By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN
(CNN) - As you might have heard, Lauren Green at Fox didn’t do a very good job interviewing Reza Aslan on his new book about the historical Jesus.
Instead of asking him about "Zealot," she asked him why, as a Muslim, he would presume to write a book about Jesus. He responded by citing (and re-citing) his academic credentials.
The interview went viral, and Aslan went to No. 1 on Amazon.com (ahead of J. K. Rowling).
But what does the book actually say? Here are seven of Aslan's key arguments in "Zealot":
1. Jesus was a violent revolutionary
Many scholars have argued that Jesus was a political figure. After all, he was crucified by Rome, and crucifixion was at the time a punishment for political offenses. But these scholars often claim, as John Dominic Crossan did in "Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography," that Jesus was a nonviolent revolutionary.
Aslan portrays Jesus as a man of war who worshiped the "blood-spattered God of Abraham, and Moses, and Jacob, and Joshua” and who knew full well that “God’s sovereignty could not be established except through force.”
2. Jesus’ kingdom was worldly
In the Gospel of John, Jesus famously says, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36). Aslan begs to differ. Jesus’ kingdom was neither purely nor predominantly spiritual. He preached “a physical and present kingdom: a real kingdom, with an actual king that was about to be established on earth.”
3. Jesus revolted against Roman and Jewish authorities
Jesus didn’t just take on Rome. He took on Jewish authorities, in particular those who ran the Jerusalem Temple.
“There can be no doubt,” writes Aslan, “that Jesus’s main antagonist in the gospels is neither the distant emperor in Rome nor his heathen officials in Judea. It is the high priest Caiaphas, who will become the main instigator of the plot to execute Jesus precisely because of the threat he posed to the Temple’s authority.”
4. Palm Sunday is the key moment in the Jesus story
Every Jesus biographer has a key moment in the life of Jesus when his essence is revealed. For Aslan, that moment comes when Jesus mounts a donkey and rides into Jerusalem.
In this celebration, commemorated in the Christian world every year on Palm Sunday, Jesus is not demonstrating his humility. Instead, he is announcing his kingship.
The “unmistakeable” message of this scene, according to Aslan, is that “the long-awaited messiah — the true King of the Jews — has come to free Israel from its bondage.”
5. The early church turned Jesus into a pacifist preaching a spiritual kingdom
In 66-73 CE, a bloody Jewish revolt against Rome left Jerusalem in ruins and chastened the early Christians, who reinvented Jesus as an apolitical figure in order to make nice with Rome.
Those who wrote of Jesus in this way (Paul included) never met the man, and, in Aslan's view, they badly mischaracterized him, turning “their messiah from a fierce Jewish nationalist into a pacifistic preacher of good works whose kingdom was not of this world.”
6. The idea that Jesus was God also originated with the early church
As a Jew, Aslan observes, Jesus would have rebelled against any notion that God is incarnated in human flesh.
Therefore, the elevation of Jesus to divinity must have come after his crucifixion, at the hands of Greek-speaking Jewish Christians who “transformed Jesus from a revolutionary zealot to a Romanized demigod.”
7. The Bible isn’t to be believed (as history)
In "Zealot," Aslan repeatedly refers to passages in the New Testament as “preposterous,” “fanciful,” “obviously contrived,” “riddled with the most basic errors,” “simply ridiculous,” and “absurd to the point of comedy.”
Here the Bible is a source for data about Jesus’s life, but that data must be carefully sifted through a scholarly lens, and in particular through the socioeconomic realities of life in the ancient Mediterranean at the time of Jesus.
At least as Aslan sees it, Jesus probably didn’t tell his followers to turn the other cheek. He probably did say, “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I have not come to bring peace, but the sword” (Matthew 10:34).
Do you believe Christ is Hebrew an Israelite. The truth sets you free. Christians and Muslims, even all the religious sects are satanic. Are you keeping the law of commandments (John 1:17) *Matthew 5:17*
The Jew in Medina used have conversation with Christians behind the Muslim even though Jews were under contract that they will support Muhammad (pbuh) when he migrated to Medina from Mecca due to the torture of Idolators to the New Muslim. How would Muhammad know these conversations? Here are the verses were revealed to Muhammad through angel Gabriel and then it was revealed to Muhammad whatever were the conversation was going on among the People of the Scripture (Jew and Christian are called as People of the Scripture in the Quran as they were given a books, Injeel to Jesus and Torah to Moses fyi):
2:109 – Many of the People of the Scripture wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves [even] after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until Allah delivers His command. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
2:110 – And establish prayer and give zakah, and whatever good you put forward for yourselves – you will find it with Allah. Indeed, Allah of what you do, is Seeing.
2:111 – And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."
2:112 – Yes [on the contrary], whoever submits his face in Islam to Allah while being a doer of good will have his reward with his Lord. And no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
2:113 – The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.
2:114 – And who are more unjust than those who prevent the name of Allah from being mentioned in His mosques and strive toward their destruction. It is not for them to enter them except in fear. For them in this world is disgrace, and they will have in the Hereafter a great punishment.
