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Church without God - by design
Members of an atheist congregation at Harvard listen to music during a recent gathering.
June 22nd, 2013
11:25 AM ET

Church without God - by design

By Dan Merica, CNN

Boston (CNN)-– It’s Sunday in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and a rapt congregation listens to a chaplain preach about the importance of building a community.

A few dozen people sit quietly for the hourlong service. Music is played, announcements are made and scholars wax poetic about the importance of compassion and community.

Outsiders could be forgiven for believing this service, with its homilies, its passing of the plate, its uplifting songs, belongs in a church.

If so, it’s a church without one big player: God.

Sunday’s congregation in Cambridge is a meeting of the Humanist Community at Harvard University and the brainchild of Greg Epstein, the school’s Humanist chaplain.

A longtime advocate for community building, Epstein and his group of atheists have begun to build their Cambridge community and solemnize its Sunday meetings to resemble a traditional religious service.

To Epstein, religion is not all bad, and there is no reason to reject its helpful aspects.

“My point to my fellow atheists is, why do we need to paint things with such a broad brush? We can learn from the positive while learning how to get rid of the negative," he said.

Godless congregations

For Epstein, who started community-building at Harvard nearly 10 years ago, the idea of a godless congregation is not an oxymoron.

“We decided recently that we want to use the word congregation more and more often because that is a word that strongly evokes a certain kind of community - a really close knit, strong community that can make strong change happen in the world,” he said.

“It doesn’t require and it doesn't even imply a specific set of beliefs about anything.”

Epstein is not alone in his endeavor. Jerry DeWitt, who became an atheist and left his job as an evangelical minister, is using his pastoral experience to building an atheist church in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

This Sunday, DeWitt's congregation will hold its first meeting as a "Community Mission Chapel."

"When you become a part of this congregation, this community, you are going to become part of a family," DeWitt told CNN. "There is an infrastructure there for you to land in. There is going to be someone there to do weddings and to do, unfortunately, the funerals."

READ MORE: Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheists

Sunday school for atheists

As members of the Cambridge congregation file into a wood-paneled classroom at Harvard, singer Shelley Segal greets them with a few songs from her latest recording, called simply, “An Atheist Album.”

Taking a hint from the theme of the event, Segal strums on her guitar and belts her song, “Gratitude.”

“I don't believe in a great power to say thank you to,” Segal sings. “But that won’t take away from my gratitude.”

Harvard's humanist chaplain Greg Epstein leads an atheist gathering.

After the music, Epstein offers a few words of greeting before the meeting gets to its heart: a discussion about compassion.

A four academics and a journalist discuss the effects of religion on raising children and their ideas about compassion. Congregants listen intently, some even taking notes.

Each service has a message – compassion, evolution or acceptance - after which congregants engage in a lengthy discussion.

Before the main event, kids are invited to what some parents refer to as “Sunday school,” where Tony Debono, a biologist Massachusetts Institute of Technology, teaches the youngsters about evolution, DNA and cells.

There's little talk about organized religion, positive or negative.

Likewise, down in Louisiana, said his atheist services will not be anti-religion.

"What we are looking at doing is different," DeWitt said. "If you are a religionist and you come and sit in our pew, the only way you can leave offended is because of what you don’t hear and what you don’t see. We won’t be there to make a stance against religion or against God."

Coming out of the closet

In the last few years, the number of “nones” – those who don’t associate with any organized religion – has grown at a rate faster than any other group. Nones now represent one in five Americans, according to a 2012 Pew Research Center poll.

Although the number of atheists has grown, too, there are still a large number of “nones” that choose not to associate with the label “atheist.”

Some at Harvard’s Humanist congregation fall into this category.

“I don’t particularly have a religion,” said Anil Nyer, a neurologist who brought his daughter to Humanist Sunday school. But Nyer also said he didn’t want to label himself as an atheist.

One reason to shy away from the atheist label: Many Americans hold a negative impression of nonbelievers.

According to a recent Public Religion Research Institute poll, nearly 40 percent of Americans believe that atheists are changing American culture for the worse.

“Whenever we put atheists on a list like this and we compare them to other groups, atheists tend to come in towards the bottom of that list,” said Robert P. Jones is the CEO of Public Religion Research Institute.

“Americans tend to hold a lot of reservations about atheists.”

Epstein hopes his congregation can change that.

By formalizing meetings and building a strong community, the Harvard group hopes it can be a model for other atheist congregations forming around the country.

A group meets during an atheist gathering in Boston.

More atheists may come of the closet if they know a congregation will be there to support them, Epstein said,

“Being an atheist is something we want people to come out and be,” said the Humanist chaplain. “There are so many people, probably millions, who are humanists or atheists or nonreligious in private and nobody knows."

Epstein said he gets e-mails daily from people founding atheist meet-up groups.

“Tulsa, Oklahoma; North Carolina; London; Vancouver, Canada; Houston, Texas,” Epstein said, listing the sources of the most recent e-mails.

“One part of what we are saying is come on out and let your neighbors know” about your disbelief, he said. “It is not going to make you worse of a person, it is going to make you a better person to be more open about who you are.”

Rituals for the irreligious

For the last few years, the Humanist Community at Harvard has operated out of a small three-floor walk-up off the bustling streets of Harvard Square. The walls are littered with posters about atheism – tributes to famed atheists Eddie Izzard, Seth MacFarlane and Stephen Fry.

Because of the scattered furniture and the Harvard dorm feel, Epstein jokingly describes the space as “college broke chic.” That’s being generous – but it's also about to change.

Starting in the fall, the Humanist Community at Harvard will begin meeting in a nearly 3,000-square-foot community center with an event space for nearly 100 people.

