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June 11th, 2013
01:35 PM ET

Pope Francis: `Gay lobby' exists inside Vatican

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - Pope Francis said a “gay lobby” exists inside the Vatican, a surprising disclosure from a pope who has already delivered his share of stunners, and a resurrection of church conflicts that had bedeviled his predecessor's papacy.

“In the Curia,” Francis said, referring to Catholicism’s central bureaucracy, “there are holy people. But there is also a stream of corruption.”

“The 'gay lobby' is mentioned, and it is true, it is there,” Francis continued. “We need to see what we can do.”

READ MORE: The pope said what? Six stunners from Francis

Hints that the Holy See contained a network of gay clergy surfaced last year in reports about a series of embarrassing leaks to Italian journalists.

The "Vatileaks" scandal factored in Pope Emeritus Benedict XIV's shocking decision to resign earlier this year, according to some church experts, as it impressed upon the 86-year-old pontiff that the modern papacy requires a vigorous and watchful presence.

Francis' enigmatic comments came during a meeting Sunday with CLAR, the Latin American and Caribbean Confederation of Religious Men and Women, who head Catholic communities of priests, sisters and monks.

The Chilean website Reflection and Liberation, which focuses on Catholic theology, first reported Francis’ remarks. The Catholic blog Rorate Caeli translated the report into English.

A Vatican spokesman told CNN, "The Holy See Press Office has no official comment on the private meeting."

Gay and lesbian Catholic groups did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

The Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests said, "structure, not sexuality, is the real issue."

"The church is a monarchy. Monarchs are unaccountable. So many monarchs are corrupt. This is true in both secular and religious institutions," SNAP said in a statement.

Other Catholics counseled caution about reading too much into the pope's remarks.

"We don't have any explanation of what 'gay lobby' means," said Rocco Palmo, a Vatican watcher who runs Whispers in the Loggia, a website on Catholic news and church politics.

"Naturally, some in the church will try to polarize or interpret this, but as the rest of us aren't pope, we still have to get further explanation," Palmo added.

Church experts say the Chilean report rings true since the wide-ranging conversation centers on concerns that Francis has made touchstones of his nascent papacy.

In contrast to the buttoned-up Benedict, Francis has earned an early reputation for speaking off the cuff, often ditching prepared remarks in favor of more informal conversations.

On Friday, Francis nixed his “boring” speech and instead took questions from young Catholic students. Asked by a little girl if he wanted to be pope, Francis laughed and said that only someone who “doesn’t love himself” would want the position.

Last month, the pope sparked a worldwide debate by suggesting that atheists might be able to earn a spot in heaven.

"He has said some things that would turn Benedict whiter than the papal vestments," Palmo joked.

Francis told the Catholic leaders on Sunday to focus on the poor, that the Vatican must be reformed, and joked that whoever wagered on his long-shot election as pope “won a lot, of course.”

But his comments on the "gay lobby" are likely to gain the most attention, especially in the West, where Catholic leaders have been mounting a fierce fight against same-sex marriage.

After Benedict announced his resignation in February, reports circulated that a “gay lobby” had forced his hand.

Cardinals appointed by the former pope to find the source of the leaks investigated high-level Vatican clergy involved in homosexual affairs who might have been vulnerable to blackmail, according to La Repubblica, a leading Italian newspaper.

La Repubblica reported that the cardinals found evidence of a “gay lobby” within the Vatican but gave few details about it.

"Some high level clergy are exposed to the `external influence' – what we would call blackmail – of lay people to whom they are connected through ties of a `worldly nature,'" La Repubblica wrote.

The Vatican blasted the newspaper reports as “unverified, unverifiable and completely false.”

Francis is one of the few Catholic leaders to have seen the Vatican report.

The so-called Vatileaks scandal led to Benedict's butler, Paolo Gabriele, being convicted on charges last year of leaking private papers from the the pope's private office. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

'Gay lobby' behind pope's resignation? Not likely

John Allen, CNN’s senior Vatican analyst, has said it would have been odd if the Vatican report had not considered the possibility that "insiders leading a double life," including sexually active clergy, might be vulnerable to pressure to betray the pope.

“It seems a stretch, however, to suggest this is the real reason," behind Benedict's resignation, Allen said.

In one of his first actions as pope, Francis created a council of eight cardinals, including Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston,  to offer suggestions on reforming the Vatican.

