By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN) - They were trying to prove a simple point: That nonbelievers are a bigger and more diverse group than previously imagined.
"We sort of woke a sleeping giant," says Christopher F. Silver, a researcher at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. "We're a bit overwhelmed actually."
Silver and his project manager, Thomas Coleman, recently released a study proposing six different types of nonbelievers - from strident atheists to people who observe religious rituals while doubting the divine.
The study clearly struck a chord, particularly among triumphal atheists and uneasy believers. Articles appeared in in Polish, German, Russian and Portuguese, Silver said.
Here on CNN.com, our story "Behold, the Six Types of Atheists" garnered about 3.14 gazillion hits and thousands of comments.
Half the fun seemed to lie in atheists applying the categories to themselves, kind of like a personality test.
"I guess I'm a 1-2-4 atheist," ran a typical comment.
Other commenters questioned the study's categories, methods, and even the religious beliefs of its authors.
Silver and Coleman agreed to answer our readers' questions via email from Tennessee. Some of their answers have been edited for length and clarity.
Q: Several readers asked how you came up with your six categories of atheists?
A: In a sense we let the participants inform our theory.
The categories were devised from a series of 59 interviews conducted with people nationwide who don’t believe in God. Participants were asked to define various terms of nonbelief as well as their own religious views.
We also asked participants to tell us their stories and how their religious views have changed over time. We found the most commonly repeated stories and descriptions and formed them into types.
We then used those types in the survey portion of the project. Each of the six categories proved to be statistically unique in a wide array of psychological measures.
Q: @PaulTK asks: Are atheists limited to the six categories your study proposes?
A: We suspect that further research exploring people who don't believe in God will certainly expand the number of categories and fill in more details about the six we've named.
For example, we found that the Intellectual Academic Atheist type may produce a 7th type reflecting those who are more "philosophically orientated" versus those who are more "scientifically orientated."
Our study also gives some evidence that individuals may not believe in God but still identify with religion or spirituality in some way.
Q: @JessBertapelle asks: Can people fit into more than one category?
A: The typology of nonbelief is fluid. Based on our interviews, we suspect people transverse the various types over the course of their lives. Since we did not conduct a longitudinal design (a study conducted over time tracking the same people) we are unable to validate this assumption.
For those of you who found yourselves agreeing with multiple positions, you may find characteristics that you identify with in all types but there is likely one type which is your preference.
Q: @Melissa asks: Why isn't there a category for "closet atheists"?
A: This is an excellent question. Many of our interviews were done in strict confidence where the participant’s own parents, spouses, or children had no idea they were participating in the study. One participant hid in the back of her closet because she did not want her parents to discover she is an atheist.
But while there were plenty of “closeted” participants, they didn't agree in how they describe their religious views. That is, they ranged across a variety of our six types.
Q: stew4248 asks: How is this any different than religious divisiveness?
A: There is vast diversity among religious believers, but it's unclear if such diversity exists within nonbelief.
We do know that the Antitheist category has much in common with religious fundamentalism. Likewise the Intellectual atheism/Agnosticism type has a lot in common with intellectual theology, although they are clearly not the same.
Q: How did you find the participants for the study?
Participants were recruited through nonbelief communities across the country. They were recruited face-to-face, through snowball sampling (participants sharing the study with friends), and through the Internet.
Project manager Thomas J. Coleman III is well known in the atheist community because he is suing the Hamilton County (Tennessee) Commission for their involvement in divisive sectarian prayer at meetings. His reputation helped locate “closeted” atheists to participate.
The regional breakdown of participants is presented on the project website.
Q: A number of readers have also asked about your own religious affiliations, if you don't mind.
Christopher F. Silver answers:
I was born and raised in the rural South to a deeply religious Methodist family. In my hometown everyone was Christian. As was the case for many in our study, during college I was introduced to people from different cultures and ideologies. I was interested in studying different faith traditions and why people believe.
In many respects, research for this was a selfish enterprise for me. There is nothing more transformative than sitting with someone as they share their life story with you. Today I consider myself an agnostic in the real philosophical sense. The more I learn, the more I recognize the extensiveness of my ignorance.