Although the plan is to use the space at the group’s headquarters, it will also serve as a broader community center for the group that Epstein and others are trying to build in the Boston area.

“What we really would like to see is a community center where people can come by at anytime and to use it as a space to study or have a meeting for various committee,” said Chris Stedman, the assistant humanist chaplain at Harvard.

Stedman said he sees the new building as a place for people to gather, not only to become part of a humanist community, but to also become more engaged with the world.

When he talks about his plans for the future, Epstein appears to long for a time when the new community center could mimic aspects of church - a place for baby-naming ceremonies, weddings and funerals.

The success of an atheist church will depend on walking the thin line between too much and too little ritual, Epstein said.

Humanists boast a proud freethinking streak, and some at the Harvard event said they don’t want to be associated with any sort of dogma or belief system - or even a system based on disbelief.

Anyway, Esptein said his congregation will be less a group of people united by beliefs - or disbelief - and more like an opera, or a painting.

“Our community is like a work of art," he said. "Hopefully people will respond to that work of art and it will garner controversy and discussion like a work of art."

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • Church • Houses of worship • United States

soundoff (6,897 Responses)
  1. Colin

    A few sobering statistics.

    Number of authors of the Bible in total – over 100
    Number who ever met Jesus – zero
    Number of Apostles who wrote anything at all we have – zero
    Books of the Bible that describe events in Jesus life – 4. Only the 4 gospels.
    Number of years between Jesus’ death and first gospel – about 40 years
    Number of other surviving writings from the first Century that mention Jesus anywhere in the entire World. Less than 10.

    June 26, 2013 at 6:04 am |
    • Reality

      Yes, but:

      From Professors Crossan and Watts' book, Who is Jesus.

      "That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.

      “ The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus' followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.

      “While the brute fact that of Jesus' death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. "

      “My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.

      I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed. All those "last week" details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."

      See also Professor Crossan's reviews of the existence of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .

      Other NT exegetes to include members of the Jesus Seminar have published similar books with appropriate supporting references.

      Part of Crossan's The Historical Jesus has been published online at books.google.com/books.

      There is also a search engine for this book on the right hand side of the opening page. e.g. Search Josephus

      See also Wikipedia's review on the historical Jesus to include the Tacitus' reference to the crucifixion of Jesus.

      From ask.com,

      "One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and Annals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style.

      Then there are these scriptural references:

      Crucifixion of Jesus:(1) 1 Cor 15:3b; (2a) Gos. Pet. 4:10-5:16,18-20; 6:22; (2b) Mark 15:22-38 = Matt 27:33-51a = Luke 23:32-46; (2c) John 19:17b-25a,28-36; (3) Barn. 7:3-5; (4a) 1 Clem. 16:3-4 (=Isaiah 53:1-12); (4b) 1 Clem. 16.15-16 (=Psalm 22:6-8); (5a) Ign. Mag. 11; (5b) Ign. Trall. 9:1b; (5c) Ign. Smyrn. 1.2.- (read them all at wiki.faithfutures. Crucifixion org/index.php/005_Crucifixion_Of_Jesus )

      Added suggested readings:

      o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.

      2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
      – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–

      30-60 CE Passion Narrative
      40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
      50-60 1 Thessalonians
      50-60 Philippians
      50-60 Galatians
      50-60 1 Corinthians
      50-60 2 Corinthians
      50-60 Romans
      50-60 Philemon
      50-80 Colossians
      50-90 Signs Gospel
      50-95 Book of Hebrews
      50-120 Didache
      50-140 Gospel of Thomas
      50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
      50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
      65-80 Gospel of Mark
      70-100 Epistle of James
      70-120 Egerton Gospel
      70-160 Gospel of Peter
      70-160 Secret Mark
      70-200 Fayyum Fragment
      70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
      73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
      80-100 2 Thessalonians
      80-100 Ephesians
      80-100 Gospel of Matthew
      80-110 1 Peter
      80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
      80-130 Gospel of Luke
      80-130 Acts of the Apostles
      80-140 1 Clement
      80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
      80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
      80-250 Christian Sibyllines
      90-95 Apocalypse of John
      90-120 Gospel of John
      90-120 1 John
      90-120 2 John
      90-120 3 John
      90-120 Epistle of Jude
      93 Flavius Josephus
      100-150 1 Timothy
      100-150 2 Timothy
      100-150 T-itus
      100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
      100-150 Secret Book of James
      100-150 Preaching of Peter
      100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
      100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
      100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
      100-160 2 Peter

      3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
      – "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
      4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
      5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
      6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
      7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
      8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
      joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm
      9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.

      June 26, 2013 at 7:26 am |
    • Vic

      Apostles Matthew, Peter and John were of the Twelve Disciples of Jesus Christ (in person.) Jesus Christ appeared to Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus.

      Matthew 10:2-4
      "2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him."

      Matthew 28:16-18
      "16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "

      Acts 4:13
      "13 Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus."

      Acts 9:3-6
      "3 As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.”"

      All Scripture Is From:

      New American Standard Bible (NASB)
      Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

      http://www.biblegateway.com/

      June 26, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Neither Josephus or Tacitus were contemporaries and many of those writings are forgeries. Those arguments are old and worn out.

      June 26, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Pete

      O.K. Vic now prove that they wrote the gospels. However, you can't use the bible to prove that they wrote them. At best you don't know who wrote the gospels.

      June 26, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Reality

      Summarizing after making a thorough review:

      The Apostles'/Agnostics’ Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
      and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (references used are available upon request)

      June 26, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • Reality

      Some added commentary from NT scholars et. al:

      From Tacitus (From ask.com)

      "One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much- of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and A-nnals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style."