2:115 – And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah . Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
2:116 – They say, " Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him
2:117 – Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.
There are lot more verses addressing to Poeople of The Book.
Islam is a moon-god cult. They took it from the Arabian cult of the moon-god "Sin"
Islam is a moon-god cult. They took it from the Arabian cult of the moon-god "Sin"
Dude, do you type this stuff out? Or are you just CTRL+Alt – ing?
The reality is that he most likely didn't exist. He didn't fulfill the torah predictions. In fact, he missed them by a hundred miles. We have no evidence outside of two forgeries that exist outside of the new testament. Otherwise, the only "evidence" that it existed at all is in the NT.
Why do people keep repeating that phrase "he most likely didn't exist..." I don't know of anyone who has SERIOUSLY looked at the evidence and have come up with that conclusion. People who do come to that conclusion are usually imposing their ideas into the evidence, or just going by what others say. I have studied this in deapth for over 24 years, and have come to the conclusion that there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth than there is evidence for the existence of Julias Ceasar.
What contemporary, extra-biblical evidence do you have to corroberate your claim? I will look into it.
I do have to ask, why do you excluded Biblical sources? As if eye witness accounts are not credible? If I want to learn about Thomas Jefferson, am I not allowed to read anything that he wrote, or anything his friends wrote about him? Even if those sources can be deemed credible?
It would be a lot to stuff into a post here, but check out this article as a start...
Oh my. To use the bible as evidence of anything is about as logical as stating that the movie "Avatar" is proof that aliens exist. Avatar, like the bible, is known to be a work of terribly written fiction.
The gospels were not eyewitness accounts. If they were why are there so many contradictions ?
I do not accept your premise that the Bible is a "known work of... fiction" In order to say that, then you would have to say that the Bible subject – God – does not exist. You can't prove that. The evidence points to the existence of God.
Why is there something rather than nothing? Any explaination or origins demands something to be eternal. Either that is the universe, or that is God. Since we know that the universe is not eternal, then there must be an eternal "first cause."
So Larry, your god, is an "explanation fill-in" place-holder god. A god of the gaps.
Your logic is bull. Reality has been proven to NOT operate by what appears to human brains to be true. Relativity, Uncertainty, the math of Dirac. "Why is there something rather than nothing ". See Laurence Krauss' "A Universe From Nothing". The total energy of the univere IS zero. "0". Gravity can have a negative energy. In light of that, your "something rather than nothing" is garbage.
spelling mistakes not withstanding, your statement "more evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth than there is evidence for the existence of Julias Ceasar." is hilarious! Thanks for the laugh!
You do understand that your disbelief in the existence of Jesus is in the extreme minority, right?
Spelling errors come from typing too quickly, my appologies. Even Einstein went out of the house occasionally without pants. Don't let errors in spelling discredit the message.
Irrelevant. Ad populum fallacy. The majority also believed the Earth was flat. They were all wrong.
Right, but to say that Jesus never existed is to deny the evidence... That is to cover your eyes and ears to what history teaches us. The man who says that Jesus never existed is on the same level as the man who says he is a daisy and insists on being watered every day.
Nope. You refuse to even look objectively at the evidence. There is no good evidence he existed.
No there isn't. Name one piece. Jewish historians on site in Jerusalem at the time do not name him. And they name many other less important details. No temple curtain "tearing". No earthquakes, no zombie invasion when he rose. No other empty tombs (which Matthew says), no split rocks. There is just as much "evidence", just as "good", that the Salem Witches actually were witches, as there is for Jeebus rising. Do you believe they were witches ? If not, you are a hypocrite, and do not accept evidence in an unbiased way.
Actually there is quite a lot of evidence he didn't.
1. The early Christian writers accused each other of lying all the time. Paul admitted he did it.
2. There are other very similar figures were are SO similar, it's very likely one or more of them were just conflated "combo jobs" of each other. (Simon of Perea)
3. If they actually went to the trouble to execute someone by that name, and then people started running around saying he was alive, why did no one from the Jews or Romans try to find him ? If he was important enough to do away with on Passover weekend, he was important enough to try to locate, later. Why was he a threat one week, and not the next ?
I think that Mr. Aslan is falling into a total state of Panic. I even I could be his Panic, I even I may be his Panic.
Him or Lauren Green would not have fallen into a state of Panic if they would've trusted in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son.
You're on this again? It wasn't funny the first time. Or the thousandth time. It isn't funny this time.
How ignorant. You actually think all a non-believer who REJECTS your nonsense has to do is say "I trust" that makes it all good ? It's not panic. So you have 2 projected pieces of junk there. Good thing you are not responsible for anyone else. You couldn't empathize or figure out what some meant if you tried.
"7. The Bible isn’t to be believed"
that's all. thanks for your attention.:-)
Now, now but instead believe in Aslan right? Now really, really how much more stupid can you be?
ONLY YOU CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
After all, you're wearing the hat.
Looks like atheist and Muslims are in state of Panic. Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Son and you WILL NOT Panic. All others will indeed Panic and fall victims of anxiety and hysteria like Lauren Green and Reza Aslan.
you poor simple individual ...
