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The quotable Pope: 11 most surprising sayings
September 19th, 2013
11:01 AM ET

Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

By Eric Marrapodi and Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editors

(CNN) - Pope Francis said the church has the right to express its opinions but not to "interfere spiritually" in the lives of gays and lesbians, expanding on explosive comments he made in July about not judging homosexuals.

In a wide-ranging interview published Thursday, the pope also said that women must play a key role in church decisions and brushed off critics who say he should be more vocal about fighting abortion and gay marriage.

Moreover, if the church fails to find a "new balance" between its spiritual and political missions, the pope warned, its moral foundation will "fall like a house of cards."

The interview, released by Jesuit magazines in several different languages and 16 countries on Thursday, offers perhaps the most expansive and in-depth view of Francis' vision for the Roman Catholic Church.

The pope's comments don't break with Catholic doctrine or policy, but instead show a shift in approach, moving from censure to engagement.

Elected in March with the expectation that he would try to reform the Vatican, an institution that many observers say is riven by corruption and turf wars, Francis said his first mission is to change the church's "attitude."

"The church has sometimes locked itself up in small things," the pope said, "in small-minded rules."

"The people of God want pastors," Francis continued, "not clergy acting like bureaucrats or government officials."

MORE ON CNN: New interview shows why the pope is so beloved 

The interview was conducted by the Rev. Antonio Spadaro, editor of La Civilta Cattolica, a Jesuit journal based in Rome, over three meetings this August at Francis' apartment in Rome.

The pope approved the transcript in Italian, according to America magazine, a Jesuit journal based in New York that initiated the interview and supervised its translation into English.

Advance copies of the interview were provided to several news organizations, including CNN.

Jesuits from around the world submitted questions to Spadaro. Francis answered them with the frankness that has become a hallmark of his young papacy.

To begin the interview, Spadoro bluntly asks, "Who is Jorge Mario Bergolio?" - Francis's name before he was elected pope.

"I am a sinner," the pope answers. "This is the most accurate definition. It is not a figure of speech, a literary genre. I am a sinner.”

The pope didn't mention any particular sins, and Catholic theology holds that all humans are sinners, a consequence of Adam and Eve's original transgression. Still, a pope describing himself foremost as "sinner" is striking.

MORE ON CNN: The pope said what? Six stunners from Francis

Offering new glimpses of his personal life, Francis said he prays at the dentist's office and felt trapped in the Vatican's traditional papal apartments. (He moved to a smaller one in a nearby building.) He has a taste for tragic artists and Italian films and keeps the will of his beloved grandmother in his prayerbook.

But it was the pope's vision for the church's future  - painted in broad strokes - that's sure to rile or inspire Catholics, depending on which side of the church they sit.

Here are some highlights:

On Women

In July, Francis said, emphatically, that the "door is closed," on women's ordination, a statement that disappointed many Catholic liberals.

But that doesn't mean the church should consider women secondary or inferior, Francis said. "The feminine genius is needed wherever we make important decisions," he told Spadora.

Francis also called on Catholics to think hard about the function of women in the church.

"Women are asking deep questions that must be addressed," the pope said. "The church cannot be herself without the woman and her role."

On Homosexuality 

When Francis was a bishop in Buenos Aires, Argentina, he received letters from gays and lesbians who said they were "socially wounded" by the church, he said.

"But the church does not want to do this," Francis said in the interview.

The pope then recalled his comments in July, when he told the media aboard a flight to Rome, "Who am I to judge" gay people?

MORE ON CNN: Pope Francis on gays: 'Who am I to judge?'

"By saying this, I said what the catechism says," the pope told Spadaro. The catechism, the Catholic Church's book of official doctrine, condemns homosexual acts, but says gays and lesbians "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."

"Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person."

Francis said that someone once asked him if he "approved" of homosexuality.

"I replied with another question," he said. "`Tell me, when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being."

Abortion, gay marriage and contraception 

Some American Catholics grumble that Francis has been largely silent on signature Catholic political issues.

"I’m a little bit disappointed in Pope Francis that he hasn’t, at least that I’m aware of, said much about unborn children, about abortion, and many people have noticed that," Bishop Thomas Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, said earlier this month.

