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Conservatives brace for `marriage revolution'
Conservative Christians say their churches have been unprepared for cultural shifts on same-sex marriage.
June 28th, 2013
06:19 PM ET

Conservatives brace for `marriage revolution'

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - With its ivy-covered entrance and Teddy Bear bouquets, Arlene’s Flowers seems an unlikely spot to trigger a culture-war skirmish.

Until recently, the Richland, Washington, shop was better known for its artistic arrangements than its stance on same-sex marriage.

But in March, Barronelle Stutzman, the shop’s 68-year-old proprietress, refused to provide wedding flowers for a longtime customer who was marrying his partner. Washington state legalized same-sex marriage in December.

An ardent evangelical, Stutzman said she agonized over the decision but couldn’t support a wedding that her faith forbids.

“I was not discriminating at all,” she said. “I never told him he couldn’t get married. I gave him recommendations for other flower shops.”

Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson disagreed, and filed a consumer protection lawsuit against Arlene’s Flowers. The ACLU also sued on behalf of the customer, Robert Ingersoll, who has said Stutzman’s refusal “really hurt, because it was someone I knew.”

Among conservative Christians, Stutzman has become a byword - part cautionary tale and part cause celebre.

Websites call her a freedom fighter. Tributes fill Arlene’s Facebook page. Donations to her legal defense fund pour in from as far away as Texas and Arkansas.

“For some reason, her case has made a lot of people of faith worry,” said Stutzman’s lawyer, Dale Schowengerdt of the Alliance Defending Freedom, a conservative legal group.

Those anxieties have only increased, conservative Christians say, since the Supreme Court struck down part of the Defense of Marriage Act and opened the door to gay marriage in California.

Taking a line from Justice Antonin Scalia's sharp dissent, Southern Baptist scholar Albert Mohler said it’s only a matter of time "before the other shoe drops" – and the high court legalizes same-sex marriage from coast to coast.

“Christians will have to think hard — and fast — about these issues and our proper response,” Mohler wrote on Wednesday.

“We will have to learn an entire new set of missional skills as we seek to remain faithful to Christ in this fast-changing culture.”

His fellow Southern Baptist Russell Moore put the matter more succinctly.

“Same-sex marriage is coming to your community.”

`The debate is over'

Well before the Supreme Court’s rulings, many conservative Christians said they saw the writing - or the poll numbers - on the wall.

Survey after survey shows increasing support for same-sex marriage, especially among young Americans. That includes many religious believers.

Most Catholics and mainline Protestants, not to mention many Jews, support same-sex relationships, according to surveys. The bells of Washington National Cathedral pealed in celebration on Thursday.

Even among those who oppose gay marriage, many think it’s a losing battle.

Seventy percent of white evangelicals believe that legal recognition for gay nuptials is inevitable, according to a June poll by the Pew Research Center, though just 22 percent favor it.

“The gay marriage debate is over,” said Jonathan Merritt, an evangelical writer on faith and culture. “Statistically, all the numbers move in one direction.”

Young Christians have grown up in a far more diverse culture than their forebears, Merritt noted, and many have befriended gays and lesbians.

Pew found that more than 90 percent of Americans overall personally know someone who is gay or lesbian, a 30 percent increase since 1993.

“It’s far easier to wage war against an agenda than it is to battle a friend,” Merritt said.

At the same time, many conservative young Christians say they’re weary of the culture wars, and of seeing their communities labeled “judgmental.”

When Christian researchers at the Barna Group asked Americans aged 16-29 what words best describe Christianity, the top response was “anti-homosexual.” That was true of more than 90 percent of non-Christians and 80 percent of churchgoers, according to Barna.

Tired of being told the country is slouching toward Gomorrah, many young Christians have simply tuned out the angry prophets of earlier generations, evangelical leaders say.

“The shrill angry voices of retrenchment are no longer getting a broad hearing either in the culture at large or in the evangelical community,” Merritt said.

But the battle over same-sex marriage is far from over, said Brian Brown, president of the National Organization for Marriage.

“I don’t believe most Christians are going to give up the fight,” said Brown, who is Catholic. He said his movement includes many young evangelical and Orthodox Christians.

“And they are more energized than ever.”

Love thy gay neighbors

Energized or not, conservative Christians must prepare for the moral dilemmas posed by the country’s growing acceptance of same-sex marriage, said Moore, the new president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.

“Is Your Church Ready for the Marriage Revolution?” Moore asked, while promoting a special session on homosexuality at the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting in Houston in June.

Many evangelical pastors have seen homosexuality as a distant culture-war battle that’s fought far from the doors of the churches, Moore said.

Now, it’s as close as their front pews.

“I think it’s not so much that churches haven’t wanted to talk about it,” he said, “but they haven’t recognized how much the culture has changed around them.”

The first step, said Moore, is learning to defend traditional marriage without demonizing gays and lesbians.

Walking through Washington’s Union Station last Thursday, Moore said he saw several lesbian couples kissing in celebration of the Supreme Court rulings.

“If we can’t empathize with what’s going on in their hearts and minds, we’re not going to be able to love and respect them.”

Then come a host of secondary questions: How should conservative pastors minister to same-sex couples? Should Christians attend same-sex weddings? Should florists like Barronelle Stutzman's agree to work with gay couples?

`Don't give in' 

Florist Barronelle Stutzman.

In the 17 years she’s owned Arlene’s Flowers, Stutzman said, she’s worked with a number of gay colleagues.