In a state of Panic yet?
*Revelation 9:11 the end of America* (1 Timothy 5:15)
I rather be a child of God in Christ Jesus.
It doesn't matter. Sooner or later the hom.os will give all the muslims and atheists the butt flu and it will all be over. :)
Why are you posting using my moniker? Are the Devils' child or just another child of the Devil?
First reply is not mine, reported. Muslims angry again?
Seven stupid things that Reza Aslan says about Jesus!
Well that again demonstrate how ignorant he is about what and who Jesus is. He also demonstrate he ignores or chose to ignore the text of the Gospels and the rest of the NT writings. Worst is that he ignores that Jesus main argument and claim was that he is the Son of God. To me at least in spite of all of his scholarly credentials, is nothing more than intellectual dishonesty. But can you expect atheists and Muslims? Especially when it relates to the Scriptures.
It should say instead What else can we expect from atheists and Muslims?
I'm sure you fools know what I meant anyway.
Second reply was not me, I reported. But this is a ongoing problem with this blog, because there is no registration or Login requirement to post here. But in a way I do agree.
DUDE! You're talking to yourself!
time for your meds!
No one else will talk to me...
Anytime a person starts making claims that Jesus Christ is a copy-cat of other Gods I ask for their source.
And they don't respond.
I've honestly looked into the claims that "Bootyfunk" and "Dyslexic doG" post, but can't find any credible sources.
What is up with that?
That's because they're atheists. Therefore honesty is not part of them being who they are.
You spend too much time worrying about who will pay attention to you. You must be a Muslim or an atheist in disguise. You will get the butt flu from the hom.os.
Rolled them together and attributed them to jesus
Healed the sick from Hours ,
12 disciples from Mithra,
Traveling teacher from Dionysys.
After all, we certainly have endless examples of modern christians cherry picking their favorite parts of the bible and rolling it into their own personnel version of christianity
Announced by Gabriel, miracles, died and rose, messiah ... Simon of Perea
It is extremely ironic we endure muslims and Hindus telling the west the foolishness of Christianity and our metro-ised Teddies with porridge in their headies (Millennials) drink it all up like seals.
There is not a society on the face of this Earth predominated by Islam or the 'religions' of the East that is not corrupt, tyrannical, unjust, dysfunctional both politically and socially. Our societies of relative enlightenment ironically have drawn immigrants in hordes to our shores, yet, it is these losers that are influencing our soft-headed youth and will drag further our societies down their sink-holes.
The problem with the Christian Story is not Jesus, it is how we have become distanced from what the message of His Story is. I personally have no formal Church because of that, yet my life is comforted by my belief in Jesus. Jesus' story is the most beautiful story ever told as a guide to mankind. The values and morals of Jesus' message inspired the greatest enlightenment in the history of mankind. It's imperfections are all human, not those of Jesus.
The more immigration from the hell-holes of this Earth inevitably means the west soon will be one soon. We have to begin to fight the agenda of Islam.
And we request yet again that "professor" Aslan respond to the following: (if he refuses he should be deported))
What instigated the attack on the Twin Towers, Flight 93 and the Pentagon?
And what drives today's 24/7 mosque/imam-planned acts of terror and horror?
The koran, Mohammed's book of death for all infidels and Muslim domination of the world by any means.
Muslims must clean up this book removing said passages admitting that they are based on the Gabriel myth and therefore obviously the hallucinations and/or lies of Mohammed.
Then we can talk about the safety and location of mosques and what is taught therein.
Until then, no Muslim to include the professor can be trusted anytime or anywhere..................................
Some of the koranic passages that make Islam the terror and horror religion that it is:
http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/005.asp et al
o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
"Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)
"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)
"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)
"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
"Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)
By Quranic definition, a Muslim is simply one who believes in one reality and a monothiest. The argument that the Quran makes is that if there is one Creator than there is only one universal truth, therefore the Quran describes a muslim as some one who is solid ethically, not an idol worshipers ie he or she does not take any thing of this world as divinity, is a rational person, and is humble and intelligent enough to recognize that Human is the created rather than the creator. Quranic argument is that Jesus was created and therefore cannot be divine. By the way you only quoted part of the verses and took them out of context. And some verses have misquoted either intentionally or unintentionally on your part.
A lot of Mystic Jews and mystic Christians would tell you that the Quran in essence is not bringing a new message. In essence they are absolutely correct, since all major Monotheistic faiths have the Universal inspiration.
Before buying this Muslim's book, consider the following sources for the book:
Scholars who already put JC through the ringer that obviously "professor" Aslan used in prepping his book of old ideas:
1.A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
2.A member of an ancient Jewish sect aiming at a world Jewish theocracy and resisting the Romans until ad 70.