“The reform of the Roman Curia is something that almost all Cardinals asked for in the congregations preceding the Conclave,” Francis said, referring to the meetings that led up to his election in March. “I also asked for it.”

But Francis said that he cannot promote the reform himself. “I am very disorganized,” he said, adding, “I have never been good at this.”

Instead, the pope said, he is relying on his eight appointed cardinals to move the reforms forward.

CNN's Richard Greene contributed to this report. 

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Belief • Catholic Church • Christianity • Church • Gay rights • gender issues • Homosexuality

soundoff (1,872 Responses)
  1. AverageJoe76

    And if the Quran has any scientific 'facts' in it, is it now the 'Word Of God' because it was before some offical scientific discovery? Ask a christian....

    June 12, 2013 at 10:47 am |
  2. Reality

    Dear Francis,

    o "Abrahamics" like yourself believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore gays are gay because god made them that way.

    To wit:

    1. The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    2. "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    3. See also the From the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
    "Most scientists who study human se-xuality agree that gay people are born that way. But that consensus raises an evolutionary puzzle: How do genes associated with h-omose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?"
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/evolution/Gay-gene-deconstructed.html

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:44 am |
  3. Bill D.

    "Pope Francis said a “gay lobby” exists inside the Vatican" WOW!!! What an understatement.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:43 am |
  4. Bostontola

    Christians,
    Think about how you feel about the gods from other religions. I bet to most Christians, the feeling about those gods range from not reality to absurd. That's how the majority of people on this planet feel about your god.

    Why is it so easy to see the folly in every other religion but your own.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:42 am |
  5. Huh?

    "http://www.webmd.com/sx/anl-sx-health-concerns

    Here is what needs to be added at the end –> change the sx to the actual word and change anl to the actual word"

    Sociologists and psychologists hold that some of the emotionality in prejudice stems from subconscious attitudes that cause a person to ward off feelings of inadequacy by projecting them onto a target group. That's right folks homophobic people like this are just insecure and immature.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • Bill

      Ah yes, not addressing the issues again. When I get home and kiss my wife and 5 children, I will consider your thoughts on me actually being a closeted gay. Never been interested in men - your thing belongs in a specific hole. In our Huxleyan world today, it doesn't matter what hole you use. Thank Griswold for that one...

      June 12, 2013 at 11:46 am |
  6. palintwit

    Wouldn't it be hilarious if a gay couple moved in next door to Sarah Palin? I would love to see her head explode.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • Alias

      Are you assuming gay men, or gay women?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • palintwit

      Alias... it wouldn't make any difference. She's an equal opportunity bigot.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:47 am |
  7. Bill

    Go to this web page:

    http://www.webmd.com/sx/anl-sx-health-concerns

    Here is what needs to be added at the end –> change the sx to the actual word and change anl to the actual word

    CNN is blocking the truth about the 'gay' lifestyle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    June 12, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • Observer

      Bill,

      Tell us what it says instead of imagining that CNN has it in for you.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • .

      Oh look the homophobic troll is back.
      "Bill" who degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "The Truth" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Thinker23" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian..

      June 12, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Bill, your closeted homosexuality is showing...

      June 12, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      argh! futsba! ugga ugga blort!! BOOM!

      June 12, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Lifestyle???
      Don't know too many gays, do you? Not one of the ones I know chose to be gay, at least not any more than you chose to be hetero.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • Alias

      How would this apply to lesbians?
      Or aren't they gay enough for you to hate them?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • Bill

      Wow, Observer, that is a great cut and paste you are doing. I feel so humbled by your acuity.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • sam stone

      thinking a lot about anal sx, billy boy?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:54 am |
  8. Bill

    I just want everyone to know that the thought police are now here! I can't believe CNN is silencing comments. Freedom of speech??????????????????????

    June 12, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • sam stone

      freedom of speech does not apply to private organizations, billy boy

      June 12, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Bill

      Sam, do you want to have an actual debate, or is invective, snarky remarks and puerile humor enough for you?

      June 12, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • sam stone

      Billy Boy: Your post called for no more than snarky comments.

      June 12, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • sam stone

      If you find my comments offensive, take a quarter, place it flat on your forehead and hit it as hard as you can with a hammer.

