(CNN) - After 37 years, Exodus International, an organization whose mission was to "help" gay Christians become straight, is shutting down. But not before issuing an apology.
"We're not negating the ways God used Exodus to positively affect thousands of people, but a new generation of Christians is looking for change - and they want to be heard," Tony Moore, an Exodus board member, said Wednesday.
The announcement comes less than a day after Exodus issued a wide-ranging apology to the gay community for "years of undue judgment by the organization and the Christian Church as a whole," a statement from the group says.
"Exodus is an institution in the conservative Christian world, but we've ceased to be a living, breathing organism," said Alan Chambers, the president of Exodus. "For quite some time, we've been imprisoned in a worldview that's neither honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical."
Chambers, who has a wife and children and previously identified as gay, has acknowledged that he has "ongoing same-sex attractions."
There is a docu mentary that came out in 2011 called 'This is what Love in Action looks like'. It discusses Exodus and Love in Action (another former gay camp). You can watch it on instant Netflix.
Another washed out Christian.org hit the dust!
Just the sign of the times. The Word of God says there would be apostasy in times prior to the end.
It is not the world that is falling into apostasy. The world never knew Christ. It is in the CHURCH.
That says it all. But God and His Word never changes. It will outlast all man's opinions. They are nothing but puff of hot air in the wind, today here and gone when his breath leaves his earthly frame. That's when they all will find out who is the Lord.
Look, don’t you see that people live or die on your word?
MAN IN SHACK:
It’s nothing to do with me, I’m not involved with people. The Lord knows I am not a cruel man.
W-ahhhh! You say, “The Lord.” So you believe in –
MAN IN SHACK:
My cat. I call him “The Lord”. I am kind to him.
What if you were the only believer left on earth, PRISM? Would you still be spouting that bullshit?
Gays holding onto their carnal ways, refusing to learn His spiritual truth is the righteous way to live. Go figure. It's so simple, yet carnal folks refuse to stop living carnally. Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my.
I think you imagine carnal acts most of your waking hours, HS.
You must have had a truly awful marriage.
Carnal ways, HeavenSent? Really?
The 15th century called, and want their vocabulary back.
Someone would marry HS? Not likely.
Hey HS you and prism would make a good carny act.
Vicky, what is the point of posting links like that?
Tom, no wonder you're a goat.
Maybe you can respond to my post to freddy, HS. Freddy says that being gay isn't a sin and that sin only occurs when there is extramarital sex. Therefore, it seems clear that gay marriage will solve the issue. Are you in agreement? You support gay marriage?
Tom, living gay is not only a sin, it's an abomination. Gays are the only sinners that suffer eternally for hating and denying how Jesus created them. All other sinners that refuse to love and abide in His truth, get blotted out.
Could you choose to be gay?
What about the FAR FAR GREATER number of Christian ADULTERERS?
Don't you care all about them? You NEVER condemn divorced and remarried Christians who are therefore automatically ADULTERERS. You know, like in the Ten Commandments?
Never mind, HS. It really doesn't interest me to read about your crazy beliefs. The world is going to continue to change and your kind are disappearing rapidly, though not fast enough.
Your life must be hell.
What is crazy is how you are conditioned not to believe truth, instead buy into lies even though many people cared enough to teach you truth. Your parents for # one. Stoops.
Observer, how many times do I have to post what he wrote in His final truth in the Book of Revelation meaning to reveal His truth
But the fearful, and u.nbelieving, and the a.bominable, and m.urderers, and w.horemongers, and s.orcerers, and i.dolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Pay attention this time to the last time He tells us who isn't getting into heaven Observer.
gee, another end times warning.....how quaint
Funny that HS seems to think my parents taught me the "truth" as she sees it. In fact, they were both very fond of the gay friends I had and enjoyed their company. They never once quoted the bible as a means to judge others, HS. They were so much better than that. What a shame, truly, that you're not.
I can't imagine that any god would like to have you as a disciple.
Tom, you don't know or accept God do you?
Oh, look, it's Austintasia of the Dead Cat Society.
I don't accept what assholes like you, HS, and fred claim any god says.
When are you going to post your recent dreams, honeybun? And when are you going to explain just how the ABOVE GROUND POOL signifies anything from God?
You were probably addressing real Tom, but I have to say, Austin, that I don't see how you can know that there is a God. If you were to present a proof of the existence of God you'd be the first to do so. It seems to me that you have to know there is a God before you can know God.
Yup, ye ol' gubmint churches have always been in trouble. Now they're completely useless.
"Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."
Preempting the liars, I must mention that leaven is not a gud thing.
not a single word
I count 4 words.
"Faith can be a beautiful thing." give examples
The gospel we must shout from the housetops is that Jesus loves all of us, no matter our condition, and that His forgiveness can heal our brokenness j lee grady
u got it
oh faithy, I can just see you now....creeping people out as you take your half-broken ladder and go from home to home climbing on the roof and shouting to your imaginary friend like some crazed lunatic.
I am glad to see this change happen. I know a few folks that came out of Exodus International and they are not happy people.
The world is changing, and unless religion changes with it, religion will find itself dying away. Faith can be a beautiful thing. It can also turn and distort and fester.
We have to begin to realize that laws and codes of conduct handed down in a time before science, before understanding biology and evolution, before our world was so grossly overpopulated, should no longer govern our lives, even if we otherwise subscribe to the faith.
May all who have been hurt and harmed and wronged by this awful organization find peace and healing.
May all those who found the peace that transcends all understanding as a result of Exodus remain steadfast in their faith and love of the Lord.
None of the people I know who were part of Exodus found anything like peace there.