Francis said that he's aware of the criticism, but he is not going to change.

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods," he told his Jesuit interviewer. "I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that."

But the pope said the church's teachings on those issue are clear, and he clearly believes in those teachings, so what else is there to say?

"It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time," Francis said.

False prophets and quick decisions

Only false prophets claim to have all the answers, Francis said.

"The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt," he said. "You must leave room for the Lord."

But church leaders, including himself, haven't always practiced humility, the pope admitted.

Many of the bad decisions he made while leading Catholics in Argentina came about because of  his "authoritarianism and quick manner of making decisions," the pope said.

That won't happen again, Francis said, as he begins to steer the church in a new direction.

He didn't offer an exact course, but he said change will come. Sooner or later.

"Many think that changes and reforms can take place in a short time," he said. "I believe that we always need time to lay the foundations for real, effective change. And this is the time of discernment."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Christianity • Church • Culture wars • Gay rights • Pope Francis • Vatican

soundoff (3,625 Responses)
  1. Arnold

    Catholic charities are among the best in the world.

    September 20, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Yes, they make a lot of money for the catholic church.

      September 20, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
  2. Bill Deacon

    Thad, thanks for protecting me honey. Love ya!

    September 20, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Thad

      Love you too sweety.

      September 20, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
      • niknak

        Always thought there was a huge ho mo se xual component to all this myth stuff.
        Jeebus did only hang around with dudes.

        September 20, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          "23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. 25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?" John 13:23-25

          September 20, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
  3. Apple Bush

    To all of you who can't wait to die and meet your maker, fuck off. The rest of us love life.

    If you don't understand what I mean by fuck off, I mean go away, get lost, fade into the woodwork, get a life, move on, we don't want to see you or hear you. enough. thank you.

    September 20, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Topher

      Yikes! Who wants to die? Not me.

      September 20, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
      • niknak

        But if you don't die Gopher, then you can't go to heaven and be with all your relatives and friends.
        Grandma has some apple pie just waiting for you, and Sport is there with a ball so you two can play fetch again.
        You can go shootin' with your cousin Goober, and have bbqs with what you kill.
        I hear they will even have NASCAR in heaven. Why wouldn't they?
        Man, heaven will sure be fun, for you.

        So hurry up and die, so you can really live it up.

        September 20, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
        • Topher

          niknak

          "But if you don't die Gopher, then you can't go to heaven and be with all your relatives and friends."

          I'd much prefer for the Rapture to happen in my lifetime. Then I don't have to die. Death is unnatural. And once Christ returns there will be no more death, suffering, disease or tears. Amen!

          September 20, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
        • niknak

          Man Gopher, the religious scammers have a live one in you.

          You are beyond delusional if you are still clinging to that whole rapture bull.
          It is never going to happen.

          Remember this on your death bed, as your last thoughts will be just that, the last for you.
          Sorry to bring the reality, but you will die, like the trillions of other things that have lived, and died, and you will be forgotten just like they all were.

          You are not special bro, and your family and friends will forget about you way faster then you think.

          September 20, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
        • Topher

          niknak

          "Man Gopher, the religious scammers have a live one in you."

          No, not religious scammers. But God.

          "You are beyond delusional if you are still clinging to that whole rapture bull. It is never going to happen."

          God has promised it will happen. And I have faith.

          "Remember this on your death bed, as your last thoughts will be just that, the last for you."

          No.

          "Sorry to bring the reality, but you will die, like the trillions of other things that have lived, and died, and you will be forgotten just like they all were."

          Now these things I agree with. I will die (unless Christ returns first.) We will all die, just as the Bible says. And yes, people will move on without me.

          "You are not special bro, and your family and friends will forget about you way faster then you think."

          Completely agree. There is nothing special about me.

          September 20, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
        • Proud to be catholic

          I am so sorry you feel that way but there is still time to change you mind it is not to late until you die

          September 20, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
        • Topher

          How would that benefit me?