      June 12, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • sam stone

      What part of your verbal diarrhea do you feel justified a debate? Do you feel that a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION should be accepting of all comments?

      June 12, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
  9. Bible

    I know what you're thinking. Can donkeys really talk? Yep, we have a verse for that.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:26 am |
  10. Good Timing

    This revelation could not have come at a better time when many countries around the world are accepting Gays and Lesbians as well as their marriage. And also here in this country at a time when so many states are flocking to grant Gays their rights of marriage and equality. Yes, the timing of Pope Francis' revelation comes Perfectly as the SCOTUS gets ready to hand down its ruling on two major Gay issues. No doubt this revelation will help them to further understand that even the Vatican acknowledges Gays exist within their walls and that can only help the cases before them.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Sue

      Yup, does any state want to go down in history as the last one to deny gay marriage? I'm sure Alabama is proud to have been the last state to make interracial marriage legal.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:29 am |
  11. Bible

    Feeling bad about killing the kid down the street who laughed at your haircut? Don't. We have a verse for that.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:04 am |
    • Alias

      LOL!
      Excellent post!

      But please, for the love of god, do not get this group started with posts like this.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:25 am |
  12. Andres

    So what is he gonna do? an inquisition to see how many gay Cardinals in the Vatican? Pope Francis is about to open the biggest can of worms.

    June 12, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • Already Done

      About to open? Andres? Looks like he sure already has!

      June 12, 2013 at 11:15 am |
  13. Science

    Salvation Army says “Gays Need to Be Put to Death”

    by David Volz posted on June 10, 2013 08:15PM GMT

    http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/6/10/salvation-army-says-gays-need-to-be-put-to-death#

    June 12, 2013 at 10:01 am |
    • Sue

      Too bad, the Sally Ann was the last Christian charity I had any real respect for. This guy was just one officer in Australia, but unless they denounce his comments officially, I can't honestly say that I can support any Christian charity in good conscience any more.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Science

      Sue

      Laws of Association

      You would think they would

      June 12, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • Alias

      @Sue

      Look up the Salvation Army's charter.
      They are one hard core bible thumping bunch of bigots.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • Pete

      "Look up the Salvation Army's charter.
      They are one hard core bible thumping bunch of bigots."

      There are many religious charity's that if they know the donations are coming from gay people they won't accept it.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Alias: Absolutely...my family belongs to the SA and have disowned me due to my Atheism. I have a cousin who is lesbian who has also been disowned.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • Sue

      I'm up in Canada, and here they're a church, but they're also all about the charity. Who knows what's hiding behind those closed church doors, eh?

      June 12, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
  14. Anti-Catholic

    How dare this child molester pimp make a statement like this!? No self-respecting gay person would denounce themselves to claim any affiliation with his sick cult of perverts.

    June 12, 2013 at 9:48 am |
    • Cora

      Who you talkin to?

      June 12, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • KeninTexas

      Speaking for yourself?

      June 12, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Bill

      It is the sick pervs (gays) who have sickened our Church. Abuse of all the children was done by degenerates influenced by the Dionysian cult still present today.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • Pete

      "It is the sick pervs (gays) who have sickened our Church. Abuse of all the children was done by degenerates influenced by the Dionysian cult still present today."

      Oh look another uneducated Christian. The fact you don't know the difference between a pedophile and a homosexual shows you're an idiot.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • .

      "It is the sick pervs (gays) who have sickened our Church. Abuse of all the children was done by degenerates influenced by the Dionysian cult still present today."

      "Bill" who degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "The Truth" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Thinker23" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian..

      June 12, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • eddie too

      you are too, too funny anti-catholic. you cannot possibly be serious. no one else is taking you seriously. carry on, we enjoy your humor.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • PDfromToledo

      You know nothing of the hatred you spew.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • sam stone

      "It is the sick pervs (gays) who have sickened our Church"

      What's the matter, Billy Boy? Did the good father not give you the common courtesy of a reach around?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:58 am |
  15. Shakey Daddy

    If he thinks the lobby is gay, wait until he sees the grand ballroom.

    June 12, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • WASP

      XD ROFLMFAO

      June 12, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • Al

      Thank you.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:01 am |
  16. snapjudy

    Because of the ***ual activity within the Vatican Curia and within dioceses church hierarchy, when supposedly celibate men (gay or straight) can take advantage of their power, the *** abuse of innocent children and vulnerable adults goes on without punishment.