      "Therefore to scotch the rumor, Nero substi-tuted as culprits and punished with the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men loathed for their vices, whom the crowd styled Christians. Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius by sentence of the procuator Pontius Pilatus, and the pernicious supersti-tion was checked for the moment, only to break out again in Judea, the home of the disease, but in the capital itself where all things horrible or shameful in the world collect and find vogue." (Tacitus, Annals 15:44; Moore & Jackson 4.282-283)

      From: Josephus – The Essential Works

      by Paul Maier, http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm

      "For Christians, books 18 through 20 of the Antiquities are far and away the most important sections in all of Josephus' writings, since they provide a rich background for the entire New Testament era. Happily, they are also the most authoritative chapters in the Antiquities since at long last Josephus is either an eyewitness or direct contemporary of the events he is reporting. His paragraphs on John the Baptist show Jesus' forerunner from a fresh vantage point, while his portrayal of crucial events in the career of Pontius Pilate help explain that governor's pressured performance at the trial of Jesus. In the case of Jesus' brother James, he even provides crucial addenda to the New Testatment, which does not tell us how James died. Josephus does!

      His two celebrated references to Jesus – Antiquities 18:63 and 20:200 – have provoked an enormous quant-ity of scholarly literature. The const-itute the largest block of first-century evidence for Jesus outside of biblical or Christian sources, and may well be the reason that the vast works of Josephus survived manuscript transmission across the centuries almost intact when other great works, like those of Nicolas of Damascus, were totally lost. But are the Jesus references authentic?"

      See the rest of the article for a discussion about this question."

      June 26, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
  2. Waking up

    The entire bible is filled with evidence of God, but many miss it, or deny it. It's right there. Those are eye witness accounts in there, in that bible. How many people died to get the word out? There are letters from original apostles. There is history that aligns with artifacts, rulers, kings, rulers in other countries at the time.

    And there is mis-understanding and denial from people present day that don't want to know God.

    Who do you believe? People walk away from the creator of the universe and all he gave you. He gave you his word. He gave you life. He gave you forgiveness. All he asked for was belief, and to do what is right and good. He wanted what is optimal for happiness and joy.

    What they described is true, it is not made up. They didn't claim it's made up, they claimed it's the truth, and it is. What else would it be if people willingly walked into lions dens rather than deny God. And who else but Jesus would go with Roman soldiers to be beat and cut to near death and then die on a cross... for someone else... you. Jesus knew what you'd need and gave it to you, but if you reject it, you don't get it. It's right there... in the bible... the truth.

    June 26, 2013 at 5:04 am |
    • avengah

      You can't use the bible to prove the bible. It's called circular reasoning. There is no proof of your deity. If there was, don't you think we'd have heard about it by now and everyone would be your particular version of Christianity?

      June 26, 2013 at 5:44 am |
    • Colin

      You said, "The entire bible is filled with evidence of God". Bullsh.it. Show me one piece of evidence in the entire book.

      You said, "Those are eye witness accounts in there, in that bible. How many people died to get the word out? There are letters from original apostles." Again, utter bullsh.it. There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus' life. Zero. All 4 Gospels were written by peiople who never met him. This is not even contraversial !

      Second, no Epistles were written by Apostles. The Epistles attributed to Peter and John are known to be very late First or Seond Century writings by unknown persosns. No Apostle wrote anything in the Bible. Saint PAul never even met Jesus.

      You said "What else would it be if people willingly walked into lions dens rather than deny God". So what? Many Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus died for their faiths and gods. Do they all exist?

      June 26, 2013 at 5:49 am |
    • sam stone

      your god is a myth.

      no heaven, no hell, no judgement

      deal with it

      June 26, 2013 at 7:46 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      "What else would it be if people willingly walked into lions dens rather than deny God." GIve this a try and report back. Of course, if you are actually a believer then the momentary consequences are that you experience terror, pain and death, and the eternal consequences are you get to live in an indescribably blissful state with your God forever.

      As a disorder, this has been described by Theodore Millon. I add the common observation that the system of eternal rewards and punishments of Christianity reinforces all manner of personality disorders.

      June 26, 2013 at 8:04 am |
    • Waking up

      John the Baptist spoke out against Herod Antipas marrying his brother Phillip's wife. JtB got thrown in prison for it. And when the daughter of the wife, danced, she later asked for the head of JtB... revenge for his having said the marriage was wrong.

      Real people, real events... history.

      June 26, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
  3. Not a bible verse

    Updated 1:50
    "a.m. ET. AUSTIN, Texas Republicans in the Texas State Senate passed strict new restrictions expected to close almost every abortion clinic in the state, despite an hours-long filibuster against the measures and loud shouting and chanting"

    Kinda matches the not a church theme.

    June 26, 2013 at 2:29 am |
  4. Görthuk, Thrinaxodon Resistance Fighter, Terran Sector

    It is time to fight back against the Broomistegans. Throw off their yoke and join the Resistance!

    June 26, 2013 at 1:41 am |
    • Görthuk, Thrinaxodon Resistance Fighter, Terran Sector

      Oops, posted in the wrong sector. This interface is non-optimal.

      June 26, 2013 at 2:08 am |
  5. Austin

    John 17
    New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus is a glory hog.

    June 26, 2013 at 1:17 am |
    • Austin

      Glory is all that matters ... nothing else.

      June 26, 2013 at 1:20 am |
    • Science

      Hey asstin...........star dust.............to hard for you ......evolution (biology} is the key ...............not the nasty bible.

      Hiding in Plain Sight: New Species of Bird Discovered in Cambodia's Capitol Phnom Penh

      June 25, 2013 — A team of scientists with the Wildlife Conservation Society, BirdLife International, and other groups have discovered a new species of bird with distinct plumage and a loud call living not in some remote jungle, but in a capital city of 1.5 million people.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130625172210.htm

      June 26, 2013 at 5:59 am |
    • Science

      But remember Austin it was mot the fairy in the sky that created you !