          September 20, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      It's not often one gets to see, in public, a chemically addicted person or alcoholic traverse the stages from active addcition, remission of active behavior while the disease progresses into perverse behavior, culminating in a confrontation with peers and others resulting in lashing out. Usually shows up as a precursor to active substance abuse relapse.

      September 20, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Sired Bill D....

        There is no chemical addiction in the medicinal usages of low dose THC and high doses of CBD... Science is proving that even regulated amounts of both types of scrutinized Cannabis's Cannabinoids are of beneficial use for many sicknesses and common ailments to even many diseases... Have you Bill forgotten the times here in the USA when Cannabis ointments and creams and tinctures were common prescriptions by our nations doctors..?

        September 20, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
      • doobzz

        Lol, we see it several times a day, whenever you post, Boof Deacon.

        September 21, 2013 at 12:50 am |
    • Mike

      If your posts are any indication of how you 'enjoy' life, then either the word 'enjoy' lost its meaning, or life itself is meaningless.

      September 20, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
      • niknak

        Yeah, life is so meaningful for you believers.

        September 20, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
        • Topher

          What ridiculousness!

          September 20, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
        • Fake Bill Deacon

          Topher, good news. I found the gods today!

          September 20, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
        • Topher

          I doubt that very much, Fake Bill Deacon. For one, there aren't more than one God.

          September 20, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Father Cutie

      If your posts are any indication of how much you 'luvvv' life, then either the word 'love' lost its meaning, or life itself is meaningless!

      September 20, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Truth sets u free

      Apple bush- what would Jesus say to the type of vocabulary your using??... Yikes!!

      September 20, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
      • niknak

        Jesus would not say anything as he is dead, if he even existed in the first place, which I doubt.

        September 20, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Jesus Loves You

      Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.

      All of us are going to die and to some, death may come earlier whether you like it or not.
      Sin separates us from God and sickness and diseases are all consequences of sin. Sin results to death, much worse spiritual death, eternal separation with God forever and ever. That is why out of God's abundance of Love, He gave His Son to redeem back humans to Him and to die for our sins in our behalf. Jesus is coming soon to restore back things. Please if Jesus today is knocking to your heart, open your heart. If your are in doubt, I challenge that in a span of two weeks, pray or talk to God for at least 10 minutes, tell Him you doubt Him, challenge Him to reveal to you who He is. I believe God will remove the scale on your eyes and will appreciate the wonders of His creations.

      I wonder you believe a painting was created by someone and you would not think about it but the complexity of the universe, it is expanding, it is moving, the galaxies are also moving and expanding, the same way with the solar system. Who made all of these so perfect, those are much more complex than an artwork? The DNA in all living things who Wrote that Genetic Code or Program that is much more complex than a computer program. How many gigantic supercomputers are being used just to decode the genome. You believe that CNN.com was created by someone or some group of people but how come you deny the Architect of much more complex things.

      Act now, while there is time before the Creator take your life that you don't even own. He just loaned it to you. Do not let the hour pass by not to heed God's voice. I prayed for you today and for everybody here who have no relationship with Jesus. I was weeping as God imparted to me a small portion of His love (it could be just 0.000000000001 of His Love but I couldn't contain it and He gave a glimpse how deep and high and long and wide was Jesus' love when He said. "Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing?" God loves all of you . This is my last comment to this article but please heed to His voice and to some of you it could be your last warning.

      September 20, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Sired JLY...

        Your wrote, "Sin separates us from God and sickness and diseases are all consequences of sin."

        The Holy oligarchy of one's peers has people of your bewildering measurable stature becoming undignified and plainly being as dummies when it comes to understanding a body's abilities to fend off many sicknesses and illnesses and even diseases... Cancer is not an anyone-in-particular disease and there has been much promise in treating many cancers with Cannabis Oils... Diseases are not "sin based" but rather they are a product of unstable cells going astray and multiplying greatly upsetting the body's Immune System capabilities...

        Our own body's Endocannabinoid Systems are an integral part of the body's Immune System... The Cannabis Plants percentiles of THC and/or CBD molecules need to be understood in that there are many illnesses and sicknesses and diseases that can be made controllable and even curable while many other chemically altered pharmacologically patented molecules cannot even close in on...

