By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
Lake Forest, California (CNN) - Rick and Kay Warren stood outside their son's home, sobbing in each other's arms.
They had talked Matthew, 27, off the ledge many times. But not this time.
A nod from a police officer who inspected Matthew's house confirmed their worst fears.
“I just hit the ground,” Kay Warren said.
On April 5, Matthew Warren killed himself with a gun after a lifelong battle with mental illness.
“The day that I had feared might happen one day, since he had been born, and the day that I had prayed would never happen … happened,” Rick Warren told CNN's Piers Morgan in an exclusive interview.
For the first time since Matthew Warren's death on April 5, Rick and Kay Warren are speaking out about his troubled life, how the tragedy changed their faith and their new mission to draw attention to mental illness.
The full interview aired Tuesday night on CNN’s "Piers Morgan Live" at 9 pm ET.
In 1980, Rick and Kay Warren founded Saddleback Church, now one of the largest in America, in Orange County, California. Twelve years later, Warren published "The Purpose Driven Life," a runaway best-seller that catapulted the pastor into stardom.
At the same time, though, their son Matthew Warren struggled with borderline personality disorder and deep depression for much of his life, the Warrens told CNN.
He had a loving family and access to mental health care, but not even that could spare him, they said.
Matthew was a young man with a "tender heart and tortured mind," Rick Warren said.
“If love could have kept my child alive, he'd be alive today, because he was incredibly loved,” he added.
The Warrens also spoke during the interview about how their son's death has affected their Christian faith.
GALLERY: Rick Warren over the years
“I never questioned my faith in God; I questioned God’s plan,” Rick Warren said. “God isn’t to blame for my son’s death. My son took his life. It was his choice.”
Slightly more than half of Americans – 53% – think that churches should do more to prevent suicide in America, according to a new poll by LifeWay Research, a Christian company based in Nashville.
Evangelicals and other Americans appear to disagree, however, about using religion to overcome mental illness, according to the LifeWay poll, which surveyed some 1,000 Americans and was released on Monday.
Nearly half of evangelicals, 48%, say that people with serious mental illnesses like depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia can be cured by Bible study and prayer alone. Sixty percent of Americans overall disagree.
The Warrens want to spread the word that even though their story had a tragic ending, “there’s hope,” Kay Warren said during the interview with CNN.
“It’s so important that people know, no matter how desperate their despair, there is hope, and not to give up.”
If it wasn't for this guys STUPID BELIEFS IN MYTHOLOGY......
His son might not have felt that he had to kill himself for being gay, as he was born.
This CLOWN had to force his idiotic_mythology down the kids throat, fill him with guilt, and then tell him that "prayer is the answer". He probably played a HUGE role in the kids demise. Very sad.
People commit suicide outside of circmstances this man faced.
What do you believe in Athiest Forever? What determines right and wrong for you?
My own moral values. I don't need an imaginary sky fairy to tell me what to believe, how to treat people, or anything else for that matter. I have FREE WILL. You should try it. You might find it shocking, but you can completely dismiss this garbage as the mythology that it is, and STILL not be running around raping, killing, robbing, and pillaging the countryside. Believe it or not, some people are actually capable of CONTROLLING THEMSELVES! What a shock huh?
Free Will is the greatest Gift of God.
I have the free will to follow God and freedom to not. Freedom to choose my se.xua.lity, and freedom to choose what morality that I want to.
I choose to follow the morality and the truth of the New Testament Bible because it leads to the most freedom for me and those around me.
Religion was invented for, and still used to control the masses. You certainly don't get "freedom" from being bound to a mythology where you are forced to "be good" or face the threat of eternal fire and torture. What a load of hooey.
Seems like your hate is controlling you, Atheist.
Truth is, that religion fosters mental illness. Believing in invisible sky fairies in invisible cloud cities, invisible devils in invisible fire pits, and actually holding conversations with these invisible creatures from a book of mythology, doesn't exactly set someone up well for dealing with reality.
The rabid religious views in this family no doubt contributed to any guilt this young man was being tortured with. I'm sure he was told to pray to the imaginary sky spirit, and of course, it didn't help. He was probably put through ridiculous religious ceremonies, and preached too by this clown.
For anyone with severe depression and mental illness, this sort of religious nonsense most certainly didn't help, and probably worsened the problem.
