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Poll: America losing its religion
The Reason Rally, sponsored by secular organizations, draws a crowd to Washington.
May 29th, 2013
03:06 PM ET

Poll: America losing its religion

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – More than three in four of Americans say religion is losing its influence in the United States, according to a new survey, the highest such percentage in more than 40 years. A nearly identical percentage says that trend bodes ill for the country.

"It may be happening, but Americans don't like it," Frank Newport, Gallup's editor in chief, said of religion's waning influence. "It is clear that a lot of Americans don't think this is a good state of affairs."

According to the Gallup survey released Wednesday, 77% of Americans say religion is losing its influence. Since 1957, when the question was first asked, Americans' perception of religion's power has never been lower.

According to the poll, 75% of Americans said the country would be better off if it were more religious.

The poll doesn't reflect Americans' personal religiosity, such as church attendance, but rather how large events and trends shape shared views, Newport explained.

For example, the sexual revolution, the Vietnam War and the rise of the counterculture fed the perception that religion was on the wane during the late 1960s, he said.

Views of a secularizing America peaked in 1969 and 1970, when 75% of Americans said faith was losing its clout in society. A similar view dominated from 1991-94 and from 2007 to the present.

Americans saw religion increasing its influence in 1957, in 1962 and at a few points during the Reagan presidency in 1980. This number also spiked to its highest point ever - 71% - after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

The pollster didn't speculate on the contemporary factors that led to the current views on faith's influence.

Still, the poll numbers are dramatically influenced by church attendance, according to Gallup. More than 90% of people who attend church weekly responded that a more religious America would be positive, compared with 58% of Americans who attended church "less often."

The Gallup poll was conducted via telephone from May 2 to May 7. A total of 1,535 people were sampled for the poll, which has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • United States

soundoff (6,389 Responses)
  1. Tim W.

    I think the leaders of the church, the religions and the books they use are all the cause of religions going down the tube ! I do not think less people believe in a GOD (the names of which God does not matter)...its just that people have lost all belief in religions ! More people are seeing that religions want you to follow their religion and the belief in a God is secondary. Does anyone really believe that God....any God by any name.....really cares if you cross your heart, pray in a certain direction, if your feet are dirty or clean, etc....is the deciding factor in your going to heaven ? Do you think a God would tell you that if you do not follow this or that religion that members of that religion are required to KILL non-flowers of that religion ? If there is a God then the worst thing to happen to him is organized religion and books written about him !

    May 30, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • unknowing

      Wow you have a really strong opinion but yet God does care n loves you

      May 30, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • One one

      There is a very easy explanation to unscramble this mess. Think about all the issues you just raised. Now think this; there are no gods. That makes all the apparently complex issues explained so clearly. Why ? Because its the truth.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • Tim W.

      I'm Agnostic, I sit here and think both sides of the " Believe " issue is just fooling themselves as we just do not know some things and I will never say I Know something just to feel excepted to a group........ I can except NOT knowing something !

      May 30, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Dippy

      Accepted, not excepted. Really different words.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
  2. mykel armory

    Yeah! Down with god! Up with Satan!

    May 30, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • Akira

      Nonsense.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • Mememememememememememememe

      One word for you...trol....actually no TWO words...Satanic Troll. Not the right place 😦

      May 30, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • One one

      There are no gods, no angels, no satan, no demons, no heaven, and no hell, and no big foot. They are all myths.

      Wasn't that easy ?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      You have believe in Satan to worship Satan. Good luck with new faith.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • birch please

      I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints

      May 30, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
  3. Heathen

    Good news indeed! Cheers fellow infidels 🙂

    May 30, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • Science

      Realy time to grow up chadie.

      Asteroids Provide Sustainable Resource, Study Finds

      May 30, 2013 — The prospects of a robotic manufacturing base operating off Earth is not as far-fetched as it used to be according to a study published by a team of NASA researchers led by a Kennedy Space Center physicist.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130530144807.htm

      May 30, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • science

      Oops .............really ............Chad and the gang

      May 30, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
  4. Humor

    What's funny about religion and their people is that they are "taught" and "preach" NOT to judge..... yet daily do the exact opposite.....

