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June 14th, 2013
04:05 PM ET

Superman: Flying to a church near you

By Eric Marrapodi, Co-Editor CNN Belief Blog

Baltimore, Maryland (CNN) - As the new Superman movie takes flight this weekend, filmmakers are hoping the Man of Steel lands not only in theaters, but also in pulpits.

Warner Bros. Studios is aggressively marketing "Man of Steel" to Christian pastors, inviting them to early screenings, creating Father’s Day discussion guides and producing special film trailers that focus on the faith-friendly angles of the movie.

The movie studio even asked a theologian to provide sermon notes for pastors who want to preach about Superman on Sunday. Titled “Jesus: The Original Superhero,” the notes run nine pages.

“How might the story of Superman awaken our passion for the greatest hero who ever lived and died and rose again?” the sermon notes ask.

(Disclaimer: CNN, like Warner Bros., is owned by Time Warner.)

Similar campaigns to corral the country's large number of Christians into the movie theater have been used for "Les Miserables," "Soul Surfer" and "The Blind Side," all of which had at least some faith angle.

Baltimore pastor Quentin Scott is among dozens of ministers who received an e-mail invitation from Grace Hill Media, a Hollywood-based Christian marketing firm, to an early screening of “Man of Steel.”

“There was an actual push to say `We’re putting out something that speaks to your group,' ” said Scott, one of the pastors of Shiloh Christian Community Church in Baltimore.

At first, Scott said, he didn’t buy the religious pitch. Then he decided to attend a free midweek screening in Baltimore.

“When I sat and listened to the movie I actually saw it was the story of Christ, and the love of God was weaved into the story," said the pastor.

"It was something I was very excited about that with the consultation of our senior pastor, we could use in our congregation.”

CNN Entertainment: 'Man of Steel' director Zack Snyder on Superman's Christ-like parallels

Grace Hill’s sermon notes are specially designed for churches like Shiloh that integrate multimedia into their services.

“Let’s take a look at the trailer for `Man of Steel,’” the notes suggest after briefly introducing the movie’s history and themes.

The man behind the notes, Pepperdine University professor Craig Detweiler, has prepared similar material for films like 2009’s "The Blind Side" and "The Book of Eli" from 2010.

The spiritual themes in “Man of Steel” are abundant, Detweiler said, and his notes enable Christians to thoughtfully engage with pop culture instead of shunning it.

“All too often, religious communities have been defined by what they're against. With a movie like `Man of Steel,’ this is a chance to celebrate a movie that affirms faith, sacrifice and service,” Detweiler said.

It will be hard for even casual Christians to miss the messianic metaphors in "Man of Steel.”

The movie focuses on the origins of Superman, who was sent from the planet Krypton as an infant to save his species.

He is raised by surrogate parents who help him grapple with his special powers, even though they don’t fully understand the source of his extraordinary abilities.

When he turns 33, Superman must willingly sacrifice himself to save the human race.

Sound familiar?

If that’s not enough, as a boy Clark Kent is shown wrestling with his superpowers, and asks his earthly dad, Jonathan Kent, “Did God do this to me?”

“Somewhere out there you have another father and he sent you here for a reason,” says Jonathan Kent.

Even the visuals hammer home the messianic motifs.

During a fight with his archenemy, General Zod, Superman plunges down to Earth, his arms outstretched as if he were being crucified. Of course, he rises again.

Detweiler writes in the sermon notes, “What Jesus and Superman both give us, through their `hero’ actions but also their `human’ actions – is hope.”

“I think it’s a very good thing that Hollywood is paying attention to the Christian marketplace,” said Ted Baehr, who runs Movieguide, a website that reviews family friendly films from a Christian perspective.

“Where it gets sticky is when they try to manipulate the market and when Christians try to manipulate Hollywood. But here I think we have the right balance.”

But other Christians are heaving a supersized sigh at the movie marketing.

"Any pastor who thinks using `Man of Steel Ministry Resources' is a good Sunday morning strategy must have no concept of how high the stakes are, or very little confidence in the power of God’s word and God’s spirit," writes P.J. Wenzel, a deacon and Sunday School teacher at Dublin Baptist Church in Ohio.

"As they entertain their congregants with material pumped out from Hollywood’s sewers, lives are kept in bondage, and people’s souls are neglected," according to Wenzel, who said he was e-mailed information about the movie.

Scott, the Baltimore pastor, said he knows that Warner Bros. Studios has a financial incentive in pushing the film to pastors.

But he said that’s fine with him. “They’re using us but in fact we’re using them,” he said.

His church won't show clips from the movie this weekend because it had already planned out its service. But he plans to use them later, during meetings with the church’s men’s group.

“If you give me another opportunity to talk to someone about Jesus Christ, and I can do that because of your movie, that’s a win for me, because it is about spreading the Gospel.”

CNN's Erin McPike contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Celebrity • Christianity • Church • Entertainment • Media • Movies

soundoff (6,545 Responses)
  1. Orneree

    I saw the movie and it is NOT a movie you want to point kids to, due mature language–even from kids.
    So if someone plans on encouraging families to go, then remember the language is kind of super harsh for a superman movie.

    June 17, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Ken

      Yeah, no problems with reading stories about genocide and the heros of God who commit it, but for heaven's sake don't expose your kids to harsh language! Way to parent!