Jesus the Myth: Heavenly Christ
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy
Jesus the Myth: Man of the Indefinite Past
G. A. Wells
Jesus the Hellenistic Hero / Zealot
Jesus the Revolutionary/Zealot
Jesus the Wisdom Sage/Zealot
John Dominic Crossan
Stephen J. Patterson
Jesus the Man of the Spirit/Zealot
Jesus the Prophet of Social Change
Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet /Zealot
John P. Meier
E. P. Sanders
Jesus the Savior
Luke Timothy Johnson
Robert H. Stein
N. T. Wright
Just like you recycle old ideas. Pot meet kettle.
As a good student, you have read the reiterations of the "fems" (flaws, errors, muck and stench) of religion. Therefore the seeds have been planted in rich soil. Go therefore and preach the truth to all nations, reiterating as you go amongst the lost, bred, born and brainwashed souls of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism as Rational Thinking makes its triumphant return all because of you!!!!
The true story of Jesus where there is no human intervention and the story is preserved as it was revealed 14+ centuries ago...
3:35 – [Mention, O Muhammad], when the wife of 'Imran said, "My Lord, indeed I have pledged to You what is in my womb, consecrated [for Your service], so accept this from me. Indeed, You are the Hearing, the Knowing."
3:36 – But when she delivered her, she said, "My Lord, I have delivered a female." And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, "And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and [for] her descendants from Satan, the expelled [from the mercy of Allah ]."
3:37 – So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance and caused her to grow in a good manner and put her in the care of Zechariah. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, "O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?" She said, "It is from Allah . Indeed, Allah provides for whom He wills without account."
3:38 – At that, Zechariah called upon his Lord, saying, "My Lord, grant me from Yourself a good offspring. Indeed, You are the Hearer of supplication."
3:39 – So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, "Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from Allah and [who will be] honorable, abstaining [from women], and a prophet from among the righteous."
3:40 – He said, "My Lord, how will I have a boy when I have reached old age and my wife is barren?" The angel said, "Such is Allah ; He does what He wills."
3:41 – He said, "My Lord, make for me a sign." He Said, "Your sign is that you will not [be able to] speak to the people for three days except by gesture. And remember your Lord much and exalt [Him with praise] in the evening and the morning."
3:42 – And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds.
3:43 – O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]."
3:44 – That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.
3:45 – [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].
3:46 – He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous."
3:47 – She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.
3:48 – And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel
3:48 – And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead – by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.
3:49 – And [make him Jesus] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead – by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.
3:50 – And [I (Jesus) have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me (Jesus).
3:51 – Indeed, Allah is my (Jesus) Lord and your (companions) Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
3:52 – Then when Isa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" Al-Hawariun (the disciples and the companions) said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)."
3:53 – Our Lord! We believe in what You have sent down, and we follow the Messenger ['Iesa (Jesus)]; so write us down among those who bear witness (to the truth i.e. La ilaha ill-Allah – none has the right to be worshipped but Allah).
3:54 – And they (disbelievers) plotted [to kill 'Iesa (Jesus) ], and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners.
3:55 – And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad SAW, 'Iesa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Quran] till the Day ofResurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."
3:56 – "As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."
3:57 – And as for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah) and do righteous good deeds, Allah will pay them their reward in full. And Allah does not like the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers).
3:58 – This is what We recite to you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Verses and the Wise Reminder (i.e. the Quran).
3:59 – Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" – and he was.
3:60 – (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.
3:61 – Then whoever argues with you about it after [this] knowledge has come to you – say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly [together] and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars [among us]."
3:62 – Indeed, this is the true story. And there is no deity except Allah. And indeed, Allah is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
5:116 – And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
5:117 – I said not to them except what You commanded me – to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
5:118 – If You should punish them – indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them – indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
5:119 – Allah will say, "This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness." For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment.
5:120 – To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is within them. And He is over all things competent.
61:6 – And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."
61:7 – And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah untruth while he is being invited to Islam. And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.
61:8 – They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
61:9 – It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although those who associate others with Allah dislike it.
61:10 – O you who have believed, shall I guide you to a transaction that will save you from a painful punishment?
61:11 – [It is that] you believe in Allah and His Messenger and strive in the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is best for you, if you should know.
61:12 – He will forgive for you your sins and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow and pleasant dwellings in gardens of perpetual residence. That is the great attainment.
61:13 – And [you will obtain] another [favor] that you love – victory from Allah and an imminent conquest; and give good tidings to the believers.
61:14 – O you who have believed, be supporters of Allah , as when Jesus, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for Allah ?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of Allah ." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.
78:40 – Indeed, We have warned you of a near punishment on the Day when a man will observe what his hands have put forth and the disbeliever will say, "Oh, I wish that I were dust!"
Robert Spencer has proven Muhammad never existed.
In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. MAT 1:6-16 and LUK 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father.
You ignorant! Muslims don't believe Jesus is God's Son, they don't believe God has a Son.
THE BIBLE IS FICTION:
Jesus' last words
MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
How could you say that these are Jesus' last word where these statements were written decades after he was taken away from this earth?
Jesus' deciples were muslim and they believed in him as son of Marry and a Messiah and a Messanger of God sent to Children of Israel... but the message in NT is not reflect as Muslim, Muslim means – believe in The Almighty as One and submit to himself as any other prophets did prior to Jesus i.e. Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was a Muslim.
