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June 14th, 2013
04:05 PM ET

Superman: Flying to a church near you

By Eric Marrapodi, Co-Editor CNN Belief Blog

Baltimore, Maryland (CNN) - As the new Superman movie takes flight this weekend, filmmakers are hoping the Man of Steel lands not only in theaters, but also in pulpits.

Warner Bros. Studios is aggressively marketing "Man of Steel" to Christian pastors, inviting them to early screenings, creating Father’s Day discussion guides and producing special film trailers that focus on the faith-friendly angles of the movie.

The movie studio even asked a theologian to provide sermon notes for pastors who want to preach about Superman on Sunday. Titled “Jesus: The Original Superhero,” the notes run nine pages.

“How might the story of Superman awaken our passion for the greatest hero who ever lived and died and rose again?” the sermon notes ask.

(Disclaimer: CNN, like Warner Bros., is owned by Time Warner.)

Similar campaigns to corral the country's large number of Christians into the movie theater have been used for "Les Miserables," "Soul Surfer" and "The Blind Side," all of which had at least some faith angle.

Baltimore pastor Quentin Scott is among dozens of ministers who received an e-mail invitation from Grace Hill Media, a Hollywood-based Christian marketing firm, to an early screening of “Man of Steel.”

“There was an actual push to say `We’re putting out something that speaks to your group,' ” said Scott, one of the pastors of Shiloh Christian Community Church in Baltimore.

At first, Scott said, he didn’t buy the religious pitch. Then he decided to attend a free midweek screening in Baltimore.

“When I sat and listened to the movie I actually saw it was the story of Christ, and the love of God was weaved into the story," said the pastor.

"It was something I was very excited about that with the consultation of our senior pastor, we could use in our congregation.”

CNN Entertainment: 'Man of Steel' director Zack Snyder on Superman's Christ-like parallels

Grace Hill’s sermon notes are specially designed for churches like Shiloh that integrate multimedia into their services.

“Let’s take a look at the trailer for `Man of Steel,’” the notes suggest after briefly introducing the movie’s history and themes.

The man behind the notes, Pepperdine University professor Craig Detweiler, has prepared similar material for films like 2009’s "The Blind Side" and "The Book of Eli" from 2010.

The spiritual themes in “Man of Steel” are abundant, Detweiler said, and his notes enable Christians to thoughtfully engage with pop culture instead of shunning it.

“All too often, religious communities have been defined by what they're against. With a movie like `Man of Steel,’ this is a chance to celebrate a movie that affirms faith, sacrifice and service,” Detweiler said.

It will be hard for even casual Christians to miss the messianic metaphors in "Man of Steel.”

The movie focuses on the origins of Superman, who was sent from the planet Krypton as an infant to save his species.

He is raised by surrogate parents who help him grapple with his special powers, even though they don’t fully understand the source of his extraordinary abilities.

When he turns 33, Superman must willingly sacrifice himself to save the human race.

Sound familiar?

If that’s not enough, as a boy Clark Kent is shown wrestling with his superpowers, and asks his earthly dad, Jonathan Kent, “Did God do this to me?”

“Somewhere out there you have another father and he sent you here for a reason,” says Jonathan Kent.

Even the visuals hammer home the messianic motifs.

During a fight with his archenemy, General Zod, Superman plunges down to Earth, his arms outstretched as if he were being crucified. Of course, he rises again.

Detweiler writes in the sermon notes, “What Jesus and Superman both give us, through their `hero’ actions but also their `human’ actions – is hope.”

“I think it’s a very good thing that Hollywood is paying attention to the Christian marketplace,” said Ted Baehr, who runs Movieguide, a website that reviews family friendly films from a Christian perspective.

“Where it gets sticky is when they try to manipulate the market and when Christians try to manipulate Hollywood. But here I think we have the right balance.”

But other Christians are heaving a supersized sigh at the movie marketing.

"Any pastor who thinks using `Man of Steel Ministry Resources' is a good Sunday morning strategy must have no concept of how high the stakes are, or very little confidence in the power of God’s word and God’s spirit," writes P.J. Wenzel, a deacon and Sunday School teacher at Dublin Baptist Church in Ohio.

"As they entertain their congregants with material pumped out from Hollywood’s sewers, lives are kept in bondage, and people’s souls are neglected," according to Wenzel, who said he was e-mailed information about the movie.

Scott, the Baltimore pastor, said he knows that Warner Bros. Studios has a financial incentive in pushing the film to pastors.

But he said that’s fine with him. “They’re using us but in fact we’re using them,” he said.

His church won't show clips from the movie this weekend because it had already planned out its service. But he plans to use them later, during meetings with the church’s men’s group.

“If you give me another opportunity to talk to someone about Jesus Christ, and I can do that because of your movie, that’s a win for me, because it is about spreading the Gospel.”

CNN's Erin McPike contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Celebrity • Christianity • Church • Entertainment • Media • Movies

soundoff (6,545 Responses)
  1. faith

    nussing

    June 18, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • Maksim

      What is this word nussing? I have never seen this word before.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      faithy: Do the nurses know you're using the computer again?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
  2. Cpt. Obvious

    If evolution is so wrong and so easy to disprove, why aren't Christians becoming biologists and scientists by thousands every year to prove the theory incorrect and show us nonbelievers how science is really done?

    June 18, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • sam stone

      They are afraid.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • Roger that

      They can't handle the truth.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • Mr. Obvious

      I suppose the could. Why don't they start with studying you're brain? Never mind you don't have one.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • Elmer

      Vewy vewy afwaid.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • Ken

      Why waist our time on a lie? Think deeply into that.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • Vic

      Christians founded all Branches of Science

      Here is an example how science is done:

      http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/15/science-seat-you-could-have-been-a-furry-beast/comment-page-2/#comment-136482

      June 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Dippy's assistant

      @Ken: waste

      June 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Really, Ken? So according to the anti-evolution folks, it's a lie, extremely dangerous, from the pit of hell, poisoning the minds of the youth and the entire world, and they don't think it's worth the time for a few dozen of their own to become evolutionary scientists and bring down the whole house of cards? That doesn't seem to make sense.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I didn't know science is a lie. I pray the car starts.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • Athiests in science & tech

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology

      check out the Nobel laureates in this list, Vic.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • ME II

      @Vic,
      I don't know if you are referencing the lightyears article or your own links, but referencing ICR is not very helpful as they seem to be committed to finding data that confirms their Biblical view regardless of where the evidence actually points, which is not science.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • Vic

      I am tending to the argument that there is no science educated Christian by the masses which is contrary to the truth! And yes, I am linking to my own previous comments in response to the subject matter and not the a r t i c l e s.

      Here is a link to a better one of my previous posts:

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/comment-page-95/#comment-2332481

      June 18, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Vic
      You have no links to a better one of your posts. They are all delusional and lies.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Ken: Dictionaries are your friend. Believing that the world was created via incest is just a sick and twisted way of looking at the world.

      Vic: As always you're wrong. Science and you imaginary friend are in no way compatible.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • ME II

      @Vic,
      "I am tending to the argument that there is no science educated Christian by the masses which is contrary to the truth!"

      Your statement is confusing, but if you are saying that there are scientists who are also Christian, then I don't think anyone is debating that point. One prime example is Kenneth Miller; his testimony at the Dover trial should be required reading for Christian, IMO.

      "And yes, I am linking to my own previous comments in response to the subject matter and not the a r t i c l e s.

      Here is a link to a better one of my previous posts:

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/comment-page-95/#comment-2332481

      Please note my responses to your post at said link.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Tokher

      @Mr. Obvious – "Why don't they start with studying you're brain?"

      Start with you are brain eh?

      Mr. Obvious "your" so stupid.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • Mr. Obvious

      @ Tokher
      Wow! Am I going to be arrested for spelling a word wrong? That all ya got? Who the fvck are you to correct anyone? Climb back on YOUR Moms backside. Stupid fvck

      June 18, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      For Mr. Obvious:

      http://nexua.org/niji/butthurt-form/

      June 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      MO

      That would be "Mom's" not "Moms."

      June 18, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Cpt:

      Who was Jean Baptiste Lemarke?

      Who was Gregor Mendel?

      June 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Bill Deacon,

      The answers to your two questions are easily discovered. Please post again with something that is relevant to the thread. Thanks.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
  3. Cpt. Obvious

    One requirement I have of the people I love: They don't think I deserve to be tortured forever and ever with fire if I simply stop loving them or believing in their existence.

    June 18, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Look Up

      If that floats your boat, great for you.

      Denial can be habit forming.

      Rubbing the genny bottle may only make it shine brighter.

      Wishing on a falling star gives some happiness.

      Telling the truth is hard.

      Taking your medicine may help you. But could have side effects.

      Looking both ways before crossing the street will help you live a second longer.

      No man is promised tomorrow.

      Only one way to heaven, many paths to hell.

      JESUS is the way, truth and life.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Why don't YOU look up the word "GENIE," knuckle-dragger?

      June 18, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Look Up

      Tom 1st

      You ate confusing me with the other knuckle dragging evolutionary thinking monkeys uncles you associated with.

      Genie, one who dwells or stuck in a lamp or bottle being punished for not giving into the kings desire for all the kingdoms of the world to be his. Kind of what will happen to your daddy, Satan one day. For a thousand years, then cast into the everlasting fires of hell.

      Go ahead a rub that lamp, make it shine so bright. Your 3 wishes, Satan will grant you – for your eternal soul.

      Brahhhhhhhhhhh boo!

      June 18, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Tom
      They make genny beer in Rochester NY, and bottle it there too...maybe look up/lie4him is just having a few beers and making wishes with beer goggles on.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • fintastic

      @Look up........... another slack jawed religious nut job that doesn't believe in evolution?..... wow

      June 18, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
  4. faith

    nada

    June 18, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Is it not time for your meds yet?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:54 am |
  5. faith

    zilch

    June 18, 2013 at 11:50 am |
  6. Topher

    Right. Christ isn't interesting enough ... so we need to talk about comic books from the pulpit.

    June 18, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Daniel

      You have your comic book, we have ours. At least Superman would never think of going to the south pole to create the fortress of heIIitude where he takes all the bad guys and straps them into torture devices and put's them on a serum that keeps them alive so he can listen to their screams for eternity while he relaxes up in his snowy white fortress of solitude...

      June 18, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Apparently that's what a bunch of religious shamans were convinced to do.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Snopes.com

      Claim: Christ isn't interesting enough.

      – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

      :mrgreen:        true

      June 18, 2013 at 11:40 am |
    • Topher

      Daniel

      "You have your comic book, we have ours."

      Go read one. Watch the movie. I have no problem with that. I love comic books. All I'm saying is that if we truly believe Christ is who He claimed to be, we don't need to make it more "relevant" for people.

      "At least Superman would never think of going to the south pole to create the fortress of heIIitude ..."