    It is the system that is corrupt:
    Say a bishop or other clergy is living a ***ually active life, (that which they preach so strongly against) and then, say a child predator clergy is found to be ***ually abusing kids. So when the bishop calls him into his office to reprimand him, the child predator then says, " You can't tell on me, because I will tell on you". Also this messed up system causes other ***ually active clergy to keep their mouths shut when it comes to reporting child *** crimes to law enforcement.

    And so this causes the "*** abuse that thrives in secrecy and secret systems which allow it to continue to this day."
    The Catholic church officials are not capable of cleaning up their own mess, because the corruption is so embedded within the power system.

    We urge outside law enforcement and legislators to seriously get involved by investigating and prosecuting the high ranking church officials for their crimes of enabling and empowering ***ual predators to abuse more kids.
    The problem is not so much about ***, it is more about the abuse of their power.

    Reducing their power is the only way that children are ever going to be safe within this corrupt system.

    Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, USA,
    "SNAP (The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests)

    June 12, 2013 at 9:41 am |
    • KeninTexas

      As usual, you never let a chance to slip by without getting on the blogs to stir up some business for your corrupt outfit.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • Vic

      Regardless of being straight or gay, I believe ALLOWING Ordained Ministry to have s e x u a l relations at all is the ONLY solution to such corruption!

      June 12, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Sue

      Vic
      Are you saying that there aren't any corrupt married protestant pastors? Does Jim Bakker ring any bells?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • Vic

      Romans 3:9,19
      "9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,

      “There is none righteous, not even one;...""

      All Scripture Is From:

      New American Standard Bible (NASB)

      Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

      http://www.biblegateway.com/

      We are ALL corrupt & sinful!

      Regarding Jim Bakker, I remember after he got out of prison, and while addressing people being critical of him, he said to his audience on his show "...ladies and gentlemen, if I don't have redemption you don't!.."

      No Christian is without Redemption!

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/11/my-take-gay-christian-is-not-an-oxymoron/comment-page-12/#comment-2339158

      In the meantime, above, I am proposing a measure to reduce the chances of s e x u a l l y abusing c h i l d r e n by Ordained Ministry!

      June 12, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • Vic

      Romans 3:9,10
      "9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,

      “There is none righteous, not even one;...""

      All Scripture Is From:

      New American Standard Bible (NASB)

      Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

      http://www.biblegateway.com/

      We are ALL corrupt & sinful!

      Regarding Jim Bakker, I remember after he got out of prison, and while addressing people being critical of him, he said to his audience on his show "...ladies and gentlemen, if I don't have redemption you don't!.."

      No Christian is without Redemption!

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/11/my-take-gay-christian-is-not-an-oxymoron/comment-page-12/#comment-2339158

      In the meantime, above, I am proposing a measure to reduce the chances of s e x u a l l y abusing c h i l d r e n by Ordained Ministry!

      June 12, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • sam stone

      we are all corrupt and sinful? wow, you swallowed that hook, line and sinker.

      June 12, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Sue

      Vic
      If you mean that nobody's perfect, so what?

      June 12, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
  17. Science

    Wow some fruitcake from xmas past ...................and he is the Mayor. at least 3 got it correct !

    Fla. Mayor Objects to Humanist Week Because Group Doesn't 'Believe in Jesus Christ'

    Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/fla-mayor-objects-to-humanist-week-because-group-doesnt-believe-in-jesus-christ-97562/#gmsx9mc9zyshz4kz.99

    June 12, 2013 at 9:40 am |
  18. whaaaaat

    To I am God
    u an atheist but u say u God hahaha talk about contradiction anyways yeah the bible is inspired by God and the proof can be seen from the fact that before their was telescopes etc the bible said the earth is a circle and hanging on nothing whereas professors and so forth said its flat and being balanced on the back of a turtle carrying an elephant anything anyone?

    June 12, 2013 at 9:29 am |
    • AverageJoe76

      Please show us where it says that in the Bible? About the shape of Earth

      June 12, 2013 at 9:30 am |
    • Lore

      Isaiah 40:22 says He who sits above the circle of the earth. Job 26:7 says hangeth the earth upon nothing. DO SOME BASIC RESEARCH YOURSELF. Or perhaps you're not aware that the Bible ALSO says LAZINESS IS A SIN.