Conversion therapy is hatred and bigotry dressed up in religiousity and made palpable because that religion has made people desperate to become something other than who they were born to be, stigmatizing them and calling them filth until they can no longer stand themselves so much that they beg to be made clean.
The truth that will set them free and help them to find peace is to discover it is the mirror they are faced with that is filthy and unclean, not them.
You could not be more wrong. It is faith that brought humanity this far and it is the godless experiment never attempted on a global scale that presents the greatest risk to humanity.
I'm not going to argue with you about the damage programs like Exodus have caused. It is clear and obvious in the tears and deaths and self-loathing of the people who went through it.
Being gay is not a disease. There is no cure.
Teaching people that they are evil and sinful and dirty simply for loving another person is wrong. Period.
If you have something to add to the conversation, Vic, please do. I am not going to go clicking on a bunch of links.
Interesting you reject God so that you can act out anyway you please and call it good while I accept God so I do not act out anyway you please and call it good. We cannot both be right so how do we come to an agreement in the absence of a higher authority that we can both agree up is right?
First, I may reject YOUR god, fred, but I am not an atheist.
Second, in what way do I act out? I am single. I live alone. I work hard. I give to charity, in both time and money. I support my family and friends. I do counseling work. I am a minister.
We have no need of a higher authority to come to an understanding of what is good and right. It is simple. Does it result in good or evil? Does it build up or tear down? Does it breed love or does it breed hate?
Exodus and programs like it result in evil, they destroy lives, they breed hate. Therefore, they are not good.
Gay people need to humble themselves, meaning shelve the ego. Read the Bible and stop arguing or changing His truth to what they want Him to have written. Read what He wrote to you. Then, and only then, will you get His message. Good site to learn His truth
There is no ego involved in orientation. I mean, seriously? Who would chose getting kicked out of their family, spit on, denied basic human rights, etc, if it was about ego?
Secondly, the bible was written at a time when human sexuality was not understood the way it is today. Do you keep every commandment in that book? I don't know a single person who does.
In today's society a person who followed it to the letter would be locked up for assault, if not murder.
Believe what you want, but don't expect anyone else to live by your antiquated rules.
Why do 'we' have to come to an agreement, ferdy?
Being gay isn't a sin and it isn't a disease. It isn't something that needs to be or can be corrected or cured. Grow up and stop being such an ignorant boob.
Where do you morons get this nonsense about "rejecting god so you can continue your sinful ways"? You must all read the same crummy tracts. People who don't believe in a god are just as moral and ethical as those who do, and more so than some of the evangelical twits on this board.
Look at HS, for example.
Do you two nimrods actually believe that gays can simply decide not to be attracted to people of the same gender?
How stupid can you be?
@HeavenSent advised: "Gay people need to humble themselves, meaning shelve the ego."
I would just reply that Christians could use a bit of humbling themselves. Maybe let go of their dogma, and live as humans in the universe while they have a chance. Just a thought.
Maybe let go of their dogma, and live as humans in the universe while they have a chance. Just a thought.
So, maybe everyone drop their Faith and Non-Faith then all would be well for you.... or is only side supposed to "let go"?
Dogma is not the same as Faith. And yes, even those without faith have Dogma.
And yes, we could all do with dropping it and living our lives without it.
The Amalekites worshipers of Baal thought they were doing right by offering infants into the red hot brass arms of their fertility God as they gyrated in mass orgy. The Hebrew worshipers of God killed all these Amalekites including infants thought they were doing right. Were they both right or does one need to be right?
But on that note, I must get myself to bed. I have a day filled with meetings tomorrow....it's gonna be a long, long day!
Skip all the HYPOCRISY. Since you don't believe or support all of God's views on marriage, you have no business using the Bible as an EXCUSE to pick on gay marriage.
Do you see anybody behaving that way, ferd? Could you be more irrelevant?
Why don't you answer the question? Do you really believe that gays can simply choose not to be gay? Do you have ANY reliable source that supports your belief at all?
There isn't a thing that's unethical or immoral about being gay, freddy, dear. You just like thinking there is and using the bible to excuse your hatred.
Orientation is not a choice. What you do with your orientation is a choice. I don't care if you are straight or gay sin is sin. It is sin that separates us from God not orientation. What you do with your orientation is meaningless if there is no authority we can agree upon that represents a standard greater than ourselves.
Well, then, fred, since you believe that the sin resides in having sex outside of marriage and not in orientation, legalizing gay marriage would be the obvious solution.
There. That was easy. Thanks for admitting that you support gay marriage.
Why should ANYONE believe you about what the Bible says about marriage when you don't believe it all either?
Any answer other than HYPOCRISY? "Do as I say, not as I do".
If you're having trouble coming up with a response, do let Piddles know. It'll be a big surprise for him.
The Law for the Hebrew or sin served the purpose of pointing out the need for salvation and atonement. Marriage does not solve the sin problem and does nothing to restore the presence of God in our lives. One does not miss the way because of orientation or marriage we miss the way because we choose our way rather than the simply example Jesus gave.
What 'simply example', freddy? Did jesus expressly forbid gay marriage? Where?
“And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’“
—Matthew 19:4 (NKJV)
The simple example from Jesus was that he was not controlled by lust of any kind. He glorified the Father in all he did. Gay marriage does not glorify God as it brings into question if the Bible is the truth of God.
the real Tom, you posted "Do you two nimrods actually believe that gays can simply decide not to be attracted to people of the same gender? How stupid can you be?"