      Of course not. As a human (Kryptonian) Superman's justice standard isn't as high as God's.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • Joey

      Sorry, but I don't find Christ to be the least bit interesting, other than the fact the people who believe in him seem to be fairly crazy.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • sam stone

      Right. Much more interesting (and intimidating) to talk about Iron Age comic books from the pulpit

      June 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      You're enti.tled to that conclusion. But have you read it? God Himself, walking among us, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, casting out demons and giving Himself up as a ransom for you. And do you understand what that means? That instead of giving you what you deserve He took your punishment so that you can be seen as "clean" on Judgment Day. And then three days later He defeated death and rose again so that you, too, can live forever. How cool is that? How can you not find that interesting?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • sam stone

      "As a human (Kryptonian) Superman's justice standard isn't as high as God's."

      They are higher

      June 18, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Joey

      Yes, I have read the vast majority of the bible and see no reason to believe that story of Jesus as the son of god is the least bit true. I think that to believe that you can live forever after you die if you just believe that Jesus died for your sins is completely absurd. Also, the entire concept of Christianity is immoral. Letting someone else take your punishment? How is that moral?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "Right. Much more interesting to talk about Iron Age comic books from the pulpit"

      Right. At least what went on during the "Iron Age" was true.

      "(and intimidating)"

      Sam, if you were intimidated during a church service, perhaps it was your conscience screaming at you that it's all true. That you've broken God's laws and your court date is set. And that you've got a big decision to make ... get what you deserve or let God pay the fine for you so you can go free.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • sam stone

      Joey: Topher is partially right. Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.

      Topher is one of toadies who believe they deserve hell, and can only avoid it by sucking up to the (right) god.

      Topher's god is a petty, vindictive pr1ck.

      Of course, Topher doesn't see it that way,

      Spiritual Stockholm Syndrome

      June 18, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      "Yes, I have read the vast majority of the bible and see no reason to believe that story of Jesus as the son of god is the least bit true"

      Why not? What do you find lacking?

      "I think that to believe that you can live forever after you die if you just believe that Jesus died for your sins is completely absurd"

      I agree because that's not how it works. Simply believing it's true won't help you. "You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!" James 2:19. I'm sure you understand that the demons won't be going to Heaven.

      "Also, the entire concept of Christianity is immoral. Letting someone else take your punishment? How is that moral?"

      How isn't it? Understand that God is just. Therefore, if you've broken His laws, He must hand out punishment for justice to be satisfied. But God is also loving. And because He loves you, He took the punishment you deserve. And if you take that deal, justice is still satisfied because punishment was handed out for the crimes committed. You then get to go free.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • sam stone

      "And that you've got a big decision to make ... get what you deserve or let God pay the fine for you so you can go free."

      I am a free man. I will take whatever punishment i deserve. What I will not do is to grovel like a punk and let someone else take my punishment. Apparently, you have no issue with begging

      Also, Topher, neither you nor the bronze age sheep mounters who wrote, translated or edited the bible speak for god. Get off your knees, b1tch

      June 18, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Understand that God is just"

      Understand that god, as described by toadies like Topher, is an immoral pri1ck

      June 18, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • Joey

      Topher, I guess your idea of just and my idea of just aren't the same.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • California Granny

      Topher,

      Actually, my conscience never screamed louder than when I, as a life-long believer, tried to teach my innocent little kids, who trusted me implicitly to be telling them the truth, all of those unfounded and nasty, superst'itious things that you espouse. I had to stop it.

      (all four of them grew up to be wonderful, caring, upstanding citizens, btw)

      June 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      "Topher, I guess your idea of just and my idea of just aren't the same."

      Very possible. What is yours?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • Topher

      California Granny

      "all four of them grew up to be wonderful, caring, upstanding citizens, btw"

      Glad to hear it.

      "Actually, my conscience never screamed louder than when I, as a life-long believer, tried to teach my innocent little kids, who trusted me implicitly to be telling them the truth, all of those unfounded and nasty, superst'itious things that you espouse. I had to stop it."

      So what exactly changed your mind?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Joey

      Topher, I just realized when I looked below that it appears you don't believe in Evolution. If that is the case then I am done talking to you.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      Luckily we aren't talking about evolution. Not only that, I haven't talked about it anywhere else today.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Joey

      You agreed with Robert below, which makes you a fool and I try not to talk to fools. So do you take a literal interpretation of the bible? If the answer is yes then I am done talking with you.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Luckily we aren't talking about evolution. Not only that, I haven't talked about it anywhere else today."

      More obfuscation from the master

      June 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      What I agreed with is that there's a difference between micro and macro evolution.

      And as to whether I take a literal interpretation of the Bible ... YES! I believe God wrote it and gave it to us. "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" Psalm 14:1. So it would seem in the eyes of God (the only opinion that matters) it is you who are the fool. Dude, you don't have to run away. We can have an adult conversation — like we've been having — even though we disagree. But if you feel you must go, have a good day.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Joey

      NO Topher, that is just it I can't have an adult conversation with someone who can deny 150 years worth of scientific evidence across pretty much every area of science that shows the Earth is about 4 billion years old, and that life on Earth evolved from single celled organisms. If you are willing to do that why should I believe anything you have to say about anything?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Topher,

      YES! I believe God wrote it
      .............
      Um Man wrote it...why are you being dishonest???????????????

      June 18, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Topher
      Lying again. God did not write a single word in the bible. Men did. We know that is fact. You are the only one I have ever heard that says god wrote it. Many say it was inspired by god, but if it is so, why is it so full of contradiction and flat out impossibilities. It is the corrupted works of men, born from men's imaginations in response to their own ignorance and based on stories from previous cultures. To say anythin different is a flat out lie.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • sam stone

      "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" Psalm 14:1.

      Wow, A QUOTE! f

      "So it would seem in the eyes of God (the only opinion that matters) it is you who are the fool."

      No, it would seem in the eyes of Iron Age sheep mounters (and those who believe their edited, translated hearsay) those who do not believe the same things they do are fools. Of course, who the fvck cares what these long dead people think?

      "Dude, you don't have to run away. We can have an adult conversation"

      Dude, you are a fine person to be saying that, with your godly pronouncements. A conversation implies that there is give and take. You are just here to preach

      June 18, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      You and I have been talking about the Gospel, not about what science says or doesn't say. That's a rabbit trail. If you don't want to keep talking with me, that's fine.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Joey, if you value honest discourse as well as your sanity, RUN !

      June 18, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • Ken

      "Topher, I just realized when I looked below that it appears you don't believe in Evolution. If that is the case then I am done talking to you"

      "To say anythin different is a flat out lie."

      I think this sums up atheism very clearly. "If you don't believe the way i believe, you are a liar so stop talking to me."

      Atheist exclusivity at it's finest!

      How do I get in? [sarcasm 😉 ]

      June 18, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Joey

      That was before I realized that you have a literal interpretation of the bible. This makes you a complete moron, and I am not going to waste my time talking to a complete moron.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Topher

      Richard Cranium

      "God did not write a single word in the bible. Men did. We know that is fact. You are the only one I have ever heard that says god wrote it"

      Perhaps I need to clarify myself. God inspired men to write the Bible ... which means they wrote what He wanted them to while still keeping their own personalities and styles. I like the analogy of who gets credit for writing the letter, the person or the pen the person used? While the pen marked down the words, it was the person who controlled it.

      "Many say it was inspired by god, but if it is so, why is it so full of contradiction and flat out impossibilities."

      What contradictions? There are errors, but not contradictions.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Joey

      I can see that someone would believe in god, but I can't for the life of me understand how anybody could read Genesis and take it literally.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • sam stone

      Ken: Christian argument "Believe what I believe or my god will torture you forever".....hmmmm.....sounds like a real loving parent. How can I sign up?

      June 18, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      "That was before I realized that you have a literal interpretation of the bible."

      What other way is there to interpret it? Either it's all true, or part of it isn't and thus you can't trust any of it.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • sam stone

      Topher: It is not intimidating to me, as I write it off as so much Iron Age mythology. It must be intimidating to you, as you have swallowed the whole "we all deserve hell" schtick hook, line and sinker

      June 18, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Topher

      Joey

      "I can see that someone would believe in god, but I can't for the life of me understand how anybody could read Genesis and take it literally."

      Believe me, before I was a Christian, I had a problem with a lot more than Genesis. But we take Genesis literally because it also is the Word of God — as we believe about the other 65 books. And God wouldn't lie about it ... that would go against His nature.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Topher,
      God inspired men to write the Bible
      -------
      You keep having to make this correction... this makes you dishonest. Your faith is in men and their writings...period

      June 18, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Either it's all true, or part of it isn't and thus you can't trust any of it."

      Door #2, please

      June 18, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Joey

      Genesis is just people 6000 years ago inventing a story to describe how they got there. T

      June 18, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Tokher

      "The fool has said in his heart, there is no Sauron." Silmar 19:31

      June 18, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • Topher

      "It must be intimidating to you, as you have swallowed the whole "we all deserve hell" schtick hook, line and sinker"

      Not sure I'd use the word "intimidating", but let's go with it for now. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight." Proverbs 9:10. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!" Psalms 111:10. "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

      And yes, I do buy it. It's just to punish those who break the law. And we have all sinned and thus all deserve Hell — me maybe more than most. So yes, I do deserve Hell. But luckily I serve a great God who made provision for me and paid my fine.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Pete

      I liked it better when Topher went away for awhile. Some of the things he says are so dumb that it makes my head hurt.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • sam stone

      "And yes, I do buy it."

      Of course you do, you're a slappy

      "It's just to punish those who break the law."

      It is not just to punish an innocent person for the acts of another, particularly when those acts are known ahead of time

      June 18, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Topher
      The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom\
      ------------
      Lets put this in real perspective.......fear of the writings of men is the beginning of wisdom. Theage old recipe for brainwashing.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Decisions made out of fear are foolish and ignorant

      June 18, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • sam stone

      If you feel you deserve hell, why don't you stand up like a man, refuse the "sacrifice" jesus made, and take your punishment?

      Is it more comfortable to cower?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "Of course you do, you're a slappy"

      Are you just making up insults now?

      "If you feel you deserve hell, why don't you stand up like a man, refuse the "sacrifice" jesus made, and take your punishment?"

      Why should I? Why would anyone reject something so kind?

      "Is it more comfortable to cower?"

      If it means I don't have to receive that which I deserve, then YES! Let's see ... My choices are spend eternity in absolute joy and happiness with God ... or spend eternity in anguish, "where the worm never dies and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." Hmm ... which to choose?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Pete

      Topher, if you had any morals you would stand up like a man and take the punishment you deserve, but you don't so you will let an innocent man take your punishment for you.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      "If it means I don't have to receive that which I deserve, then YES! Let's see ... My choices are spend eternity in absolute joy and happiness with God ... or spend eternity in anguish, "where the worm never dies and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." Hmm ... which to choose?"

      I would think you would prefer justice, but you instead prefer cowering.

      You claim that god is just, but it appears that he is just a vindictive pr1ck

      Why stay here is you are going to be in heaven (on your knees)?

