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June 27th, 2013
01:32 PM ET

Not all religious convictions are written in stone

Editor's Note: Rachel Held Evans is the author of "Evolving in Monkey Town" and "A Year of Biblical Womanhood." She blogs at rachelheldevans.com

By Rachel Held Evans, Special to CNN

(CNN) - There’s a misconception among many faithful folks that religious convictions, by their very nature, are set in stone.

People who change their minds are called flip-floppers or backsliders, accused of capitulating to culture and “conforming to the world.”

But some of the most recognizable names in the Christian story experienced changes of heart: Paul, Augustine, Martin Luther, C.S. Lewis and Madeleine L'Engle.

In my own life, questions and doubts have served as refining fires that keep my faith hot and alive and bubbling where certainty would only freeze it on the spot.

I’ve changed my mind about a lot of things—the age of the Earth, the reality of climate change, the value of women in church leadership, the equal failings of both the Republican and Democratic platforms to embody the teachings of Jesus.

Like a lot of evangelicals, I grew up in a religious environment that vilified LGBT people.

I remember attending a Christian conference in which liberals were derisively referred to as FOGS (friends-of-gays). I laughed along with the speaker, albeit nervously, dismissing the voice in my head reminding me that Jesus was ridiculed for his choice of friends, too.

Today, I am honored to be the friend of many LGBT people, and I celebrated along with them as Exodus International closed its doors and as the Supreme Court ruled the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional.

I know sometimes it seems like evangelical Christians are unyielding and unwilling to change, but as I scrolled through my Facebook feed this week, I saw a mixture of responses from my Christian friends — some joyful and some dismayed.

I noticed that several friends who had been at that very same conference so many years ago boasted red equal signs as their profile pictures.

In his book “Velvet Elvis,” Rob Bell writes:

“Times change. God doesn’t, but times do. We learn and grow, and the world around us shifts, and the Christian faith is alive only when it is listening, morphing, innovating, letting go of whatever has gotten in the way of Jesus and embracing whatever will help us be more and more the people God wants us to be.”

A person of conviction is not one who is unyielding to change, but one whose beliefs evolve based on new information, new movements of the Spirit, new biblical insights and, yes, new friends.

There’s a story in the New Testament about a Roman centurion named Cornelius, whose fear of God and care for the poor was widely known among the people.

After receiving a vision from God, Cornelius sends for the apostle Peter, who agrees to meet with him, even though it was forbidden for a Jew to associate with a Gentile.

Peter, an observant Jew, had been wrestling with the idea of including Gentiles in the church. But when he encounters the sincere faith of Cornelius, he is moved to declare, “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right!”

He tells the skeptical people who have gathered outside, “God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.”

Peter changed his mind, and the church would never be the same.

Despite deeply held religious convictions regarding circumcision and dietary restrictions, he led the way in opening the doors of the church to all who would enter, regardless of ethnicity, gender, socioeconomic status or religious background.

We can learn a lot from Peter — not only from his inclusiveness, but also from his willingness to change his mind.

Like Peter, God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. And that I should not think so highly of myself as to assume I’ve got this faith thing all figured out.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Rachel Held Evans.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Church • Culture wars • Faith • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Opinion • Politics

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soundoff (706 Responses)
  1. Bob

    "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
    Romans 3:23

    June 27, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • Austin

      the flesh is burden to be kept in check. God help us one and all.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Athy

      If we have all failed, then why even try? Why do you believe such nonsense? Can a person really be so brainwashed he can't think logically?

      June 27, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      I have made you sick and commanded you to be well. You are a bit of undeserving dust, surrounded in filth and shame, a wretched creature filled with sin and arrogance. I have made you and you have disobeyed me and are lucky to be alive. But fear not, for I have a plan just for you in mind.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Bob,

      What a stupid god - can't even create 'his' beings correctly.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Or 'he' created them defective on purpose - making 'him' quite evil.

      Good thing 'he' doesn't exist.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      d.enying or not k.nowing His truth doesn't n.egate the fact that h.omos3xuality practices have been handed down to all those that are willing FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION,

      Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the N.icolaitans, which I also hate.

      Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

      Amen.
      ______________________________________________________________________
      3531 // N.ikolaithv // N.ikolaites // n.ik-ol-ah-ee'-tace //

      from 3532 ; n pr m

      AV – N.icolaitans 2; 2

      N.icolaitans = "destruction of people"

      1) a sect mentioned in Re 2:6,15 , who were charged with holding the
      error of B.alaam, casting a stumbling block before the church of
      God by upholding the liberty of eating things sacrificed to idols
      as well as committing f.ornication

      June 27, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
  2. lol??