      June 26, 2013 at 6:16 am |
  6. Austin

    John 17
    New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus Prays to Be Glorified

    17 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

    “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    Jesus Prays for His Disciples

    6 “I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

    13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by[d] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

    Jesus Prays for All Believers

    20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

    24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

    25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

    June 26, 2013 at 1:13 am |
    • Austin

      temptation.....attack with the intent to destroy

      June 26, 2013 at 1:16 am |
    • Austin

      Old Testament ( OIV ) Old International Version: Y'all be damned already.

      June 26, 2013 at 1:19 am |
    • sam stone

      "Jesus Prays to Be Glorified"

      So, he supposedly did this for his own glory?

      June 26, 2013 at 7:54 am |
    • Brother Maynard

      Why does Jesus refer to him self in the 3rd person ?
      Reminds me of that one Seinfeld episode with Jimmy
      "Jimmy likes Elaine"

      June 26, 2013 at 8:17 am |
  7. Genesis

    All I need is a TV show
    That, and a radio
    Down on my luck again
    Down on my luck again
    I could show you, I could show you
    Some of the people in my life
    I could show you, I could show you
    Some of the people in my life
    It's driving me mad
    It's just another way of passing the day
    I, I, Get so lonely when she's not there
    I, I, I.

    June 25, 2013 at 11:43 pm |
  8. tony

    The bible specifically notes (Gen 14:18) that god was not powerful enough to stop the Egyptian army catching the Israelites, as they first reached the red sea, so had to "send a mist" to hide them. So the next day he instead had to use the parted sea to drown them. That's just about 100% proof that there was no godly act, and hence no god, just great story telling about fortunate weather conditions.

    June 25, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • lol??

      what the hey??

      "Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God."

      June 25, 2013 at 11:08 pm |
    • Austin

      A priest above the Levite High Priest?

      Was God intervening with mankind?

      June 26, 2013 at 1:15 am |
    • Nice Try

      tony...

      Jude 1:10 – But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

      Matthew 12:26 – But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

      June 26, 2013 at 3:40 am |
    • Nice Try

      tony… And God could have struck you down dead for even making such a statement. But he didn't. Does that mean he is unable to, or is too weak to stop you? No. It only means he doesn't have time for fools like you. Instead, he'll get you on Judgment Day…

      June 26, 2013 at 3:44 am |
    • sam stone

      nice try shows the compassionate side of christianity by bloviating empty proxy threats.

      nice try.....you find comfort in a petty pr1ck god because you are a petty pr1ck

      you deserve each other

      now, b1tch, get back on your knees

      June 26, 2013 at 7:59 am |
    • lol??

      A&A's aren't smart enough to check the sources of their pals. They are too united in their hatred of light. Plus, they don't even know there is no honor among thieves!

      June 26, 2013 at 9:49 am |
  9. aallen333

    Have you ever considered the possibility that there is more to you than what meets the eyes? That your existence goes beyond the physical and into the eternal. That your life is not limited by this earthly plane of existence, but was meant to expand into the spiritual which is not limited by space and time. When you change your perspective on origins, the possibilities become limitless and the universe will begin to open up to you!

    June 25, 2013 at 10:40 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I know there is more than meets the eye. The eye can detect only a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. That there is a purpose to the existence of humanity is a self centered and meaningless question. The universe does not care what I want or think. The idea that I must exist eternally is arrogant.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • aallen333

      @Secular humanist from Ohio – I am not talking about what you see outside of yourself, but what you see within. I know you have wondered and felt there is more to you than what you see in the mirror. You were created in the image of God, and regardless of how hard you try to suppress this truth, there will always be a pull in your spirit to acknowledge it. It is inevitable and whether you realize it now or later, you can't change who you are. The caterpillar may argue vehemently that it is a caterpillar, has always been a caterpillar and will never be anything more than a caterpillar. But regardless of how convinced it is of its argument, this will not prevent it from becoming a butterfly.

      June 25, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      You begin with the assumption that god exists, an assumption I reject. I can feel the numinous without concluding there is a purpose to it.

      June 25, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I agree with secular humanist. Eternal life is an extremely arrogant idea without absolutely no basis in reality. Death is the ultimate price of being born. It's natural. The only reason to desire eternal life is fear of death or complete self-absorption.

      June 25, 2013 at 11:21 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      You are too kind tallulah13, thank you.

      June 25, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
    • Dippy

      Aallen333. In response to your first question, the answer is no. Absolutely no evidence to believe otherwise. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

      June 26, 2013 at 12:57 am |
    • Kev

      There is also no evidence to establish as a fact that there is no God or that there is no such being who is basically omnipotent who doesn't want to be made known but would rather have humanity build their own faith in said being. With that criteria there is just no way to really prove one way or the other.

      As to the concept of one's self being eternal in nature as being an arrogant concept, that would seem to be the case if there was a comparison made between one's self and someone else or something else. That there is the I'm better than you mentality, but I didn't see any such comparison made by aallen333. It's just like there is a difference between self confidence and pride. You don't have to tear someone else down in order to bring yourself higher.

      June 26, 2013 at 4:00 am |
    • Been there, done that for years

      Tried different religions, different philosophies; looked into gods, ghosts, reincarnation, UFOs… Found they are all nothing more than a pack of fables and wishful thinking

      June 26, 2013 at 5:04 am |
    • Colin

      You said "There is also no evidence to establish as a fact that there is no God or that there is no such being who is basically omnipotent who doesn't want to be made known but would rather have humanity build their own faith in said being. With that criteria there is just no way to really prove one way or the other."