      Come on, Topher.....a quick jump in front of a bus should do it

      June 18, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Why would anyone reject something so kind?"

      Justice? Morality?

      You know, stuff you avoid

      June 18, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • Topher

      Pete

      "Topher, if you had any morals you would stand up like a man and take the punishment you deserve, but you don't so you will let an innocent man take your punishment for you."

      My morals are lacking, just like everyone else's. Despite that, God has freely given this offer to me ... and to you. "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8. He paid our ransom knowing you, Pete, and me, Topher, would sin against Him. And He makes us the offer anyway. There is no kinder offer anyone can make to you or no greater demonstration of love. "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13

      June 18, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • sam stone

      You know nothing about other people's morality, Topher

      June 18, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • sam stone

      No free will with an omniscient god, Topher. You have run like a coward from this discussion before, and will likely do it again....now, beg before your god gets really angry

      June 18, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      This is the best of both worlds. Justice is satisfied and I don't have to go to Hell. How cool is that?! And what might be even better news than that is I get to be with God — the one who loves me so much He walked away from His throne to suffer and die, taking my punishment for me.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • sam stone

      Topher cannot engage in rational conversation, so he posts biblical quotes and hides behind the dubious authority of the bible. Saves him from actually having to think

      June 18, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • sam stone

      "This is the best of both worlds. Justice is satisfied"

      Not if an innocent person has to pay for your sins

      "I don't have to go to Hell. How cool is that?"

      I suppose that slaves will find their slavery to be comfortable

      "And what might be even better news than that is I get to be with God — the one who loves me so much He walked away from His throne to suffer and die"

      We are aware of your claim.....jeebus had a bad weekend for your sins

      June 18, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Pete

      I am perfectly willing to take my own punishment. If I deserve hell then so be it, that only makes me more moral than god who set up this completely immoral situation.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Pete

      If I somehow end up in heaven would I have to spend eternity dealing with Christians? Because that sounds more like hell to me, so I am probably screwed either way.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Topher

      Pete

      "I am perfectly willing to take my own punishment."

      You'll get your chance.

      "If I deserve hell then so be it, that only makes me more moral than god who set up this completely immoral situation."

      Please explain to me how your breaking laws makes you a) moral and b) more moral than a perfect being?

      June 18, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • sam stone

      Topher confuses justice with revenge. To be fair, it is a distinction probably lost on the iron age sheep mounters who wrote the bible.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Pete

      Of course if South Park is right then Topher and I will both be in hell because neither one of us is a Mormon.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Please explain to me how your breaking laws makes you a) moral and b) more moral than a perfect being?"

      Are you truly that daft, Topher?

      It is not breaking the laws that makes one moral, it is the willingness to take the punishment (which you are not)

      It is this supposedly perfect being who set up this immoral situation to begin with

      June 18, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Pete

      God set up a completely immoral situation where he let Jesus take other people's punishment. Since here on Earth just about anyone would think that letting someone else take your punishment is immoral that makes most of the people on Earth more moral than god.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • Topher

      Pete

      "God set up a completely immoral situation where he let Jesus take other people's punishment."

      I'd agree if Jesus were just some guy. But He's God Himself. The spotless lamb. The Bible tells us there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. That's why in the OT you had all the animal sacrifices ... but that was just a covering of sins until the final lamb would come. That's Jesus. "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world."

      "Since here on Earth just about anyone would think that letting someone else take your punishment is immoral that makes most of the people on Earth more moral than god."

      No. That makes most people here under a misunderstanding of morality and God's standard. If the crime were merely between you and me, it's not that big a deal. You punch me in the nose or have me thrown in jail. Case closed. But sins are against a perfect God whose standards are so much higher than ours. That's why one little lie deserves Hell. "All liars will have their part in the lake of fire." Jesus said to be perfect, "as yourFather in Heaven is perfect." It's a standard none of us can reach on our own. That's why Jesus died. Because you aren't qualified. And He loves you anyway. And thus took your punishment.

      Anyway, off to the grind. Have a great day, guys.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • sam stone

      Pete: Of course, it is not "god" that people are more moral than, it is the iron age sheep molesters who wrote, translated and edited the bible who are the immoral thugs. And, of course, the slappies like Topher who are willing to exchange justice for mercy

      June 18, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • sam stone

      "That makes most people here under a misunderstanding of morality and God's standard"

      Of course, Topher is god's personal spokesperson

      June 18, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
  7. Look Up

    Acts 1: 9 – 11

    Romans 8:1

    1 Thessalonians 4: 16 – 18

    1 Peter 5: 5 – 11

    1 John 1: 5 – 10

    Revelation 19: 11 – 16

    Revelation 21: 1 – 8

    John 3: 16 – 21

    Proverbs 1: 1 – 7

    June 18, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Look Up

      Before those who want to immediately slam my post, if you have a Bible or look up online, read all the passages I have noted.

      Be wise, learn to take instructions before blasting off your insults or nasty comments or name calling.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Daniel

      That's taking your bible out of context. Read it all or don't call yourself a Christian. Read it all with the r a p e and inc est, child murder, genocide, slavery and chauvinism, because if you don't, you really do not know who you are taking sides with do you.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Posting scripture on a blog where a bunch of Atheists are is rather futile. Most of us were brainwashed by our parents in a similar manner that you have been and have read the buybull. In fact reading the buybull is said to be the quickest way to make one a non-believer-perhaps you should try it...it might actually make you realize exactly how much of a vindictive murderer, child abuser, control freak your imaginary friend really is.
      2 billion christards in this world of 7 billion people...seems like your belief system is on the decline...this of course is a good thing.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I am very good at taking instruction when I find it crucial or beneficial, but I don't just "take instruction" from someone who tells me I should. So thanks, but no thanks. If you would like to discuss a concept contained within some of those scriptures please express the concept, why I should "buy into it," and how the scripture expresses it in a valuable and unique manner.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • sam

      I was just thinking, "Damn, we do not get enough bible quotes in here. I hope someone posts a whole list of them, that would be super awesome."

      June 18, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Look Up

      Either you have those verses memorized, didn't bother to read them or you haven't come to the obvious conclusion earth is a sinful world that Satan roams lying to people like you that this is suppose to be like heaven. It's not. God made a perfect place, man and woman sinned against GOD and we all live in s fallen world.

      That is the bad news.

      There is good news.

      Read the passages.

      Hope is available.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      The bible says so much stupid sh!t that I can't take any of it seriously.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Look Up

      You'd better get off that Satanically inspired computer of yours.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • sam

      Thanks for continuing to make god sound like a tyrannical douchebag. Good job!

      June 18, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • Look Up

      What Satan meant for evil, God can redeem and use for good. Even my computer. You probably wish GOD didn't exist so you don't have to be accountable for your behavior and sins.

      He loves you anyway. Yes, even those doubters.

      John 3:16

      June 18, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • sam

      Yeeeeeah, he loves everybody right up until he doesn't.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Excuses and circular reasoning aren't going to work. Oh the pitfalls of ignorance.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      He loves everyone so much that he refuses to show his existence; kills numerous people via giant flood (haha); allows millions of innocent children to die of starvation; allowed his own child to be killed; raped and impregnated a 14 year old girl; condones child abuse; and sends anyone who questions its existence to a place the christards are gullible to believe called hell. Sounds like a real loving imaginary friend you have there!

      June 18, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      My fictional god can kick your fictional god's ass...

      June 18, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      @Truth – You forgot about the dinosaurs... they couldn't pray to him in English, so god caused an asteroid to wipe them out 10,000 years ago...

      June 18, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Lucifer's Evil Twin: Wait a minute, don't young earth creationists believe that dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth together??

      June 18, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      10,000 years ago he only wiped out the dinosaurs with the asteroid, leaving all of the humans alive... but then they pissed him off 998 years ago and he killed off all humans... (except Noah's incestuous family)

      June 18, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Now god told the writers of the bible about the dinosaurs; however they being bronze-age sheep herders... they of course had no idea what dinosaurs were... so the copyright editors of the time decided to cut all mention of dinosaurs (and ice age creatures) from the bible and replaced it instead with hate gays and hate everyone who disagrees with you...

      June 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Roger that

      Yeeeeeah, he loves everybody right up until he doesn't.

      I can picture Jesus sitting around a campfire in heaven, strumming a guitar, and singing "I used to love her" by Guns and Roses.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • Look Up

      It is much easier than you make sound.

      GOD hates sin. GOD loves the sinner, and HE demonstrated throughout history. Still does today. Though the days are like the days of Noah.

      Go ahead make your wise and almost intelligent comments about Noah.

      Having too much joy sharing with non believers.

      Have a interesting time blogging your little hearts out.

      Bye for now. Be back later, depending upon your mood.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Ken

      "Posting scripture on a blog where a bunch of Atheists are is rather futile."

      And where are these atheists? On a belief blog. That would be like a Christian crashing a Muslim service. I would call that christian a poor example. So what does that make you then?

      June 18, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • sam

      C'mon, Ken, you can do better than that. Christians and muslims believe in the same abrahamic god, so your comparison is pretty thin.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Eagles

      Great scriptural references, Look Up! Fantastic compilation!

      June 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      lookup sez:
      "GOD hates sin. GOD loves the sinner,"
      ok this is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read.
      So let me get this straight. God loves the sinner ... but how can the sinner BE a sinner if he doesn't sin? ( which god hates )
      so now the sinner doesn't sin but god doesn't love him anymore because he is now NOT a sinner.
      So to get gods love you have to do the thing he hates?
      On another note
      Who created Satan?

      June 18, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
  8. Robert Brown

    Micro-Evolution: This is the process of natural adaptation based on the genetic variety already existing in the organism. For example, the African, Indian, and Woolly Mammoth are all within the Elephant Kind, with variations that exist within their genetic code. Humans have red, black, brown, blond and white hair, all of this is part of the genetic code.

    Macro-Evolution: Macro means large scale changes as opposed to “micro” changes. Macro would be changes outside of the genetic code, for example a lizard acquiring wings is a large scale change. This change would be passed down through successive generations. Evolution proposes that these “Macro” changes are the result of genetic mutations since “God” is not part of the process. This is the method they believe “man” evolved from a “one” celled organism, to four legged animal to “Ape” then to “Human”. This whole process took millions of years and lots of random accidents.

    The “Bait and switch” takes place when students are shown real examples of “Micro-Evolution” also called “Natural selection”, to demonstrate the unproven, “faith” based concept of “Macro-Evolution”.

    Most people are not aware that Micro and Macro are completely different concepts. One is provable and can be demonstrated through “Scientific method” while the other is not science but “Faith” in an unproven concept. The process of the this method is below, “Micro-Evolution” fulfills this method and is biblical, while “Macro-Evolution” cannot fulfill the requirements of the scientific method, it is entirely based on “faith”.
    From truthnet.

    June 18, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • Waiting..

      for you to show the sources for your information.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Epigenetics

      In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype, caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence – hence the name epi- (Greek: επί- over, above, outer) -genetics, some of which are heritable.