Thomas J Coleman III answers:
My mother has been active in the Methodist church as a choir member and pianist for most of her life. My grandparents were very active in the church and went every Sunday. Growing up, I would often go as well.
But for me, “religion” was always something that other people did. I prefer to identify as a secular humanist.
Silver and Coleman would like to point out that their study was supported and conducted in collaboration with the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Department of Psychology and the Doctorate in Learning and Leadership.
Here's a little interesting FACT your Ministers or Teachers have ever told you Creationist ,, but your Creator had a hand in this Life or Death FACT when it comes to Organ Donor, Blood Transfusion and EVERY Childbirth in the world.
85% of our world population has this RH+ POSITIVE Factor in their blood type,,,, Its the RHesus Monkey Antigen/Protein, for that is the ONLY reason anyone's blood type would be either O+, A+, B+ or AB+. The (+) means your blood tested POSITIVE for the RH'esus Monkey Gene (RH+).The same breed Chimp sent up into Space by USA & Russia and is tested on by Scientist for Big Pharmaceuticals.
15% of us test(-) NEGATIVE for the RH'esus Monkey Gene or Antigen making us either O-, A-, B- or AB- (RH-).
The more Religious, ProWar, Anti'Choice,, the more RHesus Monkey Protein running through Ones blood stream. RH+ are the actual MISSING LINK.
Basque make up the largest % of people that are RH-NEGATIVE.
Karl Landsteiner (Nobel Prize Winner)
Atheism is a religion. All of your "types," except agnostics (who AREN'T atheists) have faith that there is no supreme being. They cannot prove that there isn't one, but their belief system allows no alternative. No different really than the zealous Baptist or the proselytizing Muslim.
You're a moron. :)
Atheism is not a religion. Religion requires a belief in a supernatural being or spirit or diety. Atheism is the absense of this supernatural being. Saying that Atheism is a religion is like saying "not playing baseball" is a sport. It's like saying bald is a new color of hair.
Actually, religion does not require a supernatural being. Religion is simply a common belief that binds people together. It could be argued that, in America, football is a type of religion with thousands banding together every week to worship their deities...um, I mean teams. By this logic, atheism is also a religion.
Religion binds people together so they can fly planes into buildings, blow up clinics, drop bombs on another country, to enslaves millions, gas millions, treat women like livestock, etc...
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."Steven Weinberg
Here's the greatest debate where the audience is allow to vote on youtube
This was an Epic moment in our world for Free Thinkers!!!
I would agree that religion doesn't require a supernatural being, but I would dispute football being a religion. Atheism cannot be a religion unless a belief in natural continuation accompanies it, and at this point it's no longer just atheism.
I've never been able to understand the mentality of people who on one hand, think religion is a great thing, then on the other hand, they hate atheism, but yet they try to equate the two!
There's something infantile about it. It's kind of like–"You are too, so there!!" Or, "you tattled on me, so I'm going to tattle on you!"
Religion is an organized system of supernatural beliefs–particularly in some sort of god or gods, atheism is–precisely NOT that! Using the definition of "religion" that some theists appear to be using in their desperate attempt to equate atheism with religion, one could call all sorts of things a "religion"–like Capitalism for example.
Let me make it perfectly clear to everyone:
1. Atheism is NOT a religion.
2. Atheists do not believe that God exists.
3. There is no God
4. Therefore, atheists are correct.
JonO is yet another christian who has no idea what he is talking about. Not believing in god is a fairly simple concept, but perhaps it's too complex for those who are so deeply vested in believing that they have no idea how not to believe.
CASE HUMAN RACE STUDIES IN VENEZUELA, NICOLAS MADURO CITIZEN SELL TO AGENCIE, TO ROB GENETICAL INFORMATION.
CASE HUMAN RACE STUDIES IN VENEZUELA, NICOLAS MADURO CITIZEN SELL TO AGENCIE, TO ROB GENETICAL INFORMATION.