Answer: Allow me to simplify the answer. God's creation is beautiful. With that said, stop being so carnal touching what He said to NOT to. Everyone should look, but, not everything is to be touched. You'd know His truth if you learned how to be (meaning think and do) spiritually and leave carnal thinking/doing behind.
So, HS, are you going to die a virgin? Do you think all desire is "carnal"? Why? Why would your "perfect" god give humans the ability to enjoy sex and then make it seem to be something dirty? Again, how stupid are you?
You haven't answered the question, either of you. Do you agree that sexual orientation is not a choice?
Oh, never mind. Why should anyone care what you think your god said? You are both delusional idiots, and neither of you is anyone's role model. You have to be two of the most asinine posters here.
Nobody cares what you think god said. And nobody cares whether you approve of gay marriage, because it has nothing to do with your beliefs, only with what our laws guarantee us in terms of the rights we have. Your church isn't necessary for people who wish to marry. Neither is your approval.
gay marriage does not glorify God as it brings into question if the Bible is the truth of God.
You have yet to show anything at all that supports this notion, fred. I have to assume that's because there isn't anything. You're simply put off by the idea of gays and you, like HS, use the bible as an excuse for your hatred.
Must be awful to be acquainted with you in real life. What a sickening person.
tom tom, you are free to reject God and righteousness. Until you die. Then you answer and if you reject saving atonement,, if you walk along and refuse to let the Lord, Master, to sanctify your flesh, if you walk in obstinate rejection of God's ways, you may be in trouble.
You clearly do not understand that honor Jesus deserves and allready has been given. This is a battle against good and evil. This is serious.
Austin: Stop lying. You're the greatest hypocrite on this blog next to your girlfriend faith and her Mommy HeavenSent.
"This is serious." No, it isn't, Austintasia. Everything you post is a joke.
the real Tom
Same could be said for you know Chad and his sock puppets dot and Captain Ass Hat.
Orientation is not a choice. What you do with your orientation is a choice. I don't care if you are straight or gay sin is sin. It is sin that separates us from God not orientation.
So if orientation isn't the sin, what exactly is?
What you do with your orientation is meaningless if there is no authority we can agree upon that represents a standard greater than ourselves.
What is this need you have to have someone else tell you what is good and right? Or rather, your need to have us all appeal to the same authority?
Is doing good meaningless without a god? What a miserable way to live, if you ask me.
mwiw, fred probably IS miserable. He seems obsessed with the idea that because people don't all agree with him on issues such as gay marriage that it is essential we all look to the bible to figure out what's ethical and moral, and all assume that it is the final word on what's right or wrong.
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that we "agree" to have a system of jurisprudence that determines what is legal and what is not in such a way as to preserve our individual rights as they are guaranteed to us under our Constitution.
What's really humorous is fred's insistence that we all must "agree" with him and his idea of what god said for our society to work and for people to be happy and free, when that's patently false.
It is sad to live a life that steeped in misery, Tom. I know from experience.
I only knew peace and love once I left that faith behind. I wish folks like fred could realize how miserable they are and find their way to love.
But that is a decision we all have to make for ourselves.
"He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that we "agree" to have a system of jurisprudence that determines what is legal and what is not in such a way as to preserve our individual rights as they are guaranteed to us under our Constitution"
=> "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men"
Did you notice those rights were endowed by their CREATOR....................so give God thanks and stop making things up
"So if orientation isn't the sin, what exactly is?"
=>In short sin is anything that does not bring glory to God. It is very simple only two rules love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Do that and you bring glory to God.
"What is this need you have to have someone else tell you what is good and right? Or rather, your need to have us all appeal to the same authority?"
=>right and wrong changes overtime and place whereas a universal authority does not. Consider even Hawkings continues to search for a single unified theory........why? There can be only one as even relativity and quantum gravitational phase find themselves in conflict.
There cannot be two masters only one. Even in your life you must reject God because God conflicts with your desires.
In short sin is anything that does not bring glory to God. It is very simple only two rules love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Do that and you bring glory to God.
1) So why oppose marriage equality? Why gay people that they are evil and filthy and degenerate? How does that bring glory to your god? How is that loving your neighbor as yourself? If it causes your neighbor pain, if it drives them to consider suicide, is that not the sin?
2) We are not a Christian nation. The citizens of our country are of many different faiths and no faith at all. Your god does not rule here, therefore, your god's rules do not apply unless we each chose to accept them.
right and wrong changes overtime and place whereas a universal authority does not.>
And in many cases, that makes this "universal authority" wrong and immoral. That is, after all, the entire point.
Consider even Hawkings continues to search for a single unified theory……..why?
I don't know Hawkings or anything he's searching for. I don't know why people keep bringing this guy up. This is yet another attempt to appeal to some authority that you think everyone who disagrees with you agrees with.
There can be only one as even relativity and quantum gravitational phase find themselves in conflict.
There can be only one? What is this, Highlander? One what?
Admittedly, I am not a hard sciences kind of girl, I am much more interested in the soft sciences; psychology, sociology, etc. That said, as such things go, I don't think a little conflict is necessarily a bad thing in the realm of science. It fuels inspiration and exploration which in turn becomes discovery and knowledge.
There cannot be two masters only one.
I disagree. I have had two bosses at work in the past, and that worked out just fine. And, I don't really feel a need to have a Master, per se, at least not in the daily life sense that I think you mean.
Go ahead and serve your Master, fred. I'm not trying to stop you. I wouldn't dream of stopping you. Just don't expect the rest of us to do so just because you do.
Even in your life you must reject God because God conflicts with your desires.
Not even close. I DESIRED God, with every ounce of my being, fred. I clung to even the idea of god because it TERRIFIED me to imagine a life without "him"...walking away was the last thing I WANTED to do.