    May 30, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • Ambo

      What's funny about Atheists is that they claim not to care about the existence of a god yet spend every moment of their lives fixated on the subject.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Akira

      Ambo, that's quite the judgemental remark. Are you Christian?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      What's funny about Ambo is, he gets his funderwear in a twist and cries about atheists like they give a sh it.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      TRUE BELIEVERS JUDGE (not according to their own standard Matthew 7:1-2)

      "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." John 7:24 (Ephesians 5:11, 1 Corinthians 5:12)

      "But he who is spiritual judges ALL things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one." 1 Corinthians 2:15 (1 Corinthians 6:2-3; 10:15; 14:29, Romans 16:17)

      Judging Is Believing.

      Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? (Luke 12:57)

      What is right?
      The statutes of the Lord are right (Psalm 19:8).

      False Christians and unbelievers tell us it is not right to judge. Some fools hypocritically condemn us for judging (Luke 6:37), and they all hypocritically judge that we judge. When we identify preachers as false teachers leading both themselves and those who follow them to hell, when we declare others as on their way to hell, and especially when we warn them they are lost, we often hear these words (or the equivalent), "Judge not" (Matthew 7:1). Yet, these words are exactly why we judge.

      Jesus said,

      Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. (Matthew 7:1-2)

      Amen.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      Go amen yourself up the as.s, HeavenSent

      May 30, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bull, Jesus' truth will set you free from the chains of satan's lies that enslave you.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
  5. VIP

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AXU6dL231k&w=640&h=360]

    May 30, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Because there is no other GOD, but truth absolute GOD, rest of them are hinduism criminality of hindu Pundits, crook tricksters to make human move away from only GOD, truth absolute in life.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Because there is no other GOD, but truth absolute GOD, rest of them are hinduism criminality of hindu Pundits, crook tricksters to make human move away from truth absolute GOD in life.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      HEY MOHAMMAD

      IS THE PAKISTANI TALIBAN MEETING BYOB TONIGHT, OR WILL IT BE CATERED?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • What's my perspective?

      Same as yours, Lee!

      May 30, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • Bob

      Wouldn't say perspective, it's the TRUTH.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
  6. Where? Garden of Eden. When? A few years after Adam is created.

    Adam: I love you God.

    God: I love you too Adam. Now how about you show me how much you love me by not eating of these two tree's that I placed in among the other trees. One is the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, and the other is the tree of life.

    Adam: Okay, I will show you how much I love you by not eating of those tree's, but just out of curiosity, what would happen if I did eat from it?

    God: Very bad things.

    Adam: Define "bad things"

    God: Well bad things are, well the opposite of good things.

    Adam: Define "good things"

    God: Well, you know, like me creating you was a good thing

    Adam: for whom?

    God: What was that?

    Adam: Nothing, so back to this whole "good and bad" thing, is it like when i'm smiling and happy that's good?

    God: Right! You're getting it...

    Adam: And when i'm not feeling well like stumbling over a log and hitting my head, that's "bad", right?

    God: Well, close enough, yeah... hey, wait a minute, you havn't eaten any of this fruit over here have you?

    Adam: If I say yes, will you sp a nk me good? Or punish me bad?

    May 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • Science

      Is this bad enough.................religion/red horn-y thingy = old $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

      May 30, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Being deceived by the serpent's lies (Lucifer aka satan) started with Adam and Eve, is as prevalent then as it is today. Thanks for playing.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
    • Clover

      HeavenSent,

      And you think that you are protected by your magic chants and mumbles and "true believin"? Don't forget the garlic and the silver bullet...

      May 30, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Clover, you need to read Deuteronomy 18:10-12.

      Amen.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Don't you love it when HS tells you what you "need"? How would some old bat know what anyone else needs when she never leaves her trailer?

      May 30, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
  7. mykel armory

    Religion is a relic. I spit on it. I can't wait to see the tears as Satan takes over!

