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Bishop: Pope was 'on a high' during gay remarks
Cardinal Timothy Dolan in Rome before the conclave in Rome that elected Pope Francis.
July 31st, 2013
05:53 PM ET

Bishop: Pope was 'on a high' during gay remarks

By Daniel Burke, CNN

(CNN) - The nation's leading Roman Catholic archbishop said Wednesday that Pope Francis was "on a high" from his first international trip as pontiff when he said "Who am I to judge?" gays and lesbians.

Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, who traveled last week to Brazil with the pope for World Youth Day, said the massive turnout - estimates ran as high as 3 million - and ecstatic crowds likely gave Francis hope that he would "revive the church on his home continent of Latin America."

Francis was the archbishop of Buenos Aires in Argentina from 1998 until his papal election in March.

"The pope was visibly `on a high' from his first international pastoral visit in Rio," Dolan said. "Understandably so. Because I was there with him, I can verify that the superlatives being used — `oceanic' crowds, `frenzied' welcomes, `inspirational, heartfelt' words — are not exaggerations at all."

On the plane from Brazil back to Rome on Monday, the pope gave an 80-minute press conference in which he addressed a number of controversial issues for the Catholic Church, including homosexuality, the ordination of women and scandals involving a so-called "gay lobby" at the Vatican.

Regarding gay priests, Francis said, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

READ MORE: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'

The remarks were read by some as a rejection of previous church policy, including a 2005 directive that barred men with "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" from the priesthood.

Not so, Dolan said on Wednesday in a blog post.

"No change in church teaching here . . . or no intended `correction' to a more `dour' approach by his predecessors," said Dolan.

In fact, the archbishop continued, Francis does not have the power to change church doctrine.

"Catholics know that the pope, like all of us, is a servant of the truth of the Gospel, not a crafter. Doctrine is a given; it is settled, inherited, faithfully passed on. That’s his duty, and he’s sure doing it well."

As archbishop of New York and president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Dolan is widely considered the most powerful Catholic official in the country. He was also part of the conclave that elected Francis.

Since the pope's comments on Monday, conservatives have framed them as a change in tone, not substance, noting that Francis quoted from the Catholic Catechism and would hardly announced a change in doctrine during an impromptu press conference.

CNN Vatican analyst John Allen noted, however, that "at a certain point, tone becomes substance if it’s seen as revitalizing the prospects of the church."

READ MORE: How Pope Francis is revolutionizing the church

Rather than a change in doctrine, the pope's "brief remarks were about mercy," Dolan said.

"The church considers unjust discrimination against any homosexual a sin," the archbishop said, adding that "homosexual acts, which are contrary to Revelation...can always be healed by God's mercy."

"And when God’s mercy is sought, it is always given, the sin wiped away and forgotten; because of this, nobody — not the Pope, not a bishop, not a priest — can judge another!"

Other church-watchers noted, however, that Francis himself cited a previous pope while dismissing the possibility of women's ordination during the same airplane press conference.

"By saying that John Paul II had `definitively…closed the door to women priests,' Francis was himself pointing to the fact that popes determine church law," wrote blogger Mark Silk at Religion News Service. 

Dolan closed his blog post by lamenting that so much media coverage has concentrated on "these weary issues" rather than "the noble themes that ran through Copacabana Beach," where World Youth Day was held.

- CNN Belief Blog Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Gay rights • Homosexuality • Pope Francis

soundoff (930 Responses)
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    November 27, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
  2. Churchmouse77

    There is a lot of that going around...

    Pastor Tells His Louisiana Congregation a Lie while on a "power trip" and Escapes Affair with Young Intern to Join Alabama MegaChurch.... Financial Ruin, Cover Up, Illegal Firings and Buying Silence

    Read the comments and mycultlife.com to find out the real story.

    http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2013/08/after_inappropriate_relationsh.html#comments

    August 13, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
  3. mzh

    25:70 – Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds, for those, Allah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    25:71 – And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds, then verily, he repents towards Allah with true repentance.

    25:72 – And those who do not witness falsehood, and if they pass by some evil play or evil talk, they pass by it with dignity.

    25:73 – And those who, when they are reminded of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord, fall not deaf and blind thereat.

    25:74 – And those who say: "Our Lord! Bestow on us from our wives and our offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and make us leaders for the righteous"

    25:75 – Those will be rewarded with the highest place (in Paradise) because of their patience. Therein they shall be met with greetings and the word of peace and respect.