      Saying, effectively, "you can't prove God does or does not exist" is to create a false equivalence between the two positions. Think it through.

      There is no evidence God exists. Correct.

      There is also "no evidence God does not exist." What "evidence" could there be? Think about it. What possible evidence of non-existence can there be? By definition, there is no evidence of a negative. What evidence is there that Santa Claus does not exist? What evidence is there that the Hindu god Shiva does not exist?

      That is the fundamental difference between there being no proof of a fact and there being "no evidence of a non-fact." The latter is meaningless.

      June 26, 2013 at 5:40 am |
    • Observing

      Tallulah...and Secular humanist. My complaint is minor but I disagree that you can call a desire to survive "arrogant". It is merely survival instinct. I agree that does not make religion correct but the word "arrogant" is just an opinion and it does nothing to explain the perfectly instinctual desire to live on.

      June 26, 2013 at 5:41 am |
    • Kev

      Colin, to say about proving a negative point is meaningless is just the point. If you can't prove a negative then why automatically conclude that the truth has to be negative anyway. So just face it, all you really have is your own conclusion. Now although I can't prove your conclusion to be incorrect just like I can't prove someone's belief in God to be correct, neither can it be proven vice versa. All we really have is our own conclusions or beliefs.

      June 26, 2013 at 9:37 am |
    • Doobs

      Have you ever considered the possibility that there is less to you than what meets the eyes, lolly?

      June 26, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • fintastic

      @kev.......... "All we really have is our own conclusions ..."

      Conclusions based on imagination? or conclusions based on evidence....

      June 26, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Kev,

      The default position for any claim is to NOT believe in it unless sufficient evidence is presented to support the claim. If there is no good evidence to support a god claim then the only rational position is to not believe in a god.

      Since there has been no reasonable evidence presented in the history of man then it would be delusional to believe in one.

      June 26, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Kev

      So, what evidence is there that there is no basically omnipotent being out there who does not want to be made known but rather have humanity develop their own faith in said being? So far no one has brought up anything. Each of us has our own opinion about what is believable and what is ridiculous, and it's just that an opinion nothing more.

      June 26, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • fintastic

      @Kev... "So, what evidence is there that there is no basically omnipotent being out"

      That's already been explained... you can't prove a negative, Are you making a CLAIM that a god exsists? yes or no.
      If yes, then you are the one that must provide the evidence to support such a claim. "I have a feeling" is not considered evidence.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:56 am |
  10. Vic

    I have a hunch that reverse psychology will play a role and cause this group, or a similar one, to go a full circle and find God in a moment of clarity.

    June 25, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Is that the same hunch that tells you that evolution is not correct and creationism is?

      June 25, 2013 at 10:15 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Isn't that supposed to come in threes?

      June 25, 2013 at 10:20 pm |
    • Roger that

      As a former believer, I would have to actually see and hear a talking snake to be convinced again. I don't see that happening unless I decide to become a heroin addict, and I don't see that happening.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I'd have to see a human born from a monkey.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
    • Greg

      Vic
      "and find God in a moment of clarity."
      Not unless they start taking magic mushrooms as some kind of "sacrament", they won't.

      June 26, 2013 at 12:08 am |
    • Dippy

      Vic, we'll stipulate that you know HTML. How about giving it a rest?

      June 26, 2013 at 12:59 am |
    • Doobs

      I have a hunch that Vic thinks using lots of simple HTML coding makes his posts look smart.

      June 26, 2013 at 11:10 am |
  11. Vic

    I have a hunch that reverse psychology will play a role and cause this group, or a similar one, to go a full circle and find God in a moment of truth.

    June 25, 2013 at 10:00 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      If hunches were horses then beggars would ride.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:04 pm |
    • Random Emphasis Man

      I have a hunch you abuse yourself as much as you abuse html tags!

      June 25, 2013 at 10:14 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      I have a hunch that Vic will keep posting nonsense.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
  12. Ron

    "He who belives in the Son has everlasting life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him". ...Jesus (John 3:36)

    June 25, 2013 at 9:55 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I am just so not convinced.

      June 25, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • Athy

      Bullshit, pure bullshit. There's just no better way to describe it.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:00 pm |
    • utalkintome

      if yoy believe the bible to be true and not shamelessly made up(which it is on the grandest scale) you need professional help[

      June 26, 2013 at 12:46 am |
    • Doobs

      Proxy threats, yawn.

      June 26, 2013 at 11:12 am |
  13. Ron

    "There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the Lord". ....Proverbs 21:30

    June 25, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      more hokey, greeting card sayings.
      like safety blankets for Christians.
      they can spit them out on demand.
      and somehow think that they proved a point.

      June 25, 2013 at 9:54 pm |
    • fintastic

      "It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live, remember that"

      Harry Potter

      June 27, 2013 at 8:01 am |
  14. Ron

    "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me". ....Jesus (John 6:44)

    June 25, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • Doobs

      Cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste. Do you ever have an original thought?

      June 26, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Isn’t “the father” and Jesus the same enti ty? Why would you need to go to one to get to the other when going to one would be going to both? Just like most things in that religion, it makes no sense what-so-ever.

      June 26, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Ron

      Honey Badger, Read the Bible. You will find out about the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father did not come to the earth to die for our sins, He sent the Son to reconcile mankind to Himself. The Son is Divine as Is the Father, they are of the same essence. "Before Abraham was born I AM" Jesus (John 8) Jesus, though Divine, is subject to God the Father. Jesus is now seated at the right hand of the Father....etc. Read the Word!

      June 26, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • fintastic

      @ron.... "the holy sprit".....; seriously? you believe in ghosts?

