      @Bongo

      do you have actual sources for any of that, or do you consider yourself a prophet?

      May 15, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • Rachel

      Chad we are my prophet dear 🙂

      May 15, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
    • Ed

      You've got it bass ackwards, Chad. I think you need historian there, not a prophet.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
    • Chad

      Rachel I yearn for things that only you know.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
    • Science

      Chad + rachael = chadie +

      http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/5/5/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority#

      Recent search chadie

      May 15, 2013 at 9:42 pm |
    • lol??

      Colin, yer such a hell hole. Why not give some more of that parable??

      "Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;"
      He dished it out like the socie bullies and yer cryin' when he reaps?!?!????!!!

      May 16, 2013 at 12:59 am |
    • ME II

      oops, replied on pg 15 (at time of posting).

      May 16, 2013 at 9:53 am |
  15. Brother Maynard

    "How has religion negatively impacted your life?"
    Religion regularly and systematically spread lies, guilt and paranoia to my fellow man
    Religion diminishes the value and advancement of science.
    Because religion does this on a global / societal ( sp? ) level ... it impacts me directly

    May 15, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      whoops was suppose to be under Gregg Teel's post

      May 15, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      ... oh yea ... not to mention they fly airplanes into buildings

      May 15, 2013 at 5:27 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      And was supposed to be accurate but you missed that part too

      May 15, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • Chad

      You should be more specific about what religion you are referring to.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
    • Rachel

      You tell 'im Chad. That's me boy 🙂

      May 15, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      BD
      you are really going to tell me the religion didn't have a major hand in the acts of 911 ?

      May 15, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, All religions do it. As we are in the USA, that would be christianity.
      Where they try to impose their beliefs on the whole population in the form of their religious texts displayed on public buildings, their religious figurehead is mentioned on the currency, their religious beliefs taught in schools in preference to the science that shows their religious texts to be inaccurate. Even the ringing of bells to call the flock!

      May 15, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
  16. Hope

    It is our hope and prayer that organizations such as Samaritan's purse will continue to reach out to the poor and those that are in need, trust that the organization will be able to reach out to more people and be a special blessing to our own, our wounded warriors.

    May 15, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      You pray for that and I will pray that god quits killing children.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Colin

      The atheist thinks and acts, the Christian hopes and prays.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Hope

      Samaritan's purse is a Christian organization and so is World Vision and so is Salvation Army and so is...the list goes on and on...

      May 15, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Sue

      One mind and one pair of hands working to solve a problem do infinitely more good than a million hands clasped in prayer.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • Sue

      Hope, you haven't got a point. Many of the most effective charities are non-secular. Gates Foundation, Amnesty International, and on and on too.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • Sue

      Hope, you haven't got a point. Many of the most effective charities are secular. Gates Foundation, Amnesty International, and on and on too.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Hope, I am still praying, but nothing. We still have kids with cancer and cavities.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Hope, still nothing. What is going on? It is almost as if there is no god. I will keep praying.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Apple, go find a street person. Buy them some shoes. I pray it blesses you.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • fred

      That guves up on prayer, Bill. Don't make his point for him.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Good advice Bill. Thank you. You can pet my bunny anytime.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • sam

      Don't do that, Apple. Remember that cop who bought a homeless guy some shoes, and the homeless guy hid them and stayed barefoot? His reason was that the other homeless people would just steal them from him.

      Give to/volunteer at a shelter that helps people get back on their feet – and find a safe place to keep their shoes.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      It's cool sam, I just prayed that no homeless people's feet will ever fall off.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • Hope

      Here are other top notch charities just to name a few, M25M & Blessings International two of the stellar ones out there. Proof that they not only talk the talk but walk the walk in faith and obedience to creator God.
      In the words of Carl Barth " To clasp the hands in prayer is the beginning of an uprising against the disorder of the world.” ,

      May 15, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I prefer secular charities such as Doctors Without Borders, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation or the Nature Conservancy. These are charities that do no attach politics or religion to their work. Their good is done for the sake of being good, not to please a myth.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
    • Bob

      Hope, prayer has never, ever caused anything to happen. If you believe otherwise, then present an example, with verifiable evidence. Good luck with that; you'd be the first person to ever do so.

      Your beliefs would be merely quaint if they weren't also harmful. As for your charities, there are many non-religious ones too, and you don't have a point there.

