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June 14th, 2013
04:05 PM ET

Superman: Flying to a church near you

By Eric Marrapodi, Co-Editor CNN Belief Blog

Baltimore, Maryland (CNN) - As the new Superman movie takes flight this weekend, filmmakers are hoping the Man of Steel lands not only in theaters, but also in pulpits.

Warner Bros. Studios is aggressively marketing "Man of Steel" to Christian pastors, inviting them to early screenings, creating Father’s Day discussion guides and producing special film trailers that focus on the faith-friendly angles of the movie.

The movie studio even asked a theologian to provide sermon notes for pastors who want to preach about Superman on Sunday. Titled “Jesus: The Original Superhero,” the notes run nine pages.

“How might the story of Superman awaken our passion for the greatest hero who ever lived and died and rose again?” the sermon notes ask.

(Disclaimer: CNN, like Warner Bros., is owned by Time Warner.)

Similar campaigns to corral the country's large number of Christians into the movie theater have been used for "Les Miserables," "Soul Surfer" and "The Blind Side," all of which had at least some faith angle.

Baltimore pastor Quentin Scott is among dozens of ministers who received an e-mail invitation from Grace Hill Media, a Hollywood-based Christian marketing firm, to an early screening of “Man of Steel.”

“There was an actual push to say `We’re putting out something that speaks to your group,' ” said Scott, one of the pastors of Shiloh Christian Community Church in Baltimore.

At first, Scott said, he didn’t buy the religious pitch. Then he decided to attend a free midweek screening in Baltimore.

“When I sat and listened to the movie I actually saw it was the story of Christ, and the love of God was weaved into the story," said the pastor.

"It was something I was very excited about that with the consultation of our senior pastor, we could use in our congregation.”

CNN Entertainment: 'Man of Steel' director Zack Snyder on Superman's Christ-like parallels

Grace Hill’s sermon notes are specially designed for churches like Shiloh that integrate multimedia into their services.

“Let’s take a look at the trailer for `Man of Steel,’” the notes suggest after briefly introducing the movie’s history and themes.

The man behind the notes, Pepperdine University professor Craig Detweiler, has prepared similar material for films like 2009’s "The Blind Side" and "The Book of Eli" from 2010.

The spiritual themes in “Man of Steel” are abundant, Detweiler said, and his notes enable Christians to thoughtfully engage with pop culture instead of shunning it.

“All too often, religious communities have been defined by what they're against. With a movie like `Man of Steel,’ this is a chance to celebrate a movie that affirms faith, sacrifice and service,” Detweiler said.

It will be hard for even casual Christians to miss the messianic metaphors in "Man of Steel.”

The movie focuses on the origins of Superman, who was sent from the planet Krypton as an infant to save his species.

He is raised by surrogate parents who help him grapple with his special powers, even though they don’t fully understand the source of his extraordinary abilities.

When he turns 33, Superman must willingly sacrifice himself to save the human race.

Sound familiar?

If that’s not enough, as a boy Clark Kent is shown wrestling with his superpowers, and asks his earthly dad, Jonathan Kent, “Did God do this to me?”

“Somewhere out there you have another father and he sent you here for a reason,” says Jonathan Kent.

Even the visuals hammer home the messianic motifs.

During a fight with his archenemy, General Zod, Superman plunges down to Earth, his arms outstretched as if he were being crucified. Of course, he rises again.

Detweiler writes in the sermon notes, “What Jesus and Superman both give us, through their `hero’ actions but also their `human’ actions – is hope.”

“I think it’s a very good thing that Hollywood is paying attention to the Christian marketplace,” said Ted Baehr, who runs Movieguide, a website that reviews family friendly films from a Christian perspective.

“Where it gets sticky is when they try to manipulate the market and when Christians try to manipulate Hollywood. But here I think we have the right balance.”

But other Christians are heaving a supersized sigh at the movie marketing.

"Any pastor who thinks using `Man of Steel Ministry Resources' is a good Sunday morning strategy must have no concept of how high the stakes are, or very little confidence in the power of God’s word and God’s spirit," writes P.J. Wenzel, a deacon and Sunday School teacher at Dublin Baptist Church in Ohio.

"As they entertain their congregants with material pumped out from Hollywood’s sewers, lives are kept in bondage, and people’s souls are neglected," according to Wenzel, who said he was e-mailed information about the movie.

Scott, the Baltimore pastor, said he knows that Warner Bros. Studios has a financial incentive in pushing the film to pastors.

But he said that’s fine with him. “They’re using us but in fact we’re using them,” he said.

His church won't show clips from the movie this weekend because it had already planned out its service. But he plans to use them later, during meetings with the church’s men’s group.

“If you give me another opportunity to talk to someone about Jesus Christ, and I can do that because of your movie, that’s a win for me, because it is about spreading the Gospel.”

CNN's Erin McPike contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Celebrity • Christianity • Church • Entertainment • Media • Movies

soundoff (6,545 Responses)
  1. Robert

    Atheists are such angry people. Raging every time the word "God" or "Jesus" is spoken. It must be such a sad life to be constantly in rage mode.

    June 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • tony

      Say such names and stories to any adult mind you like. But groom children, and you are a child abuser, and you know it.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • sam stone

      Theists are such pompous people, purporting to speak for god. It must be such a sad life feeling you were born with god angry at you.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • So

      you're a blind person and you have your computer set up to speak what others write?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Cyle

      We are raging at the constant stupidity of perpetuating a 1600 year old book of mythology as something real. We are raging at all the harm that's being done in the name of a magical sky fairy. We are raging at the dumbing down of science and the retention of antiquated moral dogma from a book that advocates slavery and genocide.

      We just cannot suffer the idiocy any longer.