      June 27, 2013 at 8:02 am |
  15. Dyslexic doG

    and many years ago, back in that time there was a boy who was named Harry and he performed many amazing miracles like flying high in the sky and catching the sacred winged ball of gold and becoming invisible and banishing the evil one from his world.

    He would sit every day and speak words of wisdom to his friends and enemies alike. He would eat food that appeared as if by magic so that all who were hungry would eat and be hungry no more.

    At the end of one year, he went to his room but when his friends looked for him he was gone so they knew he must have ascended to another world. All of his friends missed him but knew that he would return one day soon and all would be glorious and good again.

    Oh, it must be true. I read it in a book. Ink on paper. There is no way it could have been made up!

    June 25, 2013 at 9:47 pm |
  16. Douglas

    Dirve out fear...end the hate!

    Ceilbacy can free the sinner from the abyss of suffering.

    Reach out with the hand of fellowship and welcome the celibate sinner
    back from the abyss.

    There is room for sinners to repent at the foot of the old rugged cross.

    June 25, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Love ridicule!

      June 25, 2013 at 9:45 pm |
    • Jeepers

      Embrace your homosexuality already, Douglas. Your family and your child want you to stop repressing yourself. Nothing worse than a self-loathing queen. The only cross that applies to you is cross-dresser, not that there's anything wrong with THAT.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:02 pm |
    • Doobs

      Put on a Depends and a news channel, Doogie.

      June 26, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • The real Tom

      Call up the SCOTUS and see if they care what you think.

      June 26, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • fintastic

      Me thinks Dougy aint gettin any.

      June 27, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
  17. Neo Atheist

    Since I've become an atheist, my life has been so much better. I have never been happier in my life.

    June 25, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • Dippy

      And the knees in your pants last longer.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
    • Neo Atheist

      Shortly after I became an atheist, my wife announced she was pregnant. Didn't need "god" to do that. BooyA!

      June 25, 2013 at 8:04 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      face palm

      June 25, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • Nice Try

      Neo Atheists... LOL. Well, enjoy it while it lasts. Because the hereafter, for you, will literally be "hell"...

      June 25, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    • Athy

      Oh, BS, Nice Try. Get your head out of the sand and face the truth.

      June 25, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
    • Ooooh

      Empty threats from Nice Try. Get real. Oooh...I better apologize the the big meanie before I die, like every other psuedo Christian does right before they kick the bucket. Hedge your bets, as it were...get out of Hell free card...

      June 25, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • Dippy

      Pseudo, not psuedo.

      June 26, 2013 at 12:50 am |
    • Neo Atheist

      Sure thing Nice Try, what ever you say. I don't believe in hell, or judgment from some higher power. Just because you do, doesn't mean that I do. Nor does it mean that It will happen to me.

      June 26, 2013 at 6:51 am |
  18. Bob

    Other Bob, since you are being a cafeteria Christian and dumping select bible bile on us from your Christian book of nasty, let's take a look at what's really in there. From both evil testaments:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
    18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    Leviticus 25
    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
    45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
    46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

    Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

    Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

    And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

    So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    June 25, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @Bob..................Truthful research will destroy Christianity. I can't wait to hear them ignore this. You'll have a better chance of getting a reply from a mime.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:32 pm |
    • One one

      All that stuff was taken out of context! 🙂 ; ) 🙂

      June 25, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      You're not reading it right! :)!

      June 25, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • fred

      Bob
      You can do better than that Bob. The Bible is a story of Gods plan to save his children from evil. How bad is that

      June 25, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • Two Twenty-Two

      It's always taken out of context if the message is bad. Standard excuse. 🙂 !

      June 25, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
    • fred

      bob
      31,103 verses in the Bible and you found 7 that brought out death and bondage. The Bible does indeed reveal the true heart of a man.

      June 25, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
    • fred

      Two Twenty-Two
      It is the straight forward honesty of the Bible the shows man as he really is before a Holy God.

      June 25, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      You must read the bible with the spirit of Jesus in your heart to be able to understand it. 🙂

      June 25, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • Bob

      Ignorant fred, I have many hundred more examples from your foul Christian users guide. I'll just wait until you can respond with any substance to that first lot. I think I'll be waiting a while.

      Furthermore, note that the existence of even one such bad line is sufficient to make my case. Your sicko book of Christian fiction is obviously not the work of an omnibenevolent, nor of a "god" at all.

      Do get over your disgusting Christian fairy tales. It's high time you did.

      June 25, 2013 at 8:37 pm |
    • I see the...

      ...asshole handle stealing troll is at it again.

      fred, if you can't accept the brutality of the Bible, you are being willfully ignorant. True honesty is knowing that God is just as vengeful as any jealous spouse is. Cut the baloney.

      June 25, 2013 at 8:43 pm |
    • Nice Try

      Bob… First, everything you said has been grossly taken out of context. Secondly, it is impossible for God to sin. And thirdly, everything God commanded in the bible was "holy" and upright and true. And when he cast you into the lake of fire come Judgment Day, believe it or not, that'll be holy too…

      June 25, 2013 at 9:07 pm |
    • james

      where to start? so sorry you are so mistaken about what you claim to know. first, Jesus said the law was no longer in effect after his death but two laws were in Matt.22:37-40, his purpose in coming was to fulfill the law and explain why it even needed to be in effect and the law you speak of was for the Jews and anyone who wanted to worship with them and to become separate from all the pagan nations. as far as mistakes go the only ones are from the King Jimmie Version which is not even a translation but his way of misleading HIS followers. Interpretations? only man makes the difficulties here but check out some real translations of the scriptures that are available. any other problems you have with the laws that were written to keep them separate from false Idol worshippers and are understood by many Jews and Christians today and all are explainable so please let me know if you are interested in learning what the Bible really teaches. as Jesus taught it will be free and most enjoyable. please check it out. I would love to help. peace, j

      June 25, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      @James

      Rubbish. Where to start? Write a sentence correctly capitalized.