      June 17, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • lol??

      superman don't need no stupid stinkin' socie word filter.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • David

      If you are looking for really mature themes you need to look into these old scandalous scrolls called the bible. R ape, Inc est, slavery, murder, war, genocide, infanticide, blood drinking, flesh eating, dragons, unicorns, talking Donkeys, you'd think it was just another rated "R" Shrek sequel mixed with True Blood and Game of Thrones...

      June 17, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • lol??

      Socialists make up their own morality with a mob. Mobs are gud at making fiction and seared CONsciences. Ain't political and social science wunnerful?? Dick Cheney even swam with those fish.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
  2. ReligionIsBS

    because he just realized how big of a narcasicts he is.

    June 17, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Bill

      Let’s resolve our differences, RB

      June 17, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Definitions

      Religion: 1.The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

      Is: 3rd person singular present of be

      Bull: adult male of the species Bos taurus (cattle)

      Shlt: Waste matter discharged from the bowels; excrement.

      What differences do you speak of? The OP said it all in his name.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Bill

      The difference is whether or not my question below was narcissistic.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Definitions

      narcissis: egotist: characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance

      Bill – "I believe the creator of the universe listens to my prayers and actively works in my life, because apparently God finds me more pleasing than those starving children, but that's not MY choice, that's Gods choice, so i'm not full of myself at all..."

      June 17, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
  3. Agnostickids

    Over 26,000 children will die of starvation today.

    Why should God answer YOUR prayers????

    June 17, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • Bill

      Why are you insulting us?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • ME II

      @Bill,
      Why do you feel insulted?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Bill

      B/c this guy is insulting Christianity.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      god didn't like those particular 26,000 children... perhaps they pissed him off somehow?...

      June 17, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      he feels insulted because he just realized how big of a narcasicts he is.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Ken

      If it didn't involve stealing food from farmers like his dad, don't you think that Superman would at last try to save those kids? All Jesus has to do is magically make the food appear. If it's a choice between the alien from Krypton and the man-god of Nazareth I know who I would choose as most human.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • ME II

      @Bill,
      Some of the other comments are a bit gratuitous, but this one is actually a good question. Why would anyone expect God to answer prayers when 1000s of children die every day?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • Bill

      Narcissist? Where did you get that impression, ReligionBS?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • Knights Who Say...

      .
      NEE!!
      .

      June 17, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • Bill

      ME II, I do not know the answer to that.

      If God does exist then only He knows the answer.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • David

      Insults can never be given, only taken. If you feel insulted by this comment then you know it's true. If it were not true it wouldn't even bother you like if I said "all people who pray have lice which are the creatures their head senses it's praying to." That probably didn't bother you a bit did it.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • Bill

      David, it wasn’t with this comment. It was his one on the last page.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      bill, But that's just sidestepping the question. Why would anyone have faith in a god, for which believers claim omnipotence and omniscience, when it clearly allows so much poverty, starvation, disease, war, etc. ?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Hail Mary full of lice... blessed art thou among women...

      June 17, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Bill

      Personally, it is belief that the children suffering will be rewarded in the afterlife.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      The better question is why would we have faith in a creator who performs at the will and whim of the creation.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Bill

      Luc, That’s what I am talking about. You don’t have to insult us.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:38 am |
    • The Demon Deacon

      The better question is why would we have faith in a creator who never answers prayers and never has, apparently never does anything and never has, and for whom there is absolutely no evidence.

      Bill Deacon is a stupid, annoying moron. Go away, Bill. Your Catlicker religion with all its wretchedly corrupt hierarchy is dying fast and so are you.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • sam stone

      wow....rewarded in the afterlife....that must be a great comfort to them while they are suffering here

      June 17, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • Bill

      No need to mock me Sam. I was just saying what I believe in.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • sam stone

      "The better question is why would we have faith in a creator who performs at the will and whim of the creation."

      The better question is why would we have faith in a creator who punishes people for doing what they would do before they were born

      June 17, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      Bill Deacon, So you feel that a god who has never shown itself should just be obeyed? Life at the whim of your god is exactly the same as life without a god but exposed to the randomness and uncertainty inherent in life. Prayer is clearly futile – it's never been proven to have any impact on the target of the prayer. So what's the point of the god if it can't live up to its billing?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • sam stone

      bill: you dismiss current suffering for the possibility of a reward in an afterlife.

      don't worry about that cancer, you will find a reward after you die

      June 17, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • sam stone

      "Prayer is clearly futile"

      It is also blaphemous, no? Doesn't prayer imply that the person doing the prayer knows better than god?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      demon seems to want a god who's more like a personal valet and gets a little, shall we say testy, if someone like me points that out.

      Why not spend your time stopping war demon? You can start with the hatred in your own heart. God will help, if you pray.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      "The better question is why would we have faith in a creator who performs at the will and whim of the creation."

      An even better question is why would we have faith in a creator who apparently performs not at all.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • David

      "the children suffering will be rewarded in the afterlife."

      Queen – "Are those children I hear you torturing in the Dungeon dear?"
      King – "Yes Honey, but it's okay, I will give them all small plots of land as a reward later, i'm sure they will be very appreciative..."

      June 17, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • sam stone

      "demon seems to want a god who's more like a personal valet"

      like those who pray?

