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Conservatives brace for `marriage revolution'
Conservative Christians say their churches have been unprepared for cultural shifts on same-sex marriage.
June 28th, 2013
06:19 PM ET

Conservatives brace for `marriage revolution'

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - With its ivy-covered entrance and Teddy Bear bouquets, Arlene’s Flowers seems an unlikely spot to trigger a culture-war skirmish.

Until recently, the Richland, Washington, shop was better known for its artistic arrangements than its stance on same-sex marriage.

But in March, Barronelle Stutzman, the shop’s 68-year-old proprietress, refused to provide wedding flowers for a longtime customer who was marrying his partner. Washington state legalized same-sex marriage in December.

An ardent evangelical, Stutzman said she agonized over the decision but couldn’t support a wedding that her faith forbids.

“I was not discriminating at all,” she said. “I never told him he couldn’t get married. I gave him recommendations for other flower shops.”

Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson disagreed, and filed a consumer protection lawsuit against Arlene’s Flowers. The ACLU also sued on behalf of the customer, Robert Ingersoll, who has said Stutzman’s refusal “really hurt, because it was someone I knew.”

Among conservative Christians, Stutzman has become a byword - part cautionary tale and part cause celebre.

Websites call her a freedom fighter. Tributes fill Arlene’s Facebook page. Donations to her legal defense fund pour in from as far away as Texas and Arkansas.

“For some reason, her case has made a lot of people of faith worry,” said Stutzman’s lawyer, Dale Schowengerdt of the Alliance Defending Freedom, a conservative legal group.

Those anxieties have only increased, conservative Christians say, since the Supreme Court struck down part of the Defense of Marriage Act and opened the door to gay marriage in California.

Taking a line from Justice Antonin Scalia's sharp dissent, Southern Baptist scholar Albert Mohler said it’s only a matter of time "before the other shoe drops" – and the high court legalizes same-sex marriage from coast to coast.

“Christians will have to think hard — and fast — about these issues and our proper response,” Mohler wrote on Wednesday.

“We will have to learn an entire new set of missional skills as we seek to remain faithful to Christ in this fast-changing culture.”

His fellow Southern Baptist Russell Moore put the matter more succinctly.

“Same-sex marriage is coming to your community.”

`The debate is over'

Well before the Supreme Court’s rulings, many conservative Christians said they saw the writing - or the poll numbers - on the wall.

Survey after survey shows increasing support for same-sex marriage, especially among young Americans. That includes many religious believers.

Most Catholics and mainline Protestants, not to mention many Jews, support same-sex relationships, according to surveys. The bells of Washington National Cathedral pealed in celebration on Thursday.

Even among those who oppose gay marriage, many think it’s a losing battle.

Seventy percent of white evangelicals believe that legal recognition for gay nuptials is inevitable, according to a June poll by the Pew Research Center, though just 22 percent favor it.

“The gay marriage debate is over,” said Jonathan Merritt, an evangelical writer on faith and culture. “Statistically, all the numbers move in one direction.”

Young Christians have grown up in a far more diverse culture than their forebears, Merritt noted, and many have befriended gays and lesbians.

Pew found that more than 90 percent of Americans overall personally know someone who is gay or lesbian, a 30 percent increase since 1993.

“It’s far easier to wage war against an agenda than it is to battle a friend,” Merritt said.

At the same time, many conservative young Christians say they’re weary of the culture wars, and of seeing their communities labeled “judgmental.”

When Christian researchers at the Barna Group asked Americans aged 16-29 what words best describe Christianity, the top response was “anti-homosexual.” That was true of more than 90 percent of non-Christians and 80 percent of churchgoers, according to Barna.

Tired of being told the country is slouching toward Gomorrah, many young Christians have simply tuned out the angry prophets of earlier generations, evangelical leaders say.

“The shrill angry voices of retrenchment are no longer getting a broad hearing either in the culture at large or in the evangelical community,” Merritt said.

But the battle over same-sex marriage is far from over, said Brian Brown, president of the National Organization for Marriage.

“I don’t believe most Christians are going to give up the fight,” said Brown, who is Catholic. He said his movement includes many young evangelical and Orthodox Christians.

“And they are more energized than ever.”

Love thy gay neighbors

Energized or not, conservative Christians must prepare for the moral dilemmas posed by the country’s growing acceptance of same-sex marriage, said Moore, the new president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.

“Is Your Church Ready for the Marriage Revolution?” Moore asked, while promoting a special session on homosexuality at the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting in Houston in June.

Many evangelical pastors have seen homosexuality as a distant culture-war battle that’s fought far from the doors of the churches, Moore said.

Now, it’s as close as their front pews.

“I think it’s not so much that churches haven’t wanted to talk about it,” he said, “but they haven’t recognized how much the culture has changed around them.”

The first step, said Moore, is learning to defend traditional marriage without demonizing gays and lesbians.

Walking through Washington’s Union Station last Thursday, Moore said he saw several lesbian couples kissing in celebration of the Supreme Court rulings.

“If we can’t empathize with what’s going on in their hearts and minds, we’re not going to be able to love and respect them.”

Then come a host of secondary questions: How should conservative pastors minister to same-sex couples? Should Christians attend same-sex weddings? Should florists like Barronelle Stutzman's agree to work with gay couples?

`Don't give in' 

Florist Barronelle Stutzman.

In the 17 years she’s owned Arlene’s Flowers, Stutzman said, she’s worked with a number of gay colleagues.

“It really didn’t matter if they were gay, or blue or green, if they were creative and could do the job,” she said.

Stutzman suspects that some of her eight children privately don’t agree with her on homosexuality, even as they publicly support her decision.

Online, Stutzman has been called a bigot, and worse.

She said she’s lost at least two weddings because of her refusal to provide services for the same-sex marriage.

Conservative activists say her case is the first of what will surely be many more, as gay marriage spreads across the country.

As she gets ready to face a judge, the silver-haired florist offered some advice for fellow evangelicals.

“Don’t give in. If you have to go down for Christ, what better person to go down for?”

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Baptist • Belief • Christianity • Church • Culture wars • Discrimination • Faith • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Homosexuality • Politics • Religious liberty • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (5,210 Responses)
  1. lol??

    You're gonna regret playin' around with mixing inter-specie DNA. Sounds like bestiality to me. It's like bringin' Asian carp to N america.

    June 29, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Filthy Hind I love to Mithrism lick and talk Islam bunk

      Why is that ? Your god had Adam try out bestiality. When your stupid god didn't know, but discovered later. that "it was not good for the man to be alone", he had Adam try out all the animals and birds, "but none PROVED to be a suitable partner for the man". (Genesis 2:20)

      June 29, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • lol??