    My name has been hijacked by an admirererererer??

    BBBBwwwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha

    BBBBBBBBBBBwwwaaaaaaahahahahha

    Bbbbbbbwuh huh????

    June 27, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Athy

      Who in hell would want to use your name?

      June 27, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • lol??

      You can't stop those nasty Qweirdos in the NSA!!!

      Then the Qweirdos in the IRS say they ALWAYS WIN.!!!

      Ain't freedom wunnerful when you make it up as you go along??

      June 27, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
  3. lionlylamb

    Seek "first" the kingdom domains of God and then when you know its' whereabouts, come see me and we may know the domains of God's kingdoms together and proclaim God's kingdom domains as being where scripture tells one to look.

    June 27, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • Dippy

      Its'? Please, no apostrophe.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
  4. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    "The kind of people God wants us to be" – well, first off, no one has any idea what that might be. More importantly, the least virulent and intrusive belief systems admit that when they've obviously got it wrong, when it's just not working, they can revise freely and more closely approach what "God wants us to be." If you need this sort of crutch, consider tying your self-worth and sense of how you ought to be to some sort of ancestor veneration. You probably actually met some of your ancestors. Some may be living. Ancestors are real. And some of their opinons about how life ought to go may have some value, but you can take or leave any of it without fear.

    June 27, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Austin

      Tom, would you expect someone who knows something about God to be a perfect person?

      June 27, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, still babbling lies to write? We don't need you to rewrite His truth with lies of men.

      Revelation 2:6   But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

      Revelation 2:15   So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

      Amen.
      ______________________________________________________________________
      3531   //  Nikolaithv  //  Nikolaites   //  nik-ol-ah-ee'-tace  // 

      from   3532  ; n pr m

      AV – Nicolaitans 2; 2

      Nicolaitans = "destruction of people"

      1) a sect mentioned in Re 2:6,15 , who were charged with holding the
      error of Balaam, casting a stumbling block before the church of
      God by upholding the liberty of eating things sacrificed to idols
      as well as committing fornication

      June 27, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
  5. Over 40,000 sects of insanity

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over four million members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage. One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags". Many of these sects are equally divergent on the roles of women in society.

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri. Some believe the Pope is the Antichrist. Some believe Obama is the Antichrist.

    Some believe that celibacy is the only option for certain people, or for people in certain positions. Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but pretend not to understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease.

    Recently we learned from CNN of a child dying when their parents, members of a Christian sect in Philadelphia, as part of their faith, refused medical care. When incidents like the subject of this article come to light, many Christians are only too ready to try explain how another Christian's interpretation of ancient "scripture" is not quite right. Thirty one states have child abuse religious exemption laws. Faith healing churches have been linked to 2 dozen child deaths.

    Conflicted right from the start, Christianity has resulted in extreme divisions, with each division trying to assert itself as some true messenger of the word of the Christian God.

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (Thomas Jefferson, from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    June 27, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • Evil Heaven Sent

      Very well said and correct on all accounts.
      Kudos

      June 27, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Ohio has a religious exemption from testing and treatment for tuberculosis. It lets parents use “a recognized method of religious healing” instead of medical care for a child sick with tuberculosis.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Pergamos is the throne of satan where the lies came from that unbelievers believe.

      Revelation 1:11   Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

      Revelation 2:12   And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

      Amen

      June 27, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Salero21

      HeavenSent, now the hom.os will give you butt flu.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
    • Bob

      Since we've got HeavenStench dumping quotes at us yet again from her Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, it's time for you to make like a tree.

      Revelation 2:6   But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

      Revelation 2:15   So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

      Amen.
      ______________________________________________________________________
      3531   //  Nikolaithv  //  Nikolaites   //  nik-ol-ah-ee'-tace  // 

      from   3532  ; n pr m

      AV – Nicolaitans 2; 2

      Nicolaitans = "destruction of people"

      1) a sect mentioned in Re 2:6,15 , who were charged with holding the
      error of Balaam, casting a stumbling block before the church of
      God by upholding the liberty of eating things sacrificed to idols
      as well as committing fornication

      June 27, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Do gays still believe they were born that way? Now you're learning His truth who taught you through history that your mind is not your own. You were conditioned.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • Observer

      HeavenSent,

      Please list your educational background in psychology or your proven skills as a mind reader to give you ANY credibility when you claim you can read the minds of MILLIONS of gays who say they were born that way and you know they are all lying.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Heaven Sent,

      Have you ever fought against any gayness in yourself?