      June 17, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Santa, I think the error you make is when you presume the target of prayer is something external. When I pray about my neighbor who is a jerk, I'm not asking God to change him. I'm asking God to change me. When I pray for starving people, I'm not expecting mana to rain down from heaven, I'm expecting a chance to buy a homeless person lunch. When you sit around cursing God because he's not solving everything you've decided is a problem, you're assuming you can tell the difference between suffering and redemption.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      ME II perhaps the reason it appears to you that God doesn't perform at all is because continue to expect him to do the things he has left for you to do.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Bill
      Do you really believe the bible?...so if you think your wife is being unfaithful, you can simply use the test ini the bible and your can know for sure.
      Numbers 5:17, 24-28

      The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put in into the water. … And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. … If she has acted unfaithfully against her husband, … her body shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.

      Seriously?

      June 17, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      "perhaps the reason it appears to you that God doesn't perform at all is because continue to expect him to do the things he has left for you to do."

      First, it's not that He doesn't appear to perform at all, but that He doesn't appear to have performed ever.
      Second, are you saying that in order for Him to perform, I must not expect Him to perform? But wouldn't that mean that my lack of expectation is actually an expectation to get Him to perform?
      Or, are you simply saying that if I don't expect anything, He will meet that expectation?

      June 17, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • lol??

      R Cranius, you are a complete idiot. You couldn't find a tabernacle if it fell out of the sky and landed on your skull.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Bill

      Like I said, Sam, I really don’t know why God would allow that.

      Lol,
      That doesn’t present us in a positive light. I personally think you should cut out the insults.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Bill Deacon, Are you saying your omniscient god does not know of the suffering and that your omnipotent god cannot prevent it? Do you see how illogical it is for a god to have "created" the universe then waited billions of years for life to evolve and still be involved 24×7 in the lives of billions of people without any observable difference than cannot be attributed to pure chance?

      June 17, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill
      "If God does exist then only He knows the answer."

      If you want mystery in life, that's your business, I suppose, but personally I'd want pretty good answers for why 1000s of children should die a horrible death, especially if it could be easily prevented (for a god, anyway.).

      June 17, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Notice that its the believers who are justifying torture as acceptable and good. Unsettling.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Beyond, or rather antecedent to, any eternal reward, the value of human suffering cannot be discounted. As Viktor Frankl tells us "The fruit yielded by the holocaust is the concentration camp. In the concentration camp we see man as capable of incinerating his brother in an oven, yet at the same time being able to walk into that oven with his dignity intact and prayer on his lips."

      8. In itself human suffering constiitutes as it were a specific "world" which exists together with man, which appears in him and passes, and sometimes does not pass, but which consolidates itself and becomes deeply rooted in him. This world of suffering, divided into many, very many subjects, exists as it were "in dispersion". Every individual, through personal suffering, constiitutes not only a small part of that a world", but at the same time" that world" is present in him as a finite and unrepeatable entiity. Parallel with this, however, is the interhuman and social dimension. The world of suffering possesses as it were its own solidarity. People who suffer become similar to one another through the analogy of their situation, the trial of their destiny, or through their need for understanding and care, and perhaps above all through the persistent question of the meaning of suffering. Thus, although the world of suffering exists "in dispersion", at the same time it contains within itself a. singular challenge to communion and solidarity.

      Considering the world of suffering in its personal and at the same time collective meaning, one cannot fail to notice the fact that this world, at some periods of time and in some eras of human existence, as it were becomes particularly concentrated. This happens, for example, in cases of natural disasters, epidemica, catastrophes, upheavals and various social scourges: one thinks, for example, of a bad harvest and connected with it – or with various other causes – the scourge of famine.

      One thinks, finally, of war. I speak of this in a particular way. I speak of the last two World Wars, the second of which brought with it a much greater harvest of death and a much heavier burden of human sufferings. The second half of our century, in its turn, brings with it—as though in proportion to the mistakes and transgressions of our contemporary civilization—such a horrible threat of nuclear war that we cannot think of this period except in terms of an incomparable accuumulation of sufferings, even to the possible self-destruction of humanity. In this way, that world of suffering which in brief has its subject in each human being, seems in our age to be transformed—perhaps more than at any other moment—into a special "world": the world which as never before has been transformed by progress through man's work and, at the same time, is as never before in danger because of man's mistakes and offences.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • lol??

      Bill, debating the forked tongue split brained dragonites is endless. They just keep dividing! Ain't science wunnerful with its cell division?? Quite finite.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Cpt. notice the unbelievers who think suffering can be universally eliminated and are willing to deny the fruit of it. I thought you believed in evolution?

      June 17, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I don't notice that Bill, it seems you are misreading or misunderstanding. It's a big mistake Bill.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Bill
      Lol is a delusional troll that only knows how to throw insults. Ignore it like everyone else does.
      Lol sees demons and devils everywhere and knows nothing of bearing false witness etc.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      IF god exists, then he allows billions and billions of children to suffer. Because that's a d!ck move, the Christians have to come up with a way to rationalize that suffering as "good." Atheists are under no such compulsion.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,

      1) So are you saying that suffering is justified for the camaraderie and solidarity that it brings?

      "Cpt. notice the unbelievers who think suffering can be universally eliminated and are willing to deny the fruit of it. "

      I didn't know that unbeliever's thought that suffering could be "eliminated". Suffering is part of living in a natural world and on a physical level has many uses, i.e. warning, learning, etc.
      However, while suffering makes sense in a natural world, it makes less sense, or is more difficult to justify if "created" by an all-powerful, all-loving, god.
      That is the question at hand.

      June 17, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • lol??

