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July 14th, 2013
12:18 AM ET
Twitter theme: Zimmerman will face a higher JudgeBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - As news spread on social media of the not guilty verdict in the Trayvon Martin case, a religious theme soon emerged: Sooner or later, a higher authority will judge George Zimmerman Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, may have been the first to express a version of this theme:
Football star Adrian Peterson of the Minnesota Vikings echoed those words:
That view crossed racial lines. Christopher Epting, an Episcopal bishop in Chicago, simply said:
Joshua Dubois, the former director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Initiatives and a Pentecostal pastor, drew on the Bible for this tweet:
Author Shirley Strawberry cited the Bible as well.
Some, like singer Josiah Bell, seemed to take some solace in the idea of divine justice.
But others put a frustrated spin on the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s famous phrase about morality.
Soul singer Betty Wright drew flak for saying that Zimmerman will end up in hell.
Finally, some Christians noted the irony of this Sunday's Bible reading for many liturgical churches: The story of the Good Samaritan:
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  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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This is one of the appeals of religion, the idea that there is always justice, because even if it doesn't happen here in this life God will ensure there is justice in the next. But as with all religious beliefs there is no evidence to support this belief. People just believe it because they find it comforting.
But surely I say if a man floats while sumbersed in water, or if the marks upon his person be too close together must suffice as evidence of some evil.
Sumbersed? My dictionary doesn't have it. Yours?
lol??
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You're not as hot on justice as you think you are.
"Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Another big win for Flori-duh.
QUOTE from the article: "A religious theme soon emerged: Sooner or later, a higher authority will judge George Zimmerman."
WHY should anyone expect that?
If you truly believe in a Higher Authority (ie. God) why couldn't those who feel the Not Guilty verdict is acceptable... and feel that Zimmerman DID act in self-defense... and who feel that Martin WAS the aggressor and was threatening Zimmerman's life... likewise say that a Higher Power DID step in? And thus THAT is how Zimmerman not only survived the ordeal, but was delivered a Not Guilty verdict to continue on with his life.
Bottom line - You can't have it BOTH ways. You can't just assume that there is a Higher Power, and that it's ONLY on your side of things and NEVER disagrees with YOUR personal choices. Which means that you CAN'T say Zimmerman will answer to a Higher Authority, but then turn around and IGNORE the fact (or dodge the philosophical question) that a Higher Authority ALREADY picked a side and MADE a choice in this matter - and, again, that's why things have turned out as they have.
Well, you know they're going to counter with the 6th Commandment to justify their viewpoint.
Or that God's laws supersede Man's laws. Or whatever. Quite frankly, I don't understand it either...
There are a couple of things we can learn from the Bible. 1. The commandment 'do not kill'. That's an instruction not to kill another human being. No loopholes for self defense are mentioned. Infact there's advice to "turn the other cheek" when someone strikes you. 2. Obeying the government. Christians are instructed to obey the laws of the government they live under. However, self defense isn't an obligation, it's a right. You don't have to exercise it if you don't want to. I think the commandment not to kill would clearly supercede the legal right to defend oneself here.
The simplest answer is the correct one: There is no God.
Way too simple for the believers to grasp.
lol??
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Think that through with Boolean and drop the dialectic for a change. Show us the results. They should be much more creative.
Hey, kids! We can now reply to replies! Yay!
Yea, why is that feature sometimes missing? Strange.
As far as I know, this is the first time BB has featured reply to replies, and I've been here about a year. Eatocracy does, as well.
Cool.
Don't bother answering any of lol??'S posts. It just causes whole threads to be wisked away, and it isn't interested in civil discourse, only posting its misanthropy.
Yes, she is one of the village idiots, and sadly, this village has many. They are mostly Christian, but Reality likes to represent the other side in the idiot-a-thon.
Both sides are jammed full of idiots. It's quite difficult to find anybody on both sides who isn't a complete moron.
" It's quite difficult to find anybody on both sides who isn't a complete moron."
You are including yourself in this statement.
Better yet, don't even bother to read them.
Amen.
Same for "faith" who won't answer questions.
I don't read hers either. It kind of bewilders me that people who've been around a while bother with these folks.
lol??
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All woemen's lib is antichrist. How'd it wurk out fer Lizzbutt Trailer?? She was studyin' law at her end and nowhere near graduating.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
lol??
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Who's Mrs. Anthropy and is her hubby havin' a hard time rullin'?? If he doesn't get with the program he can't be a pastor.
lol??
You most likely voted left for the Big O and the executive branch saw nuthin' wrong with stirring up trouble in FL. Using the full weight of the media and public opinion and taxpayer money they decided to walk all over a citizen's rights.