There is no forever in atheism. When you die, that is it. All your theories and pseudo logic dies with you. Everything you think is right and wrong, ceases to be right and wrong. Because it all just existed in your head.
Talk about "projecting"! All in your mind? You mean like taking literally, a book of mythology?
The Bible is a book of History. It is the history of the people of God.
From the time of Abraham until the beginning of the church it is a real history book about how God worked through some very imperfect people to bring about the church.
History is it? You mean like the earth being created in a week? The great "flood" that covered the earth (though there is not enough H2O on earth to do that...).
And as a "history book" how did it conveniently "miss" the existence of dinosaurs, who walked the earth far longer than we have? Could it be because that they MEN who wrote the bible didn't know dinosaurs existed yet?
My faith is built on the reality of Jesus Christ and the church in the book of Acts.
From the time of Abraham until the early church has been proven by archaeology to be history.
Ask any serious biblical scholar and they will say that the time before Abraham is pre-history.
There is as much proof that Abraham existed as there is for the tooth fairy. Barely more for jesus. Less still for any god that has been created in the minds of man since day one. You can believe; you can speak of it; you can spin tales upon tales about it. But that does not make it true.
If God is nothing what compels you to say an asinine comment like the "invisible sky fairy" - ? The fact you let something that does not exist compel you to make up silly words to describe the "nothing" atheists speak of has always been a good laugh for me. Your silly drivel amuses me, thank you.
LOL! Oh how logic fails the defenders of superst.ition!
Is he invisible? Does he live in "heaven above us"? Of course we both know that you believe that don't we?
If you don't like the term fairy (as in fairy tale – what the bible is full of), the would you be OK with invisible sky spirit? Because that is what you believe in no? Think about it for a moment, you talk to invisible spirits that live in an invisible world that nobody can see. How do you seriously rationalize such nonsense?
Infra red and ultraviolet light can't be seen by the human eye. Doesn't mean they aren't there. 300 years ago, people laughed at van Leeuwenhoek when he told them about the creatures he in his microscope because they refused to believe in something they didn't see. 500 years ago, Galileo was punished for the things he saw and understood about the solar system but which others did not. There are theoretical subatomic particles that no one has seen but physicists have faith that they are there. It seems above ridiculous to me to declare that something isn't there just because you can't see it.
"A pretentious, showy life is an empty life; a plain and simple life is a full life." – Rick Warren
What an empty life he must have then.
You clearly know little about this man's life, then.
There are a lot of showy megapastors in the world. Rick Warren a'int one of them.
And a life of religion is a life of living LIES. Actually taking as literal word, a book of mythology, and then basing your life on that book is simply absurd. 500 years from now people will look back at people like this guy the way we now look back on the ancients who believed in gods for the sun, sea, crops, thunder, lightning, and everything else that wasn't understood at the time.
"If you prayed as much as you complain and quarrel, you'd have a lot less to argue about and much more peace of mind." – Rick Warren
Yep, all this praying did nothing to save the most important people of all, his family.
All of the praying that happens every day does NOT ONE THING to help the starving, the sick, the dying, and the tortured that span our globe. Religion DOES however, exist as the root of most wars, killing, starvation, torture, etc.
Disagree. Prayer and communion with God is one of the most calming things I know.
"The only really happy people are those who have learned how to serve." – Rick Warren
He served the invisible sky creature, but his son was allowed to suffer and die a horrible death anyway. All that praying did JACK huh?
Correct, Atheist FOREVER. In this case, prayer did exactly what it always does: Nothing.
Albert Schweitzer said it first. But what does he know. Right?
I didn't know that Warren was a thief, too. Huh. Did he "borrow" quotations from other famous people, Bill?
I dunno. I'm not especially a supporter but have you ever said something somebody else said? I don't recall seeing RW claim he originated the statement. I think it was erroneously attributed to him
I'm fond of this one:
"Our culture divides people into two classes: civilized men, a title bestowed on the persons who do the classifying; and others, who have only the human form, who may perish or go to the dogs for all the 'civilized men' care."
"You weren't put on earth to be remembered. You were put here to prepare for eternity." – Rick Warren
What a sad way to go through life...thinking that nothing you do here matters because it's all about an imaginary place that you go when you die!
... not what he meant & I'm pretty sure you're aware of that. This life on earth is simply not to be seen as "it". This is only a beginning & thus being remembered ultimately has no value.