“It really didn’t matter if they were gay, or blue or green, if they were creative and could do the job,” she said.

Stutzman suspects that some of her eight children privately don’t agree with her on homosexuality, even as they publicly support her decision.

Online, Stutzman has been called a bigot, and worse.

She said she’s lost at least two weddings because of her refusal to provide services for the same-sex marriage.

Conservative activists say her case is the first of what will surely be many more, as gay marriage spreads across the country.

As she gets ready to face a judge, the silver-haired florist offered some advice for fellow evangelicals.

“Don’t give in. If you have to go down for Christ, what better person to go down for?”

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Baptist • Belief • Christianity • Church • Culture wars • Discrimination • Faith • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Homosexuality • Politics • Religious liberty • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (5,210 Responses)
  1. Ron

    "This is life eternal that they may know You, the Only True God, and Jesus CHrist Whom You have sent!" ...Jesus (John 17:3)

    June 29, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      Islam and Ron, in fact, have no facts!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
  2. Ron

    "He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God" ....Colossians 1:15

    June 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      God is so invisible and undetectable that he is also irrelevant.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • Ron

      Capt, again, you have it backwards. You seem to have knack for doing that. lol He is The most Relevant One with Whom we have to do. Think again!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Ron, you could not be more wrong. There is exactly ZERO evidence for your god, and any "evidence" you claim can be equally claimed by the believers of any other god. If god were relevant, people would use him for practical application instead of just the object of their hopes and wishes (prayer/meditation).

      June 29, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      Ron loves fairy tales so much so, he thinks they are real. In fact, he is without facts.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Dippy

      And that's a fact!

      June 29, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
  3. Ron

    "Teach us to number our days". ....Psalm 90:12

    June 29, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      It's better to learn math in a math class than by reading fairy tales. That's a fact!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      We do number our days...for instance today is June 29, 2013. They appearently did not know what a calendar was and needed someone to teach them it.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Richard Cranium, correction, that's June 29, 2013 A.D. The term Anno Domini is Medieval Latin, translated as In the year of the Lord. Thank you for proof again of Jesus Christ's existence.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • Dippy

      You call that proof? Wow!!

      June 29, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • The real Tom

      facepalm.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • What IF

      Heaven Sent,

      The B.C./A.D. dating system was the brainchild of a monk named Dionysius in the 6th century. The Church was very powerful in those days and controlled many aspects of society, including politics, economics, literature and history-writing... still, his dating system took hundreds of years (nearly 1000) to be inst-ituted world-wide. Many cultures still keep their ancient calendars going on the side.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Dippy, notice it doesn't read June 29, 2013 e.l.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      What if, you still don't get it.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • What IF

      Every week (52 times per year) in English-speaking places we have:

      Tuesday = Tiu's day (Norse god)
      Wednesday = Woden's day (Norse god)
      Thursday = Thor's day (Norse god)
      Friday = Frigga's day (Norse goddess)
      Saturday = Saturn's day (Roman god)
      (And Sunday & Monday for the Sun & Moon)

      And every year:
      January = in honor of Janus (Roman god)
      February = Roman purification rite, februa
      March = in honor of Mars (Roman god)
      April = in honor of Aphrodite (Greek goddess)
      May = in honor of Maia (Roman goddess)
      June = in honor of Juno (Roman goddess)
      (And July & August in honor of 2 Roman Emperors - Sept. thru Dec. Roman numbers)

      This has been the case for a couple of thousand years... it must mean they are very important.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Dippy

      And BC and AD have been replaced with BCE and CE (before current epoch and current epoch, no religious baloney involved).

      June 29, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
  4. Ron

    "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both are an abomination to the Lord" ...Proverbs 17:15

    June 29, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      In the U.S., in fact, we don't live under lords!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      He who defines the wicked and he who defines the righteous sits at the right hand of god,not some guy who types on a computer

      July 18, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
  5. Ron

    By the Word of the Lord the heavens were made. ....Psalm 33:6

    June 29, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jews, the first to be deceived by the Kenites who claimed they are Jews, but lie, are from the synagogue of satan.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • Ron

      Heaven Sent, the verse you quote was written by a Jew (John) in the Book of revelation. Such a generalization shows poor interpretation. You can do better. The entire Bible was written by Jews, including the New Covenant, or NT, with the possible exceptiins of Luke and Acts (also written by Luke). All the disciples were Jewish. The Savior of the world is Jewish! Let us be more careful about foolish posts.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Ron, why don't you clarify your concerns instead of assuming I must be wrong? The entire battle is between God and satan.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      Uh oh, disagreement at the Fairy Tale Club. The believers all like to write their own endings!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Apparently factchecker doesn't know how to act like a tree?

      June 29, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
  6. Ron

    What they shoveling now? lol "Conservatives brace" for evil? If one is a born again Christian he knows that we will go from bad to worse, no suprise there. "The debate is over" Right, there never was a debate on what marriage is. DUH! We are so dumbed down that we can no longer figure that one out? Marriage is what God made it. It always will be, between a man and a woman. DUH! CNN likes to shovel the crap on a daily basis. lol

    June 29, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Akira

      That is all fine and dandy, but the laws in this country are not based on what definition the Bible gives to anything, let alone marriage.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira,

      According to the Laws of the U.S.A. are they not following the gospel when it comes to 2 people and only 2 people being "lawfully" allowed to get married? Is this not biblical? Why not 3 men and 5 women all becoming married to each other? The lawful marrying of but 2 persons is based upon the Holy Bible is it not?