The religious right in Florida called for a special prosecutor to be named. Get with the program, doof.
Your boy Rombot lostm you can either let it go, or stew in your bitterness, my little racist lollipop.
It was the governor of FL, Rick Scott that appointed a non-local SA. Scott is an hard right, NRA, Christian member of the GOP. Scott appointed another member of the GOP, Corey, as the special SA. So blame these two members of the GOP for not trusting the judgment of the local authorities.
IF Scott caved to Martin activist then it is Scott that you should try to recall.
I said it before, Scott for bein' a radar tech in the navy made a lot of money with his hospitals and creative billing. The Big O told Radar that he'd sick the NSA on him if he didn't cooperate.
lol??
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lol??
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Too bad zimmy is not a haemophiliac. That would satisfy the blood thirsty mob if he was dead, too.
Some of you have been asking why your comments are "awaiting moderation." That's an automatic feature of this blog once you've been reported for abuse a certain number of times. The blog co-editors have nothing to do with it. We don't even seen the comments awaiting approval until after they are reported.
Thanks,
Daniel Burke
Hey! I just noticed that we can reply to replies! Fantastic! Thanks!
I always like that feature on Eatocracy. Again, thanks!
Any chance you can tell us how many reports it takes to send a post to moderation?
Mob power is so seductive.
You seem to dig it, lol??.
Mr. Burke, I think you will regret adding the multiple thread layer feature. If you keep them, perhaps you could have a clearer way of showing hierarchy than just "tab" positions. Adjust the color or tone, perhaps, or something.
Thanks for considering
lol??
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lol??
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Bosty, before makin' all these ignorant accusations about slavery do a little research about the customs of the olden days. BTW, ever heard of indentured servants in the new world??
And why is it OK for the gubmint today to make slaves out of the Masters with all the DEBT??
Ask Bush and his getting us into two wars, which he had no funds or intention of paying for, merely by using the "God told me to do it" card. Do you think debt is erased with the election of a new POTUS?
Sorri aki, I'm not on speakin' terms with Bush, 'sides all of the nutsos in washington voted for revenge in those wars.
It's Akira. Please be respectful enough to use my full name, as I use your full name when I address you.
You favorite scapegoat inherited massive debt from his predecessor, in addition to the recession that he caused. Bush hung us out to dry. I highly doubt that the situation would be any different had McCain won, but I often wonder how different it would have been in Gore had won.
I highly doubt the Iraqi war would have even happened.
If only Zimmerman had just called 911 and let the police do their job, then nothing would have happened.
If only Zimmerman had listened to the 911 operator, then nothing would have happened.
If only Zimmerman had been carrying pepper spray instead of a gun, at worst this would have been a silly little dust-up that none of us would ever have heard of.
Whether or not he is truly innocent, his judgement sucks.
Did Zimmerman ever say why he said "This guy is up to no good" to 911? I have a hard time believing that was anything other than the sheer fact that Martin was black. Maybe he explained it. I pretty much ignored this trial.
lol??
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If only the Pearl Harbor military actually believed their radar screens.
The Bottom Line,
Yes, Zimmerman stupidly chose the absolute worst of his many options there; but, while we can't expect a 17 year-old to have extra wisdom, Trayvon had other options too. He could have called 911 and said he was being followed by a stranger. He could have just walked back over to the Recreation Building and waited for police. He could have gone to a well-lighted, more populated area of the complex for more safety... just to name a few...
Coulda, woulda, shoulda will not do a single thing to change this tragedy, but maybe others will learn from it to be wiser and to avert tragedies like this.
I doubt Martin had time to do any of that. Zimmerman was probably right in his face. Can't say for sure, but I really doubt Zimmerman was polite about it, and if you were suddenly confronted by a hostile guy demanding why you were somewhere you weren't supposed to be, wouldn't you tell him to fuck off?
Zimmerman repeatedly showed very poor judgement. He is exactly the kind of guy who should not be toting a gun. However, his family has strongly implied that he will continue to pack the same gun. I hope you aren't there when he imagines a threat again.
The Bottom Line is that Martin also showed poor judgement. He should of called 911 as soon as he saw GZ following him.
You see two can play this silly game. You're speculation is folly. No one knows that really happened that night.
Anyhow the jury has spoken.
The Bottom Line
"I doubt Martin had time to do any of that."
Yes, he did.
But you are speculating that Martin showed poor judgement. What is your evidence that he had time and opportunity to do so?