      EEeeeewwwwwwww, and you kinda added a few of yer own words.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
  2. runningtowin

    I'm glad she took a stand for what she thought was right.

    June 29, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Damocles

      Gosh me too! I'm glad she took a stand for discrimination.

      Moron.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • Doobs

      Would you say the same thing if she denied service to an interracial couple? An African American couple?

      June 29, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • tallulah13

      So you're okay with breaking the law if you don't like that law? So if someone runs a red light and totals your car, you'd be okay with that if the driver really didn't believe that he should have to stop?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Hi

      Would you say the same thing if she denied service to a KKK wedding? A Taliban wedding? Flowers for a NAMBLA convention?

      June 29, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
  3. Bostontola

    Here's the thing:

    Every time science has been wrong, it has been corrected by better science. The world remains scientifically explained.

    Every time religion has been wrong, it had to be brought along kicking and screaming with a trail of dead bodies. Religion was left less complete.

    All that is left for religion is morality, get out of the explaining the physical world business.

    June 29, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • actually

      atheists have brutally tortured and murdered more innocent people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Colin

      Exactly. And this is how all Christian theology develops and evolves. It is all made up. To the extent church theologians “research” an issue, they simply look to the writings of earlier theologians who made something up. To the extent those earlier theologians researched anything, they looked to the writings of even earlier theologians who made something up. But at some point, no matter how far back we go, no matter how many theologians we pass through and no matter how honest, intelligent, pious or well lettered the original propagator of the idea was, at some point it is simply made up. Fabricated, albeit with the best of intentions and with the complete self-confidence that the fabrication is correct.

      This is why they are still debating the same bullsh.it they did 2,000 years ago and why one can never build on religious doctines. Thet are never tested and leave us nothing. Medecine, engineering, physics, they all provide a foundation upon which subsequent work can proceed. Religion doesn't. The elevator of science ascends at an ever increasing pace. Religion is left in the basement chasing its own tail and sniffing its own backside.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      actually
      The christians first off have killed far more, ever hear of your brother in christ, Hitler?
      There were some atheists that have killed, but it was not because of atheism...it was for politcal reasons to control the people. They felt they had to control the people, and religions needed to be removed to do that. It wasn't the atheist vs religion as the prime motivation, but the political reasons.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Vic

      All Branches of Modern Science were founded by Christians!
      All the Founders of the United States of America were Christians!
      All US Presidents have been Christians!
      All Members of Congress have been Christians! (one or two exceptions are ONLY recent!)
      The vast majority of Americans are Christians!
      The Largest Faith in the World is Christian!

      and the list goes on and on and on ...

      June 29, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Vic, please list what you consider to be branches of modern science.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • Colin

      Yes Vic, and they all had star signs, does that give astrology credibility? Yo ucan't put a person neatly into one camp or another when it comes to the thinking that drives religion or science. The vast majority of people (indeed everybody but atheists) employ both ways of thinking in different aspects of their lives. People who think with reason and logic switch it off the minute they walk into a church and accept the silliest, most fantastic of stories without a shred of evidence to back them up. It is this latter way of thinking that adds nothing.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Vic
      Yes I'm sure your flawed list of lies does go on and on.
      Most branches of both science and mathematics are based on knowledge older than your bible, from before the stories of previous gods were morphed into your christianity, so in reality what you are saying is all was based on mithra and horus.

      Why do you keep posting ridiculous false statement after ridiculous false statement?

      June 29, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Vic, in fact, has no facts!

      Let's start from the top:

      False
      False
      False

      ... uhhhh, why continue?

      June 29, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • Damocles

      @sara

      Alchemy, voodoo, astrology, tea leaves and magic 8-balls.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • factchecker.org

      "Vic" is, in fact, a "drive-by" liar!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Damocles,

      "Alchemy, voodoo, astrology, tea leaves and magic 8-balls"

      lol...he'll have to come back with a listsomething like that. His best bet is to assume "modern" sciences are those that existed about 400 years ago and then carefully ignore any Jewish scientists involved. If you pick your "important" era with enough bias, and ignore all that went before and the numerous branches founded, mostly by atheists, in just the last century, you might make a case. Look silly and ignorant, but make a case.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Really-O?

      I think Vic's June 29, 2013 at 11:03 am post puts to rest the "Vic = Chad" hypothesis; even Chad would stop-short of most of Vic's brazenly ridiculous assertions.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Really-O?

      @Saraswati –

      One word...Hippocrates.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Not all U.S. Presidents were Christians.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • Filthy Hind I love to Mithrism lick and talk Islam bunk

      Vic
      85% of the National Academy of Science are atheists.
      You lose.
      The Treaty of Tripoli explicitly stated this country was in way founded on Christianity, BY THE FOUNDERS.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Vic

      I was put something else together but oh..wow..look what I found: a site from New Zealand!

      Out of <professional curtsy, I delegate this part of the answer to that site:

      http://www.christianity.co.nz/science4.htm

      Let's all check it out!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • Vic

      I was putting something else together but oh..wow..look what I found: a site from New Zealand!

      Out of <professional curtsy, I delegate this part of the answer to that site:

      http://www.christianity.co.nz/science4.htm

      Let's all check it out!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • factchecker.org

      You're way behind, Vic! You, in fact, have already been caught in a bunch of falsehoods!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Yes, it's trial and error until science uncovers His truth.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • Really-O?

      @Vic –

      One word...Hippocrates. And, using "christianity.co.nz" as your supporting reference, really? Come to think of it, that is something Chad would do. Hmm...

      June 29, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent, in fact, doesn't realize that science has no interest in fairy tales!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Vic

      I was putting something else together but oh..wow..look what I found: a site from New Zealand!

      Out of professional curtsy, I delegate this part of the answer to that site:

      http://www.christianity.co.nz/science4.htm

      Let's all check it out!