      June 12, 2013 at 9:34 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      The earth is sphere shaped, it isnt a circle. I guess that makes the bible garbage. That, and all the other nonsense in it. Unicorns anyone?

      June 12, 2013 at 9:36 am |
    • khepera420

      Yes, please give us a quote. And while you're at it, please identify a couple of these flat-earth "professors."

      June 12, 2013 at 9:37 am |
    • Cora

      To those of you who are insecure in your atheism...So What? No one in that day would have understood that the earth was a sphere and to the naked eye, it is.

      There are plenty of strange things written in the Bible, including prophesies that have happened. Obviously the God of the Bible was not concerned with so called "Scientific Accuracy." If anyone has an honest mind and has a parent or relative as a scientist we know that they are not completely objective and perfect either. In fact we see them choose what they believe and fit that in with their hypothesis. Besides this article is not about everybody wise up and believe atheism, it is about an honest pope. Does that threaten you?

      June 12, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • sam stone

      hanging on nothing?

      June 12, 2013 at 9:45 am |
    • tallulah13

      Is that original post supposed to make sense?

      And Cora, no pope is a threat to atheists. They no longer have the power to burn us alive or imprison us for having the audacity to realize that there is no proof of any god. What I don't understand is how you can acknowledge that the bible is full of errors, yet still believe it is the word of god. I will never understand such blind, irrational faith.

      June 12, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • Cora

      To stone and whaat, the "hanging on nothing" proves that the words in the Bible didn't believe in Apollo or the Elephant. And what is it hanging on? The Bible is not a book of science it is a book of faith in God. To those of you who don't need God or haven't been in a fox hole, fine. But watch your family burn in a house, or lay there dying in bed with cancer tell me that you don't pray!!!

      June 12, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • Cora

      I think Tallulah you are unchurched. LOL. This is not your culture and most of the people trolling in the belief section are trolls. I meant to say to the naked eye the earth looks like a circle. That is what ancient people who read this book Daily would have understood. Apparently you are not aware of Christians who die daily and Christians who have died in the twentieth century by the hands of atheist controlling rulers. Here in the US we have never seen this and to your shallow site of view, it doesn't exist!

      June 12, 2013 at 10:01 am |
    • Sue

      Cora
      "so called "Scientific Accuracy.""
      Come on, most elementary children know that bats aren't birds, that pi isn't equal to an even 3, and that insects don't walk on "all fours". Most wouldn't believe that there is a solid "firmament" up in the sky either, and Genesis teaches that the Earth was made before the sun. This isn't just a trivial bit of inaccuracy. Nor is the creationist insistence that the universe is only 6000 years old. Compared to our best evaluation of the actual age it's like saying that the distance between New York and LA is only a few yards. They're not only wrong, but they're waaaay wrong. If the Bible is supposed to be true beyond what the people who authored it could know by themselves then you'd think that they would have gotten these things right, wouldn't you?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      LET's Religiosity Law #7 – If you think the bible is historical fact of the creation of the Universe, Earth or Mankind and believe without a doubt that some Jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat of his flesh, drink of his blood, and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master; so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a sinful woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree! Then you are an award-winning retard.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:05 am |
    • Joey

      To the naked eye Earth looks like a sphere. Circles are flat, and the bible got it wrong. Of course this is just one of many things the bible got wrong.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • Pete

      "Apparently you are not aware of Christians who die daily and Christians who have died in the twentieth century by the hands of atheist controlling rulers. "

      Oh look another uneducated Christian, it's not an atheist controlling ruler, they were totalitarian. They sought total authority, which means getting rid of religions which would compete with that authority. The pursuit of atheism was not the cause for the bloodshed; it was the pursuit of control over a people. Take a history class.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • Huh?

      "This is not your culture and most of the people trolling in the belief section are trolls"

      Seeing as your name hasn't come up much on these blogs how do you know people are trolling. It's because you are the troll who posts under multiple handles daily insulting atheists.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • tallulah13

      Cora, humans have worshiped literally thousands of gods throughout history and there is no proof that any of those gods exists, not even yours. You are desperately clinging to a myth and making excuses for it because you choose to, but not everyone has that need. I don't need to be "churched" to understand reality from falsehood. All I need is common sense and a knowledge of history. There is no logical reason to believe in any god, especially the contradictory and ignorant god of the bible.