You use a fictional moniker to say the Bible is fiction? Now really, really; how stupid is that?
And your real name is Salero21? What kind of drugs were your parents on when they named you that?
Be honest to yourself and put things together about Bible and then you tell me, please consider following point:
– when was it written
– who are the ones wrote it
– contents of it (contradicts within it self, now what i meant is: if you read Luke, you will see in the same page Mr. Luke say that Jesus is Lord, Jesus is son of man, son of God, Pray to the Father I pray, come to me as savier and so on)
– there are some christian scholars research that there are gospels which were not written by the actual name it is now, their name has just been used
– on third century contentinople included the trinity concept in it
– and what type of time it went thru (like during that time the state of head was the head of church – you can imagine what could the head of the state do when things did not go for him), another example – Galilio was prisoned because he said that the earth is not flad and it conflicts with Bible
– would you like to hear more?
Peace be upon you...
So what can I say? Well to begin, the ideas that Mr. Aslan expresses in his book are just as stupid as atheism is. But what else can be expected from an atheist or a Muslim?
logic and reasoning – two things you're deathly afraid of.
Most people use logic and reason. There are plenty of scientists who happen to be Christian that can demonstrate this.
We have 2 sides of our brain – a logical/reason side. a creative/imaginative side.
Maybe God wants us to use our whole brain, not just half of it.
The imaginative side of the brain is definitely the one that is used to believe in a god.
Do you know what people who are really interested in logic and reason do?
Also, why don't you like fact checking?
Why don't you post this link 15 more times for no good reason on the same article?
Atheism is the default position of any god claim based on logic, reason, and a healthy dose of skepticism.
yeah Salero21 ... what do you need with facts, you've got the bible!
bootyfunk, dislexicdog and honeybadger = the 3 stooges. :-D
Why is Jesus the most controversial figure in society. He's attacked by schools. He's attacked by atheists. He's attacked by courts. He's attacked by companies. He's attacked by journalists. Say the name of Mohammed, Buddha, or any other historical religious figure in public and most are silent. BUT, say the name of Jesus anywhere in public and the hair on the back the heads of many go up and all h-ll breaks loose. Why is this? Because there is POWER in the name of JESUS!
perhaps because christians attack people with jesus and their nutjob ideas, trying to control politics, school education and women's heath. stay our of everyone else's business and you won't feel so "attacked."
so say the anti-christians
Anti-Christians?? Lmfao. Feeling persecuted? Aw. As 80% of the country is Christian, you are hardly in the minority. Don't whine.
anyone who denies Christ is the Son of God is walking in the spirit of anti-Christ.
hilarious, my friend...'christians attack people with jesus'. I googled 'christian attack' and found very little evidence of Christians attacking anyone, and when it does happen, it's usually some unbalanced cult that has strayed far beyond orthodox Christianity. But, if it makes you feel better, put on your 'armor of No-God' and warn others of the coming Christian Attack! Worldwide, Christians are attacked and killed regularly.
Schools are ambivalent to jesus as they should be.
Atheists don’t attack things that they don’t believe in.
Courts are entrusted with upholding the Consti tution, and that is what they are doing.
so say anti-christ
Look up separation of church and state and get back to us, aallen.
anyone who denies the Son of God has come in the flesh is walking in the spirit of anti-Christ.
One cannot "deny" what one doesn't believe in. Try again.
Let's talk about Horus from Egypt in 3000 BC (Jesus is a copy of Horus), or Attis from Greece in 1500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Attis), or Mithra from Persia in 1200BC (Jesus is a copy of Mithra), or Krishna from India in 900BC (Jesus is a copy of Krishna), or Dionysus from Greece in 500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Dionysus) .... or any of the DOZENS of other gods predating the bronze age book character Jesus who were born of a virgin on Dec 25, traveled as a teacher, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, was killed and lay dead for 3 days and was resurrected.
You Christians are not even original! What a joke!
bingo. the jesus story was told before christianity. plagiarism, best friend of religion.
Kind of a best of the golden oldies. None of the tracks had the same artist but they all get rolled into one album
No proof, just blab. You fail like those that came before you.
"Let's talk about Horus from Egypt in 3000 BC (Jesus is a copy of Horus),"
NO evidence that anyone copied anything from Horus's story. NONE.
"or Attis from Greece in 1500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Attis),"
NO evidence either.
"or Mithra from Persia in 1200BC (Jesus is a copy of Mithra),"
No evidence either.
"or Krishna from India in 900BC (Jesus is a copy of Krishna),"
No evidnece either.
"or Dionysus from Greece in 500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Dionysus)"
"or any of the DOZENS of other gods predating the bronze age book"
Wow, thanks for this little talk.
no evidence except the obvious plagiarism of the stories. read about these other gods/demi-gods. see how similar the stories are, virgin birth, 12 disciples, resurrection after 3 days... the story has been regurgitated numerous times.
and since when do you need proof? there's no proof your god exists but that doesn't stop you from believing in fairy tales.