      Just in case you missed it:

      In his very helpful book, What If Jesus Had Never Been Born, D. James Kennedy gives a list of some of the outstanding Bible-believing scientists who gave the lead in founding the following branches of science. This list is worth repeating:

      Antiseptic Surgery Joseph Lister
      Bacteriology Louis Pasteur
      Calculus Isaac Newton
      Celestial Mechanics Johannes Kepler
      Chemistry Robert Boyle
      Comparative Anatomy Georges Cuvier
      Dimensional Analysis Lord Rayleigh
      Dynamics Isaac Newton
      Electronics John Ambrose Fleming
      Electrodynamics James Clerk Maxwell
      Electromagnetics Michael Faraday
      Energetics Lord Kelvin
      Entomology of Living Insects Henri Fabre
      Field Theory James Clerk Maxwell
      Fluid Mechanics George Stokes
      Galactic Astronomy Sir William Hershel
      Gas Dynamics Robert Boyle
      Genetics Gregor Mendel
      Glacial Geology Louis Agassiz
      Gynaecology James Simpson
      Hydrography Matthew Maury
      Hydrostatics Blaise Pascal
      Ichthyology Louis Agassiz
      Isotopic Chemistry William Ramsey
      Model Analysis Lord Rayleigh
      Natural History John Ray
      Non-Euclidean Geometry Bernard Riemann
      Oceanography Matthew Maury
      Optical Mineralogy David Brewster

      However, over the last 150 years the gap between science and Christianity has widened. The causes of this are many: science's share in the increased secularisation of Western society; prejudices and misunderstandings on both sides of the fence; the trend of increasing reductionism in science (reducing subjects to their ultimate units as in quantum mechanics and molecular biology) and so missing out on the bigger picture – to name a few.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      factchecker, cough Tommy Tom, seek professional help for why you need to stalk me while using dummy handles.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Vic – "All Branches of Modern Science were founded by Christians!"

      Posting a list of scientists who may or may not have been Christians (and it's irrelevant) does not support your claim that "All Branches of Modern Science were founded by Christians!" I was quickly able to find several on your list who, while scientists and, probably, Christians, are not "founders" of any "branch of modern science".

      You failed. Accept it.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Really-O?, scientists didn't pull concepts of what to search out of thin air. It's because of Jesus Christ that they search to uncover His truth. Meanwhile, you believed you derived from apes scratching their b-ts and wrote nothing, did nothing except swing from branch to branch.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • What IF

      Heaven Sent & Vic,

      Your "God/Jesus" character sounds like 'he' is:

      - Very stupid to not be able to communicate effectively to *everyone*. 2/3rds of the world does not believe your legend.

      - An evil trickster, casting ambiguous trails of breadcrumbs (for what 'he' knows are hapless travelers); with some trails leading right over a cliff.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Many branches of mathematics were founded by muslims. Does that mean that Islam is correct?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Professional curtsy?

      "A gesture of respect or reverence made chiefly by women by bending the knees with one foot forward and lowering the body."

      I didn't know that there was actually a professional version.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Vic, most sciences began at a time when a person could be ostracized or even criminally prosecuted for lack of belief. Western society has spent much of the last 2000 years under the thumb of religion. It was politic to claim christianity, no matter what an individual actually believed.

      And in the end it doesn't matter. Science builds on the previous generations. The scientists are secondary to the science. Any science that doesn't hold up to scrutiny is dismissed, period. Religion has never been able to make that claim.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Vic

      professional courtesy

      I realized the wrong spell checker pick too late and decided to ignore it. Sorry about that!

      June 29, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
  4. Colin

    To HeavenSent, lol??, lionlylamb and ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION. Once again, you are wasting your time asking me questions and trying to engage me. I never, ever answer you for the simple reason that you are all batsh.it crazy.

    This is not meant as an insult, I am not trying to be mean. I am making an observation based on the data I have. You are all barking mad. Fvcking crazy. So, please, save yourself the effort, I will not answer you or engage with you. I might as well try and argue quantum physics with a corgi.

    Go away.

    June 29, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Colin

      What will you do about your sin?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • Colin

      @other Colin. There is no such thing as siin. You might as wel lask me what I will do about my "pet ghost."

      June 29, 2013 at 10:59 am |
      • CatherineG

        Duelling colins.

        August 27, 2013 at 3:37 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      One would have to believe in sin and acknowledge himself to be sinful for your question to have any meaning, Colin(2).

      June 29, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Colin, you're in denial to think we have anything to do with your decisions in life, Tom.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Tom Colins? HeavenSent is, in fact, confused!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Multiple Sybils backing up the lies of Sybil. LOL too funny, yet sad.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • factchecker.org

      What is sad is a liar who has been caught lying many times on the Belief Blog; who continues to lie and can never back up its claims; and in a cowardly manner hides behind its unfounded claims. That is, in fact, "HeavenSent"!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, and all your dummy handles wouldn't know His truth. Too clouded by satan's lies.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Sorry, HeavenSent, fairy tales won't help with your paranoia; they won't help you fully understand current knowledge! We also know they contribute to your diarrhea of lying!

      June 29, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Again factchecker, cough Tommy Tom, seek professional help for why you need to stalk me while using dummy handles.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • Science

      ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news and science breakthroughs - updated daily

      Hey chavic.................what does Rachel say about you 2 timing with VIC ?

      Origin of Life News

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/fossils_ruins/origin_of_life/

      June 29, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      factchecker Tommy Tom, no matter how many dummy handles you conjure up to support your lies. Fact is, you're a lying BAITER who's big ego made you the pathetic person you are today. Go humble as Jesus told us, and you too can know His truth and escape being enslaved by satan's lies.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Not the real HS. Fake, fake, fake.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
  5. CommonSense

    The scariest thing you could hear from someone you love: "I love you because God loves you."

    June 29, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • Saraswati

      Lol..that'd be the end of any relationship I had, unless maybe it was a symptom of an elderly relative's dementia. Yep...scary. I can't believe people would put up with that.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:56 am |
  6. Colin

    I love it when a believe confidently declares that they believe in (their) god because science cannot definitively explain something to their satisfaction, such as the origins of the Universe. Their logic makes me laugh. They say "you can't explain the origins of the Universe" and then fill the gap with their god by saying "therefore (my) godf made it and he always existed. Problem solved.

    But, of course, that solves nothing. All they have done is answered nothing. They could just as easily said the Universe was "always there." God is an unnecessary add on. A stop gap measure. In fact, God is not an answer for anything. It is a cop out, a shrug of the shoulders. When we attributesomething we don't understand to "God" all we have done is put a halo on a question mark and cowered away from the challenge.

    June 29, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Colin, the evolution lie allows sinners to stay in denial.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • Bostontola

      Colin,
      It's also a bit hypocritical. They don't understand how a computer and communication network works but they use it. Computers and networks come from stem not prayer.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • oOo

      Exactly.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • The real Tom

      Boston, you'd better explain "stem" to HS. It isn't very bright.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • Bostontola

      HeavenSent,
      Is gravity a lie?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • factchecker.org

      As always, HeavenSent, in fact, has no facts for its crazy claims.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Saraswati

      Anything I can't explain indicates I'm a superior being from the real universe tripping on superbeing drugs.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • factchecker.com

      As always heaven sent brings pertinent facts to the forefront

      June 29, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • The real Tom

      Of all things, gravity is something HS couldn't possibly deny. Big butts don't float.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • Colin

      And what will you do about your sin?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • The real Tom

      What will you do about yours? Bearing false witness is one of the biggies.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Bostontola, gravity was written in scriptures thousands of years before Newton tested the apples. He knew how to do the test due to Jesus Christ's truth in the Bible.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Watch out for fake "fact checker".