    25:76 – Abiding therein; excellent it is as an abode, and as a place to dwell.

    August 13, 2013 at 7:06 am |
    • Brian

      In other words,Allah is an unjust god who turns a blind eye to sin...sins are not dealt with at all..just glosed over....sorry..I aint going to worship that kind of god....He shows mercy only on certain people based soely on outside appearances. God of Bible is True God..SIn is dealt with, not glossed over and such. God requires a relationship..not doing good deeds as foremost

      December 3, 2013 at 11:58 am |
  4. Jim Englert

    Rio may well have been a high for the pontiff, but appears clearly to have been a downer for Dolan.

    August 11, 2013 at 10:23 am |
  5. joe

    I can't believe the media. If you get all your news about what the Catholic Church teaches through the media, you must have a completely warped view of what Catholics believe. The Church has always had the same stance towards gays: one of peace. The Pope's words are nothing new.

    August 10, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • Jim Englert

      You do give evidence, Joe, of one rather consistent aspect of Catholic response here, and that is duplicity.

      August 11, 2013 at 10:28 am |
  6. Jim P.

    ""Catholics know that the pope, like all of us, is a servant of the truth of the Gospel, not a crafter. Doctrine is a given; it is settled, inherited, faithfully passed on. That’s his duty, and he’s sure doing it well.""

    Well, *this* gets interesting. One has to wonder what to make of the dozens of Councils held in the last two thousand years by this same church to hammer out exactly what was to be official church doctrine and the hundreds if not thousands of Papul bulls on the subject, many of which clash if you look at them as a whole. (Much of which has changed a lot over the millennia...look at the history of "Mary worship" for example or the church's position on "witchcraft". (First thousand years or so there was no such thing, then there was...go figure)

    If I am not very much mistaken, there is, even now, a major body within the highest levels of the vatican devoted to deciding just what is and is not doctrine at any given time.

    August 10, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
  7. mzh

    And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. 5:116

    I said not to them except what You commanded me – to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. 5:117

    If You should punish them – indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them – indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. 5:118

    August 7, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Reality

      And again for our sister and brother Muslims:

      From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      The First Five of the 77 Branches:

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
      be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

      Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

      August 7, 2013 at 11:36 pm |
    • ...

      Dear mzh
      Your quran and your "messenger don't offer you an attonment for your sin. You will stand befor your Maker na/ked in your sins. Your works don't count, because your righteousness can not be attonment for your sin. You need God's righteousness. Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God, who came to be a propit/iation for sins of mankind. Only through Him you can be saved. If you are really sincere, why don't you ask God to show you? And then BE QUIET and let HIM speak!

      August 9, 2013 at 12:11 am |
      • Richard Cranium

        Lame. Jesus was allegedly sent by an alleged god, to save people from the original sin committed by their ancestors, Adam and Eve. but since genetics has proven that we all did not come from one genetic set, Adam and Eve are nothing but a lie, and therefore, christianity is a lie.

        Seriously, how gullible are you people?

        August 9, 2013 at 12:21 am |
        • fred

          Dawkins sound bite #103 is false but go ahead and keep pushing it.

          August 9, 2013 at 12:31 am |
        • Richard Cranium

          First off, I have never read or heard anything by Dawkins. Second, "no it isn"t" is hardly an argument. Do you have anything to say that comes from your own mind?

          August 9, 2013 at 12:42 am |
        • fred

          Yes, I wonder what you motive is in taking down the Bible.
          I wonder why you adopt Saul of Tarsus position on Adam and Eve when he was trained under strict Jewish tradition from 753 BC. based upon the books of Moses which you yourself claim to a lie and not trust worthy. It is not trust worthy for Christians but trustworthy as your Strawman.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:01 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          We do all share a common ancestry though, so technically we do come from one genetic set in terms of the h.omo genus.