      June 29, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Akira

      Oh, gee, the slippery slope garbage again...you have asked this and have been answered many times before.
      Stop being disingenuous if you want to be taken seriously.
      Your Bible also condoned polygamy, so I am unsure what the hell you're even asking about.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      Ron, in fact, has no facts! He doesn't like it when someone doesn't reading the fairy tales the same way he does.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira,

      Quit dodging the questions and answer them!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • humanistJohn420

      I can't stop laughing. I just imagine you saying this out loud and constantly going "DUH!" because your brain hurts from trying to think.

      July 1, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
  7. HeavenSent

    +
    factchecker Tom, you need professional help to stop stalking me with your lies that hold no water.

    June 29, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Blah, blah, blah, you're a troll.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, you wish ... to prevent His truth from surfacing after all the dung you slung around to see what sticks.

      You're skating close to offensive posts, @HeavenSent. Watch it.

      –Daniel Burke

      June 29, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • The real Tom

      No wishing necessary. You're a fake. Nice try. Fail.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • factchecker.org

      HeavenSent, in fact, as I said earlier, is the most paranoid troll on the BB. It even thinks I am Tom.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Oh Tom, have you given up on your favorite "your comment is awaiting moderation"?

      June 29, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      factchecker, lie all you want about anything you want. You're all amateurs,

      June 29, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
  8. hypatia

    Wah wah wah. The xians are all sad because they have finally been shown that they can believe whatever antique bs they want but they cannot make it secular law. Awwwww...

    June 29, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      hypatia, tune in. You've all been written in His prophecy that you're proving to be true. Smile now, for you cry later.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • tallulah13

      True enough. Their inane flailings can't disguise the fact that humans are slowly but surely outgrowing bronze age mythology.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tallulah, how can you outgrow wisdom that you've never learned? That's called impossible for those living in LALA land of denial.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
  9. You can expect to reap LAWLESSNESS when the "church" teaches we are no longer under the law.

    Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.

    June 29, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      The US is 88% Christian, and every President to serve has been a Christian, and most politicians are Christians, so I don't think that the nation is going to "forget god' anytime soon, though I sure wish it would.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      There's strong arguments to be made that Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Lincoln were not Christian.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • You can expect to reap LAWLESSNESS when the "church" teaches we are no longer under the law.

      Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • tallulah13

      So the bible says if you don't do what the bible says you'll be sorry.

      And you fell for that?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      @I'm Sorry Dave, I can't let your beetle crawl over my foot,

      Agreed, but the Christians to whom I say that would not buy any of those arguments.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      Yummy, yummy, yummy, I got love in my tummy. Ohio Express, 1968

      June 29, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
  10. You can expect to reap LAWLESSNESS when the "church" teaches we are no longer under the law.

    Is this GRACE? It must be, because that's what we're under.

    June 29, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
  11. Reality

    A great victory for rational thinking!!!

    Hopefully, the divorce rate will always be significantly less than that of the heterose-xual community.

    June 29, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Reality,

      What's so rational about gayness and its followers? The subverting of sexual identities creates mentalities of confusion among the younger folks who are not yet of physically sensual age.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Loopy Lion, if that were true, you could prove it by showing evidence from research. You can't, because it's not the case. Stop attempting to pretend that you know what you're talking about.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Akira

      Who follows gayness? What a ridiculous assertion.
      One cannot "teach" a kid to be gay or hetero. The kid is one or the other.
      This absurd thinking is right up there with the Exodus Foundation, and deserves a swift death before it screws up any other child's psyche because Mom and Dad are uneducated on the aspects of human sexuality.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira,

      Are you so daft that you cannot see the followers of the gay crowds outside their homosexual boundaries? Bisexuality dare throws a wrench into the cogs of homosexuality's desiring to say they were born that way! Next thing will be someone wanting to legally marry their pet(s) for they were born to love them!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      TrT,

      Answer the question I posed which is, "What's so rational about gayness and its followers?" If you can't answer it I will take it that all you are attempting to do is be antagonistically profuse and redundant.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • The real Tom

      The question is idiotic, LL, like most of the questions you pose. There isn't anybody "following gayness." People care about gays having equal rights because they have friends and family members who are gay and because they believe in our laws that SAY we are all created equal. People don't have to be black to care about civil rights for African Americans. They don't have to be female to care about equal rights for women. What Reality is cheering is the rationality has won out over prejudice.

      If you are so dense that you can't see that, you need to get smarter.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Dippy

      I think that answers LamblyLion's question perfectly, Tom. But there's no way he'll accept it. Most likely, he won't even understand it. He's a lost cause. I usually just leave him alone.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      TrT wrote, "There isn't anybody following gayness."

      Then am I imagining non-gays willingly following along the social pathways of homosexuality's fight to be gender equals?

      June 29, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
  12. mama k

    @Rainmain

    Outdated folklore will help you no more. And you better get ready, gay marriage will be fully legalized soon in Germany before it is soon legalized across the U.S.

    June 29, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      A few states will hold out, although they may cause it to be federally mandated (hee-hee. Mandate/Gay marriage).

      June 29, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • mama k

      lol – I meant to say @Rainman, but maybe I should have said @Rain-on-the-brain.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • mama k

      Rainman should love this (Deutsche Welle – 6/28/13):

      "Germany's lower house of parliament, the Bundestag, has voted overwhelmingly in favor of tax equality for same-sex unions. A ruling by the country's top court in favor of gay couples had forced the parliamentary vote."