      It refers to functionally relevant modifications to the genome that do not involve a change in the nucleotide sequence. Examples of such modifications are DNA methylation and histone modification, both of which serve to regulate gene expression without altering the underlying DNA sequence. Gene expression can be controlled through the action of repressor proteins that attach to silencer regions of the DNA. These changes may remain through cell divisions for the remainder of the cell's life and may also last for multiple generations. However, there is no change in the underlying DNA sequence of the organism; instead, non-genetic factors cause the organism's genes to behave (or "express themselves") differently.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • The real Tom

      Don't bother waiting. Here's the organization Robert is relying on. Too bad it has nothing to do with scientific facts.

      http://www.truthnet.org/index.php/contact/what-does-truthnet-org-believe

      June 18, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Daniel

      Looks like Robert is reading old books and still trying to conform his God theory around the science.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Chris B

      That is an important fact and truth about evolution. Good point, Robert!

      June 18, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Robert, how do you envision your argument about evolution affecting the reasoning of your reader? What is the goal of your post?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • sam stone

      wow, Robert believes it, so it must be true.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Ok. Now site a scientific source. "Kind," what a crock.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "From truthnet."
      ROTFLMAO Are you serious? Really? Truthnet? May I suggest a basic education in science?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Chris, do you understand how the genetic code evolves (not the animal itself), and that there is just one genetic code (not two; one for microevolution and one for macro), and how evolution is affected by a portion of a species being isolated from the rest of that species?

      The reason I ask is because, to me, it seems that if you knew some of the answers to these very basic questions, you'd not so easily be tricked into thinking such stupid reasoning as Robert's is in any way correct.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • 99% DNA Micro?

      "researchers sequenced the chimp genome in 2005, they have known that humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, making them our closest living relatives. But there are actually two species of apes that are this closely related to humans: bonobos (Pan paniscus) and the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). This has prompted researchers to speculate whether the ancestor of humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos looked and acted more like a bonobo, a chimpanzee, or something else—and how all three species have evolved differently since the ancestor of humans split with the common ancestor of bonobos and chimps between 4 million and 7 million years ago in Africa.

      An international team of researchers has sequenced the genome of the bonobo for the first time, confirming that it shares the same percentage of its DNA with us as chimps do. The team also found some small but tantalizing differences in the genomes of the three species—differences that may explain how bonobos and chimpanzees don't look or act like us even though we share about 99% of our DNA." – news.sciencemag.org

      June 18, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • ME II

      @Robert Brown,
      You are incorrect. The difference between "micro" and "macro" is just a matter of degree and accu.mulation.

      Anyone who denies the logical link between genetic changes within a population ("microevolution") and speciation ("macroevolution") is similar to someone who watches the sun come up in the east and move west across the sky, but denies that it will set in the west. The only difference between genetic changes within a population and generation of a new species from that population is time. Given enough time, the sun will set in the west. Given enough time, speciation will occur.
      (http://ncse.com/creationism/analysis/exrapolating-microevolution-to-macroevolution)

      June 18, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Topher

      Good stuff, Robert.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "Micro" vs. "Macro" evolution is an attempt by Creationists at obfuscation.
      The small, observable changes to which Mr. Brown refers are cu.mulative and exponential.
      Granted, if one belives the Earth to be less than 10,000 years, one cannot conceive of the net effect of the acc.umulated changes.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • G to the T

      You do realize that "marco-evolution" (a term no real scientist uses by the way) would be the natural result of millions of years of the "mirco-evolutionary" changes you agree do exist? We're talking MILLIONS of generations of change and the most you think can come out of that is some slight variance in hair color or skin tone?

      Oh, and "kind" is not a valid scientific description of any group of animals. It's a purely biblical usage and has never been fulled detailed as to what/how it would even be applied.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Rick

      @RB- important distinction to make, while one is observable the other has no observable evidence.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I wonder where Robert is?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Rick, you've not been paying attention; there's only one type, not two. The one we observe is the only one there is. The reason nobody takes the "anti-evolution" folks seriously is because they never know what the fvck they're talking about. You guys are basically saying that math isn't accurate because snakes curl up into a circle and not a "0"–it's so off base it's not even wrong-it's just jibberish.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Can you imagine

      Robert and Topher arguing against Galileo at the Inquisition: "This is preposterous! The sun revolves around the earth!"

      June 18, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      RB, Read "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin. It will explain how we can prove the common descent from fish through mammals to apes to humans.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • fred

      Again the atheist fails to observe a clear sign from God. The biologist should clearly observe evolutionary processes point to one source of life. Yes, evolution processes point the biologist to the origin of life 3.8 billion years ago when God said let it be and so it was. Every single species biologists find to this day point back though the cenancestor (LUCA). Just how is it God does not have your attention? All of science at that point throws their hands in the air and no knowledge of how or why biopoiesis began. In short I don't know is a pretty poor reason to reject what is the basis of your belief that everything came from one supernatural causation.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred,
      I don't know is a pretty poor reason to believe in supernatural causation.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Fred
      more lies. If you agree that life began 3.8 Billion (or so) years ago, then you agree that god didn't create it, at least that is not what would agree with your bible.

      Why do all humans have neanderthal DNA? We can't if the bible is correct.
      Why do all humans develop gill slits as they devlop in the womb. Evidence the bible is wrong and evolution has occurred. An impossibility if you think the bible is right.
      How could all humans develop from one genetic se?. They can't. Proof that the bible is wrong.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      fred
      I don't know is only reaason to believe that we don't know. To then jump to a wild conclusion that goddidit is simply illogical and unreasonable.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "In short I don't know is a pretty poor reason to reject what is the basis of your belief that everything came from one supernatural causation."

      To clarify, "I don't know" is not the reason that supernatural causation is rejected. Lack of evidence is the reason it is not an accepted explanation.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      fred: "Just how is it God does not have your attention?"

      I suppose I could waste my time with lots of attention to my spam folder. But why should I?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      I just read those remarks I posted this morning and found them interesting. Do you apply the same degree of skepticism to what scientists say, as you apply to the idea of God?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      No, Robert.

      God is invisible and undetectable by any verifiable method. Scientists are easily visible and detectable and do not make claims on that which cannot be independently verified. When god is as visible and detectable as the scientists and when he offers claims that can be tested by verifiable methods, then I will treat his claims with as much skepticism as I treat the scientists' claims.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • maximo

      ME II,
      "The only difference between genetic changes within a population and generation of a new species from that population is time. Given enough time, the sun will set in the west. Given enough time, speciation will occur."

      You help make Robert Brown's case here. Macro-evolutionists put their hope in "given enough time". Macro-evolutionists wish there was data in the fossil record to support this hope. Its hope and faith! Macro-evolutionary theory stands as the current establishment creed while they await and hope for evidence.

      BTW, how many falsified evidence has presented over the years (for macro)?

      Also, don't muddy the waters by lumping micro and macro together!

      June 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Robert, when will you be addressing the several excellent rebuttals to the errors contained in the assumptions of your opening post?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      “There is no such thing as a total lack of b.i.a.s. I have it; everybody has it. The fossil hunter in the field has it.... In everybody who is looking for h.o.m.i.n.i.d.s, there is a strong urge to learn more about where the human line started. If you are working back at around three million, as I was, that is very s.e.d.u.c.t.ive, because you begin to get an idea that that is where H.o.m.o. did start. You begin straining your eyes to find H.o.m.o. traits in fossils of that age.... Logical, maybe, but also b.i.a.s.e.d. I was trying to jam evidence of dates into a pattern that would support conclusions about fossils which, on closer inspection, the fossils themselves would not sustain” (Johanson and Edey, 1981, pp. 257,258, emp. added).

      He went on to admit: “It is hard for me now to admit how tangled in that thicket I was. But the i.n.s.i.d.i.o.u.s. thing about b.i.a.s. is that it does make one deaf to the cries of other evidence” (p. 277).
      Sorry for all the .’s couldn’t figure out which word was “bad.”

      June 18, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      maximo, you are going to make yourself appear very foolish, here, very quickly. You may want to go do some research on evolution and the erroneous "description" of "macro" and "micro" evolution. Go back through this thread and read it carefully. Can you answer the questions put forth to Robert so far?

      Again, if any of you doubters can help refine the science of evolution by showing where it is drastically wrong and in need of massive alteration, your Nobel prize is waiting. Go get it; when you're accepting it for your extremely easy effort, you can make a huge speech about your god and how he does things and then go touring around the world evangelizing with the power of your new fame. It should be easy for you

      June 18, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • fred

      Richard Cranium
      Evolutionary process is not in conflict with the Bible. The Bible reports 6 creation periods and a period of rest for a total of 7 periods. Again the Bible with 3,400 years of written tradition and thousands of years prior to that oral tradition carried forward the 7 day period of God creating with purpose the existence of man. To this day that 7 day week stands and remains the international standard. The atheist I am sure also missed that big road sign and has no idea why there was a 7 period creation cycle.
      Either way, since you brought up Neanderthal, Genesis shows and ordered path leading to man. Man was formed from the dust of the earth (that is the most prevalent scientific speculation as to abiogenesis) according to the Bible then God breathed life into man. That is the key to Adam who consists of dust (carbon, DNA etc.) the physical form and the image of God which is the spiritual form (that is eternal life). The Bible and evolutionists agree as to the origin of the physical from a biological stand point yet differ on cosmology as to the origin of "dust" (and of course atheists believe there is no spiritual)

      Even C.S. Lewis caught a great deal of flack with his notion that Adam and Eve need not be real people as the Bible addresses our eternal soul not the Neanderthal DNA.

      As to 3.8 billion years or 10,000 years the Bible never gives a time certain because it is irrelevant to the purpose of creation. The 6,000 year or 10,000 year period was a creation of man attempting to add up generations listed the Bible. The problem with this approach is that only important male linage was recorded for certain and specifically that related to establishing Jesus as the promised seed.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Do you guys realize the extent of extrapolation applied to some “scientific evidence”?

      The missing link extrapolated from a supposed human tooth which turned out to be a pig’s tooth.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • Science

      Teaching Complete Evolutionary Stories Increases Learning...........Robert Brown

      June 15, 2013 —

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130615152417.htm

      June 18, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      RB, Yes, science is effectively self-corrrecting. Read the case of Hwang Woo-suk as one example where a break-through was claimed but could not be reproduced.
      To your other point the fossil record will never be as complete as we'd like – typically bones are gone within decades – but the fossil record is more complete than you imply; we have fossils of whales with legs, etc.
      It's a pity you weren't on the board when all this was explained to Chad.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • ME II

      @maximo,
      "Macro-evolutionists wish there was data in the fossil record to support this hope. Its hope and faith! Macro-evolutionary theory stands as the current establishment creed while they await and hope for evidence."

      There is plenty of evidence for evolution:
      fossils like Tiktaalik, Ambulo-cetus, Archeopteryx, etc.
      Bio-chemistry like Cytochrome-c.
      Biogeography like marsupials, penquins, etc.
      Genetics like Human Chromosome-2, ERVs, etc.
      Experiments like Lenski's long term e.coli experiment.