          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam

          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

          August 9, 2013 at 1:14 am |
        • Richard Cranium

          I do not take down the bible. Reality does. Beleiving in it is denying reality.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:15 am |
        • Richard Cranium

          Dave
          Taking those small points and thinking it accounts for all of genetics is akin to seeing one grain of sand and saying you understand all of the beaches throughout the world. What you point to, does not make your point, or any point for that matter.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:19 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          It does make a point, that everybody alive today shares a common ancestry and that alone was the point I was making. If you read anything else into my statement then you are either paranoid or retarded.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:25 am |
        • fred

          God formed man out of the dust of the Earth. How is it that you know what this means while theologians continue to argue about it? Does it mean man is product of natural processes of the Earth which does not exclude evolution. Does it meant the Popes position that the physical properties of man could be evolved is acceptable.? Adam was the first to be give a soul and all mankind since Adam have a soul. Genetics does not address soul. The Bible stands.

          Mitochondrial DNA supports all modern man had a common ancestor 2,000 to 6,000 years ago. That does not dispute the Bibles position either.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:26 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          fred

          Our female common ancestor lived about 200,000 years ago and our male common ancestor lived between 237,000 and 581,000 years ago.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:32 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Matriarchal and patriarchal are more apt terms than male and female.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:39 am |
        • fred

          Dave
          I do not disagree with you as to the first women being 200,000 years ago. I was speaking of most recent common ancestor which was less than 5,000 years ago which all known humans today share common DNA with.

          Rohde, DL; Olson, S; Chang, JT (September 2004), "Modelling the recent common ancestry of all living humans", Nature 431 (7008): 562–6, doi:10.1038/nature02842, PMID 15457259

          August 9, 2013 at 1:52 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          Ah, thanks for the correction.

          August 9, 2013 at 1:57 am |
        • Richard Cranium

          dave
          Ahhh...ad hominen. Weak.
          Good point , well stated. Take a few classes in genetics and then re-read your statement. You do not comprehend how far from understanding you are. It is like a 2nd grader explaining calculus.

          August 9, 2013 at 2:07 am |
        • I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

          What ad hominem? I said if you read any subtext into my comment, you're either paranoid or retarded. That's not an insult directed at you, it's an observation which applies to anybody.

          I know enough about genetics to know that humanity shares common ancestry. H.omo sapien should have been stated instead of h.omo genus perhaps, but apart from that, I believe I made a valid point.

          August 9, 2013 at 2:18 am |
        • Reality

          o More details from National Geographic's Genographic project: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

          "Our spe-cies is an African one: Africa is where we first ev-olved, and where we have spent the majority of our time on Earth. The earliest fos-sils of recognizably modern Ho-mo sapiens appear in the fossil record at Omo Kibish in Ethiopia, around 200,000 years ago. Although earlier fossils may be found over the coming years, this is our best understanding of when and approximately where we originated.

          According to the genetic and paleontological record, we only started to leave Africa between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago. What set this in motion is uncertain, but we think it has something to do with major climatic shifts that were happening around that time—a sudden cooling in the Earth’s climate driven by the onset of one of the worst parts of the last Ice Age. This cold snap would have made life difficult for our African ancestors, and the genetic evidence points to a sharp reduction in population size around this time. In fact, the human population likely dropped to fewer than 10,000. We were holding on by a thread.

          Once the climate started to improve, after 70,000 years ago, we came back from this near-extinction event. The population expanded, and some intrepid explorers ventured beyond Africa. The earliest people to colonize the Eurasian landma-ss likely did so across the Bab-al-Mandab Strait separating present-day Yemen from Djibouti. These early beachcombers expanded rapidly along the coast to India, and reached Southeast Asia and Australia by 50,000 years ago. The first great foray of our species beyond Africa had led us all the way across the globe."

          "Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in his era. Rather, he is unique because his descendents are the only ones to survive.

          It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all the genetic diversity."

          For your $199 and a DNA swab sent to National Geographic's Genographic Project:

          "Included in the markers we will test for is a subset that scientists have recently determined to be from our hominin cousins, Neanderthals and the newly discovered Denisovans, who split from our lineage around 500,000 years ago. As modern humans were first migrating out of Africa more than 60,000 years ago, Neanderthals and Denisovans were still alive and well in Eurasia. It seems that our ancestors met, leaving a small genetic trace of these ancient relatives in our DNA. With Geno 2.0, you will learn if you have any Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA in your genome."