        September 20, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
  4. Bill Deacon

    Hemp is a sinner against God and should not be legal!

    September 20, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      Genesis 1:12

      September 20, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
      • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Alliance)

        21:12

        September 20, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Amen....

      September 20, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Thad

      You're not funny, Apple. If fact, you're an ignorant troll.

      September 20, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
      • Bill Deacon

        .. Amen

        September 20, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
        • niknak

          You are such a putz.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
      • Fake Bill Deacon

        niknak, you have no idea.

        September 20, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      Genesis 1:29-3

      September 20, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • Lionly Lamb

      Hemp is but a seed bearing herb and is given to be of a nutritious food source firstly and medicinal usages secondly and lastly the Cannabis strains are used to relieve anyone's emotional disparagements thru either ingesting the flowering buds or smoking it... Our ongoing scientific understandings regarding psychoactive cannabis and its THC and CBD molecules are just now becoming ever more known for its many medicinal usages which were known of thousands of years ago... Even within the USA the medicinal usages of Cannabis were legal until Harry Anslinger, our nation's first drug Czar Prohibitionist started the war on drugs with Cannabis being the first target...

      September 20, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
      • niknak

        That was a very lucid and well reasoned response you had there Cowardly Lion.

        I believe that is the second time I have agreed with you while here on the board.

        Way to go!

        September 20, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • niknak

      4:20

      September 20, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        "20 The people of Judah and Israel were as numerous as the sand on the seashore; they ate, they drank and they were happy." 1 Kings 4:20

        September 20, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        "20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth" Daniel 4:20

        September 20, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
        • niknak

          I was just being witty, but I fact the babble supports weed!

          But then again, the babble can be messaged to support or argue against ANYTHING you want it to.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
  5. Apple Bush

    People who dress in ridiculous costumes are trying to draw your attention away from something.

    See: All Catholic priests

    September 20, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
  6. Sam Yaza

    nice a Heretic Pope i love heretic Christians, they should stop following the book all together.

    September 20, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      What is the heresy?

      September 20, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Christians might be tolerable without the book.

      September 20, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
  7. Lionly Lamb

    THE HEMP SOLUTION

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RL0yc-ynww&w=640&h=390]

    September 20, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
  8. Meatwad

    If the rapture comes, I will just talk to Jesus and say I am sorry.

    September 20, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Topher

      Meatwad

      "If the rapture comes, I will just talk to Jesus and say I am sorry."

      A few problems with that. One, only the Christians will be raptured. Two, you had better hope you survive the Tribulation and then Great Tribulation.

      September 20, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
      • Meatwad

        Well, maybe Carl will get raptured and I can swim in his pool then. But I don't see that happening.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
      • Just the Facts Ma'am...

        What about the Really Great Tribulation? And the Really Really Great Tribulation?

        There is no rapture, and the only tribulations you will have to endure are either naturemade, manmade or selfmade.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
      • Honey Badger Don't Care

        What about the Great, Great Grand Tribulation on my mothers side?

        September 20, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
      • Meatwad

        Why does Jesus hate me? Now I am sad.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
  9. Dyslexic doG

    Vatican back room conversation: "so what if the bible says different, this anti-gay thing is affecting our membership and cash flow ... we have to change it".

    September 20, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • OKfine

      D..doG, The Vatican back room is where the Vatican gay lobby congregate, they have skin in the game, so to speak, so they ordered Francis to butt out,

      September 20, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
  10. palintwit

    Remember those five seconds back in August of 2008, when fresh new face Sarah Palin was going to save John McCain’s flailing presidential run and revive the Republican Party with her legs and her winking and her lipstick? But then a funny thing happened on the way to the White House — she opened her mouth !

    September 20, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
  11. Lionly Lamb

    Hemp is a low grade no buzz to be had plant or weed that can be grown virtually anywhere on the globe and its uses are many... Hemp stalks can be used by textile industries for a wide array of fabrics... These stalks can also be used to reinforce plastic auto body parts ranging from dashboards to seats to fenders... The Hemp resins from crushing the Hemp seeds may one day replace the toxic carcinogen ingredients of crude oil made resins... The crushed Hemp seeds can themselves be used as a very nutritious livestock feeding source raising the bar of nutritious meats for our consumption needs...