      "BTW, how many falsified evidence has presented over the years (for macro)?"

      If you mean fraud and/or incorrectly identified fossils, there are some, true, but there are far more verifiable fossils that support evolution and absolutely no fossils that disprove evolution.

      "Also, don't muddy the waters by lumping micro and macro together!"

      Please, explain your understanding of the specific difference between "macro" and "micro".

      June 18, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Robert Brown
      You really need to update your information. No one is looking for the "missing link" anymore. Since they broke the genetic code, that went out the window.
      There is no missing link. There are gaps in our knowledge, but we are working to fill in the gaps with more information.
      As we fill in the gaps, your bible is being disproven, time and time again. It will soon be thrown away by any with logic.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      It is not logical or reasonable to reject empirical evidence simply because it does meet a commonly accepted scientific method or standard when that community is well aware of the fact such methods and standards are limited to that which is composed of matter and energy (which is the substance of the tools employed).

      At this point in time origin of life and or first cause must be supernatural simply by virtue of not currently understandable in then natural. Science cannot and does not comment on the nature or properties of the supernatural. The Bible deals with the reasons for God and defines that which can only be seen through faith yet has power in the present and is composed of matter not known to man.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • maximo

      Cpt Obv,

      Why did you skip over my main point?

      Macro is micro extrapolated over millions of years. OK, fine – it does not address my point:

      Fossil record should about with evidence of "macro-evolution".</b

      June 18, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred, So the bible is not literally true, but there is no evidence that it is true in any sense. btw C.S. Lewis died decades before we knew about the Neanderthal DNA.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Peer review – Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ...

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peer%20review

      Definition of PEER REVIEW: a process by which something proposed (as for research or publication) is evaluated by a group of experts in the appropriate field

      Or
      Peer review- folks with similar ideas to my own, agree with my conclusions.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      RB, Peer review is not as you characterize – read about the case of Hwang Woo-suk per my earlier reply.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • fred

      I don't use the words gaps because it takes on the wrong meaning. The bottom line is that atheists use the evolutionary processes as their foundation for the argument "no god needed" which is in error as any honest biologist will tell you. Extrapolating this process into a world view of godlessness is every bit as bad as for me to believe in Christ because abiogenesis points to one source for the origin of life

      June 18, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Science

      Old earth...........craetionists.......fred

      http://phys.org/news/2013-04-feast-clue-ancient-earth.html

      http://beforeitsnews.com/science-and-technology/2013/04/tiny-1900-million-year-old-fossils-from-rocks-around-lake-superior-canada-2581584.html

      June 18, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • maximo

      ME II,

      "Please, explain your understanding of the specific difference between "macro" and "micro"."

      Robert Brown summed it up very well in his OP. I use the terms with respect to the fossil record.

      You admit there have been both fraudulent and erroneously identified fossils promoting evolution.

      But, evolutionary theory predicts that we should find an abundance of evidence in the fossil record for more transitory forms between species. This must be a sore point amongst evolutionists.

      (Show me convincing evidence in the fossil record someday (decade, century) and I might just then become a theistic evolutionists on the macro scale. Currently only a case has been made for the micro scale.)

      June 18, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Science

      Oops creationists .

      June 18, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Guys, I am not anti science. I think science is fascinating. The scientific method makes sense. Many people do not believe in God because of what scientists tell them. So, when someone says, “here is what we have found,” that is great. Where you should become a little more skeptical is when they say, “because of this we know.” No, because of this you may think or believe, this and that and a few other things, the problem is the ideas or thoughts are presented as facts.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      fred
      So Adam was a single celled organism?

      June 18, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Joey

      Is wolves to dogs micro or macro?

      June 18, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • fred

      In Santa We Trust
      That is why the Bible is Divine. Adam, Eve and the Serpent work from any view point and for all generations since this oral tradition began. Early middle eastern man understood the physical and deadly serpents nature while todays biologist would argue genetics and forming a woman out of a rib does not work yet the story presents the same picture then as now. The serpent presents the same deception then as now. Nothing man or time can do to affect the Living Word of God.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Robert says: "I just read those remarks I posted this morning and found them interesting. Do you apply the same degree of skepticism to what scientists say, as you apply to the idea of God?"

      Yes. That's why I judge your source, truth net, to be totally unworthy of any notice at all.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Pete

      Robert instead of truthnet, try this site:

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evoscales_01

      June 18, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "It is not logical or reasonable to reject empirical evidence simply because it does meet a commonly accepted scientific method..."

      Perhaps I misunderstand, but if it is "empirical evidence" then it does fall under the purview of science and therefore can be rejected for not meeting standards.

      "At this point in time origin of life and or first cause must be supernatural simply by virtue of not currently understandable in then natural."

      That is incorrect. A thing cannot be deemed supernatural simply because we don't understand it. It must be shown to be supernatural, else lightening would have been correctly classed as supernatural in ancient times.

      "Science cannot and does not comment on the nature or properties of the supernatural."

      This is correct. However, I would point out that the existence of "the supernatural" has never been shown, proven, or otherwise evidenced, as far as I'm aware.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • fred

      Richard Cranium
      No, Adam was the first modern man to live in the presence of God and experience existence in a perfect world. Adam was representative of the first man which broke away from Gods presence to live in the physical /spiritual form subject to natural laws.

      If God used a process that we interpret as evolutionary process to create then Genesis went through the steps of nebular hypothesis through abiogenesis etc. with man being the last formed from "the dust"

      June 18, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Robert, I know for a fact that the evolutionary theory has many incorrect ideas that need to be updated and fixed. Your perspective is not unconvincing because of your bias, you perspective is unconvincing because it is ignorant. I am very sure that with many years of hard work and dedication that you could find a flaw in the evolutionary model and adjust the theory so that it is defined slightly more accurately after your research has been applied. But your current complaints are just silly for whole library stacks of reasons, so it's just you yipping and dodging. It's boring and it's wrong. Try again.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      Good points, I was referring to supernatural as something that transcends the laws of nature

      June 18, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • ME II

      @maximo,

      Robert Brown said, "Macro means large scale changes as opposed to 'micro' changes. Macro would be changes outside of the genetic code, for example a lizard acquiring wings is a large scale change."

      If the difference is in scale, then what scale specifically determines the distinction? 1 mm, 1 cm, 1 m?
      "Changes outside the genetic code" makes no sense as any change would necessarily be within the genetic code, i.e changes in the DNA, correct?

      "You admit there have been both fraudulent and erroneously identified fossils promoting evolution."

      Yes, obviously, and most, if not all, were exposed using scientific methods. Are you claiming that there are no hoaxes or frauds related to the supernatural?

      "But, evolutionary theory predicts that we should find an abundance of evidence in the fossil record for more transitory forms between species. This must be a sore point amongst evolutionists."

      Why? They are there. They exist. There are, I think, millions of them.

      Here's some highlights:

      http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/

      http://www.amnh.org/explore/news-blogs/news-posts/a-walking-whale-ambulocetus
      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03

      http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
      http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils

      June 18, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,
      The bottom line is that atheists use the evolutionary processes as their foundation for the argument "no god needed" which is in error as any honest biologist will tell you.
      ..........
      There are some of us who rule out the gods by their lack of credibility in the men who write about them. Your bible lacks great credibility and is at best fictional. I don't need science to come to this conclusion.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,
      .....something that transcends the laws of naturegreat credibility and is at best fictional. I don't need science to come to this conclusion
      ..........
      Like fairies, dragons, demons and spells.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      Quantum theory is advancing to the stage where alternate realities are a reality. So far that lacks credibility also but is the current speculation as to no god needed.
      We have hard evidence that the power of the Word of God is real. Consider that the 7 day week which is international standard to this day came from an oral tradition 10,000 years ago and put into writing by Moses 3,400 years ago. How many days in your week ?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,
      We have hard evidence that the power of the Word of God is real. Consider that the 7 day week which is international standard to this day came from an oral tradition 10,000 years ago and put into writing by Moses 3,400 years ago. How many days in your week ?
      --------------
      Cor re ction, you have as sumptions in the word of men is real. Secondly, w tf is your point about the 7 day week? We have In God We Trust on our money....that proves yoru God is real????? Dude, get help

      June 18, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      If a seven-day week is evidence of god then the name "Thursday/Thor's day" is evidence that the god is Thor. Morons.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      I always thought that the 7 day week came from a division of a ~28 day lunar cycle split into the major phases of the moon, full, 1st quarter, new, last quarter.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,
      The bible was written around 800 B.C. give or take a couple hundred years. Going beyond that gives you very little credibility.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      No, the origin of the 7 day week was in honor of God who created in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Following the days of Noah when people were scattered throughout the world they took this knowledge with them even though they forgot its origin.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      The oral tradition of the Hebrew goes back well beyond 800 BC. Given exact records of Hebrew family lines going back to Adam and Eve would put a minimum of 4,000 BC for oral traditions I think it was older.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      When there is lack of evidence you default to the atheist line and I default to the fact I have had a personal experience with God. You discount my personal experience as well as millions of others that are identical. You discount that fact all of our presidents had faith in God and the Declaration of Independence was not signed until Gods blessing was requested, you discount the fact biology/ physics/ mathematics and cosmology all point towards a single source of life at which point God or no god is a matter of faith, you discount the fact the Bible is the only holy book that gets creation right, you discount the fact we have empirical evidence that the power of God (real of illusionary) effects every walk of life, you discount the fact 98% of the worlds population believe existence is more than the physical, you discount prophecy that came true, you discount the fact the Bible reveals the true heart of the reader, you discount the fact the writing of Saul of Tarsus is accepted confirming the origin of Christian Church, you discount the fact materialism the foundation of naturalism was debunked with quantum mechanics, you discount the fact that pre big bang quantum gravitational phase is the equivalent to when God said "let it be and it was"..........................................etc

      June 18, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Robert Brown, you are lying when you mischaracterize the peer review process so terribly. If you want rational people to take you seriously you shouldn't lie. Why do you Christians so often resort to lying when it comes to defending one of your ignorant claims?

      June 18, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Pete

      Fred, what if life is found on another planet, and it is determined that it started at a different time than life started on our planet, and it is different in some way than life on Earth? To me this seems likely to happen at some point, and would prove that there was not a single source of life.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • fred

      Pete
      I am trying to think of a verse that would limit Gods power of creation and there are none. Given Gods attributes one would expect a never ending stream of creation.

      The odds against more than one beginning of the evolutionary process on earth is 10 to the power of 3,280. Anything outside our system would be a guess.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "The odds against more than one beginning of the evolutionary process on earth is 10 to the power of 3,280. Anything outside our system would be a guess."

      How do you figure that?

      June 18, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Pete

      Given enough time anything that can happen will happen.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      Sorry Douglas Theobald the author of the study wants $32 to access the data.

      Here is a summary I can get without paying for the backup that contains the math:
      http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/douglas_theobald_tests_univers041021.html

      June 18, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      Thanks for the link, even if it was a ID critique of real science.

