By Dan Merica, CNN
(CNN) – Who can people call when religious doubts arise, but they're afraid to talk to their faith leaders or families?
A group that helps people "recover" from religion says it's ready to pick up the phone.
Recovering from Religion, which has about 40 support groups in the U.S. and Britain, plans to launch a hotline that will offer doubters an anonymous place to ask difficult questions and find communities of like-minded nonbelievers.
The group plans to staff the help line 24 hours a day and is modeling it after services like suicide prevention hotlines.
Sarah Morehead, executive director of Recovering from Religion, told CNN that the mission is to help people, not convert them to atheism.
“A lot of the times they just need someone to talk to," Morehead said.
The 1-800 number has yet to be named. Recovering from Religion is trying to raise $30,000 by June 30 to fund "The Hotline Project" with up to 40 counselors.
Ideally, the help line would be live by the holiday season, said Morehead, which is often a difficult time for people struggling with religious doubts.
Photos: Famous atheists and their beliefs
The idea for the hotline sprang up after calls came in to the Recovering from Religion phone line from people who were questioning their faith and needed to talk to someone. Morehead said she gets a few calls every day and hundreds of e-mails a month from people seeking counseling.
From there, she said, it seemed a hotline that provided a permanent, anonymous place to talk to someone was the best option.
"Coming out" as a nonbeliever – or even a doubter – can often be extremely difficult, Morehead and others say. In addition to the existential worries, budding nonbelievers run the risk of alienating family and friends.
The help line’s volunteer counselors will be trained to not engage in religious debate, Morehead said. Instead, they will try to give callers “practical, action-oriented solutions.”
When someone first calls the hotline, the counselor will start by simply asking the caller to talk about his or her personal story, said Morehead.
Later, the counselor and the caller might work on an action plan. The caller's goals may concern formally leaving religion altogether, but Morehead said that counselors will also offer advice on finding a new faith or connecting with a local community of nonbelievers.
Some blogs have questioned the hotline, however, calling it a ploy to increase the number of atheists in America.
Headlines like “New 1-800 Number Funded By Liberals To Convert Christians to Atheists,” for example, have cropped up at a number of conservative blogs.
Morehead said her critics fail to grasp the point of Recovering from Religion.
“Most of the people who contact us are working their way towards disbelief, so of course we are very equipped to handle that,” Morehead said. “That is not the goal, though, or the job of the facilitators.”
Photos: 'Born-again' celebrities
This hotline is not completely unique in the world of religious "nones" – people who either don’t believe in God or don’t affiliate with any religious beliefs. Atheists have long discussed disbelief in the comfort of online anonymity.
“We have seen how important the Internet is, especially young people questioning their faith, and this provides them with another resource with a different focus,” said Jesse Galef, communications director for the Secular Student Alliance. “For people who want more guidance, I think this resource will be very valuable.”
Services that help religious doubters have thrived recently.
The Clergy Project, an online community for preachers who no longer believe in God, has grown from 52 to nearly 500 people since its founding in 2011, said Teresa MacBain, the former executive director of the project.
MacBain, a former pastor who converted to atheism, called the help line "another way for people to contact someone anonymously and discuss the struggles they are having for their beliefs.”
“If this project had been around when I found the Clergy Project, I would have used it.”
MacBain said she plans to get training as one of the counselors and hopes to be answering calls when the service launches.
Let the Deprogramming Begin.
WHAT IS MAN ?
P A S S I O N I N L O V E .
Leave it to ex-religious people to act very religious in their approach to seeking converts.
This is no better than what they are trying to combat.
religion wants your money/time/vote... atheists just want you to think and be a good person.
Do you think suicide hot lines are trying to convert people to suicide?
Sorry, but skeptical of ex-Christian fundies not wanting people to "think" like them.
Crap. That's like saying a suicide hotline manned by people who've tried suicide is no better than going through with it.
On the one hand, I can kind of understand, religion isn't something you can flip a switch to turn on and off. It takes time and a lot of thinking to process through everything you always believed but now question. Like anything you've done for many years, it takes a while to untangle all that. On the other hand, I've seen some "recovery from religion" type stories online and a fair bit of it ends up leveling blame for problems on religion when really that's just a handy scapegoat. Religion may not have been helping the problem, but it often wasn't the root cause of the trouble and it became more of a symptom or a salve to ease the underlying pain. While removing the religion may help, there's a deeper problem that often needs to be looked at and phoning up a bunch of atheists or attending a support group can allow the true problem to go unfixed while the scapegoat receives more attention than it should. If you're going to go all "free thinker," you've gotta actually think free, not just switch group affiliation.
This is a well thought out comment, M.E. Thanks.