      HeavenSent, in fact, continues to lie. After all, it's the biggest liar on the Belief Blog!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • HeavenSent

      factchecker, you'd know which scripture told us about gravity if you had eyes to see His truth.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      HS, The bible may note that the earth, moon, sun, etc. are connected – that's a long way off of explaining gravity. Remember for centuries religion held a geo-centric view and punished anyone who said otherwise; if they didn't understand that then they didn't understand gravity.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Damocles

      @heavenscent(smells like peanut butter and dog saliva)

      Strange that you, the bible quote machine gun, can not come up with some gravity scripture.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent, in fact, always hides behind "His truth" when it can't support ANY of it's claims!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • The real Tom

      Heavensent knows about gravity because it makes it hard for her to get out of the tub.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Tom
      I'm going to have to go against you on that one...I think it is highly likley that HS does not know what a tub is.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • Damocles

      @the real tom

      Great! I'm picturing this oozing, gelatinous mass of tissue feebly kicking its half-formed flippers as it desperately tries to escape the tub.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • Really-O?

      @The real Tom – "...it makes it hard for her to get out of the tub."

      I swear there is a pot of gold waiting for you in the entertainment industry. I suspect the Farrelly brothers and, perhaps, Stewart would pay handsomely for your turn of phrase.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, now I KNOW what's wrong with you. PLAYING in traffic is hazardous to your well being.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:38 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Is HeavenSent attempting humor?

      June 29, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Really O,

      2 Peter 2:18

      For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

      Amen.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Ah, HeavenSent now resorts to its usual mode of inquiry, validation and verification:

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIj4rLYo0c&w=640&h=390]

      June 29, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • Really-O?

      @HeavenSent –

      "The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

      Bertrand Russell. Mortals and Others

      June 29, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Really-O?, no matter how many times they call you sunny, it will never make you bright.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent obviously misses the opportunity it had to join the Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co., but it didn't do so well at the training sessions!

      June 29, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @HeavenSent – "no matter how many times they call you sunny, it will never make you bright."

      Folksy, but I like it.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Really-O?, that was used before 1970 if you can research it today.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Doobs

      Bostontola, gravity was written in scriptures thousands of years before Newton tested the apples.

      Isaac Newton didn't test apples. He wondered why an apple always falls perpendicular to the ground, thus inspiring his theory of gravitation.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doobs, he still took the concept from Jesus' truth because he was a Christian that read the Bible.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • Science

      No god(s) test.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
  7. Observer

    HI,

    When God got done with his killing spree, he had killed EVERY pregnant woman, child, baby, and fetus on the face of the earth.

    Nice guy.

    June 29, 2013 at 10:32 am |
    • The real Tom

      Yabbut, "God LOVES you." That's what they all claim.

      It cracks me up-they were evil and would "destroy the world." So god beat them to it.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Colin

      How does righteous judgement become a "killing spree" ? Try telling a Texas judge that the 500th execution of a Texas criminal amounts to a "killing spree". I've never heard anything as insane as this idiot observer. God is the final Judge and God has exercised His righteous judgement. So what!

      June 29, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • HeavenSent

      To be pregnant with child means to believe in false gods/religions.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • Observer

      Colin

      "How does righteous judgement become a "killing spree"

      What were the sins of the children, babies and FETUSES that justified MURDERING them?

      Wake up! Get real.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • Damocles

      @heavenscent(smells like week old cabbage soup)

      Da fvck are you talking about?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Colin

      It is recorded in testament that all thoughts were continually evil. Evidence presented, verdict issued, sentence carried out. That is the Law. Don't like it? Tough, you will face the same Judge and you freely admit you know what the penalty will be. Get used to it.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Observer, who do you think you're kidding? You are pro-abortion to allow the killing of children.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • CommonSense

      The scariest thing you could hear from someone you love: "I love you because God loves you."

      June 29, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, your lies from dummy handles to back up your lies is ridiculous.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • The real Tom

      HS is just trolling. It doesn't believe a word it's typing.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Colin

      Observer
      What will you do about your sin?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • Damocles

      @CS

      No, no, the scariest thing to hear is 'I'm going to love you like my deity loves people'. At that moment you should run reeeaaallly fast because that person is going to try and murder you.

      Wait, wait, come back! These bullets I'm tossing at you with the help of this gun are only meant to show my love for you! Why are you running?!

      Let's play loveflood... you lay down in a tub full of water and I hold you down until you can't take the love anymore! Fun, right?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      What is sin, Colin?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Colin

      Don't ask questions you already know the answer to. What will YOU do about YOUR sin?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Damocles

      @dumbcolin

      The judge reached that descision after a trial. Was there a trial? Who was the defense attorney? What evidence was brought to bear? Who spoke for all the unborn children that died in the flood with their mothers?

      June 29, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • factchecker.org

      This Colin is, in fact, all uptight because it believes in fairy tales!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The fairy tale of evolution allows sinners to deny their sins.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent, in fact, can't support any of its claims! If there was a Belief Blog liar's club, it would be the President! (But it would obviously need a very keen administrative assistant.)

      June 29, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom. you should seek professional help for why you need to constantly stalk me.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
  8. lol??

    Pre-flood genetics of the race was corrupted by the Nephilim to try and thwart the coming of the promised seed. Almost succeeded. This time around they are not needed with plenty of human volunteer Drs. Frankensteins.

    Telling the end from the beginning

    June 29, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • The real Tom

      More like telling tales of topographic oceans. Keep yapping, little doggie.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:31 am |
    • Science

      Hey lol??.................goofy = LOL

      Sequencing ancient calcified dental plaque shows changes in oral microbiota with dietary shifts of the Neolithic and Industrial revolutions

      http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v45/n4/abs/ng.2536.html

      June 29, 2013 at 10:40 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, the river is called the Nile, not d'nile.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • The real Tom

      HS = senile troll.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Filthy Hind I love to Mithrism lick and talk Islam bunk

      The Nephilim were the "sons of god". Seriously, you never read your Babble.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The Nephilims weren't born of woman. How could they be sons of God.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
  9. Henry Plantagenet

    Anybody who doesn't think the flower lady is guilty, should open their eyes and see where it leads: "No colored people served. No Irish need apply. Juden verboten." Discrimination in consumer services is illegal - we settled that 50 years ago. Of course we settled voting rights and abortion long ago, and now we're being forced to fight those battles all over again, forced by the same idiots like the flower lady. Because Stupid Never Dies.