      "The odds against more than one beginning of the evolutionary process on earth is 10 to the power of 3,280. Anything outside our system would be a guess."

      I still don't think your statement is correct. The paper that your article critiques seems to have been discussing the odds that existing protein sequences would occur through convergent evolution from non-common ancestors. That is different that calculating the odds of an as-yet-unknown process, abiogenesis, occurring twice on Earth. In other words, Theobald wasn't calculating the odds of the origin of life, but doing statistical analysis of existing organism.
      Disclaimer: I did not read the original paper, only the ID critique of it which almost by definition means I don't have a clue what the actual paper actually said.

      June 18, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      Several other sources picked up on the same number (http://news.discovery.com/animals/dinosaurs/life-single-common-ancestor.htm) Discovery magazine "A universal common ancestor is at least 10²⁸⁶⁰ times more probable than having multiple ancestors, Theobald calculates."

      Hard to know what to believe.............good thing the Bible is clear and simple. One source (God) said "do not eat from that tree or you will surely die" The serpent said "did God really say that?" The difference between the reality you see and the one I see is the Word of God. To resolve the doubt Eve used sight "she looked and saw it was pleasing to the eye and desirable for gaining wisdom". This thread runs throughout the Bible as is by faith not by sight we come into the presence of God.

      Science always reaches the end of what can be seen and in this case we are stuck at the beginning just as the ancients were. This beginning applies to solar formation as well. You claim not to know due to lack of evidence however you really do know because of lack of evidence. In other words you are dependent on sight alone which is the state of reality for non believers. Your faith is in the deception (lack of evidence) while my faith is in the word of God not by sight.

      June 18, 2013 at 7:56 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,

      Its your delusion and faith in man, enjoy the ride.

      June 18, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      Actually, you are caught up in that delusion as well. You have made a decision to accept the way of the serpent (doubt God) or the Word of God as you destiny. That is the truth......................you did choose one or the other right?

      June 18, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred, There is no scientific evidence for creationism and these ID sites that you refer to only try to muddy the water as if that somehow proves creationism. These ID sites offer no scientific explanations or data just try to chip away at the science that disproves creationism.

      June 18, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred
      "... we are stuck at the beginning just as the ancients were. This beginning applies to solar formation as well."

      Cosmologists know about solar formation.

      "You claim not to know due to lack of evidence however you really do know because of lack of evidence."

      That makes no sense. You seem to be saying because our primitive ancestors attributed the uncertainty and randomness of life to the whims of gods, we are forever attached to their superstitions. We may not know what, if anything, was pre-Big Bang but that doesn't mean that a god did it.

      June 18, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • maximo

      ME ii,

      from http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_48:

      "It is not necessarily easy to "see" macroevolutionary history; there are no firsthand accounts to be read. Instead, we reconstruct the history of life using all available evidence: geology, fossils, and living organisms."

      In other words, there is an embarrassing fossil record that does not support macroevolution.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      maximo, Taking that quote out of context makes it seem that the document supports your postion that evolution has yet to be proven. Read on and see what it says.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:24 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "Several other sources picked up on the same number..."

      I was not disputing the number necessarily, only what that number means or its implication. What Theobald did was an inductive analysis of existing protein sequences. What you suggested with, "the odds against more than one beginning of the evolutionary process on earth is 10 to the power of 3,280," is that he could determine the odds of abiogenesis happening more than one time. That is incorrect as your linked article stated:

      "Theobald's study does not address how many times life may have arisen on Earth. Life could have originated many times, but the study suggests that only one of those primordial events yielded the array of organisms living today."
      ( http://news.discovery.com/animals/dinosaurs/life-single-common-ancestor.htm )

      What he said, according to the discovery article, is that given the "selected 23 proteins" it was 10^3489 times more likely that such occurrences were due to a single common ancestor with gene transfer than due to multiple ancestors. Additionally, it must be noted that this was based on "computer simulations to evaluate how likely various evolutionary scenarios were to produce the observed array of proteins." The odds produced would be heavily dependent on how those simulations were designed and implemented.

      June 19, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • ME II

      @maximo,
      As @In Santa We Trust said, keep reading.

      "A process like mutation might seem too small-scale to influence a pattern as amazing as the beetle radiation, or as large as the difference between dogs and pine trees, but it's not. Life on Earth has been accu[]mulating mutations and passing them through the filter of natural selection for 3.8 billion years — more than enough time for evolutionary processes to produce its grand history."

      June 19, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Science

      Hey fred.....all creationists...........chadie too ...............COMEDY GOLD links at bottom of post !!!

      The pesky meteorites/chondrites = life .........................not the nasty bible. and Adam and his bone.

      No horn-y red beast needed.......no heaven either..........but they (meteorites) where hot when they where coming in.

      Life-Producing Phosphorus Carried to Earth by Meteorites

      June 4, 2013 — Scientists may not know for certain whether life exists in outer space, but new research from a team of scientists led by a University of South Florida astrobiologist now shows that one key element that produced life on Earth was carried here on meteorites.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130604153520.htm

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/heaven-for-atheists-pope-sparks-debate/#comments

      And faithy chew on native iron stones all your life...............it drives the medical tests nuts !

      19. Solar nebula (repeat)
      Most meteorites are very old, as old as the solar system (4.6 billion years). Because meteorites haven't changed much since then, they are the best clues we have to the origin and history of the solar system and of the Earth. (Painting by Don Dixon, NASA JSC photo S76-25001)

      http://ares.jsc.nasa.gov/education/SlideSets/ExpMetMys/Slides35-42.htm

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/04/atheists-to-start-1-800-hotline/comment-page-27/#comments

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/09/my-take-a-word-to-christians-be-nice/comment-page-44/#comments

      Application Timestamp: 5191e7aa

      June 19, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • John Stemberger

      fred

      John Stemberger
      Actually, you are caught up in that delusion as well. You have made a decision to accept the way of the serpent (doubt God) or the Word of God as you destiny. That is the truth......................you did choose one or the other right?

      ---------------
      No Fred, I did not choose one or the other. I see no reason to believe that your particular god exists or a serphant is slithering around talking. I do not see a reason to believe in your magic sky wizard. I see no reason to put my faith in men who talked about talking animals and magical things. I dont think you can grasp what I am saying

      June 19, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • fred

      ME II
      " passing them through the filter of natural selection for 3.8 billion years — more than enough time for evolutionary processes to produce its grand history."

      =>As with the spiritual evolution of man. We see through the 10,000 years of oral and written revelations of the Hebrew the evolution of soul mutating into the image of God in man as was the designed purpose for creation. The process of natural selection of the soul works to fully reveal and refine that which is good and evil. I suspect you think it just coincidence that the tree of life is at the center of the natural selection process of the bible and biology but that does not change the fact. To the biologist a rooted phylogenetic tree will have Adam and Eve branching off into you and I where one carries a trait inclined towards God while the other has lost that perspective. Like a child that can no longer see invisible friends and talking animals we can no longer access faith that can move mountains. According to the Bible as we approach the end of days only a small remnant of the population will have the capacity to see God and understand the talking serpent. The population of that day will be as in days of Noah when everyone mocked those of faith and were filled only with increasing desires of self interest thinking no god needed.

      Yes, I agree with you it is one grand history. The Bible is the history of the redemption of those longing for a Promised Land.

      June 19, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • LOL!

      "The population of that day will be as in days of Noah when everyone mocked those of faith and were filled only with increasing desires of self interest thinking no god needed."

      There is no way the story of Noah is actually true since there is no boat large enough for all the species of animals in the world on it and the food that each would individually need. Plus there is no way Noah would have known what each of those animals ate to keep them alive for the days the bible states. Only a moron would actually think the story is true.

      June 19, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,

      Huh?

      June 19, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,

      According to the Bible as we approach the end of days only a small remnant of the population will have the capacity to see God and understand the talking serpent.
      ........................................................................................

      You clearly need help. As well as your 10,000 years claim have no substance, just assumption beyond 800 b.c. ish. You cannot grasp reality beyond the words of the bible that has very little substance. I think my conversation with you has reached an end. Enjoy the delusion

      June 19, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      The more I think about it, Fred actually appears to be a troll or seriously mentally ill.

      Fred, "Like a child that can no longer see invisible friends and talking animals we can no longer access faith that can move mountains."
      .
      That rings true. Christians are like children who still see invisible friends. Troll or somebody who cannot accept reality.

      .

      June 19, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      ME II

      @fred,

      Huh?
      -----
      I hear you.....he is a troll or bat***t crazy

      June 19, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Pete

      "I hear you.....he is a troll or bat***t crazy"

      He's a troll that lies about Christianity to try and sell it to others, but it's not related to what is actually written in the scriptures. He'll twist and turn it to try and fit modern day, it's very entertaining for awhile until you realize he'll repeat it constantly hoping to convince himself his lies are truth.

      June 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      I grasp what you are saying but I cannot grasp existence without purpose. We are an insignificant spec in the universe yet that spec has awareness of presence without boundaries. You deny the very existence of what is self evident. You limit existence to the natural while fully aware of presence without boundaries. Even the different limits of a conjectured elevendimensional theory (M-theory) only posit boundaries to allow statistical analysis of the distribution of
      some properties among the vacua. The fact there are no limits outside of the physical only to the physical is proof that your philosophical naturalism is flawed as a belief given its foundation in materialism.

      Perhaps you should consider why you must have a justification for every observable event that points to something greater than our insignificance.

      June 19, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • fred

      LOL!
      If you think the Flood Story is about boat mechanics or hydrology you missed the BOAT again !

      June 19, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • LOL!

      "If you think the Flood Story is about boat mechanics or hydrology you missed the BOAT again !"

      That's why Christians are trying to prove the boat existed. LOL! Yup their all idiots.

      June 19, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • fred

      LOL!
      Again the story is not about the boat but the fact few people (8 in the case of the flood story) believe in God to the extent they would spend 120 years building a boat in the desert where it never rained because God said so. That goes to the story of Adam and Eve where they did not obey (believe and trust God). Now, Noah and family went through the flood just like everyone else but, the difference is they were in the presence of God while the rest were not. Guess who made it to the promised land?

      June 19, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Pete

      "Again the story is not about the boat but the fact few people (8 in the case of the flood story) believe in God to the extent they would spend 120 years building a boat in the desert where it never rained because God said so. That goes to the story of Adam and Eve where they did not obey (believe and trust God). Now, Noah and family went through the flood just like everyone else but, the difference is they were in the presence of God while the rest were not. Guess who made it to the promised land?"

      @LOL! – Look fred is a troll who doesn't like actual facts and will twist the bible story to try and justify their god regardless if it actually goes against most of christian scholars and theologians. That's why his uneducated posts are so hysterical. I always stop by here when I need a good laugh.

      June 19, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • fred

      Pete
      Do tell me what the greatest of theologians say about the flood story

      June 19, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "You limit existence to the natural while fully aware of presence without boundaries."

      Again, huh?
      What is this "presence without boundaries" that you speak of?