Six and a half. Or six and three quarters
Did dinosaurs and man co-exist? Watch this and decide for yourself. I never saw it before, but I am glad I recently found it on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvHII6Vv06s
Yeah cuz dinosaurs were all over cave paintings. Fool.
Again, more false claim – from the video – not all. There is a great interview between Christians regarding young/old earth theories. Quite interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgueGotRqbM . One guy Ken Ham who is about as literal as you can get – although does say that there is some interpretation. Goes back and forth, and as I don't believe in the Christian God it is interesting to see the struggle.
1. There is no God.
2. I hate him!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So,we're diverse (not unified)? I get it now.
Don't bother responding to this troll. He/she posts this same thing on many of the articles and has been set straight numerous times.
(she/he can't spell correctly either... pffft!)
But he speaks the truth, and the truth shall not be silenced.
But he should spell tenet correctly, don't you think?
I don't even care if he spells God, "Gawd"
I wish I could see every atheist's face when they die and there soul is sent to hell.....morbid yes, but I just would like to see it :)
I suspect the Christian hell holds a place for sickos who would wish for such twisted things. I know an infinite number of other possible hells sure have such a spot waiting.
ODD BALL - nice name by the way - I'm sure you'd like to see it. I would personally like to see pixies dancing on the head of pin, but that won't happen either.
WRONG# Summer of 2000, 2 drops of PurpleAcid and 12 pixies dancing on the head of..nope your rite it wasn't a pin at all!
Wishing torment on a fellow human being, how Christian of you. For tens of thousands of years Atheists have been persecuted for not buying into the paranormal protection racket of the time. Your group is just the latest to try and fail, which explains the paranoia. Must suck to live in fear.
Then pray for that, then. Supposedly, if you pray with enough faith, god will give you your desires. Enjoy the show; your god will.
When Santa Claus comes to town and does't bring you any toys, Ill be laughing at you.
Actually, I've seen Santa at the maul. I even saw him grab the ass of a little girl when her mother wasn't watching. But I've never seen God.
You should read the history of myth and religion and the evolution of myth in humanity.
Then read Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill on the christian myth..
That's what the Romans used to say about Zeus and my mother used to say about the tooth fairy. I love her to death, but she was as wrong about the tooth fairy as you are about a mythical God in the Heavens.
photo.. read the book... it tells how the ROMAN Flavian family created the christian myth using the Jewish myth as its root and why.... the christian myth is a scam... a lie... a political tool just as it is used today... That is why it was created.. as a tool to control the masses using supernatural tales as its foundation... combining older myths to create a new one..
Uhm, according to everyone elses religions you are going to hell. Good thing yours is the only one that could possibly be right...
the myth that there is a life after death is a old but never proven one. The older myths like Hindu, believe in reincarnation.. that you come back as another species... also not proven... humanity has created my myths with many strange ideas on how to deal with death and tie it to a consequence of how the person lived. It is not more valid than if you assumed the same for all other life on this planet.. there is no life after death... there are no gods, heavens , h3lls etc.. is all just primitive stories to feed the fear of death.. to one degree or another. Believing in a death myth or the supernatural does not make it real....fanciful stories...of the supernatural are not real... Read Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill on how the Christian myth was created from the Jewish one.... myth making is a political tool to control the masses.
It's "their," not "there," Odd Ball.
He's so sure he's right about God, Heaven and what happens to you when you did, but he's not quite sure how you spell "their."
Just as I am sure Jesus would have said it.... idiot. The difference is I wish good will to all – and will work for it – even though I don't believe id Dog, but you do believe in him, and will ill will on others??
Did your God tell you he created 85% Humans from a Monkey Gene called the RH FACTOR for that is the ONLY reason anyone's blood type would be either O+, A+, B+ or AB+. The (+) means your blood tested POSITIVE for the RHesus Monkey?? This fact is extremely important when it comes to Blood Transfusions, Organ Donations and before every Child Birth.
Did he tell you why he didn't create 97.5% of earth's water drinkable for his children too??
i.e. salt water? Cool!
I wish I could see every theist's face when they realize they're partly to blame for the creation of hell.