      Aside from that, we're a buch of happy folk.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Thoth

      I'm an atheist. I've worked hard to achieve. I have a wonderful family. I am happy.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • WASP

      @robert: who said we're angry? annoyed with seeing jesus freaks on every corner on the way home from work, sure; but angry nah. you folks are only here for ou entertainment when we are bored at work, that's it.
      as long as your ilk stop tryingt o turn our secular country into another iran, we have no reason to truly mess with you. XD
      well enjoy your make believe world and leave this one to those of us with only one life to live; seeing you have an "after-life" why should you care about this one, correct? it's not like not like your "nanny-god" won't clean it up before he brings you back here, correct? XD

      June 18, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      That's funny. A Christian just told me yesterday that I seemed happy.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • meifumado

      You have it all wrong.
      It's the religious who are a hateful bunch to those that do not agree with your beliefs.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Look Up

      Yes, quite sad. No love, no life, definitely no everlasting life.

      Sad, sad, sad...

      Could be worse, if they're all went away. Then, no one to save.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Pete

      Its people like Robert who turn others off of religion. You must be pretty insecure in your beliefs to think that everyone who doesn't believe the same things you do are angry and have no life. Most likely that is just a case of projection.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      Robert sez:
      "Atheists are such angry people. ... "
      Well I know one way to make THIS atheist totally happy, Robert
      Prove to me Santa Claus does NOT exist.
      That would be a great start.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • fintastic

      Yes, quite sad, believing in an imaginary sky daddy who will have you burn in an imaginary heII if you don't obey his imaginary commands.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      DOC SMASH PUNY GODS!
      Why evangelists not leave Doc alone!?!

      June 18, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Pete, excuses, excuses or should I write denial, denial?. You stopped learning about Jesus after you no longer were bottle fed. Too lazy to continue your search for His truth.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • fintastic

      Oh stenchy.... lying again?..... how many time must you be told? truth requires evidence.... you have none... let go of your imaginary jeebus security blanket.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
  2. Mr. Obvious

    @Cpt.Obvious
    Seems you know a little to much about butthurt forms.

    June 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Mr. Obtuse

      Well the rest of society has gotten over themselves in the last few decades so Christians seem to be the only one's filing these forms anymore...

      June 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
  3. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    Jesus is nothing more than a figure molded in a mud clay of son of blessed Harry to justify Jesus Mithra ism, pagan savior ism of Superman secular s, crook self centered to hit from behind, fool humanity, or CNN people, nothing more.

    June 18, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Harry?

      Harry Stylinson?
      Harry Potter?
      Hairy Sun?
      Prince Harry?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
  4. Doc Vestibule

    "If you want to deny evolution and live in your world – in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe – that's fine. But don't make your kids do it, because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future."
    – Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

    June 18, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Nick

      How many scientific decisions do you make on a daily basis that are predicated upon your assumptions that evolution is a fact?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Why would it matter "how many," Nick?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      That's not a good quote to use Doc. There are to many words that christians don't understand... (evolution, inconsistent, universe scientifically and literate) the only word in that quote they understand is "deny"...

      June 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Thomas K.

      A single decision based on "young earth theory" is too many.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Nick............do you know what native iron is ?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Nick

      That's what we thought, none, nada, zilch, zero!
      Your presumptions are as good as mine, check your feeling of 'illusion of control' around evolution, already!

      June 18, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Science

      nada faithy

      June 18, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • meifumado

      Poor deluded Nick.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Nick

      Evolution is not an as.sumption. Get it right to begin with.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Who's your daddy now?

      @ Doc Vestibule,

      "Scientific" literacies change at a moment's notice. Christian religious literacies have changed little since its inception.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Unbelievers don't want to be accountable to God so they make up fairy tales, one being evolution that has too many flaws to take seriously. Proof that unbelievers are in d'nile. LOL

      June 18, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • sam stone

      Believers don't want to be accountable to God so they cower behind fairy tale of the the holy scapegoat, Jeebus

      June 18, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      HS, What flaws in evolution?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • Who's your daddy now?

      @ sam stone, "accountable"? and to God but not Christ Jesus?

      Are you saying that accountability to God but not Jesus is holier than thou?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Nick
      The principles of evolutionary biology are applied on a daily basis by countless people in disparate fields.
      Without a firm understanding of evolution, modern agriculture would be impossible.
      Pharmaceutical biochemistry would be non-existent, reducing our overall health and life expectancy.

      Corporations apply genetic principles to management.
      1.Ideas are similar to genes in that they can be spontaneously generated (mutated).
      2.Ideas migrate into or out of an organization or move within the organization.
      3.Application of ideas is analogous to the expression of genes. Decision-makers select ideas for application much as nature and man allow organisms to reproduce based on their genetic composition.
      4.Inbreeding occurs when interaction with the outside world is limited.)

      Computer programmers use a principle called "Evolutionary Computing / Genetic Algorithms". This engineering technique is routinely used in aerospace engineering, architecture, astrophysics, data mining, drug discovery and design, electrical engineering, finance, geophysics, materials engineering, military strategy, pattern recognition, robotics, scheduling, systems engineering and a host of other fields.

      Darwin's 5 laws are confirmed and used in practical applications every single day by people all over the world.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Are you saying that accountability to God but not Jesus is holier than thou?"

      No, I am saying that allowing someone else to take the punishment you deserve is immoral and cowardly

      June 18, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • sam stone

      In fact, that is why folks like Gopher flock to it, as they are immoral and cowardly

      June 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Who's your daddy
      That scientific theories are open to amendment (or outright rejection) based on new data is not a weakness – rather it is a cornerstone of the scientific method! Scientists send all of their rigorously doc/umented experiments and conclusion out to the world at large so that the ideas and methodology can be scritinized for error.
      That is a good thing.