          August 9, 2013 at 8:29 am |
    • Brian

      well see, Jesus never said that ..He claimed and proved He is God..not ANOTHER deity as you Muslim so wronglfully accuse Christianity..to say we claim ANOTHER deity is gross misunderstanding of our beliefs...this went all the way back to Mohamed who did not understand as well. Jesus IS God..NOT another god or deity. There is ONE God...ANd He is comprised of three PERSONS (not gods) Father, SOn and Holy SPirit

      December 3, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
  8. Angelic Moron

    Once bishops like Dolan get off their high chair and stop fantasying about young ones, they may yet see the light. Hopefully the new pope can turn Dolan and his bishops back to the right way.

    August 5, 2013 at 11:58 pm |
    • EX catholic

      You are delusional your moniker fits you well.

      August 9, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
  9. David King

    The world is watching the new Pope as he seeks to rebuild the church. The pope seems to be on the right path, reaching out to sinners in kind compassion.

    August 5, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Observer

      David King,

      I've yet to hear why what two consenting single adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is a "sin" when the Bible never calls slavery or child molesting a "sin". Any explanation? Why is that any of your business or God's?

      August 5, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • sam stone

      Ooooh, "sin".....pretty scary stuff, for those who believe in it

      August 6, 2013 at 5:05 am |
      • WArning Second Coming

        Sin gives eternal Fires of Hell. Pain for ever. Google WArning Second Coming and read how Jesus wants to help you and save you from eternal pain. It is very real. You might not believe in it, until you die. But then it will be too late to be sorry. Your life, and it is eternal, depends on your decisions. Dont waste it. It is very real. Hell or Heaven. For ever.

        August 6, 2013 at 10:12 pm |
        • Observer

          News from thousands of years ago:

          (1 Cor. 7:29-31 “What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.”

          August 6, 2013 at 10:35 pm |
  10. Roger that

    How can someone like "The Real Tom" get banned when crap like this gets posted without consequence? I am not referring to the original post.

    August 4, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      There is no way to really get banned. All it takes is any email address, which one can create hundreds of aliases and fake names for., to log on and post.
      Tom likely got tired of the restrictions and the fact that the site is not working right.

      August 4, 2013 at 11:57 am |
      • TheGrimJester

        They can do an IP ban. They could also ban a range of IPs if he decides to login from different locations.

        Email is merely used so they can send advertisements and other such things. It is not the only system used to identify a user.

        August 6, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
      • Richard Cranium

        While what you say is possible, it would take far more than that to fully block a person, and I have never seen anything fron Tom that would push such measures.

        August 9, 2013 at 1:10 am |
  11. EX catholic

    Very Stupido.

    August 3, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
  12. Jeff Roem

    My, my. Feel all of the love going on here. Nothing worse than a bunch of self-loathing Christians.

    August 3, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • DJ

      lol who says they are christians..dont sound like christians to me.

      August 4, 2013 at 12:17 am |
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    CHINESE PROGRAMS USING SATELLITES TO CREATE MURDERERS.
    SALE OF VENEZUELAN PEOPLE SELLING FOR MATURE NICOLAS STUDIES OF THE HUMAN RACE.
    AN IRRADIATED 100 000 CHILDREN FROM SATELLITES.
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    August 3, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
  14. Khan

    Are you for real?? Is this how you really think?? Did you gain a few pounds and you're pist about it?? Are you a silly ass??

    August 2, 2013 at 8:55 pm |
    • Khan

      My name was a a parody of Chacka's name, you fucking moron. Go back to screwing your sister wife, asshole. I'm not Muslim, but I'll bet you're Christian.

      August 3, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Khan

      Or Shacka. Or whatever. You changing your name to reply was obvious, you toothless hillbilly d bag.

      August 3, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Co Co

      I'll let you lick my cunt for a price, Doobage. I let my daddy do it all the time for free.

      August 3, 2013 at 8:34 pm |
    • mzh

      i wonder why cnn does not filter these postings with these wordings.... may be they should updt the filters...

      August 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
  15. renato baldago

    the bishop coference of catholic pope francis should listen to the only sensible preacher of our times. br. eli. soriano

    August 2, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • Douglas

      Personally, Fr. Guido Sarducci is the best preacher that ever was.

      August 2, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
      • Rocket surgeon

        Guido has my vote. He was awesome.

        August 2, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
  16. mzh

    This is an invitation to Jews and Christians from The Almighty:

    3:98 – Say [O Muhammad], "O People of the Scripture, why do you disbelieve in the verses of Allah while Allah is Witness over what you do?"