      R Cranius, that "etc" sure covers a lot and is quite the wide SNARE!!. Are you a copykitty??

      "Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth."

      June 17, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Au contraire ME II, Suffering only makes sense in a world created by God. To paraphrase the Buddha, you desire to feel satisfied, to not suffer. You develop a feeling, an attachment, to something which gives you pleasure and reduces your suffering. You desire this thing, which is temporary and thus must die or rot. When you lose the object of your desire, your satisfaction turns to suffering. Thus you suffer because you desire.

      You are correct, loss is part of the natural world. We lose a pet, a parent, a job, a loved one. We suffer, because, life changes. But it is the changing that renews life. The death of the old sows the seeds of the new. Call it evolution. Suffering is as essential as water. Water drowns and erodes, but it also quenches and slackens thirst.

      The end of suffering is not practical nor, I would think desirable, from God's perspective. What is possibly valuable and worthy is our response to the suffering around us. If God were to end suffering, how would you learn about compassion, charity, forgiveness, healing, sacrifice, grief, consolation. I thank God for the gift of suffering and the ability to choose to respond to the suffering of those around me.

      I find it so interesting that yours and others level of understanding on this stuff is so rudimentary. Not to try and be too rude but only a fool would petiition God to eliminate suffering. Now go feed someone.

      June 17, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Bill Deacon.
      " Suffering only makes sense in a world created by god".

      Seriously...where do you come up with this stuff. There is suffering, yet that alone does not indicate any gods. Suffering makes sense in terms of evolution and wherever there is life. Feeling pain is a survival tool.

      I would love to hear the "logic" behind that statement Bill because it is pure BS.

      June 17, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      2 Corinthians 1
      3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
      4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
      5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ

      June 17, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Well D ick it goes like this: Someone above says "If there is a God why doesn't he eliminate suffering? Since he doesn't, it proves there is no God, or at most he's a jerk."

      You and I have just agreed that suffering is a good thing and essential to the survival of the species.

      So why would you expect God to prove himself by removing a process that is for our own benefit and then castigate or deny him because he doesn't? I mean seriously, do atheists even know what they are asking for?

      June 17, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      RB
      Father of mercies and god of comfort...this too is your "loving"god
      Meek and mild Jesus, the harbinger of love, mercy, and turning the other cheek.

      Matthew 10:34-35
      "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household."

      Matthew 13:49-50
      "So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth."

      Matthew 23:33
      "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?"

      June 17, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • David

      If I had not already read the bible several times and had found it wanting, but had to judge it based on it's supporters comments on these boards, there is no way I would associate myself with "believers" like lol??, bill, faith, Austin, LionlyLamb et al.

      I will admit that some atheists push the bounderies of propriety as well, but none do it with such disgusting egotism as those regular posters.

      June 17, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      "I find it so interesting that yours and others level of understanding on this stuff is so rudimentary. Not to try and be too rude but only a fool would petiition God to eliminate suffering. Now go feed someone."

      Ah, the arrogance of piety.

      "If God were to end suffering, how would you learn about compassion, charity, forgiveness, healing, sacrifice, grief, consolation."

      Does not God supposedly give everyone a conscience with which to tell right from wrong? Isn't an absolute morality supposedly inherent in all human beings?

      Why cannot God give us compassion, forgiveness, etc. in the same way?

      "Suffering only makes sense in a world created by God."

      As I already said, phyiscal suffering makes perfect sense in the natural world. Are you saying that pain does not makes sense in the natural world? I doubt animals would survive at all without pain receptors.

      "When you lose the object of your desire, your satisfaction turns to suffering. Thus you suffer because you desire."

      So, we should just tell the 1000s of children starving each day to stop desiring food?

      June 17, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Bill D
      You are trying to make the case that suffering ONLY makes sense in a world with god...it makes sense in a world with or without any gods.
      Honestly, do the religious really understand one bit of logic?

      June 17, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      B. Deacon, why do you minimize suffering if it's such a grand idea your god came up with? Why not be proud of all the suffering if it's such a god thing? Small children who have only known a life of hellish pain and disease are not suffering because of their "attachments," they are suffering because of the condition they were born into.

      God is an azzhole for allowing little children to suffer for their entire lives for a reason that he hides from them and us. You can't turn sh!t into gold with a can of spraypaint, bub.

      June 17, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      "You and I have just agreed that suffering is a good thing and essential to the survival of the species."

      Only in the world as it exists.

      "So why would you expect God to prove himself by removing a process that is for our own benefit and then castigate or deny him because he doesn't? I mean seriously, do atheists even know what they are asking for?""

      1) Atheist are not asking to have suffering removed, because they don't believe in God. Who would they be asking?
      2) The question is why would the supposed God create a world/universe where suffering is necessary at all?

      June 17, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I hate super long threads

      June 17, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • David

      "You and I have just agreed that suffering is a good thing and essential to the survival of the species."

      Suffering is never a good thing. Suffering isn't the quick and sharp pain of discipline and correction but the long drawn out torturous pain of a sadistic being who revels in causing the suffering. There is no lesson to be learned from suffering other than to understand that the person making you suffer is the beneficiary of this torture, not the tortured. It is they who smile at others pain, smirk at their screams and laugh at their panic.

      June 17, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Science

      And on every thread on the belief blog Billy eats grow along with his buddies no matter how short the chains are !