    June 29, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • Saraswati

      Stupid might die a little if we continued to evolve toward more complex brains, but barring that we're looking at spotty and unreliable advances. We humans just aren't that bright.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:00 am |
  10. lol??

    Modern science wants the world to see with ancient eyes.That's progress?? It's actually copycattin' scripture.

    June 29, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • factchecker.org

      lol?? is, obviously, a very confused individual.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • lol??

      Again from the cheerleaders at wiki:

      "Evolutionary thought, the conception that species change over time, has roots in antiquity, in the ideas of the ancient Greeks, Romans, and Chinese as well as in medieval Islamic science."

      June 29, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • chubby rain

      1) Science isn't dependent on when/where/how an idea originates, only the evidence which overwhelming supports the Theory of Evolution through Natural Selection. The advent of modern genetics has provided databases full of information that supports the current theory.

      2) It seems like you don't have any trouble worshiping other antiquated views for a similar time period...

      June 29, 2013 at 10:36 am |
    • Science

      Hey lol??....................?...............^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?

      DNA tests reveal Prince William's Indian ancestry

      By Peter Wilkinson, CNN

      updated 12:48 PM EDT, Fri June 14, 2013

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/world/europe/britain-prince-william-india/?iref=obnetwork

      June 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
  11. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things,

    June 29, 2013 at 10:04 am |
    • HeavenSense

      Hi Prayerbot.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      More lies from the prayerbot. WHy do you keep violating the 9th commandment?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:07 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Both claims are, in fact, false.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • as always

      fact checker is wrong

      June 29, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Sock puppets such as "as always" are, in fact, without facts.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      as always is wrong...see how simple it is to say no, when you don't actually say anything to refute it.
      God is the one that is not healthy for children and other living things. The storybook tells you of when god wiped out all of the children and other living things.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • Hi

      Prayer and meditation are a great way to seek God.

      I promise you, if you honestly want to know God you can find him. And not the American way. God's way. It is better. You don't need a PhD. Just willingness and humility.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • Hi

      In Genesis flood story, human beings were so wicked they were going to destroy themselves and the world without God.

      And God provided a way out of that destruction. You wouldn't be here today if He hadn't intervened and provided a plan for Noah.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • as always

      richard cranium is wrong

      June 29, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • Damocles

      @hi

      Sooo... the deity's awesomely brilliant plan to stop the humans from killing themselves was to kill all the humans??

      Wait for it.....

      Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.... *catching my breath* ....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

      Perhaps your handle should be high.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • Science

      and the sock puppets come out aye chad at the red mass.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • Henry Plantagenet

      It is religious belief which is child abuse. Even my twelve-year-old said so. And she's clearly smarter than...Oh, never mind.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • The real Tom

      HIGH: "You wouldn't be here today if He hadn't intervened and provided a plan for Noah."

      See, when you make idiotic statements like that, you invite ridicule. You don't know anything of the sort to be true. You believe it and that is all. Nothing but faith. No facts. No evidence. Why do you have to lie about it?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • Hi

      – Damocles

      Apparently you missed something important.

      Human beings were on a path to destroy the world.

      God stopped this, and saved some of the human beings.

      But He allowed to floods to destroy the people lost to their evil desires.

      If God hadn't stepped in, you wouldn't be here today.

      God loves you.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:32 am |
    • The real Tom

      What utter BS.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • factchecker.org

      The poster "Hi", in fact, has no facts!

      June 29, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Observer

      Here's how God treated CHILDREN AND OTHER LIVING THINGS:

      Genesis 7:21 "And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, domestic animals, wild animals, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all human beings”

      June 29, 2013 at 10:36 am |
    • Damocles

      @high

      Eight is not some, its a ridiculously small percentage of whatever the world's population would have been at that time. And riddle me this highboy, why wouldn't your benevolent deity take care of the problem before it got so out of control that it had to murder millions of people?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • Hi

      The love and acceptance of God is much greater than the love and acceptance of internet atheists.

      Internet atheists spend way too much time insisting God doesn't exist. Why post here? Why not post on a science or evolution board? Why not actually practice what you preach?

      What are you looking for?

      God?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • Damocles

      So murder is the new love and acceptance?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • The real Tom

      Hi, why do you post here where atheists and agnostics are free to tell you you're full of crap if you don't enjoy it? You can find lots of religious blogs that require you to log in and that discourage free expression. Go there if you're so annoyed.

      It's none of your business why anyone does anything.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • Colin

      @ Hi. For the same reason doctors don't spend time with healthy people. If you want to change minds, and help elevate Christians out of their childish superst.itions, you have to confront the problem.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      as always is as always lying
      I am right. This god of yours is not healthy for children and other living things.
      from your story book.
      Genesis 7:21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

      That would indicate that god is not healthy for anything alive...the alternative is that this god of yours does not actually exist.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Hi

      :"And riddle me this highboy, why wouldn't your benevolent deity take care of the problem before it got so out of control that it had to murder millions of people?"

      God didn't murder them. They died in a flood. He offered a way out to those who would listen.

      It is the same today. God allows us to live for or against him, and we have to live with the consequences.

      Sometimes God does interfere in our lives with a flood or something before we totally destroy ourselves.

      God is sovereign. In the end He judges us, not the other way around.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • The real Tom

      So killing them in a flood was a loving act because they were "destroying themselves"? That's the stupidest explanation I've heard yet.

      How dumb do you have to be to believe this crap?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • factchecker.org

      Fun stories, "Hi"! Thankfully, you have no facts, otherwise that would be some scary shit!

      June 29, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Hi

      :"Hi, why do you post here where atheists and agnostics are free to tell you you're full of crap if you don't enjoy it? You can find lots of religious blogs that require you to log in and that discourage free expression. Go there if you're so annoyed. "

      Because the people here keep asking about God.

      The internet atheists talk about God more than Christians on religious boards. Kind of ironic!

      June 29, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • The real Tom

      No, they're not 'asking' about your god. They're challenging you to make good on your ridiculous claims and stop using the bible as an excuse to discriminate against people you dislike.

      If you can't take it, leave.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • Colin

      So Tom what will you do about your sin?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Hi

      God is light (good). There is no darkness (evil) in Him. Perhaps his mere presence destroys darkness.

