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August 24th, 2013
08:40 AM ET

Should Christianity be so boring?

Opinion by Jon Acuff, Special to CNN

(CNN) - No one has ever accused us Christians of being fun.

No one has ever said we are a laugh-filled group.

No atheist has ever said, “I might not love Jesus, but his followers sure know how to party!”

And yet, in my favorite story in the Bible we actually see Jesus paint the opposite picture.

If you’re a Christian, you’ve heard the Parable of the Prodigal Son in the Gospel of Luke referenced in approximately 42 million sermons. If you’ve missed it though, allow me to summarize.

A young son said to his dad, who represents God, “I want my inheritance.” This was the cultural equivalent of saying, “I wish you were dead!” The father gives him the money. The son immediately runs off to the Jersey shore and fist pumps the night away with 4 Loko and Skrillex. [Not a direct translation.]

After squandering all the money and awakening in a pig pen, the son devises a plan. He will come home, apologize and throw himself at the mercy of the father. His greatest hope is that the father will let him be a servant. He can’t even imagine getting to keep the title “son.”

He comes home expecting punishment, but instead something weird happens.

The father sees him from a distance and sprints toward him. He runs toward him and embraces him. Before the son can even get his whole apology out, the father has already started planning the last thing he expected.

A party.

Instead of punishment he gets a party.

The idea that God fixes problems with parties is crazy.

Who does that?

Life doesn’t work that way. Imagine that you messed up at work. Your boss called you in and said, “Johnson you lost our biggest account! You just cost this company more than 3 million dollars. You know what that makes me want to do? Throw you a party!”

Or think about this in the context of a marriage. Have you ever had an argument with your spouse? Not a fake argument but one that lands you on the couch overnight.

You come into the kitchen and your wife is doing that “mad dishwashing” move we all do when we’re upset. Just power scrubbing pots and pans with a vengeance, mumbling the entire time.

You approach her slowly and say, “Heyyyy baby, how do you feel this morning?” Without looking at you, she takes a deep breath and says, “You really hurt my feelings. Last night, you really surprised me by what you did. My mom was right about you. I’m so angry and disappointed. This whole thing makes me want to get an inflatable bounce house and throw a huge celebration in your honor!”

That would be ludicrous.

Our worst mistakes don’t end in parties, but in this story in the Bible, it did.

When given the opportunity to talk to a group of people, the picture Jesus drew of his Father was of a party giver; someone who met sinners with welcome home banners.

What if Christians were like that?

What if churches became the place where failures found new beginnings?

What if we were known for our parties, not for our Pharisees?

It all feels a little crazy, but I don’t think it’s impossible.

Christians should offer hope in exchange for hurt, new in exchange for old, parties in exchange for pain.

Are we there yet?

Nope, we’ve got a long way to go. We’ve still got a lot of things to work through, a lot of progress we have to make.

But when you think about the prodigal son story, I hope you will remember something.

Two people moved.

One walked.

One ran.

And we prodigals are the walkers.

We still have a running God.

And he is ready to throw a party.

Jon Acuff is a keynote speaker and the author of four books including The New York Times best-seller, START. Acuff is also the author of the popular blog, Stuff Christians Like.net.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jon Acuff

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church • Opinion

soundoff (4,711 Responses)
  1. @Brother Maynard

    @ Guest –
    So Bible prophesy is true. Excellent!!!
    What will be the biggest world event in 2014 ? An earthquake ? Where?? or maybe a political over throw of a country ? Which one?? What day ? or maybe the BIG on JC second coming ? where ?? what day ?
    please inform us
    August 27, 2013 at 12:37 pm
    That is a good challenge, fortunately there are some answers, however all timeline prophecies ended with the 2300 day prophecy of Daniel 8 which ended in 1844, but this was not some earth shattering event that was witnessed by mankind, rather it was, if you please, a cosmic event: an event that took place in heaven.
    There are other predictions that are now taking place or will take place in the future. Read the ‘woes’ of Isaiah 5, these are just a few of the things that are happening now. The antichrist, 666,(Revelation 13:18) is still to be revealed. We have yet to see the mark of the beast (which is not a literal mark, but rather the choice tl wlorshp the beast or to worship God.) And those who do not have the mark of the beast can neither sell or buy. Revelation 13 (BTW, you will notice that those who receive the mark of the beast receive it in the hand or in forehead: this is symbolic: those who receive the mark in the hand are those who do not worship the beast, but nonetheless obey the beast, and those who receive the mark in their forehead are those who actually worship the beast.
    Someone mentioned Herald Camping. Although he may have predicted the coming of Christ, Matthew 24:36 Jesus said: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” In my opinion, Camping didn’t believe the Bible.
    Read more predictions of Jesus hmself in Matthew 24, some have taken place, some are taking place, others will take place i the future.
    Have a good day. I have a lot of things to do.

    August 29, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Sue

      Cite any instance of bible "prophecy" of an event with a specific predicted date of occurrence, and then show that the predicted event happened on that exact date. So far, no one has ever shown that. Anyone can say e.g. "a disaster is going to happen", and enough bad stuff happens that it will. Show exact dates or shush up your nonsense already.

      August 29, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      I predict more and more people will turn away from organized religion. I predict that there will be humans who take up arms and kill other humans in wars and conflicts from one place to another. I predict humans will begin integrating with their technology by implanting cell phones and key pads under their skin and many will be wear glasses that enable us to have instant info on anything we are looking at. I predict that humans will no longer have to drive themselves around taking huge risks in automobiles but there will be automated vehicles which reduce road accidents by 90% in the next 20 years. I predict humans will begin finding new sources of protein such as insects to supplement their diet as fish and beef become scarce resources. I predict the next major world war will happen within 60 years and will be fought over clean drinking water sources. I predict the next major migration will be the near billion people living along low lying coastal plains that will be underwater within 40 years. The are my predictions, some have taken place, some are taking place, others will take place i the future.

      Oh, and if you were looking for a specific event on a specific date, well I can't give that to you and neither does the bible. Much like the bible I stayed within larger generalities which are predictions of trends based upon known habits of humanity and climate trend data.

      August 29, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • UncleBenny

      Matthew 24:

      4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

      These seem to be the most commonly cited "signs" of the end times. But c'mon, these "signs" have been happening throughout history, before and after Jesus, and no end times yet. The level of actual warfare in the world today is quite low, compared to the 1st half of the 20th Century and just about any other century you can name. It seems high to some people because those wars that are happening are in the news 24 hours a day.

      Get a grip – it's been almost 2000 years, He ain't coming back.

      August 29, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
      • hharri

        even he didn't know

        August 29, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
        • UncleBenny

          Obviously not, since he got this really, really wrong:

          Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

          August 29, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
        • hharri

          like the 3,000 who were ushered into his kingdom on pentecost

          August 29, 2013 at 7:56 pm |
        • Maani

          Benny:

          This is what comes of taking Scripture out of context. Here is the entire passage:

          "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh into the glory of his Father with the holy angels. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

          There are two things to consider here. First, He talks about coming "INTO the glory of his Father" (Emphasis mine.) This occurred during His resurrection. Then He says that some of those hearing His words will see the kingdom of God "COME with power." (Emphasis mine.) This is NOT about the "Second Coming." Rather, the kingdom of God "came with power" when the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles (and some disciples) – which obviously occurred while many of those who heard Him were still alive.

          Re the Second Coming, Jesus makes very clear that, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

          August 30, 2013 at 9:02 pm |
  2. Vic

    [
    “Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, (why) do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms?”

    Charles Darwin
    ]

    I always had a basic idea about the Cambrian Explosion, that is animal life popping up at an accelerating rate out of nowhere, and I did not need to know the Biological Science behind it to believe that Evolution is unproven. Evolution is so improbable that it is biologically impossible! Mathematically, anything less probable than 10^49 (another standard is 10^150) IS IMPOSSIBLE! The "evolution of the first living cell" is less probable than 10^4,478,146! Need not mention the flawed Fossil Record! Here is a clue:

    August 29, 2013 at 9:04 am |
    • Vic

      This is posted on my previous thread. Please discard this thread.

      August 29, 2013 at 9:10 am |
      • Dyslexic doG

        please discard your brain ... you're obviously not using it!

        August 29, 2013 at 10:34 am |
      • Observer

        The most compelling argument in favor of "evolution" is that it gives an unfettered freedom to call others brainless. Evolution wins because of the leeway it offers. Calling someone an idiot, moron or brainless requires a lot of Substantia grisea.

        August 29, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      Vic, First the Cambrian Explosion is a misnomer and evolution seems to have proceeded at the expected rate over the millions of years of the Cambrian era, second the post hoc argument fails – we see proof of evolution daily so it cannot be impossible.

      August 29, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • Idiot, use the quote in context

      why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? It will be more convenient to discuss this question in the chapter on the Imperfection of the Geological Record; and I will here only state that I believe the answer mainly lies in the record being incomparably less perfect than is generally supposed. The crust of the earth is a vast museum; but the natural connections have been imperfectly made, and only at long intervals of time.

      August 29, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
      • UncleBenny

        Yes, typical creationist tactic, lift a Darwin quote totally out of its context and use that as an attack on evolutionary theory. Darwin was actually posing a series of questions which he then carefully answered. To this one he said (in part):

        "To sum up, I believe that species come to be tolerably well-defined objects, and do not at any one period present an inextricable chaos of varying and intermediate links: firstly, because new varieties are very slowly formed, for variation is a very slow process, and natural selection can do nothing until favourable variations chance to occur, and until a place in the natural polity of the country can be better filled by some modification of some one or more of its inhabitants. And such new places will depend on slow changes of climate, or on the occasional immigration of new inhabitants, and, probably, in a still more important degree, on some of the old inhabitants becoming slowly modified, with the new forms thus produced and the old ones acting and reacting on each other. So that, in any one region and at any one time, we ought only to see a few species presenting slight modifications of structure in some degree permanent; and this assuredly we do see."

        August 30, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
        • Maani

          Hmm...let's see what Stephen Jay Gould, perhaps this age's most respected evolutionary biologist, had to say:

          "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils."

          "Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of Darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs – and equally compatible with atheism."

          "To say it for all my colleagues for the umpteenth millionth time, science simply cannot, by its legitimate methods, adjudicate the issue of God's possible superintendence of nature. We neither affirm nor deny it."

          August 30, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
  3. Two parties, two different outcomes!

    Jon,

    Speaking of parties, one "party" ended with pigs, the other ended in celebration.

    Lesson: Choose how you "party" wisely, not all parties lead to celebration, after all one might land you amongst pigs!!! 😉

    August 29, 2013 at 8:53 am |
    • Solomon

      Be careful who you listen to, one might land you with the 'herd'.

      August 29, 2013 at 8:56 am |
      • Two parties, two different outcomes!

        😉

        August 29, 2013 at 8:57 am |
  4. kenrick Benjamin

    Man was given the will to choose, but not free will because of consequences. God could not gave man free will because he knew that everything in the Universe is Govern by laws and if those laws are broken they are consequences to be had. So what he gave Man is the will of choice but not free will.

    August 29, 2013 at 8:43 am |
    • Sara

      Which makes the whole concept of eternal punishment or reward pretty silly.

      August 29, 2013 at 9:09 am |
      • kenrick Benjamin

        No Sara, because God knows what is required for both Heaven and Hell. Now my interpretion of hell is a place where you are futherest remove from GOD and is consume (Burn) by your own desires, what ever that may be. On the other hand, Heaven is a place where discipline with regards to God's word is required. once again because he knows what is required.

        August 29, 2013 at 9:45 am |
        • kenrick Benjamin

          I meant interpretation.

          August 29, 2013 at 9:48 am |
        • Madtown

          Will we finally get to read "God's word", words actually written by God, in heaven?

          August 29, 2013 at 9:50 am |
        • kenrick Benjamin

          Madtown- The 10 commandments written by God himself. The only part of the Bible written by God.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:11 am |
        • fintastic

          kenrick.......... you are making claims about gods word, heaven, the 10 commandments,.... please provide evidence to substantiate these claims, otherwise it's nothing more than your imagination.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:49 am |
        • Madtown

          kenrick Benjamin
          The 10 commandments written by God himself.
          ----
          Wow, that's huge! How do you know this is true?

          August 29, 2013 at 10:55 am |
        • kenrick Benjamin

          Fintastic- The country of Ethiopia lay claim to the 10 Commandments. The guardians that protect the commandements would not allow outsiders to see or take the commandments.

          August 29, 2013 at 11:00 am |
        • Observer

          kenrick Benjamin,

          Which Ten Commandments? Moses had a hissy fit and destroyed the originals. He then got a different version.

          August 29, 2013 at 11:33 am |
        • kenrick Benjamin

          Observer- Same 10 Commandments just rewritten a second time.

          August 29, 2013 at 11:53 am |
        • Observer

          kenrick Benjamin

          "Observer- Same 10 Commandments just rewritten a second time."

          Nope. Read Exodus 34.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
        • kenrick Benjamin

          Observer- EXODUS 34 and I Quote- And the lord said to Moses, " Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and i will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke. How is it not the same 10 commandments.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
        • Brooklyn Bridge Salesman

          kenrick Benjamin
          "The country of Ethiopia lay claim to the 10 Commandments. The guardians that protect the commandements would not allow outsiders to see or take the commandments."

          Suuuuuuuuuure they do!

          p.s. Gee, I have a real super deal for you - call me!

          August 29, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • sam stone

      could you be a bit more clear on the difference between "free to choose" and "free will"?

      all choices have consequences, no matter what you call it

      August 30, 2013 at 6:22 am |
  5. iamjonahim

    Great post. Amazing to know a God like that

    August 29, 2013 at 3:16 am |
    • truthprevails1

      You mean a god that approves of rape; child abuse; oppression of women/LGBT; mass murder?? You obviously have never read your bible or you wouldn't be calling your god good.
      This is a good start for you to see how vindictive your god is:
      http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

      August 29, 2013 at 4:42 am |
      • itisanopinion,nottruth,prevaling1

        This man addresses every issue brought up from that website.

        http://www.berenddeboer.net/sab/

        August 29, 2013 at 10:44 am |
        • truthprevails1

          So a christian arguing for his god is supposed to be reliable?? I expect christians to argue for their god; if they didn't it would mean they're questioning their belief and for far too many that is a very frightening thing to do. The scripture posted on the site I listed is noted in the same bible that you hold as being factual; that you hold as being the word of this apparent good god.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:57 am |
      • iamjonahim

        no, i mean it's amazing to know a God that would throw a party for me... never said anything about Him approving of the stuff you mentioned. the one Jon mentioned in the post...

        August 29, 2013 at 10:55 am |
        • truthprevails1

          The one Jon mentioned in his article is the christian god. It is the same god I have described. It is not something to worship or idolize or respect. Stop being a blind child and read the bible for yourself from beginning to end!

          August 29, 2013 at 11:03 am |
      • FellowTraveler

        Ah, the same never ending questions of the atheist. Why do bad things happen to good people? What kind of God would allow such suffering? He must not exist or he must be evil. Really? How about the realization that an eternal God cares more about our eternal souls than our temporary, physical bodies?