      It's a good step and they are moving toward full recognition of gay marriage.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
  13. Rainer Braendlein

    Leviticus 18: 22-30 (God told his Chosen People Israel the following):

    Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. 26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) 28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. 29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

    June 29, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      America is a republic. We don't have lords.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Hey Rainer? Your god has no legal standing in the legislative process of the United States.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
  14. Science

    ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news and science breakthroughs – updated daily

    Hey chavic.................what does Rachel say about you 2 timing with VIC ?

    Origin of Life News

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/fossils_ruins/origin_of_life/

    June 29, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Science

      Oops no fairy in the sky needed for Origins of Life.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
  15. Rainer Braendlein

    St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans, Chapter 1:

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    © Copyright by International Bible Society

    June 29, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Matthew 7:1
      Judge not, lest ye be judged".

      June 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Dear Americans,

      you made the Dollar your God thus God gave you up into gayness which is se-xual confusion.

      You adored and adore the idol Mammon (the evil demon behind capitalism) and the death takes hold of you depriving you of every sanity and reason so that you even prefer the same gender instead of the opposite.

      Your se-xual confusion shows that you have left the sphere of God's life-giving presence, and entered the kingdom of death.

      Yet, it is not to late, you can still return to the eternal Godhead through God's Gospel of his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose for us. God is a loving God, who gave his beloved Son for us in order to release us from the constraint to sin. Believe that, and get sacramentally baptized or remember your infant baptism, and your mind will be cured together with your soul and your body.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      Rainer Braendlein

      Tell that to every church on the planet, not the Average Joes. At least I'm not hypocritical about my love of material wealth.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • asygifvasi

      Don't forget the part about killing your child if they do not obey you!

      Or having multiple wives!

      Or raping women and girls you enslave!

      June 29, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bucky, you unbelievers always fall back to square one.

      TRUE BELIEVERS JUDGE (not according to their own standard Matthew 7:1-2) (we discern)

      "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." John 7:24 (Ephesians 5:11, 1 Corinthians 5:12)
      "But he who is spiritual judges ALL things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one." 1 Corinthians 2:15 (1 Corinthians 6:2-3; 10:15; 14:29, Romans 16:17)

      Judging Is Believing.

      Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? (Luke 12:57)

      What is right?

      The statutes of the Lord are right (Psalm 19:8).

      False Christians and unbelievers tell us it is not right to judge. Some fools hypocritically condemn us for judging (Luke 6:37), and they all hypocritically judge that we judge. When we identify preachers as false teachers leading both themselves and those who follow them to hell, when we declare others as on their way to hell, and especially when we warn them they are lost, we often hear these words (or the equivalent), "Judge not" (Matthew 7:1). Yet, these words are exactly why we judge aka called discern others righteousness or lack of.

      Jesus said,

      Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. (Matthew 7:1-2)

      Amen.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Roger that

      HeavenSent,

      OFFENSIVE COMMENT DELETED.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • mama k

      I love when fundies try to discuss the founding of the U.S. they have to retreat to the dollar bill, or the Mayflower Compact, or something George Washington wrote, completely ignoring the influence of Deism as well as those who didn't subscribe to any of the major religions.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Akira

      Why are so many people concerned with what people do in their bedrooms? They are obsessed with sex. More so than the ones they are accusing of having it.
      I suggest they get their brains out of the prepubescent mode and take care of their own business instead of obsessing over someone else's.

      This is tiring. Worry about your own lives and your own salvation rather than trying to insert your beliefs and prejudices into other people's lives.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Akira, they're obsessed with it because they don't have any.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • Akira

      Tom, I've know 11 year old boys who were less obsessed with it than some of the people posting here; it's ridiculous.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Roger that, you only want to believe that lie so that you can continue your sinful ways. It's the reason you live in denial.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
  16. Damocles

    Ok, so back on topic, yes?

    She had two choices, run her business and take money from anyone that wanted to do business with her, which, by the way, is them doing HER a favor by spending money in her store. Or, and this is the option she took, she could discriminate. Bravo.

    Now she didn't have to agree with the choice and she could have quietly pursed her lips and wrinkled her nose at the thought of a same-s/ex couple, but she can't refuse sevice based solely on her displeasure. Where does it end?

    Let's all put on our grown-up pants and get with the program. You don't have to like what people do, but if you are going to run a business, you will have to deal with people you don't like. Suck it up. Unless you are going to be balls out brave and tack up a sign in your front window that reads 'I won't do business with those X people'.

    June 29, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Akira

      I don't think it's legal to deny goods and services to people in a retail setting because of discrimination, religious or otherwise. It reminds me of the Woolworth's lunch counter...I though we had gotten past that kind of discriminating behavior...