However, I was faced with a serious self hatred if I stayed. The kind that likely would have driven me to suicide eventually. It certainly drove a lot of self-destructive behavior.
Rejecting the Christian concept of god, and all that goes along with it saved my life. I didn't want to do it, but I wouldn't be here today if I hadn't.
A g@y can love your invisible god and his visible neighbors as much as any straight.
Correct, orientation is not a sin or an issue with God
How is dot and the hairy sun fred ?
@Mark from Middle River
How stupid are you? What dogma should atheists drop? What belief should we reconsider?
Come on, Cap'n, you gotta admit, some atheists can be very dogmatic in their approach to what they don't believe.
no evidence the new testament isn't totally reliable and accurate
Reliable and accurate for what purpose? And by the way, I've some dark purple berries in my hedges. I've no reason to think they are poisonous. Want some, faith?
I have direct evidence that the writers of the New Testament were exaggerating, fictionalizing, and lying.
Walking on water, pulling an endless string of fish out of a basket, turning water into wine, healing people magically, impregnation of a teenager with an invisible penis, dead people walking, pulling demons out of a crazy person.
These are all impossible, which leads me to the firm conclusion that they were lies.
Oh, and I'll completely reverse my position as soon as someone performs an observable, repeatable, and recordable miracle under laboratory conditions.
For the A&A's stuck in their little corner of paradise, the quicksand pit:
Mister Sandman, I'm so alone
Don't have nobody to call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mister Sandman, bring me a dream
Mister Sandman, bring me a dream
Make him the cutest that I've ever seen
Give him the word that I'm not a rover
Then tell him that his lonesome nights are over
Mister Sandman, (yeesss?) bring us a dream
Give him a pair of eyes with a congeal of gleam
Give him a lonely heart like Pagliacci
And lots of wavy hair like Liberace
Mister Sandman, someone to hold
Would be so peachy before we're too old
So please turn on your magic beam
Mister Sandman, bring us
Please, please, please
Mister Sandman, bring us a dream
More lyrics: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/c/chordettes/
Hey, that'll work for the bum bum bum bum bum.......
Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom.
A "congeal of gleam'?
Idiot, it's "come hither gleam."
Pure copy and paste. I saw that, too. I thought it has sumpin' to do with the way a mob coagulates.
You're such an idiot.
Remember Being John Malkovich when John goes into his own mind? That's similar to HeavenSent, he thinks everybody is Tom.
I'm either right or you're all foolish with the sin of pride tripping you up as you post. Your choice.
You forgot the 3rd option, you brainless twat: you're wrong.
You've been wrong every single time you've accused someone else of being a "dummy handle." Every single time, you ass. I don't post under any other names.
Keep right on with your paranoiac babbling, HS. It makes you look even less sane than your sick interpretation of the bible.
I NEVER post under any other name, either.
So now you know better. Finally, you've learned something.
Scotty is a pervert with a filthy mouth. No woman would ever stoop that low.
Now who the hell is Scotty? Any relation to the dm murdock faith is always talking about?
HS must be having a mental breakdown, Akira.
Get over yourself Tom, no amount of your lying does a thing to me except makes your posts worthless. You own those lies that spew in your brain out to your keyboard.
Has to be a Poe. Nobody is that stupid.
How do we spell Tom? M I S E R A B L E.
Certainly not as miserable as some old hag who sits on her ass and babbles about others' "carnal ways" all day.
You're about as full of joy as a turkey on Thanksgiving.
Tom, what you should learn.
It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
Here's a tip so you won't continue to make such a COMPLETE FOOL of yourself.
I am male. Tom is female. If you don't know the difference, read "Biology for Dummies". You'd learn there that a gay man could father a child with a lesbian.
Now you won't look so STUPID when you claim you can't tell the difference between Tom and me.
If a gay man fathered a child with a lesbian, is he still gay and is she still a lesbian? hmmmmmmmm.
Of course he is still gay and she is still a lesbian.
Pregnancy results from the union of a sperm and egg. The s-xual orientation of the donors is NOT critical.
How can anyone be as stupid as HS? This is the first post I've made today. Period.
I don't post under any other names, you fvcking idiot. How hard is it for you to grasp that concept, HS? Are you demented?
Does that make em a commie socie couple??
Observer, you're under a false assumption that I care.
Could you call them bis3xual?
"Observer, you're under a false assumption that I care."
So why do you keep bring up this LIE of yours? Ooops!
Tom is on the West's most wanted list of wicked witches, down a ways from Hillllary.
lol??, male witches are called warlocks.
When Tom or his numerous handles post, he's lying.
Maybe it's a male in a female body?? Isn't there an Affirmative Action slot for that??
I'm female, you stupid old cow.
I'm not a witch, lollylimpdick, just because I tell you you're a complete asswipe.
Lol??, you aren't fit to change Hilary's Kotex, you stupid slut. And HeavenSent, if you got any dumber you'd be sewer gas.
the real Tom, I've asked you several times if you were a secular Jew. Each time you German, refuse to answer.
Scotty Tom, has to always bring in the dummy handles to back up his lies. Classic BAITER.
"I've asked you if you were a secular Jew." When? Where? You never asked me any such question and if you had, I'd have laughed you off your wrinkled old ass. My grandfather was a minister, you idiot. I'm not German. I was born here. My ancestry qualifies me to be a member of the DAR.
What friggin' color is the sky on your planet?
Could you call them bis3xual?
Not necessarily. As Observer pointed out, one is biology, the other is attraction/orientation. A gay man is capable of intercourse with a woman, just as a lesbian is capable of intercourse with a man. The act does not change the fact that they are not sexually attracted to their partner.