    May 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
    • Akira

      Nonsense.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • Admiral Ackbar

      IT'S A TROLL

      May 30, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Atheism is but a crude yet heavily polished pedestal to be stood upon. It is where atheism stands in lowliness among towering, glimmering pedestals of multi-religious worshippers standings that gives atheists little wiggle room to see but little values in support of nothingness being the allness of endings to all who do die. In Atheism there is no hopes after one rations out they will one day die. Why do these morbidly evolved atheists even ever find reason for one to live except thru personalized convictions seen in the societal lights of pseudo-socialized aspects of self-relational activisms?

      May 30, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
  8. acedynamo

    Encouraging statistics, this can't happen fast enough. The sooner we get "magic man" out of our lives and government the sooner rational decisions will be made.

    May 30, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
  9. Spiritual

    I believe that religion is nothing more than a way to have mass social control. The fact that so many things pertaining to history go HAND IN HAND with the MAN WRITTEN bible just leaves me with too many questions. The doctrine itself comes off as nothing more than a book to answer how you are SUPPOSED to feel based off of situations (scriptures and all). Although I am torn between the theories tying into evolution or the "big brain" I do firmly believe in things such as karma and how various energies affect the world itself. But if "God" knows all that we have done, are doing, and are going to do then what is the purpose of life?

    May 30, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • Chad

      Have you ever actually read the bible?
      I'm not talking about "read a few verses here and there in the process of cutting and pasting things from infidels.org"
      I mean, actually read it?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH.IT

      Don't even try responding to Chad – it's a trap. He can't construct a decent argument to save his life, and his idiocy will suck the life out of you.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Admiral Ackbar

      IT'S A TRAP

      May 30, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • chAdmiral hAckbar

      What study have you done to know It's a Trap!!

      May 30, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Akira

      What is funny is that I've never even heard of infidels.org, and here Chad is promoting it.
      I'm sure that infidels.org had no idea that they had an unpaid cheerleader getting their message out, but I am sure they will be grateful.
      I still have no intention of going there, Chad, so your promotion is lost on me.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Chad, unbelievers won't give you the truth that they refuse to give up their sinful natures. That's why they hide behind science, rip scriptures apart, deny, deny, deny that Jesus is truth etc. all because they wallow like swines in their mud of sins.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
    • Science

      Hey chad and HS time to grow up really !Asteroids Provide Sustainable Resource, Study Finds

      May 30, 2013 — The prospects of a robotic manufacturing base operating off Earth is not as far-fetched as it used to be according to a study published by a team of NASA researchers led by a Kennedy Space Center physicist.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130530144807.htm

      May 30, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Akira: infidels.org is a site that promotes secularism...funny that chad would mention it considering it goes against all that he stands for

      May 30, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • Happy Atheist

      Please explain to me how I am a sinner HS. I have never caused bodily harm to another human that I know of. I keep my word. I help others. I donate to causes I think are beneficial for society. I keep myself clean and take care of my family. I work hard so my daughter can have a quality education and opportunities for the future. I have never cheated on my wife.

      Is the sin that makes me so worthy of eternal torment is that I don't lower my head and think thankful thoughts to your God, then i'm sorry but you worship a childish creator.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • .

      Chad doesn't even know what the hell he stands for, he can't keep his BS straight

      May 30, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • The real Tom

      HeavenSent, you must be learning disabled. "Swines" is not correct. It's "swine." I suppose you write about "deers", too, don't you, you nutty old hag?

      May 30, 2013 at 8:02 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Science, you haven't a clue what I read. Thanks for playing.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The real Tom, I'm glad you came out today and stopped posting under dummy handles.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:15 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Stupid HS, I didn't even get home from work until 6:30, and I never, ever post from my work computer. Don't you feel pretty stupid now?

      May 30, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Maybe HS can answer, since the Chard can't or won't: How did the Schaibles, their pastor, and their entire congregation manage to incorrectly interpret the bible? How do you know they did? How do you know that they weren't absolutely right about what god wanted them to do for their 7-month -old baby?