      June 17, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      ME II the answer is obvious as to why would a benevolent God create a universe that contains suffering. The answer is that despite the recoil from it we experience that it is a beneficial mechanism. You cannot deny that many people use the existence of suffering to malign or discount God, when the truth is that the world could not exist without it.

      David, Your contention that suffering is not a good thing contradiicts survivors of suffering who tell us the profound depths of understanding and expanded compassion they have acquired from their experiences.

      June 17, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Why does God allow bad things to happen? Why doesn’t God prevent bad things from happening? I don’t think anyone can answer those questions generally speaking, it would just be speculation on anyone’s part that wasn’t directly involved. Even if you are directly involved, I don’t think God will reveal the answer to you, unless you are a believer or he uses the situation to convert you. Just from mine own experiences, God has revealed the reasons for things that caused me great pain and loss in some cases and in others nothing was revealed.

      Strictly to the nonbelievers here, sometimes it is put, why would a loving God allow….? The love that God has for you as a nonbeliever is literally Jesus. He has made the way. That is his love for you. He patiently waits. He works in your life to convict you of your sin. He loved you first and is waiting for your response. When and if you are converted then there is more, much, much more. Could God be trying to get your attention?

      June 17, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • lol??

      David sayz,
      "...................I will admit that some atheists push the bounderies of propriety as well, but none do it with such disgusting egotism as those regular posters."

      Well dude, looks like you bought into the false theory of "Ego" from the Frankfurt School. Matriot!

      June 17, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Bill Deacon, An omnipotent creator would have had a myriad of choices; do you ever wonder why it chose to allow the majority of humankind to suffer with poverty, famine, disease, war, etc.? I know you've partly answered that but not in the context of the believer's statements that prayer works, god is perfect, it deserves praise, etc.

      June 17, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      "The answer is obvious ....that it is a beneficial mechanism. ...the truth is that the world could not exist without it."

      Perhaps this world could not exist without it, but it is not required for a world.

      It is circular reasoning to say that suffering is necessary for this world which was created in such a way that suffering is necessary.

      June 17, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Santa, I haven't pondered that question in about 40 years. The ultimate answer, as Job teaches us is that God is God and we are not. He is a bit above our pay grade and not subject to our redirects. I know that bristles but there it is. Philosophers from all time have wrestled with the question of suffering.

      If we look back over this thread I think we see two trains of thought. The first is that suffering is unjust and unneeded and should be done away with, either by God or the eradication of God so that humans can get on with the work of setting the world right. The only problem is that this thought runs smack into the second thought which is more demonstrable: That suffering is necessary and produces benefits both to individuals and to the larger group. In which case, it should be rightly seen as a gift, either by design or happenstance.

      Of course ME II then posits that some theoretical world could exist that would not expose us to suffering but he cannot point to such a world that actually exists. I maintain that suffering is required and intrinsic to reality and therefore something to be embraced. But, what can you do? I'm Catholic.

      June 17, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      "Of course ME II then posits that some theoretical world could exist that would not expose us to suffering but he cannot point to such a world that actually exists."

      I only point to "some theoretical" world because you pose as theoretical god which supposedly created it.
      Are you claiming that your God created this world only because it was necessary and that the configuration of it was necessary?
      If God had no choice, then why praise Him? He only did what He must.

      June 17, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,

      p.s. Your book posits a theoretical world without suffering, Eden. So, according to your faith, if I'm not mistaken, it's not theoretical at all, but actually existed.

      June 17, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • David

      @Bill – Your contention that suffering is not a good thing contradiicts survivors of suffering who tell us the profound depths of understanding and expanded compassion they have acquired from their experiences."

      I do not need to be r a p e d to understand that I do not want to be r a p e d. I do not need to be tortured to know that I do not want to be tortured. To the survivors of suffering I say both thank you and i'm sorry. Thank you for enduring that which you should never have had to endure and i'm sorry for not being able to prevent it.

      The reason that my comments do not contradict those examples of expanded compassion are two fold. First, for every example of expanded compassion you present I can give you 10 people who crumpled under the pressure and either took their lives or became sadists themselves to deal with the trauma, repeating the cycle of abuse. Second, there are many examples of other people who have achieved "expanded compassion" by meditation and education that can be just as deep and profound so the neccesity of suffering is false. It may be the quick route to enlightenment for a select few who make it through but to claim it's needed in the world is a total lie.

      June 17, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      You might as well ask "Why did God create a world in which 2 plus 2 equals 4? Didn't he have a choice to make 2+2=5? The point is that the world exists in the conditions it does because that is what works and it is all that has been shown to work, to this point. We can debate over whether or not God, himself is the prime mover of our existence but you cannot argue that the fact there is no alternate set of circuumstances which God could have created to suit your specification means that these current conditions are substandard.

      Secondly, I think you may be melding some popular images of heaven and Eden. No where does the Bible state that there was not suffering or loss in the garden. The garden was the condition under which man and God were companions.

      June 17, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      David, your examples of not needing to suffer in order to know I don't need to suffer are too small in scope. The person who has been assaulted does already know that they don't "need" to be assaulted. Yet once they have been, there can be no denying that their empathy is greater towards fellow survivors than it was before.

      You are, of course free to claim that suffering is not a requirement for existence. But, you are still unable to point to an existence that has no component of suffering in it. I think that makes a pretty good case for the requirement of suffering in reality.

      Are you telling me that the people you know who have attained enlightenment by other means have not experienced suffering? I'd like to meet them. Perhaps you just mean that they have experienced acceptable levels of suffering or have reconciled that into some form of acceptance.