Also, in our world today, procreation does not require intercourse to take place. So a gay man can get a lesbian pregnant without every having sex.
A gay man is a man who is attracted to other men.
A lesbian is a woman who is attracted to other women.
A bisexual is someone who is attracted to both genders.
A heterosexual is someone who is attracted to the opposite gender.
None of that rules over procreation.
@My...................... I was just having some fun. You and observer are 100% correct.
@Ken, well, I never miss an opportunity to speak calm and rationality into a discussion about LGBT issues. Too much hysteria on all sides.
I haven't been around the forum too much of late, so not overly familiar with you. I love my new job, but it is keeping me hopping!
@My..............I'm thankful for you having a job. I'm all for gay rights. I'm not gay myself. My late aunt was. My support for gay rights is my way of letting her know I didn't for get her.
Tom, stop bragging about nothing. I've asked you numerous times if you were a secular Jew each time you spew your nasty cow comment. Same when I ask one of your dummy handles you're using if you are a Christian. Each question is ignored.
You haven't asked me that question. If you asked somebody else that question, that's your problem.
There's no bragging, muskrat, just facts. Don't believe me? Ask me if I care.
the real Tom, it reads as if you watch too many reruns of Deputy Dawg.
I wasn't aware that "Deputy Dawg" was a book. Is that what you like reading, HS? Or do you prefer those cheap bodice-rippers with the lurid covers?
Really, how can you be so stupid?
To all sinners... you too can find peace in Jesus. I gave my life to the Lord years ago and have been blessed by His peace and joy, and assurance of eternal life ever since. PTL We all sin and fall short of His glory. of His Holiness. And though the wages (or penalty) of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Receive Him as Lord and Savior and these verses will become very much alive to you also. God Bless
What makes you think we're sinners?
@Steve........And exactly how have you been blessed? Hit the lottery? Did your member grow an extra inch or two? Did your wife leave you? Please, please tell us all how you have been blessed!
We are all sinners. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". ....Romans 3:23 This is why Jesus Christ came to this earth. To die on the cross in order to pay for our sins. If we receive Him as Savior and Lord, and are willing to repent of our sins, He has promised us eternal life.
You new here?? A&A's don't believe in the concept of sin. They are quite flexible when it comes to governing their lives.
@steve..............................."He has promised us eternal life" Are you now telling me I'll never die. Hot da'mn.
I was a gay man. My wife never knew. I still am, but Jesus has helped me control myself. 2 Peter tells us to control ourselves and I now control my gay urges.
lol?? Deny all you want, it still doesn't make your way of living/thinking true.
@steve...................Hold on here. Are you pulling a Mutt Romney? the ol switcheroo? what gives here?
You are a gay man so stop feeling guilty. Remember you were made in God's image.
@steve...............You contradict yourself. You were a gay man. I still am a gay man. Obviously you cant control your urges because you are still gay. I feel sorry for your wife. Is this what she prayed for? Remember as religious people like to say "we are all god's children" so gay or straight you are no less important than anyone else. So be yourself, be proud and stop living a lie, if not for you, your wife!
Observer, you forgot God gave us freewill. LOL. Twist that tonight to give you something/anything to do.
Steve, if I was gay, I'd control my urges by greasing up my pole and sticking it up butts, or have the reverse done to me. Give it a try, I imagine it's more fun than the metaphorical circle-jerk at your prayer meetings.
Scott, is that why your Christian wife left you. Or, is it for being the putz that you are ... not being equally yoked?
Define "sin". If it can only be defined based on your book of faith, then it does not apply to anyone who does not ascribe authority to that book of faith.
I am no sinner. I live a wonderful life, with amazing blessings that come from hard work and good living.
"Observer, you forgot God gave us freewill"
How much "freewill" did all the children, babies and fetuses have that were drowned by God in the Flood?.
Observer, besides having your belief backwards, God destroyed during that flood due to the majority of men (meaning women too) were evil. End time (meaning the generation we live in today since, 1948, when Israel got their land back) is worse today than in Noah's day. That's why Jesus comes back.
HeavenSent, you may want to re-read what I said. There is no sin.
myweightinwords, amen is redacted. Feel better?
steve: sin, heaven, hell and god are all man made concepts
your empty proxy threats are bullspit
get off your knees, boy
Whenever someone says "God intervenes in mysterious ways." That is code for i have no idea what just happened. but I can make up something to bu'll sh'it you.
My parents conceived me. As parents have been conceiving strait children since the beginning of time. As parents have been conceiving gay children since the beginning of time. Not a big wondrous event.
Ken, another one I heard when a TV reporter was interviewing a woman after a tornado hit somewhere in the Bible Belt was something like "god has his reasons, we don't see the big picture". Wow, I thought that was a good one.
@Athy.....................You'd think if they read the bible like they say they do, they would "see the big picture" or "know god's reasons" for these things happening and get the H3LL OUTTA THERE!
Face palm, now I'm convinced.
Some guy named Matt wrote down a bunch of stuff, then someone else came along and numbered his sentences.
Matthew 10:3 (Jesus instructing to teach the Jews first to teach the world His truth, but, most Jews dropped the ball due to unbelief and stayed with their traditions of man religion of Judaism).
Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Uh.... ok. If you're going to put it that way.
"that contract is between a man and a woman so they can be fruitful and multiply."
So no marriage for infertile couples and the elderly, right? Or are you just being a HYPOCRITE?
God intervenes in mysterious ways.
6Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
So, no marriage between sister/brother or even 1st cousins? Mother/son or daughter/dad? Where does being hypocritical truly end? Heck, even sister/sister and/or brother/brother. Who's sensually hypocritical and where does sexual hypocrisy end?
Would you marry Jesus if he proposed to you?
Observer, go whine to someone who wants to listen to you belly ache.
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .
Pot, meet kettle.
I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that
Sorry Hal, but this 'Dave' is in no need of another "Dave" in his life with the exception of one's real brother to look after and be looked out for in opposing manner.
So you hate Jesus' lovin'? You disgust me you atheist pig-dog.
"God intervenes in mysterious ways."
Are you suggesting god might mysteriously grow back a uterus after a hysterectomy?
I would say that the ways of man are far more mysterious than any god's. Consider the mystery of how people continue to worship an idea of which has had many iterations through time, including a cruel and vindictive tyrant. Christians appear to be suffering from a bad case of "battered housewife's" syndrome.
I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that, cough, Tom always tips her dummy handles. LOL
For my people [is] foolish, they have not known me; they [are] sottish children, and they have none understanding: they [are] wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
If I'm Tom, why am I a conservative?
So no marriage for infertile couples and the elderly, right? Or are you just being a HYPOCRITE?
Are you still COMPLETELY STUMPED?
A conservative wouldn't question another Christian in public.
Observer, I'm not stumped, I'm tired of you posting all over the place to make a point that you are wrong.
Who said I was a Christian?
IF you weren't COMPLETELY UNABLE to figure out an answer, you'd have given one. Unless, you're AFRAID to answer.
HeavenSent, are you seriously trying to posit that there are no conservative atheists? Or conservative gay people? Really? Is that a Republican requirement?
Apparently you haven't heard of the Log Cabin Republicans.
And a Christian may absolutely call out another Christian on their hypocrisy. Don't be disingenuous.
@Akira......................."Apparently you haven't heard of the Log Cabin Republicans"
Sounds like gay movie starring D'ick Cheney.
Observer, I know the answer. I'm tired telling you Tom, so you can twist and contort it for your agenda of stroking people on earth, caring less that you help send them to the eternal flames. You too for condoning sin.
@heaven.................I don't know the answer, tell me.
Akira, you're going to get what you want in anything I post.
Did Jeremiah have something against verbs?
Ken, believe me, the irony of the name hasn't escaped me, lol!
Just trying to educate you, HeavenSent; if you want to cling to erroneous information, that's on you.
Akira, it's a shame you wasted your freewill keeping yourself engrossed in carnal living/thinking which keeps you spiritually dead.
What sort of "carnal" life do you imagine people are living, HS? What are they doing that you don't, or didn't, do?
I don't believe that "god" gave me free will. Meet me half way and prove that there's a god first, then we'll go to the next step.
Tom, read from His truth.
4561 // sarx // sarx // sarx //
probably from the base of 4563 ; TDNT – 7:98,1000; n f
AV – flesh 147, carnal 2, carnally minded + 5427 1, fleshly 1; 151
1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers
the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts
2) the body
2a) the body of a man
2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or
2b1) born of natural generation
2c) the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"
2c1) without any suggestion of depravity
2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh)
whether man or beast
4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart
from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God
You're overdue for your dose of thorazine, HS.
You are making no sense whatsoever.
Tom, carnal never understands spiritual but spiritual understands that carnal needs to change their carnal ways in order to be saved.
"...but a new generation of Christians is looking for change – and they want to be heard,"
Change for the sake of change is never good, but change that is effected based on scriptural content would be powerful. The question would be how much of prayer goes into various decisions that are made? How much of Godly wisdom for discernment is sought within organizations?
It's not change for the sake of change, it's change to progess from a history of bigotry to turn the various Christian faiths into becoming more accepting of others. This is surely a positive thing.
When the going gets rough, the weak minded run away-
@ eye of a needle
When an intelligent person learns and overcomes his ignorance, he changes his ways.
To revert back to truth absolute is of human, and way to greatness, to change for a reason, but not to believe iin truth absolute is way of muslim magi's, crook shamans, not for the sake of truth, but to please their muslim soul, filthy desire to hind fool humanity. They were muslim gays, filthy secular s to begin with , and they did nothing new, but they reverted back to their muslim gay ism, criminal self center ism.
No. Ancient book have no part in the thought of modern humans.
They had no idea of "se'xual oruentation". Everyone was assumed to be straight.
Why didn't your lame a'ss god reveal the truth about "orientation" to them ? Or penicillin, or anything else for good health fro that matter ?
Rodents for Romney
Well, you're speaking purely of Middle-Eastern peoples there. The Ancient Greeks, the Roman Kingdom and early Roman Republic had a much better understanding of and toleration for human s.exuality.
Great questions but difficult not to have a worldly viewpoint and look to the path of least resistance to avoid conflict. One of the biggest problem plaguing society and having an impact on children is 'divorce'. What was done back then to prevent the rising divorce rate? nothing. Tough questions, no easy answers.
Read the Golden Rule sometime. Most Christians apparently ignore it.
Observer, I have the source for most of the quotes in the Golden Rule being Jesus Christ's. It's called His letter He wrote to ALL to read, the Holy Bible.
this topic is a topic called , se.xually immoral idolatry. and we are all probably guilty of this at times in life. the question is, how far should a spiritual creature go into sin.
If you reject God, you will probably keep going. and even if you want to be a christian, we at times violate Gods communing spirit within us. God help us one and all.
Austin, is that me?
Good. So you know Jesus NEVER picked on gays like you do. He wasn't a hypocrite.