An increasing number of people REFUSE to live their lives based on books of mythology, and this gives some degree of hope.
Maybe a small portion of those labeled "haters" (sounds like something a middle school girl would say) aren't against Warren's theology, methods, or even his success–they're just sick of their local pastors pushing Warren down their throats. Sick of campaigns where you shell out $ for books and workbooks. Sick of their own pastors refusing to teach, and instead showing a DVD. Sick of being shepherded by remote/outsource/a man who will never meet them personally.
"God intentionally allows you to go through painful experiences to equip you for ministry to others." – Rick Warren
Great, so Rick believes that the painful experience of losing his son can equip him to denounce gay people better than ever!
Since you don't really speak to anything the man shared but simply sling "nu uh's" - I'm guessing you're just mad at him?
I can belIeve in God always as I have witnessed several personal miracles – like life itself- but I can't believe what I am reading here. Trust me there is A God. If you don't want to believe my personal miracles, think about this. Who but God could prophesy events thousands of years in advance – read the bible and the history books on some that have already happened and are still unfolding. Who could have protected the Word for thousands of years for our benefit? I am alive – twice – because of His hand. There is no other explanation. And what if you nonbelievers are wrong? Wouldn't want to be in your shoes when you take your last breath. By the way, He's the one who gave you that breath through His Divine Power.
i have reported you to the moderator as someone who is abusing the right to comment on news stories by preaching your revolting B.S.
it's one thing to respectfully disagree with an opinion/belief, it's another thing to infringe upon one's freedom of speech.
Free speech isn't protected on a private website.
Really, wow we are scared, did you run a concentration camp as well ?
similar to what those of the athiest religion are preaching. Interesting that you are so biased against one group and cannot look objectively at the situation. We all have faith of one sort or another. I have faith that there is a God that created us with a free will, you have faith that there is no God (at least that is what i gather from your comments). Can you not accept that you are preaching a religion as well, because you are. if you don't like what a christian has to say, don't listen, don't read it. But it seems that you are passionate about your religion of atheism. sounds alot like a trait you are complaining about in Christians. Seem to be an aweful lot of zealous atheists on this comment thread.
Yes. We all have faith in something.
Did you also report the posters who rant on about God being a sky fairy, or the Bible being a book of mythology?
I challenge you to prove even just one of the several unfounded claims you made above. If you cannot, being an honest christian, you should admit that you are full of sh!t and your beliefs are founded on same.
I totally agree.
Nostradamus foretold events. Is he god?
There are thousands of gods, hundreds of creation stories. Yours is a retelling of previous cultures stories and beliefs. Your religion is recycled.
Nothing you mention is evidence of any gods.
Life, where does it come from? We do not know. There is an infinite number of possibilities, your hypothesis (that god did it) is one of those infinite possibilities, with an extremely low probability.
God is real. Thanks for sharing.
And your evidence is?
You are my evidence. Thanks "Santa".
80% of the time I am on here, you show up asking for evidence of God. You seem to spend a lot of time thinking about this God that does not exist. To me, that is evidence you are looking for God, but don't know the way to knowing him.
You god was real. I asked for evidence. Your logic is failing you. The fact that I ask for evidence of your claims is no indication of what I think about. I certainly do not think about god nor am I seeking one as I have seen no evidence of a god. Still waiting for your evidence.
God is real.
If you want evidence, ask God for evidence. He has given me all the evidence I need. Seek humility and ask Him to reveal Himself to you in a way you can understand. Do this every day.
But doesn't sound like you are looking for God. It sounds like you are looking for an idol. That may be your problem with not finding the evidence.
Your pretzel logic is failing you. I'm not seeking anything apart from the evidence that you have to definitively state that there is a god. You say it all the time but can never provide evidence – you only try to turn it around that I must be seeking something so that I conform to your comfort zone of needing some supernatural being as a crutch.
An atheist who posts a lot on the CNN Belief Blog under the name "In Santa we trust" does not have enough evidence for him to believe in God.
Yet God still exists. Despite his denial. I'm fine with that.
I'm not really sure what you mean by that but if you have a problem with me posting on the CNN belief blog either stop posting that god is real or provide some evidence to support your assertion.
I don't care if you post here. You seem to like to ask me for evidence for God. When I try to explain why I honestly believe you start ridiculing me.