    September 20, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • Just the Facts Ma'am...

      I have to admit, I like the pro-pot Lion a lot better than the verbal diarhea Lamb... maybe you should change your name to Snoop Lionly Lamb...

      September 20, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
      • Lionly Lamb

        Sired Ma'am...

        I keep on trying to come to terms with reasonableness. It serves no purpose to chant or rant about God other than to raise Caine...

        September 20, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      LL, does Hemp believe in God?

      September 20, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
      • Thad

        Does a coleus or an ivy believe in God, BD? Help is a plant. Keep up.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          For thousands and thousands of patients "Help is a plant."

          September 20, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
        • Thad

          Good catch that didn't show up in spell check. Of course I meant hemp.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      My mother-in-law was complaining about having to order her nutritional supplements from Canada until I showed her she was sprinkling crushed hemp seeds on her oatmeal.

      BTW – I prefer Snoop Lamb.

      September 20, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
  12. Portland tony

    While not a catholic, this man's concept of Christiananity makes more sense to me than all the "so-called" religious leaders who preach "My (God's) way or the highway"!

    September 20, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
  13. Alien Orifice

    Wouldn't it be great if we agreed as a nation to take all things we DON'T understand, dumped them in a bucket and called it "God".

    September 20, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
  14. Alien Orifice

    Wouldn't it be fun if EVERYONE switched names? For real?

    September 20, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
  15. Truth sets u free

    The Catholic Church thinks it has more authority then the bible...all for the sake of riches! Thank God were in the 21st century of else the pope would've decapitated me for saying this!!

    September 20, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • O prah!!

      Okay, everyone look under their chairs... that's right! You don't have any authority and you don't have any authority and you don't have any authority! That's right folks! No religions has any authority over you!! No bible has any authority! No Koran has any authority! No Church has any authority over you! No God has any authority over you! No Devil has any authority over you! You are yourself and responsible for your own actions and have authority over those actions!

      September 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
      • Truth sets u free

        Any persons authority is what they want it to be... I'm talking about the authority over Christian... Every Christian authority should be they bible...but the majority of them don't see it that way, therefore they should not be considered as Christians!

        September 20, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          I would prefer you look inward for moral authority – following the authority of the bible might get you thrown in jail for child abuse, hate crimes against women and gays, or beating your slaves.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
      • kokomo bedford

        Well said ms. Winfrey!!

        September 20, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
  16. Apple Bush

    I do owe Bill D an apology, he was very nice to me when I needed some encouragement.

    September 20, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I accept your apology and give you permission to rip on me all you want.

      September 20, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Yes!! Thanks Bill.

        September 20, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          Apple, you rock this bitch like a motherfucker man! Whoo!

          September 20, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
  17. Apple Bush

    I enjoy getting Bill Deacon off on some unimportant silly little tangent that I can check in on from time to time while simultaneously having good conversations on the Blog elsewhere. I am just being honest.

    September 20, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • OKfine

      Every thought BD has you can find or relate to the catechism his poor tortured self could not live without the crutch of the church. A fallen sinner of the worst kind.

      September 20, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      My only sadness is that I reached out to Apple when his wife left him for another man and he was spending his days drinking and in depression. I suppose if identiiy theft of my screen name gives him solace it will have to suffice until he hits bottom and finds his way to AA.

      September 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
      • Bill Deacon

        Sorry Bill, I forgot all about that. I have just been teasing you. I am a hard teaser, always have been. Really nothing personal. But seriously, the HS stuff you don't get.

        I stayed with my wife AND have been sober for 8 months!

        September 20, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Sorry, obviously that was me.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Bill the other kids won't like me if I am your friend so just pretend ok?

        September 20, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
      • Mike

        Atheists have no originality they are constantly using 'handles' used by Christians. Shame on those atheists!