      June 27, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Observer, my life as I knew it got destroyed by unbelievers. Surviving their evil makes me an expert in how evil is condoned today.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      A Frayed Knot, I didn't get conditioned by destructive lies.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:38 pm |
    • Observer

      HeavenSent

      "Observer, my life as I knew it got destroyed by unbelievers. Surviving their evil makes me an expert in how evil is condoned today."

      As ALWAYS you are stumped by questions and INCAPABLE of answering them.

      Trying to claim that problems with a few nonbelievers means that you can claim that ALL nonbelievers are the same is the sign of a poor education. If not, all Christians can be claimed to be just like Fred Phelps.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Observer, such f.oolishness. You either b.elief His truth or you don't. The t.itle (or curtain) one hides behind is i.rrelevant.

      June 27, 2013 at 8:25 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Correction: that was suppose to be believed.

      June 27, 2013 at 8:27 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Believe minus the "d".

      June 27, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • Observer

      HeavenSent,

      Still STUMPED. Still no answer. Pathetic.

      June 27, 2013 at 8:31 pm |
  6. Evil Heaven Sent

    I am Evil Heaven Sent. I will respect other beliefs. I will tell them that they are accepted no matter what they believe in and treat them as people. I will tell them that it is okay not to believe in God as much as it is okay to believe in God. I won't quote the bible, I won't condemn others. I will treat you fairly and judge you based on how you treat me.
    Hear me!
    For I am Evil Heaven Sent!
    And I have a Goatee.

    June 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • Bob

      jboom, if only that were true. Unfortunately, like much of the Christian fable set, it is false, and we still are stuck with religion and its cadre of idiots.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • An honest bystander

      I can't give any credit to religion but to sit around in smug satisfaction due to your own philosophical opinions is just nauseating. When you call people idiots it doesn't make them look stupid so much as it makes you look like a creep.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      If you don't believe Jesus' truth, you then believe satan's lies. No doubt about that truth.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      HS
      Another lie. You forgot about at least one other possibility. Jesus and Satan do not exist, and that is the one that is most probable.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • OWL

      Richard Cranium,

      Winnie the Pooh described Heaven Sent's MO pretty well:

      "Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

      June 27, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
    • DUCK

      OWL,

      Watch for HS to counter with a Three Stooges' quote - or one from the Bible, with equal importance!

      June 27, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Evil Heaven Sent, not knowing to warn others about His truth is condemning others STUPS.

      June 27, 2013 at 8:32 pm |
  7. jboom

    Go figure ...
    McGrath of all people!

    Times Literary Supplement reviewer, trashing C.S. Lewis, mentions in passing that, by the way naturalism is dead

    http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/times-literary-supplement-reviewer-trashing-c-s-lewis-mentions-in-passing-that-by-the-way-naturalism-is-dead/

    June 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • Jerry

      Eventually, both you and religion will be dead and rotted away.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • jboom

      Christ did away with religion.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • Bob

      jboom, if only that were true. Unfortunately, like much of the Christian fable set, it is false, and we still are stuck with religion and its cadre of idiots.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
  8. Cpt. Obvious

    The bible can be interpreted and a religion based on it "dogmatized" that believes and does absolutely anything at all. You can find scriptures and scholars to support any action for any reason if you just try hard enough. I have no doubt that a person with the inclination and enough time and knowledge could make a very compelling case for atheists being the only true Christians.

    Because the bible does not provide any method for verifying any interpretation of it over any other interpretation, it is useless in providing any moral or social code. The believer is just projecting the self as god and putting for his own ideas as if they are from the almighty. Self-projection as god is easy, especially with the wealth of contradictory commandments and perspectives in the bible.

    June 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • jboom

      The moral code from the Bible does not come from the Bible alone and interpreted as a textbook.

      Consider how the Bible has always been used historically: it came from and was interpreted by a community.
      The Bible itself lends the picture. So does the continuity of Christian community from the beginning.

      Some fundie Christians will (wrongly) take isolated verses out of context or with an interpretatio that is foreign to the ancient community. Thats not right. And its not right for naturalists and non-believers to do it.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • Bob

      Note the comments in the following, regarding this issue of "context":

      First, from both testaments of the Christian book of nasty AKA the bible:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I stand by my original post. I'm just glad that most Christians have much, much better morals than their god. Most Christians would destroy (or not build in the first place) a pit of eternal fiery torture; most Christians would not kill 99.99% of all living things on earth to fix a problem (flood); most Christians would not hate a child and consider it evil before it was ever born (Esau/Romans9).