There was only 2 minutes between Zimmerman ending the 911 call and the policeman arriving to find Martin already unresponsive. Their actual contact was very short before struggle occurred.
The Bottom Line,
I have to leave right now, but I'm sure that you can easily find the transcripts of the trial, or other sources which delineate the timeline.
Best regards to you.
I agree. I think it sets a dangerous precedent.
If a so called 'god' is in control than why all the crying? What happened to Martin was all part of god's plan, right? . Thus there was no tragedy. If the black community wasn't so religious maybe that wouldn't be so behind the curve economically.
Oh, and didn't Martin's parents say that just having a trial was justice? Now they disagree with the jury’s verdict?
Anyhow, hopefully people will use their energy to try to get Florida SYG law changed. Also, maybe incompetent or bias police departments will do a better job during the initial stages in cases like this.
Good post. In jazz guitar veritas.
*biased
(if one has a bias, they are biased)
I'm amazed that so many people of apparent faith (and who have access to Twitter) think God is a God of social justice–only. Christ going to the cross meant salvation for all who choose to accept Him–including Zimmerman–just as it was for another famous murderer–the apostle Paul. You can believe Zimmerman will "get what's coming to him" because God is judge, but you might find that that isn't the case. In fact, I suspect you'll just be relieved that he's willing to forgive YOU.
Once again, there's that disturbing aspect of God: he only punishes people for not being toadies. Murderers welcome if they suck up.
Your God is shallow, vain, and unjust. Totally unworthy of worship. He needs a judge to judge his crappy behavior.
You're correct Bob; One has to be insane to worship a so called god that cares more about being worshiped than the character of his subjects.
Only in a selfish, prideful and spiteful world can love be interpreted as hate.
Hate? Nobody ever said anything about hate. What are you talking about?
Trying to change the subject when a legitimate argument has arisen?
If you are going to complain about the Christian religion atleast understand the basics of it. In Christianity Jesus is like the front door on a house. Now picture a house if all the doors and windows are locked. The only way into the house is the front door. It's not really about you, it's about the door to the house...get it? Arguments about no proof of any spiritual matters are another story entirely and for the life of me I don't know why the valid arguments are ignored over the invalid ones.
A Conversation; You're correct that it is silly for Christians that dislike Zimmerman to expect God to punish him.
But you're initial post made it clear that this so called 'god' will forgive as long as one worships him. Thus character doesn't matter. I assume you're a big fan of The Godfather III since the theme you raised is key to that movie.
Oh, and I don't hate any so called 'god'. It would be folly to hate something that may or may not even exist.
@Oh boy – But again, the way through the door is to be a toady of the doorman, who will not let you in if you are the best person in the world but who doesn't suck up. There is no way around the fact that your god has only one selection standard, and it is vain, shallow, and unjust.
It doesn't matter whether you agree with God's standards or not. Those are the conditions and they're all you've got. Throwing a tantrum won't change anything. Is pride really worth paying the ultimate penalty?
Well, ignoring your childish ad hominem, why would you kowtow before a shallow, vain and unjust god if it were not out of fear of punishment or greed for the afterlife? Those are very low motivations. If it's fear, then your god is a terrorist. If it's greed, you are vain too.
Michael; It has nothing to do with pride but instead creditability. Why would I want to worship such a god? No thanks.
If there is a so called higher power I highly doubt it would so shallow. Thus my gut tells me these are just a bunch of myths.
People typically worship God because they're thankful for being given life, and as they let Him in their hearts they forge a relationship with Him as their heavenly father, but like the relationship between a child and a father here on Earth there is also an element of fear and respect.
Michael; Most people worship a so called god because they were told by their parents that myths were truths. e.g. Santa. Of course most people mature to the point where they understand Santa was a myth. Sadly they don't mature enough to see that the other mumbo jumbo are also myths.
Are you the voice for "most people"? I doubt it.
Doesn't anybody see the irony in either loving or hating something that you can't proove is there?
Yes, it is silly have any feelings toward myths. Well other than a romantic one. i.e. I can understand why someone would wish for a loving god \ higher power.
Bob. There is an imaginary hole in my sink and unless you turn yourself into an elf and float down it you'll never get to transylvania. Doesn't that upset you? Same argument.
I'm not upset since I don't wish to go to transylvania anymore that I would this place Christians call heaven.
spiteful? you believe in an omniscient god who knows whether we will accept jeebus as a savior, but then punishes them for eternity if they do not believe in him. that is spiteful
And you can bet that nothing you said has any basis in fact or reality.
Great, let's have no more trials. If someone commits a crime, just trust that some deity is going to punish them.... after they are dead. Right.