Well Catholic Engineer, like I said, free thinking requires thinking. I'm a philosophical Buddhist which means I balance and weigh all arguments and strive to find the correct middle ground then articulate it in the right way. It's not always easy, but sometimes it works out ok, haha.
We all, ultimately have to ride or own horse
Hilarious! I guess i you went from a devout believer to the realization that religion is just brain washing, it could be unsettling to say the least. There is a distinct comfort in the idea of life after death. And isn't that the primary draw of religion, the idea that if you behave a certain way, perform certain rituals, and give money to the church you will receive ever-lasting life? I believe a large part of our apparently innate need to believe is the fear of death. That and the idea that anything that can't be explained is in God's purview.
Are not our celestial cosmologies made up of atomized cosmologies whereupon certain celestial cosmologies, many atomized cosmologies began to congeal and coalesce to begin forming cellular cosmologies?
It still surprises me how non-Christians or non-believers come to judge the faith without knowing how it works. Actually the notion of salvation and everlasting life for a Christian is something that can never be earned or won through actions or rituals. It is a gift that cannot be earned but is only available for those who choose to believe that Jesus is God brought to life on earth, lived a perfect life and died on the cross to redeem your sins. Has nothing to do with acts or actions or rituals. Bother to learn something about the faith and it might be enlightening.
NoAction – you know you immediately contradict yourself right? You say there's no action that can be taken but then in the next breath say you have to accept that Jesus was perfect, the son of god, etc.
That sounds like an action to me...
LMAO! The fundies are squirming and screaming now.
Well, no; it's the atheists that are squirmy that they have a hotline. Hopefully, not too many of them will off themselves when they consider they have reason to be alive.
More "tolerance" from the far left party of hate.
You have no idea what "far left" even means.
At what point was any political party mentioned, other than in your comment?
that's very christian of you.
Heaven forbid people be tolerant of one another
What exactly is intolerant about this?
People wanting to help other people is being 'intolerant' to you?
he has no idea what tolerance means... do you know anything? i'm being serious. have you ever read a book? do you know how to think for yourself?
I'm pretty sure your Jesus was all about tolerance, but none of you believers seem to actually know anything about your own beliefs.
I'm not exactly sure how it is intolerant to have a number that people can call if they want, perhaps you could explain that to me?
How is this intolerance at all? This is s hotline, meaning people voluntarily call in when they are looking for help with their doubts and want an atheist's advice. This is not atheists forcing anything onto anyone, or hating anyone.
There are a lot of stupid people commenting on this article, and you are one of them.
Aw, man! So sad this article isn't allowing Disqus commenting. Typical. Cowards.
What are you smoking??? That made no sense...wanna try again using proper English this time?
See? I can't even reply properly to this dimbulb who just replied to my comment in a completely nonsensical way. I can't check his stats or comment history to see if he's trolling or just an idjit. There are no response notifications, and the only tracking mechanism is through wordpress, and it sucks big time.
This commenting format is dreadful.
Hey nt3chn0ph0b3, CE and chad easy as a click away ?
Submit your Site to Bing
June 4, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Report abuse |
How is a bad commenting format a sign of cowardice. Why are there so many morons in these comments.
"Some blogs have questioned the hotline, however, calling it a ploy to increase the number of atheists in America."
So what is it that churches are doing when they try to increase the number of their followers? Ploy is a good word for that. Brainwashing comes to mind as well.
Keep in mind that christianity is not the only religion my friend. Seriously, how many door-to-door jews or buhddists do you know? Also, keep in mind that the church is not every single christian there is. Seriously.
Anyone who stands staunchly away from envisioning a minded perception is blinder than a person with no eyes and yet the blind person does see! We are in constants' memories of things seen and hardly ever envisioned.
Whether or not there is a creator (or whatever phrase you might want to use), perceptive or otherwise, is actually not a very interesting question.
The more interesting question is whether said creator is Yahweh/ Jesus/ Allah/ Zeus/ Thor/ Vishnu/ Mithras/ Baal/ Wotan, or some other concocted deity. The answer to that question is the one that impacts our daily lives, well-being, fortunes, culture, and health, and the answer is very clearly "no".
Why do so many articles have this comment format now? I really don't like it; it makes it really hard to know who's posting what, and it makes debate practically impossible.
Maybe that's exactly why.
so, why bother.
If you would like to debate.
But, know that I teach the original reality of Chrystianity, not the mind version. The purpose of life is to evolve the nature of your Spirit, you true state of reality through taking within material memory and then Entering into the Kingdom for a Living Objective, Visual, and Telepathic Awareness in Pure Light and Love.
It's interesting that CNN seems to be making a regular habit of publishing articles in reference to atheism. There must be a legitimate cultural shift in progress or they wouldn't be going after those clicks.