"no evidence except the obvious plagiarism of the stories. read about these other gods/demi-gods."
If it is so obvious, perhaps you could show us with some citation of ancient manuscripts.
I have read much on the dieties you have referred to.
"see how similar the stories are,"
Your association fallacy doesn't hold up.
"and since when do you need proof? there's no proof your god exists but that doesn't stop you from believing in fairy tales."
I've always ask for proof and I have no god nor believe in fairy tales.
you ask for proof? where's your proof of god?
and it doesn't seem like you have read about those other gods at all or you would admit there are numerous "similarities". you don't think jesus compares to horus? then you haven't read about horus.
1. Both were conceived of a virgin.
2. Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3. Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4. Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5. Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7. Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
8. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
9. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
10. Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
11. Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
12. Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
13. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
14. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
15. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
16. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
17. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
18. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
19. Both were baptized at age 30.
20. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
21. Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
22. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
23. Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
24. Both have 12 disciples.
25. Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
26. Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
27. Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
28. Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Livanu (literally, "house of Anu").
29. Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
30. Both were crucified.
31. Both were crucified next to two thieves.
32. Both were buried in a tomb.
33. Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
34. Both had their resurrection announced by women.
35. Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
36. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
37. Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
38. Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
39. Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
40. Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Livlehem ("the house of bread").
41. "The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'" (See Point 13)
42. Both were transfigured on the mount.
43. The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
44. Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate".
45. Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
46. Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).
but i guess that's not a lot of similarities to you, huh? lol. try to be honest in your assessment and not let your religious bias control your opinion.
And I'm still waiting. All you have offered is undoc umented copy/paste.
Your examples are lifted from the pseudo scholarship in zeitgeist. I'm not asking you to change your mind, just do some actual research
now you're just being silly. what do you want, the original texts in ancient egyptian? do you read ancient egyptian?
sounds like you don't have an answer as to why a the jesus story is so similar to the story of gods that came before him, some details unbelievably similar. stop making excuses and address the issue you've stuck your nose in.
and what part of what i pasted is not true? be specific.
"1. Both were conceived of a virgin."
Horus was not born of a virgin.
"2. Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)"
Guess you missed where Anubis was Osiris's son.
"3. Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary."
HAHAHAHA, you are really using this with a straight face? Let me ask you this...how similar is the English in the US to that of Dream Of The Rood written 1,000 years ago. And you really think that the Egyptian language from 3,000 years prior to Jesus's time is that close to the aramaic that was spoken?
"4. Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph."
Horus had no foster father. He had a brother named Set though. And again, do we have to go over it again why comparing words that are separated by 3,000 years is utterly stupid?
"7. Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel."
HAHA, find me a reference to an "angel" in ancient egyptian mythology. Please, don't embarr@ss yourself by referencing Nut because she was a goddess in their religion. Wings do not make an angel..lol.
Omgosh, I'm not going to bother to keep going down this inane list. You failed.simply put.
If you would like to try again, please cite actual manuscripts from ancient egypt. They had tons of them and I'm sure you could find your evidence there if it really exists.
@Bootyfunk- now you're just being silly. what do you want, the original texts in ancient egyptian? do you read ancient egyptian?"
Or the translations. What? All this time you have only been trusting what others have told you? You haven't checked the info out for yourself? Why am I not surprised?
"sounds like you don't have an answer as to why a the jesus story is so similar to the story of gods that came before him,"
I have given an answer...they are not.
"some details unbelievably similar. stop making excuses and address the issue you've stuck your nose in."
You have yet to show any.
"and what part of what i pasted is not true? be specific."
Well, at least you admitted it's copy/paste. I did offer up some truth in your pack of copy/paste lies and foolishness.
Omgosh, I'm not going to bother to keep going down this inane list. You failed.simply put.
Actually you should unless we are to as sume the vast others were not addres sed and you agree
@Booty ... you obviously have a different definition of the word evidence than the dictionary version.
It's obvious that you pulled this straight from the Zeitgeist movie. You should really research your "facts" before posting them, as to not look silly when someone corrects you.
1) For the millionth time there is no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin.
3)Wrong. Horus mother was Isis.
5) This is probably the only true statement here.
6) No where in the Bible does it say that Jesus was ever born in a cave.
7) There is no evidence anywhere that Horus's birth was announced by angels.
8) There is no evidence that Horus had his birth heralded by any star.
9) Even if this were true (which it's not), Jesus wasn't born in December or anywhere near it.
It says in the Bible that the shepherds where in the fields tending to the herd. Shepherds don't do
this in the cold winter months.
11) Completely false.
12) No where in the Bible does it say that Jesus was visited by "3 wise men". Ever.
24) According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers. There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus had 12 followers and they where for the "twelve tribes of judah" which goes back thousands of years before Jesus.
25) There is no evidence that Horus walked on water.
27) False. Horus never brought Osiris back from the dead, but he did avenge his death.
29) There is no evidence that Horus delivered a Sermon on any mount.
30) No evidence that Horus was crucified.
42) No evidence that Horus was transfigured on a mount.