      June 29, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • I wonder

      I'm not disagreeing with you, but just for the sake of discussion - how does this differ from the rights of a business owner to declare: "No shirt, no shoes, no service", or to require a jacket and tie to be served dinner, or to allow in only 5 teenagers at a time?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Sexual orientation is not within ones control, no shoes; no shirt are within ones control. The tie required issue is usually only specific to higher class restaurants.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Akira

      I wonder:
      The first one has to do with hygiene and health regulations, plus that goes for everyone, not just gay people, per se, so there isn't any discriminatory actions there; and the second one is a dress code. Notice that most places with such a dress code have extra jackets and ties on hand so they actually aren't refusing service altogether.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I wonder how many of those "requirements" would stand up in court if anyone chose to pursue legal action against the owners of businesses that refuse service based on age or dress. However, I think race and orientation are in a different category.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Akira

      I didn't address the third scenario: it's a way of loss prevention. The signs I usually see doesn't say teenagers, it usually says "kids", and it's usually 2 kids. In many mom and pop stores, the security measures are not high tech; usually keeping an eye on shoplifters is as far as it goes.
      And again, it's all kids.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • Akira

      Tom, the stores aren't actually denying service based on age, they are limiting the number of kids that can be in the store at any given time.
      This has been going on for a long time; I can remember the convenience store by my HS doing it in the 70's. If unaccompanied by a parent, it was 2 kids.
      As for the dress code, I am unsure of legal it is, but it has been going on forever, and similar rules are enforced for baseball caps and gang colors at some establishments.
      I have to assume that it has been challenged before; we are a litigious society.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Damocles

      Thank you to the very few who chose to walk with me briefly down Stay-on-Topic Avenue. It was fun while it lasted.

      June 30, 2013 at 8:06 am |
  17. mama k

    ENDA CURRAN, of the Wall Street Journal reported yesterday:

    SYDNEY—Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said Friday he wants lawmakers to be allowed a free vote on gay marriage, taking a strong stance on the issue just months before an election.

    In a move reminiscent of U.S. President Barack Obama's reversal of his position on the issue before the November 2012 election, Mr. Rudd said he wants Australia to join neighboring New Zealand and a dozen other countries that have already granted same-sex couples the right to marry.

    June 29, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • tallulah13

      When politicians suddenly start doing the right thing, it kind of makes me wonder if they are using it as a smoke screen for something else.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      tallulah, get over yourself. Politicians are tired that gays don't have a legal tie to your partners so that the responsible partner pays for the chaos the irresponsible partner creates. In other words, the free ride is over.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I'm pretty certain that today the part of HeavenSent is being played by a troll. She would be less concerned about "free rides" and more concerned about "carnality."

      June 29, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Yup. It's not HS. I doubt the real HS has been here for some time. It's just a troll.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • I wonder

      tallulah & Tom,

      Not sure if it's the real HS or not (and don't much care), but she generally does tend to perseverate on certain buzz words for a time, then moves on to others.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      tallulah13, the only thing you can be certain of is His truth hurts and you got zoomed big time. Welcome to the world of financial responsibility for getting involved with a partner living in denial worse than you. Divorce attorneys love what's going on..

      June 29, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • The real Tom

      I'm pretty sure it's not the original. It's some bonehead trolling with her name. If Mr. Burke (cough) wants to do something constructive, he can make sure there are log-ins and that posters cannot do that.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • tallulah13

      True enough, "I wonder", but this Heaven Sent has a writing style that is further afield from the original than just a few words. This HS doesn't even sound like the real HS.

      And I agree, Tom. It's would actually be useful for "Mr. Burke" to do something about the trolling.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • The real Tom

      HS, if I were a moderator, I'd have found a way to get you off here months ago.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, everything you have done, never worked. Remember my degree is MIS and you're an amateur. Besides, how else are you going to learn Jesus' truth and claim you learned it on your own if you refused to listen to your parents when you had the chance?.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Science

      HS................what ?

      June 30, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Science

      Surf with cookies off or delete daily

      Europe furious, 'shocked' by report of U.S. spying

      By Josh Levs, CNN

      updated 11:13 AM EDT, Sun June 30, 2013

      June 30, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
  18. CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

    Hi folks,

    This is Daniel Burke, the article's author and co-editor of the Belief Blog.

    I see a lot of you have back-and-forth conversations that have little to do with the article itself. Which is fine. Have at it.

    But I also see a lot of crudely worded personal attacks. Surely you can do better.

    Those of you who continue to use foul language to criticize fellow commenters will be reported as abusive and eventually banned. A lot of you sound like really smart people – let's try to keep this a positive space to have much-needed and sharp debates.

    Along those lines, I'm going to jump into the comments section from time to time to ask if you guys how the blog is doing. Are we covering all the angles? Are there stories that we're missing? Did we get something boneheadedly wrong?

    Let me know, and if it's legit, I'll respond.

    I'll open the floor now: What stories is Belief missing that we should be covering?

    Yr hmbl srvnt,
    Daniel Burke

    June 29, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      It matters little what the topic of the article is, it always ends up the exact same down in the comments section. Fire and brimstone from the conservative Christians, 'all Christians are retarded' from the hardline atheists and the occasional (very occasional) comment that's insightful and relevant.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • HeavenSent

      How would Mr. Burke know if it was the true handle owner posting or the fakes that want to steal handles and spew profanity under a Christian's handle?

      June 29, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Dave, whine all you want. It's not our fault you are 2000 years behind what our ancestors knew of His truth. I told you that science uncovers His truth.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Daniel

      It has been awhile since you had Mr. Mohler write commentary on this blog, can you have one written by him?

      Thanks!

      June 29, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      Ya see Dan? You can't win.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Candiano

      Oh, really? CNN has yet to ban the very prolific troll that is on here and on Political Ticker, TJI, Marquee...and CNN has been notified many times, yet does nothing.
      He steals names. He posts outrageous things under those stolen names. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
      You will forgive me if I don't take the threat of being banned seriously, because this has been going on for years with this guy, and I don't think it will change until CNN changes it's format of commenting.