      When He came to save His creation, all the darkness drowned. But every single person in the light survived.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Damocles

      @IamthenewdefinitionofhighbecauseImsohigh

      Seriously?

      First you say it didn't kill them, they died in a flood it sent. Riiiggghhtt.

      Then you say basically 'oh, my deity needs to send a flood every so often to remind people it's a vindictive little thing'.

      You are magically stupid.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Damocles

      @stupidlyhigh

      Murder is wrong goofball. We punish those that murder. Weird, right?

      June 29, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      hi
      "God is light (good). There is no darkness (evil) in Him. Perhaps his mere presence destroys darkness.

      When He came to save His creation, all the darkness drowned. But every single person in the light survived."

      Seriously, you don't even understand your own religion nor your god.
      God is as evil as he is good, as male as he is female, as dark as he is light as much hate as he is love...he is all things , remember? And there apparently were less than 10 people that were in the light when god sent a flood murdering everyone else? God created your satan and your hell knowing full well the consequences, why do that if he is "all good and no evil"...that makes no sense, as does any of your posts.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent has to write to ensure satan's lies of dung keep flowing.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The real Tom, idiotic statements belong to you and all your dummy handles.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent is, in fact, no only the biggest liar on the Belief Blog, but all the most paranoid poster!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Richard Cranium, you don't get it. Allow me to spell it out for you. Only evil believes God to be evil because He's wiping you out.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom as factchecker, make like a tree.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:34 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      HS
      I get it far more than you appear to.
      Your god allegedly created everything, including good and evil, created your satan, knowing full well the consequences. Your god is OK with anything satan has done, or ever will do, for he certainly knew what would happen when he created him.
      Why is it that you can't see that...it is a central theme in your story book. God is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, and is all things.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Richard Cranium, where do you get the false information? It's already written, God sentenced satan to perish and all those that follow his lies.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Richard Cranium, the world we live in is a test from God to find out who is going to follow Jesus' truth so we can dwell with Him through eternity. All evil doesn't make it to eternity. Unbelief of His truth is evil.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • Hi

      :Richard

      Riiiight! I'm sure an angry-sounding internet atheist who rejects Jesus Christ knows more about my religion than me.

      Are you serious? Do you realize how arrogant that appears?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      HS
      You state belief, not truth.
      I do not believe your version of your religion.
      If you have anything other than an old book that has been proven wrong in many areas, please feel free to present it.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      HS
      Where am I "angry sounding"?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Hi

      :Richard

      You sound angry when you claim all your beliefs are based in logic and reason.

      While the beliefs of those people you dislike are not based in logic and reason. People like me ignore logic and reason to reach our conclusions.

      That seems pretty arrogant to claim some exclusive access to logic and reason.

      Sorry, people who believe in God use logic and reason, too.

      Besides, there is more to life than logic and reason. That is why God is concerned about our hearts, not just our minds.

      You also sound angry when you accuse others of lying, when simply you just don't agree with them.

      And when you accuse others of breaking commandments you sound angry. And hypocritical. Are you sure you are not a fundie Christian? You sure act like one some times!

      June 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Hi
      I did not make that claim. I made the claim that yours is NOT based in any logic or reason...if it was there would be no reason for faith. I made no claim to my beliefs, but since you addressed it, ,y beliefs are based in what we know to be, and I have no issue saying I do not know when I do not know. Religions like to claim to know , when they cannot possibly, man's own imagination responding to man's own ignorance, which is where all religions come from.
      And how is that angry sounding?
      It would take a great deal to make me angry, and really only can be accomplished by people who know me.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Hi

      Sorry I misunderstood you. When someone claims to know more about me (from just postings on a message board) I think that sounds like they are angry.

      Because it is completely unreasonable.

      I have faith in God to get me through this life. I use logic and reason to believe in God. They are both gifts from God.

      Human beings are more than just the product of logic and reason.

      Life is way more beautiful than that.

      Get off the computer and spend some time in nature. See the wonders of God.

      It is quite logical and reasonable to expect there is more to life than meets the eye.

      I can't deny that.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      hi
      "I have faith in God to get me through this life. I use logic and reason to believe in God. They are both gifts from God."
      incorrect. Logic and reason would indicate Not to believe without evidence, otherwise you would then believe in all of the thousands of gods and every other whim like the toothfairy and the Great pumpkin, logic precludes you from believing without evidence.

      "Get off the computer and spend some time in nature. See the wonders of God. "
      I am only on the computer while at work, and am in the middle of processes running I have a few moments to indulge myself. I otherwise I do not go on the computer I also see many wonders, but I wonder why you attribute these wonders to a god that you cannot possibly know exists. That is like saying Go and see the wonders that the Great Pumpkin has bestowe upon us...again, you are confusing logic with belief.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Hi

      Nope. Belief in Jesus Christ does not logically mean I would believe in thousands of gods or the toothfairy. Belief for me is based on my real life relationship with Jesus. I don't have that with the thousands of other gods. This isn't something I just read about in a book.

      That is completely illogical. Especially when he clearly asks us not to believe in such things.

      You've demonstrated unreasonableness above.

      And now being illogical.

      I think it would be wise to stop listening to you now!

      Good day.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • tallulah13

      "I think it would be wise to stop listening to you now!"

      In other words, "Hi" is confused by logic. It's easier to believe in the make-believe when reality doesn't come knocking on the door.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Hi

      Eh, I can point out believers that demonstrate a better grasp of logic than you. There are great scientists that believe in God. You claiming they are illogical would look foolish (that is why you post on a CNN Message Board and they get paid to write in scientific journals).

      June 29, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Tallulah
      Clearly another who does not understand what logic is. Thinking that belief in the supernatural somehow is logical is instant logic fail. While I understand they believe, they don't understand that faith itself is illogical, by definition, otherwise there would be no reason for faith in the first place.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      hi
      By all means, please lay out the logic that gets you to the conclusion that your god exists.
      I will show you where it is flawed.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      and by the way hi,
      I have been paid quite a bit for all of the science that I have published. My work is in many fields of science. Have any one of your science friends try publishing a logical essay proving the existance of any gods...they would be laughed out of the scientific community.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
  12. CommonSense

    If god created human, who (or what) created god?

    June 29, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Humans.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Colin

      Read the book God is.You'll be appraised of any further information on a need to know basis but frankly you ain't that important.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:04 am |
    • Hi

      God has always existed.

      Our world is limited. And was created for us.

      God dwells outside this world in eternity.