The churches have taught that there is a "hellfire" for centuries, but the Bible does not. Through a misrendering of the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus, they have been rendered as "Hell" and "Hellfire" in many Bibles such as the King James Bible.(Matt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 2 Pet 2:4)
The Hebrew word Sheol means the same as the Greek word Hades, with both meaning the common grave of mankind, not a place of fiery torment. The Greek word Gehenna has the meaning of everlasting destruction (Matt 5:22; 10:28), and in which a person is placed in this position by God, will never return to life, but is dead forever.
The Greek word Tartarus is used only once in the Bible at 2 Peter 2:4, and has the meaning of an abased condition, whereby Satan and his demons are placed there, being cut off from our Creator, Jehovah God, both physically and spiritually.
The word "hell" is actually derived from an old English word that means to "conceal". Hence, when the King James Bible was written in 1611, to "hell" potatoes was to bury them in the ground or cellar, not roast them.
Maybe you can sit in a circle jerk with god while you watch.
I find it quite humorous that Atheist who dont believe in anything are so on fire angry at those who do.
stop being hateful humans........live and let live :) I respect everyones right to believe in what they want but strangley enough its the atheist who get butt hurt and bent out of shape over those that do...
I don't really care what you believe as long as you keep your religion to yourself. Many theists want their religion to be the basis of society and law and that is an imposition on those who do not subscribe to that religion. There are many christians pushing local laws that ban sharia law while at the same time pushing christian belief into law and common practice.
Butt hurt? Sure you're not thinking of the Catholic Church?
Wait a second, so you say that you want to see these people being tortured and watch the looks on their faces as they are, yet you have the audacity to call them hateful humans? Really? Projection much?
This is rich coming from a person who just said "I wish I could see every atheist's face when they die and there soul is sent to hell.....morbid yes, but I just would like to see it".
And we're the hateful ones? This is so typical of all too many Christians.
Blacks got what they wanted, gays got what they wanted, not its Atheists turn in line for what they want in America. You ain't seen nothing yet. Bigots will and Bible-thumpers will fondly look back at the days when when it was just Blacks and Gays wanting their rights respected in thie country.
Are you saying that black, gay atheists are finally going to get a fair shake in this nation?
Yesterday morning there was a knock at my door. A pleasant and enthusiastic young couple were there.
John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"
John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the guts out of you."
Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."
Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."
Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"
John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the guts out of you."
Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"
John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"
Mary: "Well, maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."
Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"
John: "In this town, Hank is the same as good luck. All good things are attributed to Hank'"
Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the guts out of you."
Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."
Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"
John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me: "Who's Karl?"
Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
From the Desk of Karl
1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the guts out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the guts out of you.
Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."
Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the guts out of people just because they're different?"
Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me: "How do you figure that?"
Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."
Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."
Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
Me: "I'm not really an expert, but not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it plausible that it might be made of cheese."
John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists don’t know everything, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me: "We do?"
Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."
Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"
John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."
Me: "But...oh, never mind.
Dyslexic ... something tells me you don't date much
Omgosh, this is hilarious! I'm actually a devout Christian and just came back from serving a two year mission for my church but I can appreciate good humor. :P Thanks for posting!
Old Hank stories have been around for a long time.... Like IPU.... look that up on the net too. But now there is more info on Christian myth that is available.. and well.. more serious and verifiable.
Read Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill. Check out his web site and YouTube site. The video is good too. but you need to read the book.. and soon to be out The Single Strand...
Google Warning Second Coming. You will find Truth
" You will find Truth "
The main difference among the different categories of atheist, is how they deal with the abrasive, obnoxious Jesus Schmucks around them.
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Good Morning, Vietnam
For the A&A's that had Bozo as a dad and who played the 6 bit bucket game, you still have a slight chance of getting a prize.
Now for a song.
Well I pulled outta Pittsburgh a rollin' down that Eastern Seaboard
I got my diesel wound up and she's a runnin' like a never before
There's a speed zone ahead alright I don't see a cop in sight
Six days on the road and I'm a gonna make it home tonight
I got my ten forward gears and a Georgia overdrive
I'm takin' little white pills and my eyes are open wide
I just passed a Jimmy and a White I been a passin' everything in sight
Six days on the road and I'm a gonna make it home tonight
Well it seems like a month since I kissed my baby goodbye
I could have a lotta women but I'm not like a some other guys
I could find one to hold me tight but I could never make believe it's alright
Six days on the road and I'm a gonna make it home tonight.......