I picked these ones because they probably would make the most compelling argument if they where true, but the truth is, there not. None of it is true. There's no evidence anywhere for what your claiming, and if you don't believe me just go look for yourself.
Zombie God- "Actually you should unless we are to as sume the vast others were not addres sed and you agree"
Actually no because the burden of proof falls on him to back up all of his assertions.
Though it was a fun to blow the statements away. :)
@Lycidas I mean ... sorry BF
"Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion."
Ok, if one wants to go by the weakest meaning of the term, then what Booty put was evidence. Though if you accept what he put up as evidence, then you probably have to accept the Torah as evidence that God created everything. For some reason I doubt you would.
Now tell me dog, would you accept undoc umented "hey trust me it's factual" type of copy/paste that Booty put up as evidence that you would accept? Booty has not offered up sufficient evidence for his position.
Lol. NO evidence...except they are all almost carbon copies...lmao. You're unclear on the concept of "evidence" aren't you?
"Lol. NO evidence...except they are all almost carbon copies...lmao. You're unclear on the concept of "evidence" aren't you?"
I got a pretty good grasp on the concept. So I'll ask you like I did the others, please provide evidence in the form of ancient manuscripts showing that Christianity took from there other religions. I would guess you won't or will try to offer up some website that tells you how to think.
You are looking for some doc that states "We took Jesus from other myths and cobbled them together"? Seriously? The same evidence that is provided for Jesus is also the same that is provided for the other gods. None prove the existence of ANY of them. Only that people believed in them, as you believe in God and Jesus.
So you want to deny there are similarities? Fine. That's your choice. But they are there, whether or not you believe.
as if you've offered up any ancient manuscripts to prove anything you've said on the blog, haha. you're just being silly. when you say a bible page is real, do you offer up the original? no. so stop being silly. it shows that you have no argument against what was said except to say, "who me the ancient babylonian manuscripts or it never happened?" lol.
@Miss Anthrope- I am glad that you agree there is no evidence that Christianity lifted from the other religions.
I deny there are any similarities as was copy/pasted.
"But they are there, whether or not you believe."
Then the burden of proof falls on your to back that assertion up.
@Bootyfunk- "as if you've offered up any ancient manuscripts to prove anything you've said on the blog, haha."
I have tried when asked to offer some to back up something I have said.
"when you say a bible page is real, do you offer up the original?"
If someone says that the bible is real? (you mean factual?) then going back as far as one can to the original would be important.
"it shows that you have no argument against what was said except to say, "who me the ancient babylonian manuscripts or it never happened?" lol."
I do not see what is funny. Basically you are saying you just trust what the copy/paste said without seeing absolutely nothing from original sources. You are a sheep, as much as anyone raised in a family of christians.
"@Miss Anthrope- I am glad that you agree there is no evidence that Christianity lifted from the other religions."
MA: No. What I SAID was:
"You are looking for some doc that states “We took Jesus from other myths and cobbled them together”? Seriously? The same evidence that is provided for Jesus is also the same that is provided for the other gods."
I didn't agree with you. Twisting one's words to fit your opinion is dishonest.
"I deny there are any similarities as was copy/pasted."
MA: that is up to you. The similarities remain.
Miss Anthrope- "The similarities remain."
What similarities? And for the love of all things sane and historical please don't cite copy/paste sources from bias sites.
If your professor wouldn't accept it as a valid citation, don't put it up here.
Lycidas, it is a fruitless endeavor to put up any sort of evidence that you will immediately decry as not being up to your standards; your dismissal of cut and paste entries is testiment to that.
I submit there would be no Christian sites that would admit to it anyway; that seems to be what you're looking for.
Actually, I don't care; your faith is yours, and I have nothing to prove to you.
Let us just say that you and I agree to disagree, and leave it at that, shall we?
I deny that the Jesus portrayed in the Gosphels wasn't patterned after earlier gods.
You deny that it was.
@Miss Anthrope- "it is a fruitless endeavor to put up any sort of evidence that you will immediately decry as not being up to your standards; your dismissal of cut and paste entries is testiment to that."
No, you don't get to play that game. I am not behaving in any way that is inconsistent to how atheists treat the religious on here. I have nothing against copy/paste when it has citation to a reputable source. But we are NOT talking about such a thing here now are we?
"I submit there would be no Christian sites that would admit to it anyway; that seems to be what you're looking for."
I doubt anyone could find such a thing. Therefor they should be looking for other evidence. Not very surprising, there is none.
"Actually, I don't care; your faith is yours, and I have nothing to prove to you."
And please don't get upset when I point out you have failed to prove your point.
"Let us just say that you and I agree to disagree, and leave it at that, shall we?"
In the world of debate, not exactly but we'll just leave it at that.
And don't you think its possible that Satan, the great counterfeiter and great perverter would be informed of future events, knowing the nature of God, and would create false copies intended to deceive?
no. that's silly. there's no such thing as the devil. that's a boogey man story.
So...Satan invented all of the other gods just to throw people off when the real article comes? Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds? You're grasping at straws.