      June 17, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • Jim

      "I maintain that suffering is required and intrinsic to reality and therefore something to be embraced. But, what can you do? I'm Catholic."

      Well that makes what some Priests do to young boys look like after school tutoring...

      June 17, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • JMEF

      Bill Deacon
      So how was Sunday mass? Did you get enough of a fix in delusional forgiveness to let you live with yourself for another week? Too bad.

      June 17, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      First, why didn't God make 2 + 2 = 5?

      Second, if you equating mathematics with suffering then, unless I misunderstand, you are also claiming that suffering is a logical necessity in any possible world/universe. Please, explain how you arrived at that conclusion.

      Third, perhaps I am confusing Eden with Heaven, but then isn't your point moot since apparently Heaven is a world/universe that does not require suffering. Would that not negate your position that suffering is a required property?

      June 17, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
    • David

      "Yet once they have been, there can be no denying that their empathy is greater towards fellow survivors than it was before"

      Yes, there is much denying. It's occasionally called PTSD.

      "Are you telling me that the people you know who have attained enlightenment by other means have not experienced suffering? I'd like to meet them. Perhaps you just mean that they have experienced acceptable levels of suffering or have reconciled that into some form of acceptance."

      If you want to define "suffering" as any negative emotion that a person might feel such as when they don't get into the college they wanted to or have to wait in a long line at the grocery store then no, I know of no one who has not "suffered". If you mean suffer as I do which is to have the freedom to be yourself and to meet the needs for survival restricted by the threat of or by actual violence and discrimination or to suffer mentally by being refused access to education and doctors who could help based on their ethnicity or financial background or class status but are denied aid. Do I think any of that suffering and discrimination is needed in the world? NO! And the only one's who do are those benefitting from sc rew ing the little guy and shearing the lined up depressed sheep who come and throw money on their plates.

      So yes, I do know enlightened persons who did not have to go through true suffering but were able to read about it so that they didn't have to go through it themselves but could learn those lessons. That is the whole concept of walking a mile in someone elses shoes. It doesn't mean you have to hide out in an attic while being hunted by Nazi's to appreciate Anne Frank. More than enough people have suffered and more than enough accounts of their suffering have been recorded to show anyone that we should never repeat these same mistakes. Never again should good hardworking people who love their country and their God allow themselves to be manipulated by patriotism and the bible to murder, steal from and torture their neighbors just because they believe someone slighted their Lord for us to understand those dangers. We do not need to experience Auschwitz to work hard at never repating that part of history again.

      Nowadays in America at least, suffering is the slogan used by salesman trying to sell you bull shlt. The real suffering that changes people for the better is never the focus of persons who truly suffered and became enlightened, but the peace they were able to find amidst the suffering.

      Here is a theological question for you Bill. In the garden of eden, did God intend for Adam and Eve to suffer? He seemed mighty disappointed when they ate of the fruit and brought suffering into the world, so why do you think it is so integral to us being good persons if we didn't have suffering?

      June 17, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • David

      http://www.wimp.com/noworries/

      So Bill, if suffering is required and this video shows a young man who has gleaned so much from being born without arms and legs... I guess you are just a few hundred bucks spent on a chainsaw away from achieveing true enlightenment...

      June 17, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • JMEF

      Bill Deacon
      When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Now Billy Is a runaway, run, run, run, runaway. Happens every day, Bill just slithers away. The coward can only survive with the crutch of the RCC, poor Bill.

      June 17, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
  4. Agnostickids

    Church: I'd join, but I'm allergic to nuts.

    June 17, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Science

      Agnostickids

      And are the nuts coming out on this thread today ?

      June 17, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • science

      Now the nuts a playing pocket pool ...............who the hell knows ?

      June 17, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
  5. Agnostickids

    "God works in mysterious ways."

    If your doctor worked in "mysterious ways," would you trust him?

    June 17, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Ken

      Ponzi schemers work in "mysterious ways", but they still attract greedy investors willing to overlook this. If you're a believer in God ask yourself what you're greedy for: life after death, prayers answered, being part of the "in" crowd, ... ?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • David

      @Ken – why do they have to limit themselves to being greedy over one thing? I find the religious to be greedy over just about everything since they feel like they are some holy VIP that should have unlimited access to whatever they want. Want your Football team to win? Pray for it! Want your neighbor to stop being such a jerk? pray about it! Want to shirk the blame for important decisions so later you can blame everyone else but yourself if it doesn't go exactly as you had wanted? Pray for it!

      June 17, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • lol??

      You just want to elevate trust in the PUblic Servants that work for the Diverse Beast..

      June 17, 2013 at 11:33 am |
  6. Knights Who Say...

    Part I: The Miracle of Birth
    Obstetrician 1: Get the EEG, the BP monitor, and the AVV.
    Obstetrician 2: And get the machine that goes 'ping!'.
    Obstetrician 1: And get the most expensive machine – in case the Administrator comes.

    --------------------------–

    Patient: What do I do?
    Obstetrician: Nothing, dear, you're not qualified.

    --------------------------–

    Hospital Administrator: Ah, I see you have the machine that goes 'ping!'. This is my favorite. You see, we lease this back from the company we sold it to – that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
    [The doctors and onlookers applaud.]
    Hospital Administrator: Thank you, thank you. We try to do our best. Well, do carry on.