      Thank goodness that most Christians have much better morals than their god.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • jboom

      "taken out of context"

      Because you must treat the bible for what it is.

      Its not a self help book. Its not a catechism. Its not a science book. Its not a sociology book. Its not an instruction book.

      Its the sacred writings of the story of the salvation of mankind.

      Before you post such misleading comments and verses, you would be wise to understand the history of the church, how the Bible was written, for what purpose, and how the Church has used and applied the Bible.

      How the ancient church has interpreted the bible in the past.

      Its foolhardy and misguided to think someone can just pick up the book and begin point out passages to tell the Church what the Church believes. It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Church is and what the Church teaches – (and without change from all ages).

      June 27, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      I treat the bible exactly as what it is: a book of collected myths and fairy tales borrowed from the cultures and peoples around a group of goat herders who changed them and retold them and eventually wrote them down and then changed them some more and then left some out and then added more and then revised it all over again. A simple history of the making of the bible should clear all this up for anyone interested.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      STUPS Bob, what part of unbelief in biblical times as it is today do you not comprehend?

      June 27, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • Hike Muckabee

      HS you are tiresome.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
    • Bob

      Since we've got HeavenStench dumping quotes at us from her Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob is like a box of STUPS. STUPS is as STUPS does.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
  9. jboom

    ID challenges a reigning scientific paradigm.
    ID is not anti-science, it is rather anti-establishment.
    ID theorists want more scientific investigation, not less.
    They just want freedom to let the evidence lead to where it may, without philosophical restrictions.

    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/05/from_discoverin_5072541.html#sthash.hsujg7TT.dpuf

    June 27, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • Jerry

      correction, jboom: ID is non-science.

      There, fixed that for ya, stupid.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      ID is not anti-science. It's pseudoscience.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Nope. You're wrong. ID is not science, but a conclusion that does not concern itself with al the facts, but just those facts that those already biased towards ID think support the conclusion that they have already settled on.

      My suggestion is that supporters of ID become scientists with the goal of tearing down the theory of evolution and instead setting up a better theory of ID. Show a large enough problem with the theory of evolution or show how the theory of ID is correct through experiment and genetic data, and you'll be the most famous person on earth and win the Nobel prize and have the biggest platform imaginable to preach the gospel and set the record straight on evolution. Get to work.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • jboom

      Cpt.,
      There are numerous scientists who do recognize serious problems modern evolutionary theory explanatory power.
      And many of these scientists have openly and publicly become ID proponents.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Once again, jboom, you are incorrect. ID is not a science and no scientist is publishing work on ID because ID does not have a valid scientific hypothesis. ID does not offer a method that would prove or falsify the theory. There is no "ID science" because ID is a conclusion and not a working science. Most of the scientists that claim ID has some validity are not scientists who work in off-topic fields.

      Science deals with measurement. What can be measured to state that god does or does not exist? What can be measured to state that Intelligent Design is an accurate way to view the information? What test can we perform that continually offers solid evidence?

      June 27, 2013 at 6:08 pm |
    • Isaac

      “This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.” Newton

      Good post by jboom.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      jboom
      "There are numerous scientists who do recognize serious problems modern evolutionary theory explanatory power.
      And many of these scientists have openly and publicly become ID proponents."

      Any evidence to support those statements?

      June 27, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Isaac,

      A Frayed Knot
      Isaac Newton spent more time studying the occult than anything else – numerology and alchemy... making gold using the magic Philosopher's Stone. Keynes called him: "not the first of the age of reason, he was the last of the magicians."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_occult_studies

      Newton was smart, but not omniscient.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • jboom

      Ralph Seelke is a microbiologist at University of Wisconsin who has come out of the closet to publicly express support for ID:

      http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2006-08-24T09_58_27-07_00

      June 28, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • jboom

      Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig is a German geneticist who has come out of the closet to publicly express support of ID:

      http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/a_tall_tale_of_evolution_the_n003592.html

      June 28, 2013 at 12:35 am |
    • jboom

      Dr. Guillermo Gonzales, the world-renowned astrobiologist, also has come out of the closet.

      June 28, 2013 at 12:37 am |
    • jboom

      Paul Chien, biologist at the University of San Francisco, has come out of the closet.

      June 28, 2013 at 12:39 am |
    • jboom

      Henry Schaefer, quantum chemist at the University of Georgia has come out of the closet.

      June 28, 2013 at 12:40 am |
    • Wendell

      jboom has come out of the closet. He should have stayed in it.