      Rigid adherence to dogma results in stagnation.
      It wasn't long ago that espousing heliocentrism would have garnered you a visit from your friendly neighborhood Inquisitor.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Will you cook my dinner for me? My parents aren't around and I'm not allowed to turn on the stove.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Roger

      Nick strikes me as the kind of kid who gave up his favorite blanky and imaginary friend just in time to fall under the influence of Pastor Nieddollar.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Who's your daddy now?

      @ sam stone,

      All are guilty of sins committed against their own conscience. What better than one being born out of and from Godliness to become all sinners' saving graces? One does need a way to alleviate one's memories of ill wills done. What better than a race of super beings, Gods if you wish, to give to a person the means to be forgiven their ill willed past?

      June 18, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Who's your daddy now?

      @ Doc Vestibule,

      I believe in Evolution. I believe in Godliness values. I believe in life after death onto infinity.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
  5. The real Tom

    I just love it when the self-proclaimed 'biblical scholars" here screw up word after word (Look Up is a particularly spectacular example), and try to lie about their errors being "typos." It's hilarious.

    So far, Look Up has posted "whimp," "phone's" (as the plural for phone), and "genny" for "genie."

    Why are you all so ignorant? Why do you lie?

    June 18, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • trollin wiith trolls

      it must be really sad to be you.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Thomas K.

      I believe they may be the same poster because "it" makes the same mistakes under multiple names. lol??, faith, ISLAM, Look Up, all of them make similar spelling and grammar errors.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Look Up

      Tom, there you are. Can trust a person who splits and starts bashing others in new string.

      Gee you have to fight fair.

      Play nice or your mommy won't let you play with us nasty believers anymore.

      You make me laugh, LOL.

      Keep attacking... Your near the top of the believers bashing club record.

      We haven't worn you out. You must have more hate posting to attack us with or are you running out of steam? Ask your DADDY, Satan for some help. He can stoke your fire so easily. His furnace is hot and ready. Dig deep in your lifeless soul and slam us one more time. Then, go away. We grow tired of you.

      Bye, bye. ; )

      June 18, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Look Up

      Tommy

      I purposely made some typos for you to find them.

      Hint- your vs you're.

      Have some more fun.

      ; )

      June 18, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • WASP

      @look up...........fall down: tired? i don't know about tom, but if you can disprove that energy created the entire universe without the need for a creator i have a prize for you.
      until you decide to step out of your little fantasy, magic ruled make believe world atheists will continue to laugh at you.
      seriously what type of adult requires a reward/punishment system to be good? educate yourself,, it helps with the delusions of "your god's chosen.............stepping stool." XD

      June 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Mr. Obvious

      It must be hell living with you. Since you know it all. I would bet that you have NEVER made a mistake.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Mr. Obvious

      Quick Tom, go get on Thomas K he spelled a word wrong. Man, I can't wait to see how you degrade him. Oh wait, he's an Athietard. Darn. I forgot you only bash Christians.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
  6. Ed Goldfluss

    No matter how Warner Bros. attempts to market this movie I find it hard to believe that two Jewish kids from Ohio wrote this story about a Messiah they didn't believe in.

    June 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      You seem to have skipped a step. Give it another shot.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
  7. Thomas K.

    I might see this movie someday when it's being replayed for the 100th time on TNT, but all this Christ publicity stunt stuff convinced me not to spend my money at the theatre for this film. Hopefully many like minded persons will boycott this kind of religious marketing so they will keep their religion where it belongs, in their Churches where I can simply avoid going if I don't want to hear about it.

    June 18, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Heh

      Lots of Christians are boycotting it too... because they are insulted with the comparison of their "Jesus" with Superman.

      Looks like Warner Bros. shot themselves in the foot here.

      (p.s. lots of movies are promoted this way to the Chri$tian market - it just doesn't get blabbed about publicly so much)

      June 18, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      It was a good movie...there is one scene where he steps out of a ship and he is holding his arms out like jesus. It was a great mockery of the delusion jew called christ. There was another scene where he is int he church asking advice from a preacher...clearly he walked out frustrated because the delusional preacher was of no help.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Clearly Superman replaces the belief in jesus. This is a good thing.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Look Up

      @Tom 2nd

      Over $125m opening weekend in north America. Guess your "like kind " didn't get the memo.

      Highest grossing opening weekend in June – Ever!

      Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

      Hollywood doesn't need your money, but, you give it to them anyway. In many other forms. Like buying the products advertised in the film you did go see.

      Guess Hollywood wins, either way.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • sam stone

      Superman nailed Lois Lane, whereas Jeebus wandered the desert with 12 other guys. Don't ask, don't tell.....

      June 18, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Look Up

      @Sammy

      You probably thought Broken Back Mountain was a religious film too. Gay bashing are you now. I am shocked and disappointed in you. Sam, you are a better atheists than that. Don't lower yourself to compare gays with JESUS and his disciples. You forgot, everywhere they went, thousands showed up to either get free food or doctor's care ( healing). The rest who hated them, crucified HIM. Of course you missed that movie too, "Passion of the CHRIST ".

      June 18, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Of course you missed that movie too, "Passion of the CHRIST "."

      The snuff film?

      June 18, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
  8. Look Up

    Atheist Hotline – text you request or questions to 464864355

    Atheist don't believe phone's were created by man either. Aliens on a STAR TREK episode did. Phone home ET.

    4 = G
    6 = O
    4 = I
    6 = N
    4 = G

    8 = T
    6 = O

    4 = H
    3 = E
    5 = L
    5 = L

    June 18, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Anyone who's too stupid to figure out how to make a noun plural is too stupid to take seriously in any discussion.

      You aren't smart enough to interpret the bible, you putz.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Ed

      Please save those atheists from themselves!