      June 25, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • james

      Should have known someone from ohio would do something dumb like that. Is that the best you have?

      June 25, 2013 at 9:21 pm |
    • Bob

      I have already spoken to your "context" issue. Read it. Really, read what I said, again, and this time, do try to understand instead of just blabbering your usual Christian nonsense at me. Heard all that cr@p before.

      Again, and from both evil testaments:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 25, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      OOOH! The ad hominem attack! Good comeback

      June 25, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      .

      June 25, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I beg your pardon. Ohio is the a$$ hole of America.

      June 25, 2013 at 9:48 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      These hit and runners sure do know a debate strategy!

      June 25, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
    • james

      Bob? you are wrong. What it says in Leviticus is not applicable to other than Jews and any who want to be. Anyone who wants to follow Jesus does not have to sacrifice animals and why I am repeating this is beyond me so again, you are wrong and I offered to help but you do not want it so believe your lies and you can not say you were not offered when the time comes and it will come and that is in the Book bob.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I could be so mean right now but I won't.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @james,

      so no Leviticus for the Gentiles then? Great.

      What did Jesus say about h0mosëxuality again? Please remind me.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:29 pm |
    • Nice Try

      Bob… Rest assured, people like you will burn in hell for your lies and deceptions. Only a very weak mind would even fall for such nonsense and garbage. You come on forums like this and you post all of that garbage, and you post it like you really know what you're talking about, when you don't. You are an ignorant and unlearned person and you have no awareness of the true meaning of the scriptures. For example, the vast majority of those scriptures you quoted were talking to Israel and don't even apply to us in the church age. So what you said don't mean a thing because it doesn't even apply to us and you've taken those scriptures completely out of context. But did you even bother to find out what the context was or who those scriptures were talking to? Answer: No you did not. You just saw a couple of scriptures you liked that you felt you could use against God, and you grabbed it and ran with it. And now you are deceived. You must be careful what you grab. Because those same scriptures that can deliver you from life to life can also deliver you from death to death – meaning you'll go to hell and to the lake of fire and brimstone – if you don't deal with them properly. And you are dealing with them improperly…

      June 25, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Way to go Nice Try. Condemn Bob to hell. There's a conversation starter if I ever heard one.

      June 25, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • Nice Try

      Secular… It's not possible for me to condemn anyone to hell. People do that all by themselves (by committing their evil acts). All I do is just tell them where they're going (in case they're not aware of that fact)…

      June 25, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • Observer

      Nice Try,

      Skip the hypocrisy. Have you been out telling all your fellow divorced and remarried Christians what ADULTERERS they are?

      June 25, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Nice Try

      "Bob… Rest assured, people like you will burn in hell for your lies and deceptions."
      Still not a good conversation starter. It's like saying "people who don't accept the evidence for evolution are re tards."

      June 25, 2013 at 11:35 pm |
    • Commenter

      Nice Try,
      " All I do is just tell them where they're going"

      You know nothing of the sort.

      June 26, 2013 at 12:03 am |
    • fred

      Bob
      You said:"Ignorant fred, I have many hundred more examples from your foul Christian users guide. I'll just wait until you can respond with any substance to that first lot. I think I'll be waiting a while."

      First lot:"Numbers 31:17-18 17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
      =>In context the Midianites used sex to lure the Israelites into fornication in an attempt to turn them from God. Those who were part of the plot we killed. The virgins were not caught up in this Baal worship and free from bondage to lust and deceit. They were spared by the mercy of God.
      This applied to the Chosen Ones at that time only who needed to remain separate from the wicked sex filled culture of the Midianites.
      Since Christ we are to be in the world but not of the world and stay out of bondage by the power of the Holy Spirit. We are not to kill those trapped in sin but pray for their salvation.

      June 26, 2013 at 12:39 am |
    • Observer

      fred,

      "save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man"

      Yep. God wants the men to be free to r@pe the women. So much for God's version of the "sanct-ity of marriage". Lol.

      June 26, 2013 at 12:43 am |
    • fred

      Observer
      I had no idea how badly your soul is stuck in the evil of religious intolerance. You hypocrite using the excuse of moral relevancy for gay marriage yet twisting the Bible to pull applied mercy from 3,400 years ago forward into language and custom of today.
      You apply the extreme Taliban code taken out of context from the writing of Moses into modern society and say look how evil God is. Unfortunately some innocent believers may fall for your lies and twisting to cover your immorality and I want to warn you such evil will fall on your head.
      The text I referred to showed Gods extreme anger towards those who intentionally used deceit to bring down the innocent through sex. I say repent fast while there is still time.

      June 26, 2013 at 1:12 am |
    • Nice Try

      Commenter… I do indeed. And if you don't know the same then you're dumber than you look. LOL...

      June 26, 2013 at 3:32 am |
    • Nice Try

      Commenter… Secondly, you have no clue what I know. So you should speak of that which you have knowledge of…

      June 26, 2013 at 3:35 am |
    • Commenter

      Nice Try,

      You'd better get what you *know* about your alleged hell and Judgment Day doc.umented, verified and certified. Until then, you are considered to be a bloviating zealot.

      June 26, 2013 at 4:32 am |
    • james

      so Mr.gay or so happy about Lev. not goper; not so fast. Paul who was taught by Jesus in 1 Cor.6:9-11 explained that "neither fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, men kept for unnatural purposes, men who lie with men, thieves, etc...would inherit God's kingdom"; but there is help since it says "that is what some of you were" so repentance is required "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God" (2 beings for you trinity believers) also please keep that "born that way" to yourself, I know better. and I hope that helps.