CNN hates God and Christians in particular. CNN only worships their own genitalia.
It's just business. Look at the pages and pages of comments these stories produce. That translates into good numbers that please advertisers, which translates into money. Plan on many more of these articles to come.
I was a disgusting criminal that committed some terrible acts. I had to seek help and found the catholic church, as so many other criminals have. I am now righteous beyond any harm, redeemed, this is my crutch. I DO NOT recommend that you use this hotline project if you tell them your sins they will turn you into the police, you will NOT have the protection of the RCC and the confessional. For a few dollars you can be protected from the law under the protection of the church, give us a try, we have been successful for 1700 years. No others are better act protecting crimes against the state and humanity; go RCC go.
Funny, my life improved immensely when I left the Catholic Church.
So how is the priesthood treating you?
Bill: So what you're attempting to lie about is that you think the RCC is above the law??? How pathetic and immoral. The church preys on the weak and gullible, that's exactly why the helped you. Or are you saying you're a priest and like many of the other priests the RCC harbor from rightfull persecution, they are hiding you???
Are you kidding me a priest! I like to get laid like 99% of all catholics (with or without contraception) no celibacy for me, or for the majority of the clergy, come to think of it. If you look into the history it was just a scam to keep the clergy from skimming of the wealth of the princes of the church. The Vatican's wealth was partially built on the inheritance that belonged to the bas.tard children of the clergy.
You sound like persons I counsel, you are a DivineImmortal and most likely lived in Jesus time and learned from Him. Stay Loyal to DivineLove.
No others are better act protecting crimes against the state and humanity; go RCC go.
You're right. There's no organization better at protecting criminals than the RCC. Particularly pedophiles.
Support to quit religion? Give us a break !!
All the support you will ever need:
(Only for the new members of this club)–
Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
• A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "
If kibosh means a biased opinion...yep, you put one of those up.
You are one heck of a fail. There is proof of Moses and Abraham. And it's called the old testament. And the reason why so many of these reigions are hard to prove is because religions are ever-changin, and history has garbled the truths. Powerful leaders always bent their civilization's religions when they came to power to empower themselves. And just because as mortals we can't comprehend a neverending lifecycle doesn't mean there isn't one. You are quick to jump to conclusions, and eager to insult religions. Poo on you and your ideas I say.
What's wrong with Taoism?
Haha, you said the Old Testament was "proof" of something. You funny!
Reality prove to us you exist. I will not accept birth certificates, ID's, photos, government records, financial history, eye witness accounts, parents testimonials or you physically all that can be faked and made up.
@bo- are you under the impression that the Tanakh doesn't have proof in it that is accurate? Oh my you so funny...and stupid.
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
Darwin was right. An idiot satanist or atheist is born every day.
Monkeys are smarter than atheists.
All because we don't close our eyes and imagine we can speak to spirits.
Speaking of idi0ts, please tell us about your belief in unicorns and talking animals.
Well you got the first sentence right. The rest needs some work though.
I think atheist don't agree on their own story. Some atheists say that atheism is man's natural condition – he's born that way. Yet in his most basic primordial state, man was universally religious. So what is man's natural state? Religious or no? So atheists need an expedient: religion is a psychosis from the early days that needs to be outgrown. Or something like that.
God and Satan are flip sides of the same coin. Atheists think it's all just as useless as monopoly money.
What story is that CE ?...............when attributes work fine ..
" Yet in his most basic primordial state, man was universally religious"
I'm interested in what you base this on. I'm aware that there are indications that Neanderthal's may have had some belief in an afterlife, but why do you think man was religious, primordially?
You are certainly right that atheists are born every day. In fact there are 4.3 births per second and every one of those babies is an atheist. You have to be trained (brainwashed) into theism, and that takes years of indoctrination.
Satanists, however, are not born every 4.3 seconds, nor every day, nor ever, because Satan is a concoction of religion and requires the same relentless brainwashing to instill belief.
I think atheist don't agree on their own story.
Really? We agree that there is no evidence for a deity. After that, there's no need to discuss religion further.
Now, how many interpretations of your gods stories are there?
Yet in his most basic primordial state, man was universally religious.
Please cite the studies that prove this. Otherwise, it's just your opinion.
" Yet in his most basic primordial state, man was universally religious"
Could it be that he simply didn't have any understanding of the world around him? To early man everything was god. Thunder was god, lightning was god, rainbows were god, the sun was god, the moon, the stars, volcanos, earthquakes, etc, etc, all god or gods doing. Funny how we abolished all those gods when we understood what was really going on eh? So where does your god hide now?
"Could it be that he simply didn't have any understanding of the world around him?"
=>Nice move with the question mark as no one knows why sense of the supernatural is a trait common to 98% of world population today and noted in all recorded history of man down to perhaps the Neanderthal.