      I'm sure you'll have some retort. I'm not ignoring you, but I am headed off to work. Have a nice day.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Jim

      To averagejoe76, read Isaiah 40, verse 22.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • sam stone

      cora: i watched my mom die of emphysema, and i did not pray

      prayer is purporting to know better than god. sort of blasphemous, no?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • Sue

      Cora
      But, if you're arguing that the writers of the Bible just wrote in their personal perceptions of things, then aren't you making a case for them inventing everything they say about God out of their own minds?

      If the Earth looked round to them then maybe it just looked created to them as well. If the biblical writers put in their personal perceptions and opinions about some things, how do you know that what they say about God isn't also just their own personal perceptions and opinions?

      June 12, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • AverageJoe76

      Geez.... "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth......" Alright, so let's play. Sun looks like a circle, the moon looks like a circle. Why wouldn't I say the Earth is a circle? Points of light in the night sky look like....... [GASP]....... circles. So... was it divine to describe the Earth as a circle too? Idk...... faith stretches. Science goes for the jugular on facts.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • MM

      "u an atheist but u say u God"

      Irony is lost on you, isn't it?

      June 12, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • MM

      "the bible said the earth is a circle and hanging on nothing whereas professors and so forth said its flat and being balanced on the back of a turtle carrying an elephant anything anyone?"

      Some myths said that, perhaps, but the Greeks and Mayans knew the earth was a sphere (not circle).

      Also, punctuation is your friend.

      June 12, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
  19. bob baden

    Thought 1: The best way to avoid blackmail....hide nothing. Thought 2: How much of our time and pity does the church think we have for them when they refuse to change with the times. Couldn't count the amount of people I know who have reluctantly left the church as it quickly surpassing the KKK as the number one hate group.

    June 12, 2013 at 9:29 am |
    • Lore

      God is the same today that he was 4,000 years ago. You are demanding God bend his will to YOURS. Arrogant, to say the least. But not the first to live to say it, AND WON'T BE THE LAST TO DIE REGRETTING IT.

      June 12, 2013 at 9:35 am |
    • WASP

      @lore: "You are demanding God bend his will to YOURS. "

      correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that what you are doing when you pray? 😉

      June 12, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • sam stone

      "God is the same today that he was 4,000 years ago."

      Non existant?

      "But not the first to live to say it, AND WON'T BE THE LAST TO DIE REGRETTING IT."

      Blah, blah, fvcking blah

      June 12, 2013 at 9:48 am |
    • Sue

      Lore
      If God is the same guy now as in Old Testament times then why aren't more believers killing their disobedient children and selling their daughters into slavery? At the very least you have to admit that the fellow has mellowed a whole lot in his old age, going from "smite them all" to "God is LOVE".

      June 12, 2013 at 9:50 am |
    • Eric G

      "WASP

      @lore: "You are demanding God bend his will to YOURS. "

      correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that what you are doing when you pray?"

      And...... That is Jenga.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      You gotta laugh when the christards lose their vespers... and start ranting their pathetic empty proxy threats about a god that we don't believe in.

      June 12, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • sam stone

      Lucifer's Evil Twin: It is because it makes them feel all godly and powerful. In actuality, they are as impotent as the object of their worship

      June 12, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
  20. wisdomVSknowledge

    Gay people have existed long before the church. It's true, Greece has a private museum full of artifacts to prove it. Back when these items were artistically created the gay people were referred to as the third gender and were fully accepted. It was Constantine and his mysterious chamber of counselors that created the Holy Bible that excluded them as well as established other matters of prejudice. The questions Christians need to be asking themselves today is this... If being gay was such a terrible offense then why didn't Jesus address the matter. After all he covered everything from corruption among the Pharisees, fortification, adultery, gluttony, drunkenness, etc. The answer is quite simple... to Christ it was NOT an issue. Now I know some will quickly point to the Apostle Paul and his writings, however, it has yet to be proven that Paul wrote those books (true, you can Google it). In several passages Paul (if it was him) even wrote ahead of his classic statements things like, "I say, not the Lord, but I." So, the church must therefore filter out anything following such a statement, because they are Paul's opinion, not divine inspiration. Opinions are like rectums, everyone has one and some stink more than others.

    June 12, 2013 at 9:27 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.