    3:99 – Say [O Muhammad], "O People of the Scripture, why do you avert from the way of Allah those who believe, seeking to make it [seem] deviant, while you are witnesses [to the truth]? And Allah is not unaware of what you do."

    3:100 – O you who have believed, if you obey a party of those who were given the Scripture, they would turn you back, after your belief, [to being] unbelievers.

    3:101 – And how could you disbelieve while to you are being recited the verses of Allah and among you is His Messenger? And whoever holds firmly to Allah has [indeed] been guided to a straight path.

    3:102 – O you who have believed, fear Allah as He should be feared and do not die except as Muslims [in submission to Him].

    3:103 – And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you – when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

    3:104 – And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful.

    3:105 – And do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.

    3:106 – On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."

    Peace be upon all of you...

    August 2, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Reality

      What instigated the attack on the Twin Towers, Flight 93 and the Pentagon?

      And what drives today's 24/7 mosque/imam-planned acts of terror and horror?

      The koran, Mohammed's book of death for all infidels and Muslim domination of the world by any means.

      Muslims must clean up this book removing said passages admitting that they are based on the Gabriel myth and therefore obviously the hallucinations and/or lies of Mohammed.

      Then we can talk about the safety and location of mosques and what is taught therein.

      Until then, no Muslim can be trusted anytime or anywhere..................................

      August 2, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
      • Reality

        Just some of the passages that need to be deleted from the koran:

        http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/005.asp et al
        o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
        o
        "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

        "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

        "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

        "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

        "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

        "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

        "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

        "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

        "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

        "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

        "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

        "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

        "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

        "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

        August 2, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
        • Reality

          Just some of the results of said passages:

          As the koranic/mosque driven acts of terror and horror continue:

          The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century

          ■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

          and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.

          and more recently

          1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

          1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

          2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

          3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles. Iraqi civilians killed as of 05/10/2013/, 113,249-123,978 mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

          4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

          5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

          6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

          7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

          8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

          9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

          10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

          11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

          12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

          13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

          14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

          15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.

          16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

          17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

          18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

          19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011

          20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011

          21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.

          22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.

          23) "October 4, 2011, 100 die as a truck loaded with drums of fuel exploded Tuesday at the gate of compound housing several government ministries on a busy Mogadishu street. It was the deadliest single bombing carried out by the al Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group in Somalia since their insurgency began. "

          o 24) Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:18am EDT
          o
          BAGHDAD (Reuters) – A suicide bomber detonated an explosive-packed car outside a Shi'ite Muslim office in central Baghdad on Monday, killing at least 26 people and wounding more than 190 in an attack bearing the hallmarks of Iraq's al Qaeda affiliate.
          The bombing on a Shi'ite religious office comes at a sensitive time, with the country's fractious Shi'ite, Sunni and Kurdish blocs locked in a crisis that threatens to unravel their power-sharing deal and spill into sectarian tensions."

          25) BURGAS, Bulgaria | Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:27am EDT

          (Reuters) – A suicide bomber carried out an attack that killed seven people in a bus transporting Israeli tourists in Bulgaria, the interior minister said on Thursday, and Israel said Iranian-backed Hezbollah militants were to blame.

          26 ) September 12, 2012
          U.S. AMBASSADOR KILLED
          Envoy to Libya dies in rocket blast

          27) Boston Marathon horror – April 2013, four dead, hundreds injured and maimed for life.

          August 2, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
      • mzh

        Dear Reality:

        Peace be upon you...

        August 2, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
        • Reality

          To my sister and brother Muslims:

          Your way out if you have the courage:

          From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–

          The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

          ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

          Are you ready?

          Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

          The First Five of the 77 Branches:

          "1. Belief in Allah"

          aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

          "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

          Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

          "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

          A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

          "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

          Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

          Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

          Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

          "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
          be upon him) alone."

          Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

          Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

          Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

          Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

          August 2, 2013 at 11:53 pm |
        • mzh

          Dear Reality,

          Every soul will be compensated with what it earned on that day, we just have to be patient till the day we meet our creator for accountability... He is most just and He would not do any injustice with His creation....

          Salam

          August 3, 2013 at 7:14 am |
        • Reality

          To my sister and brother Muslims,

          3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

          This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, the Filipino “koranics”and the Boston Marthon bombers.

          And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

          Current crises:

          The Sunni-Shiite global blood feud (e.g. Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan) and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

          August 3, 2013 at 7:57 am |
        • mzh

          Reality,

          you sounds ignorant one... i ask u to know the truth before u post any lies like this....