He did say that people who married should never divorce. So why aren't you working on that MUCH MUCH BIGGER problem? There's LOTS fewer gays. Any answer other than HYPOCRISY?
Observer, knowing what the problem is and trying to have a real dialogue that goes against your agenda is considered picking on others? Why? Because your ego tells you so.
Observer, you're twisting scriptures as usual. Jesus gave us a reason for divorce.
"Observer, you're twisting scriptures as usual. Jesus gave us a reason for divorce."
Jesus said "what God has joined, let man not separate".
@R f R "....."
Everything we see, observe, sense, detect, learn, and whatever science we arrive at is Natural Revelation from God :!:
Is God up your ass?
Observer, that's right. Divorce courts do not dissolve heavenly marriages. Only adultery and death of a spouse dissolves the marital contract of God's.
You frequently make comments about gay marriage.
How many divorced and remarried Christians have you told to get a divorce since they are ADULTERERS?
We are NOT under the Mosaic Law since the Salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are NOT in the Dispensation of the Law; we are in the Dispensation of Grace :!:
It's the same "unchanging" God in both testaments.
God is unchanging is true. I am talking about change in time dispensations by God.
Observer, I have truth on my side when talking with a straying spouse. I've never had a problem talking with a spouse who's sinning. As a matter of fact, I just conversed with a sister, who's brother was married to my friend who cheated on her husband with her bf from HS. She's no longer my friend because I backed her faithful husband when she asked him for a divorce ... screaming at me that I was a traitor for not backing her lies. I'm still standing in His truth, where, she's still living satan's lies. This happened in the late 80s and I don't miss her lying ways at all.
Wow. You must associate with some pretty horrible people, HS. I don't know anyone who's done something like that.
Maybe you should do a better job of choosing your friends.
Christians, no doubt? This sounds about that sordid, anyway, HeavenSent.
Here's Observer's question again, HS. I don't believe you have answered it. Your most recent post certainly didn't address it. Why is it that you cannot come up with an answer to it?
"How many divorced and remarried Christians have you told to get a divorce since they are ADULTERERS?"
The question is: how many Christians have you told to divorce because they were previously divorced and remarried? Whether they currently are cheating is irrelevant.
Jesus said they are all ADULTERERS. So what is the answer?
the real Tom, you posted "Wow. You must associate with some pretty horrible people, HS. I don't know anyone who's done something like that. Maybe you should do a better job of choosing your friends."
Answer: She was my best friend. She came out years after the divorce. You can insert your foot now into your big mouth.
"God is unchanging is true. I am talking about change in time dispensations by God."
"time dispensations"? That's a good one! That's just double-talk for saying God changed. Get serious.
Observer, true to your question.
So HOW MANY Christians have you told to divorce again because they are committing adultery by remarrying after divorce (regardless of their fidelity at present)?
Observer, everyone is responsible for making the decision to divorce on their own. If they need to discuss the issue, that's entirely different. They own their decision.
So the answer is none then?
after years of damage to the gay community, now they want to be friends? I don't think so.
Why? Wounds heal. Friendships can be forged between worst enemies.
Living in denial is the culprit. If I believed I was born a kangaroo, doesn't make it true.
Yeah but living in The Nile causes deat by drowning.
Oh, Tommy Tom, looks like you posted a typo.
Possibly. Or maybe I was referring to the French socialist Marcel Deat.
Tom, good save but, no cigar.
For you Gandhi quoters. Would you have stopped his marriage??
No, but I'd suggest some nice Gucci sandals.
Gandhi was never an American citizen.
Don't matter. Hilllllary wants to be a leader on the wurld stage. Keep up.
Yeah, cuz all rational people go to youtube for "proof".
How the he1l does one "keep up" with the ramblings of the insane ?
Please tell me this is ironic. You can never tell with this guff.
I must say that's the nicest song I've ever heard about Buddha.
A huge thanks goes out to Exodus!! Great decision. Thank you.
Always beneficial to be on the right side of history. It makes for somewhat better of a world to reside in.
Part of me thinks Chambers may have been operating from within to bring them down.
For what reasons do you wonder that?
First off, wouldn't copy and paste be easier?
Second, it was a rather flippant remark, not meant to be taken seriously. However, if you look at some of the comments he made over the past few years, he was evidently skeptical of conversion therapy.
They know Romans 8.
There is a peti tion at "We the People" to ban Creationism and Intelligent Design in the science classroom as federal law.
Good idea, Let's hope it gets to be law.
Does that mean you'll sign Athy?
Sure will if they ask me.
Christ, it's shameful that we should even have to enact such a law.
No one will ask. I'd post the site but I don't know how. Go to Richard Dawkins twitter to access the site.
Right you are, but some people just have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.
Thanks, secular. I'll try to find it.
Holy *&%^%%&*%$$%$^%&!!!! What, do we now need a law to make sure that math teachers only teach real math? How bout chemistry, do we need a law telling teachers to only do experiments that actually work as chemistry? We need a law for this? What the fvck?
Maybe we do need a law. Will you sign the peti.tion Cpt. Obvious?
Infringe on happiness and love?? Say it ain't so!!
Reclassify and restructure!!! BBBbbbbwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha, commie mommies
Jesus was the original commie.
Yes. I will sign the pe(b00b)ion.
Thank you Cpt. Obvious!
This whole thing was some bi-sexual's fault.
They went from a same sex relationship to a hetero relationship because of peer pressure and all the christians thought 'gay' was a curable disease.
One more part of religion that makes you feel guilty where no guilt should be involved.
"It is sickness of heart, and hinduism, divination from truth of life."
Any religion that inspires people to kill each other, is a sickness of heart.