Have any of you "BELIEVERS" ever listened to a debate on religion? Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfBanmw2ecQ&list=TLBssQL4aAeNk Unfortunately, most of you are Christians, so you will probably disagree with BOTH speakers, one of the greatest outspoken atheists of all time, Christopher Hitchens, and a Rabbi. You must feel so alone watching both of these fine speakers express opinions that you don't.
Why dont u stop being a ball full of hate and just be at peace with your lack of belief in any deity. Its people like you who like to SHOVE beliefs in nothing down peoples throat that give athiesm a bad name...away with u ! go back under the rock u crawled out from
ODD BALL, if that's your real name, it's religion that gives atheism a bad name, so be gone.
I've had plenty of polyester prophets of fuller brush gods show up at my door, never an atheist .
Interesting read (most of it anyway).
Just to set the stage, I believe religion has no place in government. I believe there are good people who are of various religions and also are atheists. If faith is good for you & you think you are better for having it, good for you and I won't think any less of you, as long as your are respectful of me.
For those who cannot live & let live as atheists, I ask you....
1) What is it you hope to achieve by impressing your dis-belief on those who believe? Is it that you will then be "right"? That seems really selfish if that is the case and especially if the actions of the newly disbelieving stay otherwise the same as before when they believed.
2) If you were to replace the "church" with "Wal-Mart", "a sports team" or "exercise", would you blanket the entire population of persons who support those as you would a church? For that matter, insert your own profession as I am sure there are criminals amongst your profession. Look around, you should already be doing that with the same distain & bitterness that you have shown in this blog.
3) Be accepting of some ones well wishes towards you. As seen elsewhere in this blog, are you offended by "break a leg" if you aren't an actor? Are you upset by someone who throws coins in a fountain for a wish, crosses their fingers for good luck, blows out birthday candles after making a wish or how about someone who says, "salu" when they toast a gathering of friends? If you are an atheist, just accept that a "prayer" is the same thing as those, from someone that cares about you, even though you have a different idea about faith.
What I would like to see is that the tolerance you want from believers, be demonstrated by you and show them the "right" way to behave towards others and quit being prejudice of others. (In other words, quit embarrassing well behaved and good meaning atheists! Spend your efforts on getting criminals prosecuted, regardless of faith/belief or non-belief. Seriously, you're embarrassing us!
Thank you for your reasonable post. I would like to two things.
First, it would seem that one of the goals of the atheist, and particularly scientific, communities would be for more believers to understand, accept and respect science, in various areas. Yet when scientifically-minded atheists engage in condescension, dismissal and mean-spiritedness, they drive more believers AWAY.
Second, since, as you suggest, Christians are not a monolithic group, there are millions of Christians who have similar views to most atheists with respect to a number of socio-political issues. Yet, again, by engaging in condescension, dismissal and mean-spiritedness, many atheists alienate millions of potential allies.
Thus, the approach of many atheists, is hopelessly counter-productive.
you mean atheists are condescending and mean when they point out inconstancies and outright lies thrown around by some believers like yourself. Any opposition to the religious money machine is seen as an unwarranted attack.
No, they are condescending and mean when they are...condescending and mean. Intelligent discourse, even with people with whom one disagrees, should be done with humility and respect – even if the other side is not exhibiting the same humility and respect. I do not expect you to agree with my belief, or with some or many of the things I say or the positions I take. But none of that is cause for condescension or meanness. If YOU cannot be civil, don't blame it on the other person. Peace.
The instant you use disinformation, intelligent discourse goes out the window....beyond setting the record straight all that remains is to ridicule the attempt. Nobody should ever respect a liar.
Discourse is usually reserved for compromise (that is, to find a middle ground). Since atheism is based on evidence and believers says "*#%#&%#* the evidence, I trust faith," there isn't much room for compromise. So why debate?