      June 20, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • John Stemberger

      fred

      LOL!
      Again the story is not about the boat but the fact few people (8 in the case of the flood story) believe in God to the extent they would spend 120 years building a boat in the desert where it never rained because God said so.
      ----------------

      So do you believe in Noah and the flood to have happened??????????????????????

      June 20, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • fred

      MEII
      It is the only scientology thought where self awareness defines the limitless nature of the essence of man (soul). You close your eyes and look into your own soul to find there are no boundaries i.e. no physical constraints only sense of position. Although we believe the radius of the visible universe is about 46 billion light years self awareness does not detect that limit. If there are no limits then self awareness is eternal (visible universe is a function of time and speed of light). Hence the soul (self awareness is eternal)

      June 20, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • fred

      That it can be thought of does not make it a physical reality as anything other than a set of states in your brain.

      June 20, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      I believe God could have created any kind of construct including a real Noah flood event. I do not know if God did or did not create such a real event. The Bible is written such that the truth of God is clear and addresses the heart (soul) of the reader revealing what needs to be heard for a purpose onto God.
      Jesus referred to the flood event to express to Jews (who knew the story) that the End of Days would be the same where a few get taken to safety by God while the rest are wicked and oblivious to the coming judgment. Contrary to common apologetics I think Jesus hinted at the fact the flood story revealed that few find favor in the eyes of the Lord while the rest are tangled up in the offerings of this epicurean buffet. We can dissect the flood story to see how is it Noah found favor and what exactly was so wicked with everyone else. That makes more sense to me since geology and hydrology as known to date requires God to create a false construct of no real flood event simply to blind the atheists from the truth.

      June 20, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • ME II

      @fred,
      "ou close your eyes and look into your own soul to find there are no boundaries i.e. no physical constraints only sense of position. "

      I think that is called imagination. The limits include anything outside your own thoughts, i.e. reality.

      June 20, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • fred

      @fred
      I have not seen you on these boards in the daylight....................knowing vampires do not exist other than "a state of mind" I assume you are on vacation or off grave yard shift. I never could figure out why an atheist would take the grave yard shift (given they know those in the grave yard are going nowhere!............or have nothing to look forward to beyond the grave yard..........)

      June 20, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Happy Atheist

      Two comments from fred I find the funniest:

      "To this day that 7 day week stands and remains the international standard."

      "The oral tradition of the Hebrew goes back well beyond 800 BC. Given exact records of Hebrew family lines going back to Adam and Eve would put a minimum of 4,000 BC for oral traditions I think it was older."

      First, the oldest record of a seven day week was from the Babylonians who worshiped the lunar cycles. Babylonians celebrated a holy day every seven days, starting from the new moon, then the first visible crescent of the Moon, but adjusted the number of days of the final "week" in each month so that months would continue to commence on the new moon. The Zoroastrian calendar follows the Babylonian in relating the seventh and other days of the month to Ahura Mazda.

      Second, there was no oral history of lineage from Adam to Moses so that is total rubbish. Moses claimed to have been given a divine account which included a lineage of sons to fathers back to Adam after the Exodus, there are no other indications of any earlier knowledge of any oral account other than the one likely given them as they grew up slaves in Egypt of a great great grandfather Abraham who was a friend of some desert God. However the lineage Moses write down doesn't fit with any geological time lines that could fit with the account of a global flood which we now know did not happen, at least in the last 150,000 years. This leads rational persons to think the Adam and Eve and flood stories to be at best allegory and at worst total fiction.

      June 20, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      fred

      John Stemberger
      I believe God could have created any kind of construct including a real Noah flood event. I do not know if God did or did not create such a real event.
      ----------------
      So do you believe the bible regarding the flood or not? Simple question...no need to dance around it

      June 20, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • fred

      Happy Atheist
      It was the oral tradition of the Jew from the days of slavery in Egypt that contained the 7 day week. Amazing how an atheist will use information without any evidence to dispute lack of evidence from the Torah.
      As to the Bible and dates for the Flood or Adam and Eve the Bible does not give any. The children of Adam and Eve had names in singular as we do while Adam and Eve refer to representative types that can be understood as a person or simply mankind. Now, we have the beginning of mankind that had the breath of God then generations beginning with Cain and Able. Only significant patriarchs were listed that lead to the line of Christ. This is why we have no idea of the flood date.

      June 20, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,

      For clarity sake...when was your Torah written?

      June 20, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,

      "while Adam and Eve refer to representative types that can be understood as a person or simply mankind"
      ..
      Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
      .
      Fred your BS is showing...dance more little monkey...you are being dishonest with your self and your faith

      June 20, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      John I thought my answer was very clear was it not? I do not believe your understanding of the flood story. I do not believe your understanding that all the paired species of the world walked into a boat made out of gopher wood then floated on top of water that covered the whole earth for 370 days. Such a belief reflects complete lack of understanding of the Word of God.
      Could it have happened, yes but only if God creates a construct that does not follow current known natural laws. I suspect there is another alternative where the deception of serpent covered up evidence to the contrary or altered perspective such that we are following the wrong rabbit hole.

      June 20, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      The Torah was written before the foundations of the earth yet about 700 BC we begin to see some evidence of a "hard copy".

      June 20, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Fred,

      I suspect there is another alternative where the deception of serpent covered up evidence to the contrary or altered perspective such that we are following the wrong rabbit hole.
      .....................................
      You suspect a serphant covered up the evidence of a flood? So as science reveals the stories are BS in the bible, christians now have to move the ball around to justify their faith. The bible is pretty clear to the lines leading up to Adam...the original Adam clearly was a person in the bible...(not mankind). We can determine the approx date of the alleged flood based on the writings......and wouldnt you know it couldnt have happened. So now Fred is saying he suspects a serphant covered it up. Let me guess Fred you think a serphant planted dino bones? Fred do you realize how uneducated and unsound you are?????? You are in complete denial of reality. You are making up things and questions to appease your fear.

      June 20, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Why am I spelling serpent...serphant...part snake and elephant i guess.

      June 20, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • fred

      John
      As to Adam living a certain number of days that would be reference to the physical parents of Cain and Able, Seth etc. not verses related to formation of mankind.

      June 20, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      fred

      John Stemberger
      The Torah was written before the foundations of the earth yet about 700 BC we begin to see some evidence of a "hard copy".
      ---------
      And you are basing being written before the foundations of the Earth on writings from 700 BC? You dont see how foolish you sound? How unsound this is?

      June 20, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      fred

      John
      As to Adam living a certain number of days that would be reference to the physical parents of Cain and Able, Seth etc. not verses related to formation of mankind.
      -----–
      Wrong, mankind starts with Adam and Eve. Move the ball some more shall we?

      June 20, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • Science

      'Tracking in Caves': On the Trail of Pre-Historic Humans

      June 3, 2013 — In remote caves of the Pyrenees, lie precious remnants of the Ice Age undisturbed: foot and hand prints of prehistoric hunters.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130603113353.htm

      another planet freddy that does not have hair on it ?

      http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57590118-1/enjoy-all-1.3-billion-pixels-of-this-impressive-mars-panorama/

      June 20, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Okay you do not dispute that Adam was a person. How many years down the line is Noah from Adam?

      June 20, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      John Stemberger

      Okay you do not dispute that Adam was a person. How many years down the line is Noah from Adam?
      ..........
      Now...how many years from Noah to Jesus?

      June 20, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger

      I just don't Noah.........

      June 20, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      fred

      John Stemberger

      I just don't Noah.........
      ------–

      You cant have jesus's lineage and not know how many years back to Noah jesus was and how many years back to Adam. So will the real Fred please answer my question as to how many years back from Jesus to Noah and Noah to Adam

      June 20, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • fred

      John Stemberger
      Thanks for sending me down that line of Jesus. I was surprised just how many still stick with the 4000 year period from Adam to Jesus. I will need to give this some thought since I do not buy the agnostic line "I don't know" it seems hypocritical that I don't know. I actually think there are several possibilities but that is the same as I don't know

      June 20, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      fred

      John Stemberger
      Thanks for sending me down that line of Jesus. I was surprised just how many still stick with the 4000 year period from Adam to Jesus. I will need to give this some thought since I do not buy the agnostic line "I don't know" it seems hypocritical that I don't know. I actually think there are several possibilities but that is the same as I don't know
      .........
      Fred based on the bible Numbers etc... if there is a gap in the lineage...where is the gap?

      June 21, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      There can be no possibilities when it comes to "the word of god". There is no confusion, rather truth. Sounds like you need to resolve this "?"

      June 21, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
  9. Reality

    A short synopsis of the Jesus, the "supercon's" Resurrection Con:

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

    "Heaven is a Spirit state" as per JPII and Aquinas i.e. there can be no bodies. i.e. there was and never will be any physical resurrection/ascension of human bodies."

    And is it not ironical that JPII along with Aquinas are the ones who put meaning to the words "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is useless."

    June 18, 2013 at 10:51 am |
  10. His servant

    Man of Steel should only be observed as a moral example of our Lord JESUS not a comparison.

    June 18, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • sam stone

      both are fictional

      June 18, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • Daniel

      Maybe they will make a gay pron version where they get frictional...

      June 18, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Science

      And serve fish it is good to eat...................400 million years ago ?

      How fish won the oxygen war

      June 17, 2013 – for immediate release

      http://scinews.com.au/releases/787/view

      June 18, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Jesus, who scolded the jews for not killing their disobedient children. That morality?

      June 18, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Len

      Wouldn't Superman be more moral than Jesus? Jesus apparently is very selective of who's prayers he answers, but when did Sups ever choose not to save someone that he could have?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:30 am |
  11. Vic

    God tests people by Faith. God wants every soul to believe in Him. If God were to show Himself or anyone to have a direct proof of Him, there can be no test, and no one can have true faith anymore. A believer has it in his/her own heart that God IS.

    We CAN NOT see God BUT we see His mighty work.

    We humans tend to take life for granted. It might escape the average person how serious this creation is because attention is not paid. However, a scientist or so is in owe of what he/she sees when studying matters of this existence! The more you dig into science, the more you realize how scary serious God is!

    The more I learn everyday, the more I know how much I DON'T know!

    This Universe & Life In It ARE "Prima Facie" EVIDENCE Of God</i

    June 18, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • God sounds like

      the Borg. Satan's minions must be the crew of the Enterprise.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • Waiting..

      for Vic to stop using random italics.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • The real Tom

      "in owe"?

      Get it together, Vicky. You're starting to sound almost as stupid as faith.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      You are a prima facie nuisance...

      June 18, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I just had this vision of Vic with fingers in his ears going lalalalalalala.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Vic is

      an excitable boy. Open up wide, Vic... take your meds like a good boy. (They're really just Pop Rocks, but it's fun to watch his reaction.)

      June 18, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      more of Vic daily lies for god.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Vic

      Oops... I meant in awe

      I do this on the fly!