      June 18, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Yes... because we've been waiting all along for some christard to come "save" us from your cult of dumbassness and rapier telephone number wit...

      June 18, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, anyone who refuses to grasp the concept of what is written is lost.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Look Up

      @Real Or fake Tom or Thomas, don't want to offend the spelling of your blog handle.

      So, now you know how it feels when some attacks your way of thinking.

      Spelling quiz

      ATHEISTS the plural of atheist

      Typos the plural of mistake in typing.

      Get a real life. Belief Blog for believers in something. Disagree get your own blog. Call it, everything atheists don't know about GOD.

      CNN welcomes you with open arms. So will MSNBC, CBS, ABC and CURRENT TV.

      It's always a joy to stand up against you.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Nope. I'll post here all I wish. Don't like what I write, bite me. And you missed the bigger gaff in your post, moron. See if you can figure out what it was. Get HeavenSent to assist you.

      I love that you think you've posted anything that "stands up" against reason and fact. You're a delusional wimp (not whimp).

      June 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • WASP

      @HS: 1 TIMOTHY 2:11-15
      11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
      12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
      13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
      14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
      15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

      any female that fails to grasp her place is lost. XD
      don't you just love the bible. XD

      June 18, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Snopes.com

      Claim: "Look Up" is a putz.

      – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

      :mrgreen:        true

      June 18, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The real Tom, delusion belongs to the lost.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Lost? Nope, I have GPS.

      Who's taking care of your pets, HS? Or did you forget you had any?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • Look Up

      @Tommy San

      You make me laugh. Ha.
      LOL

      @ WASPY san

      Then you must really love John 3:16.

      Love these non believers quoting the Bible. That is like a sick person taking medicine. Eventually it will cure them. Keep quoting, you only promote your ignorance.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • WASP

      @look up: "Call it, everything atheists don't know about GOD. "

      then who would we mess with during our long boring hours making pockets full of money? XD
      1) most atheists started out theists
      2) we evaluated what we were being told and compared it to other mythologies and to known science to figureout that god is just another in a long line that have been created by humans.
      3) "i propose we are both atheists, i just believe in one less than you do." XD

      June 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • L.C. Leprechaun

      "Disagree get your own blog. Call it, everything atheists don't know about GOD."

      How about "Leprechauns: What Christians don't know about them."

      Do they all wear green suspenders or do some wear belts? Do they have to wear striped socks? Do they cry when their gold is taken away? Are they larger than a rabbit or smaller than a hampster? Can they ride up rainbows the same way they can ride down them?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      WASP, I love Jesus Christ's truth.

      And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

      Joel 2:28

      Amen.

      Besides WASP, I'm not preaching, I'm sharing His truth with the lost.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Wow, that was rather immature. How old are you-10?

      June 18, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      "I'm not preaching".....like the 10 year old who says, "I didn't steal the bike, I only borrowed it."

      June 18, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
  9. fred

    Richard Cranium
    No, Adam was the first modern man to live in the presence of God and experience existence in a perfect world. Adam was representative of the first man which broke away from Gods presence to live in the physical /spiritual form subject to natural laws.

    June 18, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Cow cookies.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Science

      Hey fred how is the hairy sun ?

      June 18, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Word modern is based on mod, function, subject to La, truth absolute. Yes, Adam lived by truth absolute, and he was perfect in his obedience to La, truth absolute GOD in life, but hindu Mitra ism , pagan savior ism called Christianity negates La, truth absolute by following hindu trinity, pagan divide of truth absolute between two men on earth. Shear violation of American Const tution and hinduism, denial of truth absolute GOD.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • NESTLE FOUNDATION OF OVALT INE

      So you're saying Adam lived in La La land it seems Islam bot.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Word law is hinduism, corruption of Latin word La, truth absolute 360*, get some education, knowledge, before spewing your hinduism, absurdities please.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Look Up

      @FRED

      Describe some natural laws, then spiritual laws. Many readers don't have a clue what you are referring to.

      Help open their eyes.

      Thanks.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      "Look Up": "Describe some natural laws, then spiritual laws. "

      Oh yes, try proving any objective bullshit.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Science

      LOOK backwards...........fred explain what.................come on fred where are you ?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • WASP

      @look up: "spiritual laws"
      be a doll and how about you tell us what they are. 🙂

      what i understand of "spiritual laws" ancient goatherders that understood almost nothing of science of the laws of nature would attribute everyday events to "spiritual beings" because they didn't know any better, and appearantly niether do you.
      also known as MAGIC LAWS. XD

      June 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      all atheists, hindus, denier of Lucifer, blessed Cherry read my posts, and come and debate religion, Islam ism, Mohammad ism, Qu'Ruan ism, Magi ism with me, I am champion of all ism

      June 18, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • NESTLE FOUNDATION OF OVALT INE

      Word meta is based on mod, function, subject to spooky, truth absolute, ergo,
      metaphysics = spooky physics

      June 18, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Interesting topic. I don't claim expertise but I'll take a stab:

      Spiritual law: "The wages of sin is death" or the secular version: "Crime doesn't pay"

      Natural law: "Man has the right to life, freedom and property"

      June 18, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Bill, neither of those examples seem like laws to me, and you did not explain what process one might use to correctly derive the appropriate adjective (spiritual or natural). A principle or moral is not a law, don't we agree, there? I mean.... "crime doesn't pay??" How is that a law?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Neither Fred nor Look Up have answered the question.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      Well – some of what Bill wrote is a way that Locke thought were unalienable natural rights that influenced Mason & Madison's VA Bill of Rights and ultimately the Constitution. But I wonder if any of that has anything to do with what fred was speaking of.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • fred

      Animals, trees and all of nature to not worship God whereas man has body and soul which since Neanderthal has looked up to the heavens in worship and awe.