But you aren't a credible source for anything, to me. Just a guy who posts on the Belief Blog who doesn't like Christians. That's about all you've revealed about yourself to me.
The epitome of religious indoctrination – "just trust me, everything I say is true even though I can't prove it to you....just trust me!"
Smug, condescending, ignorant, indignant...you hit them all. Trust you? Well, ok. If you say so. Why don't you, instead, trust me that there is no evidence for a god. Any god.
And why don't you cite, with specificity, any of the prophesies?
Look up Pascal's wager. Holding a belief for fear of retribution or celestial favors is not belief; it is sucking up. No better than a used car salesman (to quote Hitchens)/ "C'mon. Believe. What do you have to lose?"
Finally, to quote Richard Dawkins, what if you're wrong?
I am wrong.
God is right.
Have you found any evidence to share yet?
Do you honestly want to know God?
AE, I might want to know god, if he exists, and I might not. It depends on the sort of god it is. Do you have any proof that a particular god exists? If you do, I will honestly evaluate it to see if it is likely that he exists. After I determine whether or not his existence is likely, I will explain to you why I do (or do not) want to "know" that god.
Of course, when anyone asks you tough questions, you ignore them and change the subject to the ad populum fallacy or something like that, but what the hey. You got any proof? Let's see it, if you do.
"change the subject to the ad populum fallacy"
Hey, yesterday you accused me of that. But I explained that was not my reasoning. You used your words, not my words, to explain why you imagined that is what I was doing.
Why do you honestly want to know God?
If you have evidence I'd want to evaluate it. But no more "you need to believe to believe".
God wants your heart. The reason why you want to know Him is important. If you are seeking God so you can have something to prove to people you may be headed in the wrong direction.
Yes, quote Richard Dawkins who bravely ran away from debating Dr. Craig, to the laughter and scorn of theists, and to the shame of atheists everywhere.
Dawkins did not have to debate Craig. Hitchens annihilated that charlatan a few years earlier. No need to pile on.
You can't actually win a debate with a theist because when backed into a corner they can just claim that god can do anything he wants, which if god were real would be true I guess, but it makes for a lame debate.
The bible makes sweeping, general predictions that are bound to come true here and there over thousands of years. Nothing ever specific. Nothing ever that accurate.
By the way, when will that three headed see monster be coming at us? How about the dead rising from the grave? And how about that "earth was created in a week deal"? Are you feeling that one too? And did you ever wonder how this brilliant book completely missed the dinosaurs? Could it be because the book was written by people that didn't know dinosaurs existed?
.....just an FYI, there ARE references to Leviathan and Dinosaurs in the bible.
Book of Job.
According the the bible, people were created in the first week, yet we KNOW that dinosaurs lived long before we were here, and lived here for Millions of years without us. The bible would indicate that animals only lived without people for several days.
So no, dinosaurs were never mentioned. Nice try though.
OK. Here are just a few prophesies, If you want more, just let me know. *Israel would suffer enslavement in Egypt, but be freed and established in their homeland. * Nineveh,capitol city of the Assyrian Empire would be captured and destroyed. * The ancient Egyptians would lose their national status and never again rule over other nations. * The nation of Judah would be defeated and exiled to Babylon. * The Jews exiled in Babylon would be allowed to return to Jerusalem after 70 yrs. * The Babylon Empire would fall to the Medes. Have more if you would like. Oh, and most important, the Messiah was also prophesied in the O.T. Also, the bible verses where you can look them up for yourself And "please" do not make fun about my personal life. I am 76 years and have lived (possibly) a lot more than you, so show some respect!
Great reply. Thanks old man! (I am in my 30's and I respect my smart elders ;) )
Quote by Rick Warren:
“Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.”
Oh no, don't fear or hate them. Just make sure they know over and over how unacceptable their llifestylel is in God's eyes. That won't harm a thing.
Some behaviors are self destructive. It is wrong and unloving to tell somebody who is being self destructive that their behavior is self destructive.
I don't hate or fear anybody. When I was a young man in high school I was the only Christian in my class of 50 students. I was a jock (hockey, track, ect...) who went onto play NCA College Hockey (worst player on a very good team).
I was the only guy who was nice to loan g.ay guy in class. I was mocked for it, I was made fun for it, and he was safe around me. I did not condone his "ga.yne.ss" but with me he was safe. When I was around he did not get beat up by the other jocks.