        September 20, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
      • OKfine

        I thought your main sadness was the abortion that you let happen and did not oppose that weighed so heavily on your conscience? Why would you be sad about a stranger rejecting your help, happens all the time, or were you proselytizing while offering help, the RCC thing to do? Help with a string attached as always.

        September 20, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
      • OKfine

        Interesting, BD, that you would not find your comment about AB hitting bottom and seeking out AA as an attack on him. So you won't probably mind my saying that when the abortion thingy that made you hit bottom and escape into the catechism and dogma of the RCC. A crutch for everyone, just believe.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Oh, there was no AA for me.

        BTW, I did not quit drinking for my marriage. I quit for my health. I was a very happy drunk.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
        • OKfine

          Yes AB, I understood that but BD was stating that when you do hit bottom that you seek out AA, not that I think you will. BD is heavy on needing a crutch in his life thus his unqualified support for the RCC no matter what crimes are committed and covered up.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          I never hit rock bottom. But I QUIT drinking 8 months ago. Not a drop. No AA. I quit because I wanted too.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Oh by the way, it SUCKS not drinking. I don't recommend it, but now I am committed.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
  18. Bill

    I think both the atheists and religious individuals on this blog should stop the name hijacking! Whos with me?!!!!

    September 20, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      ...Amen. .

      September 20, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      I know I am!

      September 20, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • midwest rail

      me too!

      September 20, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Me too!

      September 20, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Not me.

      September 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
      • Bill

        Why not? Don't you want civility?

        September 20, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
        • OKfine

          Civility BD, you are a pompous arrogant preacher that decries Ad hominem attacks on yourself while putting down others in a more subtle way that equals the same conduct, hypocrite.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Because, see below...It keeps the blog in check, self policed like ice hockey!

          September 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
        • OKfine

          Meant for the Deacon, sorry Bill got names mixed up.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
        • Bill

          I am not Bill Deacon.

          However, I have seen him on this blog a lot and never got that impression of him.

          Let’s all be kind.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
        • OKfine

          Bill our BD often tells people they are not intelligent enough or well informed enough to continue in his august presence, he did so today, pompous and arrogant, though you might not agree.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Count me in!

      September 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Count me out!

      September 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Sounds like a great idea!

      September 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      It is only ok for me if it is Bill Deacon. Fake HeavenSent is understood by most and is not a hijacked name. Something different entirely. Additionally, the reall HS and CS have a history. If you don't understand that, than you have no idea why sometimes name hijacking is not only a good thing, but important. It keeps the blog in check, self policed like ice hockey.

      September 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        So to finish my thought I guess, the real Apple Bush IS in favor of name hijacking if it benefits the blog. Only under certain conditions with responsible bloggers.

        September 20, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          I can't disagree.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
        • Bill Deacon

          Neither can I. You got me there.

          September 20, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • Everyone else on this blog

      I'm totally in!

      September 20, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
  19. Honey Badger Don't Care

    It is amazing how these xtians can legitimize away all of the problems with the bible and their religion. Compartmentalization of the mind is a terrible thing.

    September 20, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Mitt Mattingly

      Interestingly, far from trying to legitimize the problems in the Catholic Church, Pope Francis has named them and is working to change them. He sounds like just the sort of leader you think is needed. And I agree.

      September 20, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
      • Honey Badger Don't Care

        Named what? He's given a non-answer to every question put to him.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • niknak

      How else could anyone even cope in life being a believer if one did not have the ability to sluff off the bad parts or the impossible parts of whatever book of myth they belong to?
      Think about some of the complete garbage that is in the babble;

      People being swallowed by fish, living inside the fish, then being spit out alive.
      Talking snakes.
      Every animal somehow getting on some ridiculous boat for some mythical flood.
      Burning talking bushes.
      The earth being only 6k years old.

      I spent some time in the middle east, and the muslims have an unwritten rule that allah can't see into the walls of their houses, so that relieves them of following all that bull they have to endure for their stupid myth.

      Face it believers, you have all bought into a great big lie.
      And the more science discovers, the more you will have to make vast leaps in your beliefs to cover up the lie.