      In nature a lion who kills all cubs not his in a pride is just doing what comes natural. God says thou shall not kill and so man has a higher standard based on the word of God.

      All created things have a linear time line while the spiritual is eternal.

      All created things are subject to the natural law while the spiritual are not.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      Yeah – I didn't think fred was talking about Locke and rights. But his beliefs do require objective truths. Of course there is not evidence for anything that is purely an objective truth. That is, regardless of whether one believes in God or not, humans can't escape that fact that they rely on different kinds of consensus to arrive at anything they think to be true – whether it's 1 + 1 = 2; God; or anything else.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I think by spiritual law I mean something that is not directly enforceable by government but nonetheless is true. Not a law as in legislation but law as in truth. How about this one : "You can't borrow your way out of debt"

      June 18, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      One might get an inside tip that someone who could potentially assume a debt will be more likely to forgive a portion of the debt if one sufficiently explains some hardship well. Maybe someone can get good at rolling such debts over and over until they disappear; lol.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Wow Helen, talk about blind faith lol.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      How about "wisdom is better than wealth and health better than either"

      June 18, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Gee, what's the definition of a law? lol

      June 18, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • fred

      Paul wrote to the Galatians (5:22-23) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

      Looking at this verse I would think he was right on.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
  10. lee

    “Jesus: The Original Superhero”

    The above slogan is inaccurate because Jesus isn't even close to the "original" superhero. There were thousands of gods and other mythic figures long before he allegedly lived. But the slogan IS accurate in that, like Superman and other Superheroes, Jesus, as depicted in the bible, is almost entirely fictional.

    June 18, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Jesus is nothing more than a figure molded on part life of son of blessed Mary to justify hindu Mithra ism, pagan savior ism of hindu secular s, crook self centered to hind, fool humanity.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • lee

      Forgive me if English isn't your first language, but what you wrote is word salad.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Luke 24:25-27 (Jesus Christ said)

      25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
      26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
      27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (KJV)

      Amen.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      I speak Pakhton, mix of Pakistani-Afghan dialogues, my Taliban father, skunk denier of truth absolute Thin Allah, seculra S, his hind hurts, follower of Mithra ism, filthy Magi, never allowed me to go to school, you understand me?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • NESTLE FOUNDATION OF OVALT INE

      Islam bot – why did your father deny skunks? I don't think that's all that unusual. Most people try not to get too close – they're not very fun when they get upset.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION ON QUICKSAND

      Shut up Mohammad ism, I met your mother ism, she said come again ism, we had nice time ism, now get lost ism

      June 18, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Learn to be honest, to be honest, Some hindu Pundit, crook trickster after hundreds of years after son of blessed Mary said, he said.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • lee

      Protip: Atheists don't care about quotes that anonymous men attributed to Jesus decades after he died.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The complete discussion between Jesus and them :

      Luke 24:12-27

      12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
      13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
      14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
      15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
      16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
      17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
      18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
      19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
      20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
      21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
      22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
      23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
      24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
      25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
      26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
      27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (KJV)

      Amen.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Heaven sent casting more spells. She thinks there is power in saying words.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • WASP

      @HS: 1 TIMOTHY 2:11-15
      11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
      12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
      13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
      14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
      15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety

      the complete portion of the bible you should know, yet seem to avoid. now stop disobeying your god he may get angry and punish you for all eternity. XD

      June 18, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Ernest T Bass

      @HeavenSent...........

      "When I grow up I'm going to Bovine University."

      Ralph Wiggum

      June 18, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Science

      Then only thing that might be eternal is the BS you POST on the blog Fred

      June 18, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Science

      Oops ......really messed up .the...........and for fred above

      June 18, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
  11. The real Tom

    Robert babbles:Peer review- folks with similar ideas to my own, agree with my conclusions.

    This post alone is enough to discredit you. You don't have the first clue what you're talking about, Robert. I have no time for your ignorance.

    June 18, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      Yeah – he's starting to sound as bad as JP Tarvball.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The real Tom, folks with similar ideas to your own, agree with your conclusions? LOL. Meaning you like to get your ego stroked. Proving Jesus correct as always, the sin of pride blinds the sinner.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • The real Tom

      HS, creeping senility is not your friend. You don't have a clue as to the subject of the post. Is someone coming in to take care of your pets? I wouldn't trust you to remember to feed them.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, mute point. Be silent, be still. Allow the Holy Spirit into your life.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • fintastic

      @Heavenstench......... Some of us learn as young children that there are no such things as ghosts......

      June 18, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
  12. HeavenSent

    This should work

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9e4UYViec&w=640&h=390]
    Victims of the fury

    June 18, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III

      Excellent choice, HS. Are you a recently born-again blues fanatic, HS?

      June 18, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      No, he was borne long time ago, but he refuses to grow up. typical of a follower of hindu Mithra ism, pagan savior ism, labeled as Christianity. savior ism.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • NESTLE FOUNDATION OF OVALT INE

      HAH, Islam. Let me know when you achieve the fame of Robin Trower. Ah – and I see Procol Harum is a 2013 R&R Hall of Fame nominee. Try that out sometime, Islam ism. This must be a fake HS – I can't imagine the real HS having this much rhythm; lol. ism.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • NESTLE FOUNDATION OF OVALT INE

      OK well they didn't get enough votes this time, but still quite a force in the R&B world.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Thanks Archibald Smythe-Pennington. Great music from great artist that Jesus created.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • meifumado

      His mom and dad were both named Jesus?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
  13. Science

    Hey Fred, RB, Vic, and all creationists this will help maybe >

    Teaching Complete Evolutionary Stories Increases Learning

    June 15, 2013 — Many students have difficulty understanding and explaining how evolution operates.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130615152417.htm

    June 18, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quFZD-E3lJw&w=640&h=390]
      For Earth Below

      Still Images from the Hubble Space Telescope and animated images mixed to For Earth Below by Robin Trower -–

      June 18, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Science

      no sole for earth below HS

      June 18, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      True, Science. "I Guess That's Why They Call It the Blues".