I was accused of being a "g.ay lover" because I was kind to him (I wished in hind sight I could say I was his friend, but I was still to much an immature teenager to do that).
Now that mocking did not stick because all the other jocks knew I also would not date any of the girls in high school because I did not want the se.xual temptations and I refused to view po.rn or drink alcohol or do drugs (mainly roids like many of the others were doing). I was a Jesus Freak.
I am still the same now as I was then, but society now says I am "afraid or hate" gay people because I don't condone the life choice.
In high school (20 years ago) I was accused of being the "ga.y lover" now I am "hom.oph.obic."
If anything I am the gentler and kinder than in high school because I care even less what society thinks.
According to a CBC online article in 2012 gay men make up 4% of society yet they make up 40% of STD's. The same gay man lives on average 8 years less than the average het.eros.ex.ual male.
Married males who are married to only one woman for life live on average 4 years longer than the average man.
God's ways protect us from ourselves and from our animalistic nature.
And hom.ose.xua.lity is just one of many small examples.
Great, your response is to come up with ways being gay is supposedly harmful. It's all bullshit.
You have a cussing problem. When you cuss, nobody can have a conversation with you.
What about the logic that some choices are more harmful than other choices?
Some choices have greater negative consistences than other choices. That is simply a fact that you are ignoring.
The guidelines for living in the New Testament increase quality of life. Not following those guidelines decreases your quality of life. That is one logical reason why Christians should not choose a gay lifestyle.
Nearly half of evangelicals, 48%, say that people with serious mental illnesses like depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia can be cured by Bible study and prayer alone.
who is going to clear these morons of their mental illness?
I say we "hospitalize" them. Are ya with me?
Moron like you can be healed too. Jesus loves sinners and morons like you. You are so blinded by being a moron that you refused to believe that God and only God can heal any kind of sickness..
"You are so blinded by being a moron that you refused to believe that God and only God can heal any kind of sickness.."
Have you ever taken medicine of any kind, even aspirin? Ever put a bandage on a cut? Have you been vaccinated for anything?
Why would you do that if your god and only your god cures illness? Oh, ye of little faith!
Spewing insults like a true christard.
Healing the sickness he created? Causing suffering only to heal it but not in all cases? Why not prevent the sickness in the first place? Is he a sado-masochist? Does he thrive on suffering, anguish and sadness?
Sorry, not a god worthy of my or anyone's praise.
It's really sad how some of you people are so hateful toward a man of faith who has just tragically lost his son.
Where is your soul? You people are really cruel and hateful.
He didn't lose his son. His church drove him to suicide. Stick to the facts.
Right. The son was treated with state of the art medicine and some of the world's greatest psychiatrist's available, but the Church's influence was greater than that.
Keeping mentally ill patients on a medical protocol is notoriously difficult. People tend to think of taking medication to regulate mental illness as akin to taking an antibiotic to cure an infection. In reality, it's more like a diabetic taking insulin to regulate a wonky pancreas. Sometimes you can lessen or go off the medication, but often you can't.
A father who preaches about a powerful, vengeful overlord and praying illness away to a vulnerable son, especially a father who knows how to manipulate millions of dollars from gullible people, could very well have greater influence than a mere psychiatrist.
You said, "It's really sad how some of you people are so hateful toward a man of faith who has just tragically lost his son."
If he wanted to grieve in peace, he should have stayed out of the spotlight. He is a divisive man that uses his position as a "man of faith" and his delusion to cause untold harm on society. He deserves every bit of criticism he gets.
You said, "Where is your soul?"
What soul are you talking about? The Kia Soul?
You said, "You people are really cruel and hateful."
Pointing out how absurd religious beliefs are isn't hate.
My family has been through exactly the same thing as Pastor Warren's family. We lived in fear for a long time that my sister would take her life, and our fears came to pass. My sister took her life when she was 49 years old. We were not regular church goers, although my sister did turn to religion a few times to help her with her illness. From my considerable experience with bipolar disorder, I can tell you that it has nothing to do with religion or the lack of religion. Reasons 1 through 1000 are mental illness, mental illness, mental illness, mental illness, mental illness, .... It strikes people in all walks of life. Its torture for the person with bipolar and his/her family. Everyone wants to find someone to blame, but blaming others is a function of the mental illness itself, and it only makes the problem worse. We need to stop trying to find an outside force to blame for bipolar disorder and start treating it as a serious illness.