      As for your content, I think it's all right.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      First off, no one at CNN would sign off with "Yr hmbl srvnt".
      Secondly, since all it takes is an email address to log on, you could block one email account and I could then just create a dummy email on many sites for free, and start posting again.
      This is not a representative for CNN.
      Nice try though.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      Um, do you all not see the little logo next to his handle? This identifies him as a CNN employee.You can't fake that. Or rather if you can, prove it.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

      Actually, Mr. Cranium, you're wrong. It is me. I can go in an edit your comments if you don't believe me. (Only blog administrators can do that.)

      When I worked at Religion News Service, I signed my roundups Yr Hmbl Aggrtr. It's just something I do to remind myself (and readers) that as a journalist, I'm performing a public service. In other words, it's about you guys, not me.

      As for trolls, it really doesn't matter what email address or name they post under. There are ways to protect this space, and I'm going to do that. And if you see anything egregious, please bring it to my attention.

      Yr hmbl Srvnt,
      Daniel Burke

      See?

      http://www.religionnews.com/2013/04/22/mondays-religion-news-roundup-brothers-tsarnaev-muslim-last-rites-boy-scouts/

      June 29, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

      Oh, and yes, Daniel (great name!) we'd love to have Al Mohler write another post. I'll look into it.

      Yr Hmbl Srvnt,
      Daniel Burke

      June 29, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      I like Mohler in the kind of way you like the neighborhood drunk when he's dancing with no pants on.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • What IF

      Daniel Burke:
      " And if you see anything egregious, please bring it to my attention."

      Can you please list your contact address(es). I see your Twitter one above; is that the preferred method of contact?

      June 29, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Candida

      Thank you

      June 29, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Candida

      I was here last night and had to sign off after being attacked with name calling. This society really need to improve with toleration of others and their opinion, beliefs, whatnot. We should all have an intelligent debate without resorting to attacks.

      June 29, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Candida –

      You make a very good point; however, you do realize that the position on same sex marriage which you support is, by definition, intolerant. Right?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • tallulah13

      You were also supporting a blatant disregard for the law, Candida. You defended the flower shop owner's blatant act of illegal discrimination. I posted the comment from the prosecutor twice (along with the source link), explaining that indeed it is against the law to discriminate on the basis of orientation, but you ignored it and continued advocating criminal activity.

      Why do christians think it's okay to ignore the laws that they don't like? Why do you think that you are more important than the law of the land?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Really-O?

      Cogent questions from tallulah13. @Candida, can you provide a well reasoned response?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • Hi

      Thank you!

      This can be a good forum for respectful discussion about belief, faith and religion.

      Enough of the slurs, profanity and abusive language. That language actually says a lot more about the accuser than the victim.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
      • CatherineG

        Anybody who thinks "dimwit" is profanity has obviously never been to YouTube.

        August 27, 2013 at 3:11 am |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      There's nothing wrong with profane language.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

      Yes, contact me through the Twitter address;

      Daniel.Burke@cnn.com

      I don't really care whether you think profane language is kosher or not. It won't be tolerated in this forum. Bring it to my attention and I'll zap it.

      Yr Hmbl Srvnt,
      Daniel Burke

      June 29, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that – "There's nothing wrong with profane language."

      I agree...with one minor modification – There is nothing inherently wrong with profane language.

      Cheers

      June 29, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor –

      So, Daniel.Burke, in a previous post you asserted that you could demonstrate the fact that you are who you say you are by editing a post. Please confirm your identity by editing the line of text at the bottom of this post. I will immediately post the same line of text in a following post which you should leave untouched. I think that will suffice as proof for this forum's posters.

      "Four score and seven years ago our fathers & mothers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."

      DANIEL BURKE WUZ HERE.

      That enough for ya, Really-O?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Candida

      Yes, I can respond. First off, I am not a Christian. As I stated last night I practice Buddhism which I regard as a way of life, not a religion. Having said that, I respect all people and their religious beliefs, regardless of what I believe.

      The woman has been providing flowers to this gentleman for 9 years, she knew he was gay. She did not refuse to serve him as a client, she only refused to provide arrangements for his wedding which she believed is against her religious beliefs. I said last night and I will say it again, he could have respected that and moved on. Just as she accepted his being gay and served him for 9 years.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor –

      Do not edit this post...

      Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Well, Mr. Burke (Should that actually be you. I doubt it because the twitter account can be found by simply googling your name.), I hope that you will be a fair arbiter. The "faithful" of this blog have made some of the most vile, blatantly untrue and hateful comments that I have ever had the displeasure of reading. I hope that you don't allow your own beliefs to prejudice you against those who don't share your religion. .

      June 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Candida, it is against the law for a business to deny service because of sexual orientation. This woman chose to break this law and is being prosecuted because of it. Her religion has no bearing on the law.

      Why do you think that you only have to obey the laws you like? Why do you think that you are above the law of the land?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Candida –

      Fair enough. So, are you saying is that personal belief trumps the law and ethics? And as you identify as a Buddhist, how can Barronelle Stutzman's action be reconciled with Buddhist compassion?

      June 29, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Really-O?

      Apparently Mr. Daniel.Burke has disappeared after my challenge. Should I be surprised?

      I'm right here. I won't be in the forums 24/7, but rest assured I'll be here a lot.

      cheers,
      Daniel Burke

      June 29, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • Hi

      : tallulah13

      I've seen bad behavior by all. You have to be blind to proclaim it is just the "faithful".

      I'm "faithful" and I've had my name changed to "High" and been accused of being on drugs today. I've seen other people's names changed in similar fashion, and none of them are respectful or loving.