    --------------------------–

    June 17, 2013 at 11:02 am |
  7. Agnostickids

    Oh, you need religion to guide you morally? You couldn't figure out that murder is wrong by yourself? Huh?

    June 17, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • lol??

      Wrong question, dragonite.. It'a about the power to not murder. You can only rationalize and SEAR your own CONscience when it comes to your murders.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Science

      And lol?? you are the fruitiest of them ALL.............no fvcking horn-y red beast needed.

      You know geology and fvcking chondrites too !

      New 'Embryonic' Subduction Zone Found

      June 17, 2013 — A new subduction zone forming off the coast of Portugal heralds the beginning of a cycle that will see the Atlantic Ocean close as continental Europe moves closer to America.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130617104614.htm

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/?replytocom=2407952#respond

      June 17, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • lol??

      Science, just get the Prozac out of the fishes environment. It's makin' em nutzo. You are destroyin' the earth.

      "Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

      June 17, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Science

      lol?? you are a fruitcake................dot did not like the scouts deal aye ?

      comments going to disappear here too ?

      June 17, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • Science

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/05/opinion-a-plea-from-an-exhausted-muslim-woman/#comments

      June 17, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • science

      Where is chadie /ICR and his bone lol??............?

      June 17, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Science

      The brainless one show up to funny ...................Captain dot.

      June 17, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Science

      Oops............ shows

      June 17, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Science

      They are coming out of the wood work NOW.................RB showed up too !

      Is topher next or L4H ?

      June 17, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
  8. Agnostickids

    Christianity:

    The belief that a cosmic, Jewish Zombie,

    who was his own father,

    ...can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepatically tell him you accept him as your master,

    ...so he can remove an evil force from your soul

    ...that is present in humanity because a woman created from one rib

    ...was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

    yeah, makes perfect sense.....

    June 17, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Bill

      Why do you have to insult us?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • sam stone

      we do not have to insult christians

      chrisitans do not have to try to legislate their beliefs

      June 17, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • sam stone

      why do christians have to blather empty proxy threats?

      why do christians quote bible verses to those who do not accept the validity of the bible?

      why can christians not admit that what they have is faith, not fact?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Bill
      He doesn't HAVE to insult you, but it is fun sometimes....besides, I see no insult, just a different view of the character Jesus.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:29 am |
  9. faith

    alert me when u gots somethin dm

    yawn

    nitie nite

    June 17, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • The real Tom

      Drunk again, dear? AA might be helpful.

      Who is dm?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • sam stone

      Don't go to AA, filth, eat your 9mm

      June 17, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • Bill

      Do you mean that Sam Stone?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:36 am |
    • sam stone

      bill: with filth, yes

      June 17, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Faith recently had a CAT scan done....they found 67 of them in her house.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • JR

      Are you drunk again, faith?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • sam stone

      richard: and then austin dreamed about whacking all of them

      June 17, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Bill

      You want him to do that b/c you disagree with him?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      faithy: Off your meds again? Mixing them with Vodka perhaps?
      Are you and Austin a team now? He seems very fond of you...perhaps you can exchange info and live in oblivion together...you're both bat shit crazy, perfect match.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • sam stone

      no, bill. i say that because filth is nothing but a troll, and that is how trolls are dealt with\

      if someone comes on here for an honest discussion, i got no problem with that

      if someone comes on to troll, or issue empty proxy threats, i suggest they force their meeting with jeebus

      June 17, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • sam stone

      bill: take a gander at filth's posts. there is no attempt at discussion of any kind

      she is a diseased gash

      June 17, 2013 at 11:16 am |
  10. faith

    horus proves dm has problems. and she based her scholarly works on horus mcboris! lol

    thambo, u b killin me

    lol

    maggie's drawers girls

    haha

    June 17, 2013 at 10:23 am |
    • sam stone

      one click, faith, you could be on your knees pleasing the savior....if you can pry jerry fartwell off of him

      June 17, 2013 at 10:24 am |
  11. faith

    horus was amusing

    June 17, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • The real Tom

      You met him?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Ken

      She might, after she dies, or is that Anubis? I keep getting those two mixed up.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:28 am |
  12. faith

    boring

    look at em go nuts

    haha

    sorry girls

    try something new

    it ain't workin for ya

    you got zero

    ZERO

    June 17, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • The real Tom

      What "girls" are you addressing, faith?

      What are you so pissed off about?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • midwest rail

      Apparently, THIS is Austin's definition of "humor". Sad.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • sam stone

      austin is a delusional twit

      June 17, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • The real Tom

      So is faith.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • Ken

      Honestly guys, does Austin sound like a carefree person with a healthy sense of humour to you? I don't know about you guys, but all his talk about dreaming of dead cats and finding them just screams of "serial-killer-in-the-making" to me. Killing animals is a usual first step, right?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:32 am |
    • sam stone

      filth is a troll

      austin is delusional

      both are amusing in their own ways

      is is chard, and gopher

      June 17, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • sam stone

      austin seems like a tortured person.

      good

      delusional fvck

      June 17, 2013 at 10:39 am |
  13. faith

    sorry girls. u got nothin. nothin. never have had and never will have

    lol

    can u spell n u t h i n ?

    June 17, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • The real Tom

      I CAN, but why would I spell something that isn't a word?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • rosanna

      No

      June 17, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • Sal

      "can u spell n u t h i n ?"
      I can. Apparently YOU can't.