      September 20, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
      • Red

        Oh, I get it, just because YOU can't fathom these things from happening, means they didn't happen right? The arrogance of some people. What you don't realize is that the events that you deny happened, are soooo easy for God to accomplish. He makes planets, what makes you think inspiring a simple man is so difficult. Wake up. You're not the master. Just another glob of clay.

        September 20, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          Yes yes, we have all heard the "God can do anything" excuse when believers are faced with actual evidence that refutes their position. The geological record clearly shows there has been no global flood in at least the last 150,000 years. Our DNA has been traced back at leastr 338,000 years and shows we did not decsend from a single pair of pre-made humans. Our DNA also shows humans interbred with neanderthals and nearly all human DNA contains between 1% and 4% neanderthal DNA. The real trick your God would have had to pull off is doing everything in Genesis as most Christians claim and then leave false evidence in the form of fossils, geological record and our DNA. If this is the case, why would your God actively try to fool people and then say "No, trust me because your eyes will decieve you..." which feels more like a pervert proctologist telling you that's just his finger when he has both hands on your shoulders...

          September 20, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Wow, you're sick. Can you use analogies with a little more decor please? Incidentally, all of your "issues" are resolved in the fact that when God created the universe, He created it "mature." Otherwise nothing created could survive. And neanderthal man? All that was different about him was that he was a little stockier... That basically describes my father in law.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          Who were those people that Cain was afraid would kill him? Where did Cain's wife from the land of Nod come from? Neanderthal?

          September 20, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Robert, Cain married his sister. And all those people were family.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          "Made it mature" lol. What a childish comeback to actual science. "Well that light that goes only light speed must have been placed there in transit from millions of light years away, and God faked the fossils and the geological record, yeah, thats it!"

          Oh, and also, we have decoded neanderthal DNA and they were a separate species or subspecies of the same genus Ho mo neanderthalensis. They are not just bulky ho mosapians as the religious morons would have you believe.

          And as for my a n a l ogies, I felt it was quite appropriate considering how Christianity has been bending the uneducated masses over their pew's metaphorically and physically for centuries, taking advantage of the poor, the depressed and the easily manipulated.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "Made it mature" lol. What a childish comeback to actual science.
          Well, I didn't consider it a comeback, merely a biblical response since that is what was asked.

          and God faked the fossils and the geological record, yeah, thats it!"
          I never said that God faked fossils. Here's a great definition of fossils – dead stuff. And the flood is a fantastic answer to where fossils came from, where did oil come from, etc...

          Oh, and also, we have decoded neanderthal DNA and they were a separate species or subspecies of the same genus Ho mo neanderthalensis. They are not just bulky ho mosapians as the religious morons would have you believe.
          I wasn't quoting religious morons, I was quoting scientific papers.

          And as for my a n a l ogies, I felt it was quite appropriate considering how Christianity has been bending the uneducated masses over their pew's metaphorically and physically for centuries, taking advantage of the poor, the depressed and the easily manipulated.
          I understand that people do bad things, but to judge an idea based purely on the actions of its people isn't right. (that's stereotyping and bigotry actually, so be tolerant) Look into what the Bible says, and judge it based on itself.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Man is the predilect object of Creation and the entire Universe exists as it does simply to have us in it.

          The Universe only appears to be billions of years old because The Creator willed it thus.

          God is anthropocentric – it says here right on the label.

          The rest of the universe, oh so simple and boring compared to humanity, is simply window dressing – God really concentrated when making The Earth as opposed to, say – the Andromeda galaxy.

          You see, when God was creating the Earth he placed it in a time dilation bubble in order to give it the attention it needed.

          This is how we see light from distant galaxies – they are, relativistically speaking, billions of years old – but thanks to God's chronoton singularity, we are only a few thousand years old.

          God bestowed certain seemingly normal objects with chronoton field generation capability, like Moses' staff and Noah's ark.

          How else did the seas part or the ark able to support two of every animal despite it's physical dimensions?

          In recent studies, credible theologians have revealed that the physical dimensions of Noah's Ark were actually much, much smaller than those depicted in the Bible. They theorize that the source texts were modified to be more believable as nobody would be able to imagine all life on Earth fitting into a box no bigger than a phone booth.