      May 30, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
  10. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    True face of hindu secular, filthy secular, self centered gods of hinduism, racism.

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kweTS6ROhw&w=640&h=360]

    May 30, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • Mohammad Followers Steadily Taking the World Backward

      mohammad is banging aisha in above stone display, it is called kama sutra mohammad style. Mohammd followers taking the world backward.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH.IT

      SHUT THE HELL UP

      May 30, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      True face of hindus, crooks.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      TRUE FACE OF YOUR FAKE RELIGION AND YOUR FALSE CHILD-MOLESTING PROPHET

      TRY SHOWERING MORE THAN ONCE A MONTH MOHAMMAD

      May 30, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Accept it hindus, crooks, no one is responsible for hinduism, illegality on earth but hindus crooks of hindu dark ages, and of today of hindered gutter of hindu atheism, filthy self center ism india for ever. Pictures speak thousand words to witness to hinduism, criminality of hindus racist all along the history.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      ILLEGALITY OF YOUR FILTHY LACK OF SOAP

      WASH YOUR HIND, PAKISTANI TALIBAN

      May 30, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
  11. no

    ;“Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys. And Kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Numbers 12:34-37

    May 30, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • Chad

      Do you know what Judeo/Christian belief is with respect to why God demanded that?

      May 30, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH.IT

      There's no possible good excuse for it, Chad.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:17 pm |
    • Chad

      "There's no possible good excuse for it"

      really?

      how do you know w/out having read it? That's an impossible statement for you to make.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • Over Religion

      Yes Chad, I know why, but it doesn't mean I have to respect it. There is no excuse. You can claim God has the right to do as he pleases since he created all things, but that doesn't make him any less of a Richard Cranium by killing the women and children.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      You have NO IDEA if I've read it, but there you go with your BS. I've read it, and it's still foul, unethical nonsense. Shame on you Chad. Shame on you and your idiot con games.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Jeffrey Dahmer

      You don't think I had a good reason for eating people and making love to heads in my freezer? I wrote about why I did it in my journal, and like Chad said, "how do you know w/out having read it? That's an impossible statement for you to make."

      May 30, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Kilgore Trout

      Why "God demanded that" is because that's what the Iron Age warrior who was writing God's lines wanted to have him say.

      Just like when Creflo Dollar speaks for God, he has him say "I want you do be rich."

      May 30, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • Kilgore Trout

      Chad, when you presume to speak for God, what do you have him say?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      Chad has a handpuppet he refers to as God, and he makes it say all kinds of things. Talks to it all day long.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • truth

      @ the fake "no" I'd, along with the fake "pure-religion" and "pure-religion 1" ids.

      Keep stealing ID's.

      GOD is watching.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jeffrey Dahmer, you posted "You don't think I had a good reason for eating people and making love to heads in my freezer? I wrote about why I did it in my journal, and like Chad said, "how do you know w/out having read it? That's an impossible statement for you to make." "

      Answer: You had no respect for others because you "believed evolution to be true". Jeffrey Dahmer's own words of why he killed.

      You have Jeffrey Big Ego Dahmer that sold you out as well as the likes of Ted Big Ego Bundy and your latest and greatest Jodi Big Ego Arias.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      Did that get your attention, HeavenSent? Fantasize much about phucking frozen heads?

      How many heads are in your freezer, you crazy fundie?

      May 30, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
    • Jeff D

      Thank you HS for completely missing the point. Chad is saying it's okay to kill women and children if God tells you to. Jeffrey may have killed because he believed in evolution. Neither are good excuses to kill women and children, regardless of what either wrote.

      It's like trying to talk to a wall except a wall has better comprehension skills.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • The real Tom

      A wall is also considerably more attractive and undoubtedly smells better.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:04 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jeff D, Chad is telling you that you are missing the lesson Jesus taught in those scriptures. What else is new with unbelievers?

      May 30, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
    • JD

      I'm missing the point about God commanding his servants to murder helpless women and children but to round up the virgins and keep them for yourselves? Am I missing something here?