        August 29, 2013 at 11:23 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Why would an Atheist ask those questions when there is zero evidence to support your god exists?

          August 29, 2013 at 11:24 am |
        • A Frayed Knot

          FellowTraveler,
          "How about the realization that an eternal God cares more about our eternal souls than our temporary, physical bodies?"

          Realization? Replace that word with "idea" or "fantasy". There is nothing proven to be "real" about it.

          August 29, 2013 at 11:47 am |
  6. Vic

    I second motion switching gears for the moment. Here we go, spread the knowledge:

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CwL7xXUriE&w=640&h=360]

    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/08/promote_free_sp075761.html

    August 28, 2013 at 9:12 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      That book will only fool the people who want to be fooled, which in the US is millions upon millions. Written well and argued admirably (though dishonestly), the text does NOT take into account the actual, true, real scientific facts "in hand" on the Cambrian "explosion." The data perfectly aligns with evolutionary theory and ADDS information to the fact of evolution.

      August 28, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
      • Vic

        Did you check the commentary on this news article about the book?!

        August 28, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
      • Vic

        Did you check the commentary on this news article about the book?!

        http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/08/promote_free_sp075761.html

        August 28, 2013 at 9:34 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Come on Vic, that site is just another (un)intelligent design site trying to masquerade as a science site. Using it as a reference for Meyer's latest book is circular logic, same as saying "The Babble is true because The Babble says it's true." You might think atheists are dumb but we're a lot smarter than you appear to think.

          August 28, 2013 at 9:42 pm |
        • Vic

          The above website is affiliated with the "Discovery Channel," check the first hyperlink on the following "Discovery Channel" webpage:

          http://www.discovery.org/csc/

          August 28, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
        • chubby rain

          You mean the "Discovery Insti-tute." They were the creationist shrills that got thoroughly embarrassed and discredited during the Dover trials.

          August 28, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
        • Vic

          "Discovery Institute," that's right!

          August 28, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Citing a creationist site as critical reviewer of creationist book is inherently dishonest. Bad interpretation of good science does not prove anything, except for the lack of integrity in the author and those who use his lies to try to support their position.

          Real science will prove your beliefs wrong, Vic. Every time.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          The Discovery Channel is almost as dishonest as the Discovery Inst.itue.

          I can see why you would like the Dicovery Insti.tute though Vic, they keep their evidence for Intelligent Design in the same place you do, in their head.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
      • Cpt. Obvious

        No, Vic, I had already researched it. The Cambrian explosion is a very interesting time in our evolutionary history, but it is not what Darwin and other scientists have thought it might be. The data from the Cambrian period adds to our knowledge of evolution and strengthens the theory. If it were as Darwin thought it might be and how it has been portrayed by some, then it might affect the theory of evolution differently than it does.

        And, remember, even if the theory of evolution needed to be modified very drastically, that would be a GOOD thing for the theory, and nothing about the theory of evolution has any bearing on the existence of any god. Duh.

        August 28, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
        • Vic

          [
          "Meyer demonstrates, based on cutting-edge molecular biology, why explaining the origin of animals is now not just a problem of missing fossils, but an even greater engineering problem at the molecular level....An excellent book and a must read." –Dr. Russell Carlson, Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, University of Georgia – See more at: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/08/promote_free_sp075761.html#sthash.xAWHuq8N.dpuf
          ]

          August 28, 2013 at 10:02 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Vic
          "Another common tactic of creationists is credential mongering. They love to flaunt their Ph.D.’s on their book covers, giving the uninitiated the impression that they are all-purpose experts in every topic. As anyone who has earned a Ph.D. knows, the opposite is true: the doctoral degree forces you to focus on one narrow research problem for a long time, so you tend to lose your breadth of training in other sciences. Nevertheless, they flaunt their doctorates in hydrology or biochemistry, then talk about paleontology or geochronology, subjects they have zero qualification to discuss. Their Ph.D. is only relevant in the field where they have specialized training. It’s comparable to asking a Ph.D. to fix your car or write a symphony—they may be smart, but they don’t have the appropriate specialized training to do a competent job based on their Ph.D. alone.
          Stephen Meyer’s first demonstration of these biases was his atrociously incompetent book Signature in the Cell (2009, HarperOne), which was universally lambasted by molecular biologists as an amateurish effort by someone with no firsthand training or research experience in molecular biology. (Meyer’s Ph.D. is in history of science, and his undergrad degree is in geophysics, which give him absolutely no background to talk about molecular evolution). Undaunted by this debacle, Meyer now blunders into another field in which he has no research experience or advanced training...."

          There's much much more at http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/13-08-07/#feature

          August 28, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
        • Vic

          http://www.stephencmeyer.org/biography.php

          August 28, 2013 at 10:24 pm |
        • Bob

          Vic, read this please. The whole article.

          http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/fulltext.html

          August 28, 2013 at 11:59 pm |
        • UncleBenny

          Here's an excerpt a review by Donald Prothero for Skeptic magazine. Prothero is a recognized palaeontologist and geologist, in other words someone with the expertise to comment on Meyer's blather.

          "Stephen Meyer’s first demonstration of these biases was his atrociously incompetent book Signature in the Cell (2009, HarperOne), which was universally lambasted by molecular biologists as an amateurish effort by someone with no firsthand training or research experience in molecular biology. (Meyer’s Ph.D. is in history of science, and his undergrad degree is in geophysics, which give him absolutely no background to talk about molecular evolution). Undaunted by this debacle, Meyer now blunders into another field in which he has no research experience or advanced training: my own profession, paleontology. I can now report that he’s just as incompetent in my field as he was in molecular biology. Almost every page of this book is riddled by errors of fact or interpretation that could only result from someone writing in a subject way over his head, abetted by the creationist tendency to pluck facts out of context and get their meaning completely backwards. But as one of the few people in the entire creationist movement who has actually taken a few geology classes (but apparently no paleontology classes), he is their “expert” in this area, and is happy to mislead the creationist audience that knows no science at all with his slick but completely false understanding of the subject."

          August 30, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
        • Maani

          Santa:

          You talk about creationists and other believers who tout Ph.D.'s in specific subjects, but how Ph.D.'s actually "narrow" one's field, etc. Let's look at the other side of this coin, shall we?

          Richard Dawkins has a Ph.D. in zoology. Daniel Dennett has a Ph.D. in philosophy. Sam Harris has a Ph.D. in cognitive neuroscience. So what, exactly, gives ANY of them the right to "apply" those Ph.D.'s to theology, and more specifically to such particularized areas as apologetics, New Testament history, Scriptural interpretation, etc.?

          What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

          August 30, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
      • Cpt. Obvious

        Vic, would you like to have a discussion about the Cambrian Epoch? Can you tell me your stance on two issues, first?

        Why does the Cambrian explosion prove an "outside engineer?"
        What data from the Cambian era provides information required for cogency on an argument for the existence of the Judeo Christian god?

        August 28, 2013 at 9:51 pm |
        • Vic

          Check Molecular Biologist Stephen C. Meyer's Book Darwin's Doubt.

          August 28, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
        • Vic

          Correction:

          Dr. Stephen C. Meyer is a Physicist. Sorry about the confusion!

          August 28, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
        • chubby rain

          Correction:

          Dr. Meyers is a scholar and philosopher of science (according to wiki). He does not contribute to scientific research, instead publishing books that only contribute to his wallet. There has never been an actual scientific experiment that has supported intelligent design and there never will be. It is an unfalsifiable idea "falling short of a hypothesis" and not science.

          August 28, 2013 at 10:25 pm |
        • Vic

          [
          "Stephen C. Meyer (born 1958) is an American scholar, philosopher of science and advocate for intelligent design. He helped found the Center for Science and Culture (CSC) of the Discovery Institute (DI), which is the main organization behind the intelligent design movement.[1][2][3] Before joining the DI, Meyer was a professor at Whitworth College. Meyer is currently director at the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture and Senior Fellow at the DI."

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_C._Meyer
          ]

          August 28, 2013 at 10:33 pm |
        • chubby rain

          Exactly, vic. Meyer is not a scientist. He is a shrill promoting an agenda.

          Please present one plausible experiment that could be conducted in support of intelligent design. Just one...shouldn't be too hard, right?

          August 28, 2013 at 10:36 pm |
        • chubby rain

          From wiki about Meyer's book: Signature in the Cell

          Darrel Falk, former president of the BioLogos Foundation and a biology professor at Point Loma Nazarene University, reviewed the book and used it as an example of why he does not support the intelligent design movement.[38] Falk wrote that the book contains many incorrect claims such as "Meyer correctly concluded that no RNA molecule had ever been evolved in a test tube which could do more than join two building blocks together."[38] Falk was critical of Meyer's declaration of scientists, such as Michael Lynch, being wrong without Meyer conducting any experiments to falsify the established work in the field.[38] Falk wrote, "the book is supposed to be a science book and the ID movement is purported to be primarily a scientific movement—not primarily a philosophical, religious, or even popular movement."[38] Falk concluded, "If the object of the book is to show that the Intelligent Design movement is a scientific movement, it has not succeeded. In fact, what it has succeeded in showing is that it is a popular movement grounded primarily in the hopes and dreams of those in philosophy, in religion, and especially those in the general public."

          August 28, 2013 at 10:40 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          No, vik, pay attention. I'm asking if YOU want to have a discussion with ME about the Cambrian age. Do you or not?

          August 28, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
        • Vic

          I am not qualified to discuss this subject whatsoever, I am learning about the Cambrian Explosion as I am reading about it!

          Here are some testimonials regarding Dr. Meyer's Book Darwin's Doubt:
          [
          "It's hard for us paleontologists to admit that neo-Darwinian explanations for the Cambrian explosion have failed miserably....Meyer describes the dimensions of the problem with clarity and precision. His book is a game changer." –Dr. Mark McMenamin, paleontologist, Mt. Holyoke College and co-author of The Emergence of Animals (Columbia University Press)

          "Darwin's Doubt represents an opportunity for bridge-building rather than dismissive polarization–bridges across cultural divides in great need of professional, respectful dialogue–and bridges to span evolutionary gaps." –Dr. George Church, Professor of Genetics, Harvard Medical School

          "Darwin's Doubt is by far the most up-to-date, accurate, and comprehensive review of the evidence from all relevant scientific fields that I have encountered in more than forty years of studying the Cambrian explosion." –Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, Senior Scientist Emeritus, Max Planck Institute for Plant Breeding Research

          "Meyer demonstrates, based on cutting-edge molecular biology, why explaining the origin of animals is now not just a problem of missing fossils, but an even greater engineering problem at the molecular level....An excellent book and a must read." –Dr. Russell Carlson, Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, University of Georgia

          "Darwin's Doubt is an intriguing exploration of one of the most remarkable periods in the evolutionary history of life.... No matter what convictions one holds about evolution, Darwinism, or intelligent design, Darwin's Doubt is a book that should be read, engaged and discussed." –Dr. Scott Turner, Professor of Biology, State University of New York

          – See more at: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/08/promote_free_sp075761.html#sthash.xAWHuq8N.8UmepdKM.dpuf
          ]

          August 28, 2013 at 11:08 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Vic – hard to believe all those reviews come from an intelligent design website.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:12 pm |
        • chubby rain

          Vic, science doesn't require testimonials. It requires data and experiments, none of which Meyer provides.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Vic, the questions I asked were very simple. In essence, you are putting forth an argument that you only imply but will never articulate. I have researched the text.

          According to you, Vic, why should facts about the Cambrian era conflict with what I know of evolution?
          According to you, Vic, why should such concerns about evolution affect my belief in your god one way or the other?

          I'm willing to listen to you, if you'll just actually say whatever it is you think I should believe and for what reasons.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:23 pm |
        • Vic

          Testimonials by real scientists:

          http://www.darwinsdoubt.com/blurbs/

          August 28, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Disingenuous, subject-changing, question avoiding Christians exactly like Vic.....leading the free world in turning people off from Christianity.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:28 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Vic, why should I be so patient and willing to listen to your argument when you continually refuse to offer it?

          August 28, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
        • Bob

          Vic, please read this: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/fulltext.html

          August 29, 2013 at 12:01 am |
        • Vic

          Here is what I got from the short video clip introducing Dr. Stephens C. Meyer's Book Darwin's Doubt:

          "The absence of the ancestral fossils prior to the emergence of the first forms of animal lives" is the main clue that Charles Darwin missed in his master piece "The Origin Of Species." Charles Darwin doubted the Cambrian Explosion and what has become of it!

          [
          "The Cambrian explosion has generated extensive scientific debate. The seemingly rapid appearance of fossils in the “Primordial Strata” was noted as early as the 1840s,[8] and in 1859 Charles Darwin discussed it as one of the main objections that could be made against his theory of evolution by natural selection.[9] The long-running puzzlement about the appearance of the Cambrian fauna, seemingly abruptly and from nowhere, centers on three key points: whether there really was a mass diversification of complex organisms over a relatively short period of time during the early Cambrian; what might have caused such rapid change; and what it would imply about the origin and evolution of animals. Interpretation is difficult due to a limited supply of evidence, based mainly on an incomplete fossil record and chemical signatures remaining in Cambrian rocks."

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion
          ]

          In simple terms, the Origin of life is missing from Darwin's Theory of Evolution and UNKNOWN to science, and I believe is God Almighty, the Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit!

          August 29, 2013 at 12:17 am |
        • chubby rain

          You know if you did even a small amount of research, you'd find out about Meyer's flawed methodology and ignorance of basic biochemistry. Start with Wikipedia.

          August 29, 2013 at 9:41 am |
        • fintastic

          Very interesting Vic but how is any of this evidence for the exsistence of the christian god?

          August 29, 2013 at 10:53 am |
        • In Santa we trust

          Vic, Evolution is not about the origin of life. Although we're not yet sure on how life was created, the conditions required are known and in fact there is a recent discovery that those conditions may have existed on Mars and life was transported here on a meteor. No god required.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
        • Wendell

          Vic, Meyer is NOT a Physicist, nor even a scientist. His "science" wouldn't last 60 seconds in a debate in a Physics dept. coffee room, nor in that of pretty much any other scientific discipline.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
        • Vic

          You don't seem to understand!

          For Evolution to be valid, it requires "the presence of the ancestral fossils prior to the emergence of the first forms of animal life," which are completely missing from Charles Darwin's research and from Evolutionary Biology to date! Meaning, life DID NOT evolve!

          The reason those fossils are missing is that the Origin of all life is Metaphysical!

          Regarding Abiogenesis, I addressed that before, and most Christians regard it the same as Evolution. At any rate, Life simply CAN NOT spring out of inanimate matter on its own. That has NOT been scientifically proven, to date, and regardless of creating amino acids (basic parts of proteins) in the lab, just like we have carbon as a basic of life; but to put (not to mention bring into existence) the ingredients (matter) together and animate (make alive) them is something else, in a nutshell!

          August 29, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Irwin

      Thanks for sharing.

      August 28, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
      • Vic

        You bet!

        August 28, 2013 at 9:34 pm |
        • Wendell

          You lost.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Honest, open-minded persons, even mentally ill delusional believers, will want to read the opposing view, a sample of which can be found here: http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/13-08-07/#feature.