          The oral histories of a small, reclusive sect of ultra-orthodox Jews say that the Ark made a "Vworrrp Vworrrrp" sound before it gradually faded from sight. Stone tablets retrieved from this same sect show that the name "Noah" is actually an ancient Hebrew word from a long lost dialect that translates to "Healer".

          They also found evidence that Moses' staff was really a small, hand held device about the size of a pen that emitted a high pitched squeal and glowing green light. "Staff" also appears to be a mistranslation. The original word was "screwdriver".

          Leviticus is full of rules of conduct for the Hebrew people, but there was one particular passage that caused so much confusion and strife at the Nicene Council that they elected to omit it from the Bible.

          Scraps of that ancient text were found in the same cave as the Dead Sea Scrolls but have yet to be publically released. The text seems to be proclamations from a long forgotten prophet, but there is little context to make any sense of them.

          Thus far, scholars have translated: "run", "don't blink", and a thoroughly confusing psalm praising the virtues of decorative neckwear.

          September 20, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
        • Joey

          Lawrence I judge you by your beliefs, and you believe some really dumb stuff, and are therefore most likely really dumb.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
        • niknak

          You are so lost Larry of Aruba.
          Yet you go an avail yourself on what science has given us to make your life so easy and healthy, but when it contradicts your stupid book of magic spells, it is wrong.
          You have ZERO proof that there was a creator, much less that it was a "mature" creation that was created.
          That is just more babble from the babble, which the vast majority of the planet does NOT expect as fact.

          A mind is a terrible thing to lose, to religion........

          September 20, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
        • niknak

          Larry of Aruba wrote,
          Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

          Hey Larry, phuck god.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          "the flood is a fantastic answer to where fossils came from, where did oil come from, etc..." no, it's not. The flood theory has been debunked as geologists have actual ice core and sea floor cores that prove no global flood occured as the bible claims.

          "And neanderthal man? All that was different about him was that he was a little stockier" "I wasn't quoting religious morons, I was quoting scientific papers." Really? That is what the "scientific papers" you read say about neanderthals? That they were a bit stockier? Wow, that brings a whole new level of moron into the debate.

          "people do bad things, but to judge an idea based purely on the actions of its people isn't right." "Look into what the Bible says, and judge it based on itself." Yes, I have read the bible many times, cover to cover, Hebrew and Greek and I am judging the bible based on what it says in comparison to what we have actually found to be true with repeatable, testable science. The bible simply falls far to short of anything that can be taken seriously and should be looked at for what it is, a great book of historical fiction, much like the heiroglyphs found in Egypt and the ancient Sumarian tablets and many other works of historical fiction that took names and places and intertwined them with the mythologies that were prevelant during those times. So the conclusion of the matter is that not only is there no actual evidence of your desert God but the claims made by the supposedly divinely inspired biblical authors have been proven false, thus invalidating any divinity since a truly divinely inspired work would contain nothing but truth, and the bible is far fr far from that. Oh, and just so you don't think i'm picking just on the bible, the Koran comes up way short as well...

          September 20, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
        • Just the Facts Ma'am...

          So what I gather from Doc's post, the Tardis was actually Noahs ark and it makes sense since that would in fact be the only way to fit all the species that would have had to be saved from a global flood for all the current species to exist... that or maybe a big bag of holding from someones D & D game...

          September 20, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          Lawrence is not just ignorant – he's sofa king ignorant.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
        • niknak

          Bag of Holding and Tardis in the same sentence!
          Love it!
          I was a huge D and D kid AND watched Doc Who religiously (and Monty P).
          In fact, I was just going thru some old boxes last month and came across my monster manual and a box of figs.
          Man was I a bad artist!

          I am not into video games, but I hear World of Warcraft is more addicting then crack, so good I don't game.
          I was pretty addicted to D n D, so better stay off that.

          But yeah Bush, the believers can make up some pretty strange stuff to cover the huge holes in their various myths.
          Sad part is, they don't know they are making stuff up, they actually believe it, unlike us D and Ders who never once thought that stuff was real.

          September 20, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.