          August 4, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
        • Reality

          "The Two Universal Sects

          They all err—Moslems, Jews,
          Christians, and Zoroastrians:

          Humanity follows two world-wide sects:

          One, man intelligent without religion,

          The second, religious without intellect. "

          Al-Ma'arri
          , born AD 973 /, died AD 1058 / .

          Al-Ma’arri was a blind Arab philosopher, poet and writer.[1][2] He was a controversial rationalist of his time, attacking the dogmas of religion and rejecting the claim that Islam possessed any monopoly on truth."

          Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/resalat-al-ghufran#ixzz1lI6DuZmZ and http://www.humanistictexts.org/al_ma'arri.htm

          Death's Debt is Paid in
          Full

          Death's debt is then and there
          Paid down by dying men;

          But it is a promise bare
          That they shall rise again.

          Al-Ma'arri

          August 4, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
        • mzh

          dear Reality,

          this is not something new, right after prophet Muhammad died, ppl started claiming to be prophet from different tribe even an arab woman claimed to be prophet but none could succeed as they proved to be false.

          the quran itself confirms that the seal of prophethood and the last message till the end of life...

          peace be upon you...

          August 5, 2013 at 12:49 am |
        • Reality

          o Once again we come to save mzh and the other 1.3 billion lost Muslims from their Three B Syndrome, i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam but this time reducing the Five Steps for Deprogramming Islam to One Step in order to by-pass most of the language barrier:

          Gabriel never existed!!!!!! No Gabriel, no communiques from heaven and therefore Islam has no foundation!!!

          from Google Translate:

          غابرييل لم تكن موجودة!!!!!! لا غابرييل، لا بالبيانات من السماء، وبالتالي لا يوجد لديه أساس الإسلام

          August 5, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      "There are numerous accounts reporting the incident, which differ in the construction and detail of the narrative, but they may be broadly collated to produce a basic account. The different versions of the story are all traceable to one single narrator Muhammad ibn Ka'b, who was two generations removed from biographer Ibn Ishaq. In its essential form, the story reports that Muhammad longed to convert his kinsmen and neighbors of Mecca to Islam. As he was reciting Sūra an-Najm, considered a revelation by the angel Gabriel, Satan tempted him to utter the following lines after verses 19 and 20:

      Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzzá
      and Manāt, the third, the other?
      These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for.

      Allāt, al-'Uzzā and Manāt were three goddesses worshiped by the Meccans. (The daughters of the moon-god).
      Islam is a moon-god cult, as anyone who has taken Comparative Mythology or Comparative Religions, knows.

      August 2, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Douglas

      mzh, that's not an invitation. It's just cr@p you copied and pasted from yet another mythbook. So, I decline the "invitation". Stuff it already, along with the rest of the rubbish that you persist in posting here.

      August 2, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
      • mzh

        I m thankful to my creator that atleast one person confirmed reading it...

        August 3, 2013 at 7:10 am |
    • Richard Cranium

      That is not from any god almighty. That is from the works of men.

      August 4, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
      • mzh

        dear richard,
        i advice you to read it with patient till the end and see if any human brain can come up with any of it... and its an open challange for the mankid as it was for arab idolators at that time and they were the master of this language and failed and eventually the accepted it as the truth...
        salam

        August 5, 2013 at 12:53 am |
        • Reality

          Many OT, NT and koran thu-mpers are actually thu-mping the rules and codes of the ancients like King Hammurabi and the Egyptians who wrote the Book of the Dead and who did NOT need revelations from angels or mountain voices to develop needed rules of conduct for us h-o-minids.

          "Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths.

          I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty.

          I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . .

          Behold, I am come unto thee.

          I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee.

          I have not sinned against anyone.

          I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .

          I have not reviled the God.

          I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.

          I have not done what the God abominates . . .
          I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
          I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
          I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
          I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
          I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
          I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
          I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
          I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
          I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
          I have not blocked the God at his processions."

          "The Book of the Dead was written circa 1800 BCE. 2 The Schofield Reference Bible estimates that the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt and the provision of the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai occurred in 1491 BCE., some three centuries later. Many religious liberals, historians, and secularists have concluded that the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments were based on this earlier docu-ment, rather than vice-versa."