      June 26, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • Bob

      I have already spoken to your "context" and interpretation issues. Read my comments about that more carefully. Really, read what I said, again, and this time, do try to understand instead of just blabbering your usual Christian nonsense at me. Heard all that cr@p before.

      Again, and from both evil testaments of your Christian book of nasty:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • Nice Try

      Bob.... Please stop copying and pasting your senseless babble all over the place. You're making yourself look silly....

      June 26, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • james

      one more time bob about the verses you are so hung up on. just know who he was talking to and about and how he was going to eliminate those who were doing the things that were so undesirable that he had to bring them to an end and the same principle will apply to this time and soon to come remember "big rats produce little rats" and as I said before it is coming soon and if I were you I would look closer at the mouse population you are associated with and stop parroting their literature and pagan worship. peace bob I would love to see you make the change.

      June 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • Ancient Chinese Secret

      james,
      "as I said before it is coming soon"

      I knew a guy who worked in a neighborhood where a new restaurant was being built. For months the sign in front read, "Coming Soon Chinese Restaurant". Even after it opened (with a real name), all the locals still say, "Oh, let's go eat at Coming Soon today.

      Your "coming soon" is just as laughable.

      June 26, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • james

      not an oriental bob? well that is just your opinion and I know all the comebacks but I would rather discuss the situation if you are serious and sincere but if not thanks for your story I have heard it before but not for a long time so it was good to see but the coming soon is not just in a book but all over this world and I do not ask anyone to sit back and wait but to keep busy and as Jesus taught pray for more workers in the field (Matt.9:37,38) if you do not know what that means and really do not care please move on, for those who do? thanks, peace, j

      June 26, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • fintastic

      Religious wack-a-loons arguring about what the bible really says.... the fairytale mythology book of pick and choose... pure comedy..

      June 27, 2013 at 8:55 am |
  19. Sam Yaza

    .. i still don't buy one crucial part of humanism; you know the one that HUMANS are "divine" the idea that HUMANS are some how superior to the other pants and animals. i know this idea is even shared by Christians; the whole Made in "His" image thing. to me life is divine and all life is equal humans are no greater or lesser the Plants, animals, Gods, or even "Demons" were all part of the Organism that is Life. ask your self if your left arm greater then your right? dexterity aside.

    yes i am aware that this ideology scares people; i mean, to think, a human no different then that chicken whose wing your stuffing in your mouth; perhaps showing some humility and severance to the Life your consuming is necessary. but i digress,..humanism and Christianity both douse not sit well with me i feel it comes from the same roman mind set that humans are removed from nature and thus superior.

    June 25, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @sam..........As far as nature is concerned, we're no different than the rest. It's survival of the fittest whether you're in the jungle or urban area. Lets face it we do make the rules. Some good some bad. Their are several species of animals that have been or are on the brink of extinction because of humans. So for better or worse we're on the top rung of the ladder.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I don't see my self as superior to plants and animals. I feel a connection based on the fact that we share the same DNA. The realization that I am stardust is awesome and humbling. I value humanity but see the interdependency among life forms. (except those nasty bacteria out to kill me, not too fond of them) Seeing humans reduced to servility because of some 2000 year old book irritates me to no end.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      just remember life can pull your card at any time,.. shes good at that.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      "Secular Humanist from Ohio"

      i rather agree.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I must admit I have the advantage of living in a globally rare ecological system with towering oak trees and oak savannahs, sand dunes, swamp forests, prairie lakes and 1/3 of Ohio's rare species. I has given me a deep appreciation for nature.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
    • Colin

      @Secular Humanist – I feel exactly the same way.

      June 25, 2013 at 8:27 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Which Colin?

      June 25, 2013 at 8:29 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      Secular Humanist from Ohio

      yeah i live living in the north coast

      the redwoods are just,.....

      June 26, 2013 at 8:02 pm |
  20. The Word is The Light!

    Revelation 4:11
    “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.”

    June 25, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      The God of all celestial creationism is not the God who creatively established all cellular chasms of atomized cosmologies we know of as being life forms. There lays the differences between the Celestial God and the subatomic Gods. One's deals with the most massive and all the others deal with the smallest of smallness. "Go Figure!"

      June 25, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Bob

      Indeed! To God be the glory!

      June 25, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
    • Science

      Past Brain Activation Revealed in Scans: Brain Activity Patterns Preserve Traces of Previous Cognitive Activity

      June 25, 2013 — What if experts could dig into the brain, like archaeologists, and uncover the history of past experiences?

      No fairy needed LL..............BUT ?

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130625121153.htm............and chad would be what a scrambled egg ?

      June 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • Ted

      The bible is an evil book that condones slavery. Shove your bible up your fat anus sideways.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:23 pm |
    • Bob

      Other Bob, since you are being a cafeteria Christian and dumping select bible bile on us from your Christian book of nasty AKA the bible, let's take a look at what's really in there. From both evil testaments:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 25, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Science,

      Holy brain spirits! Their auras will ever strengthen in ebbing and flowing ways.

      June 25, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Science,

      Holy brain spirits!

      June 25, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • Science

      LL.................you mean like Fester ?

      June 25, 2013 at 8:17 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NLTwZxghKw&w=640&h=390]

      June 25, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • Science

      Ok LL close..............but more in line with the light bulb wacky !

      June 25, 2013 at 9:02 pm |
    • james

      lionlylamb?, thanks, you're the greatest.

      June 25, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • Science

      Hey LL fossils work better.

      Primate fossil believed to be world's oldest discovered in China

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb8bORAz5Zo&w=640&h=390]

      June 25, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.