      August 28, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Vic, rather than trying to debunk knowledge gained by the scientific method, you should spend your time revealing your factual, independent, objective and verifiable evidence for your most basic beliefs.

      August 28, 2013 at 9:47 pm |
    • chubby rain

      In the era of modern genetics, I'm amazed people can actually doubt the core principles of evolutionary theory...

      August 28, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
    • mzh

      who created the dna or rna or whatever you call it? can it come out of nowhere? it is already there and now our scientists are just naming it and explaining it to the mankind but that should not make a human not to believe in The Creator who created the entire universe and anything on it...

      It has been there since 14+ hundred years and now our scientist are just explaining it in more detail... that of course that should be appreciated... they are doing a great job... what is not great is taking or making people fool/blind from believing in the Creator...

      39:6 – He created you (all) from a single person (Adam); then made from him his wife [Hawwa' (Eve)]. And He has sent down for you of cattle eight pairs (of the sheep, two, male and female; of the goats, two, male and female; of the oxen, two, male and female; and of the camels, two, male and female). He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, creation after creation in three veils of darkness, such is Allah your Lord. His is the kingdom, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). How then are you turned away?

      In the above verse:

      "creation after creation" –
      means everyone of you is originally a Nutfah (a semen-drop 22:5), then he becomes an `Alaqah (clinging substance 96:2), then he becomes a Mudghah (the embryonic lump 23:14 – this verse actually gives all the stages meaning mentioned Nutfah then 'Alaqah and then Madghah.... subhanallah glory be to Allah The Almighty), then he is created and becomes flesh and bones and nerves and veins, and the Ruh (soul) is breathed into him, and he becomes another type of creation.

      "three veils of darknesses" –
      means in the darkness of the womb, the darkness of the placenta which blankets and protects the child, and the darkness of the belly.

      23:14 – Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

      August 28, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
      • chubby rain

        mzh, anything that doesn't start with a single-cell organism is wrong. Put down the Koran and pick up an introductory biology text.

        August 28, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
        • mzh

          Thanks for the clarifications...

          One thing is to know that the quran is not a book of science but it gives the clues of science or any discoveries of present days.. I understand that you might have the details more than the way it is mentioned in the quran...

          for me... I would not mind to accept the science as long as it does not contradicts wit the message of Quran... for example quran says human created from Adam and Adam created from dust but science tells us different... so I do not accept the explanation of science...

          and every single thing is being discovered is known to the one who created as it is mentioned in the quran in very high level:

          16:125 – Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islam) with wisdom (i.e. with the Quran) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.

          The quran is a book of guidance to be successful in both lives if one wants to ...

          Peace!!!

          August 29, 2013 at 12:02 am |
        • Kate

          mzh, enough of your dishonest exhortations of "peace" already. You've been caught out in your lies, and here are some excerpts of how violent the
          "guidance" in the Quran really demands that you be:

          It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

          Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

          Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

          ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

          But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

          Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

          O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

          Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

          When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

          Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

          mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

          August 29, 2013 at 12:10 am |
        • chubby rain

          mzh,

          Science is, quite simply, the best means we have of explaining reality. If you view the Koran as a metaphorical book, that's fine. If you believe in a literal interpretation, well, there are mountains upon mountains of evidence that disproves that. Some of this evidence has been used in medicine, in agriculture, in computer science, etc. and has redefined our lives in past 50 years.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:11 am |
        • mzh

          Thanks CR for the explanation and that is so nice of you... I appreciate it... what you are saying is all called in Quran as 'qadarallah' meaning the 'decree of Allah' and these are being discovered or uncovered whenever human is ready to accept it... as you mention about 50 years... prior to that we were not ready to receive it... so how could we expect something like that detail would be mentioned in book was reveled to people 14+ hundred years ago...

          and we also do not know what is waiting to be discovered may be in ten years or less from now... so I say Subhanallah meaning 'Glory to Allah' who helped mankind with knowledge that are needed when is the best time or human is ready to receive it...

          Peace be upon you and may He reward you and all other who is contributing to the mankind in any ways by making human's daily life easy and I thank The One who created the entire universe and anything on it and who is the sole owner and controller of every single even tinny little thinks like even a bacteria lives within us...

          August 29, 2013 at 12:22 am |
        • mzh

          Thank you Kate... that's nice of you... you know you are actually helping to spread the message around the earth and for sure you will be rewarded... I am glad you are doing it on behalf of other Muslims...

          I also think people are more educated by now about Islam than what you are trying to promote and that's why a good number of educated Americans are embracing Islam as their way of life with their own choice but not by force...

          Peace be upon you Kate 🙂

          August 29, 2013 at 12:25 am |
        • Kate

          mzh, enough of your dishonest exhortations of "peace" already and the rest of your lies. You've been caught out in your lies, and here are some excerpts of how violent the Quran really demands that you be:

          It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

          Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

          Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

          ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

          But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

          Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

          O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

          Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

          When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

          Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

          mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

          August 29, 2013 at 12:35 am |
        • mzh

          cr:

          I would also like to say regarding "If you view the Koran as a metaphorical book, that's fine" is that the Quran is fact as much as it is mentioned in it... for example the stages of human starts prior to conceive till the death it mentioned in it is real and proven by our medical technologies these days... it may not have as detail as it is discovered now... as quran is also not to teach that detail of any subjects but to guide mankind to worship one true God and believe in the Oneness of the Almighty who has not son or any sort of associates... and whatever is there nothing is metaphorical but fact...

          Peace..

          August 29, 2013 at 12:42 am |
        • Kate

          mzh, liar, enough of your dishonest exhortations of "peace" already and your promotion of your sickening religion of terror and bigotry. You've been caught out repeatedly in your lies, and here are some excerpts of how violent the Quran really demands that you be:

          It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

          Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

          Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

          ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

          But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

          Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

          O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

          Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

          When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

          Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

          mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

          August 29, 2013 at 11:05 am |
      • Reality

        mzh and all other Muslims out there:

        You are suffering from a severe case of the Bred, Born and Brainwashed Syndrome. The cure is easy as noted many times:

        From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–

        The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

        ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

        Are you ready?

        Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

        The First Five of the 77 Branches:

        "1. Belief in Allah"

        aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

        "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

        Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

        "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

        A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

        "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

        Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

        Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

        Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

        "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
        be upon him) alone."

        Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

        Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

        Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

        Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

        August 28, 2013 at 11:55 pm |
        • mzh

          Thanks Reality... that's nice of you... you know you are actually helping to spread the message around the earth and for sure you will be rewarded... I am glad you are doing it on behalf of other muslims... 🙂

          Peace....

          August 29, 2013 at 12:12 am |
        • Kate

          mzh, enough of your dishonest exhortations of "peace" already. You've been caught out repeatedly in your lies, and here are some excerpts of how violent the Quran really demands that you be:

          It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

          Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

          Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

          ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

          But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

          Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

          O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

          Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

          When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

          Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

          mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

          August 29, 2013 at 12:32 am |
        • mzh

          Thanks again Kate... I don't think people pay attention on your posting which creates or spreads hatred among the mankind....

          Peace be upon you and Reality as well... 🙂

          August 29, 2013 at 12:45 am |
        • Kate

          mzh, you liar, enough of your dishonest exhortations of "peace" already and your promotion of your sickening religion of terror and bigotry. You've been caught out repeatedly in your lies, and here are some excerpts of how violent the Quran really demands that you be:

          It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

          Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

          Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

          ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

          But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

          Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

          O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

          Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

          When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

          Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

          mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

          August 29, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • skytag

      Vic, one of our resident Christian simpletons with no background in science whatsoever is engaging in another desperate attempt to feel justified in denying reality.

      Sorry, Vic, but someone isn't right just because he has a degree and tells you what you want to hear. Meyer is just another Christian desperate to justify his belief in God, he's just smarter about it than you are. But as someone else pointed out, his degrees are not in fields of study germane to the subject matter in question.

      You promote what he says because he tells you what you want to hear, not because it's scientifically sound.

      August 29, 2013 at 12:51 am |
      • Vic

        LOL!

        August 29, 2013 at 8:42 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Vic
          The leading rabble rousers in the Creationist world – The Center for Science and Culture (sponsored by the Discovery Inst.itute) openly admit that their goal isn't to teach what they think is fact. An internal doc.ument leaked in 1999 described the Discovery group's objective in pushing for creationism to be taught in schools as "to defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies". They want to use Intelligent Design as a "wedge" to separate science from its allegiance to "atheistic naturalism".
          In other words, they fear that teaching FACTS to children will drive them away from religion.

          According to Dr. Greg Graffin's PhD thesis "Atheism, Monism and the Naturalist Worldview: Perspectives from Evolutionary Biology", the overwhelming majority of the world's leading evolutionary biologists find no conflict between religion and evolutionary theory on one condition: that religion be recognized solely as a sociological adaptation.
          They reject any kind of supernatural suppositions, leaving religion out in the cold when it comes to life's most meaningful questions.

          August 29, 2013 at 9:11 am |
        • Vic

          First, Evolution IS NOT FACT!

          Second, not all biologists are evolutionary!

          Third, without the Metaphysical First Cause, science can never explain the Origin of life, nor "matter" for that matter!

          August 29, 2013 at 9:39 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Evolution is fact.
          Even the Catholic church accepts that!
          There is an ever growing mountain of evidence from different branches of science accu.mulated over more than a hundred years that verify evolution.
          Creationists have yet to advance a single shred of evidence to support their assertions.

          Evidence for evolution appears in the fossil record, vestigial features, study of ebryonic development, biogeography, DNA sequencing, examining pseudogenes, study of endogenous retroviruses, labratory direct examination of natural selection in action in E-Coli bacteria, lactose intolerance in humans, the peppered moth's colour change in reaction to industrial pollution, radiotrophic fungi at Chernobyl all add to the modern evolutionary synthesis.
          We have directly observes speciation in Blackcap birds, fruit flies, mosquitos, mice, Shortfin molly fish.
          If you would like to see exactly how the improbable can happen, you can use the computer simulation of life's development called Avida.

          The principles of evolutionary biology are applied on a daily basis by countless people in disparate fields.
          Without a firm understanding of evolution, modern agriculture would be impossible.
          Pharmaceutical biochemistry would be non-existent, reducing our overall health and life expectancy.

          Computer programmers use a principle called "Evolutionary Computing / Genetic Algorithms". This engineering technique is routinely used in aerospace engineering, architecture, astrophysics, data mining, drug discovery and design, electrical engineering, finance, geophysics, materials engineering, military strategy, pattern recognition, robotics, scheduling, systems engineering and a host of other fields.

          Darwin's 5 laws are confirmed and used in practical applications every single day by people all over the world.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:09 am |
        • ME II

          @Vic,
          "Is Evolution a Theory or a Fact?
          It is both. But that answer requires looking more deeply at the meanings of the words 'theory' and 'fact.'"
          – National Academy of Sciences ( http://www.nas.edu/evolution/TheoryOrFact.html)

          August 29, 2013 at 10:36 am |
    • Sara

      wow...people are taking their biological science from someone with graduate work in philosophy and undergrad work in physics? Why not get your cancer treatment from the local geologist. Man, these folks have to stretch to get anyone support at all from the scientific community.

      August 29, 2013 at 9:05 am |
      • Vic

        Dr. Stephen C. Meyer has degrees in Physics and Earth Science!

        August 29, 2013 at 9:12 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Wonderful, a lot of brilliant men/women have believed in god but his work has been dismissed as having no scientific merit. ID can't be taught in any public school due to the complete lack of evidence supporting it.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:00 am |
        • Vic

          "Defamation of Character" is one of the oldest tricks in the book to divert attention from the truth of the matter!

          "Evolution" should never be taught in "Public Schools" either, for it is SCIENTIFICALLY UNPROVEN, and even worse, it doesn't make any sense! At least, "Creation" by God makes a lot of sense and matches our sentience!

          August 29, 2013 at 10:20 am |
        • ME II

          @Vic,
          Meyers has "B.S. in Physics/Earth Science" (http://www.stephencmeyer.org/curriculum-vitae.php). All higher degrees are Philosophy related. Hardly an expert in science, let alone biology.

          "Evolution" should never be taught in "Public Schools" either, for it is SCIENTIFICALLY UNPROVEN, and even worse, it doesn't make any sense! At least, "Creation" by God makes a lot of sense and matches our sentience!

          1) Science doesn't deal in "proof".
          2) The scientific Theory of Evolution is a well substantiated explanation of how species developed and diversified on this planet.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:31 am |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          Just because an obstetrician doesn't know how the first human baby was born doesn't mean we stop teaching obstetrics. Science is what we know by observation so we teach what we know regardless of the fact that we don't know everything. If we only taught things in school that we were 100% sure of we wouldn't be able to teach any history class, biology, physiscs, chemistry, the list goes on and on. In fact there are no fields of study where we DO know everything, unless you want to count religious studies where the proponents claim they do in fact know everything. The problem the religious have is their making excuses for why they are changing their beliefs to match science if they already knew everything...

          August 29, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • Vic

      [
      “Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, (why) do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms?”

      Charles Darwin
      ]

      I always had a basic idea about the Cambrian Explosion, that is animal life popping up at an accelerating rate out of nowhere, and I did not need to know the Biological Science behind it to believe that Evolution is unproven. Evolution is so improbable that it is biologically impossible! Mathematically, anything less probable than 10^49 (another standard is 10^150) IS IMPOSSIBLE! The "evolution of the first living cell" is less probable than 10^4,478,146! Need not mention the flawed "Fossil Record!"

      August 29, 2013 at 9:08 am |
      • chubby rain

        1. Every organism is a transitional form, including you and me.

        2. Meyer's (or Behe's or whoever you are quoting now) is ignorant of Biochemistry and their statistical "analysis" is completely wrong. You keep trotting out claims that have been refuted over and over again with no actual discussion.

        August 29, 2013 at 9:39 am |
        • Vic

          Well, what's below Darwin's statement are my own words regarding scientific researches I have read in the past.

          It baffles me that atheists on the CNN Belief Blogs constantly state mere opinions without scientific data!

          August 29, 2013 at 9:45 am |
      • ME II

        @Vic,
        Firstly, your quote is out of context. Darwin present questions that would be raised in order to address them in the following text. As Christian often state, keep reading.

        Second, your claims of evolution being impossible, or nearly impossible, are incorrect.

        Third, what opinions are presented as fact?

        August 29, 2013 at 10:11 am |
        • Vic

          Keep on reading as well!

          Charles Darwin himself doubted the Cambian Explosion more than anybody else, isn't that ironic?!

          Charles Darwin was troubled by his own theory more than all of his supporters, isn't that ironic?!

          Charles Darwin did his research in quest for the Origin of Species yet, he missed out on the main clue which is "the absence of the ancestral fossils prior to the emergence of the first forms of animal life," in other words, the Origin of life, isn't that ironic?!

          Charles Darwin never succumbed to Atheism even though he went form Christian to agnostic, according to the records, isn't that ironic?!

          August 29, 2013 at 10:37 am |
        • Jen

          Vic, your claim "Charles Darwin himself doubted the Cambian Explosion more than anybody else" is obviously not credible. It would require essentially everyone on earth to have been surveyed as to their degree of doubt on that subject, a virtually impossible survey to do, especially at that time. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely that others did not have a higher degree of doubt on the matter than Darwin, church leaders for example.