      May 30, 2013 at 8:40 pm |
    • JD

      If Abraham had a daughter that God commanded he take to the top of the nearest mountain and r.aped, would that have been going to far? Was commanding him to take his son up to be sacrificed still in the "okay" realm?

      Is it just that if God says it, it makes it okay? like President Nixon said "When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal..."

      May 30, 2013 at 8:45 pm |
  12. sliceanddice

    "that's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight losing my religion..."

    May 30, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
  13. Pure-Religion 1

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.

    Exodus 27:7

    May 30, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Are you done trolling yet???

      May 30, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • derp

      What TP, don't like people posting bible quotes?

      May 30, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      From book of hindu Mithra ism, savior ism, corrupted Torah called Greek Torah by hindus crooks of hindu dark ages, called old testament.

      May 30, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • Mohammad Followers Steadily Taking the World Backward

      PR – taken from book of holy Koran?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • no

      To the impostor, you have stolen this ID. Along with pure-religion.

      The truth will set you free.

      By what name?

      How can a man be saved?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
  14. Pure-Religion 1

    Jesus supported the beating of slaves:

    “And that slave who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be severely beaten. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of a severe beating, shall be beaten only lightly. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.”

    Jesus, as quoted in Luke 12:47-48

    May 30, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Once again, how many slaves do you own?

      May 30, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • derp

      "Once again, how many slaves do you own?

      How is that relevant to the fact that the bible condones slavery.

      May 30, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • no

      You have stolen the I'd Pure-Religion and Pure-Religion1

      That makes you thief.

      Truth will set you free.

      By what name can a man be saved? And how?

      God is watching.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH IT

      No,

      There's no one watching, you gnarled little gremlin.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
  15. Akira

    Nonsense. Who is eliminating religion? Nobody.

    May 30, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
  16. Pure-Religion 1

    “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

    God himself speaking in Exodus 21:20-21

    May 30, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      How many slaves do you own exactly?

      May 30, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • derp

      "How many slaves do you own exactly?"

      Irrelevant to the fact that the bible condones slavery

      May 30, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      If you support the buybull then you support owning slaves...rather simple! You can't have it both ways...it's all or nothing!

      May 30, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • truth

      @ the fake Pure-Religion and Pure-Religion ID's.

      You can steal ID's, but you cannot represent the truth.

      God is watching.

      The TRUTH will set you free.

      Meet TRUTH.

      Steal this ID. Everyone knows who you really are.

      By what name must a man be saved?

      How can one be saved?

      Know the true GOD. Not this fake who stole the ID'S and made false postings.

      Meet the TRUTH. TODAY!

      May 30, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Truth Prevails, if you support the theory of evolution, you are a slave to satan's lies.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Idiot. Evolution isn't a "lie," and you are an idiot if you think it is.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom,

      Isaiah 44:24-25

      24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
      25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish  (KJV)

      Amen.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Quoting a 2000 year old book that caused the Schaibles to allow their child to die is hardly convincing, HS. Especially from some ninny who can't manage to figure out that "swine" is already plural.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:27 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The real Tom, you must be drained over all the years God claims you to be a fool.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:34 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Been tippling again, have you HS? It shows. You're blathering and farting all over this board tonight. Put down the bottle and go to bed.

      May 30, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
  17. Science

    Is it to simple for creationists /bible thumpers to figure out ?

    Creation vs Evolution..................evolution wins....................no horn-y thingy never has been.

    May 30, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Science, Isaiah 44:24-25 applies to you as well regarding the lies of evolution. LOL.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
    • Science

      HS stick it where the sun does not shine ...............evolution wins hands down or thumbs up. time for the horn-y red devil

      to get the hell out of the way .................stem cell research !

      Or a cotton swap for a DNA test HS.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
  18. Pure-Religion

    Leviticus 25:44-46

    May 30, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
  19. ken in MO

    I think the worst thing that could have ever happened, actually happened. Religion has become a political party. The views of it leaders often do the most vile and unethical things. THey praise the rich and scorn the poor calling them lazy and beneath them, they tell everyone that you are on your own. You have no right to be treated with healthcare; you have a right to die and I have a right to not care.