" To early man everything was god."
=>and trough this moment in time it still is to majority of the worlds population. Those that do not attribute everything to God substitute an alternate.
" Thunder was god, lightning was god....tc, etc, all god or gods doing. Funny how we abolished all those gods when we understood what was really going on eh?"
You confuse the false man made gods again with God. Even Saul of Tarsus 2,000 years ago had a better grip on the difference between man made gods and God. The Living God created thunder etc and when God was revealed Zeus was left behind with other man made gods.
" So where does your god hide now?"
=>right in your face Steve. The reality of God is before you as you make a fool of yourself. Even the High Priests had God right before their very eyes and they were the ones who carried out the sacrifice of the Passover lamb just as tradition taught them so well. Yep they crucified Christ on Passover just as they had done for 6,000 years.
A_Steve: "Could it be that he simply didn't have any understanding of the world around him?"
fred: Nice move with the question mark as no one knows why sense of the supernatural is a trait common to 98% of world population today and noted in all recorded history of man down to perhaps the Neanderthal."
Of course we know why it's a trait. It's human nature to be curious and creative. Folklore and mythology were born out of human creativity and fear. Some found a way to wield this and keep it in play to control and profit from others. Since the questions addressed by such mythology are have yet to be answered, it's only been too easy to keep the spam alive in the minds of the masses.
A_Steve: "To early man everything was god."
fred: "and trough this moment in time it still is to majority of the worlds population."
lol – and many of that same majority are mystified in how a broom works.
A_Steve: "So where does your god hide now?"
fred: "right in your face Steve. "
Let me know next time you can summon him up, fred. I have some work for him to do. Send him right over.
fred, They're all man-made gods; you have no more proof for yours than for the ones you dismiss.
Hello mama k .................. fredy and chadie are stuck in a tiny box and can not crawl out for the life of them !
You know that hairy sun fredy ?
Esau the hairy son did not believe and was willing to give up his birthright for a pot of stew. Not an atheist but into his own view of God. Perhaps you are speaking about one of the Egyptian gods? They were man made as is your science.
"Of course we know why it's a trait."
=>sorry, we do not know and we have no evidence that Steve's speculations have any objective value whatsoever.
" It's human nature to be curious and creative. Folklore and mythology were born out of human creativity and fear."
=>again you simply support the truths of the Bible. Zeus etc were man made by their nature and description as recorded in history. God has never been formed out of matter or energy known to man and at best given the likeness of a spiritual entity yet that is only a likeness of a form we do not the capacity to describe.
Because you lean towards naturalism you use the words human nature to describe what you cannot fully grasp. Man was made in the image of God and all we are and know is out of the creative attribute of God. In His likeness we are creative and have a fear of that which is not within that goodness. To fear God is to love God in Awe of majesty that has no words.
" Some found a way to wield this and keep it in play to control and profit from others"
=>there are always a few bad apples that abuse anything and anybody none of which is restricted to religion or evidence as cause for making up gods.
"Since the questions addressed by such mythology are have yet to be answered, it's only been too easy to keep the spam alive in the minds of the masses."
=>What we know for fact is that it remains the central and predominate world view that continues to drive our entire existence as we know it. It is not sight (scientific knowledge and or visible matter and energy) but by faith that it remains alive in the masses and that is a fact. Jesus offered no proof other than the sign of Jonah to the skeptics and said this is all you will receive. Well, it is a fact that to this day that is all you will receive. Just like Steve and the Priests that offered up the Perfect Lamb the non believers on this web site continue through their actions to confirm the message (you demand the sign desired by skeptics yet receive only the consistent and verifiable observation of hearts accepting God by faith and repenting of their sins.
"Let me know next time you can summon him up, fred. I have some work for him to do."
=>Gods presence is eternal and the kingdom Jesus brought clarity to is in the heart of those who truly believe. The Kingdom is now and is tapped into by faith.
"" It's human nature to be curious and creative. Folklore and mythology were born out of human creativity and fear."
=>again you simply support the truths of the Bible"
The Bible is primarily a book of religion, a guide to faith. it was not a book of history, poetry, economics, or science. It contains all sorts of literary genre, which are used to teach about the relationship between God and mankind. Even biblical history is edited history: events were chosen to illustrate the central theme of the Bible. The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel).
It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document.
"=>What we know for fact is that it remains the central and predominate world view that continues to drive our entire existence as we know it. It is not sight (scientific knowledge and or visible matter and energy) but by faith that it remains alive in the masses and that is a fact."
fred aka chad is lying and being deceptive again. Those that believe in the Christian god has remained constant throughout the years and hasn't grown at all. It has stayed at 33% while atheism has risen to 16%. Fred in his deceptiveness will try to include all religions in his argument even though it's not valid because he is referencing Jesus and the Christian god.