      Today I've be called dumb, a child abuser, and a liar.

      It is flat out hateful.

      You honestly can't see it from both sides? Is your heart that hardened?

      Is it only "hateful" if it doesn't match up with who you hate?

      Funny, he never mentioned a specific group when he talked about abusive behavior, but you seem to assume he is talking about your group.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Candida, you were asked last night about this: how is it you can sit safely in your home because gay firefighters, policemen and soldiers have made it possible for you to do so, yet deny them the same rights as everyone else enjoys? You didn't answer then, and I'll bet you can't answer now.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      Really-O?

      Still, as trolling goes, the guy put a lot of effort in, which is commendable in a pathetic way.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Hi, he said nothing about ridicule and scorn. There's no law against laughing at people like you.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      Hi

      I think most of us can agree that both sides contain complete jerks.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that – "Still, as trolling goes, the guy put a lot of effort in, which is commendable in a pathetic way."

      Agreed. Pathetic and creepy.

      June 29, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Hi

      :The real Tom

      "Hi, he said nothing about ridicule and scorn. There's no law against laughing at people like you."

      Yes, you are free to act as ugly as you want.

      He also said: "But I also see a lot of crudely worded personal attacks. Surely you can do better."

      I guess you can't do any better?

      Your vial language and hateful comments say a lot more about you!

      June 29, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that

      Hi

      Vile (not an attack, just being constructive).

      June 29, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Hi

      The real Tom

      How is it you can sit and safely post online 12 hours a day because Christian firefighters, policemen and soldiers have made it possible for you to do so, yet claim people who are Christians are liars and delusional?

      June 29, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • The real Tom

      @Hi, I don't give a rat's behind what you or anyone else thinks it "says" about me. Don't like it? Don't read my posts. Easy as changing the channel on TV. You can do that, can't you?

      June 29, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • The real Tom

      @Hi, How is it you "know" how much time I spend posting unless you are obsessively checking and/or are here just as much?And you wonder why people say you lie.

      Why don't you stick to the topic. Do you think the woman was within her legal rights to refuse service to the customer because she disapproves of gay marriage? Give legal precedent.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @DANIEL BURKE WUZ HERE. – "That enough for ya, Really-O?"

      I think that will suffice as evidence that you are a moderator (and that you don't follow direction well).

      Cheers

      I edited your text as well, if you look closely. But it's true, like many journalists, I don't like taking direction.

      Cheers,
      Daniel Burke

      June 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Hi

      I post on here sometimes, and you usually end up following me to other threads accusing me of being Chad/Rachel/Topher or whoever is your flavor of that day.

      I'm not any of those people.

      It is not a simple as changing the channels, you act like a troll.

      I usually read an article and briefly look at the comments. It seems like you are always in a heated argument, and often call others "Liars".

      Why don't you change the channel. Why are you so obsessed with Chad/Rachel/Topher or whoever is your flavor of that day?

      If it is so simple, why don't you do it!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Daniel Burke – "I edited your text as well"

      You did now – cheeky monkey. I think I like your style, Daniel.

      June 29, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Hi

      This is encouraging news!

      June 29, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor –

      Daniel, I have a sincere question and I believe your response will be of great interest to many on this forum. On May 23rd, 2013, this blog posted an article by John Stemberger entitled "My Take: Why my family is quitting the Boy Scouts", in which Mr Stemberger voiced controversial (some would characterize them as offensive) opinions. So, Daniel, why did this blogs moderators choose to disallow comments on Mr. Stemberger's controversial post? I anticipate your thoughtful response. Thank you.

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/my-take-why-my-family-is-quitting-the-boy-scouts/

      I'm not sure I ever got a straight answer on that, @OhReally. I'll look into it.

      Thanks,
      Daniel Burke

      June 29, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Hi, I'll do as I please and I don't care whether you like it or not. If you have posted under other names and I've called you on being an idiot, too bad. Get over it, or leave.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • The real Tom

      @Hi, now, why don't you stop with your pity party and address the topic: do you think the woman who owns the floral business was within her rights, legally and/or ethically, to refuse to serve the customer simply because he was gay and wanted to marry someone he loved?

      Would you have the same opinion if the couple had been interracial and straight? What's the difference?

      June 29, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Good question, Really-O. I too am curious as to why such a hostile, bigoted article was allowed to stand without commentary. Why is that sort of language protected while simple profanity is threatened with censorship?

      June 29, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • The real Tom

      By the way, "Hi," you accuse me of "following" you around. If I posted to you on other occasions, it certainly wasn't when you were posting as "Hi." So why change your screen name? If you don't like being suspected of doing that, why did you do it? Can you show me a post in which I accused you of being Chad or Topher? I'd like to know when that occurred and what screen name you were using at the time.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • The real Tom

      tally, I wondered at the time whether an author can insist that CNN not allow comments on an article as part of an agreement prior to publication.

      No, authors cannot do that. Like I said, I'll try to find out why comments were taken down.

      Thanks,
      Daniel Burke

      June 29, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      If you really can do something...it would be nice to be able to rid orselves of the auto editor that won't even let you use the word const!tutuion without modifying it because someone might get offended by the t!t, or h0m0$exual, or any of a long list...it is clearly easy enough to circ umvent so why have it in the first place...surely there is a more intuitive screen that can be used.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @The real Tom – "...agreement prior to publication"

      Personally, I would find it disheartening if a major news network allowed contributors to dictate how their business is conducted.