If a person murders a few members of your family, what's the big deal, right? Who are we to judge? Part of the deific plan. No worries, it'll be taken care of. Sacrifices must be made.
So what if that murderer goes on to live until ninety and you get hit by a bus tomorrow. Well obviously that guy repented and you just didn't pray hard enough. Case dismissed, a murderer is way more valued in the kingdom than you are.
Living can be a worse punishment than dying depending on the life you get.
justice for all,
Please show us what you know about the Bible:
Jesus was asked which are the MOST IMPORTANT commandments.
Which one did he NOT think was one of the most important commandments?
(1) The Golden Rule
(2) Heteros3xual s3x sin by adultery
(3) H0mos3xual s3x sin
Good luck. Try not to look like a world class HYPOCRITE.
justice for all,
Still STUMPED?
Actually Jesus was not asked about the greatest commandments, in Matthew 22:36 Jesus is asked by a Pharisee which is the greatest commandment in the law.(singular)Thus your knowledge of the Bible proves faulty. But let us continue Vs. 37 Jesus replied "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. Vs.38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
justice for all,
Keep reading the Bible there. Is this the first time you've read it?
Still waiting for an answer. It's in the Bible. Try reading it more.
Avoiding the answer is fooling no one, not even you.
But let us probe further Vs. 39 And the second is like it: "love your neighbor as yourself" Which you will interpret and conclude is the end but it isn't. Jesus goes on to say Vs. 40 All the "Law" AND the Prophets hang on these two commandments. ALL THE LAW, the entire LAW of God including the laws that dealt with ho mose xuality, murder and ALL the sins. Jesus did not abolish the Law Jesus simplified the Law. When a crime is committed the penalty is still in effect. Jesus authored the law. The ho mose xual abomination still required a death sentence and still does as does every sin, not in hate but in justice for Love to be pure and Godly the sin must be punished. Period . The wages of sin is death. The gift of God is eternal life. Jesus paid the penalty, in order to be free of the requirements of the law you need to be under the Lordship of Christ.
I'm still waiting for someone to provide at least a shred of evidence that anything you believe here is true. All you have are the writings in a book, writings unsupported by any facts or evidence.
You tend to use the Bible to justify your sin and yet you are so often wrong about it's content such as mistaking commandment for commandments and yet you are quick to assume others do not know the full context. You are quite wrong in either approach and more the pity.
justice for all,
Wow! Still completely STUMPED!!
The answer is either 1), or 2), or 3).
Simple. Do you have some kind of reading comprehension problem?
Won't God be disappointed that you are stumped on an important Bible question about what Jesus said?
Since your original question was wrong I feel i have given you more than an adequate response. Sadly you cannot see the Truth even when it is placed before you.
justice for all,
lol. I knew you'd refuse to answer the question. Your phony excuses are just pitiful.
Still STUMPED? If you can't answer simple questions about the Bible, don't be a world class hypocrite and criticize others for not believing what you aren't even knowledgeable about.
Still no answer? Pathetic.
Using the Bible to justify bigotry of any kind is abusing the Bible. Live it, don't preach it. There is nothing worse that a Christian hypocrite who is convinced of their own pureness and righteousness. Justice for all? No. Your name makes a mockery of your motives.
Yes, George Zimmerman will face a higher judge. So will Trayvon Martin. So, for that matter, will you and I. On what basis do you presume what that judgement will be in any of those cases?
You're correct. For those that believe in some a so called 'god' and places like heaven and hell, they have no idea how either TM or GZ will be judged. If TM indeed attacked GZ and was trying to kill him then he will be sent to hell. If GZ killed TM without being in fear for his life than he will be sent to hell.
But most likely these mystical places don’t exist. As for my opinion on this case; I’m agnostic. I have no opinion since what really happened that night is unknown.
justice for all,
Your enthusiasm for strict parental discipline in the bible begs the question, do you also agree with biblical slavery policies?
In the human imperfection there has always been a slavery. The Bible outlines the proper guidelines for slavery. I accept myself as a slave to Christ. Do I agree with biblical slavery? Yes.
You honestly believe that it is acceptable for one human to own another?
As "justice" proves yet again, sanity is not a Christian attribute.
Justice for all,
I appreciate your honesty and I'd call your response courageous if it were not anonymous. It still shows your strict adherence to biblical morality to be out of touch with American (and most other societies) values. That's probably ok with you since you m ay find god's laws and values more important.