No error as to 98% of the world believing in some form of supernatural (something outside the natural i.e. known world) causation or purpose behind existence.
As to atheists that number less than 8% and of that 8% very few are actually what is technically termed "strong atheism". Your number of 16% includes theists to boot.
As to Christians 33% of 7,121,231,345 is a much bigger number of people than 33% of 5.3 billion people in 1990. Ten million new Christians were added to the roll of the faithful in the last 12 months alone. There are 10 million more reasons for you to realize that you are on the wrong side of reason.
Wrong time to cut and paste as history books supported by most historians reveal the same man made gods as I mentioned.
No error as to 98% of the world believing in some form of supernatural (something outside the natural i.e. known world) causation or purpose behind existence."
Thanks for proving you're a lying sack of shit Chad, since it can't be 98% when atheist represent 16%. We've been over this with you in other debates.
"As to Christians 33% of 7,121,231,345 is a much bigger number of people than 33% of 5.3 billion people in 1990. Ten million new Christians were added to the roll of the faithful in the last 12 months alone. There are 10 million more reasons for you to realize that you are on the wrong side of reason."
Again you're lying for your god. The population growth has been factored in and Christianity has remained the same and sometimes it has even dropped. We've been over this debate with you before. You are lying.
was Pete talking about world atheism or US atheism?
Worldwide atheist/agnostic/secular humanist is about 8%. It's less than that in the US (5.7% – 6.7%)
Worldwide the 'nones' are 16% and in the US 19%, but many of these are theists/deists or some kind of 'spiritual but not religious'.
For Pete's sake the percentage of Christians World wide from 1970 through 2008 was 33-34%. At best the percentage is down 1-2%. Since 1900 the percentage is 34-33% or if you want to avoid argument it could have been as high as 35% but not significant.
Since 1900 there are 1.7 billion more Christians walking the streets of the world. Have a cup of pete's and chill on the truth.
here is a good summary source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
Pete just did not have his coffee yet and skipped the small print that 16% of the world population included theists and others not affiliated with religion.
Exactly what is this great knowledge atheists have gathered in the last 200 years which proves there is no God? Oh, zip nadda just empty speculation.
God said he formed man from the dust of the earth. Have atheists discovered anything new .........nope we are still simply carbon based..........that's right out of the dust of the earth. We have become far more brilliant as to exactly what was in that dust but still not a clue that can be verified as to where that suddenly appeared from out of that which was not visible (or if it sounds better out of quantum gravitational phase).
"Exactly what is this great knowledge atheists have gathered in the last 200 years which proves there is no God? Oh, zip nadda just empty speculation."
Guess what fred you don't have any great knowledge of your god either and there is no proof of it. There is proof that the bible is not based on real facts and is not an historical document. LMAO!
Ok at least we are in agreement. There is no scientific evidence to support your belief regarding why we exist just as there is none for my belief that the purpose for our existence is to glorify God.
Your second point however I would differ. If you want to know the history of the dominate religion in the last 1,500 years you must reference the Bible and associated extant manuscripts (25,000 of them). As to Christianity the history of the beginning of Christianity starting with John the Baptist tracks all other accounts and is not in doubt. Acts is the foundation of the history of the Church.
Getting into the Old Testament many parts have been verified as historically accurate. It is not a book of history it is the history of the Chosen Ones going back to earliest family roots of the Jews and Muslims of today.
"If you want to know the history of the dominate religion in the last 1,500 years you must reference the Bible and associated extant manuscripts (25,000 of them). ""
The religion with the greatest increase in the last 1,500 years is likely Islam. From 0% to 21%. It is growing the fastest now.
While Christianity certainly grew rapidly with the colonization of Latin America in the 16th century, I wonder if it grew as much over the 1,500 years.
No hairy sun needed ...........freddy ...................big little bang
Hubble Maps 3-D Structure of Ejected Material Around Erupting Star
June 4, 2013 — A flash of light from a stellar outburst has provided a rare look at the 3-D structure of material ejected by an erupting nova.
"Your second point however I would differ. If you want to know the history of the dominate religion in the last 1,500 years you must reference the Bible and associated extant manuscripts (25,000 of them). As to Christianity the history of the beginning of Christianity starting with John the Baptist tracks all other accounts and is not in doubt. Acts is the foundation of the history of the Church."
That's why the largest research complex in the world has proven you wrong.
As Carl Jung observed: God's existence does not depend on our proofs.