          And the Koran was plagiarized from books like Hammurabi's Code, the Book of the Dead and the OT etc.

          August 5, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
        • Richard Cranium

          mhz
          The human mind has come up with this and more. All indications, all evidence is that men created this and all other religions. please show any evidence to the cobtrary

          August 9, 2013 at 1:05 am |
  17. DRJJJ

    Spreading the gospel should be the first priority for those in Christian leadership!

    August 2, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • Psych nurse

      You mean YOUR personal interpretation of only the 4, which were non-unanimous VOTED into the canon ? .
      There is no "gospel". There are many many gospels.
      Should they spread the Gospel of Thomas ? Of Judas ? of Mary Magdalene ? Of Secret Mark ?
      You mean the "Q" doc'ument, which was elaborated upon, and expanded later ?

      August 2, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
  18. Rev. Rick

    Quoting the article, "Dolan closed his blog post by lamenting that so much media coverage has concentrated on "these weary issues" rather than "the noble themes that ran through Copacabana Beach," where World Youth Day was held."

    These are "weary issues" only because the church is weary of hearing about them, not because they are not important. I agree there were "noble themes", too. But as the world shrinks (figuratively speaking) and as humanity outgrows outdated traditions and outdated theology, these issue are not going away.

    August 2, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • Rocket surgeon

      To say nothing of outdated ancient angry war-god deities, (Yahweh Sabaoth) who required a human sacrifice before he could feel better.

      August 2, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
  19. GY

    The Catholic schools teach evolution and not intelligent design!

    August 2, 2013 at 9:41 am |
    • Rocket surgeon

      Really ? Then why is it forbidden to discuss Evolution on Catholic Answers.com ?

      August 2, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
      • TheGrimJester

        I have had nine years of catholic schooling and learned evolution. In fact it was not till I went to a public school that I was ever introduced to creationism. I believe Pope John Paul 2(the most recent) said that evolution exists along side the Bible.

        August 6, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • ME II

      @Rocket Surgeon,
      Interesting link, thanks.
      Is it specified somewhere that evolution is thema non grata?

      August 2, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
      • ME II

        Wow, I thought the RCC was actually more flexible than most denominations of Christianity... until this:

        "Concerning your presupposition about "all the evidence proving evolution," understand that the theory of evolution is not only not proven, but many scholars are abandoning it as at odds with scientific findings. To learn about problems with the theory of evolution, you might read Darwin on Trial by Philip E. Johnson and Evolution: A Theory in Crisis by Michael Denton." [emphasis added]
        (http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/given-the-evidence-for-evolution-are-catholics-required-to-believe-adam-and-eve-exist )

        August 2, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          ME II, here is the actual stance of the Catholic faith regarding bio-evolution. If you compare Mr. Denton's discussion which he presents as a Catholic in the discussion and not as a spokesperson for the Vatican, you can see he is merely exercising his option to contribute to the discussion. In that regard, he is more prudent than our friend Galileo Galilee, who insisted his science become dogmatic prematurely.

          August 2, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          forgot to paste the catechism:

          159. Faith and science: "... methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." (Vatican II GS 36:1) 283. The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers.... 284. The great interest accorded to these studies is strongly stimulated by a question of another order, which goes beyond the proper domain of the natural sciences. It is not only a question of knowing when and how the universe arose physically, or when man appeared, but rather of discovering the meaning of such an origin....

          August 2, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          H.L. Mencken observed that:

          [The advantage of Catholics] lies in the simple fact that they do not have to decide either for Evolution or against it. Authority has not spoken on the subject; hence it puts no burden upon conscience, and may be discussed realistically and without prejudice. A certain wariness, of course, is necessary. I say that authority has not spoken; it may, however, speak tomorrow, and so the prudent man remembers his step. But in the meanwhile there is nothing to prevent him examining all available facts, and even offering arguments in support of them or against them—so long as those arguments are not presented as dogma.[21]

          August 2, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
        • Rocket surgeon

          Unfortunately "authority" HAS spoken. It's not the old-men-in-red-dresses type of authority, but science has spoken. There is no credible debate about Evolution. DNA proves Evolution. All law courts in this nation accept DNA. Anyone who says they don't accept Evolution is simply ignorant of Genetics, and Biochemistry.

          August 2, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
      • Rocket surgeon

        Yes it is ME II.Can't remember where though.

        August 2, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.