If Saint Bush hadn't gotten us into two phony wars, completely unfunded, on the basis of "God told me to do it", we might be having a completely different convo right now, lol??. If Bush hadn't made it so easy to outsource our manufacturing, we might have a different convo. But, alas, he did, and you still embrace the "gubmint" passing garbage that YOU agree with. Hypocrite.
@justice
You claim slavery is a human imperfection yet the supposed word of a deity outlines how it's supposed to be done?
It's truly amazing how many hours everyday that lol??/faith/Atheism is not . . . spends here. I wonder if she ever gets out of her dilapidated RV. Maybe she is so obese and trapped by all the K-Tel crap she has horded that she can't get out of it anymore.
Thanks Score...
cleaning my keyboard and monitor now.....
The American justice system has always been more about protecting the innocent than punishing the guilty. The evidence system, court processes, etc make it hard to get a conviction. This is intentional. The outcome in this case should not be a surprise. I for one don't want to return to a time where the Govt can use courts to imprison people who they don't like.
There just plain wasn't enough evidence to support either side's version of events, in which case a jury must acquit. Happens all the time. Look at O. J. and so many mafia trials.
The American system is indeed structured to err on the side of freeing a few guilty people instead of imprisoning a few guilty people (but that still happens, of course).
Zimmerman failed to prove his claim too.
@ Thelonius: Zimmerman had no claim to prove, nor any obligation to prove anything. It's up to the state to prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. Clearly the jurors had reasonable doubt. Therefore, they acquitted.
LOL is right that there are too many laws. So why is the silly GOP passing more and more anti-abortion laws. Talk about govern ment sticking their nose where it doesn't belong.
Yes, jazzguitarman, true; but I would bet that there would be little to no kvetching about the government passing too many laws if the laws people like lol?? agree with were passed. People need to remember that while the government can pass legislation to force births, they can just as easily pass legislation to force abortions.
With all of the problems facing our country, why the emphasis on abortion in the first place mystifies me. This isn't even close to being the worst problem we face.
Christianity is a pretty cool guy! He never intervenes and doesnt afraid to judge anybody!
I doesn't afraid to judges anybody no how neither. Can I has cheezeburger?
So exactly what was the evidence that Martin started the fight? I have been unable to find any witnesses to show that he threw the first punch. All I've seen is witness accounts of Zimmerman losing the fight, then shooting Martin. Please, could someone clear this up for me? How do they know that Martin started the fight?
It's not a matter of whatevidence is there but of what was missing for the contrary argument.
That's what I thought. So basically, Zimmerman could claim whatever he wanted, since he killed the only other witness.
Even if Martin lived it would still be just one person's word against another. Those cases are always hard to argue.
Yeah, but at least he'd be alive to tell his story.
Thank God that the system works. Thank you George for keeping the streets safe. It isn't about what color we are its about doing the right thing. The system saw past the racial tension and made a clear verdict.
Please explain how Zimmerman's actions keep the streets safe. At the worst, he killed an innocent child. At the best, he failed to follow law enforcement instructions and broke several neighborhood watch procedures.
Safe from children with snacks!! What world do you live in?
Seriously? Even the people who are glad of a not guilty verdict generally agree Zimmerman is an idiot. I suspect his own family thinks he's an idiot. Murderer? Likely not, but menace who should never again carry a gun? Definitely.
I hope, Paul, that someday you come face to face with an idiot with a gun who is convinced (because of what you are wearing) that you are a criminal. Perhaps that will give you perspective.
I wonder how this would have turned out if Florida had "Involuntary Manslaughter" as an option? I know it would still have come down to whether it was self defense, but I have a suspi.cion that the jury might have considered Zimmerman's recklessness and imprudence more heavily.
In Canada you cannot carry a handgun and must allow the minority to beat you to death.
justice for all,
How many mass-shootings have they had in Canada?
As opposed to mass murders? There are a lot of mass murderers in Canada in spite of the fact that Canadians do not have the right to bear arms. (They do not have the right to free speech or assembly in Canada either.)
I do have to commend Zimmerman for his courtroom behavior, however. He was serious and solemn throughout it all - including his sober reaction to the verdict in his favor. Perhaps he was coached to do this, but I'm sure that other defendants in the past have been given this advice and were not able to follow it this well.
I thing Justice is pulling your leg. Perhaps I'm an optimist, but few people are that stupid in real life.
I'm sure whatever country "justice for all" would be happy in would be a piss-hole compared to Canada.
@wonder, yes, he did behave appropriately in court. He would be wise to continue to follow this advice over the next few years.
So JFA will not answer simple questions abou his cult's beliefs because I am not an American but he feels free to comment (in error) on Canada. What a cowardly mentally ill delusional hypocrite!