Rick Warren son was struggling with being Gay. That was never going to be something that was acceptable by any means with the Warren Family. All of us here in Southern California knew what was going on with his son. There was allot of talk and hush, hush going on. Too bad he just didn't let his son be who he was instead of shaming him and the ultimate price cost him his life in the end. And they say " I"m A Christian ". That's exactly what is wrong with people today. Religion is used for sacrifice and bloodshed. No matter what or who ! The Muslims are the same way too.
No, he was struggling with having an azzhat prlck of a father who bullied him into kiIIng himself.
It's the Church's fault that Rick's son did what he did and no imaginary man in the sky can change that fact.
FACT: no atheist has ever committed suicide.
Francis Bacon for one, brilliant post modern artist, vocal atheist offed himself...
My father was an atheist and killed himself. So your point is invalid.
I believe your little jest may not be understood by certain folks that lack a certain level of critical thinking and a minimal sense of humour.
How's that prayer thing working for ya Ricky?
No matter what you think of his beliefs, to insult a man over the loss of his son is beyond crude and petty and small and sad.
I'd say it's working pretty well for him. Probably greatly helped him get through this tragedy that you so callously mock him about.
What it should have done is make him realize that christian churches are a tax free scam and of no use at all to intelligent people with free will as opposed to the mindless sheep who can't think for themselves. It's made Rick a rich man.
Wow...no one deserves to lose a child. Not even you.
Thanks for having the guts to say it. The "church" has ruined too many lives as it is.
He said it anonymously behind a keyboard on the internet. That's not guts. Also, while I may agree with his sentiment, it is not guts to say it in such a crass, insulting way–especially after a fellow human being, religious or not, just lost his son. It is cowardice and a cheap shot.
Here doobz. I can't find our thread::
An Oxford University researcher and author specializing in neuroscience has suggested that one day religious fundamentalism may be treated as a curable mental illness. Kathleen Taylor, who describes herself as a "science writer affiliated to the Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics," made the suggestion during a presentation on brain research at the Hay Literary Festival in Wales on Wednesday. In response to a question about the future of neuroscience, Taylor said that "One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated," The Times of London notes.
Liberty Counsel Cultural Affairs Analyst Matt Barber raised the warning that such cases will be seen more and more in America, too. "We know that what's happening in Europe and what's happening in Canada offers us a window into the future of what will happen here in the United States," he said. "The hate crimes laws and employment seexual orientation laws such as ENDA, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act here in the United States, have been the precursor to the more oppressive hate speech laws," Barber explained. "Make no mistake, those laws we have now for hate crimes and the more present danger with ENDA, these laws are the precursor in the U. S. for the same kind of criminalization of Christianity that's happening in the U. K.," Barber said.
– See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/barber-gays-want-imprison-christians#sthash.6Y7zwH8J.dpuf
A sobering Guardian article on March 3, 2003 reports 300,000 mentally ill people to be held in US prisons. The US Bureau of Justice reports that an estimated 16% of the two million prisoners in the US are mentally ill, "often because there is nowhere else for them to go. So serious is the problem that one jail in Los Angeles has become in effect the biggest mental instiitution in the country".
You do the math.
Do you think that "right wing watch" might be a slightly biased source?
You'd do better to reference Dawkins' "Gerin Oil" polemic.
I consider almost any source biased Doc. The fact that it might be biased doesn't mean it isn't accurate. This isn't a scholarly piece. It's a set of sources that substantiate a point. Even if the reporting is false, you should understand that there are people, who most would not consider extremist, who are seeing these same trends.
Do you consider the Times of London or the Guardian biased?
I CAN BELIEVE IN GOD ALWAYS, BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I READ HERE. IF YOU WANT PROOF THERE IS GOD, TRUST ME, I HAVE SEEN AND BEEN PART OF MIRACLES FROM HIM ONLY. AND WHO BUT GOD CAN PROPHESY THOUSAND OF YEARS BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS. READ THE BIBLE THEN READ YOUR/OUR HISTORY BOOKS, =ANCIENT UP TO AND INCLUDING THE PRESENT!!!!
Caps lock off, please.
Old crazy people are funny
This comment is the perfect illustration of why religion should NEVER be used to address mental health issues!