      It is beyond human understanding. Our mortal minds can't adequately comprehend an eternal, infinite, limitless existence.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:05 am |
    • jason

      dick head is right humans create gods but "G" GOD IS and has always been.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • Apple Bush

      Who created God? God's mom and dad of course.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:07 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      jason
      Your evidence is?
      The existance of any gods is just a hypothesis, since there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, it can't even qualify as a theory.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • jason

      my evidence is I've met God and He is everything He says He is and more.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      jason
      Ahhh...anecdotal evidence, which is no evidence at all. Try again.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • jason

      those God loves God calls sorry about you looks like you're out of trys

      June 29, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • Hi

      I don't think Jason has to prove God to you. Why would he? He can honestly explain his evidence for believing in God, and you are free to accept or reject it.

      Who are you to establish the guidelines on how God should and shouldn't reveal himself to us? Do you think you are a god or something?

      If you honestly want to know God and not just know about Him, perhaps we can help you.

      If you honestly just want to insist on how right you think are, I doubt anyone can help you.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • The real Tom

      Then you and jason should stop claiming you have evidence that he exists. If you believe, fine. Don't claim you have facts.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:23 am |
    • factchecker.org

      jason, in fact, demonstrates no evidence here.
      It's best to chalk it up to crazy talk.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • Damocles

      @high

      How in the world do you know so much about something that you just said can't be known??

      High as a kite, as always.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:28 am |
    • Henry Plantagenet

      God is a fictional character, like Darth Vader or Voldemort.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • Damocles

      @jason

      Seek help. Seriously.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:34 am |
    • Hi

      Do you think God smiles at the internet atheists that spend so much time on a faith and belief blog... talking about God?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      hi
      I simply asked for evidence of this alleged god. There is none, anywhere. Just like there is no evidence of any of the other thousands of gods.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • The real Tom

      I don't think a god worth the name would be concerned with internet posters.

      If your god is busy smiling or reading here, he's an idiot.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • Damocles

      @IflyhighcuzIcantdealwithreality

      Ask jason, he seemingly has met the deity, had coffee and danish with it and then played a few rousing games of putt-putt with it.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • factchecker.org

      There is, in fact, no facts about any gods, Hi. So why try to pretend there is something that is like a human, with human emotions?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • oOo

      LOL (Damo's post)

      June 29, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • The real Tom

      Me, too. Damo should have a special on HBO.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Damocles

      🙂

      June 29, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Hi

      :Richard

      I have evidence.

      God exists. And just because you don't know this doesn't make it any less true.

      You seem to want evidence you can possess and control. That is not God.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      hi
      You claim to have evidence, yet you do not present it. Is it because you know I will shred any thing you present because you know there is no logic or reason behind your alleged evidence? You know that such "evidence" will not stand up to scrutiny?
      Of course... you have faith, and faith is not evidence. Actually faith is the ability to ignore facts and leap to a completely illogical and unreasonable conclusion based on nothing. You must ignore logic and reason in order to have faith, otherwise there would be no need for faith.

      SO are you bold enough to present this "evidence"? I would love to show you exactly where your evidence is not, and where you made the error in logic.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • factchecker.org

      "Hi", in fact, has no facts AND no evidence. Pretty dumb!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • Damocles

      High's response:

      You can't have my super-duper nifty evidence for a deity because you can't see it, it's all in my mind, but it's there I tell you! It's there!!!

      *puff puff* Wait, what were we talking about??

      June 29, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Hi

      :Richard Cranium

      Do you honestly and truthfully want evidence of God?

      Because it actually looks like you just want to prove that you are right and insist you know what motivates me.

      You are wrong about me.

      I can help you find God. Are you willing to humble yourself?

      @ "High"

      Cute. Why are there so many people on here that resort to changing a person's alias into some kind of slur or demeaning phrase? Am I trying to have a discussion with 4th Graders?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Hi
      I simply , again, ask for evidence. I searched for god for decades and either he completely ignored me all that time, or he does not exist,
      Tell me , why do you not believe in the thousands of other gods?

      You realize further that when you say the names of the days of the week, or the names of planets, many towns, cars, candy bars...all these things that are named for many of the other gods that you are violating one of your gods top 10 no-no's right?

      Please...your evidence...and show your work.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Hi

      @ Richard Cranium

      I'm sure a God of grace and mercy can overlook me being taught that a certain day is named "Monday" by our society.

      I don't place "Monday" at the center of my life or pray to "Monday" or seek to do "Monday's" will.

      Nobody but God and Jesus Christ has kept all the 10 Commandments.

      If you want evidence I suggest you find some believers you know and ask them. They have evidence for believing in God. If you don't like that evidence, fine. Why keep asking me for evidence? What are you looking for?

      I think God wants you to know Him. Not just know about Him.

      Don't deny your sins. Deny yourself. Repent.

      God is real.

      Honest.

      There is evidence of you being wrong today. Maybe this is where you can start to admit some of your defects?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      When a Christian claims to have evidence but doesn't, is that a lie?

      June 29, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Hi

      I have to to, but I know how much you like evidence.

      Here is evidence of you being wrong:

      -–
      Richard Cranium

      First off, no one at CNN would sign off with "Yr hmbl srvnt".
      Secondly, since all it takes is an email address to log on,

      you could block one email account and I could then just create

      a dummy email on many sites for free, and start posting again.
      This is not a representative for CNN.
      Nice try though.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:04 pm

      --

      Can you admit where you were wrong? This can actually be a good first step in searching for God. Good luck on your search!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Hi

      "I have to go"

      I wouldn't believe if I didn't have evidence. There are plenty of intelligent and scientific minds that see evidence of God.

      An internet atheist not seeing or realizing that evidence doesn't make it any less true. Keep searching.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      @Hi

      What is the evidence, then? Those scientists and professionals that think the universe is evidence of god believe in different gods and doctrines, so the "evidence" really isn't since it does not demonstrate that one god is true and the others false. Get it?

      June 29, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • What IF

      @Hi,

      CNN's David Burke confirmed his ident'ity in less than 30 minutes, with a couple of hundred keystrokes.

      (of course there *is* the possibility that he is a just highly skilled hacker, but I think we have somewhat sufficient evidence that he is the CNN co-Editor)

      Perhaps your "God" character could take a few pointers on ident'ity verification from David Burke...?

      June 29, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • What IF

      p.s. Don't you think that a real god would be at least as smart, efficient and effective as David Burke?

      June 29, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • What IF

      p.p.s. Yoiks, his name is "Daniel", not "David". My apologies for my mistake.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
  13. lol??

    Zombie nation, zombie tribe
    No place to run
    No place to hide

    And the band droned on.

    So proud to live, so proud to die

    June 29, 2013 at 9:53 am |
  14. Squished Kitty Chronicles

    Just another blood stain on the highway of life. You are deeply disturbed seek help.