          Please retract your obviously false statement. It is yet another of the frequent falsehoods that you keep trying to prop up your beliefs in your Christian myths with.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:46 am |
        • ME II

          @Vic,
          1) the Theory of Evolution does not address the origin of life and was never intended to.
          2) How do you tell who "doubted" what more than someone else? I.e. your statements are opinion only.
          3) Darwin's work was 100+ years ago and while largely still accurate, there has been a huge amount of research and advancement, in the last century. Attacking Darwin is like attacking Salk on vacination.... oh wait that still works too.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:50 am |
        • AtheistSteve

          Vic
          Reread what you're posting. Darwin formed hiss theory on the origin of species not life. Evolution describes how species evolve to create new species. It isn't about the origin of life. That's an entirely separate field called abiogenesis. Furthermore Darwin had far less data to work with than we do today. 150 years of data gathering has refined the theory beyond what even Darwin could imagine. The fact is that even if we had zero fossils to work with today we would still be able to prove evolution correct from DNA evidence alone.
          And finally even if it was demonstrated that evolution was 100% wrong that still wouldn't be evidence for God. It would simply mean evolution was wrong. To show that God was the cause you still need to show evidence of God as the causal factor. Debunking the science doesn't get you there. That's why Intelligent Design failed in the Dover trial. There isn't any real science behind the ID movement to show it as a valid hypothesis..

          August 29, 2013 at 10:50 am |
        • Vic

          You don't seem to understand!

          For Evolution to be valid, it requires "the presence of the ancestral fossils prior to the emergence of the first forms of animal life," which are completely missing from Charles Darwin's research and from Evolutionary Biology to date! Meaning, life DID NOT evolve!

          The reason those fossils are missing is that the Origin of all life is Metaphysical!

          Regarding Abiogenesis, I addressed that before, and most Christians regard it the same as Evolution. At any rate, Life simply CAN NOT spring out of inanimate matter on its own. That has NOT been scientifically proven, to date, and regardless of creating amino acids (basic parts of proteins) in the lab, just like we have carbon as a basic of life; but to put (not to mention bring into existence) the ingredients (matter) together and animate (make alive) them is something else, in a nutshell!

          August 29, 2013 at 11:33 am |
        • Vic

          You don't seem to understand!

          For Evolution to be valid, it requires "the presence of the ancestral fossils prior to the emergence of the first forms of animal life," which are completely missing from Charles Darwin's research and from Evolutionary Biology to date! Meaning, life DID NOT evolve!

          The reason those fossils are missing is that the Origin of all life is Metaphysical!

          Regarding Abiogenesis, I addressed that before, and most Christians regard it the same as Evolution. At any rate, Life simply CAN NOT spring out of inanimate matter on its own. That has NOT been scientifically proven, to date, and regardless of creating amino acids (basic parts of proteins) in the lab, just like we have carbon as a basic of life; but to put (not to mention bring into existence) the ingredients (matter) together and animate (make alive) them is something else, in a nutshell!

          August 29, 2013 at 11:37 am |
        • Observer

          fred,

          Even if intelligent design could be proved, it still does not prove that God exists. The intelligent design could have come from Zeus or a committee of zombies or the Three Stooges or an infinite number of possible explanations.

          Believers would be better off spending their time trying to explain all the errors, contradictions, hypocrisy and nonsense in the Bible.

          August 29, 2013 at 11:43 am |
        • Observer

          Sorry, I meant to address that to Vic.

          August 29, 2013 at 11:46 am |
        • ME II

          @Vic,
          You don't seem to understand!

          The Theory of Evolution explains the diversification of life once life began, not the origin of life. Evolution does not depend how life began, but explains what happened once it did begin.

          "At any rate, Life simply CAN NOT spring out of inanimate matter on its own."

          That is speculation. Science has not discovered a way for life to begin from inanimate matter, correct, but to say that it "CAN NOT" happen is unfounded and immaterial to biological evolution.

          August 29, 2013 at 11:52 am |
  7. Lionly Lamb

    Let's change gears...

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7fa4gV06pg&w=640&h=360]

    August 28, 2013 at 8:02 pm |
    • pothead vs. clearhead

      Can you list 10 good reasons why weed is good for you.

      August 28, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
      • Lionly Lamb

        [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1QMcIhkdEU&w=640&h=360]

        August 28, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
        • Wren

          Do you really want to subject your body to this?

          Rapid heart rate
          Increased blood pressure
          Increased rate of breathing
          Red eyes
          Dry mouth
          Increased appet.ite, or "the munchies"
          Slowed reaction time

          These effects are reduced after three or four hours. However, marijuana hangs around in your system for as long as a month after smoking. The lingering effects mean you're impaired for several days to weeks after the high wears off.~WebMD

          Psychological Effects of Marijuana

          According to the National Inst.itute on Drug Abuse, the main effects of marijuana on mood vary and may include euphoria, calmness, anxiety, or paranoia. Getting high or "stoned" is the reason most pot smokers use marijuana.

          Other short-term psychological effects of pot include:
          Distorted sense of time
          Paranoia
          Magical or "random" thinking
          Short-term memory loss
          Anxiety and depression

          August 29, 2013 at 7:49 am |
        • Sara

          Or they may be taking one of the most promising tratments for Alzheimers:

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23831388

          So far we have had research on both sides, but there is significant evidence that in fuly developed brains (over age 25) there are few if any long term harms and quite possibly benefits against one of the most horrific diseases of our time.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:26 am |
      • mzh

        I think people are lost and they do not know what is the purpose of their life and there are no destination... its like you get a gps and want direction from NYC to CA and the gps has no network/signal, so obviously it will be in loop of lost... so people want to get high...

        I think every thing they human does which harms their body, was revealed to use in a good ways, but due to bad intention, human uses them incorrect ways...

        August 28, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
        • Jen

          Your oversimplification in your final statement is quite pathetic. Your generalization has so many exceptions that it isn't worth itself.

          August 29, 2013 at 10:51 am |
      • Doobs

        1. Pain relief

        2. Glaucoma

        3. Spasticity in multiple sclerosis

        4. Alzheimer's disease

        5. Breast cancer

        6. HIV/AIDS

        7. Brain cancer

        8. Opioid dependence

        9. Controlling ALS symptoms

        10. Crohn's Disease

        11. Diabetes

        Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis

        The details of clinical studies can be found on the the wiki site. I tried to copy it here, but it's quite long and detailed. It's late and I'm too tired to scour it to edit the "naughty" words out, but you can find the rest of the info there if you're interested.

        August 29, 2013 at 1:52 am |
        • Wren

          Cancer is not curable with weed . Stop spreading lies about the benefits of weed.

          August 29, 2013 at 7:44 am |
        • Richard Cranium

          wren
          You can say whatever you like, I have a very close friend fighting stage 4 cancer and is fighting for his life. We would already have lost him if it weren't for the helpful benefits of THC. Without it he suffers extreme random pain and cannot keep food down. With what he is going through, the weed is the last thing we are worried about.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:02 am |
        • Sara

          Wren, If you don't understand how many lives are saved or prolonged with this drug you have your head in the sand, and folks like you are killing people that are very important in many of our lives.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:28 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Wren
          It isn't about curing cancer, it is about pain management in cancer patients.
          Compared to the more commonly prescribed drugs (usually opiods), pot is superior in a number of respects.
          It doesn't negatively react with other drugs used in chemo, it stimulates appeti.te and reduces nausea, it is impossible to overdose, there are virtually no withdrawal symptoms when its time to stop, and best of all, its free if the patient is allowed to grow their own.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:41 am |
        • truthprevails1

          Wren: This shows the benefits of it. http://www.trueactivist.com/still-believe-nature-got-it-wrong-top-10-health-benefits-of-marijuana/
          If it is legalized, it will be regulated and thus taxed. No-one has ever died of an overdose from using marijuana but yet someone dies every 19 minutes due to od'ing on prescription meds.
          If you watch Sanjay Gupta's documentary Weed, there is a clear case of where it helped a sweet little girl who was suffering life threatening seizures.
          Tommy Chong used cannabis oil to cure his cancer. There are numerous other cases like this.
          Keeping it illegal will only encourage the black market to grow and will lead to the potential use of far more dangerous drugs such as cocaine and heroine. While the black market won't disappear, there will be less need for it.
          This article explains the benefits economically: http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
          We see two other things (alcohol and tobacco) that far more dangerous be legal but yet no-one whines about them, they see the word legal or illegal and stop looking for answers.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:43 am |
        • Maani

          Wren:

          No one is suggesting that pot CURES anything. It is a palliative, and can, in some cases, reverse effects of SOME conditions.

          In response to your earlier longer post, consider three facts:

          -Pot has never been the CAUSE of death of anyone, in all of recorded history, unless the pot was "tainted" with something else (e.g., PCP). Yet tobacco is responsible for over 500,000 deaths per year in the U.S. alone (cancer, emphysema, heart disease, etc.), and alcohol is responsible for over 350,000 deaths per year in the U.S. alone (cirrhosis, drunk driving, etc.).

          -The country of Jamaica, which has the highest per capita consumption of pot in the world, has one of the lowest lung cancer rates in the world. Yet China, with one of the lowest per capita consumption rates of pot, has among the highest rates of lung cancer. It is no coincidence that China also has one of the highest tobacco consumption rates in the world.

          -Over the past almost 30 years, studies have increasingly shown that pot use may be the best preventative of heart disease, and particularly high blood pressure and heart attacks. If this is true – and an increasing number of highly respected cardiologist agree – pot may end up saving hundreds of thousands of lives per year in the U.S. alone.

          The positive palliative uses of pot – particularly for glaucoma, appet.ite assistance for those with HIV and AIDS, and nausea and appet.ite control for cancer patients receiving chemo and/or radiation therapy – are, for all intents and purposes, medically and scientifically proven.

          These facts speak volumes more than all the paranoia and conjecture propagated by the government and major media.

          Peace.

          August 31, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Lionly Lamb

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOecYtNqV5Y&w=640&h=360]

      August 28, 2013 at 9:07 pm |
  8. mzh

    Mankind is in lost.... they do not know where to do and what to say and what to do... as I see people the human like my brothers and sisters from different mothers are having too much intellectualities and they do not have this ability to acknowledge that there is A Creator who is running the entire universe without any partners or associates...

    And I see people are boasting to one another and competing each other in increase of position, wealth and children and so on... trying hard to prove other is wrong rather to find the truth...

    August 28, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • Sara

      And yet across most of the developed word murder and other violent crime rates are at a 50-70 year low....and a fraction of the rate a few hundred years ago. How do you think things are going?

      August 28, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
      • Kate

        Sara, The Economist had a great article about the declining crime rate a few issues back. Perhaps you saw it. Regardless, great post.

        August 28, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
        • How things are going.

          "Over all, the nation’s violent crime rate ticked up by 1.2 percent in 2012 after years of steep declines. "

          http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/violent-crime-in-us-rises-for-first-time-since-2006.html?_r=0

          RoH-Oh!

          August 28, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
        • Sara

          Hi Kate, I'm not sure if I saw the economist story, but I've been reading most of the major releases. I also looked at data collected going back to about 1400 and the drop in the murder rate is stunning.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:31 am |
        • Sara

          @How, a 1.2% fluctuation is fairly trivial, and often no more than a change in accounting systems. NYC was down 25% just from last year, last I checked, and depending on how cities evaluate and count you see these small fluctuations nationally all the time. With an overall drop in the US of about 50% in the last 20 years, I'm not going to sweat a small annual fluctuation.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:38 am |
        • Kate

          Sara, this is the it http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/07/economist-explains-16

          August 29, 2013 at 11:08 am |
        • Sara

          Thanks, good article. I was a bit puzzled by the unwanted children sentence though – in part because it conflicts with the other data I've seen that supports the idea that birth control and abortion have helped, and in part because the use of the double colon structure is very confusing.

          August 29, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
      • How things are going.

        Since 2002, the United States has had the highest incarceration rate in the world.
        http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2012/us-incarceration.aspx

        August 28, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
        • bostontola

          Thats more a reflection of political policy than violent crime rate.

          August 28, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
        • mzh

          you open local news channel every day morning and you hear some got killed by teen agers, some one went to a school with fire arm, killing for this that...

          I think a good percentage of people are psychologically ill these days than in the past...

          August 28, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
        • Fallacy Spotting 101

          Post by 'mzh' is an instance of an Anecdotal Fallacy.

          http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

          August 29, 2013 at 12:04 am |
        • Sara

          mzh, if your assessment of the world is based on hyped up nightly news rather than genuine research that would go a long way toward explaining some of you more confused views.

          August 29, 2013 at 8:40 am |
        • Maani

          FS101/Sara: Before you put your feet any further down your throats than you already have (LOL), mzh may be more on point than you realize. For example, there have been a few recent studies that show that "narcissistic personality disorder" is very much on the rise, particularly among youth and young adults. And from a psychological standpoint, narcissism has been shown to be an underlying element in violence, particularly mass shootings like Aurora and Sandy Hook. As well, new studies are showing that there is, in fact, a direct correlation (and probable causation) between "fake" violence (video games, movies, etc.) and acts of real-life violence.

          So before you pooh-pooh (and unnecessarily demean) mzh, YOU might want to actually do some research.

          August 31, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
  9. bostontola

    I can understand why someone would believe in a god, I also understand why a young person would believe in a religion their parents asserted was true. Once a person grows up they can develop their own ideas, question what was taught, seek their own answers. I can't understand how any self thinking adult believes in the big religions.

    August 28, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
    • Try Again

      The "smaller" religions make more sense to you?

      August 28, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
      • bostontola

        Not knowing every religion, I can't comment on them. My silence about small religions shouldn't be interpreted as an endorsement though, that was your flawed inference.

        August 28, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
        • Sara

          Most people I know don't really believe the details of the religion they belong to. Surveys in the US find a huge proportion don't even believe in Hell or anything like it, and most Catholics, for instance, don't believe a good portion of the moral stuff. I have an aunt who's a nun and mixes her religion with traditions from other religions – she has pro-choice friends in the convent and isn't really sure that Jesus was more than a prophet. Same for most of the people I know in other religions. I know in the deep South or Texas people take this stuff seriously, but I'm not sure those folks are quite in your category of "self thinking".

          August 28, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
        • bostontola

          Sara,
          While I am talking about those kind of details, I am mostly talking about belief in the god of those religions. Since many of the other details are absurd, a thinking person should strongly question the "source".

          August 28, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • Maani

      Given that only slightly more than one-half of believers are "indoctrinated" by their parents, and that the remaining almost one-half "come to faith" in young adulthood, middle age and older age – from committed atheists to spiritual "seekers" and everthing else in between – I can only assume you have even greater disdain for the latter than you do for the former. LOL.

      August 30, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
  10. bostontola

    No one can be sure if there is a god, if it created the universe, etc. When the Jews created their story, man had no idea the extent of the universe and it shows. Just like all the other creation myths and gods of other religions, the god of the Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. are man made and based in factual error and an outdated moral code. That is obvious to anyone not indoctrinated in a particular religion (just think how you feel about every other religion).