Yet atheists continue to demand proof. They want god to be proved according to their criteria. This fails because their criteria is not relevant. No one knows what kind of data would be required to prove God. Such data would not be available to science. Science would not know how to collect such date, or how to evaluate it. Science would not recognize data about God if they saw it. Most importantly, science can measure and calculate a "what". But God is a "Who".
An attribute I will assign to CE and chadie the king and queen of trolls !
Show it will show up on a Bing search for sure !
Wherever we look, god isn't there. Maybe if god wasn't so invisible and undetectable, he'd not be so irrelevant.
A non-existent god also doesn't depend on our proofs.
Science answers a "what" with a "how".
But religion provides a "who" without a "why".
Hey CE and chad easy as a click away ?
Does Genesis 6:3 ring a bell? According to this verse, God is as flesh and blood as are all things of Life upon this atomized celestial barricade we call Earth. He gave himself but a hundred and twenty years to live out His Life among us eons ago in the time of Noah. He'd be long dead by now. Go figure!
Wherever we look, god isn't there. Maybe if god wasn't so invisible and undetectable, he'd not be so irrelevant..
God sees us.
We are God's imaginary friends!
"Yet atheists continue to demand proof. "
You mean like St Thomas did ? John 20:24 – 29
Thomas demands emprical proof. God / Jesus provides such proof
Atheists are taking the example of Thomas. Yet all we get is criticism ( sp? )
Yahweh's existence is indeed independent of proof, but belief in it is not independent of proof. Same goes for Santa, the tooth fairy, or Tim Tebow. Of the four, I believe only one exists.
Most thinking people require proof before they believe in the existence of something outlandish.
So Carl Jung is the god of god? Who appointed him the sole authority of what proof is needed for the existence of a god?
I agree that objective evidence would be required for a deity to be scientifically validated, which is why all you theists go on about your beliefs resign on faith. As for subjective evidence, many believers say that God has revealed himself to them or that they witnessed his existence indirectly through a miracle or answered prayer, but they also say that God just can't come down and prove his existence because of freewill. Well, which is it? Does God intervene in the lives of those who believe to the extent that it proves to them that he exists or doesn't he? If so, why couldn't an omnipotent, omniscient deity show itself to unbelievers in such a way that would convince them and provide the same kind of experience as those who claim to have seen the hand of God at work? An omniscient, omnipotent deity would surely know what it would take to convince me of its existence without having to directly show itself, right?
Sorry, that is resting on faith, not resign on faith.
Engineer, we have enough data to know that most of the stories in the bible are false.I don't know about proving or disproving a creator but to trust the bible as the word of god is nonsense.The bible is a fairy tale.
Yesterday morning there was a knock at my door. A pleasant and enthusiastic young couple were there.
John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"
John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the guts out of you."
Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."
Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."
Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"
John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the guts out of you."
Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"
John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"
Mary: "Well, maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."
Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"
John: "In this town, Hank is the same as good luck. All good things are attributed to Hank'"
Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the guts out of you."
Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."
Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"
John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me: "Who's Karl?"
Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
From the Desk of Karl
1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the guts out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the guts out of you.
Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."
Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the guts out of people just because they're different?"
Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me: "How do you figure that?"
Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."
Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."
Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
Me: "I'm not really an expert, but not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it plausible that it might be made of cheese."
John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists don’t know everything, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me: "We do?"
Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."
Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"
John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."
Me: "But...oh, never mind.
Nobody knocked on your door.
Hey 1-800 Atheist
They have on mine and I love it ........they even called the cops on me! ...........just have to take the chondrites out of pocket and they run for the hills !
Hey chadie........faithy too look what Isabell found ..............chad is the king and queen of trolls and faithy the beasty.
Chad just wondering should I assign an attribute to IT ?
you know and place it in your story deal ?
1-800, Does that sound familiar?
That post sound familiar? Yea, this dude posts it over and over.
And nobody reads it.
Whoever takes the time to read this bs is a fool...lemme sum it up nicely by saying Jesus is the answer to your questions!!
Yeah! Nobody reads this! except maybe those who just commented on it... oh and btw terry, nice come back :)
If your assuming I read it just because I made the comment you are wrong. I saw that crap and chose to save the people who would bother reading it. Don't! It is Atheist crappola.
I think it is pretty funny, and it is almost exactly like talking to a Christian who comes banging on your door on a Saturday morning.
You can comment without reading.
My point is – doG keeps spamming the board with this and there are usually no comments. Except when people say "stop spamming you a-h0le!".
oh how cute Dyslexic, a christard feeling persecuted by your comment...awesome job, your fellow Atheists still luv you in a friendly love thy fellow man sort of way. :-)
where's hank's ass? i could use a million dollars! and yes, jesus is the answer, as long as you keep kissing his ass. :D
1-900...to talk with a naked atheist.
1-800, Try reading it. Think of it as a parable. Then maybe you'll see how little sense your superstitions make.