Gay folks can stop practicing their gay lifestyle if they knew Jesus' truth. Here lies the problem that they don't know His truth because they listen to fake preachers that preach man's truth and not Jesus' truth. Even the phony preachers that tell man what he wants to hear instead of what he needs to hear. This is the reason why it's everyone's responsible to read what He wrote in His letter to u needs to read the Bible on their own.
My computer sent on it's own w/o my finishing... that it's everyone's responsibility to read His letter to us (the Bible) on their own.
I think you're underestimating and simplifying what law is. Law is not simply a set of do's and don't, but is always informed by the beliefs of those who put the law in place that they are for the betterment of society. My religious beliefs tell me to be against war and the death penalty – because my religious beliefs inform that, should I no longer be an advocate against those things? Or should I only stop being an advocate for the things you disagree with?
What is happiness? Happiness is a fleeting emotion that can change with the tides.
I again point you back to previous examples. When psychologists argue for the legalization of child-adult marriages – will you use that same logic?
Red-letter Christianity is dangerous at best. Those words were written by the same men who wrote the surrounding text in black. Luke, who wrote many of the great parables which you probably love, was a disciple of Paul. Why would I then only trust what Luke records as Jesus' words, and not the surrounding black text nor the teachings of the one who discipled him? Further, even if you were to only follow the red ink, you would know that Christ's inclusivity is exclusive towards those who do not die to themselves and love him by keeping his commandments.
I appreciate your support, but they're not haters. This is a sensitive subject and I appreciate everyone's honesty, whether we agree or not.
"Thinking for yourself", as you like to call it (freedom from religion), is not thinking for yourself at all. It's only picking a different lie and god you want to serve.
Apologies for the duplicate post! This was meant as a reply on the previous page.
Do you realize that anybody who equates gay marriage between consenting adults with a child-adult relationship automatically loses any argument they were trying to make?
I agree with Sorry-Dave. The "what next?" argument is unconvincing, and intellectually dishonest as well. Suggesting that the thing you hate, will lead to something even worse, is an invented problem, unworthy of consideration.
Marriage is a contract, and children can't enter into contracts. And if you think that means we have to allow pedophilia I would point out that harms the child. Two gay adults getting married harms no one, and therefore there is no reason to be against it.
It's like that Saudi cleric who said allowing women to drive causes earthquakes.
Neal, the duplicate post is probably a good thing, our last one was getting a bit long anyway. I will reiterate my post here as well.
Please explain to me how a law against gay marriage can lead to the betterment of society. Be specific, exactly how is society made better or improved by denying the right of marriage to gay couples?
Neal, I don't follow Christianity, I follow Jesus.
Taking Him at his word is dangerous? No, injecting one's interpretation of His true and perfect word is what is dangerous.
Reject His word if you must. I choose not to.
I will take Jesus and His word.
Jesus never said a word about gay people. None. Nada. Zilch. Basing your prejudice for gays is wrong if you are basing it on what others said, not the Lord Himself.
Christianity has completely taken what started out as a small ministry based on Jesus and inserted all of the biases and hate that Jesus would have been appalled by. He was inclusive whereas Judaism was exclusive. He would be shocked if He lived today; there is that saying, "Jesus Wept." He certainly would if He saw how Christians were twisting His words to fulfill their twisted agenda. Jesus was about love. Time that the Christians learned that lesson and go back to His ministry as He intended.
Exclusion never converted anyone.
I must go to work. Have a good evening.
I always like to ask the question: how would two gay people getting married impact one's life at all?
I should think that two gay people getting married would not affect one's life any more than two hetero people getting married would.
In other words, not at all.
I can actually answer your question Akira, when you ask "how would two gay people getting married impact one's life at all?". The people who hate and despise homosexuals would be infuriated if society sanctioned their existence and suggested that they were just like everybody else, by giving them the right to marry.
They will come up with a litany of excuses why gay marriage is bad, but the impact that they're talking about is that they don't want "those gay people" to win, and it would cause them anger, frustration, and distress. That's all there is to it.
And of course, for the rest of us who don't feel that anger, frustraiton, or distress, these marriages will have absolutely no effect on us whatsoever.
That about sums it up.
Yeah, I guess, Enjay and Dave. I just want to ask those people how the marriage of a random couple living 1000 miles away from them affects their daily existence? Answer: it really doesn't. Whether that couple is gay OR straight.
Actually, infuriating a bigot is a good thing, don't you think? I just wish I knew many more ways to do it.
Pete, that contract is between a man and a woman so they can be fruitful and multiply.
Romans 8 explanation.
And also HeavenSent, marriage can be for two people who love each other and don't wish to be fruitful and multiply, and who have no interest in what the Bible says on the subject.
What Paul thinks about marriage is his own business. Since when does that first century televangelist have authority over what we do in our society?
Actually, child-adult marriages seem to be the province of religion. How many cults continue to marry female children to much older men? Perhaps those of you who believe in a god should clean your own houses before making accusations about others.
EnjaySea, everything in the Bible is God's truth. He is the author no matter who is the messenger(s) that delivered His truth.
HeavenSent has proclaimed for all to hear: "Everything in the Bible is God's truth. He is the author no matter who is the messenger(s) that delivered His truth."
I know that's one of your people's bumper sticker truths, and you like to repeat that a lot, and you think it's true. But I don't believe you. All we know is that men wrote the Bible, and that those men stated that the Bible is god's word. I don't believe those men, I don't believe your bumper stickers, and just stating to me that it is god's word does not cause that to become true.
Your assertion is outlandish, illogical, implausible, and unbelievable.
And fucking stupid!
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