    August 28, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • AE

      How do you know nobody can be sure God exists? You can really only be sure for yourself God doesn't exist. You don't get to decide that for everyone else. Right?

      What if God sends you a burning bush experience that you can't deny? Then what?

      August 28, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
      • Madtown

        You don't get to decide that for everyone else
        ----
        I think the only thing we know for certain, is that we don't know anything for certain.

        August 28, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
        • Lionly Lamb

          The uncertainty of being certain is everyone's last straw to be drawn... Atheists cannot be assured there is no God who gave rise to thousands of His sons and the religious cannot be assured their religious stance is the most righteous... I am bound to a rationalized relativism that the kingdom domains of God's sons and their wives are found within the realms of our bodies atomized cellular cosmologies which were established thru the evolutionary trails of Life's living upon an atomized celestially terrestrial planet we call our earth... Why then should I think otherwise or be led away from such a rationality..?

          August 28, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
      • My Dog is a jealous Dog

        There are about a million bushes burning right now in Yosemite – bushes burn – in fact they can spontaneously combust.

        August 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
        • bostontola

          and some are very fire resistant and in fact rely on fire to reproduce.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
      • bostontola

        AE,
        Because all human senses and knowledge is flawed and limited. Unless you think you are god, you shouldn't be sure. Obviously, all the people who believe in wrong religions are wrong, that is the majority of people.

        August 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
        • AE

          So the idea that there is no God can be flawed.

          And, if like in my experience and the experience in others, if you admit you are flawed and need help, you may find there is a power available that is not flawed that can help you.

          And depending on this power is a good thing. Better than depending on a flawed human being that you know for certain can only fail you.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
        • AE

          Access to this being is available to you. It doesn't matter if you have wasted the gifts given to you, this being will welcome you back in and help you.

          At least, according the the parable in the article written by this Christian author.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
        • bostontola

          AE,
          of course all people are flawed and limited. That's what the OP said, no one can be sure. What I am as sure as i can be of is that all religions thus far created by man are false.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
        • AE

          How can you be sure of that? Just because man's explanation of God is flawed, doesn't mean God's existence is flawed.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          AE, We only have man's explanation of god; if god exists it will be pre-Big Bang and so mankind can only speculate.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
        • bostontola

          AE,
          As I said, as sure as I can be. I don't know if there is a god, what I am as sure as I can be of is that all the man made religions are false. In other words, if there is a god, it's not one that people are worshiping today.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
        • AE

          I'm not limited by your understanding of "man's explanation of god". God is available to me today, right here and right now. No need to speculate.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
        • bostontola

          AE,
          And I'm right back at your senses and mind are flawed and limited (as are mine).

          August 28, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
        • AE

          bostontola
          Yes, we are both limited and flawed. I choose to trust that conscious contact I have made with that energy that is not limited or flawed, God. It works quite well for me. I only have to be true to myself.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
        • Madtown

          I have made with that energy that is not limited or flawed, God
          -----–
          How do you know it was God?

          August 28, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
        • bostontola

          AE,
          I would fight, kill, and die for your right to do so.

          August 28, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
        • AE

          I choose to call it God.

          August 28, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
        • AE

          Thanks, bostontola.

          I would fight for your right to follow what is true for you (unless it centers around harming others).

          August 28, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
        • Madtown

          AE
          I choose to call it God.
          ---–
          And that certainly is your right.

          August 28, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
        • skytag

          @AE: "So the idea that there is no God can be flawed."

          Still trying to rationalize not having to accept reality, I see.

          "And, if like in my experience and the experience in others, if you admit you are flawed and need help, you may find there is a power available that is not flawed that can help you."

          Sorry, but you are clearly an intellectually dishonest simpleton whose opinions shouldn't be taken seriously. It is intellectually dishonest of you to ignore the reality that billions of people claim to have had "experiences" that contradict what you believe. You're a weasel, a dishonest weasel who just wants excuses to avoid accepting the truth.

          "And depending on this power is a good thing. Better than depending on a flawed human being that you know for certain can only fail you."

          Rubbish. There's no evidence your God has ever done anything for anyone, you fool. It wasn't God who freed the people in Hitler's death camps, for example, it was a lot of "flawed human beings" with lots of tanks, artillery and air support. You are such a fool, chanting your pat sayings and completely ignoring reality.

          August 28, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
        • psst

          (skytag, i dont know how to tell you this: ok, it looks like you have a giant b0ner for ae. we can all see it. you should pull your shirt down or carry some books in front of it. im seriously embaresed for you!)

          August 28, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
        • bostontola

          psst, if you're going to ridicule someone for petty things you may want to spell correctly or risk embarrassment.

          August 28, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
        • skytag

          @psst: "skytag, i dont know how to tell you this"

          Next time you want to engage in such an immature personal attack resist the temptation to embarrass yourself and make your parents look bad in the process.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:40 am |
      • Roger that

        "What if God sends you a burning bush experience that you can't deny? Then what?"

        Science has an explanation. The term is schizophrenia.

        August 28, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
        • AE

          I'm not schizophrenic.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
        • AE

          Yes I am.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
        • bostontola

          AE,
          Were you there to see it?

          If I saw a supernatural miracle, I would strongly consider it.

          August 28, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
        • AE

          bostontola

          Yes. I experienced what I would call a spiritual awakening.

          One in which psychologist William James would classify as transient, ineffable, noetic and passive.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_experience

          August 28, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
        • ME II

          @AE,
          Well, "noetic" should be verifiable. Has anyone doc.umented gaining knowledge "that is normally hidden from human understanding?"

          August 28, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
        • skytag

          @AE: "I experienced what I would call a spiritual awakening."

          As always with you folks you refuse to acknowledge that what you experienced was entirely in your head, with no spiritual component at all. You're just another intellectually dishonest Christian who knows all the standard Christian talking points and sound bites but refuses to deal with the hard questions. I think that makes you a coward.

          August 28, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
      • skytag

        "What if God sends you a burning bush experience that you can't deny? Then what?"

        What if Santa lands his flying sleigh on your house and brings you presents this Christmas? Then what?

        August 28, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
      • skytag

        "How do you know nobody can be sure God exists?"

        It's relatively common for people to be sure of something and still be wrong, such as the billions of people in the world who are sure God exists and sure their understanding of him is more accurate that other people's.

        August 28, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • Lionly Lamb

      One need not have religious moralism and Godly civilities within any nation or country... As long as people believe in righteous moralism and lawful civilities being the cornerstone of any nation's nationalistic governances then who are the religious to find discontinuity within any nation that religions are found being within..?

      August 28, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
      • bostontola

        Good question Lionly.

        August 28, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • hharri

      How do you know?

      August 29, 2013 at 11:19 am |
  11. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    Lawrence of Arabia said – Ex nihilo, nihil fit

    LET's response – nihil ex nihilo... est aliquid

    August 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Lawrence of Arabia

      You only get nothing from nothing... If at any time absolutely nothing existed, then nothing would ever exist. That's axiomatic. I said that in response to a post that suggested that everything came from nothing. That's saying that the universe created itself... That's impossible, because it would have to exist before it existed in order to create itself.

      August 28, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
      • Johnny

        Energy cannot be created or destroyed, so it has always existed. So at best, god is energy.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Well, I don't think that Newton was trying to say anything about the existence of the universe by the laws of thermodynamics though.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
        • Johnny

          Prove that energy can be created, then we can discuss which of the thousands of possible gods might be responsible for creating energy.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
        • Leigh Anne

          And in something like Qigong...Energy is enough.

          August 28, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
      • Ken

        Lawrence of Arabia
        If you find the Big Bang hard to wrap your brain around, try the supernatural assumption. Science doesn't claim that there was ever "nothing" at any point, but religion does. So, how could a being create a universe out of nothing anyway? How could a being exist when there is "nothing" to exist in?

        Oy! God isn't even an explanation because it doesn't answer any of the questions. It's like saying "Just because"! Fine, if you want to be treated like a child, but some of us don't, and we're interested in finding the actual answers to such things.

        August 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
        • Niknak

          Very well put, Ken.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
        • Lionly Lamb

          Hi Ken...

          Just suppose figuratively that there are untold numbers of big bang universes once born and still being born within the vastness of spatially infinite nothingness... Now try to imagine that this nothingness is of God being God's spirit which gave birth to each and every big bang universe in times' past and present day and onto future times... What would such views as this suggest..? Would this nothingness which is separating all atoms as within our physical bodies be the holy spirit of God..?

          August 28, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
      • bostontola

        Your axiom is not based in fact. The characteristics of time are unknown at creation. It's also unknown whether the observable could or couldn't have sprung into existence. It's not that energy/mass can't be created or destroyed, it's that the sum must stay the same. If the total energy of the universe is balanced by the negative potential energy of all the gravity then the sum is zero and the equation balances. We shouldn't be assuming we know anything about this. You making up axioms to satisfy your belief in god doesn't make any of it true. Your people used to think the earth was the center of the universe.

        August 28, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
        • bostontola

          observable universe

          August 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
      • ME II

        "That's axiomatic."

        Is it? Perhaps *nothing* is unstable. We have no experience with *nothing*.

        August 28, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Science has come a long way since Newton... quantum mechanics proves that there is no such thing as 'nothing'

      August 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Reality

      o Think infinity and recycling with the Big Bang expansion followed by the shrinking reversal called the Gib Gnab and recycling back to the Big Bang repeating the process on and on forever. Human life and Earth are simply a minute part of this cha-otic, sto-cha-stic, expanding, shrinking process disappearing in five billion years with the burn out of the Sun and maybe returning in another five billion years with different life forms but still subject to the va-ga-ries of its local star.

      August 28, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
  12. Susan StoHelit

    Back to the article – talk about cherry picking!

    God is portrayed as the punisher, very rigid, break this law and you're doomed to hell for eternity – and you pick the one spot where it's an "all is forgiven" – and then also choose to believe the father is supposed to represent god?

    August 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • AE

      That is a parable that Jesus uses to say what God is like: a loving father. This was shocking to the followers of Jesus. They thought of God as a punisher.

      August 28, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
      • Ken

        AE
        Except a loving father wouldn't send, or even allow their independent children to suffer anything as horrible as Hell. Take Hell out of the equation and, while it's all still pretty silly, at least it isn't insulting and ghastly in it's injustice. Imagine a good father hunting down children who dared move out from under his roof? The father in the parable didn't set out to punish his wayward child, did he? So, how is the good father like God then?

        August 28, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
        • Johnny

          the god of the Bible is even worse than that. The story of Adam and Eve is basically god kicking a newborn out of the house to fend for themselves the first time they made a mistake. Oh yeah, and cursing all of humanity for said mistake.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
        • AE

          Ken
          Jesus told this story to pious religious leaders who believed people like prost.itues and tax collectors were exempt from God's grace. Jesus used this story to demonstrate how God's grace really is available to these people, too. The pious religious leaders are like the good son who stays at home and then gets insanely jealous. It turns out they need God's grace just as much as the prost.itutes and tax collectors.

          "The Parable of the Lost Coin" is a good story if you want to know about a father searching for a wayward child.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
        • AE

          Johhny

          To me the story of Adam and Eve is about 2 people who listen to and believe a voice other than God. And instead of just guilt, they feel shame. So much shame they try to hide. And that shame they feel has demonic origins – it is not from God.

          "Who told you that?", God asks when they tell them about their shame.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
        • Ken

          AE
          They may have listened to a voice, but that voice did not lie to them, did it? God, however, told them that they would die if they ate those fruit. Who do you trust more, a teller of truth, or a lier?

          August 28, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
        • AE

          I'm not going to listen to the voice that leads me to feel shame. That voice is demonic; against God's will.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        "This was shocking to the followers of Jesus. They thought of God as a punisher."

        This speaks to the fact that the God of the Hebrew scriptures was a violent jealous God while Christ came in with what amounts to a Buddhist message of turn the other cheek. How these are supposed to be the same unchanging God I will never know.

        August 28, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
  13. bostontola

    Less than a third of the population is Christian, your omnipotent god isn't doing a very good job saving human souls. If he loves us so much, why the terrible record?

    August 28, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Niknak

      And their numbers are shrinking yearly, mercifully.

      August 28, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
      • Zombie God

        Niknak

        And their numbers are shrinking yearly, mercifully.
        ------
        Amen! Will be interesting to see where kristianity is in 100 years.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
        • Niknak

          Hopefully forgotten like the countless mythologies that have come and gone over the millennium.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
      • Bill Deacon

        Can't have a winnowing without goats

        August 28, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
      • AE

        This guys wonders what planet you live on:

        http://amestrib.com/sections/opinion/columns/ra-abell-christianity-shrinking-or-growing.html

        It appears it is growing, not shrinking, in this man's opinion.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
      • AE

        "Is Christianity shrinking?

        No, although some people claim Christianity is shrinking it is actually gaining the most amount of adherents than any other religion. For example, on average between 2000-2005 the religion gained over 30 Million new adherents per year. This was 7 Million more than any other religion."

        Mercy!

        http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_Christianity_shrinking

        August 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
        • Dippy

          It's "million", not "Million".

          August 28, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
        • AE

          Should we contact the website and try to fix their error?

          August 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
        • Dippy

          Please do. And you needn't propagate the error.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
        • Ken

          Christianity roughly parallels the changing market for tobacco. Where North Americans and Europeans are dropping the nasty habit, it's being taken up in many third-world nations, and being passed onto the children of those people. Hardly something to be proud of.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
        • AE

          Christianity also parallels medical and technological advancements.

          And Ja.pan is an exception to the tobacco theory, right?

          August 28, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
        • Sara

          Overall, the proportion has still shrunk by 2% in the last century. Absolute numbers are meaningless with a growing global population; you need to compare percent growth for each religion based on its value at time 0.

          August 28, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
      • AE

        Another

        http://maxwellinsti * tute.byu.edu/publications/review/?reviewed_author&vol=19&num=2&id=661

        "...that Christianity is growing, not shrinking, and that Africa, Asia, and Latin America are now replacing Europe as the geographic center of world Christianity. "

        August 28, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
        • Johnny

          Yeah, and in Africa all the new Christians are working together to make being gay punishable with the death penalty.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
        • AE

          All of them are? Wow.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
        • Johnny

          Wow, is right. It is fairly disgusting. Of course they got the idea from American Christians.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
        • AE

          Ho.mophobia has manifested itself in many ways in human being's communities. It is really nothing unique to new Christians in Africa or American Christians. There are Christians in Africa and America that are not ho.mophobic, and who support equal rights for all people.

          They are definitely 100% against a death penalty for g.ays.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
        • Johnny

          One could argue that people who want to kill gays are better Christians than the ones who don't since the bible explicitly states to kill gay people.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
        • AE

          Are you talking about the Levite priest code that said that people who agree to not sleep with child prost.itutes, but turn around and do it anyway should be stoned to death?

          It wasn't really a universal call to kill gay people. It was for people who signed up to be a priest and promised to follow an agreed upon standard of life.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
        • Johnny

          Well yeah, that is the cop out answer. What it really boils down to though is that you don't believe in god enough to do what he asks of you.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
        • AE

          Where does Jesus, or anybody in the New Testament, suggest a death penalty for being gay?