      June 18, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Daniel

      "is in owe of what he/she sees "

      Yes, Christians "owe" the rest of us a big apology for being such humongous di cks for the last 2000 years.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • sam stone

      vic: you are delusional. the universe is not evidence of god, except those predisposed to believe in god

      June 18, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • Yes Vicky

      mightily scary serious "on the fly"!

      June 18, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Happy Atheist

      There's only a few things wrong with your post Vic. First, we have 0 evidence of a soul. Second, we have 0 evidence for God. The logic "I think, therefore He is" is not a valid argument for God. Existence does not prove any such deity.

      Watch this video and ask yourself, which designer made these patterns?

      http://www.wimp.com/risingtone/

      June 18, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • Vic

      I am in awe of God Almighty, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus Christ.

      I am servile to God.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • There is more evidence of

      Christian wind-up toys posting on the internet than there is for the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit!

      June 18, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • Daniel

      You are not servile, just vile. Vomit your religion again please, as gross as it is it's hard not to watch...

      June 18, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Brother Maynard

      "If God were to show Himself or anyone to have a direct proof of Him, there can be no test ..."
      WRONG !!
      I ask only the direct proof that was requested and granted Thomas. John 20:24-29.
      “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
      ... still waiting

      June 18, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • sam stone

      Gosh, vic, must not take much to awe you

      June 18, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • Vic

      @Brother Maynard "....."

      doubting Thomas was not asking for proof of God, he was asking for proof of what was revealed in the human realm that it IS indeed the First Fruits of Resurrection Jesus Christ our Lord & Savior in the flesh for the redemption of humankind!!!

      June 18, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Len

      Vic
      Nothing in science is accepted as correct until proven otherwise. Besides, you can just as easily apply that to any god, so what does your god's present popularity have any bearing on what's true?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Brother Maynard

      "doubting Thomas was not asking for proof of God, he was asking for proof of what was revealed in the human realm that it IS indeed the First Fruits of Resurrection Jesus Christ our Lord & Savior in the flesh for the redemption of humankind!!!"
      Sounds to me like you are splitting hairs here.
      But I'll play along.
      Please give direct evidence of "First Fruits of Resurrection Jesus Christ our Lord & Savior in the flesh for the redemption of humankind!!!"
      ... still waiting

      June 18, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • John Stemberger

      Vic is just another mentally ill person

      June 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
  12. Len

    How's this for a Christian-themed movie?

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oaS_N1zsqo&w=640&h=390]

    June 18, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I saw this trailer a couple of weeks ago... it's hilarious. Especially, when her mom cuts in line at the pearly gates during the rapture and god sent her back to earth. LOL

      June 18, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Very funny. The bible provides lots of stories perfect for this sort of farcical entertainment.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Len

      What's really funny is the fact that the vast majority of Christians worldwide find this whole Rapture stuff laughable, as well.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:18 am |
  13. faith

    speaking of bone, i cud sleep better if i cud find my midget of steel. these batteries will probably go dead b4 i find him..

    June 18, 2013 at 9:25 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Maybe if you stopped chewing on your cud you'd be able to think rationally.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:07 am |
    • Waiting..

      for faith to look up "cud."

      June 18, 2013 at 10:14 am |
  14. faith

    what man of Steel !!! Jesus was a man of flesh and bone, if he ever roamed the Earth.

    June 18, 2013 at 8:52 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I thought only females were made of bone and males are made of dust and clay...

      June 18, 2013 at 8:56 am |
    • Len

      Doc Vestibule
      Wonder Woman was made of clay and, for a time, she was elevated to being the goddess of Truth in the Olympian pantheon. Imagine, a god that protects Truth! What a novel concept, eh?

      June 18, 2013 at 10:02 am |
  15. kamamer

    Yeah, Zach Synder is now a great christian filmmaker! Sucker Punch, Watchmen, 300, and Dawn of the Dead had me so confused. Yes, Christians, investigate his Christian oeuvre.

    June 18, 2013 at 8:51 am |
    • Len

      Isn't the Rapture supposed to start off like Dawn of the Dead?

      June 18, 2013 at 10:04 am |
  16. Rodents for Romney

    Well, if the Super-Jebus dude can't get the job done, I suppose ya need an alternative.

    June 18, 2013 at 8:48 am |
  17. Agnostickids

    Wow, it's amazing how many mentally ill people are on these Opinion, "Belief" boards. I guess that speaks for itself. Only the crazy's are attracted to organized religion. Yuck.

    June 18, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Science

      Money/marketing..............follow it..............the circle..............CNN, WB is owned by Time Warner.

      June 18, 2013 at 8:54 am |
    • lol??

      Siberia and makin' refugees is always on a socie's mind. Gotta take care of the deficient. Ovens maybe, too??

      June 18, 2013 at 8:55 am |
    • Maksim

      What's a socie? I've never seen this word.

      June 18, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • The real Tom

      That's because it isn't a word. The moron just makes shit up.

      June 18, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • Robert

      According to studies, atheists are far more prone to mental illness, committing suicide, and are less charitable than theists.

      Yeah, there are a lot of people who seem to be mentally ill doing a lot of bigoted posting, but it is not theists who are doing it.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Really?

      "According to studies, atheists are far more prone to mental illness, committing suicide, and are less charitable than theists."

      Actually CNN just did a piece that showed those that are spiritual but not super religious are far more mentally ill. There's a 2010 pew study that shows that atheists live far more healthier and happier lives than conservative Christians.

      But of course we know from these boards that Christians love to lie for their god.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • The real Tom

      Robert, dear, there is a study that shows that males named Robert are frequently poorly educated and make lousy parents.

      Cite your source, idiot, or you're a liar.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Robert is posting ignorant nonsense. But then again, he believes.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Waiting..

      for Robert to cite peer reviewed studies that back up his claims.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • Waiting..

      still. Where are those studies, Robert?

      June 18, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • Calling all hypocrites

      "Yeah, there are a lot of people who seem to be mentally ill doing a lot of bigoted posting, but it is not theists who are doing it."

      Explain faith and lol??. Two of the biggest racist bigots here on BB. Explain Salero21. Explain Douglas. Yes, it is the theists doing it.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:08 am |
  18. faith

    nitie nite girls

    wake me when u find a quark of evidence

    a string will do

    lol

    jesus is god

    June 18, 2013 at 8:36 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Jesus and god are both figments of the christards imagination-Prove me wrong you crazy loon!

      June 18, 2013 at 8:43 am |
    • lol??

      TP,

      "Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

      That's enuff fer the average dust ball, unless of course you are a "special" dust ball, err agent. Maybe you don't know this but if you already do, take a hike.

      June 18, 2013 at 8:52 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      lollygag: You may be weak enough to require that book but I am not. Those words mean nothing in reality.

      June 18, 2013 at 9:01 am |
    • The real Tom

      loopy lolly, if you're an example of what belief does for someone, I'll take a pass. You're as stupid as they come.

      June 18, 2013 at 9:36 am |
    • Snopes.com

      Claim: "lol??" is as stupid as they come.

      – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

      :mrgreen:        true

      June 18, 2013 at 9:41 am |
  19. Doc Vestibule

    There is amble scientific evidence for the existence of Superman.
    Scientists have known of the existence of krypton since the late 1800s.
    Traces of the inert, noble gas can be found in our atmosphere, an obvious result of Kal El's spacecraft whizzing through ionosphere when it crashed.
    World governments have been stockpiling Krypton in vast quanti/ties to prepare for the day, Zod save us, when Superman may turn against humanity. There are 27 tons of the stuff in liquid form held at the CERN labs in Geneva.
    If Superman weren't real, why would such a stockpile exist?

    There have been many recent sightings of a red and blue UFO in the skies all over North America.
    2009 in Winnipeg, Canada, 2011 in Ohio, USA, 2012 in Utah, USA
    Though some at first attribute the strange, airborne mass to avian or aeronautic sources it becomes clear upon examination of video evidence and eye-witness testimony that I could neither have been a bird, nor a plane.

    If you open your heart to the truth of Superman, the evidence for his existence becomes undeniable.
    Ask Superman into your life. With his super-hearing, he is aware of every entreaty and answers them all – though perhaps not in the way one expects.
    Look, if I'm wrong then I've lost nothing by muttering to Superman each night before bed, but if I'm right I will have the most powerful man in the solar system watching my back when Doomsday comes.

    June 18, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • Lois Lane (LET)

      ooohh... those tights don't leave much to the imagination do they? Buns of Steel?

      June 18, 2013 at 9:34 am |
    • 1940's Superman Narrator (LET)

      Faster than a speeding bullet... able to leap buildings in a single bound... able to wreck any mortal woman with his mighty super schlong...LOOK! Up in the Sky! It's a bird! It's a Plane! No! It's Superman!

      June 18, 2013 at 9:39 am |
    • I AM

      I was hoping some day there would be solid proof. Thanks, now I know the truth.

      June 18, 2013 at 10:01 am |
    • Len

      Doc
      Don't you think that you have to whisper for protection against Darkseid more than Doomsday?

      June 18, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Peace

      It never ceases to amaze me how cruel and utterly tasteless some of the comments on here. The real Tom has got to be the angriest, and heartless person ( if you could call he/she a person ) I have ever come across. But then again a lot of people are tougher than new rope when they hide behind the internet. Right Tom? I hope you don't kiss you're kids, grandkids, or anyone else with that foul mouth. And by the way please forgive all of us for not being as smart as you are, you are a legend in your on mind.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Len
      Darkseid is surely bad news, but Doomsday is the only one who has ever killed Superman. Plus, those boney, spikey things on his body are way scarier than Darkseid's costume.

      @Peace
      Where is Tom in this thread?
      Where is there even the slightest hint of profanity?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Len

      Doc
      But Darkseid has Granny Goodness on his side, and she's scarier than most nuns I had for teachers.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Calling all hypocrites

      Where is you outrage for faith, the biggest, angriest racist for Jesus ever born? Makes Archie Bunker look like a pussycat.
      Some people don't suffer fools gladly. Tom doesn't. If you do, good for you. I hope you don't have children at all. Your roll over and play dead attitude is not indicative of a strong-minded person.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      You call yourself peace and then say things like that?

      June 18, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • sam

      @Peace- you can fill out CNN's Butthurt Report on the main page.

      June 18, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • mas enots

      @ Sam
      I see Peace has a point. Check out the replies to his post. I think he/she has struck a nerve with some of you.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • sam

      @mas – yeah, it always wins brownie points when someone comes in here solely to chastise people without adding anything to the discussion. That's always a big hit.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • mas enots

      @ Sam
      What more could anyone add? Seems like anytime someone posts something they are torn to shreds for even having a thought. I think that it was a casual observation, and if you go back a few pages on this blog or start from the beginning you would see what they posted is not far from the truth. Everyone has they're own opinion and should not be called names unless of course they start the name calling. I am quite sure that within seconds of posting this the sharks will come and tear me to shreds. And btw I am not defending Atheism nor Christianity.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
  20. BU2B

    So they are comparing one fictional story to another.

    June 18, 2013 at 8:20 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.