If you allow only one side to be heard...you will get one side...and that's it...That hasn't exactly worked out for non believers in the past few centuries. The problem is when faced with the truth, superst ition crumbles. Why is it btw, that non believers should be the ones to shut up-to not debate?
Please point out where I have "lied."
I have been involved in both believers & non-believers discussions in which they turn hateful & condescending...and sometimes name calling when they run out of constructive things to say. If you don't want to contribute to "money machines" I suggest you avoid contributing to them. Be realistic and evaluate who you support as you shop or worship, if you worship.
So far, it seams folks are still focused on belief /non-belief as the issue when I really think it should be on what is the negative activity that needs to be addressed, regardless of belief status. Pedophiles? Terrorism? Tax evasion?......
What I find funny are many of the comments saying athiests are rude and don't want to talk openly and are more condescending. I have found the exact opposite to be true in my personal experience. I think a lot of these posts are stereotyping or generalizing, which is not surprising. We all do that.
"Intelligent discourse, even with people with whom one disagrees, should be done with humility and respect – even if the other side is not exhibiting the same humility and respect."
There are two problems I have with this.
First, it's ridiculous to demand that one side hold themselves up to a standard the other side will not. If I engage in a discussion with a theist and they ridicule my beliefs I am sure gonna return favor.
Second, it's hard to have a conversation with most theists when there is not even agreement on the language being used. I'll explain by way of this paraphrased conversation I typically have.
Theist: So you don't believe in god, huh?
Theist: Why not?
Me: Because up until now I have not been presented with sufficient evidence to support the claim of their being a god.
Theist: Lack of evidence!?! Open your eyes! All of creation is proof of god's magnificence and existence!
I post about atheism, not to change the minds of Christians, but to voice alternatives to religion, for the "undecided voters" who may be reading these comments.
Your comment frames atheists as aggresive promoters of their ideas, and Christians as gentle praying folk. Let's not forget that for hundreds of years, and right up to the present day Christians have scoured the planet looking for pagans, and jews, and infedels, in order to impose their beliefs on them.
Where was their "acceptance" of other people's beliefs? Why did they need to be "right"?
You are free to lecture atheists for being too forceful, but the believer / nonbeliever debate is a valuable one, and needs to continue, even if it makes you uncomfortable.
Search and replace "infedels" with "infidels".
Precisely my point! Condescension, dismissal and mean-spiritedness offers no constructive support to coexistence whether made by believers or nonbelievers. It seems that the Atheist who are insistent on insulting and stating mean-spirited comments of believers are the ones who get all the publicity! It is difficult to be seen in any other way when that is what the media has to present.
Regardless of the topic, I suspect more people are apt to consider a calm and politely delivered message vs. a message that is being yelled and insulting.. Facts are that the US is predominantly occupied by folks with some form of religious belief.
It is the loud & confrontational (believers & atheists alike) that seem to feel they are supreme and drive a wedge into what could be a peaceful relationship with a majority of believers.
In the US we are "free" to do many things, but not all things are productive in achieving our goals of being treated as equals, regardless of our non-beliefs.
I agree that it goes both ways, and that reasoned discourse is the only way to influence people. That's why I triple-check everything I post to make sure it doesn't contain insults, personal attacks, or personal accusations.
My reaction to most posts from atheists on this blog is: "Stay off my side!"
EnjaySea: "My reaction to most posts from atheists on this blog is: 'Stay off my side!'"
LOL! I appreciate and applaud your comment. Bravo.
I would add the above article's comparison of some atheists to religious fundamentalism which I think is a very accurate statement. Just like the crazy pushy self-righteous Christians, Muslims and what not, there are obviously the same ilk in the atheism crowd. It's unfortunate that they are loud enough to "seem" to some that they represent the entire community.
If certain atheists weren't loud, you would never know their names, and their message would have been drowned out - long ago - by the religious message that's drummed into every American's ears since childhood. If John F. Kennedy had whispered, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" into the ears of his children instead of loudly on national television, would you even know he said it? KEEP YELLING ATHEISTS!!!!