          August 28, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
        • Doobs

          You mean like vaccinations for Jeebus?

          If my choice was mumbling some voodoo chants to a rich white man's deity and getting water near my hut, and/or getting food and medicine for my starving children, I'd go for the voodoo chants and cross my fingers behind my back.

          it's extortion, but as long as you can use it for statistics to "prove" your point, what do you care?

          August 28, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
  14. bostontola

    I wonder what happened to the souls of all the people born before Abraham, and the souls of the vast majority of humans on the planet for the 1800 years after Abraham that weren't Jewish and were never exposed to his god. I guess if god is omnipotent, he can retroactively save them, phew, that would have been very unfair otherwise. I'm glad this all makes sense.

    August 28, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      And where did Abraham learn how to worship in such a perfect way as to become a friend of God? I must assume he had all the rituals right because later God is very particular about how he wants things done or he'll kill you.

      August 28, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Lawrence of Arabia

      They were saved by believing the revelation that was given to them at that time. Revelation was progressive up until Christ, and in the case of Abraham, he believed that a redeemer was coming. (hint, read Hebrews 11)

      August 28, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
      • Niknak

        More nonsense that you cannot back up with any facts.
        Kinda like your god.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
        • mzh

          As Quran teaches that not a single nation were left alone but every one of the nations were blessed with a prophet/messenger to guide people of that nation, and those who believed in that guide (referring to the prophet/messenger) and the guidance (the message that the prophet was given, for example Moses was given Torah and David was given Psalm and so on) will be saved and rest will not be and The One Who created and sent The Quran knows best.

          We can go with few examples:
          1. People of Noah – who was sent to his people and Noah (pbuh) warned or invited his people for almost thousands years but very few of them believed in him and when the calamity fallen upon the nation with the flood, only those who believed on Noah, survived and this also makes today’s seven billion people are off-spring of those few who believed in Noah.

          2. People of Lot – Lot (pbuh) was sent to his people who were the first one to start the acts of h o m o and they were warned by Lot and when the calamity came after the warning, only 2 of his daughters believed in him (pbuh). If you study these people, you will find that they were saying they chose to be what they do but now in current time I hear lot of people saying that they were born to be what they are which is not true… no human is being born with any unhuman activities but eventually they chose to be what they are…

          3. Children of Israel – Jesus the son of Marry came to them so that they accept him as their way of life and that does not mean that they will be rejecting Moses, its like the example of windows 8 which is included whatever was there in win 95 or win 3.1

          4. Current days – the Quran is sent to the mankind and people are asked to follow it but not by force, and whoever follows it, follows Jesus the son of Marry, John, David, Moses, Aaron, Isaac, Ishmael, Abraham, Noah and all, because they were all Muslim and were sent from the same source in different time and also there is no distinction between them…

          And example can go on…

          Please keep searching… there is never ending in learning… you learn till the end of lifetime… we learn every day…

          August 28, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
        • G to the T

          MZH – funny the Quaran only speaks about the "known' peoples of the world. Who was the prophet for the Crow? Aztecs? Chin?

          August 28, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
        • mzh

          @ G to the T

          Quran mentions 26 prophets name and gives the story of their time... Quran also mentions that there were 100+ thousands nations and each one of them were given a prophet...

          Also Quran gives enough information about past, present and future in order for someone to be good in this life and most importantly hereafter if one believes in it...

          I am not sure what are you referring to by 'Crow? Aztecs? Chin?'....

          What you are saying is the human nature... human are never satistified with what we have... during the time of revelation of Quran, those Mekkans used to say to bring an angel so that they will believe in it... in reply prophet Muhammad (pbuh) says, i am only a conveyer and I convey what i receive...

          we are asking for something which are not known even those we do not know all what we have around us...

          Peace!!!

          August 28, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
        • Kate

          The Quran also teaches you to kill infidels, repeatedly and explicitly. So get off your backside, stop posting your cr@p, and do your job as a believer in your Allah myths, mzh. Stop spouting your lies. You've been found out.

          August 28, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
      • bostontola

        So the Jews weren't the chosen people?

        August 28, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          What do you mean by chosen? By being chosen, that doesn't imply that they automatically had a ticket to heaven. The Jews were to be the example people to the world to show what a right relationship with God was to look like. Unfortunately, they blew it. They wrapped themselves up in false gods and false worship... (See Ezekiel)

          August 28, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
        • mzh

          Jews were chosen among the Egyptians... only at that time the time of Moses they were called 'chosen people'...

          August 28, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
        • bostontola

          You people make it up as you go along. If rationalization were a sport, you'd be lock for gold at the Olympics.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          Who are "You people"?

          August 28, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "You People" I know, I mean really, how ra.cist can some people be! 😉

          August 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
        • bostontola

          You people is racist? Exactly which race is that? I am religionist, I am predisposed to consider a religious person delusional.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
        • AE

          –to show what a right relationship with God was to look like. -

          Yep! And I agree with the rest, but the relationship part just jumped out at me as being very important.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
        • Madtown

          The Jews were to be the example people to the world to show what a right relationship with God was to look like
          -----–
          So, one sub-set of God's equal human creations was to set an example by invading the lands of another sub-set of God's equal human creations, kill them and take their land? That's quite an example.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
        • AE

          bostontola
          –religious person delusional.–

          Do you have any training or education in regards to helping delusional people?

          August 28, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
        • bostontola

          AE,
          Religious belief is one of the toughest to crack, sorry.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
        • AE

          When I think of delusions, I think of a mental disorder.

          Like if you said a pilot is delusional, I wouldn't fly with him. But if you later had to clarity that you say he is delusional because he is Christian and you consider all Christians delusional, I might question your judgement. Especially if you were a passenger on the plane!

          Do you honestly believe that Christians are delusional? Like they shouldn't be allowed to fly planes, be doctors, educate, drive cars or serve in the military?

          August 28, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
        • bostontola

          AE,
          The vast majority of Christians are functioning delusionals. If you believe in any of the thousands of gods created by man and you rationalize it as truth then you are delusional. Since Christians are less than a thrid of the population, at least two thirds of the population are delusional. I think the Christians are too.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
        • Ken

          AE
          Christians may be no more delusional than those primitive tribes who see jetliners as giant eagles. We're all seeing the same things, only Christians want to believe that they mean something other than what it simply appears to be. It's the difference between accepting the universe as it reveals itself, or having superst itious beliefs about it.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
        • AE

          Got it. It is not like real delusional people, who don't really have a choice in the matter regarding delusions they believe.

          It is more like you don't agree with them and call them delusional. You don't honestly think they are delusional. More like superst.itious – like how a football fan thinks what shirt he wears will make a difference in a game. Really not a dangerous delusion – like, you don't fear for your safety from a pilot, because you know he has a firm grasp on logic and reason.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
        • G to the T

          ZERO evidence the Jews were in Egypt so yeah... good luck with that. ZERO evidence for just all of the book of Jacob... and a lot of archeologcial evidence against so....

          August 28, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
        • Johnny

          I personally think that a football fan who thinks wearing a shirt will help their team win is delusional.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
        • Johnny

          Young Earth Creationists shouldn't be allowed to educate anyone.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
        • bostontola

          If I thought a pilot would rely on prayer to save a disable plane instead of using his/her brain, I wouldn't want them as my pilot. I don't think you have a choice in your belief in god. You think you do, but how do you know that? Free will is at least partly an illusion.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          AE,
          Yes, more like superstitions. Thinking that what shirt he wears will make a difference in a game is not a dangerous delusion – what is dangerous is when they insist what shirts we all wear. Because you know it's not based upon logic and reason, you wouldn't want i ttaught in schools or the basis of society and laws.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
        • Ken

          AE
          Oh, but Christianity can be a dangerous delusion. Think of all the people who were horribly killed because Christians had a superst.ition that they were witches, or Muslims, or because they just happened to be Christians who believed something so different that the Christians in power labelled them "heretic".

          Not exactly as harmless as having a favorite shirt, but neither is the supersti.tion that gay people are going to bring God's wrath down upon America. Boy, has that one ever ruined a great many lives. So has the superst.ition that all abortions are the murder of actual babies, and the one where some tyrant alien tortures people just for not believing in him.

          Sure, there's a few nice things that Christianity does, but it also has a collection of some appalling superst.itions that do real harm to people.

          August 29, 2013 at 12:27 am |
      • Niknak

        No Larry, only you and the people who believe the way you do have the magic ticket to heaven.

        Hope it is all that you hoped it to be. Enjoy..

        But until then, stop trying to force us to go along with you. We are not interested in your Stone Age fairy tale.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Then why do atheists keep inviting responses by insulting God? If you don't want us talking about God, then go somewhere else. This is the BELIEF blog after all.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
        • Niknak

          Tell me Larry, how am I insulting god?
          By questioning it's existence?

          Why don't you admit what your issue with us atheists really is. We call you out publicly about your claim of god's existence and you are powerless to prove us wrong.

          Really too bad for you we don't have those blasphemy laws any longer so you could silence us forever like back in the good old days of your cult.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          The existence of God is axiomatic. Matter and Energy cannot exist without a cause, but you cannot assume an infinite series of causes in order to support the idea of an eternal universe, because that's a paradox as it does not explain how the causal chain got started. Furthermore, nothing can be self-created, therefore the first cause that initiated this universe and our existence we call God. So, you want proof? Go pluck a blade of grass.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
        • Niknak

          About the same response one of your ancestors had, but he used solar eclipses as his "proof" of god.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Lawrence,

          Your presuppositional tripe is begging the question. Not to mention a huge leap from "cause" to "your personal god".

          August 28, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Niknak, nah, because this one is actually a BIBLICAL response. (Read Romans 1:18-32)

          August 28, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Blessed, well, if it isn't God, then what else could the first cause be? By logical reasoning, that first cause must be outside of time, force, action, space, and matter, since it was the cause of all of these things.
          Nothing can be self-created
          The universe is not eternal
          What else could there be as a first cause?

          August 28, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
        • Niknak

          News flash Larry, the vast majority of the world does not believe in your bible, not just us atheists.
          If it were true, we would all believe in it.
          It is not, but go ahead and waste time reading it, all the while taking full advantage of the amenities that science has provided to make your life so easy.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Niknak, of course you're free to believe whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that those beliefs are automatically right. Postmodernism thinking doesn't work in the real world. Belief must allign with observable truth in order to be viable.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
        • Niknak

          Prey tell Larry, what was the first cause of your god?

          And why does it "logically" follow that since because we have not figured out where the universe originated from that is must be god?

          Why is it so hard for you believers to just say "I don't know?"

          You don't know, neither do the rest of us.
          But rest assured, one day we will, and you believers will just say, "Well, what caused that? Don't know, it's god!"

          Hang on to that myth Larry, with both hands!

          August 28, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          L of A,
          More pretzel logic. You presume that there is a first cause and further presume that your god is that first cause. The existence of the universe is axiomatic, the rest of your belief is wishful thinking. Just out of interest what created your god? Using your terminology why can't the universe be the first cause? If you think a god can just exist, why not a universe? That cuts out the middleman.
          Certainly the only way a god could be responsible for the universe is pre-Big Bang and so that god could not be the god described by religions.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
        • Johnny

          If belief must align with observable reality, then you can go ahead an throw out the bible.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
        • Niknak

          Yes Larry, I am free to believe what I choose, as long as that belief does not infringe on others.

          Why don't you believers do the same and stop trying to inject your belief into our secular nation.
          But you won't.

          You believers have to try to put you god into our government, our courts, or schools, our medicine and our bedrooms.
          The day you believer stop that is the day we atheists will stop coming here.

          But you won't ever stop until you get the rest of us to go out and howl at the moon with you.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          =>Blessed, well, if it isn't God, then what else could the first cause be?

          Ignorance of the answer is not a reason to believe it was a god, and certainly not your god. We could go down the rabbit hole and argue whether your presuppositional tripe is worthy of being called reasonable, (hint: It's not). But it would still get us no closer to the actual answer. How many religious claims have been ever been proven true, not just asserted? None.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
        • Madtown

          Lawrence of Arabia
          you're free to believe whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that those beliefs are automatically right
          ----–
          Hello Pot, I'd like to introduce you to Kettle.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
        • Ken

          Lawrence of Arabia
          I know that the English sentence "God is outside of matter, energy, time and the universe." is grammatically correct, but so is "The four-sided triangle was north of the North Pole.", but that doesn't mean that either actually makes any kind of logical sense, now does it?

          August 28, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
        • Doobs

          @ Larry of Arrabbiata,

          This is the BELIEF blog after all.

          Yes, it is the Belief Blog. NOT the Christian Belief Blog, the Islamic Belief Blog, the Hindu Belief Blog, the Theist Belief Blog or the Atheist Belief Blog.

          Everyone has beliefs. Mine just don't include a belief in any deities. I'll come here when I want, say what I want and stay as long as I want . If you don't like it, tough tities.

          August 28, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
        • Doobs

          or "tities, lol @ myself.

          August 28, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
        • Doobs

          Oh crap. You know what I mean.

          August 28, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • mzh

      Islam has the clear answer for your question...

      Will be back shortly...

      August 28, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
      • Niknak

        Hey mzh, I am still alive and blaspheming your prophet and Allah.
        You better to work quick on killing me like your stupid Koran commands you to if you want all those vir gins you were promised.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
        • mzh

          man... where does all these incorrect message comes from?

          Nik, you have been in wrong place if you are learning about Islam OR i would also say that you have been taught incorrectly and that is for sure... please trust me...

          August 28, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
        • Niknak

          Sorry bro, built I have spent enough time in Muslim countries to know that what I have said would get me killed, instantly.

          Like Kate posted on the previous page, all those quotes from the Koran that command you to kill infidels.

          You better get to some killing, because the infidels are numerous.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
        • Johnny

          mzh, you would be a lot more credible if you would just admit the fact that the Koran does order Muslims to kill non believers. Anyone can read it for themselves and see that it does. By not admitting that it just makes you look like a liar, and leaves no reason to believe anything else you say about anything.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          "Nik, you have been in wrong place if you are learning about Islam OR i would also say that you have been taught incorrectly and that is for sure... please trust me..." Haji, you must be kidding right?

          August 28, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          I would trust you only as long as you remain in my maximum effective range

          August 28, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
        • mzh

          Nik and all:

          Perhaps you were with people who are Muslim by name only... I feel sorry and responsible for that too that you have been taught incorrectly...

          I have been trying to post something how quran was being revealed but every time it is getting filtered for some reasons...

          I hope you will learn the beauty of Islam soon...

          Let me ask you guys something... why do you think Americans are embracing Islam? by force? hah of course not...

          August 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
        • Niknak

          I was not aware that Americans are embracing Islam.
          And could care less.
          It is just another unfounded hypothesis, like xtianity et al.

          Look man, I am only insulting you and your religion to make the point that there is stuff in your holy book that is gargabe, but that many of it's followers will do because it's in there.

          I don't believe in god(s) mzh. Sorry, but your book has no meaning to me.
          I can live a very good moral life without having a big brother looking over my shoulder.
          Sorry you believers can't break free of the myth and do the same.