Am I? Well, surely you must know then. After all, you know everything. After all, you would have to in order to say something like that.
And don't you think its possible that Satan, the great counterfeiter and great perverter would be informed of future events, knowing the nature of God, and would create false copies intended to deceive?
Padded room time
Well there you go, now we have 2 gods I guess. If Satan is powerful enough to do that and intervene in the affairs of men, then then I guess that makes him a deity as well. He must be a powerful one too since god can't just destroy him. What color is the sky in your world?
What if satan created the bible to tempt you away from another god?
Perhaps he didn't want you to believe in Osiris so he created the bible to fool you!
Sounds like nonsense doesn't it?
Now you know what your statement sounded like.
No, because there is no evidence for Osiris... There is no basis in reality for those supposed deities. God on the other hand, shows us His invisible attributes through what has been made.
If you admit to the existence of evil, then you admit that there is good. If you admit to both good and evil, then the implication is that there is a moral law. If there is a moral law, then there MUST be a moral law giver.
We ourselves do not determine morality. All we can offer is merely opinion. Definitive laws of morality come only from outside of onesself.
Plenty of evidence for Osiris
Lots of writings from ancient Egyptians, same proof you have.
And I don't need a god to tell me right from wrong, especially your god who condones killing children for disobeying their parents, owning slaves and so on.
Give me a break, if your god is moral then I am proud to be immoral.
Your god is weak, he can't even get rid of satan.
Wake up, open your eyes, free yourself.
And if god is good and satan is evil then your a polytheist.
Satan must be a god if he can intervene in mans existence.
That is certainly what early Christians claimed, which leads me to believe that the similarities claimed must have been recognized by the people who lived at that time.
Total misconceptions by the media! Read the following paragraph:
You saw this is the Zeitgeist movie right? If you did research of facts you would find most of what you state is incorrect
what is incorrect? specifically.
How many do I need...
one example shows you didn't research this
Horus did not have 12 disciples. His barge was towed by 12 gods.
haha, that sounds pretty similar.
but not every detail will match up - just most.
He can't be a copy of all of them, that is unreasonable.
And if you look into it, Jesus really isn't a copy of any.
There are websites that claim things about this and they are wrong – check out the sources.
This is actually written by an atheist:
Care to back up with sources?
jesus said some great things about love... but he also did and said many questionable things:
he also supported slavery, the worst kind of evil. jesus said to beat disobedient slaves "with many stripes."
at the End Times, jesus will supposedly open his daddy's seven seals, releasing death, plague, famine, war, etc. on the earth, killing 2/3 of the population.
jesus says non-believers go to hell, thereby condemning billions of people to eternal torture.
if jesus lived at all, and there's no good proof that he did, he was either crazy or a liar. he wasn't really the son of god. he didn't do any magic cr@p that's in the bible. that he went around telling people he was the son of god and could perform miracles makes him a liar or a nutjob.
"if jesus lived at all, and there's no good proof that he did, he was either crazy or a liar."
You're presupposing that, if Jesus lived, then the biblical account is accurate, and thus forcing a false dichotomy of insanity or dishonesty. Aslan's argument seems to be that the gospels were inaccurate (and he gives reasons he suspects for why and how), leading to a man neither insane nor dishonest, a man significantly unlike the picture of him commonly worshipped.
Actually, there are almost no credible scholars that would agree with you. It is universally accepted that Jesus was an actual person. Were we disagree, is on whether he did the things the Bible claims.
It is not universally accepted that Jesus was an actual person. That is just your fantasy. I assume that when you say "credible scholars" you actually mean christian scholars
Curious, who are your credible scholars?
NO virgin birth
today's Christianity is tomorrow's punch line!
the fictional character of jesus was plagiarized from other religions/mythologies. christianity isn't very original.
No evidence at all in your statement. All you offered up is fantastical opinions like a fundie.
the evidence is in the comparisons. because you don't like it doesn't make it evidence. when you read two stories and they are extremely similar, isn't that evidence that the 2nd guy copied the 1st guy? the evidence is staring you in the face - you're just ignoring it because it goes against your religious beliefs.
Judiasm was created around 1200 B.C. give or take a couple hundred years. If one believes Moses existed it is clear as to what his influence was in creating the religion.
@Bootyfunk- "the evidence is in the comparisons."
There are no comparisons because the info given is false.
"because you don't like it doesn't make it evidence."
No, because the info you gave is false, that is why it is not evidence.
"when you read two stories and they are extremely similar, isn't that evidence that the 2nd guy copied the 1st guy?"
No. If there is a black and white bird with flipper like wings that swims and eats fish...is it related to the penguin? They are similar yes? But the Auk is not related because correlation does not imply causation. The same with texts that seem to be similar, though you still have yet to show there are any similarities.
"you're just ignoring it because it goes against your religious beliefs."
My personal beliefs or non-beliefs are not in play here. Historical fact is.
@Zombie God- "If one believes Moses existed it is clear as to what his influence was in creating the religion."
No, it is not clear. You are falling into a fallacy of assumption.
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