      June 28, 2013 at 12:56 am |
    • jboom

      w,

      santa asked for evidence to support my statement
      "There are numerous scientists who do recognize serious problems modern evolutionary theory explanatory power.
      And many of these scientists have openly and publicly become ID proponents."

      June 28, 2013 at 1:07 am |
    • jboom

      John Sanford, genetic engineering scientist and professor of Horticulture has come out of the close in support of Intelligent Design. BTW, he was an atheist.

      June 28, 2013 at 1:10 am |
    • JBOOMstillLying

      Once again, jboom displays his lack of integrity....the following is from page 4 of the comments of this article...such a coward, jboom.

      *********

      So here is the jboom pattern:

      There are thousands of scientists...
      A much smaller percentage would disagree...
      ...of a lot of atheists...
      ...various ID researchers...
      I believe there is a long list there of researchers....

      Gosh, jboom, a little more specific?

      Then, in keeping with his consistent lack of integrity, he then blames others:

      "Thats an awfully broad brush you are painting with...."

      But jboom is an incarnation of the ID market and it's lack of character and integrity.

      However, in a spot of honesty, jboom confirms ID's true heart:

      ID...does not speculate on matters that pertain to religion.
      Its does not attempt to prove, or even offer evidence for any particular god or gods.

      Thank you for that...it confirms the level of lying that ID'ers ascend to and how you are woefully lost, jboom...you and all the cowards who hide behind "ID"...

      Your own scripture condems you:

      Matthew 10:33 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.".

      Thanks, jboom...your marketable "Christianity" fits well with the American culture you were born in to. Looks like the atheists will have some swimming companions there in the Lake of Fire....

      June 28, 2013 at 1:22 am |
    • JBOOMstillLying

      Your "precision" and your pot/kettle logic is reflective of the whole of ID philosophy and "research"...

      June 28, 2013 at 1:29 am |
    • JBOOMstillLying

      A horticulturist, jboom...REALLY? You warm my heart.

      June 28, 2013 at 1:30 am |
    • tallulah13

      http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CI/CI001_4.html

      "The point which discredits ID is not that it has few peer-reviewed papers, but why there are so few. ID proponents appear to have no interest in conducting original research that would be appropriate for peer-reviewed journals, and other researchers see nothing in ID worth paying attention to. Despite empty claims that ID is a serious challenge to evolution, nobody takes ID seriously as a science, so nobody writes about it in the professional literature. "

      June 28, 2013 at 1:31 am |
    • redzoa

      This would be an argumentum ad populum fallacy were it not for the fact that scientists practicing in the relevant disciplines and who are sympathetic to ID reflect such an insignificant minority. Apparently, jboom has never heard of "Project Steve":
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve

      June 28, 2013 at 1:38 am |
    • JBOOMstillLying

      @tallulah13,

      As with their religion, they are incapable of anything original. And as jboom stated, they are only interested in undermining evolution through their "research."

      And since science is all about falsifiability, they are on a fools errand.

      June 28, 2013 at 1:41 am |
    • jboom

      They just want freedom to let the evidence lead to where it may, without philosophical restrictions.

      June 28, 2013 at 2:15 am |
    • tallulah13

      jboom

      "They just want freedom to let the evidence lead to where it may, without philosophical restrictions."

      No, they simply want to misinterpret the work of others without actually providing evidence to support their own claims. Pseudoscience at it's worst, and lazy pseudoscience at that.

      June 28, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • maximo

      talluh,
      Could you please cite one example.

      June 28, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
  10. Bob

    Since we've got HeavenStench still dumping quotes on us from her Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
    18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    Leviticus 25
    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
    45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
    46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

    Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

    Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

    And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

    So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    June 27, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Oh NO!

      Say it's not true! Now I'm going to have to abandon all hope of an afterlife in any form and never again wear a short sleeve button down shirts.

      It won't be easy though the only thing I own is short sleeve button down shirts.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, you own your foolishness for not reading my answer. to your same post.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • Evil Heaven Sent

      Bob,
      Continue to spread the word of truth. This is your job and duty to the world. Be at peace. You are respected. Even those who disrespect you have a kernel of respect.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • Bob

      HeavenStench, you have yet to provide a valid response to my post. Note again what I have to say about context and interpretation. This time, read it carefully:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob has a problem with STUPS.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
  11. Secular Humanist from Ohio

    "Religious convictions etched in stone" – it's kind of silly really. Morality comes from humanity not from religion.