I agree that we need to be loud. I just don't think we need to be mean.
Believe me, not all atheists are "on your side".
I believe you.
photografr7: Perhaps you miss the irony in your citing of JFK's quote. After all, JFK was a practicing Catholic, and his quote was a paraphrase of something Jesus said. LOL.
If J.F.K. was a practicing Catholic, it just proves one thing: Not all Catholics are bad.
photog: Can I quote you on that? LOL.
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. In a country where most are religious, somehow, you are a victim to atheists? Somehow we are loud? You guys are the ones screaming from your pulpits. And if that isn't loud enough, you broadcast yourselves from sea to shining sea. And if that isn't loud enough, you'll send little minion missionaries around the world to do the proverbial screaming for them. If atheists have any disdain for religion, it is because of all the harm religion does around the world and the inherent discrimination that we face every day by the likes of people, like you. Fact: Amidst any subgroup in America, considering race and religion, it is the atheist that got the most votes as the person you would not vote for as President. That isn't based on substance, morality, ethics, or policy. Strictly based on the color of skin, or the religious orientation, it is atheism that suffers the most prejudice. You even showed your bias in your post. Atheists should just shut up and be happy when someone wants to offer them a prayer? WHY? It isn't my religion! How arrogant of the religious to think that I should just be grateful.
It's easy for someone in the majority to make these claims of calmness and peace but that is not what us atheists see coming from the other side either. Were religious people promoting peace when they voted down gay marriage (a civil rights issue, opponents of which will be viewed in the same light as the opponents against civil rights in the 50s and 60s) You are just so comfortable in the majority, you can't see the prejudice and bias you put on people that aren't like you. Besides, you consider my beliefs inherently negative because I am telling you, "You are wrong, you pray to nothing, you fast for nothing, you are organic matter that will die and then rot." Surely, I don't say it in those words, but religious people don't like to read between the lines of an atheist. It's just that simple.
Well said, my man.
Between which affairs was JFK a practicing catholic?
One thing is certain. There are No dead atheists.
You mean I'll live forever? Thanks for the "good news:"!!
Aw, Jimmy. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but everybody dies. Christians, atheists, agnostics, muslims, hindus... Everybody dies, and that all there is. At least, that's what all the real evidence indicates. Fairy tales can't protect you from reality.
I think what he meant to say was, "No one dies AN ATHEIST." Meaning, all atheists "see the light" on their death bed. I assure you I won't, but no one more than me wants to be gently removed from my mystery to a place of eternal love and joy. Ain't happenin' .... But if I'm wrong, you'll never know it!
Oh, I know what he meant. But his silly comment had more than one meaning, and I chose to address the other.
I find it amusing that no one has really answered this, except to say that they want "believers" to know there is the option of not being a "believer". It seems even in this blog, folks are still more interested in dispelling a myth than addressing ill-will or bad behaviors. What are those behaviors that are ONLY demonstrated by "believers" that will miraculously be changed & society will no longer deal with, when they stop believing?
I ask this one more time....
1) What is it you hope to achieve by impressing your dis-belief on those who believe? Is it that you will then be "right"? That seems really selfish if that is the case and especially if the actions of the newly disbelieving stay otherwise the same as before when they believed.
If children were playing with fire because they didn't know any better, or if a dogs were about to drink poison thinking it was a delicious beverage, it would be the duty of a mature adult to prevent the above from happening. Atheists are those mature adults.
jimmyjam is right.
There are no dead atheists, nor religious people or anything else. Once dead the brain ceases to function, so there is no belief one way or the other.
So what are the six types. I'm curious to nkow what type os athiest I am. :-)
I think they left out the 7th type, me.
Is one type a person raised that way? Everyone is born an atheist, in the sense they have no concept of deities. But if that concept is never introduced as a young child and/or you're casually told that they don't exist and keep the mindset into adulthood, do you fit into one of the study's categories?
CCF: "Everyone is born an atheist." I would assume that means that you don't believe in a so-called "God gene?"
Yes, I'm an atheist (non-theist) and irreligious.
There is only one "type" of Atheists – you don't believe in a God...