      Mr. Burke was quick to respond when I challenged his identity; let's see how quickly he responds when this blogs integrity is in question.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Really-O?

      ...and, yes, I realize I've neglected the possessive apostrophe twice in this thread when typing "blog's". Dangnabit.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • Saraswati

      I'd like to see some topics that touch on beliefs other than those in the Abrahamic traditions and materialistic atheism. When covering issues like "spiritual but not religious" perhaps report on studies that get at what that means to people. Also major trends in belief in other parts of the world, including China, Ja'pan and India. Really get at the beliefs and how changes from one generation to the next are affecting people.

      With regard to the main topics covered here, atheism and Christianity,I think more diversity would be good. Cover Unitarians and progressive Christians, as well as the right wing libertarian vs leftist atheist divide. Cover Christians who integrate eastern thought and meditation into their practice. I'd also like to see more discussion of religion as portrayed on television and movies (when not the central theme).

      And please fix your filter to exclude common words.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Really-O?

      ...and implementing a "Chad" filter would be nice. I'm just sayin'.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I certainly hope not, Tom. It implies a certain uncomfortable bias on the part of CNN if the author of such a hate-piece is allowed to dictate his own terms.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Daniel Burke – "I'm not sure I ever got a straight answer on that, @OhReally. I'll look into it."

      Thank you. You've proven yourself a straight-shooter and earned my respect. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

      June 29, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Science

      Really-O?...............Ok that was funny O' Chad filter .

      June 29, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • Hi

      I don't know if it is legally allowed. We have some bizarre laws. It doesn't sound very ethical.

      I personally would never support her business, but I think she should have the right to decide who to do business with.

      Would you have your same opinion if the couple had been KKK members? What is the difference?

      June 29, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Hi

      @ The real Tom

      "The real Tom

      By the way, "Hi," you accuse me of "following" you around. If I posted to you on other occasions, it certainly wasn't when you were posting as "Hi." So why change your screen name? If you don't like being suspected of doing that, why did you do it? Can you show me a post in which I accused you of being Chad or Topher? I'd like to know when that occurred and what screen name you were using at the time."

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/06/hear-what-valedictorian-said-for-cheers/comment-page-47/

      I was posting as "AE" for a few days.

      Here you are accusing me of being Austin.

      All I do is profess that God exists. And you start falsely accusing me of being a liar.

      Hmmmm...

      --
      "The real Tom

      AE aka Austin thinks he can judge others' character by reading their posts. I wonder what the kid thinks of HS, Gopher, Chad, faith, and lol??

      There's no evidence for the existence of a god and none at all that shows people cannot be moral, compassionate, generous, and kind without one. There's plenty of evidence that shows believers can be hateful and ignorant.

      So what good is belief?

      June 15, 2013 at 11:43 am "
      --

      I change my screen name because I'm trying to have an adult conversation. Not get into a name calling and demeaning argument with someone that holds resentments and then starts accusing me of being "Chard" or "Gopher".

      Are you seriously in your 50's and resort to changing a person's name from "Chad" to "Chard"?

      Seriously?

      WOW!

      June 29, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • Science

      Hi .......................HI

      Interesting !

      DNA tests reveal Prince William's Indian ancestry

      By Peter Wilkinson, CNN

      updated 12:48 PM EDT, Fri June 14, 2013

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/world/europe/britain-prince-william-india/?iref=obnetwork

      June 29, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
    • Science

      Hi..................HI...................Chomp from New York !

      Discovery Channel – Prehistoric New york

      Published on Mar 5, 2013 Creatures which lived in today's New York City? One of these is the short-faced bear or Arctodus simus, the largest North American land predator of the Ice Age discovered until now.Quali creature vissero nell'odierna città di New York? Una di queste è l'Orso dalla faccia corta o Arctodus simus, il più grande predatore terrestre nord americano dell'era glaciale scoperto sin ora.Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parody. "Fair use" is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of "fair use".

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj0cP3A9FFc&w=640&h=390]

      June 29, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • Science

      Hey lol??....................?...............^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?

      DNA tests reveal Prince William's Indian ancestry

      By Peter Wilkinson, CNN

      updated 12:48 PM EDT, Fri June 14, 2013

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/world/europe/britain-prince-william-india/?iref=obnetwork

      Nogod(Hey lol??....................?...............^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?

      DNA tests reveal Prince William's Indian ancestry

      By Peter Wilkinson, CNN

      updated 12:48 PM EDT, Fri June 14, 2013

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/world/europe/britain-prince-william-india/?iref=obnetwork

      No god(Hey lol??....................?...............^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?

      DNA tests reveal Prince William's Indian ancestry

      By Peter Wilkinson, CNN

      updated 12:48 PM EDT, Fri June 14, 2013

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/world/europe/britain-prince-william-india/?iref=obnetwork

      No god(s) test

      June 29, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
    • Science

      Really-O?.................well religion has no ethics it looks like.............just wondering about your comment.........

      about not being able to comment on article ?

      June 30, 2013 at 3:56 am |
  19. wayne

    Dear Mr Brown....the horse has left the barn.....save your hay.....

    June 29, 2013 at 11:26 am |
  20. CommonSense

    On jason's comment: "x is right humans create gods but "G" GOD IS and has always been."

    EGG IS and has always been. But here comes the chicken...

    June 29, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • lol??

      Who came first, the serpent or the egg??

      June 29, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • alex

      God laid the eggs that created serpents.

      June 29, 2013 at 11:25 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.