      June 18, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      An advice from acclaimed son of a Monkey, secularist, self centered by nature.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • NESTLE FOUNDATION OF OVALT INE

      The Monkees were poppish ism, Islam troll – maybe five or six chords. Still some catchy tunes. But R. Trower – well that's a whole other league.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Science, I thought you'd appreciate the photos. Not to forget that Trower was one of the greatest guitarists that graced the world.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Science

      No HS you wanted to get the sole in there which is on the bottom of shoe

      Just cut 3rd chondrite out of 4...........many chondrules in this one

      http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/meteorite/explore_meteorites_chondrites.asp

      June 18, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
  14. Reality

    Only for the those interested in a religious update:
    1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

    “New Torah For Modern Minds

    Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
    prob•a•bly
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

    2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

    Current problems:
    Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

    3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

    This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, the Filipino “koranics”and the Boston Marthon bombers.

    And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

    Current crises:

    The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

    4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

    The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

    Current problems:

    The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.

    5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

    "However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

    Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

    Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

    Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

    June 18, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Maksim

      You are the only atheist that does not use cuss words

      June 18, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      That's a pretty sweeping and unsubstantiated statement, Max.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Maksim

      You are the only atheist here that is not impassioned by any religion

      June 18, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • Maksim

      I did not write the post of 12:36. I do not know what the word cuss even is. What is the meaning of it?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Maksim, I'm not sure if you're trolling as this the second post of yours I've seen asking for explanations of words, but basically it means to say bad words.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Maksim

      In short you are the only atheist here the rest are pseudo

      June 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Maksim

      Or post of 12:46. It is not up to me to make judgement on belief. I also use proper puntucation. This is an imposter.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Maksim

      English is not my first language. I find it helpful to read blogs. There is someone imitating me. I did not write 12:51 post. This is common?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Maksim

      I did not write 12:51 post about atheist. I will read and not ask questions. People not helpful here.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      @ Maksim

      Sometimes handles are stolen. It's irritating and lacks integrity. People can usually tell the difference between the two.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Maksim

      Secular Humanist, thank you. That is silly for people to do.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      @Maksim

      You're welcome. Yes, it is silly and disingenuous.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Maksim

      Pseudo atheists are whiny and nettlesome
      Reality continues to represent the true atheist

      June 18, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9e4UYViec&w=640&h=390]
      Victims Of The Fury – London 1980 another great by Robin Trower

      June 18, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • Maks

      I did not write 1:15. This person is a jerk.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      @Maks

      I knew it the minute I read it.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
  15. Reality

    Why would your god allow the following:

    Number of god's creations who died horrible deaths from the following diseases:

    1. 300,000,000 approx.
    Smallpox

    2. 200,000,000 ?
    Measles

    3. 100,000,000 approx.
    Black Death

    4. 80,000,000–250,000,000
    Malaria

    5. 50,000,000–100,000,000
    Spanish Flu

    6. 40,000,000–100,000,000
    Plague of Justinian

    7. 40,000,000–100,000,000
    Tuberculosis

    8. 30,000,000[13]
    AIDS pandemic

    9. 12,000,000 ?
    Third Pandemic of Bubonic Plague

    10. 5,000,000
    Antonine Plague

    11. 4,000,000
    Asian Flu

    12. 250,000 or more annually Seasonal influenza

    June 18, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Roger that

      That's the extraordinarily fascinating and mysterious side of God.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • joseph

      You don't get it.
      Our time here is nothing compared to etermity.
      Why let a little suffering here stop you from enjoying bliss for ever?
      This life is just a test. No amount of suffering here will matter once you reach the afterlife.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      What kind of di s gusting d!ck of a god makes people suffer for an entire lifetime when it's not going to matter? azzhole!

      June 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Joseph
      What afterlife? You have no reason to believe that there is one. There is no evidence that there is one. To HOPE for an afterlife is one thing, to believe it without a reason to believe it is just plain illogical.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • joseph

      @ Capt Obvious
      You need a new name, as you clearly can't see what is obvious to others.
      What kind of a whimp are you, BTW. Whinig about a little pain like a little girl!

      This life only lasts for decades, 100 years is more than most people get. Heaven will last forever. Ins't it OBVIOUS that a little suffering here will pale in comparison to not just a few gazillion years of peace, but an eternity of bliss?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Joseph

      Go get some education and stop posting your ignorant babble.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      joseph: Grow up! Fairy tales like the one called the buybull are only for gullible fools and children. There is no evidence to support anything after this life. Stop wasting your life for something that can never be shown to exist.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • BU2B

      Joseph, what is obvious is that the suffering is real, the "afterlife" is not.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • joseph

      @BU2B
      If there is no afterlife, then you probable don't think there is a God either.
      Wouldn't that make the entire argurment of blaming Him for all the suffering pointless?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • Hobo Joe

      Joseph, Yep, obvious:

      In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
      There's a land that's fair and bright
      Where the handouts grow on bushes
      And you sleep out ev'ry night
      Where the boxcars are all empty
      And the sun shines ev'ry day
      Oh, I'm bound to go where there ain't no snow
      Where the rain don't fall and the wind don't blow
      In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.

      Oh, the buzzin' of the bees in the peppermint trees
      'Round the soda water fountains
      Where the lemonade springs and the bluebird sings
      In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

      In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
      You never change your socks
      And little streams of lemonade
      Come a-tricklin' down the rocks
      The hobos there are friendly
      And their fires all burn bright
      There's a lake of stew ...and soda, too
      You can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe
      In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.