There may be many types of beliefs that have atheism as their core, just as all the "Theist" based religions. We don't say there are six types of Theists, we focus on the Religions, and that is what is missing – a modern Religion/Belief system for Atheists – as Atheism does not mean without rules, just about whether God exists or not.
To say there is no God is based upon nothing. To say there is a God is based upon no proof. One side will never convince the other; it is impossible. To the athiest, proof is essential; to the theist, faith is paramount. They are diametrically opposed. To argue like this is beyond worthless; it is silly and an absolute waste of time. All this does is make the blatherers feel better about their own position. Congratulations, you've posted. And, achieved absolutely nothing.
"Congratulations, you've posted. And, achieved absolutely nothing."- Tim S.
'Physician, heal thyself' is my reply to your last line. Funny, I never thought I'd quote the Bible (Luke 4:23) but your level of hypocrisy justifies it.
As someone who used to be a faith-based believer, your comment is not exactly accurate. Science, logic and reason pointed out the flaws in theistic beliefs that I could no longer deny. The population of believers letting go of faith is growing at great rate. People are seeing the failures of faith and religion in the progress of humanity.
Faith is no virtue. Believing something without adequate evidence or justification is, by definion, guilibility. It's so ironic how people use reason and evidence to act in every aspect of their life (health, relationships, money, ect.) to the most fullfilling but when it comes to "magic" and the most outragious claims imagined... the most impossible things concieved, all that's needed is faith and then it's believed as truth. How silly would it be to use this tact in any other aspect of life?
It's foolishness and worthy of ridicule.
I don't post here to change the minds of the faithful Tim. I post here to voice alternatives to religious dogma, for those "undecided voters" who may be reading.
To quote a line from I can't remember which movie (I want to say it was one of the Star Treks): "We are simply carbon based life forms. We exist, and then we cease to exist."
This is far too scary a concept for some to accept, without having their courage shored up by believing that some higher power is going to "save" them from the inevitable. But, not all of us need that sort of crutch.
To call your comment "hopeless broad-brushing" would be too kind. So many atheists make the same mistake: assuming that Christians are a "monolithic" group: that they all became Christians either through indoctrination as children or because they need a "crutch," particularly as the result of fear of mortality. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I don't revile believers, I envy them. I wish I could believe something without evidence, but I can't. By the way, the Bible is no more evidence for the existence of God than Juius Leblanc Stewart's painting "Nude in the Forest" is evidence that women actually stand around nude in the forest.
The only "evidence" we have for the "Big Bang" is (i) minimal at best, (ii) speculative, and (iii) evidence of EFFECTS, NOT of cause. Yet you believe in THAT, don't you?
No, I don't "believe" in the Big Bang. The Big Bang is a scientific theory based on evidence. Theories come and go, and if new evidence comes along that trashes the Big Bank Theory of the Universe, it will be replaced with something better that fits the "model" (the totally of the evidence) better. What scientists will never do is throw out all of the evidence and declare, "OK, I guess God did it." That will never happen.
You seem to like to ignore what is written, set up a straw man, and beat it down mercilessly. LOL. My post ADMITS that the Big Bang theory is based on "evidence." However, I explain what is "weak" about that evidence. So while there may not be "no" evidence, you DO believe in something for which there is precious little evidence. For me, that amounts to much the same thing.
For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not believe no proof would be enough.
Amen . For believers will be disaster if they have proof,because then they KNOW! And that's a whole different word.By the way I'm an atheist.
Scientists BELIEVE from the evidence. Believers KNOW from faith. I'm an atheist too, and a writer on the (modern) history of science.
The first sentence should cause you shame, not pride. The second sentence is stupid and wrong. Sorry that you thought you were clever.
isa justa mee
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not believe no proof would be enough."
Is this god really at a loss at knowing precisely what would suffice as proof for each and every one of us?
I hear that sentiment quite often from believers, that we atheist are "unconvincable". That's utter nonsense. I believe in thousands and thousands of things that have been proven to be true. And I'll believe in a god, when and only when, the existence of that god is proven, just like anything else.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.