Help! I keep trolling faith and belief blogs and arguing with people.
I've been doing this for months and months.
For some reason I keep coming back and talking about God (who I don't believe in).
What is wrong with me?
"What's wrong with me?"
You believe in equality for all people and don't believe in forcing your beliefs on others.
I know what's wrong with me. I'm sick of being oppressed in my own country by delusional folk who believe bronze age voodoo and the words of a nonsensical story book and yet want to make all the laws of the land to follow their foolishness..
I'm being oppressed, time to attack the CNN Belief blog message board!!!!
I love when atheists make fun of Christians for having a persecution complex...
...and then come on here and demonstrate their own persecution complex.
Religious and atheists – they have a lot in common!
I do what I can to make this country a better place for my kids. Mock me as you wish. Have a nice day.
It is difficult to claim repression when you are 76% of the population.
And you don't mock????????? Riiiiight! Come on! Be truthful.
I'm in a group that represents less than 1% of the population. If that.
Hello Caller . . .
Don't be alarmed, your behavior is perfectly natural. Humans have a morbid fascination with tragedy, for example, the "rubber-neckers" slowing down while passing a car accident. At Belief Blogs, you can witness similar tragedies where apologists attempt to rescue their beliefs from mangled wrecks of irrationality, logical fallacies, and an all too often misapplication of a woefully limited understanding of the relevant science. Granted, Belief Blogs is insidious in that, rather than just driving by the scene of the accident, one can stop and engage the negligent "driver" to try and figure out how they came to be in such an unenviable position. Although your interest in Belief Blogs isn't pathologic per se, it advised to limit your exposure to some of the more concentrated ignorance and crazy you'll encounter.
"I love when atheists make fun of Christians for having a persecution complex..."
Christians make up 76% of the population.
I'm not a 76%er.
It's called an inconsistent worldview which is inherent in atheistic thoughtlessness.
Lost and Found Department
Luke 19: 9 & 10
John 3:16 – 21
I can quote nonsensical bible quotes too.
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
“If a man’s testicIes are crushed or his pe nis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the Lord.”
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Leviticus – For the Tribe of Levi's Priests.
Are there any Levite priests from thousands of years ago posting on here?
Who follows the Old Testament?? Good reference material but we should adhere to the New Testament of the Bible. Just another moot point from Atheists.
"Who follows the Old Testament?? "
Answer: all the Christians who claim they follow the Ten Commandments . Oops,
They seem to be incapable of putting these quotes into context. They just take their limited understanding of them and try to apply them to others. And they keep coming back over and over.
@ Answer: all the Christians who claim they follow the Ten Commandments . Oops,
The 10 Commandments and the holiness code for Levite priests are 2 different things.
We can live by the spirit, not the law now.
That was so obvious to point out I don't know how to respond exactly...of course Christians follow the 10 commandments which are found in the Old Testament! What I am saying is the stuff Atheists are pointing out in the Old Testament. When Jesus came to the Earth and died, rose again...we are not subject to the old laws of the Old Testament any longer but through Christ are we now made whole.
No one believes every word of the Bible, but just pick and choose what they like. That's why there are so many Christian HYPOCRITES who pick on gays while ignoring the FAR FAR GREATER number of Christian ADULTERERS who have divorced and remarried. That's how Christians can pretend the Bible ever mentions abortion. It's all pick-and-choose HYPOCRISY. Next time, why not PICK the Golden Rule?
Why do these people post verses from the Bible that they don't even understand?
You do realize we discuss, critique and translate these verses in our communities?
We don't hide any of them or try to have them removed. There is a reason they are there – and probably not for the reason that atheists think.
HYPOCRISY is more of a human problem, than a Christian problem.
And Christians have earned their HYPOCRISY reputation. But I see many atheists on this site who act in just the same way.
I you point a finger at the Christian – don't forget there are 4 pointing back at you.
Some times we point out other people's flaws to avoid looking at our own.
I only have one finger on my left hand, so when I point at Christians I don't have any fingers pointing back at me.
Yeah, well, gay person here commenting on Leviticus. I never want to hear Leviticus being used again as a shield to discriminate against a group of people who were born differently from everyone else.
Of course, that won't happen, because of course, the excuse that it was meant as laws for priests won't apply to gay people, RIGHT? If Leviticus is irrelevant, why is it still included? Answer: to provide a built-in fall back excuse for Christians to discriminate. First thing I heard from my church once they foubd out I was gay was the handy Leviticus excuse.
Kiss. My. Ass.
Jesus said the law still stands (though perhaps in a slightly modified format). Paul says the law no longer applies.
Now who should I believe?
"I you point a finger at the Christian – don't forget there are 4 pointing back at you."