      Oh, the buzzin' of the bees in the peppermint trees
      'Round the soda water fountains
      Where the lemonade springs and the bluebird sings
      In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

      June 18, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Sorry, Joseph, I just consider a lifetime of pain to be relevant in many ways; you and your god disagree. I don't find that surprising from one whose brain is so drastically damaged due to a nasty thought virus. The Christian philosophy you enjoy has made you oblivious to an individual's lifetime of suffering, and I cannot call you nor your belief "good" in any sense of the word.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • joseph

      It would be like a doctor performing surgery. Of course it causes suffering short term, but what could the long term benefits be?

      I do enjoy getting insulted when you athiests can't admit I have a point.
      I think there have been many times on this blog where athiests have accused Christians of running away when they lose an arguement. They also call the Christians hypocrits. Looks like the shoe is on the other foot!

      June 18, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      joseph: No-one really blames your imaginary friend for the suffering. we simply point out that if your imaginary friend is so loving and real, as you claim, why would it allow such suffering...it doesn't make your imaginary friend (aka god) so appealing. When bad happens you tend to blame your imaginary friends arch enemy (aka satan) for everything. We simply see no reason to accept that either exist and would hop that reality might set in and you would also see that the god you believe in is a very vindictive ass and really does not deserve worship. Read your buybull thoroughly, it is the greatest path to disbelief.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I guess since some people suffer more than others, some people were just born really, really bad.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • joseph

      @Truth Prevails

      Work with me here – Would you let a nurse put antiseptic on an open wound? Even if you knew it was going to sting?
      The original post claimed that there is no God because people die from diseases on this earth. I'm saying that the amount of suffering you are using as proof is truely insignificant, and not good proof.
      No one has offered a counter point, just insults.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • The real Tom

      You're the one who doesn't get it, joseph. There's no evidence that your god or heaven exist.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • WASP

      @joseph: you're wanting a counter point to the "god" myth? that's very simple and even the most science ignorant of the human species can find this kowledge. (no calling someone ignorant isn't a insult it's a lack of knowledge.)

      -everything in the universe is created by energy.
      -energy can not be created nor destroyed; thus it remains constant.
      -all interactions between atoms etc etc etc are controlled by the energy that builds them; i.e. no matter how hard you try you can't push two like charges but so far together, atomic forces prevent your body from ever truly coming into contact with anything else due to this same force.
      -seeing energy is "beginning and end" of everything, then there isn't an after life
      -no "god" required for the forces of the universe to follow the laws set up by everything trying to achieve balance.

      any futher questions just ask.

      June 18, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Joseph, there is zero proof in any afterlife, and if there is one, it might be anything because there's zero proof of any gods anywhere. Because of you think it's appropriate to seriously believe what's in your imagination, you're ok with people living their entire lives in pain and you're willing to call it "good" because you put so much trust in your own imagination. I find that di.s.gusting.

      If you think you made a point somewhere, how bout tell us what it was. Just write it simply and plainly. I evaluate claims based on their merit; I won't dismiss your just because you believe evil is good/god and that a lifetime of suffering is great/fantastic. What's your main point?

      June 18, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • Pete

      Since god is described in the bible as all powerful and all loving pointing out that bad things happen does disprove the god of the bible. Unless you think that an all loving god would send hurricanes and earthquakes to kill people out of pure love, and since he doesn't stop them is isn't all powerful either.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Joseph, for some reason you don't seem to be comprehending what you read. The OP asks a question about why your god allows certain suffering to occur. You have answered that question. You say that god allows suffering because it's irrelevant when other factors (in your imagination) are considered.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • WASP

      @pete: ". Unless you think that an all loving god would send hurricanes and earthquakes to kill people out of pure love,"

      well he did flatten sodom and gromora; flood the entire planet, threaten to unleash total chaos and "cleanse" the world by fire. let's not forget poor jobe, he allowed the devil to inflict horrible suffering upon him for no other reason than to win a bet with lucifer.
      that sounds very loving god to me.
      XD

      June 18, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • joseph

      Focus people, and try to stay on topic.
      The original post claimed that god does not exist because peopel die from diseases.
      I offered a counter arguement to that specific point.
      I do not claim to have any proof of an afterlife, I just think this is a poor agruement.
      I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just think this arguement is flawed.
      Pete attempted to offer a different point of view. Thank you Pete.
      No where does God promise a life without pain and suffering.
      Parents take their children to doctors for vacinations. This causes their children pain. Why would a loving parent intentionally hurt their child? Same arguement, smaller scale, same reasoning.
      If you want to use other things to disprove God, Fine. All I'm saying is this arguement is used a lot and it fails.
      Now please show how smart you all are and insult me some more or bring up other topics instead of debating the point.

      June 18, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • maximo

      on problem of pain

      see CS Lewis "Problem of Pain"
      also search for John Lennox on the same topic

      June 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Joseph, don't be an idiot. The original post does NOT make any arguments at all about god's existence or non existence. The opening post can't do that because it ONLY asks a simple question that you have already answered. Don't go by your feelings; look at the facts. Read. Read again. You can do this! 🙂

      June 18, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      The issue is one of perspective. The atheist errs when he uses the reality of suffering as an indiictment of God or evidence that God must not exist. So the initial premise is flawed to begin with. The reason he does so without self awareness of his flaw is because the underlying tenet of atheism is that this present existence is all there is. If that is true, then suffering can only be seen as a scourge on mankind and something to be eradiicated. If he is correct in his belief that this is all there is then he is also correct that suffering should be banished from all life in order to achieve justice and mercy in the world. Worthy goals, no doubt.