          August 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
        • mzh

          Hey Nik,

          Don't worry... I am not insulted in any ways...

          Islam teaches to be good and patient with the one who is missing it...

          And also when you insult the entire faith or the Quran – you are not insulting me...

          I would like to give you an example here:

          It was in the year of around 572, they call if the year of elphant... way before Islam... just for your information Islam came meaning the first revelation came down in 610...

          The Christian King of Abysinia was so angry because Arabs at that time used to make a trip to Mecca and this king wanted all arabs to come to the church he is planning to build so that his kingship will grow and he will get more business...

          So then he planned to attach with all his solders and horses and elephand to distroy the kaba (the box in mecca you see in present day where Muslims go for hajj), so in the year of 570 or 572 he came close to Mekka to distroy Kaba, and he called the leader at that time and the leader of the Mekkans at that time came to see him and he was asking him since this is not a battle so do not distroy our horses and other stuffs... but the king was surprises that he is talking about all things but he is not talking about the kaba that he came to distroy... so the king was cureous and asked him that question... then in reply the leader of Mekkans says... i am worried about the one i take care and kaba is the house of God and God will take care of it and its none of my business... wow the king was so surprise what God he is talking about because he was a Christian and he believed in Jesus as God and so on...

          So when he ordered his elephant to start distroying the kaba and the elephant did not move a single inch moreover the elephants attached his own solders and the birds came out of no where with 3 stones and that killed those who were planning to distroy the kaba...

          So what you are saying, does not make me feel insulted or anything else... its between you and who created you...

          Peace and i appreciate your honest posting on mine...

          August 28, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
        • Kate

          mzh, enough of your dishonest exhortations of "peace" already. You've been caught out in your lies, and here are some exceprts of how violent the Quran really demands that you be:

          It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

          Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

          Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

          ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

          But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

          Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

          O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

          Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

          When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

          Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

          mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

          August 28, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        Islam – the religion of peace (and suicide vests)

        August 28, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
      • Reality

        Obviously, mzh's Koran is missing a few pages. Let us correct that situation:

        http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/005.asp et al

        o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
        o
        "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

        "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

        "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

        "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

        "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

        "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

        "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

        "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

        "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

        "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

        "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

        "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

        "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

        "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

        August 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
        • Kate

          Thanks, Reality. Keep up the good work.

          August 28, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • Ken

      There's a myth called Jesus' Harrowing of Hell where it's imagined that he managed to convert Abraham, Moses and other key figures from the Old Testament into accepting him as God's son.

      Just another invented means of overcoming troublesome theological conclusions.

      August 28, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
      • G to the T

        Wasn't that in "the Apocolypse of Peter" that didn't make it into the bible?

        August 28, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • mzh

      As Quran teaches that not a single nation were left alone but every one of the nations were blessed with a prophet/messenger to guide people of that nation, and those who believed in that guide (referring to the prophet/messenger) and the guidance (the message that the prophet was given, for example Moses was given Torah and David was given Psalm and so on) will be saved and rest will not be and The One Who created and sent The Quran knows best.

      We can go with few examples:
      1. People of Noah – who was sent to his people and Noah (pbuh) warned or invited his people for almost thousands years but very few of them believed in him and when the calamity fallen upon the nation with the flood, only those who believed on Noah, survived and this also makes today’s seven billion people are off-spring of those few who believed in Noah.

      2. People of Lot – Lot (pbuh) was sent to his people who were the first one to start the acts of H O M O and they were warned by Lot and when the calamity came after the warning, only 2 of his daughters believed in him (pbuh). If you study these people, you will find that they were saying they chose to be what they do but now in current time I hear lot of people saying that they were born to be what they are which is not true… no human is being born with any unhuman activities but eventually they chose to be what they are…

      3. Children of Israel – Jesus the son of Marry came to them so that they accept him as their way of life and that does not mean that they will be rejecting Moses, its like the example of windows 8 which is included whatever was there in win 95 or win 3.1

      4. Current days – the Quran is sent to the mankind and people are asked to follow it but not by force, and whoever follows it, follows Jesus the son of Marry, John, David, Moses, Aaron, Isaac, Ishmael, Abraham, Noah and all, because they were all Muslim and were sent from the same source in different time and also there is no distinction between them…

      And example can go on…

      Please keep searching… there is never ending in learning… you learn till the end of lifetime… we learn every day…

      August 28, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
      • G to the T

        Sooo... he must have done a pretty poor job as 99% of the globe was polytheist for most of human history...

        So who was the prophet sent for the Crow nation? The Aztecs? Chin? Australian aboriginals? Seems odd that a divinely inspired story specifically speaking to how everyone got a prophet would only mention the peoples already known to the author?

        August 28, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
        • mzh

          It is human who makes their own choices by using the 'Free Will'... the guide and the guidance is there.... it is up to individual whether to follow or to reject... even it gives very clear warning but unfortunately those human did not believe in their prophets and we still see people around us worships idols... and no one is also forced to worship idols... we do it on our own choice...

          Now the nations that are being mentioned goes prior to Jesus the son of Marry time and prior to that... for which we do not have any evidence other than what it is mentioned in the Quran...

          America was discovered on 16th century and prior to that Australlia is an island and British used to use this islan to send those who are prisoned and so on... population was not as many as we see now if you go back 2 thousands plus years...

          Peace!!!

          August 28, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
        • Kate

          mzh, enough of your dishonest exhortations of "peace" already. You've been caught out in your lies, and here are some exceprts of how violent the Quran really demands that you be:

          It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

          Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

          Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

          ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

          But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

          Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

          O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

          Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

          When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

          Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

          mzh, you are a deceptive con artist. Be gone!

          August 28, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
  15. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    "We have discovered that all signs suggest a universe that could and plausibly did arise from a deeper nothing–involving that absence of space itself–and which may one day return to nothing via processes that may not only be comprehensible but also processes that do not require any external control or direction. In this sense, science...does not make it impossible to believe in God, but rather makes it possible to not believe in God. Without science, everything is a miracle. With science, there remains the possibility that nothing is. Religious belief in this case becomes less and less necessary, and also less and less relevant. ... I believe that if we are to be intellectually honest, we must make an informed choice, informed by fact, not by revelation." – Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss

    August 28, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • Lawrence of Arabia

      Ex nihilo, nihil fit

      August 28, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        nihil ex nihilo ... est aliquid

        August 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • JimK57

      And the purpose of this post is...

      August 28, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
  16. Leigh Anne

    Should Christianity be boring...no. Is it? Heck yes!!!!!

    ANYTHING based on mere theology is WAY boring!!!!!!

    Get away from the books and do something useful!!! Heal the sick, feed the poor, and chew out the hypocritical religious leaders like Jesus did. WAY more interesting than mere theories about religion.

    August 28, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Niknak

      Or read a science book, Leigh Anne Rimes.

      August 28, 2013 at 11:53 am |
      • Joshua

        What is the last science book you read?

        August 28, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          I recently picked up "This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession".
          Fascinating stuff!
          As a talentless amateur musician, it's good to know why I get so much fulfillment out of making my poor neighbour's ears bleed as I struggle along.

          I used to feel bad for my wife until she bought me a Theremin and proved that she's just a glutton for punishment.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
        • Niknak

          A Brief History of Everything by Bill Brison.
          Excellent and fantastically fascinating.
          He just released a new book on English life and architecture spanning the previous 500 years. Looks really good too.
          Before that I read The God Particle, about the search for the Higgs Boson. Again, fascinating.

          Unlike your book, which is mind numbingly boring, which just happens to be the topic of this article we are all commenting on.

          A propos, n'est pas?

          August 28, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
        • Niknak

          Hey Doc, besides the Theremin, what do you attempt to play?
          I took piano years ago, but recently tried the bass and now acoustic guitar.
          Really dig them both, although I am sticking more to the guitar as the bass one needs someone else to play along with.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
        • Joshua

          If Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc had never written science books or been awarded Noble Prizes I think you might have a good case for stating that they need to read science books. I've seen actual Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. do more than just read a science book, NikNak! They've written them! And been awarded prizes from their peers, most of which are atheists! It is cute you read pop science!

          August 28, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          I play guitar (acoustic and electric), bass, sing poorly and fiddle with a drum machine.
          If you google me, you'll be led to my old MySpace page that has a few songs on it, displaying my "skills" (or lack thereof).
          Should you bother to visit, please note that I have far less metal in my face now than when the profile photo was taken. 😉

          August 28, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
        • Colin

          Joshua, that argument is lame. All accomplished scientists had star signs too. Does that make astrology credible? Of course not. Christainity, Judaism, astrology, Islam and any other supernatural belief collapses in a heap at the first application of scientific discipline or reason. Once Christians realize their fantasy world cannot hold up to the penetrating light of reason they claimtheir beliefs are "beyond understanding."

          A retreat to mysticism is the first refuge of a cornered fool .

          August 28, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
        • Niknak

          So because a believer wrote a science book or was awarded a science prize, that proves god's existence?

          They got the science award because they could back up their findings with.....drum role please....FACTS!!

          Something they cannot do with their belief in god.

          Can't you understand that?

          You have nothing to back up your claim of god's existence except your belief.

          Sorry, but that is not sufficient enough for us to believe in, or award you with a prize.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
        • Joshua

          >>>>Colin
          I'm responding to NikNak's insult at Leigh Anne that she should "read a science book". The fact that you overlook his obviously faulty views and jump to a conclusion that ignores the fact that he, like you, have not really contributed anything to science. You are just 2 little fan boys hoping to catch some crumbs for other men and women's work and run to the internet and pretend like you are smart.

          A retreat to self-righteousness is the first refuge of a truly ignorant fool.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
        • Niknak

          Right on Doc.
          Hope I can get to your level soon.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          =>I've seen actual Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. do more than just read a science book, NikNak! They've written them! And been awarded prizes from their peers, most of which are atheists! It is cute you read pop science!

          Joshua,

          When a religious scientist is able to demonstrate how something in the world works, using their religion, not science....I will be impressed. Until then, their religion is useless. The fact that Isaac Newton believed alchemy worked does not matter what so ever as to his scientific acheivements.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
        • Niknak

          So Josh, unless one has contributed to science one cannot be an atheist?
          I am understanding you correctly?

          It is cute Josh, when a child has an imaginary friend.
          But it is really creepy when an adult has one.

          And if my reading is pop, then wasting time "studying" the bible is what?
          Other than a waste of time.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
        • Joshua

          >>>>>>>>>>NikNak
          For all you know Leigh Anne actually knows more about science than you, she could be one of those Christians that teaches physics and actually knows a lot more about science than you. And that telling her to "read a science book" is an example of an ignorant phrase posted by a guy who reads a few pop science books and thinks he is some kind of expert.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
        • Joshua

          >>>>>>Niknak
          >>So Josh, unless one has contributed to science one cannot be an atheist?
          >>I am understanding you correctly?
          No. You don't seem to be understanding me. And I haven't been talking about belief in God. But you keep bringing up that subject for some reason. If you don't believe in God, you are an atheist. I don't understand why you bring that up. It has nothing to do with science. Just like you.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
        • Niknak

          Like all believers Josh, you have sidestepped everything I asked.
          Typical.

          Look bro, you want to waste your time "studying" the bible, and having an imaginary big brother to get you thru life, fine, it is your time to waste.
          But stop trying to pass your claim of god's existence off as fact, when you have zero facts to back it up.

          And while you are at it, keep your belief to yourself and stop trying to force us to go along with it.
          We have no interest in going with you to howl at the moon.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
        • Joshua

          I asked him what science book he last read, and he starts attacking The Bible! He directed his statement at Leigh Anne as a definite insult, as if to suggest that a religious person rejects science. That assumption is so ridiculous and ignorant. And look at all the other people that overlook that stupid statement and start arguing with me about the role religious people play in science. And ain't nobody getting paid any money for their knowledge on science. You all need to stop reading Christian articles and go comment on science articles. Except you probably can't understand what they are talking about there!

          August 28, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
        • Niknak

          Maybe you have reading issues Josh, but I was actually agreeing with her that people should do something other then congregate and be bored by religion.
          She suggested helping people which I am all for.
          I suggested enlightening yourself as to our natural world.

          But of course, you believers are spring loaded to everything being "Christian bashing."

          Must su ck to go thru like always feeling persecuted.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
        • Joshua

          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Niknak
          BS. You were insulting her, like you try to do to others. If you actually start believing your lies, you are headed for big trouble.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Joshua,

          If your point is 'religious people can be very intelligent' I don't think you will get an argument from most here.

          But I also don't think that is what niknak was implying.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
        • Akira

          Joshua, I think you need to read Leigh Anne's post again. She doesn't present as overtly religious, and Niknak wasn't insulting her; he was adding to her suggestions.

          August 28, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
        • Niknak

          What trouble would that be Joshua Tree?
          Is your imaginary friend going to put me in the fiery pit?

          August 28, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Currently reading a few books... but this one is probably appropriate to your question: A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather Than Nothing by Lawrence M. Krauss, Richard Dawkins

      August 28, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
  17. mzh

    I would like to share a parable from the Quran today to my dear friends from different faiths:

    There are the examples in the Quran given to mankind to learn a lesson and do not follow their footsteps so that you can be saved on that day. Actually the Quran is a guidance to live this earthly life, it can be used as we use laws of the land which gives us the instructions like when to turn on red in a traffic light, the same way the Quran gives instructions how to live your earthly life and be success in hereafter.

    Here is one example that I like to share with you all and it is about Pharaoh, we all go Egypt to visit these historical places and we see the body of Pharaoh but most of the human does not learn what was his mistake and why he is a sign for the mankind till now and will be till the end:

    11:96 – And We did certainly send Moses with Our signs and a clear authority

    11:97 – Unto Pharaoh and his chiefs: but they followed the command of Pharaoh and the command of Pharaoh was not right (guide).

    11:98 – He will precede his people on the Day of Resurrection and lead them into the Fire; and wretched is the place to which they are led.

    11:99 – And they were followed in this [world] with a curse and on the Day of Resurrection. And wretched is the gift which is given.

    11:100 – That is from the news of the cities, which We relate to you; of them, some are [still] standing and some are [as] a harvest [mowed down].

    11:101 – And We did not wrong them, but they wronged themselves. And they were not availed at all by their gods which they invoked other than Allah when there came the command of your Lord. And they did not increase them in other than ruin.

    11:102 – And thus is the seizure of your Lord when He seizes the cities while they are committing wrong. Indeed, His seizure is painful and severe.

    11:103 – Indeed in that is a sign for those who fear the punishment of the Hereafter. That is a Day for which the people will be collected, and that is a Day [which will be] witnessed.

    11:104 – Nor shall We delay it but for a term appointed.

    11:105 – The Day it comes no soul will speak except by His permission. And among them will be the wretched and the prosperous.

    11:108 – And as for those who were [destined to be] prosperous, they will be in Paradise, abiding therein as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except what your Lord should will – a bestowal uninterrupted.