    June 27, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Morality is practiced by believers in God's truth. It's called living and abiding in His righteousness.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • Athy

      If you need religion to implement your morality, then have at it. Some weak-minded people just need it. I, for one, don't believe in god and I still have morality. Trying to convince you religies that there is no god could be dangerous. If you stop believing, what would become of your morality?

      June 27, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      1word said that he would murder if not for religion (very scary) , where is he anyway? Probably went back to some Christian forum where belief isn't questioned.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Athy, you wouldn't know anything for discussion if it weren't for Jesus' truth. What a stoonad.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:47 pm |

    • ScentedTissue: "you wouldn't know anything for discussion if it weren't for Jesus' truth."

      Let's check inside HS's mind and see how verification is performed:

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIj4rLYo0c&w=640&h=390]

      June 27, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • Athy

      Now I'm a stoonad? Hm. Should I thank you?

      June 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      No spot, Pavlove's theory was worked on you.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • Athy

      It's Pavlov, dummy. Your lack of intelligence is breathtaking.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Athy, c & p isn't what it used to be.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
  12. Great Article!

    This is a great post, and like another commenter indicated the cause of part of the problems in some cases, can be linked to translations, The biggest change of conviction I had was in understanding the original Greek and Hebrew translations:
    http://www.godswordtowomen.org/women_and_scripture.htm

    June 27, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
  13. A beautiful story

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpmLc8s4OWM&w=640&h=390]

    Why is this on the home page but not on the belief blog?

    June 27, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • Shiloh

      God bless you Jack Barr Jr., your wife and precious little Marley.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
  14. Dyslexic doG

    swapping posts with @Lycidas, who asked me what proof I would need to see to believe in any god.

    by proof I would gladly accept anything commensurate with what the bible and christians claim their god has done.

    it is claimes that he has created the universe and everything in it. How about moving a mountain from one side of a country to the other. smaller? How about appearing before the world and explaining himself? Surely he's not shy? smaller? how about healing an amputee? making a limb grow back. that can't be too hard for a god?

    bolts of lightning don't convince me. old made up stories don't convince me. chance occurrences that may or may not have happened anyway don't convince me.

    June 27, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      doG, pay attention to the 2nd reason in Revelation 21:8.

      Jesus said,

      Revelation 21:8

      But the f.earful, and u.nbelieving, and the a.bominable, and m.urderers, and w.horemongers, and s.orcerers, and i.dolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      Amen

      June 27, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain is also Lycidas

      June 27, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • *

      Uncouth Swain is also Lycidas,

      Yes, and "Mark" (NOT the Middle River one), and a few others... doesn't matter much really, though.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Bob

      Since we've got HeavenStench still dumping quotes on us from her horrid Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • Ummm..duh

      I've never hidden the fact that I use Uncouth Swain and Lycidas as names on here. Pick up a poetry book and learn something.
      Never used "Mark" before, so you that hide behind * and no names at all are just a little bit wrong. Not that will mean anything to you.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, post ad nauseum all you want. Doesn't change truth that I answered you.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • Webster's

      ad nauseam

         1. to a sickening or excessive degree – like "HeavenSent"

      June 27, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • *

      Lycidas,

      All right, I apologize if I got the "Mark" one wrong. I just seemed to remember a long-running discussion from maybe a couple of years ago (you and ? female poster), where she called you "Mark" a lot.

      Yeah, I'm @* today because there's too much name stealing going on and I don't feel like dealing with them.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @*- "All right, I apologize if I got the "Mark" one wrong. I just seemed to remember a long-running discussion from maybe a couple of years ago (you and ? female poster), where she called you "Mark" a lot."

      No worries, I think I remember who you are talking about. She was a wannabe blog detective that couldn't be told she was wrong. She wouldn't accept it.

      "Yeah, I'm @* today because there's too much name stealing going on and I don't feel like dealing with them."

      Totally understand that. That's why I switched to this name. Had a problem with a certain blog zombie yesterday that kept following me around like a puppy but adding nothing to the discussions at hand.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Webster's, whine somewhere else. Make like a tree while you're at it.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • John Stemberger

      Looks like HeavenSent is casting spells again....power in chanting words

      June 27, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      STUPS are as STUPS do.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
  15. William Demuth

    Tell Moses that.

    If they are divine providence, then by definition they are immutable eternal and absolute.

    That is why religions die, and rightfully so. We grow as a species and put aside the absurd.

    We need to cast away absurdities, not reinterpret them.

    The big three Abrahamic faiths are ridiculous nonsense from the dark ages of our race, and need to die

    The sooner the better.

    June 27, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      AMEN!