      However, that's also the same old religious line; all that Christian charity also brings some horrid tag-along clauses, part of those being all the bigotry and hatred of Christianity that resulted in the Inquisitions, suppression of medical advances, and myriad other Christianity-driven crimes against humanity.

      Take your evil religion and shove it – into the dustbins of history with all the thousands of other god myths that man has created (and that Christianity stole most of its stories from).

      May 15, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
  17. lol??

    Looks like slavery when wimen think they OWN a baby. The dad has no say?? Talk about feces goin' downhill!!

    May 15, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      If you stretch the skin back just enough you can see where the lies are kept. Not many lies, but one can mix and match to suit the skinly suit

      The really good stuff is kept here but you are not allowed to enjoy that part. That is for tomorrow.

      That is for never ever and that is tomorrow so knives and forks Up! Heads Up!

      You sir are asked to leave. It the nature of things here so please don’t drone on about your reservation.

      All in due time and with the right socks

      The tender cheek once in a life once in life once in a life once in a life

      May 15, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
  18. The journey

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy-fSxHuqck&w=640&h=360]

    May 15, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
  19. Reality

    In order to pay down our $16 trillion debt, we need to redirect money used to support religions especially the christian and islamic cons and put it towards paying off our obligations..

    To wit:

    Redirecting our funds and saving a lot of "souls":

    Saving 1.5 billion lost Muslims:
    There never were and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam and therefore no more koranic-driven acts of horror and terror LIKE 9/11.

    – One trillion dollars over the next several years as the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan will end.

    – Eighteen billion dollars/yr to Pakistan will stop.

    – Four billion dollars/yr to Egypt will end.

    Saving 2 billion lost Christians including the Mormons:
    There were never any bodily resurrections and there will never be any bodily resurrections i.e. No Easter, no Christianity!!!

    – The Mormon empire will now become taxable as will all Christian "religions" and evangelical non-profits since there is no longer any claim to being a tax-exempt religion.

    – the faith-based federal projects supported by both Bush and Obama will be eliminated saving $385 million/yr and another $2 billion/yr in grants.

    Giving to religious groups (mostly Christian) in 2010, totaled $95.8 billion,

    – Saving 15.5 million Orthodox followers of Judaism:

    Abraham and Moses never existed.

    – Four billion dollars/yr to Israel saved.

    – All Jewish sects and non-profits will no longer be tax exempt.

    Now all we need to do is convince these 3.5+ billion global and local citizens that they have been conned all these centuries Time for a YouTube,Twitter and FaceBook campaign!!!!

    May 15, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • lol??

      Not fair. I wasn't a car dealer and missed out on the "cash fer clunkers".

      May 15, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • The government

      Please don't talk about overspending...please don't talk about our mismanaged funds...please..oh.. Whew! You didn't. Way to pay for my nose job..love you!

      May 15, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
  20. Gregg Teel

    Booty: if it's such an easy question-answer it. How has religion negatively impacted your life?
    Sam: What group has been marginalized? Again because some people disagree with some beliefs it marginalizes them? How ridiculous.

    May 15, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • sam

      Dumbass poe. Nothing anyone says to you is going to sink in.

      May 15, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Religion has negatively impacted my life. I can swear into court without having to tell them to remove that silly bible, I refuse to swear on it. I cannot take the same pledge as those who believe in god, the christains took that away from those who do not have gods. I see the ridiculous lie on our money, and am sorry that America is made to look silly because of that lie. I have been attacked, verbally and physically simple because I am an atheist.. I had one family that was teaching their children to walk on the other side of the street from me, simply because they thought that atheist was the same as satanism.

      If you want to see what it is like...Take six months and travel the US... go to the bible belt, the deep south and tell everyone that you are an atheist, and see how you get treated.
      You are nieve.

      May 15, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • lol??

      Richard Cranium sayz
      Religion has negatively impacted my life............."

      Try a dentist before trying to change the wurld.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Science

      Hey lol ??...............the cat is out of the bag already...............no red divil or fairy in the sky !

      May 15, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • Science

      Oops............... devil

      May 15, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Let's Build in Minecraft - Fire Extinguisher

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T19bejlujJA&w=640&h=360]

      May 15, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
    • .

      some states have laws on the books that non-believers are not allowed to hold office.

      how do you like that, Gregg? nothing to say?

      May 15, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • Hmmm

      Lying under oath...lying to get into office..nobody ever does that.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.