      His problem is that he begins with the assumption that the temporal is the total. If a life of suffering is all that many people can expect then it would be a cruel God indeed who would do nothing to relieve his poor pitiful creatures. This seems to make a good case for rejecting the notion of the "loving God" he has been told about and spurning that same God by reason of his neglect or cruelty, as evidenced by the world's suffering. Instead of God, the atheist presumes that man is the highest being and it through his efforts, his judgement and his government that social justice will come to all and all suffering can end. His only problem in accomplishing this is that everyone has different opinions on what is just. Hence politics enters the fray and war ensues, always in the name of justice, mind you and often invoking God's righteousness.

      The Christina, on the other hand, sees the world as temporary. If his suffering is just, it can't really be called suffering but if it is unjust, he views it as a chance to join his suffering with Christ. To pick up his cross and follow his master. To bear his burden with dignity. To this end, his suffering takes on purpose and the survival or triumph over it gives meaning to his travail. When he sees others suffering, he is moved by the presence of Christ within the other and seeks to minister to the other, just as Jesus was ministered to by some on the Via De La Rosa. In this way, the Christian acknowledges the innate sacred being of the other.

      Neither the twain shall meet. Because of his belief, the atheist will always castigate suffering and in some cases seek to ease it (or use it as a fallacious argument). Because of his faith, the Christian will always accept the existence of suffering and though he may seek to minister to it, he will always understand it has a holy nature.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • joseph

      @Capt Obvious
      it says, "Why would your god allow the following" and then offers data on things that have happened.

      That clearly implies that God isn't what he is claimed to be.
      It isn't my reading comprehension that is in question here.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      What the post implies (to you) is irrelevant, Joseph. The post simply asks a question which, if I remember correctly, you addressed in your first reply.

      That you are now discussing issues related to what you perceive to be one of the implications of the post does not mean that the post states something that it doesn't. The post asks a question that you answered. Your rabbit trails are your own making.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      According to Mother Teresa's bizarre philosophy, it is "the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ". Once she tried to comfort a screaming sufferer: "You are suffering, that means Jesus is kissing you!" The man got furious and screamed back: "Then tell your Jesus to stop kissing."

      June 18, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      @Bill Deacon

      Let me simplify the issue for you, Bill. There is no evidence, none, zip, zilch, nada of any afterlife; thus, if one exists, it might be anything at all, but since there's no evidence, there's nothing to even consider. This life is all we know of. Suffering for a lifetime is not trivial in this lifetime, which is the only lifetime we know to exist. If you want to minimize horrible and lifelong suffering because of a figment of your imagination that's up to you but it seems pretty fvcked up to most of us.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Secular; LOL you remind me of a story I heard about St Theresa of Avila. She was conversing with Jesus on e day who said to her. "My friends will all be crucified" To which she replied "Maybe that's why you don't have too many friends."

      Cpt. Yes, we've already established that Christianity looks foolish to the world. I think Paul told you that in the that ancient book of wisdom. Again, a matter of perspective. The only point I contend is that it doesn't look absurd to "most of us". Maybe only to most of the people you know.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Number of believers is no indication of accuracy. At one time it would have been absurd to believe that the earth revolved around the sun. Yes, it seems absurd to most people to believe in something with absolutely no proof or indication that the belief is accurate. Mind viruses are very powerful, and had the majority of people been brainwashed by society and their parents to believe in a completely different type of god and afterlife, the majority of people would live according to that mind virus and not the Christian mind virus.

      June 18, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Now that's funny. You use "most of us" to support your argument and then call logic fail argumentum populi (accurately I might add) when I point out that you don't have the majority. Truly a classic Cpt Obvious moment

      June 18, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • fintastic

      @joseph..........."If there is no afterlife, then you probable don't think there is a God either."

      BING! Correct! Joseph wins a prize!!!

      June 18, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Now that's funny,....no wait, it's exactly what we expect of Christians here: lying.

      Good lie, Bill.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Tell me then, did I make the case for atheism inaccurately?

      June 18, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Sorry, Bill, I just don't care. You could always lie some more?

      June 18, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Hey folks, did I make this straw man wide and tall enough? I mean, I'm going to knock it over in a minute, but will it look good when I blow on it to make it fall?

      June 18, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Yeah, good tactics. Join a thread and make nearly a dozen comments then say "I don't really care anyway" when you get your hat handed to you. Let me guess, you're either 14, an atheist or both.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

      Bill: "the underlying tenet of atheism is that this present existence is all there is."

      No, Bill. Mainstream atheists are highly agnostic and therefore do not rule out any possibilities, but do point out things, like the Abrahamic God, where there is not sufficient evidence to hold a belief in such a god. That's quite a bit different than claiming what is evident is "all there is".

      June 18, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I care about the topic of the thread; I do not care about certain participants because of their behavior.

      June 18, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
  16. faith

    absolute 0

    lol

    June 18, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
  17. faith

    if god wanted chickns to be boneless he would have made them that way

    June 18, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • Trace

      Yeah, and hamburgers are boneless. Why is that?
      You make no sense at all. What is your point?

      June 18, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • BONELESS CHICKEN

      HELP US FAITH

      TELL CONGRESS ABOUT US

      June 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
  18. faith

    seen that proof pilin on?

    me neither

    nothing

    June 18, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • wow

      u r right – there is like NO proof of God! thank again, faith

      June 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
  19. faith

    caesar didn't walk on water

    June 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      You do not know that. I have walked on water many times.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
  20. palintwit

    Sarah Palin is back on Fox News, proving once again she's the turd that won't flush. Her daughter Bristol is not much better. And then there's that tard baby.

    June 18, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      You really need to address this obsession with Palin. No one else cares.

      June 18, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.