      June 27, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
    • Secular Humanist from Ohio

      Agrees. The self centered nature of humanity needs to come to an end.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Billy boy, put away His truth all you want. He's what counts, you babbling lies does you no good.

      Jesus said,

      Revelation 21:8

      But the f.earful, and u.nbelieving, and the a.bominable, and m.urderers, and w.horemongers, and s.orcerers, and i.dolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      Amen

      June 27, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • mama k

      More John of Patmos rubbish. He had to have ingested some poisonous weeds to come out with that mess. Leave it to ScentedTissue (queen of reading comprehension problems) to cling to the BS).

      June 27, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Bob

      Since we've got HeavenStench still dumping quotes on us yet again from her Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Revelation 1:9

      I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

      Amen.

      _________________________________________________________________

      3963   //  patmov  //  Patmos   //  pat'-mos  // 

      of uncertain derivation; n pr loc

      AV – Patmos 1; 1

      Patmos = "my killing"

      1) a rugged and bare island in the Aegean Sea

      June 27, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob. how many times do I have to tell you those scriptures are about unbelievers who don't know God's truth.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • Bob

      Since we've got HeavenStench still dumping quotes on us again from her Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, stup has nothing on you.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • Observer

      The Bible supports slavery no matter how much HeavenSent wants to pretend it doesn't.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:12 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Observer, I don't deny anything God does. You don't understand why He sanctioned slavery. It has to do with unbelief.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Observer

      HeavenSent

      "Observer, I don't deny anything God does. You don't understand why He sanctioned slavery. It has to do with unbelief."

      You CLAIM to read the Bible so give me the EXACT quote where God says he sanctions slavery to punish unbelief.

      I'll wait.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Observer, you're too easy. Pay attention to His 2nd reason after f.earful. .

      Jesus said,

      Revelation 21:8

      Jesus said,

      Revelation 21:8

      But the f.earful, and u.nbelieving, and the a.bominable, and m.urderers, and w.horemongers, and s.orcerers, and i.dolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      Amen.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
    • Bob

      Since we've got HeavenStench dumping quotes at us again from her Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, notice the 2nd reason He tells us in Revelation 21:8.

      But the f.earful, and u.nbelieving, and the a.bominable, and m.urderers, and w.horemongers, and s.orcerers, and i.dolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      Amen..

      June 27, 2013 at 8:37 pm |
  16. Bob

    Not all religious convictions are written or, for that matter, convicting.

    June 27, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
  17. This is Real Life

    A first aid instructor is teaching a class. The lecture is about how to react in an accident. She describes a horrific car crash in which a man sustains an injury causing rapid blood loss. She asks, "Class, how do you stop the bleeding?"

    A single hand is raised by an engineer in the back.

    Instructor: "Yes, you in the back, do you know?"

    Engineer: "Yeah, stop the heart."

    June 27, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Is that a microcosm of the Noah story?

      June 27, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
  18. Neo Atheist

    I've been told that I am going to hell because I don't believe in God enough times by enough people that I tend to think that Religious convictions are pretty much set in stone. I have known only two people who are very devout Christians who didn't look down on me for being an Atheist. One even came to my defense about my right to be an atheist when I was being attacked by a family member when I came out as an Atheist. Two out of the hundred or so Christians I have known over the years. A very low minority.

    June 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • Ricky

      If you are an atheist why would you even bother about a heaven or hell?

      June 27, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Neo Atheist

      You obviously didn't get the point of my post. I don't believe in neither of those places. But I have been told by enough people that I am going to hell, but only a few (2) accepted the fact that I don't believe.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Neo, your Christian friends didn't tell you what happens to unbelievers?

      Jesus said,

      Revelation 21:8

      But the f.earful, and u.nbelieving, and the a.bominable, and m.urderers, and w.horemongers, and s.orcerers, and i.dolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      Amen

      June 27, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • 33-1/2

      Someone put a couple of quarters on HeavenSent's head - her needle is stuck...

      June 27, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Bob

      Since we've got HeavenStench dumping quotes on us again from her Christian book of nasty, it's time to look again at what is really in her evil book of tall tales. From both testaments, and note carefully the comments within re context and interpretation:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 27, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Again Bob, how many times do I have to tell you those scriptures are about unbelievers who don't know God's truth.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
    • Evil Heaven Sent

      Bob,
      You are a true man of worth. Be at peace. For know that you are respected and treated well.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:45 pm |
    • Akira

      I love how atheists are compared to all sorts of heinous, immoral people. people. Similar to that asshole who compared gay people with those practicing pedophilia and bestiality.
      Neo atheist, chin up. Not all Christians are so judgmental.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Typical, liars backing up liars.

      Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

      Isaiah 5:20

      Amen.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Akira, truth hurt much? LOL

      June 27, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • mama k

      Truth, ScentedTissue? I haven't heard anything of substance from you yet, outside of a few quotes from Gullible's Travels.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      mama k, it's time for you to make like a tree.

      June 27, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
  19. Get your facts checked

    A) DOMA was not ruled unconst1tutional, only sec 3 was.

    B) Exodus shut down its 'cure' ministry .

    June 27, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • DM

      Why does constitution have a tit?

      June 27, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Marvin

      Title has a tit as well.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Darcy

      DOMA was ruled unconstutional in the way that counts: discrimination against gay couples. And Exodus changed its name, so yeah, IT SHUT DOWN. Get YOUR facts straight.
      If your marriage is strong, you won't need the givernment to defend it, will you, faithless one?

      June 27, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • Get your facts checked

      Don't care who has a t1t, the author is not thorough with her research or commentary.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "author is not thorough with her research or commentary"

      What the author of "A Year of Biblical Womanhood" (stunt writing) was not thorought with her research? Duh!

      Nevertheless she is right. The notion "that religious convictions, by their very nature, are set in stone" is, indeed, a misconception.

      I'd say it more strongly. It is patently obviously wrong. Morality is relative. That is Ms Held Evans point and she is right.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Darcy

      Again, when people think of DOMA, they think of the rampant bigotry that was authored into it by people who should have known better than to try to legislate something based on religion. And it was struck down.

      Exodus changed their name, so they have, if fact, closed down. Check YOUR facts better.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      The fact that Exodus International has shut down their "pray away the gay" programs is a huge step forward.

      Their implicit acknowledgement that 'prayer doesn't work' and that 'people are who they are' is monumental for this former tool of the bigoted religious right.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
  20. lol??

    mama k is tom? LOL!! moniker switcheroo cuz it got beat by fred SHAME SHAME!

    June 27, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • The real Tom

      My gosh, but you're stupid, lol. No, mama and I are not the same person.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      just like Jesus and God aren't the same person ...

      June 27, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • lol??

      SURE SURE!! reemerge as soon as you got found out LOL!! Should change the things you say you might say they are exactly the same!! baaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha

      June 27, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @lol?

      that's the same sort of logic that pervades your whole belief.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Science

      You a sock puppet too lol??......................all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ nothing else.

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/30/record-number-of-justices-attends-red-mass/comment-page-2/#comment-2439705

      June 27, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • mama k

      ScentedTissue (HS) is always accusing Tom of being someone else and more than once accused us of being the same person.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Science

      That god damn g factor aye lol??.................?

      And it is TAX FREE............?

      June 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • mama k

      And "beat by fred"??

      LOL. Right.

      June 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Science

      mama k

      The time stamp way to funny !

      June 27, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
    • A. Bargle

      Mama k isn't TRT.
      Speaking od lost people, where has Blessed Are The Cheesemakers, hawaii guest, Moby Schtick, 0G, Huebert, et al been? They've been conspi.cuously absent.

      And lolli, that wasn't the real fred today, either. You aren't a student of personalities, are you?

      June 27, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • lol?? also uses another moniker

      June 27, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, you have so many dummy handles to spew lies it's ridiculous to think all the unbelievers are as foolish as you.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • *

      HeavenSent,

      Actually, The real Tom does not have other 'handles'. We've caught *you* in several others though, you know...

      June 27, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • mama k

      Yeah – I've never read something from fred that was ever quite like that.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "Speaking od lost people, where has Blessed Are The Cheesemakers, hawaii guest, Moby Schtick, 0G, Huebert, et al been? They've been conspi.cuously absent."

      No and it's not all that surprising.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Spot, Ad nauseum all you want. It's useless against His truth.

      June 27, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom's a BAITER, which makes all his dummy handles BAITERs too. LOL

      June 27, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I however, am the MASTER of all BAITERS.

      June 27, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phoney heavensent (cough Tommy Tom) not only do you not know what a BAITER is, BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE, YOU DON'T CARE enough to care. LOL

      June 27, 2013 at 8:43 pm |
    • Science

      HS ................is full of HS which = BS .

      June 27, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Science, when you open your mouth you reveal yourself. In this case, what you post.

      June 29, 2013 at 8:16 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Science, don't go away mad. Just go away and stalk someone else.

      June 29, 2013 at 8:18 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.