    10:83 – But no one believed Moses, except [some] youths among his people, for fear of Pharaoh and his establishment that they would persecute them. And indeed, Pharaoh was haughty within the land, and indeed, he was of the transgressors

    10:90 – And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers pursued them in tyranny and enmity until, when drowning overtook him, he said, "I believe that there is no deity except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of the Muslims."

    10:91 – (It was said to him): Now? And you had disobeyed [Him] before and were of the corrupters?

    10:92 – "This day shall We save you in the body, that you may be a sign to those who come after you! but verily, many among the mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"

    Pharaoh at the end believed in the Lord of Moses and testified that he is a Muslim but he was told that its too late for his repent to be accepted, and then his body will be kept as a sign for the mankind but how many of us do we learn when we see his body is still preserved in Egypt??? And this is a miracle of Quran that states to the mankind.

    People say that the Quran is the word of Muhammad, I say to them how would Mohammad (pbuh) know these stories if these were not coming from his (pbuh) Lord The Almighty?

    I let people decide what to accept and what to reject… as there is no compulsion in religion…

    Peace!!!

    August 28, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • LAX

      We may want to look up what a parable means. Hint: The story of Moses is not a parable.

      August 28, 2013 at 11:52 am |
      • ME II

        Wouldn't that depend on whether it actually happened?

        August 28, 2013 at 11:56 am |
      • mzh

        I meant here as 'a story from the Quran...'

        August 28, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Niknak

      To long, too boring......

      August 28, 2013 at 11:52 am |
      • Dippy

        Too, not to.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Kate

      mzh, convenient of you to not quote some of the demands in the Quran for murder and other evil to "infidels" who happen to not buy into your Allah myth or follow some other god myth:

      It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

      Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

      Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

      Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
      (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

      ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

      But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

      O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

      Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

      O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

      Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

      When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

      Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

      mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

      August 28, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Kate

      mzh, convenient of you to not quote some of the violent demands made of you in the Quran to do murder and other evil to "infidels" who happen to not buy into your Allah myth or who follow some other god myth:

      It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

      Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

      Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

      Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
      (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

      ..... martyrs.... Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

      But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

      O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

      Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme – 8:39

      O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

      Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. – 9:2-3

      When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

      Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. – 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

      mzh, you are a lying, deceptive con artist. Be gone!

      August 28, 2013 at 11:57 am |
      • mzh

        Let me ask you a simple question:

        If Islam commands to kill infidals then to whom this message be conveyed?

        August 28, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
        • Niknak

          People like mzh.
          You are commanded by your fairy tale book to hunt down and kill anyone you cannot convert to Islam.
          Or anyone who slanders your prophet or Allah.

          So here, you can start with me.
          Mohammed was a piece of sheet child molester, and Allah takes it up the azz from goats.

          You must now find me and kill me, or you are a bad Muslim and are not going to heaven or get any virg in wives.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I like Islam (religion of peace)... right before they shoot at you or set off their IED vests they yell 'Allah Ak'bar!' Makes it much easier to know who to empty your clip into...

      August 28, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      Is it just me or does mzh display the same sort of self-agrandizing humilty with all the "my dear friends " and "I let people decide what to accept " or "there is no compulsion" that some of the extremeist of his religion often use as a ruse right before they trigger their suicide bomb vest?

      It just seems at times the Muslims placate westerners into a false sense of security by saying all faiths are welcome, but once you study their faith you realize that was just a lie to get you in the door, or rather a misleading statement for they really meant "All faiths are welcome to come in and Allah will show you the truth and you will become like us, and if you don't then you are an infidel who will die horribly..." Of course, this tactic is not unknown to the Christian faiths either and was likely just Muslims emulating their sister faith, albeit a few hundred years behind.

      August 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
  18. Dyslexic doG

    If you Christians think that your god is powerful enough to create the universe, don't you think he'd have a more foolproof way of getting his exact message across to future generations than this endlessly translated, edited, confused, modified, twisted, corrupted book of stories that is changed by religious power brokers to suit each generation?

    Wouldn't god's word be carved on the moon, unchangeable and for all to see? Wouldn't it be spoken unchanged by a species of animal? Wouldn't it be written microscopically on every stone or every tree? Wouldn't there be some space age material that had god's voice recorded, uncorrupted over the centuries and there for everyone to hear.

    Wouldn't there be parts of God's word that reflect computers or artificial intelligence or DNA or modern medicine or future medicine or electricity or space travel to other parts of this amazing universe he created? Wouldn't there be talk of gender and race equality? Wouldn't there be talk of Asia and Australia and the Americas and Europe and Africa?

    Instead the bible is limited to horses and carts and herbs and grain and swords and shields and misogyny and racism and slavery all set in the deserts of the middle east. The Bible is so obviously a product of bronze age man, you must be in denial to even argue that it is the word of god. There may or may not be a god or gods, but this book of bronze age voodoo and oppression has nothing to do with him, her or them.

    And stop it with this "not the word of god but words inspired by god" cop out. That just means it was written by greedy, evil men who got their way by claiming that god told them to do something. That's a self serving scam that should be scorned, especially by anyone claiming to love an omnipotent god. That scam is an abomination and an insult to your god ... as is the bible!

    August 28, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • Vic

      That's a valid premise, in general (and w/o some of your projections,) we all have doubts!

      The way I look at it is, just as I believe in God – and that He knows all of our doubts and questions, and He chooses to be this way, – I believe in His Wisdom. In other words, I believe God knows what He is doing.

      August 28, 2013 at 11:19 am |
      • Doc Vestibule

        So your approach is "don't question, just believe"?
        Ignore logical inconsistencies, blatant falsehoods, and glaring contradictions.
        Don't seek to further your understanding of the world around you – after all, seeking knowledge is the Original Sin and trying to achieve something as a collective group with just get God stamping His feet like a petulant child, a la Tower of Babel.

        August 28, 2013 at 11:23 am |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          Sounds about right...

          August 28, 2013 at 11:32 am |
        • Vic

          Not exactly!

          By logic and reason, which employs "critical thinking," you do not squander the major part (belief in God) because of minor unknowns! In other words, the exception is not the rule!

          August 28, 2013 at 11:37 am |
        • Niknak

          That's about how it is for believers.
          Don't question and be a good sheep and folllow what they say forever.

          Intelligent alien life could come here, show us how everything in the universe works and solve all our problems, but if they also told us that in fact their has never been any god, the believers like Vic will still believe.

          The religious scammers love you Vic.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:45 am |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          "Name someone else it happened to. Extra points if you can show they have any followers today." Conan

          August 28, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Vic
          What logic and reason supports belief in a god. Gods are used to explain unknowns and there are fewer unknowns as our knowledge improves and increases. In other words, the gaps do not provide evidence of a god.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      You mean more powerful than nailing himself to a tree? How clear can a guy be?

      August 28, 2013 at 11:27 am |
      • ME II

        Getting oneself nailed to a cross in Ancient Rome apparently wasn't that difficult nor unusual.

        August 28, 2013 at 11:30 am |
        • Bill Deacon

          Name someone else it happened to. Extra points if you can show they have any followers today.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:44 am |
        • ME II

          @Bill Deacon,
          "Name someone else it happened to. Extra points if you can show they have any followers today."

          Jehohanan, the son of Hagakol (yes, I got it off wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion)

          Number of followers does not equate to truth. Or, are you saying that Zeus existed in 100 BCE, but not now?

          August 28, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          Haga Kol's crucifixion occurred in AD75. You know why we call it AD right?

          August 28, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
        • ME II

          @Bill Deacon,
          What's your point? Rome was still around in 75 CE, wasn't it?

          The same non-biblical evidence that Jesus was crucified supports others does it not? Josephus, Tacitus, etc.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Bill, Jesus could have done a number of things that would have been far more convincing to future generations. It is another failure of your god.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
        • Chandler

          You asked for someone else it happened to, Deacon. He answered. Stop your snarky patronization. Although that is typical of you when some actually does answer one of your "posturing" questions.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        Driving your talking donkey too fast in a no-girls-allowed school zone will get you pinned to a tree in 1st century Jerusalem...

        August 28, 2013 at 11:36 am |
      • Niknak

        The day jeebus got nailed there were two others nailed up too. It's in your book of magic spells.
        One was a thief if I recall correctly, and the other was a "revolutionary."
        I think the their was named Dismis.

        Here is some reference from your Stone Age fairy tale book in case you want to see it.
        Luke 24: 39-42

        August 28, 2013 at 11:50 am |
        • Bill Deacon

          Dismas was the "good thief" who repented and joined Christ in paradise. Gestas was the "bad thief" who reviled Christ because he didn't save him from his corporal crucifixion. The same dialogue is played out here day after day.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
        • midwest rail

          The same dialogue ? Utter nonsense.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
        • Niknak

          Only in your mind Billy Bob.

          What is actually played out here is open minded questioning people asking you believers to provide some kind of proof of your claim that god(s) exist.

          And all you believers can do is say the proof is in faith itself.

          Sorry, that is not good enough for us.

          Until you can come up with some proof, your god does not exist, except in your imagination.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
        • Colin

          Actually Bill Deacon, it is not so simple. Mark clearly states that the two theives who were executed with Jesus mocked and insulted him on the cross. Luke changes Mark in this respect and has one of the thieves believing in Jesus and defending him and the other mocking him. Matthew, on the other hand, sticks with Mark’s original account.

          So Billy boy, either two Gospels are wrong or you are? Which is it?

          It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant christians are of their own book.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
        • Joshua

          I wish I had a nickel for every time an atheist arrogantly assumed he/she knows more about the Bible. I'd be rich!

          August 28, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
        • Niknak

          Studies have confirmed that in fact, atheist do more more about the babble, and more about other religions then you believers know.

          Face it bro, you have bought into a great big scam, and you are the Mark.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
        • G to the T

          @ Joseph – then prove them wrong rather than making vapid assertions.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Colin
          Obviously the difference between the gospels is deliberate.
          Becuase there are no contradictions in the Bible, you simply don't understand the context of the passages in question.
          One of them is metaphorical but to find out which version is the literal one, you must first open your heart to Jesus.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
        • Coward

          Colin doesn't have a soul. He has no spiritual understanding. He thinks he is a rational and logical creature, but that is just imaginary. In truth he is very irrational and illogical. But he tries very hard to portray himself different from this. Poor guy gets so tired and cranky trying to live this way. But that is what he wants.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
      • Madtown

        You mean more powerful than nailing himself to a tree? How clear can a guy be?
        -----–
        This isn't nearly as "clear" an example as the one's DD gives(God's word on the moon, etc). If "God's word" was written on the moon, all of humanity would be able to see it and learn of it. There are still humans today who don't know that Jesus was nailed to a tree, 2000 years after the fact. Not a very efficient distribution of a supposed divine message intended for all.

        August 28, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
      • Doobs

        Bill Deacon is nothing more than the Roman Catholic version of Austin, running from one addiction to another.

        I wonder how many rosaries a day it takes to stave off the shakes.

        August 28, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
        • sam stone

          doobs: i know austin's addiction was alcohol. what was billy's?

          neither of them can argue a point well, but that is likely why they find comfort around others like them

          August 28, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
        • Doobs

          @ sam stone

          He didn't say, only that he converted to the RCC at 39 yo after going through a few other religions, no religion, and a 12 step program.

          It makes sense – the RCC is all about ritual, dogma and about fifty billion pages of minutia that can keep an addict occupied for a long time. That's why he has to work so hard at making excuses for it. The day he can't rationalize it is likely the day his sobriety ends.

          August 29, 2013 at 2:34 am |
      • Zombie God

        Bill Deacon

        You mean more powerful than nailing himself to a tree? How clear can a guy be?
        -------
        I think you mean delusional. There was nothing unique about some delusional dude that found his death at the end of some rusty nails and wood.

        August 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Joshua

      Have you read the Bible? I have spent years studying it as a skeptic and then believer and a lot of what you say is mentioned in my view. I don't feel everything is mentioned sure, no doubt. I would question why would need to know everything up front? In my view the Bible was written in such a way that study is required. If all the answers were presented up front then like a child we would get bored. Have you ever taught a child a concept? Do you give pieces they can handle or the whole pie up front and overwhelm them?

      August 28, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
      • Niknak

        Why would anyone waste their time reading the bible?
        Or any other book of imaginary Superbeings. Unless it is a comic book, where the reader has no pretense that it is just fiction and for fun.

        Life is precious and brief, so sad to know people like you waste it "studying" a book of pure fiction.

        August 28, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        "If all the answers were presented up front then like a child we would get bored." Yes, because isn't it all about keeping us entertained like a baby instead of treating us like adults and letting us know in person or in some undeniable way that he exists. Or is the game of doubt not only fun for him to watch but he thinks it provides some form of interesting entertainment for us?

        August 28, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
        • Niknak

          Maybe it is kinda like parents who try to keep the hoax of Santa going for as long as they can with their kids.

          August 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
      • Ken

        Joshua
        If the whole "pie" is yet to be revealed, how do you know that what's left isn't awful? If you go with the idea that God is holding back because you aren't prepared to understand things who's to say that he isn't interested in harvesting your soul for some kind of fuel? This idea only works if you convince yourself that you know this being completely enough to trust it, when most Christians would also readily admit that God is completely beyond human understanding. Tell me, can humans know God's mind, or not?

        August 28, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • lol?? Pithiest, YES!!

      lol?? Pithiest, YES!!
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      Original sin brought on the curse. You sin because you are a dirtbag dustball. Got nuthin' to do with you being a copycat...

      August 30, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
  19. Vic

    ♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰

    August 28, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • Ken

      Nice claim, but can you prove it?

      August 28, 2013 at 10:36 am |
      • hharri

        Honey, it was recorded in the n.t. sorry. It is fact. Don't like it? Too bad

        August 29, 2013 at 7:00 am |
    • In Santa we trust

      Another day, same old delusion.

      August 28, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      Jesus was just David Koresh 2000 years earlier. A sociopathic conman with a good story and lots of charisma. All this foolishness, without a shred of proof, has sprung up from there.

      utter, mind numbing nonsense.

      August 28, 2013 at 10:43 am |
      • hharri

        Dyslexie, the resurrected jesus was observed by many. Frightened cowards were transformed and hundreds of millions throughout history testify to his precious life changing power. Sorry

        August 29, 2013 at 7:05 am |
    • AE

      Hallelujah!

      August 28, 2013 at 10:45 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      For the low price of $29.99, you can become a Scottish Laird by buying a tract of land at Dunan Castle.
      I got one of the kit's for my landscaper last Christmas, so technically, Jesus is Laird.

      August 28, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • tallulah13

      Jack is Lord.

      August 28, 2013 at 10:55 am |
      • Akira

        Winner!

        August 28, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Madtown

      Vic is unconvincing.

      August 28, 2013 at 11:16 am |
      • Vic

        Oh..I don't worry about that, I just need to believe. God takes care of everything. If you open your heart and mind, He does the convincing.

        August 28, 2013 at 11:23 am |
        • AE

          I, too, have experienced this to be true.

          August 28, 2013 at 11:29 am |
        • Madtown

          You'd be hard-pressed to find someone more open-minded than me.

          August 28, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
        • Ken

          Vic
          How can you claim that you are not deluded if you are unable to convince anyone else?

          August 28, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Calvert is Lord

      August 28, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.