    People are not leaving Religion....Religion is leaving people...and God.

    May 30, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      Good point. Never saw it that way.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
  20. ME II

    [re-posted, sorry]
    Seriously, anyone? honest question.
    I've always wondered how Adam and Eve were punished for disobeying God before they had any knowledge that disobeying God was wrong.

    May 30, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
    • ME II

      anyone?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • Akira

      I am perplexed at why Chad isn't answering an honest question, but above, he is prokoving yet another argument with another poster airing hizzer opinion.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • Chad

      They chose to disobey, unfortunately.

      I dont think they knew it was wrong, how could they if their eyes werent opened to that yet.

      But, they did know that they had been told not to do precisely that, and they had been told what the result of that disobedience would be. So they chose death, unfortunately.

      Seemingly, all they had to go on was the fact that God had said not to do it. They couldnt have understood all of the consequences. There are a lot of parallels between that situation and the one we face now. Trust Him, chose life. Dont trust Him, chose death.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF BULLSH.IT

      Chad, you choose to be a total idiot; that is an even greater sin. You are going to roast in hell.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • rosethornne

      Because the Imaginary Sky Fairy was imagined to be just like the smelly old men imagining it: psychotic jerks

      May 30, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      Thanks for the response.

      Okay, that explains what happened, but I still fail to see the moral/ethical argument for God punishing someone who, by definition, could not be held responsible for their actions. This might make more sense if the consequence were directly related to the action, i.e. if you drink poison, you will die, but it seems that the death that God mentioned was due to a lack of access to the tree of life, i.e. God's action as punishment and not as a direct consequence of their own actions.
      I'm still puzzled.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "Okay, that explains what happened, but I still fail to see the moral/ethical argument for God punishing someone who, by definition, could not be held responsible for their actions"

      @Chad "how do you figure they can not be held responsible for their actions?"

      They had free will, they chose to do what they had been told not to and suffered spiritual death as they were told they would.

      “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

      you can argue that the punishment doesnt fit the crime, but you cant argue that they werent free moral agents and that they chose to be disobedient.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      " but you cant argue that they werent free moral agents and that they chose to be disobedient."

      But wouldn't a lack of knowledge of good and evil mean exactly that, "not free moral agents"?

      One might argue that they didn't need to make a "moral" judgement, just a self-interested one, i.e.I don't want to die. However, without a knowledge of good and evil, how would one know that death is bad? Especially, if they had never experienced death in any way?

      May 30, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "But wouldn't a lack of knowledge of good and evil mean exactly that, "not free moral agents"?
      @Chad "no.. since when does a need to know if an action of mine is right or wrong, going to turn out good or bad, mean I am/am not exercising free will?
      Free will doesnt require knowing the results of your actions, it merely means you can freely chose between options.

      ===
      @ME II " However, without a knowledge of good and evil, how would one know that death is bad? Especially, if they had never experienced death in any way?"
      @Chad "they probably wouldnt have known, but they did know they were told not to and they had a choice to listen or ignore that.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
    • Happy Atheist

      "“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

      "you can argue that the punishment doesnt fit the crime, but you cant argue that they werent free moral agents and that they chose to be disobedient."

      I can argue that by telling Adam not to do something and defining a punishment for the crime, God was effectively being the fruit imparting knowledge of good and bad. No eating required, God defined good and bad for them himself.

      Without the concept of good and bad, no one can be held accountable or judged on their good and bad behavior, it is all relative.

      What I find most curious about Chad however, is not his lack of basic logic and reasoning skills, but that he can rationalize evolution (has said he is an evolutionary creationist many times) with the story of Adam and Eve. He acts as though it's allegory for a while but then comes in with these literal debates on Adam and Eve. Pick one and stick to it Chad.

      May 30, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Genesis 6:5-6

      Amen.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Christianity 101 for dummies ....