Do you point with your thumb? That's the only way you could get 4 fingers point back at you... (unless you are built real strange)
Caller- I need help, I need food and shelter
Atheist Help Line- Please call your church
More likely they would suggest something work-related or other non-religious charity of which there are many. Atheists on the whole are "teach a man to fish" people. This is very much unlike the church whose "give a man a fish" mentality is reminiscent of a pusher keeping an addict on the hook.
Atheist Help Line – please thank all the atheists who had to pay higher taxes to make up for what churches didn't pay so they could afford to give you food and shelter.
why is it again that churches pay no tax?
but.... if the church were doing its supposed job then why would this person need food an shelter?
You know the Red Cross is a secular organization, right?
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day;
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime;
Give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish"
Caller #2: Hello, I am seeking truth.
Atheist Hotline: Please press 1, for English, 2 for Espanol, 3 for GOD, 4 for Satan, 5 for your birth monkey, or stay on the line for the next idiot that picks up the line.
Click and Dial tone.
Caller #2: (kneeling and praying in their living room), Jesus, I am a sinner, forgive me, wash me clean, put your holy spirit in me, change me, I surrender to Your will (not mine), I want to follow you, please help me. I repent of my sins. You are the WAY, TRUTH and LIFE. Thank You.
JESUS answers, well done. Welcome to the family you are an adopted son (or daughter) and you now have access to the kingdom and external life. You sins have been forgiven by MY shed blood and death on the cross at Calvary, buried in a borrowed tomb, and rose on the third day. And, now live and reign in Heaven. Returning soon, love JESUS.
teach a man to preach and he'll never need to fish again.
@Anonymous, Well stated!!! when there is a direct line to Jesus why wait on the line for the next .....
"5 for your birth monkey,"
oh... priceless! Will the ignorance never end?
It's so funny how many religionists think that the Red Cross is a Christian organization because it has a cross on it.
The symbol of the Red Cross is the merely the Swiss flag with the colors reversed – it was founded in Switzerland.
Of course these days it is the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Cresent Societies. In his later life, the founder of the Red Cross (Henry Dunant) was agnostic.
When this happens, seek professional help.
Original poster hit the nail on the head.
Thread over. :)
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day;
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime;
Give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish;
Teach a man to preach and he'll never need to fish again.
Just so you know Atheists, any of you, if you were my neighbor or so, hungry and/or homeless and I know about it, I won't go to sleep before I made sure you have something to eat and place to stay, NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
A Born Again Christian
I'm not a GOPer,
Yes on the Red Cross. Also, people are not aware that St. Jude's Childrens Hospital, although founded by Catholic Danny Thomas, is WHOLLY SECULAR.
yes, and named for St. Jude – the patron saint of lost/hopeless causes – hence their work with childhood cancers.
DD you probably think it's because of some agreement that was made around the Johnson amendment, though I doubt if you recognize it by that name. Here's the real reason:
There is a distinction between constiitutionally separate “sovereigns.” For one sovereign entiity to tax another leaves the taxed one subservient to that authority. This is true both in the symbolic statement of paying the tax and in the practical effect of supporting the sovereign party. So, in our constiitutional structure, states may not tax each other, and they may not tax property of the federal government. The District of Columbia does not tax the property owned by foreign governments, and New York does not tax the property owned by the United Nations.
So, too, churches in America are not subservient to the government. The First Amendment to the Constiitution requires that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The Constiitution prevents the government from wielding its authority to control churches. Churches in this way differ from all other businesses and organizations. They are a unique instiitution whose existence is not derived from government authority, nor even from governmental acknowledgment. Churches preceded the birth of our nation and will remain long after its death. They transcend geographic and ethnic boundaries.
While the church is not subservient to the government, neither is the government subservient to the church. Although government can aid or support virtually all types of social or educational instiitutions which have a public purpose with the use of tax money, the Supreme Court stated in 1948 that “no tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or instiitutions.” Thomas Jefferson coined the highly referenced “wall of separation” between church and state (but not in the Constiitution, as many people claim). The separation he referred to must be bilateral and reciprocal. Whatever the degree of separation required by the Constiitution, it is surely this: the government may not make the church subservient by taxing its existence.'
that's a nice little apologia you have written there.
The Johnson Amendment prohibits tax-exempt organizations (including churches) from endorsing a candidate.
Income tax is a recent invention. Tax-exempt status has been applied to churches for a long time but one of the earliest references does not appear until the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act of 1894.
The tax exemption to churches is derived from first amendment rights and not because the United States recognizes the soverignty of churches. Limits can be placed on first amendment rights, as they are with free speech and assembly. (Limits can be place on 2nd amendment rights too.)
Vic: Newsflash...the Red Cross is secular.
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