I may not be a computer expert, but I know the bible pretty well, so scroll to dmj and you will see my message back to you
Your reply is irrelevant since many other mentally ill people have also "known the bible".
My mental health doesn't spew hate.
P.S. And my Lord doesn't either. Just remember as you get ready to take your last breath, reach out and Him for forgiveness and see His miracle. I'm serious... Remember
or, most likely, you are experiencing confirmatory bias where you actively seek out what confirms your preconceived beliefs and filter out all competing, and contradictory, observations.
You know that there are NO prophesies that have been fulfilled right?
Wrong. Read another place I sent them. There are more!
Does the tooth fairy talk to you too?
For the attacks against Christianity the Anti-Christian can point out anywhere in the scripture where Christ says go kill his name. Instead the Anti-Christian points to followers real and fake followers as the real Christ, however it is like saying the moon does not shine so bright so the sun most be sun must be like that as well even though the moon only reflects a part of the light from the sun as it is with a Christian only reflects Christ and is not Christ himself. Some reflect Christ better than others while others reflect Christ hardly at all.
The egomaniacal blood-thirsty tyrant of the OT condoned, in fact, ordered genocide, mass murder and killing. The son reflects this. In fact, given the christard mental gymnastics, the son is the father but in reality they are three. Or one.
Who cares what this POS has to say or thinks about any subject?
People who comment on articles about him.
Evidently you? You clicked on the story and bothered to post a comment. Just sayin'......
Evangelicals are no better than the Al Quaeda. They would practice the same techniques of justice if they could get away with it. Fortunately in America, they cannot.
Agreed! They are as intolerant and as guilt-giving – and, frankly rarely really forgiving – despite their claims.
"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics."
– Robert Heinlein
Are you talking about hom0oseexuals again Doc?
Since when has s3xual orientation been a sect, cult or religion or have those of a different s3xual orientation done any of the things in the above quote? How many Hail Marys are you going to do as penance for bearing false witness?
A sect is a subgroup of a religious, political or philosophical belief system, usually an offshoot of a larger group. Although in past it was mostly used to refer to religious groups, it has since expanded and in modern culture can refer to any organization that breaks away from a larger one to follow a different set of rules and principles.
OK, you got me on a technicality. Now, what about the more substantive actions? Seems to me, over several centuries, religion has done all and the LGBT has done none. Go ahead, educate us on how evil the LGBT "sect" is. Authoritative and credible references, hopefully better than what believers provide as evidence for the existence for their god(s), would be greatly appreciated.
I'm only saying that Doc's statement is accurate. All groups are capable of extremism in support of their ideology. You and he act as if only groups you oppose would stoop to such methods. But the truth is, as Heinlein points out, any group will ultimately use any tactic that elevates it over it's opponent.
Please explain how "Are you talking about hom0oseexuals again Doc?" equates to "I'm only saying that Doc's statement is accurate." Wouldn't it have been simpler and more honest to say "I agree."? But no, you just had to cast aspersions on your favorite whipping boy. Is this part of your overall goal to deflect attention away from the RCC's continued protection of pedophile priests and those covering up criminal activity within the RCC?
I take silence as an admission of guilt, Billy D.
When you make such ludicrous statements, it's very difficult for adults to take you seriously. Regardless of how you feel about evangelicals, do you sincerely believe that they are "no better than the Al Quaeda"? So you think that evangelicals would form a terrorist organization trying to kill those who disagree with them, "if they could get away with it"? So why don't you think they "could get away with it"? No guns or bombs? If you're going to claim that your statement is sensible, I don't care to communicate with you further.
I do believe they would kill. They cannot get away with it because, as of now, the government is not overrun with religious kooks. If that ever happens, looking at you all you Rick Santorum lovers, watch out for the evangelical death squads.
OK, since when have al Quaeda and other religious terrorist groups been restrained by the possibility of not being able to "get away with it"? I seem to recall that suicide attacks are what they're really into. So you're claiming that evangelical Christian terrorist organizations would be out there going on suicide missions, committing mass shootings against "infidels" and strapping suicide bombs to themselves, if only they could "get away with it"? That's nonsensical. Keep talking, you just make those who are enemies of Christianity look more and more ridiculous.
Nonsensical? That is what people said prior to Al Qaeda coming on the scene.
No it isn't
You're a mental case...get back in your bunker.
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