      The "Tree Of Life," in the Garden of Eden is Jesus Christ before His time. The other 'tree,' the "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil"  was satan, he will not be in the third earth age (Heaven) for he is condemned to perish in the Lake of Fire (Ezekiel 28:18-19, Revelation 20:10)

      Genesis 2:9

      And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  (KJV)  

      Amen.

      May 30, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • Happy Atheist

      "The "Tree Of Life," in the Garden of Eden is Jesus Christ before His time. The other 'tree,' the "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil" was satan"

      If the tree's were just allegory, then who were Adam and Eve? And why did they eat Satan?

      May 30, 2013 at 7:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Happy, like you, they ate his lies.

      May 30, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      Exercising free will? I won't get into that one, right now.

      Making choices, however, does not require knowledge of good and evil (KOGAE), but holding someone accountable for those decisions does require KOGAE.

      If someone is incapable of determining right from wrong, how can anyone hold them accountable specifically for making the wrong choice? In the US legal system I think this might be a part of the "insanity defense" used to invalidate criminal responsibility.

      Direct consequences, I'd agree are reasonable, at least to us mortals, if for no other reason than we can't always stop them, but this isn't a direct consequence because God had an intermediate step. He exiled them from Eden, which was His moral choice.

      "they probably wouldnt have known [about death], but they did know they were told not to and they had a choice to listen or ignore that."

      Sure, they had a choice, but without KOGAE, how can they be responsible for not choosing good? In other words why would anyone expect them to choose good over evil if they can't tell the difference? Perhaps they thought they were choosing "good"?

      May 30, 2013 at 9:02 pm |
    • Chad

      @ME II "holding someone accountable for those decisions does require KOGAE."
      @Chad "God told them that if they ate, they would die.
      They ate
      they died
      that's it.

      Does someone have to know that what they are doing is wrong, to be held accountable for doing it?
      actually, no, they dont

      It's quite a well established legal rule even now in our society: ""ignorance of the law is no excuse"
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat

      May 30, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      What kind of stupid god makes a creation so easily corruptible?

      May 30, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "Does someone have to know that what they are doing is wrong, to be held accountable for doing it?
      actually, no, they dont"

      "Moral responsibility is the status of morally deserving praise, blame, reward, or punishment for an act or omission, in accordance with one's moral obligations. Deciding what if anything is morally obligatory is a principle concern of ethics.
      People who have moral responsibility for an action are called moral agents."

      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_responsibility)

      "Moral agency is an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some commonly held notion of right and wrong and to be held accountable for these actions.[1] A moral agent is 'a being who is capable of acting with reference to right and wrong.'[2]"
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_agents)

      Moral/ethical responsibility and accountability, I think, requires some knowledge of right and wrong in order to have the "ability to make moral judgments based on some commonly held notion of right and wrong", e.g. KOGAE.

      ======
      "It's quite a well established legal rule even now in our society: 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'"

      the Explanation section of that link:
      "The rationale of the doctrine is that if ignorance were an excuse, a person charged with criminal offenses or a subject of a civil lawsuit would merely claim that he or she is unaware of the law in question to avoid liability, even though the person really does know what the law in question is. Thus, the law imputes knowledge of all laws to all persons within the jurisdiction no matter how transiently. Even though it would be impossible, even for someone with substantial legal training, to be aware of every law in operation in every aspect of a state's activities, this is the price paid to ensure that willful blindness cannot become the basis of exculpation. Thus, it is well settled that persons engaged in any undertakings outside what is common for a normal person, such as running a nuclear power plant, will make themselves aware of the laws necessary to engage in that undertaking. If they do not, they cannot complain if they incur liability.
      The doctrine assumes that the law in question has been properly published and distributed, for example, by being printed in a government gazette, made available over the internet, or printed in volumes available for sale to the public at affordable prices."

      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat)

      It's is no excuse if the law is adequately available. That obviously was not the case with Adam and Eve and the tree of KOGAE.

      May 31, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • ME II

      above reposted at end ~p67.

      May 31, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.