      Can you spell n o t h i n g?

      There. Fixed it for you.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:40 am |
  14. faith

    zero. zilch. nada.

    blah blah blah

    June 17, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • The real Tom

      Analysis of the inside of your skull?

      June 17, 2013 at 10:17 am |
  15. Ken

    I had a comic growing up where Superman actually made an exact copy of the Earth, in one day. Back in the 70s they realized that Superman was getting too powerful to be interesting anymore. What possible villain could ever hope to challenge him, after all? In this, he is a lot like Jesus/God.

    In any normal universe, there is no way that Satan could ever hope to defeat Jesus/God because he's just a weakling, like Lex Luthor, but they write ridiculous stories where Satan/Luthor appears to gain the upper hand only to (surprise!, surprise!) be foiled in the end. The Book of Revelation is exactly like a comic book from the 40s to the 60s, when only little kids really read these stories, and they were written for this age group.

    Modern comic books are called "graphic novels" and they are aimed for a more mature audience, one that knows that villains and heros are not one-dimentional childish characters that can only ever be "good guys", or "bad guys". In modern comics the heros don't always win and they don't always act more nobly than their opponents. It's a much more mature way of looking at the world.

    June 17, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • Akira

      Here are some classic comics about Superman from Cracked.com:

      http://www.cracked.com/article_20069_5-classic-superman-comics-that-prove-he-used-to-be-dick.html

      They also have other Superman comics that are...less than flattering; I don't think these comparisons to Jesus would fly...

      June 17, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • ME II

      @Akira,
      That was obviously in the OT (old ti.tle), which is not applicable to NT (new ti.tle, "Adventures of Superman") aficionados.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • Ken

      Akira
      There are non-canonical gospels that show Jesus in a less than flattering way too, so that's another thing they share.

      June 17, 2013 at 11:12 am |
  16. rosanna

    Check this website. It says that the story of Superman "parallels the story of MOSES being sent down the Nile in a basket for his own protection as his world was falling apart from the slavery and the infanticide around him."

    http://www.aish.com/ci/a/Superman–the-Jewish-Mission.html

    June 17, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • Ken

      And how many parallels are there between the stories of Moses and Jesus?

      1. Moses a Jew was born when Egyptians (gentiles) ruled the people of Israel EX.1:8-10

      Jesus a Jew was born when Romans (gentiles) ruled the people of Israel Lk. 2:1-5

      2. Pharaoh,an evil ruler, decreed that all male Hebrew babies should be killed by
      casting them into the river Ex1:23

      Herod,an evil ruler, decreed that all male Hebrew babies should be put to death
      Mt. 2:16

      3. Moses was hidden in Egypt 3 months to keep him alive Ex 2:2

      Jesus was also hidden in Egypt to keep him alive Mt. 2:13

      4. Moses' mother put him in the river in a BASKET Ex.2:3

      Jesus' mother put him in a MANGER (feeding trough) Lk. 2:7

      5. Moses means drawn out of water Ex2:10. Drawing out of water is a picture of
      salvation Is.12:3. Moses was Israel's way of salvation

      Jesus' name in Hebrew is Yeshua which means salvation

      6. The favor of God was upon Moses,even as an infant. Pharaoh's daughter took him
      out of the river and he became a prince of Egypt. Ex 2:5

      The favor of God was upon Jesus. Wise men worshipped Him and presented gifts to
      to Him. Matt 2:11

      7. Moses was brought up by a man who was not his natural father. Ex 2:9-10

      Jesus was brought up by a man who was his stepfather, Joseph Lk. 2:33.

      8. Moses, when grown, saw the burdens of his brethern and had compassion on them
      Ex.2:11

      Jesus saw His people as sheep without a shepherd and had compassion on them
      Mk. 6:34

      9. Moses at a well, was kind to the daughters of the priest of Midian and watered
      their their flock (not the usual custom) Ex.2:17

      Jesus at a well, was kind to a Samaritan woman and offered her water (not the
      usual custom. John 4:9-11

      10.Moses was in exile in a foreign land until the king of Egypt died. Ex 2:23

      Jesus was in exile in a foreign land until King Herod died Mt. 2:19-20.

      And so on ...

      June 17, 2013 at 10:21 am |
  17. Rynomite

    It's not surprising that Christians see parallels between Superman and Jebus as both are myths.

    June 17, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • rosanna

      The effect of the belief in Jesus isn't a myth, though. People change their mindsets after believing in Jesus' personality. Humans need heroes to look up to. There is not one person who does not need someone to emulate. It would be a peaceful world if we emulate peaceful personalities.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:26 am |
    • Ken

      rosanna
      Don't you think that people use to believe in and even emulate the other gods and heros found in myth? They were popular once too, you know?

      June 17, 2013 at 11:15 am |
  18. Vic

    That rings a bell:

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-players-abc-news/why-supreme-court-may-not-gay-marriage-113531021.html?vp=1

    June 17, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • The real Tom

      No, it doesn't.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:13 am |
  19. palintwit

    Well, Sarah Palin is back on Fox. Proving once again she is the turd that won't flush.

    June 17, 2013 at 9:58 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Only because people like you keep her name in the forefront....everyone else seems to have forgotten her.

      June 17, 2013 at 10:02 am |
  20. William Demuth

    I was unsure about seeing this

    Now I have decided to steal it instead.

    Bit Torrent here I come

    June 17, 2013 at 9:51 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.