    June 29, 2013 at 9:51 am |
  15. HeavenSent

    Tom, get your anger under control or the court will order you to take anger management classes for which your big ego will deny any truth to its validity as well.

    June 29, 2013 at 9:50 am |
    • == o ==

      Uh oh, I'm now realizing that HS is yet another flunkie from the Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. training bootcamp.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:54 am |
    • The real Tom

      HS=stupid troll

      June 29, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • HeavenSent

      How clever, not. DUMMY HANDLES BACKING UP LIES.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
  16. palintwit

    Last April astronomers from all over the northern hemisphere traveled to Alaska to observe the meteor showers. Sarah Palin was easy to spot as she was the only one with an umbrella.

    June 29, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Ok...that one was funny, but you really need to look into this obsession you have with her.

      I was invited to a meteor shower, and I couldn't figure out what I should bring as a gift.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:02 am |
  17. Books of Creationism and Intelligent Design are banned from public schools

    Because children deserve genuine scientific knowledge not religious nonsense.

    June 29, 2013 at 9:37 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The lies of evolution is taught to ensure folks can stay in their denial.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:43 am |
      • lngtrmthnkr

        the atheist does not believe in God because he sees no physical evidence.However, you see all kinds of evidence and choose to ignore it.You limit your intelligence and restrict your ability to know God in all his mysteries.

        July 18, 2013 at 7:59 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent is the one who, in fact, has been caught lying on many occasions.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      What lies of evolution? Are you really so ridiculous to not see evolution is as real as DNA.? You can trace evolution right through any and all DNA.
      Please be specific as to which lies of evolution you are refering to.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • Hi

      We don't know how the universe began. We have theories, but all are unproven. It appears that a "big bang" started it all, but appearances can be deceiving.

      In 600 years everything we know about the universe will look as silly as it did 600 years ago, when the world "appeared" flat.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:51 am |
    • Filthy Hind I love to Mithrism lick and talk Islam bunk

      HeavenScent is a hypocrite, as are all religious fundies. If they were in prison and DNA (which proves Evolution) could get them out, they would use it. They are too stupid to get why it's true, but they would use it.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:53 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Evolution allows those living in denial to not understand they are living a lie.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:54 am |
    • HeavenSent

      DNA evidence was perfected to be a witness to Jesus' truth.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • CommonSense

      If god created human, who (or what) created god?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • lol??

      Evolution can be considered obsolete and you can forget: "Evolutionary thought, the conception that species change over time, has roots in antiquity, in the ideas of the ancient Greeks, Romans, and Chinese as well as in medieval Islamic science." Just a dream and no concept of DNA, dudes. wiki Oh, oooooohhh, micro vs macro!!

      Lazarus didn't evolve out of the grave.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent's claims are, in fact, false.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • HeavenSent

      factchecker, cough Tom. You need help with your obsession of stalking me.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • Science

      Wow HS...............you polka about as good as chavic.

      No god(s) needed to polka with chavic.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
  18. Austin

    Austin
    ok, going back to the night i had a dream that i was walking through a pitch black forest, and i saw an A frame cabin. so i knocked it was cold out. and this lady opens up the door and lets me in and says, "i have two kids", and one was dead but its spirit was in the corner of the room (couldnt see it) and it started singing in a dual tone voice and the singing inverted my body.

    well that day this little white kitten was on my porch, and in the dream when i was inverted by the demonic voice, the kitty ran underneath with blood gushing out of it.

    i woke up and went outside , and i knew this was a demonic dream, and the cat WAS DEAD, iT WAS RAN OVER AT THE END OF THE DRIVE WAY.

    June 29, 2013 at 9:32 am |
    • Austin

      You need your own experience , with the Holy Spirit. Ask God.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:33 am |
  19. HeavenSent

    Tom, all you unbelievers enjoy while you can. Jesus is at the door and Justice came in last December while all you fools were snoozing.

    June 29, 2013 at 9:17 am |
    • The real Tom

      Stupid troll.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:27 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The sin of anger (aka wrath) is blinding you Tom.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
  20. The real Tom

    HeavenSent, every other word you type is either "satan's lies" or "denial."

    Do you really think anyone is going to change his mind because of your wailing? You've been writing the same sorry crap for months. Has anyone ever said you were convincing? Persuasive?

    Get a clue. You are hurting your own cause.

    June 29, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • Saraswati

      I concluded HeavenSent was a troll a few weeks ago. He's really waybeyond plausible ... and I try pretty hard to give most people the benefit of the doubt.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:12 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      Tom
      HS reminds me of the street preachers in various cities...no one ever stops to listen to them, and no one even makes eye contact with them....It is obvious to everyone that there is a great deal of mental illness going on there.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • Filthy Hind I love to Mithrism lick and talk Islam bunk

      HS is a morbidly obese, trailer park queen from Canada. I thought that was well established.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:18 am |
    • The real Tom

      You know, Sara, I really think you're probably correct. HS is just a troll. Whoever is posting under the name isn't the original, who probably left some time ago. This POS is a poser.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:22 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Get a clue yourself Tom. You are responsible for not believing as well as the other unhealthy vices you refined that are listed below for destruction..

      Revelation 21:8

      But the f.earful, and u.nbelieving, and the a.bominable, and m.urderers, and w.horemongers, and s.orcerers, and i.dolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      Amen.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:24 am |
    • The real Tom

      Silly troll.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Sybil Tom and her dummy handles to pretend she has friends to back up her cough his lies. You're beyond boring with this routine.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:28 am |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent is, in fact, a sill troll.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:39 am |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent is, in fact, a silly troll.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:39 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      I'm pretty sure HS is a troll, and lol is the silly troll. Maybe a distinction without a difference.

      June 29, 2013 at 9:43 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Sybil Tom, to have real friends, you have to be a true friend. To be a true friend, you need to follow Jesus.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "HS is a morbidly obese, trailer park queen from Canada."

      Hey...that's offensive to Canada. Can we not locate her/him to some trailer park in NC or Southern Alabama or maybe she/he's actually from Afghanistan?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • Observer

      HeavenSent,

      Why would you think you can get into heaven when you constantly LIE about Tom and me being one person?

      Answer please.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • jason

      heaven is not gained by works but by grace through faith in the eternal Son of God

      June 29, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Observer, which character of Sybil do you play?

      June 29, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • The real Tom

      Observer, this HS is just some bozo playing you. It's a troll and not worth the time it takes to respond to it.

      June 29, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Of course sinners living in satan's lies to create denial, hate Jesus Christ's truth that bursts their bubbles.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.